Author Topic: NOW OPEN SOURCE!!! swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]  (Read 3047246 times)

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Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #550 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 19:57:23 »
Looks like you used the default holes when you created your plate? If so, those gaps on the sides are for switch opening. :)

And alps compatible iirc.
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Offline phishy

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #551 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 20:00:25 »
Alright awesome.  So it looks like everything is good to go so far.  I'm going to order the rest of the stuff for my build and hunt down some keycaps tonight.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #552 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 20:03:50 »
Looks like you used the default holes when you created your plate? If so, those gaps on the sides are for switch opening. :)

And alps compatible iirc.
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Offline p3lim

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #553 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 20:09:30 »
If you want to secure them better, use hot glue on the corners from the back side. I will be doing the same to my plate's spacebar (because the cutout is much larger to fit any kind of keycap, http://i.imgur.com/MEGGLNs.png).

Unless of course you've got a PCB, then it's irrelevant.

Offline phishy

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #554 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 20:12:36 »
If you want to secure them better, use hot glue on the corners from the back side. I will be doing the same to my plate's spacebar (because the cutout is much larger to fit any kind of keycap, http://i.imgur.com/MEGGLNs.png).

Unless of course you've got a PCB, then it's irrelevant.

Alright noted thanks for the heads up.  I'm hand wiring this one, as tackling this much is already quite overwhelming I don't think I'm ready for designing PCBs yet haha.

Offline BigBlueSaw

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #555 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 20:35:41 »
The corner nubs are a little off due to the waterjet cutting program. Thus, the horizontal play in the switches.

We'll work on getting that perfect, but after discussing with swill and phishy on the phone today, it's good enough for regular use. You have to use a bit of force to get them to slide horizontally, so I don' t think this is a big problem.

Alps switches don't work right yet, though, for some reason. That's something else we'll have to work on.

Offline phishy

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #556 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 21:09:53 »
The corner nubs are a little off due to the waterjet cutting program. Thus, the horizontal play in the switches.

We'll work on getting that perfect, but after discussing with swill and phishy on the phone today, it's good enough for regular use. You have to use a bit of force to get them to slide horizontally, so I don' t think this is a big problem.

Alps switches don't work right yet, though, for some reason. That's something else we'll have to work on.

Thanks again for putting so much time into this for us man.  Once I get this one build I'm going to do a run of a different style plate.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #557 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 21:13:24 »
Alright so the plate is cut and he sent me a video earlier.  The cutouts fit perfect top and bottom, but are loose side to side.  I dont think this could be a kerf issue due to the fact that it's a pretty large gap so I'm curious if it has to do with the actual size of the cutout just being off?  Aside from that the plate looks good, he shipped it out to me today.  Even though there is room on either side of the switch, it fits snug and it takes quite a but of force for him to push it from side to side.  Ignore the fact that the stab bar is upside down, I doubt he's had a mech spacebar off before so A+ for effort.

I spent an hour or so on the phone with BBS today discussing and measuring this. The dimensions of the cutout is correct. The actual cutout is slightly smaller than the drawing. I think it is 13.88mm instead of 14mm and the width of the alps cutout sides was slightly smaller as well. I think the main reason for the movement is the nubs in the corners are not quite as square as we are shooting for and the MX switches are also not square (there is less material in those corners of the switch). BBS is going to work on getting those corners more square in the water jet processing.

As for alps support, we are not quite there. The switches clip in, but I think they are too tight because the switch will depress, but it does not rebound correctly. It may be because the cutout ended up being a touch smaller than drawn, but if others know why this can happen it would be helpful for us to understand. 

Let us know if you have questions or suggestions.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #558 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 22:16:04 »
This has nothing to do with the kerf.

I HIGHLY suggest that if you plan on hand wiring the switches in your plate, that you use the first, simple square hole design. And decide which stabilizers you will use, Costar or Cherry, and pick one or the other for your drawing. Trying to combine things like MX and Alps holes on a plate with a PCB is no big deal, but for hand wiring you want the MOST stability possible. And that is done with my suggestions above. :)
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #559 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 22:37:46 »
Functionality Update...

So this may not seem like a huge update because it is only one feature, but I had to refactor a lot of code to add this functionality, so it feels like a big feature to me.  :)

I have added support for drawing all of the different layers of the sandwich case.  The top layer did not change.  I have added two middle layers, one is just a spacer and does not have any cutouts and the other has a 1cm cutout in the center for the USB connection.  I have also added the bottom layer.

Right now I only support the cutout in the center top of the case.  I also am setting it statically to 1cm for now.  I will probably make both of those features configurable, but I wanted to just launch the functionality as is first.  I am not sure how I am going to allow people to specify where they want the USB opening.  I could do it as a percentage across the top, but if you know exactly where you want it (say for a specific PCB), that will be hard to use.  If I specify it as an actual distance, than where are we measuring from? 

That brings up another point.  Right now my middle layers are making the cut 19.05mm from the center of the switch center.  Well assuming the switch is at the edge of the plate.  Basically, it is cutting out everything but the padding you set, so if you draw something without padding, that is what would be cutout of the middle layer for the sandwich case.  Not sure if that is clear.  I am going to have to do something to make this more configurable though because it is possible that a PCB may require a bigger opening than that.  I am looking at one of my Sprit PCBs right now and I think I would need more space than what I am currently cutting out.  The way I am currently doing it is perfect for hand wired keyboards, but I will need to make some adjustments to make it easier to work with PCBs.

I hope this is a useful feature for you all.  :)

Here is a screenshot of what it looks like when you draw a sandwich case now.

91326-0

Offline neverused

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #560 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 00:01:54 »
Awesome work swill!

Offline Dihedral

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #561 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 02:31:40 »
The corner nubs are a little off due to the waterjet cutting program. Thus, the horizontal play in the switches.

We'll work on getting that perfect, but after discussing with swill and phishy on the phone today, it's good enough for regular use. You have to use a bit of force to get them to slide horizontally, so I don' t think this is a big problem.

Alps switches don't work right yet, though, for some reason. That's something else we'll have to work on.

Can you make a video.showing how the alps don't work.

Offline p3lim

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #562 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 06:24:56 »
And decide which stabilizers you will use, Costar or Cherry, and pick one or the other for your drawing.

Not really necessary, I have the combined one (as you know), and both the stabilizers fit really snug.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #563 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 08:02:39 »
The corner nubs are a little off due to the waterjet cutting program. Thus, the horizontal play in the switches.

We'll work on getting that perfect, but after discussing with swill and phishy on the phone today, it's good enough for regular use. You have to use a bit of force to get them to slide horizontally, so I don' t think this is a big problem.

Alps switches don't work right yet, though, for some reason. That's something else we'll have to work on.

Can you make a video.showing how the alps don't work.
The switch depresses but does not rebound. I think it is because it is too tight. We need to do some testing.

Offline neverused

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #564 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 08:22:56 »
The corner nubs are a little off due to the waterjet cutting program. Thus, the horizontal play in the switches.

We'll work on getting that perfect, but after discussing with swill and phishy on the phone today, it's good enough for regular use. You have to use a bit of force to get them to slide horizontally, so I don' t think this is a big problem.

Alps switches don't work right yet, though, for some reason. That's something else we'll have to work on.

Can you make a video.showing how the alps don't work.
The switch depresses but does not rebound. I think it is because it is too tight. We need to do some testing.
Would it be possible to adjust for this by manually adding a small factor to the kerf to "loosen" things up?

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #565 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 08:27:41 »
The corner nubs are a little off due to the waterjet cutting program. Thus, the horizontal play in the switches.

We'll work on getting that perfect, but after discussing with swill and phishy on the phone today, it's good enough for regular use. You have to use a bit of force to get them to slide horizontally, so I don' t think this is a big problem.

Alps switches don't work right yet, though, for some reason. That's something else we'll have to work on.

Can you make a video.showing how the alps don't work.
The switch depresses but does not rebound. I think it is because it is too tight. We need to do some testing.
Would it be possible to adjust for this by manually adding a small factor to the kerf to "loosen" things up?
Well the cutout ended up being about .15mm smaller than my drawing. I am not sure what the alps tolerances are, but cherry spec lists .05mm as the tolerance (but they still work).  If we get the cutout a little closer to the drawing we will know more.

Water jet is a little harder to get the tolerances we are aiming for because of a few factors. Working on it though.

Offline phishy

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #566 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 09:17:36 »
On the bright side of things, you can always take a little material away, can't put it back though.  If I have any problems with my cutouts i'll take a file or something to them.  In the future I'll probably just be using the regular cutout.  I don't really have a reason to open switches once I get them mounted anyways, and that will avoid the corners being too small and the switch moving.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #567 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 09:28:20 »
On the bright side of things, you can always take a little material away, can't put it back though.  If I have any problems with my cutouts i'll take a file or something to them.  In the future I'll probably just be using the regular cutout.  I don't really have a reason to open switches once I get them mounted anyways, and that will avoid the corners being too small and the switch moving.

If you are hand wiring you can unclip the switch without unsoldering anyway.  I will probably just use the normal cutout for my hand wired projects because of this...

Offline sethk_

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #568 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 19:28:35 »
I am getting an Internal Server Error whenever I try to generate a 15x15 plate

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #569 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 20:31:34 »
I am getting an Internal Server Error whenever I try to generate a 15x15 plate
Post the layout you are using and a screenshot of your settings and I will get it sorted. Thanks for the heads up.

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #570 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 20:34:03 »
I am getting an Internal Server Error whenever I try to generate a 15x15 plate
Post the layout you are using and a screenshot of your settings and I will get it sorted. Thanks for the heads up.
Ok, and 12x12 with .5 spacing between each key seems to give me the same error as well.

15 x 15
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/fb056a32269ea05755bda1eeaef97d94


12 x 12 w/ .5 spacing
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d4ec6bbf397bcf0923d35f00541b657b

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #571 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 20:36:37 »
I am getting an Internal Server Error whenever I try to generate a 15x15 plate
Post the layout you are using and a screenshot of your settings and I will get it sorted. Thanks for the heads up.
Ok, and 12x12 with .5 spacing between each key seems to give me the same error as well.

15 x 15
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/fb056a32269ea05755bda1eeaef97d94
Show Image


12 x 12 w/ .5 spacing
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d4ec6bbf397bcf0923d35f00541b657b
Show Image

I will check once I finish getting the baby settled in for the night.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #572 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 23:50:56 »
I am getting an Internal Server Error whenever I try to generate a 15x15 plate
Post the layout you are using and a screenshot of your settings and I will get it sorted. Thanks for the heads up.
Ok, and 12x12 with .5 spacing between each key seems to give me the same error as well.

15 x 15
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/fb056a32269ea05755bda1eeaef97d94
Show Image


12 x 12 w/ .5 spacing
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d4ec6bbf397bcf0923d35f00541b657b
Show Image


Alright, sorry for the delay.  Ok, so the reason it was failing was a combination of a bunch of different things.
1) I had the timeout for drawing a plate at 30 minutes.  The plate was not finishing drawing in that timeframe, so it was failing.  I have upped that time out to 2 hours, so hopefully that helps.
2) You were using the most complex switch cutout, which is not actually recommended anyway because the switch does not clip in as solid as it should.  The draw times increase based on the complexity of the switch cutout (like the manufacturing cost).  I have actually removed that option completely from the UI because no one should be using that.  If you really need to rotate a switch, then rotate the cutout instead (details in the 'layout help' section).  If you REALLY must have that cutout, I have actually left it in the code, but you have to specify the {_t:3} on any key you want to use it on in your layout.
3) This is not something you had any control over, but the SVG export takes a VERY long time.  It is like 10x as long as any of the other exports because of the way it does the export.  Because of this, I have removed it from the default export formats and I have added an 'Export SVG' toggle as an option.  So if you actually want to export an SVG, you just have to turn on the 'Export SVG' option and that export format will be included.  Otherwise it will not be exported by default.

This should take care of the lion share of the issues with the cad taking WAY too long to draw.  Let me know if you have any other issues.  :)
« Last Edit: Fri, 20 February 2015, 23:52:28 by swill »

Offline sethk_

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #573 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 23:52:02 »

I am getting an Internal Server Error whenever I try to generate a 15x15 plate
Post the layout you are using and a screenshot of your settings and I will get it sorted. Thanks for the heads up.
Ok, and 12x12 with .5 spacing between each key seems to give me the same error as well.

15 x 15
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/fb056a32269ea05755bda1eeaef97d94
Show Image


12 x 12 w/ .5 spacing
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d4ec6bbf397bcf0923d35f00541b657b
Show Image


Alright, sorry for the delay.  Ok, so the reason it was failing was a combination of a bunch of different things.
1) I had the timeout for drawing a plate at 30 minutes.  The plate was not finishing drawing in that timeframe, so it was failing.  I have upped that time out to 2 hours, so hopefully that helps.
2) You were using the most complex switch cutout, which is not actually recommended anyway because the switch does not clip in as solid as it should.  The draw times increase based on the complexity of the switch cutout (like the manufacturing cost).  I have actually removed that option completely from the UI because no one should be using that.  If you really need to rotate a switch, then rotate the cutout instead.  If you REALLY must have that cutout, I have actually left it in the code, but you have to specify the {_t:3} on any key you want to use it on in your layout.
3) This is not something you had any control over, but the SVG export takes a VERY long time.  It is like 10x as long as any of the other exports because of the way it does the export.  Because of this, I have removed it from the default export formats and I have added an 'Export SVG' toggle as an option.  So if you actually want to export an SVG, you just have to turn on the 'Export SVG' option and that export format will be included.  Otherwise it will not be exported by default.

This should take care of the lion share of the issues with the cad taking WAY too long to draw.  Let me know if you have any other issues.  :)
I honestly think I clicked that last cutout by accident, and thanks  for the help and support!

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #574 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 23:56:01 »
I honestly think I clicked that last cutout by accident, and thanks  for the help and support!

If you are hand wiring, I strongly recommend the simple square.  It is the most stable cutout and you don't have to worry about desoldering to open the switch because you can unclip without desoldering.  I will probably mention this a lot in this thread, but it is worth repeating.  It is also the easiest to manufacture and will bring down the cost of the plates when you get them cut.

Offline sethk_

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #575 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 23:57:03 »

I honestly think I clicked that last cutout by accident, and thanks  for the help and support!

If you are hand wiring, I strongly recommend the simple square.  It is the most stable cutout and you don't have to worry about desoldering to open the switch because you can unclip without desoldering.  I will probably mention this a lot in this thread, but it is worth repeating.  It is also the easiest to manufacture and will bring down the cost of the plates when you get them cut.
Oh wow, I didn't even think about that since all I have to do is unclip, thanks for the advice

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #576 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 23:58:00 »

I honestly think I clicked that last cutout by accident, and thanks  for the help and support!

If you are hand wiring, I strongly recommend the simple square.  It is the most stable cutout and you don't have to worry about desoldering to open the switch because you can unclip without desoldering.  I will probably mention this a lot in this thread, but it is worth repeating.  It is also the easiest to manufacture and will bring down the cost of the plates when you get them cut.
Oh wow, I didn't even think about that since all I have to do is unclip, thanks for the advice
Ya. I had not thought of that either, but JD educated me on the topic. :)

Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #577 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 00:14:50 »

I honestly think I clicked that last cutout by accident, and thanks  for the help and support!

If you are hand wiring, I strongly recommend the simple square.  It is the most stable cutout and you don't have to worry about desoldering to open the switch because you can unclip without desoldering.  I will probably mention this a lot in this thread, but it is worth repeating.  It is also the easiest to manufacture and will bring down the cost of the plates when you get them cut.
Oh wow, I didn't even think about that since all I have to do is unclip, thanks for the advice
Ya. I had not thought of that either, but JD educated me on the topic. :)

Just make sure to leave enough length on the leads for the bottom of the tabs to clear the plate.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich

Offline sethk_

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #578 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 00:15:30 »

I honestly think I clicked that last cutout by accident, and thanks  for the help and support!

If you are hand wiring, I strongly recommend the simple square.  It is the most stable cutout and you don't have to worry about desoldering to open the switch because you can unclip without desoldering.  I will probably mention this a lot in this thread, but it is worth repeating.  It is also the easiest to manufacture and will bring down the cost of the plates when you get them cut.
Oh wow, I didn't even think about that since all I have to do is unclip, thanks for the advice
Ya. I had not thought of that either, but JD educated me on the topic. :)

Just make sure to leave enough length on the leads for the bottom of the tabs to clear the plate.
Yeah, probably the hardest part :P

Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #579 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 00:16:37 »

I honestly think I clicked that last cutout by accident, and thanks  for the help and support!

If you are hand wiring, I strongly recommend the simple square.  It is the most stable cutout and you don't have to worry about desoldering to open the switch because you can unclip without desoldering.  I will probably mention this a lot in this thread, but it is worth repeating.  It is also the easiest to manufacture and will bring down the cost of the plates when you get them cut.
Oh wow, I didn't even think about that since all I have to do is unclip, thanks for the advice
Ya. I had not thought of that either, but JD educated me on the topic. :)

Just make sure to leave enough length on the leads for the bottom of the tabs to clear the plate.
Yeah, probably the hardest part :P

This was actually the primary reason I wanted the Enablers the size they are.  Well, that and you can do half the soldering before installing in the plate.
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Offline sethk_

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #580 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 00:18:00 »

I honestly think I clicked that last cutout by accident, and thanks  for the help and support!

If you are hand wiring, I strongly recommend the simple square.  It is the most stable cutout and you don't have to worry about desoldering to open the switch because you can unclip without desoldering.  I will probably mention this a lot in this thread, but it is worth repeating.  It is also the easiest to manufacture and will bring down the cost of the plates when you get them cut.
Oh wow, I didn't even think about that since all I have to do is unclip, thanks for the advice
Ya. I had not thought of that either, but JD educated me on the topic. :)

Just make sure to leave enough length on the leads for the bottom of the tabs to clear the plate.
Yeah, probably the hardest part :P

This was actually the primary reason I wanted the Enablers the size they are.  Well, that and you can do half the soldering before installing in the plate.
I hope you dont mind me asking, and this isn't coming off condescending, but what are you supposed to do with them after you solder them into the enabler pcb?

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #581 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 00:24:46 »
I have also encountered a spacing issue: on the top left corner, my spacing is 10mm, and when measured in LibreCAD, it give me a measurement (from the top right corner of the switch cutout) 22.000 x 22.000, but the top rightcorner is 22.000 vert, and 12.5 hori. Bottom rightcorner is 12.5 vert by 12.5 hori, and the bottom left corner is 12.5 vert, and 22.000 hori.
Top Right:

Top Left:

Bottom Right:

Bottom Left:

Offline sethk_

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #582 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 00:26:52 »
That only happens on the lube board with the .5 spacing, so that's actually my fault I think.

Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #583 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 00:27:14 »

I honestly think I clicked that last cutout by accident, and thanks  for the help and support!

If you are hand wiring, I strongly recommend the simple square.  It is the most stable cutout and you don't have to worry about desoldering to open the switch because you can unclip without desoldering.  I will probably mention this a lot in this thread, but it is worth repeating.  It is also the easiest to manufacture and will bring down the cost of the plates when you get them cut.
Oh wow, I didn't even think about that since all I have to do is unclip, thanks for the advice
Ya. I had not thought of that either, but JD educated me on the topic. :)

Just make sure to leave enough length on the leads for the bottom of the tabs to clear the plate.
Yeah, probably the hardest part :P

This was actually the primary reason I wanted the Enablers the size they are.  Well, that and you can do half the soldering before installing in the plate.
I hope you dont mind me asking, and this isn't coming off condescending, but what are you supposed to do with them after you solder them into the enabler pcb?

Mount in the plate and finish soldering the matrix.

This is one build that has been done with them.  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67848.0

Some people don't see the point of them but I don't see any other decent way for LED's on a hand wired matrix.  Plus being able to do full custom layout for any plate and being able to swap without desoldering on a stock plate is nice.

I have also encountered a spacing issue: on the top left corner, my spacing is 10mm, and when measured in LibreCAD, it give me a measurement (from the top right corner of the switch cutout) 22.000 x 22.000, but the top rightcorner is 22.000 vert, and 12.5 hori. Bottom rightcorner is 12.5 vert by 12.5 hori, and the bottom left corner is 12.5 vert, and 22.000 hori.
Top Right:
Show Image

Top Left:
Show Image

Bottom Right:
Show Image

Bottom Left:
Show Image


Padding is from the edge of the cap not the edge of the hole.  I believe Swill sized that off DCS caps from SP which are .715" square.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich

Offline sethk_

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #584 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 00:29:10 »
More
I honestly think I clicked that last cutout by accident, and thanks  for the help and support!

If you are hand wiring, I strongly recommend the simple square.  It is the most stable cutout and you don't have to worry about desoldering to open the switch because you can unclip without desoldering.  I will probably mention this a lot in this thread, but it is worth repeating.  It is also the easiest to manufacture and will bring down the cost of the plates when you get them cut.
Oh wow, I didn't even think about that since all I have to do is unclip, thanks for the advice
Ya. I had not thought of that either, but JD educated me on the topic. :)

Just make sure to leave enough length on the leads for the bottom of the tabs to clear the plate.
Yeah, probably the hardest part :P

This was actually the primary reason I wanted the Enablers the size they are.  Well, that and you can do half the soldering before installing in the plate.
I hope you dont mind me asking, and this isn't coming off condescending, but what are you supposed to do with them after you solder them into the enabler pcb?

Mount in the plate and finish soldering the matrix.

This is one build that has been done with them.  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67848.0

Some people don't see the point of them but I don't see any other decent way for LED's on a hand wired matrix.  Plus being able to do full custom layout for any plate and being able to swap without desoldering on a stock plate is nice.

I have also encountered a spacing issue: on the top left corner, my spacing is 10mm, and when measured in LibreCAD, it give me a measurement (from the top right corner of the switch cutout) 22.000 x 22.000, but the top rightcorner is 22.000 vert, and 12.5 hori. Bottom rightcorner is 12.5 vert by 12.5 hori, and the bottom left corner is 12.5 vert, and 22.000 hori.
Top Right:
Show Image

Top Left:
Show Image

Bottom Right:
Show Image

Bottom Left:
Show Image


Padding is from the edge of the cap not the edge of the hole.  I believe Swill sized that off DCS caps from SP which are .715" square.
[/more]
Ah, that actually makes a lot more sense, I have 3 of them that I was screwing around with, that is very useful now that I know how they actually work.

Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #585 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 00:30:49 »
More
I honestly think I clicked that last cutout by accident, and thanks  for the help and support!

If you are hand wiring, I strongly recommend the simple square.  It is the most stable cutout and you don't have to worry about desoldering to open the switch because you can unclip without desoldering.  I will probably mention this a lot in this thread, but it is worth repeating.  It is also the easiest to manufacture and will bring down the cost of the plates when you get them cut.
Oh wow, I didn't even think about that since all I have to do is unclip, thanks for the advice
Ya. I had not thought of that either, but JD educated me on the topic. :)

Just make sure to leave enough length on the leads for the bottom of the tabs to clear the plate.
Yeah, probably the hardest part :P

This was actually the primary reason I wanted the Enablers the size they are.  Well, that and you can do half the soldering before installing in the plate.
I hope you dont mind me asking, and this isn't coming off condescending, but what are you supposed to do with them after you solder them into the enabler pcb?

Mount in the plate and finish soldering the matrix.

This is one build that has been done with them.  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67848.0

Some people don't see the point of them but I don't see any other decent way for LED's on a hand wired matrix.  Plus being able to do full custom layout for any plate and being able to swap without desoldering on a stock plate is nice.

I have also encountered a spacing issue: on the top left corner, my spacing is 10mm, and when measured in LibreCAD, it give me a measurement (from the top right corner of the switch cutout) 22.000 x 22.000, but the top rightcorner is 22.000 vert, and 12.5 hori. Bottom rightcorner is 12.5 vert by 12.5 hori, and the bottom left corner is 12.5 vert, and 22.000 hori.
Top Right:
Show Image

Top Left:
Show Image

Bottom Right:
Show Image

Bottom Left:
Show Image


Padding is from the edge of the cap not the edge of the hole.  I believe Swill sized that off DCS caps from SP which are .715" square.
[/more]
Ah, that actually makes a lot more sense, I have 3 of them that I was screwing around with, that is very useful now that I know how they actually work.

I really need to put this link in my signature.  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57511.msg1481480#msg1481480
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich

Offline sypl

  • Posts: 116
Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #586 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 05:39:52 »
Functionality Update...

So this may not seem like a huge update because it is only one feature, but I had to refactor a lot of code to add this functionality, so it feels like a big feature to me.  :)

I have added support for drawing all of the different layers of the sandwich case.  The top layer did not change.  I have added two middle layers, one is just a spacer and does not have any cutouts and the other has a 1cm cutout in the center for the USB connection.  I have also added the bottom layer.


Tremendous work!

Offline phishy

  • Posts: 120
Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #587 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 05:44:03 »
More
I honestly think I clicked that last cutout by accident, and thanks  for the help and support!

If you are hand wiring, I strongly recommend the simple square.  It is the most stable cutout and you don't have to worry about desoldering to open the switch because you can unclip without desoldering.  I will probably mention this a lot in this thread, but it is worth repeating.  It is also the easiest to manufacture and will bring down the cost of the plates when you get them cut.
Oh wow, I didn't even think about that since all I have to do is unclip, thanks for the advice
Ya. I had not thought of that either, but JD educated me on the topic. :)

Just make sure to leave enough length on the leads for the bottom of the tabs to clear the plate.
Yeah, probably the hardest part :P

This was actually the primary reason I wanted the Enablers the size they are.  Well, that and you can do half the soldering before installing in the plate.
I hope you dont mind me asking, and this isn't coming off condescending, but what are you supposed to do with them after you solder them into the enabler pcb?

Mount in the plate and finish soldering the matrix.

This is one build that has been done with them.  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67848.0

Some people don't see the point of them but I don't see any other decent way for LED's on a hand wired matrix.  Plus being able to do full custom layout for any plate and being able to swap without desoldering on a stock plate is nice.

I have also encountered a spacing issue: on the top left corner, my spacing is 10mm, and when measured in LibreCAD, it give me a measurement (from the top right corner of the switch cutout) 22.000 x 22.000, but the top rightcorner is 22.000 vert, and 12.5 hori. Bottom rightcorner is 12.5 vert by 12.5 hori, and the bottom left corner is 12.5 vert, and 22.000 hori.
Top Right:
Show Image

Top Left:
Show Image

Bottom Right:
Show Image

Bottom Left:
Show Image


Padding is from the edge of the cap not the edge of the hole.  I believe Swill sized that off DCS caps from SP which are .715" square.
[/more]
Ah, that actually makes a lot more sense, I have 3 of them that I was screwing around with, that is very useful now that I know how they actually work.

I really need to put this link in my signature.  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57511.msg1481480#msg1481480

Oh wow those look convenient.  Wish I had about 70 of em right now haha.

Offline sethk_

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #588 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 08:03:49 »

Oh wow those look convenient.  Wish I had about 70 of em right now haha.
techkeys.us is selling them, unless they are out of stock.

Offline phishy

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #589 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 10:49:25 »
Yeah they are sold out of em.

Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #590 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 13:23:48 »
Yeah they are sold out of em.

Send i3oilermaker a pm.  I know he has had stock number issues with the site before.  And I see the site is down right now.  He just bought a bunch from me and I don't think they would have sold out that quick.  The other big advantage is being able to use pcb mount stabs with a hand wired layout.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #591 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 14:21:56 »
I have also encountered a spacing issue: on the top left corner, my spacing is 10mm, and when measured in LibreCAD, it give me a measurement (from the top right corner of the switch cutout) 22.000 x 22.000, but the top rightcorner is 22.000 vert, and 12.5 hori. Bottom rightcorner is 12.5 vert by 12.5 hori, and the bottom left corner is 12.5 vert, and 22.000 hori.
Top Right:
Show Image

Top Left:
Show Image

Bottom Right:
Show Image

Bottom Left:
Show Image


Here are how the measurements work.

If you had a single switch cutout without any padding you would have the following:



Basically, the switches are 19.05mm apart (center to center) from each other.  If you only have one switch, the plate will actually be 19.05mm (if you don't have any padding).  So it is not exactly the same size as a keycap, it is slightly bigger than keycap.  It is the space in which the key lives taking into account the spacing from other keys.

If you had two keys without padding, it would look like the following:

91533-1

Now lets add 2mm of padding just to show the change in numbers:



Now lets add {x:0.5} to the first key to see how it shifts it.  In this example I removed the padding to simplify the numbers:

91537-3

Notice that the following is true: 19.05/2 + 2.525 = 12.05

Does this all make sense now?  Any follow up questions?

Offline sethk_

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #592 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 14:27:20 »
I have also encountered a spacing issue: on the top left corner, my spacing is 10mm, and when measured in LibreCAD, it give me a measurement (from the top right corner of the switch cutout) 22.000 x 22.000, but the top rightcorner is 22.000 vert, and 12.5 hori. Bottom rightcorner is 12.5 vert by 12.5 hori, and the bottom left corner is 12.5 vert, and 22.000 hori.
Top Right:
Show Image

Top Left:
Show Image

Bottom Right:
Show Image

Bottom Left:
Show Image


Here are how the measurements work.

If you had a single switch cutout without any padding you would have the following:

(Attachment Link)

Basically, the switches are 19.05mm apart (center to center) from each other.  If you only have one switch, the plate will actually be 19.05mm (if you don't have any padding).  So it is not exactly the same size as a keycap, it is slightly bigger than keycap.  It is the space in which the key lives taking into account the spacing from other keys.

If you had two keys without padding, it would look like the following:

(Attachment Link)

Now lets add 2mm of padding just to show the change in numbers:

(Attachment Link)

Now lets add {x:0.5} to the first key to see how it shifts it.  In this example I removed the padding to simplify the numbers:

(Attachment Link)

Notice that the following is true: 19.05/2 + 2.525 = 12.05

Does this all make sense now?  Any follow up questions?
Yeah, no more questions now, I figured out my issue, I added {x:0.05} to the raw data where it shouldnt have been

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #593 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 14:33:46 »
I have also encountered a spacing issue: on the top left corner, my spacing is 10mm, and when measured in LibreCAD, it give me a measurement (from the top right corner of the switch cutout) 22.000 x 22.000, but the top rightcorner is 22.000 vert, and 12.5 hori. Bottom rightcorner is 12.5 vert by 12.5 hori, and the bottom left corner is 12.5 vert, and 22.000 hori.
Top Right:
Show Image

Top Left:
Show Image

Bottom Right:
Show Image

Bottom Left:
Show Image


Here are how the measurements work.

If you had a single switch cutout without any padding you would have the following:

(Attachment Link)

Basically, the switches are 19.05mm apart (center to center) from each other.  If you only have one switch, the plate will actually be 19.05mm (if you don't have any padding).  So it is not exactly the same size as a keycap, it is slightly bigger than keycap.  It is the space in which the key lives taking into account the spacing from other keys.

If you had two keys without padding, it would look like the following:

(Attachment Link)

Now lets add 2mm of padding just to show the change in numbers:

(Attachment Link)

Now lets add {x:0.5} to the first key to see how it shifts it.  In this example I removed the padding to simplify the numbers:

(Attachment Link)

Notice that the following is true: 19.05/2 + 2.525 = 12.05

Does this all make sense now?  Any follow up questions?
Yeah, no more questions now, I figured out my issue, I added {x:0.05} to the raw data where it shouldnt have been
Good good. :)

Offline StinkyTheDonut

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #594 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 19:44:56 »
I tried to line up NerD 108's PCB drawing with a standard 108 layout.
I kind of expected it to not line up. Now that I know it for a fact, how do I get this to work?
Anyone know what spacing I should use on the layout editor?
Measuring stuff in the PCB drawing is giving me weird numbers with up to 4 decimal places.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, or I'm just too lazy to measure and calculate every switch's position one at a time while not really knowing what I'm doing. lol
I only have a washable keyboard.

Offline BigBlueSaw

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #595 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 20:09:50 »
I haven't seen any orders the past couple days for this. What's everyone waiting for?

BTW, we're having a contest to give away $450 in services: http://a.pgtb.me/mhW3Q6

Offline neverused

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #596 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 20:48:36 »
May I ask what the final kerf value was for bigbluesaw?

I may use this tool to order a plate if the SD-60 doesn't show progress soon.

Offline phishy

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #597 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 20:49:05 »
I haven't seen any orders the past couple days for this. What's everyone waiting for?

BTW, we're having a contest to give away $450 in services: http://a.pgtb.me/mhW3Q6

I get my parts tomorrow so i'll post up pics of quality/fitment and hopefully that will get people to start ordering up stuff for their projects.

Offline phishy

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #598 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 20:50:23 »
May I ask what the final kerf value was for bigbluesaw?

I may use this tool to order a plate if the SD-60 doesn't show progress soon.

They adjust kerf themselves due to its being dependent on nozzle wear.  But they have switches and stabs to confirm fitment so you can rest easy knowing that everything will fit properly.

Offline neverused

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #599 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 20:51:00 »
May I ask what the final kerf value was for bigbluesaw?

I may use this tool to order a plate if the SD-60 doesn't show progress soon.

They adjust kerf themselves due to its being dependent on nozzle wear.  But they have switches and stabs to confirm fitment so you can rest easy knowing that everything will fit properly.
Awesome thank you!