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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: MMB on Sat, 04 August 2012, 04:03:47

Title: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 04 August 2012, 04:03:47
So I have been getting quite a few PM's regarding this topic, and wanted to share what I personally know and do for lubricating Cherry MX switches.


First off, why lube Cherry MX Switches? For starters, adding lube to sliders gives a smoother feel to the switches. Especially in MX Browns, which seem to be inherently 'scratchy'. Or in the case of MX Blues, would make the tactility smoother, and lower the clicking sound, depending on which points you lube the stem at. The natural friction between the stem, spring and switch housing can be eliminated by using lube.


On the topic of what type of lubrication to use, there are several choices available to you:

(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/Lube%20Guide/f355db38.jpg)(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/Lube%20Guide/32a68609.jpg)(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/8238/dsc0580y.jpg)(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/00601384.jpg)

1. Krytox GPL-105 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/370608496743?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649) Higher viscosity, better for using on sliders


2. Krytox  GPL-103 (http://www.rmiorder.com/category/KRGPL103/krytox-general-purpose-oil-gpl-103) Lower viscosity, should be fine for all lube points


3. Krytox GPL-100 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pinewood-Derby-DuPont-Krytox-100-Oil-Lubricant-1-2oz-/230738981154)  Lower viscosity, should be fine for all lube points


3. RO-59 (http://www.iomania.co.kr/frontstore/item/item_zoom.asp?item_num=566&mart_id=iomall)


4. Teflon Silicone Lubricant (http://www.lowes.com/pd_363779-39963-DS1004101_0__?productId=3550504) A low viscosity lubricant, good for all applications


5. Krytox GPL-205 Grease (http://www.ebay.com/itm/370601788021?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649) A heavier substance, recommended for everything but clicky stems.


And many, many more options at your disposal. Our friend limmy has posted an in-depth guide (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ro-59-lubricant-t3581-60.html#p69892) on the characteristics of different types of lubes and greases (thank you limmy, really great information there). The choice is yours as to what type of feel you are going for. You may also want to participate in the lube group buy going on at Deskthority (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/keyboard-lube-t3613.html) as well.


For this guide, I am simply covering the friction points and where you would typically want to place lubricant.


For starters, let's go over the primary locations for lubricating:

The illustrated points show where the spring makes contact with the bottom of the switch housing, and the stem contacts and slides against the housing.
[attachimg=1]
Original image (broken link):
More
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/Lube%20Guide/27c90ffd.jpg)


Since I started doing this, I have only been using the teflon silicone lubricant. It seems to work pretty well all around for any one of the lube points. (I can see where grease may work well on the sliders, and will probably be tinkering with that in the coming weeks. I will post my findings and update this thread at that point).

You really want to be careful not to over lube those areas, but rather dab it on very lightly with a brush or Q-tip. Over-lubricating may interfere with the switches contacts if it happened to spill off into that area, so you definitely do not want to overdo it.

Next up, lubing the stem:

The following photo illustrates the points where the stem contacts with the switch housing and the spring. The sides of the stem will come in direct contact, and slide up and down along the inner sides of the switch housing. The spring will fit into the inner part of the stem.
[attachimg=2]
Original image (broken link):
More
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/Lube%20Guide/c7401a5f.jpg)


Lubing a 'clicky' stem:

This is still experimental for me. I am not sure how many, or if anyone else does this. Basically, I lube the slider section of the upper part of the stem (colored part) as illustrated in the photo. This has proven to be tricky, as adding too much will cause it to stick, and you lose most of the 'click' sound, as well as some of the tactility from the slider separating and engaging with the stem. Applied in very, very small amounts, the teflon silicone lubricant worked quite well, and quieted the click very slightly, but enough to still be there. When I tried using the Krytox GPL-105, its viscosity was too dense, and caused the slider to stick.
[attachimg=3]
Original image (broken link):
More
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/Lube%20Guide/dca8c2a8.jpg)

*Note: Stem assembly taken apart for reference only. You do not need to actually separate the 2 stem pieces to lubricate. A fine brush should work great for getting in between the two pieces to lube.

My method for applying lube to specific parts, let's start with the spring:

For the spring, I use a q-tip to apply a fair amount of lube (teflon silicone) to each end of the spring. I lube one end, then place that inside the switch housing, then the other end while it's sitting in the housing.
[attachimg=4]
Original image (broken link):
More
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/Lube%20Guide/624059e4.jpg)


What I use for applying very small amounts of lube to sliders:

I do have a brush, but even sometimes a brush gives you an unanticipated amount of lube. The quill pen can be dabbed with oil and will release a very tiny amount when pressure is applied to an area.
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/Lube%20Guide/4b8a1152.jpg)

Once you have applied lubrication to the specified areas, put the housing back together and test it out. You will probably want to experiment with different lubes and amounts to get the switch feel that suits you best. Everyone has a preference, and I can't guess that for you, only give my recommendations.

I will be updating this guide as more information becomes available. I have just ordered some Krytox GPL-205 Grease, and plan on experimenting with different mixtures of oil and grease.

Again, this is simply my method for doing this, if I am wrong on anything, please feel free to offer constructive feedback.

(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/Lube%20Guide/006472b1.jpg)


Updates:

Adding DanGWanG's superbly uplifted video on lubing:


Just received my metal lube station in the mail. It's going to make my life a lot easier, sho nuff.

(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/27e44019.jpg)



« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 05:38:27 PM by MagicMeatball »
^^ For posterity :-*

Mod Edit: Reuploaded some of the broken image links with images that I had / could find.  PM me if you have more.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Djuzuh on Sat, 04 August 2012, 06:08:37
Great thread.

I hope I'll be able to give more input once the GB on DT finalizes.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: cinch on Sat, 04 August 2012, 10:23:24
thanks!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Xerobasix on Sat, 04 August 2012, 10:43:40
I was just searching for a thread like this yesterday.  Thanks MM!!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 04 August 2012, 11:59:10
Thanks guys. Will continue updating, and your input is appreciated.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: ekw808 on Sat, 04 August 2012, 14:29:22
Nice thread, I was pretty curious about this. On a side note, what equipment do you use/recommend for soldering and do you have any cheaper alternatives if you are currently using a ridiculously expensive iron?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: DanGWanG on Sat, 04 August 2012, 14:37:26
Soldering guide next!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 04 August 2012, 15:28:12
Nice thread, I was pretty curious about this. On a side note, what equipment do you use/recommend for soldering and do you have any cheaper alternatives if you are currently using a ridiculously expensive iron?

I will most likely provide a guide to that soon, as Dan has suggested. Stay tuned! :)

As for hardware:

Desoldering Iron: http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_808.html (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_808.html)

Soldering Iron: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M3U0VU/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M3U0VU/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00)


There are obviously much cheaper options available, try checking into these:


http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP25-Professional-25Watts-Soldering/dp/B000B63BTU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344112191&sr=1-7&keywords=Weller+soldering+iron (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP25-Professional-25Watts-Soldering/dp/B000B63BTU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344112191&sr=1-7&keywords=Weller+soldering+iron)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: tsangan on Sat, 04 August 2012, 17:48:05
Nice pics
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: braaaiiins on Sat, 04 August 2012, 18:29:46
I love your pictures. It's like switch porn.

I use the silicone lube from Elite Keyboards. I just finished lubing my stems the other day, but I only lightly lubed the stem where it contacts the metal flap. I'll try lubing the sliders too, but I was afraid too much lube would invite dust.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: hamza_tm on Sat, 04 August 2012, 20:01:39
MM you are my hero!

Thanks a lot for imparting your knowledge so generously :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 04 August 2012, 21:30:48
Thanks guys! :D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: AKIMbO on Mon, 06 August 2012, 17:08:02
I'm interested in the blue lube job (hehehehe).  But seriously, I'm curious how exactly it affects mx blues.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Mon, 06 August 2012, 17:10:06
I'm interested in the blue lube job (hehehehe).  But seriously, I'm curious how exactly it affects mx blues.

It lessens the click, slightly and smooths out the tactile bump (it's still tactile, but smoother).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: DanGWanG on Mon, 06 August 2012, 17:28:14
Sound comparison or it didn't happen!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 06 August 2012, 23:36:08
I love your pictures. It's like switch porn.

I use the silicone lube from Elite Keyboards. I just finished lubing my stems the other day, but I only lightly lubed the stem where it contacts the metal flap. I'll try lubing the sliders too, but I was afraid too much lube would invite dust.
this is generally why people use dry lubes (eg, ro-59) on stems. a dry lube is usually some micro-scale material like teflon balls in suspension in a very light oil. the oil carries the actual solid lubricant material into the joint to be lubed, and then because it's so light, evaporates, leaving only the solids. the solids then act kind of like bearings to lower the coefficient of friction and material wear in the joint.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Tue, 07 August 2012, 19:18:11
Just arrived at my door. Will update with my findings after some experimentation :) :


(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/8238/dsc0580y.jpg)

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 07 August 2012, 19:32:26
I should be getting my poker with browns and my clear switches in soon. What is the best lube that you don't have to special order or wait months to get? Also, is there still a stem switching guide here at GH or will I have to look elsewhere?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 07 August 2012, 19:42:04
Was it my arguments and pic on DT that convinced you to try 205? My buttery smooth capslock is proof that 205 is some good shït. I highly recommend people to try it, and it is readily available on ebay.

(http://i.imgur.com/8XshQ.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Tue, 07 August 2012, 19:47:21
Was it my arguments and pic on DT that convinced you to try 205?

It was limmy's write up, actually, that piqued my interest. I am just experimenting at this point, and will post my conclusions when the time comes.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 07 August 2012, 19:52:18
I hope you like it as much as I do. I also lube where the rails and leaf touch. You should try doing that as well.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: AKIMbO on Sat, 11 August 2012, 17:33:15
I'm using DuPont's Teflon Silicone lubricant to lube up my buckling spring keyboard right now.  Feels like butter baby...stuff is amazing.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: hashbaz on Sat, 11 August 2012, 23:45:24
Thanks for this, MMB.  I have four keyboards' worth of switches to lube in the near future...
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 12 August 2012, 06:57:55
that krytox 205 looks promising. in principle, a dry teflon lube instead of a wet silicone lube should be more effective in the long run due to the propensity for particulates to get into the switch

edit: oh, the krytox is a stable wet grease with ptfe. interesting!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 13 August 2012, 17:37:33
MMB and Akimbo, where did you guys get your Dupont silicone liquid?  Googling is only giving me the aerosol version.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: AKIMbO on Mon, 13 August 2012, 19:05:25
MMB and Akimbo, where did you guys get your Dupont silicone liquid?  Googling is only giving me the aerosol version.

Lowes has it in the tools/hardware section.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 13 August 2012, 19:42:02
MMB and Akimbo, where did you guys get your Dupont silicone liquid?  Googling is only giving me the aerosol version.

Lowes has it in the tools/hardware section.

Sweet, I don't have to go online to buy special keyboard lube. Stickered, lubed, Ergo-clears here I come (once demik gets the stickers and the switches)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: demik on Mon, 13 August 2012, 19:46:21
MMB and Akimbo, where did you guys get your Dupont silicone liquid?  Googling is only giving me the aerosol version.

Lowes has it in the tools/hardware section.

Sweet, I don't have to go online to buy special keyboard lube. Stickered, lubed, Ergo-clears here I come (once demik gets the stickers and the switches)

DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO

(switches come in tomorrow and stickers close tomorrow :D)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 13 August 2012, 22:30:21
MMB and Akimbo, where did you guys get your Dupont silicone liquid?  Googling is only giving me the aerosol version.

Lowes has it in the tools/hardware section.

Sweet, I don't have to go online to buy special keyboard lube. Stickered, lubed, Ergo-clears here I come (once demik gets the stickers and the switches)

DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO

(switches come in tomorrow and stickers close tomorrow :D)

I can wait baby, I can wait

(just for you, if it were anyone else I'd be going ape ****)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: demik on Mon, 13 August 2012, 22:37:41
haha
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: ekw808 on Wed, 15 August 2012, 18:47:04
Any recommendations to lube 100 switches without taking 4 hours??
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 15 August 2012, 18:49:42
Any recommendations to lube 100 switches without taking 4 hours??

Magic, bro.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: ekw808 on Wed, 15 August 2012, 18:50:28
this **** is nuts, I'm trying to do it with a toothpick, and in 15 minutes i only got like 5 switches
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 15 August 2012, 18:53:12
this **** is nuts, I'm trying to do it with a toothpick, and in 15 minutes i only got like 5 switches

It also depends on how thorough you are with the lube. Because that sounds about right. I open about 20 at a time, and set them on the table, and lube each spring, then go back and lube the top of the springs and set the stems in all of them, then lube them. Kinda like an assembly line. Reaper and I think Demik have a metal piece that holds switches and stems upside-down which looks amazing. Wish I had one.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: ekw808 on Wed, 15 August 2012, 18:55:51
At the same time I am making ghetto greens and red, so an assembly line might be all over the place, I might try it if I get fed up.... I'm gettin the spots on your guide, both sides of the stem, and the base.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 15 August 2012, 18:56:52
You can skip the base of the stem if you lube the top of the spring well enough
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: ekw808 on Wed, 15 August 2012, 19:34:35
I started lubing the housing instead of the stem themselves, and it seems to have the same effect, the housing where the side of the stems touch.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 15 August 2012, 19:35:45
Yep, that works as well. If you are doing an assembly line, it probably makes it a bit faster.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 25 August 2012, 21:16:33
(http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/036121/036121193024xl.jpg)

Will this work? I think it's the similar to the DuPont dry Teflon you have listed above.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 25 August 2012, 21:18:24
I haven't used that myself. It may have a different consistency and feel. But I am not sure. I think they are cheap enough to experiment with, anyways :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 25 August 2012, 23:27:37
Does the Teflon silicone lubricant dry super fast? I just tried lubing a switch, but it evaporated away so quickly it might be hard to apply without using a ton of it. Also does the Teflon silicone dry to a film or does it say "wet"?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 25 August 2012, 23:54:00
It does stay wet, but I also apply a healthy amount of it using a q-tip. I basically pour the lube right onto the q-tip and soak it.

I guess I need to add more detail to my guide, as now I am seeing I left some details like this out :)

Does the Teflon silicone lubricant dry super fast? I just tried lubing a switch, but it evaporated away so quickly it might be hard to apply without using a ton of it. Also does the Teflon silicone dry to a film or does it say "wet"?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: demik on Sun, 26 August 2012, 01:45:13
this **** is nuts, I'm trying to do it with a toothpick, and in 15 minutes i only got like 5 switches

It also depends on how thorough you are with the lube. Because that sounds about right. I open about 20 at a time, and set them on the table, and lube each spring, then go back and lube the top of the springs and set the stems in all of them, then lube them. Kinda like an assembly line. Reaper and I think Demik have a metal piece that holds switches and stems upside-down which looks amazing. Wish I had one.
not upside down

like this

(http://i47.tinypic.com/34r6m4p.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sun, 26 August 2012, 01:46:15
Yeah, the stems are upside down. The bottom of the stem is facing up :p


And I hate you. Give me one :(
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: demik on Sun, 26 August 2012, 01:50:40
oh crap, i didnt even see you mention stems lol
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 26 August 2012, 02:05:01
Im planning to lube my doxes and phantoms and hopefully sticker them if i can get my hands on stickers. Is that krytox the best recommended stuff?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sun, 26 August 2012, 02:08:35
I will have some spare stickers when they ship from Demik's GB. I will hit you up when they arrive.

As of now, I prefer the krytox grease. But again, it's really a personal thing... like different switches have different feels to them. The grease gives it a much smoother feel, but also more muted acoustically depending on how much and where you place it.

Im planning to lube my doxes and phantoms and hopefully sticker them if i can get my hands on stickers. Is that krytox the best recommended stuff?
Title: Re: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 26 August 2012, 02:24:43
I will have some spare stickers when they ship from Demik's GB. I will hit you up when they arrive.

As of now, I prefer the krytox grease. But again, it's really a personal thing... like different switches have different feels to them. The grease gives it a much smoother feel, but also more muted acoustically depending on how much and where you place it.

Im planning to lube my doxes and phantoms and hopefully sticker them if i can get my hands on stickers. Is that krytox the best recommended stuff?
thanks a bunch and ill look into the krytox greese, i believe someone said it was available on ebay?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sun, 26 August 2012, 02:51:03
Yessir:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370601788021?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: OddOne on Sun, 26 August 2012, 06:59:47
@MM - have you ever used both the Teflon lubricant and the Krytox on the same switch.  I would think the Teflon stuff would be better suited for the springs, while the Krytox would be better for the sliders.  I vaguely remember reading this somewhere too? Have you tested this?

@ekw - I agree this will be a time consuming process. I have simply desoldered and harvested the clear stems off a PCB and already have more than 3 hours into the project. As tedious as its been I've enjoyed it though.  The end result will be worth it.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sun, 26 August 2012, 10:07:23
@MM - have you ever used both the Teflon lubricant and the Krytox on the same switch.  I would think the Teflon stuff would be better suited for the springs, while the Krytox would be better for the sliders.  I vaguely remember reading this somewhere too? Have you tested this?

I have been playing around with that, yes. I am in the middle of moving right now, so my work has been on hold, but I plan on posting more on this very soon. My initial findings were pretty positive, but as time consuming as it was, I couldn't be as thorough as I would have liked to be.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: OddOne on Sun, 26 August 2012, 10:38:38
I have been playing around with that, yes. I am in the middle of moving right now, so my work has been on hold, but I plan on posting more on this very soon. My initial findings were pretty positive, but as time consuming as it was, I couldn't be as thorough as I would have liked to be.

Cool, very interested to hear more about your findings. Good luck with the move in the mean time.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 27 August 2012, 23:02:45
I'm not sure if I like my lube or not. The good thing is that it drys fast, the bad thing is it drys fast.

I think it would work best if you wanted to open a switch, put a drop of the lube in, close the switch as fast as possible and then shake it or just depress it a couple times to create a micro-film on all the surfaces. I think I found the lazy mans keyboard lube :D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sth on Mon, 27 August 2012, 23:04:58
this **** is nuts, I'm trying to do it with a toothpick, and in 15 minutes i only got like 5 switches

It also depends on how thorough you are with the lube. Because that sounds about right. I open about 20 at a time, and set them on the table, and lube each spring, then go back and lube the top of the springs and set the stems in all of them, then lube them. Kinda like an assembly line. Reaper and I think Demik have a metal piece that holds switches and stems upside-down which looks amazing. Wish I had one.
not upside down

like this

Show Image
(http://i47.tinypic.com/34r6m4p.jpg)

damn, i hate working with more than one switch open at a time. i have a wonderful habit of bending leaves when there are multiple switches open :(
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Mon, 27 August 2012, 23:10:09
At least you didn't put switch bottoms in a ziplock without their tops on... I lost a fair amount from that...
Title: Re: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 27 August 2012, 23:49:49
At least you didn't put switch bottoms in a ziplock without their tops on... I lost a fair amount from that...
looks at my bags of pcb mount switch bottoms...
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Mon, 27 August 2012, 23:50:37
I can't tell you how many damn bags of separate tops and bottom switch housings I have. It's pretty ridiculous.....
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 28 August 2012, 00:14:43
I wasn't the only one?! How many losses have you guys incurred?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Tue, 28 August 2012, 00:16:45
Not really losses, just tons of bags of stuff everywhere lol.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 28 August 2012, 00:19:23
This is maybe 2/3, maybe less, of what I have AFTER selling a few bags.

(http://i.imgur.com/xeqw6.jpg)

The switch parts and stuff aren't in this pic.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Tue, 28 August 2012, 00:22:40
I just moved into a new place, and it's significantly smaller in square footage. I will probably be having a sale soon to dump a lot of extra switches and stuff.

But yeah, I have a very similar collection. I moved about 4 massive boxes of just all keyboard stuff lol
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 28 August 2012, 00:28:52
I dont know what i have or havnt lost as i havnt looked in the bags ill know once I try to build my DOX's though.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 30 August 2012, 15:27:38
MMB, how do you like your new 65cN springs & stickers?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Thu, 30 August 2012, 15:52:23
MMB, how do you like your new 65cN springs & stickers?

Heya RiGS - I just moved into a new place, so I am slowly getting my setup going again :)

I hope to use them soon, and post a little review :D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 30 August 2012, 16:02:34
I'm looking forward to reading it. Do you have any other custom springs to compare?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Fri, 31 August 2012, 01:47:54
I'm looking forward to reading it. Do you have any other custom springs to compare?

I need to work on getting some different types in, but I would love to test out a few different options. But right now, all I have are your standard Cherry corp fare and the
ones I got from you :D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nntnam on Sun, 02 September 2012, 05:42:24
@MMB, what kind of liquid that you are using to clean the old lube on old/vintage switches?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sun, 02 September 2012, 13:17:12
@MMB, what kind of liquid that you are using to clean the old lube on old/vintage switches?

Heya nntam -

I typically use 95% Isopropyl Alcohol to clean old oils as it leaves the surface super clean without residue.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WRXChris on Sat, 08 September 2012, 11:47:44
Has anyone tried dipping the springs in 75w90 gear oil with LSD additive?  I.e. this stuff? (http://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-01300-Performance-Automotive/dp/B0007QGT34)

I've heard that this is the Koreans preferred method, along with Krytox on the sliders. 
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mistakemistake on Sat, 08 September 2012, 12:02:23
Has anyone tried dipping the springs in 75w90 gear oil with LSD additive?  I.e. this stuff? (http://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-01300-Performance-Automotive/dp/B0007QGT34)

I've heard that this is the Koreans preferred method, along with Krytox on the sliders.

this would smell terrible.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 08 September 2012, 12:08:20



this would smell terrible.


I don't typically smell my keyboards, but ok :P


But Chris - I would love to try it out. And it's odd that a product is called "LSD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide)".... :P
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WRXChris on Sat, 08 September 2012, 12:13:05
hahaha yeah when I first heard about it I thought the same thing, then I realized that they were talking about "limited slip differential".  lol.

Here's what limmy said about it on the dt lube gb thread: "The engine oil is applied to the springs to reduce scratching noise between metal spring and plastic slider. I use some high viscosity silicone oil for this purpose and it works pretty well as well too. Many say spring lubrication is a must and it certainly is more common mod than slider lubrication."
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mistakemistake on Sat, 08 September 2012, 12:16:46



this would smell terrible.


I don't typically smell my keyboards, but ok :P



Hah fair enough, but gear oil has a very strong sulfur smell. You would easily notice it once you entered the room.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 08 September 2012, 12:25:05
I have been using straight up Krytox 205 grease for everything. It's pretty amazing, actually. I use it at all of the lube points. It seems to take care of any scratching sound as well.

Also, as mkawa mentioned, the grease remains 'wet'. So it nicely spreads around and evenly coats the parts.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WRXChris on Sat, 08 September 2012, 12:31:06
Cool thanks!  Maybe I'll just try that then for my first attempt at lubing!  (Also considering something limmy mentioned; using GPL-205 as a base and putting a coat of GPL-105 on top of it for the sliders). 

Approx. how many switches can you get through with 1oz. of GPL-205, using it on the sliders and where the spring meets the housing & slider?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 08 September 2012, 12:37:15
Cool thanks!  Maybe I'll just try that then for my first attempt at lubing!  (Also considering something limmy mentioned; using GPL-205 as a base and putting a coat of GPL-105 on top of it for the sliders). 

Approx. how many switches can you get through with 1oz. of GPL-205, using it on the sliders and where the spring meets the housing & slider?

I have lubed about 4 keyboards so far and it doesn't look like I put much of a dent into it at all. 1oz is actually quite a bit.

This is the syringe I got off ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/370601788021?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I am using it pretty generously as well. So I am sure you wouldn't be going through it too fast. I do have 105 as well, but it has very high viscosity. I wouldn't use it on clicky stems (white, green, blue) as it would prevent the 'click' on the sliding portion of the stem.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WRXChris on Sat, 08 September 2012, 12:47:57
Thanks for all the good info, MM!  This thread is definitely a huge asset to GH. 

I'm waiting for my stickers to arrive before attempting any full keyboard lubing. If I do decide to get some GPL-10x on top of the 205, I'll mess around with different combinations of lube on some extra switches I have sitting around and post my results/opinions here!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 08 September 2012, 12:52:14
Definitely post your findings here. Really interested in hearing results with different combinations.

I am in a deep search for a KMAC, so hopefully I will find 'lube nirvana' before then, and use it on the KMAC :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WRXChris on Mon, 10 September 2012, 13:53:28
Miller-Stephenson (http://www.miller-stephenson.com/) carries GPL-103 but it is currently out of stock.  I just placed an order for a 1oz needle bottle and they said it should arrive in 3-4 weeks!  It cost $29.50+fedex ground shipping.

Basically, my thought process is that GPL-100 is too thin and volatile and evaporates too quickly, so it's far from ideal for switch lubing.  GPL-105 is very viscous and will likely change the feel of the switches, but probably would be preferential for some people.  GPL-103 is in between, and may be the perfect oil (it is the most popular in Korea).

I'm also going to order some GPL-205 and try combinations of that and the 103, plus i will try them out individually.  I'll definitely post my findings here!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Mon, 10 September 2012, 13:57:47
I am working on acquiring several different types. Looking forward to hearing your results!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 10 September 2012, 13:58:03
I plan to order some lube once i get some stickers so what should i order then has it been said whats optimal?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 10 September 2012, 13:59:53
I found the silicone Teflon DuPont at Lowes, that's what I'll be using once I get my stickers from Demik
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 10 September 2012, 14:01:24
I found the silicone Teflon DuPont at Lowes, that's what I'll be using once I get my stickers from Demik
I was probably going to go with a krytox variant as its said to be the best but i dont know what variant to go with.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Mon, 10 September 2012, 14:10:18
I am leaning towards Krytox 205 grease for everything but clicky stems at this point. It's pretty amazing stuff.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 10 September 2012, 14:13:28
I am leaning towards Krytox 205 grease for everything but clicky stems at this point. It's pretty amazing stuff.
well im going ergo clears and/or vintage blacks + 62g springs so i think im fine with that.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: DanGWanG on Mon, 10 September 2012, 17:01:55
I started using a mixed blend of GPL 103 and Krytox grease (205 I think).  Very fancy stuff...
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 10 September 2012, 18:15:36
I found the silicone Teflon DuPont at Lowes, that's what I'll be using once I get my stickers from Demik
I was probably going to go with a krytox variant as its said to be the best but i dont know what variant to go with.

It's so expensive compared to the DuPont. 4oz for $5 and it's plastic safe so that's what I'm going to use. IMO lube is lube
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Mon, 10 September 2012, 18:18:08
It's so expensive compared to the DuPont. 4oz for $5 and it's plastic safe so that's what I'm going to use. IMO lube is lube

Well, there's definitely a marked difference in feel between silicone teflon and kyrtox grease. In face, it's very noticeable. But really it depends on personal preference.

I could probably put together some brown switches and lube them differently and send them out to people for the cost of shipping if people are interested in something like that.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sth on Mon, 10 September 2012, 18:21:13
IMO lube is lube
imo your o is too simplistic :P
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 10 September 2012, 18:21:48
Do it, I'd be interested 100%
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Mon, 10 September 2012, 20:08:15
Just arrived:

(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/27e44019.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 10 September 2012, 22:10:23
Just arrived:

Show Image
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/27e44019.jpg)

O.O where can i get one? Im going to be lubing lots of keyboards that would assist me greatly.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Tue, 11 September 2012, 00:07:54
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/1ea658b9.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Tue, 11 September 2012, 00:09:36
O.O where can i get one? Im going to be lubing lots of keyboards that would assist me greatly.
[/quote]

They were part of a limited group buy on KBD, I believe. I am not sure if they are making them anymore, sadly. You could always try to put up a WTB thread and see what's out there.

Alternatively, you can take a metal plate from a 104 keyboard and use that as well. Probably glue some legs to it or something like that. That's what I was considering before I got this.
Title: Re: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 11 September 2012, 00:14:30
O.O where can i get one? Im going to be lubing lots of keyboards that would assist me greatly.

They were part of a limited group buy on KBD, I believe. I am not sure if they are making them anymore, sadly. You could always try to put up a WTB thread and see what's out there.

Alternatively, you can take a metal plate from a 104 keyboard and use that as well. Probably glue some legs to it or something like that. That's what I was considering before I got this.
[/quote]wonder if we coppied it if there would be enough interest to do a groupbuy on gh.

i think ill go with the keyboard plate idea i have 7 wyse boards on their way to me im sure one of thei plates will be suitable i wonder if there will be enough room to drill holes for the stems.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 11 September 2012, 02:08:54
Krytox 105 and 205 arrived today.  I will be turning at least one of my Cherry switch testers into a lube tester before building my Cheat and Phantom.  I've got one of those fancy switch lube plates as well. ;D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Tue, 11 September 2012, 03:40:14
I will be using some 105 on a couple test switches just to see how it holds up on its own. Maybe ill try a hybrid of 105 and 205, but definitely not on a clicky switch.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 11 September 2012, 09:15:12
So is there a good way to lube clicky switches?  Or does it always screw them up.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Tue, 11 September 2012, 10:12:01
It's in the guide :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: limmy on Wed, 12 September 2012, 06:25:11
I have browsed through your guide, MagicMeatball. It is a nice article! I am glad to see more people are experimenting. From experiment results from many people, I hope this post expands and evolves to a even better guide.

I have one comment on the lubing clicky switches. Why would you disassemble the white part of the stem and lube the points indicated in the OP? I understand the points if your goal is to reduce clicking sound, but if it is for smoother sliding action then it is probably not the place to lube. In my personal experience blues were generally more scratch. I think polishing the blue slider part (where it touches the groves) with fine compound would make is less scratch.(I haven't tried this, but it is my conjecture.)

On more thing on Krytox grease and oils. Base oil of GPL205 is GPL105. GPL grease is just GPL oil thickened with PTFE thickener and the last digit of the grease model number indicates which oil was used as base oil.

Krytox grease and oils mix very well, so you could thin any Krytox grease with lighter Krytox oil or the same base oil. For instance, if you want less viscous oil than 105, you could purchase GPL 100(the lightest variant of Krytox GPL oil, available in ebay) and mix.

I have tried GPL 100 on blue MX switches and it didn't kill the click. I applied the lube on the switch housing (black plastic that holds the slider) with a brush. It smoothed the sliding action, but the difference was rather subtle.

If you want to see whether you like certain types of lube jobs, I suggest you lube more than a couple (at least 4 switches) and press them with all of your fingers and try to type. Some lube jobs feels fine when tested individually, but doesn't feel very nice when trying to type fast.

I hope my comments helped.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: silat on Wed, 12 September 2012, 06:59:39
What a fantastic post MM. Thanks.............
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 12 September 2012, 09:38:49
I have browsed through your guide, MagicMeatball. It is a nice article! I am glad to see more people are experimenting. From experiment results from many people, I hope this post expands and evolves to a even better guide.

I have one comment on the lubing clicky switches. Why would you disassemble the white part of the stem and lube the points indicated in the OP? I understand the points if your goal is to reduce clicking sound, but if it is for smoother sliding action then it is probably not the place to lube. In my personal experience blues were generally more scratch. I think polishing the blue slider part (where it touches the groves) with fine compound would make is less scratch.(I haven't tried this, but it is my conjecture.)

On more thing on Krytox grease and oils. Base oil of GPL205 is GPL105. GPL grease is just GPL oil thickened with PTFE thickener and the last digit of the grease model number indicates which oil was used as base oil.

Krytox grease and oils mix very well, so you could thin any Krytox grease with lighter Krytox oil or the same base oil. For instance, if you want less viscous oil than 105, you could purchase GPL 100(the lightest variant of Krytox GPL oil, available in ebay) and mix.

I have tried GPL 100 on blue MX switches and it didn't kill the click. I applied the lube on the switch housing (black plastic that holds the slider) with a brush. It smoothed the sliding action, but the difference was rather subtle.

If you want to see whether you like certain types of lube jobs, I suggest you lube more than a couple (at least 4 switches) and press them with all of your fingers and try to type. Some lube jobs feels fine when tested individually, but doesn't feel very nice when trying to type fast.

I hope my comments helped.

Hi Limmy -

On the clicky switch topic, I guess that might be confusing; I actually only disassembled it for the intent of showing a clear photo of the exact place on the slider to which lube should be applied. I might need to update that and explain this in more detail.

If you could share a link to other versions of oil, that would be great. The only one I was able to find on ebay was the GPL 105, which I have stayed away from using on anything but housing.

I would love to try GPL 100, as I figured the lower the number, the less viscous it would be. 105 was just too much for clicky switches.

We may need to run a Lube Tester Numpad or something, kind of like the switch tester that was shipped around this year :)

I appreciate your input limmy, and I hope you will continue to add to the discussion. I will update the OP with this updated information from you.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: limmy on Wed, 12 September 2012, 10:15:32
GPL100 in 1/2 fl oz (about 1 oz in weight) on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pinewood-Derby-DuPont-Krytox-100-Oil-Lubricant-1-2oz-/230738981154
There are ones sold in smaller quantity, but I think bigger one is worth the investment if you want to experiment.

Other than GPL100 and 105, Krytox oils are not sold separately at affordable prices.

It would be great if any one could organize a mini group buy. You could purchase GPL oils at
http://www.miller-stephenson.com/ (they don't sell to individuals)
http://www.vacuumoil.com/ (I think you can order GPL oils although they are not on the website.)
Last time I checked 500g container was $207 plus shipping.

GPL103 was bought as group buy at KBDMania. The oil is on the light side and I think they work pretty well, it however is viscous enough that it kills click sound if used in blue switch.

My personal favorite is grease coat + light Krytox oil (I guess little grease + a lot of oil mix would probably work similarly.)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 12 September 2012, 10:26:33
Thanks, Limmy! I ordered a GPL 100. Can't wait to try it.

How well does the grease and oil mix together? Or do they not mix, but coat each other?

I might try to put a GB together for this if there is enough interest.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: limmy on Wed, 12 September 2012, 10:29:33
Thanks, Limmy! I ordered a GPL 100. Can't wait to try it.

How well does the grease and oil mix together? Or do they not mix, but coat each other?

I might try to put a GB together for this if there is enough interest.

Thanks!

Krytox grease and oils mix pretty well. Oil may separate from grease over time, but I don't think it is a huge deal in our application.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WRXChris on Wed, 12 September 2012, 11:35:04
Thanks for your expertise limmy!

I ordered a 1oz. Bottle of gpl-103 from miller-stephenson the other day and just got shipping confirmation.  It cost $36 shipped.  They shipped to my house, I just had to give them a business name, used my old ebay business but could have just as easily made something up.

I'm going to get a syringe of gpl-205 and maybe a bottle of gpl-100 from ebay also and start experimenting!  I'm very excited to try lubed ergo clears and reds!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 12 September 2012, 14:02:42
Updated OP with links to product, and some clarifications (thanks, limmy).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 12 September 2012, 14:17:31
Thanks for sharing your expertise here, limmy.  Much appreciated!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 12 September 2012, 14:23:07
If anyone has any donor Alps switches, I might look into adding a guide for that as well. I haven't take one apart yet :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WRXChris on Thu, 13 September 2012, 20:05:01
gpl-103 arrived today!

(http://i.imgur.com/RXxPb.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sth on Thu, 13 September 2012, 20:07:35
If anyone has any donor Alps switches, I might look into adding a guide for that as well. I haven't take one apart yet :)
i have a minitouch without a case i could trade you for something :) white XM.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Thu, 13 September 2012, 20:08:36
Very nice Chris! Let us know what you think :)

sth - sure, I will take it if you want to donate
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sth on Thu, 13 September 2012, 20:10:52
sure it's just sitting around, want to trade it for what i owe you for the stickers? still works if you have AT > PS2 converter or a PS2 cable (can be swapped out).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Thu, 13 September 2012, 20:14:04
That works, sth :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sth on Thu, 13 September 2012, 20:15:35
cool i will send it to you this weekend, i have a USPS trip coming up :cool:
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WRXChris on Fri, 14 September 2012, 23:49:27
I've spent my evening experimenting with GPL-103 and GPL-205 on a spare mx black board I have sitting around.  I know, I'm such a nerd, great way to spend a friday! Oh wait, that's perfectly acceptable behavior around here :D

My first impressions are that the Koreans have it nailed.  103 alone significantly smooths linear mx switches and slightly dampens the feel and sound of both the bottom out and rebound; 205 alone significantly dampens them but doesn't smooth them very much.  A combination of both smooths the travel significantly (more so than just 103), and also significantly dampens the feel and sound of bottom out/rebound. 

I like the results of both 103 alone and the 103/205 combo for linear switches.  They are definitely noticeably different in feel and sound, and I am not ready to pick a favorite.  I believe both are worthwhile, and that it will come down to personal preference much like switch choice.

keep in mind that all of the above opinions are based on linear switches only.  I used 205 for where the springs meet the housings on all switches, 103 or 103/205 where the sliders touch the housing, and 103 where the slider meets the leaf on all switches.

I also tried 103 on a blue switch, and it seemed to be too viscous.  With a VERY fine layer between the white and blue slider it wouldn't stick, but the click is significantly dampened and seems to take some of the fun out of the blue switch.  It was, however, VERY noticeably smoother, and I imagine that blue switches carefully lubed with GPL-100 would feel awesome.

I'll keep posting here as I continue to experiment; I plan on tackling some clear switches tomorrow!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 15 September 2012, 00:53:36
Thanks for the write-up, Chris! I have some GPL-100 on the way, and I plan on doing a few switches with that and 205 grease :D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 15 September 2012, 00:58:27
Don't worry WRXChris, I spent my Friday night disassembling my poker in preparation to do my ergo clear switch mod. I'm already to start except for my stickers
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 15 September 2012, 01:51:29
I have oficially found out that openning switches on a phantom without desoldering is a pain so i think i might hold off of the lubing until i can get a desoldering iron.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 15 September 2012, 01:54:43
I used a binder clip that I bent so that one of the legs was 90 degrees to the other to open my poker switches without desoldering. My roommate also thought that a dental pick would work well since it's kinda hooked and I've seen them at hardware stores so they should be easy to get.

(http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/thumb/9/25717340389.jpg) (http://www.UploadScreenshot.com/image/1425900/3646556)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 15 September 2012, 14:08:10
Added in DanGWanG's uplifted lube video  ;D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: limmy on Sat, 15 September 2012, 15:51:29
@Dangwang:
Interesting video DanGWanG! Did you use all the lube I sent to you? I thought they were enough for couple of keyboards, but I didn't expect it to be gone that quickly. Well, at least it is good sign that you found them to be useful.

@Everyone in this thread:
Here is a link on the binder clip Cherry switch opener. The tool was seen in an old post at KBDMania and the method is inspired by one of the comments in the old post.
http://deskthority.net/post43053.html#p43053 (in English)
http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/3520312 (in Korean)

This tool is only useful for PCB mounted Cherry MX switches (or Phantom style plate mounted). Proper usage requires some practice and tool tuning.

As for the results from WRXChris, I am glad some of you took an initiative and tried what I suggested. Now that you tried some of the lube I use, try stickers as a next step. It will make more difference in sound. Some like the sticker mod and some don't, but you never know until you try them. I heard demik got the stickers and is getting ready to ship them out(hopefully).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 15 September 2012, 16:02:02
This is awesome! Thank you for sharing, limmy!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 15 September 2012, 20:06:16
Look what just showed up:


(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/00601384.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WRXChris on Sat, 15 September 2012, 20:26:20
@limmy thanks again for all your great advice!  I've got stickers coming, I placed an order from demik :D

I can't wait for my Korean weighted, plate-mount poker case to arrive and I'll have the ultimate stickered, lubed, ergo clear plate mounted poker!  Hopefully I can get my hands on an unassembled KMAC soon too :P

@MM: nice, I must also get my hands on some GPL-100 to play around with!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SmallFry on Sat, 15 September 2012, 22:50:01
I thought that lube isn't that hard to come by, like ShopVelox is just a pinewood derby site. The lube that works the best is just a matter of figuring it out, the availability is irrelevant in my opinion.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: limmy on Sun, 16 September 2012, 01:53:00
There are several variants of Krytox lubricants. Some are widely used and are available in small quantity, some are not. If purchased in small quantity, say 1 oz, shipped price is close to $40, which I think is prohibitive for many people. If purchased in larger quantity, it is still expensive. 500g container goes over $200.

I didn't start my lube journey with Krytox. I tried to explore with cheaper alternative first, but after I experienced Krytox, I didn't really feel necessary to look at any other lube. It was that good. I tried superlube, some lube that I could get for cheap at Home Depot, reel oils, and etc. First, they weren't good enough (that is why I continually searched for alternative and began spending bigger $$ on lubes). Second, safety on rubber and plastic were not guaranteed for the cheap lubes since they lacked proper documents(spec sheets and etc).

My initial search for lube was intended to be used on my aging HHKB, so it had to be rubber and plastic safe. Krytox was well known lube solution for Cherry switches among Korean community, yet I didn't know how to get them and I was hopeful that there were good enough alternatives hence my search began. There may be cheaper and equally good solution, but I quickly learned from my search in cheap lube that cheap solutions don't usually work as it should. I am not an expert in lube by no means, so my search in consumer level lube may have been bound to fail and Krytox is probably an overkill. I just don't know of good enough solution that performs as well as Krytox in keyboards though. If I knew I would have recommended them, but I can only recommend and compare the lube that I have experienced and tested.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nntnam on Tue, 18 September 2012, 12:50:47
I tried lubricating MX blue switches on my dolch pac board. But the lube seems eliminating the clicky sound as well as reducing the friction. Will that sound get back after several days of break-in or typing?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Tue, 18 September 2012, 13:09:49
I tried lubricating MX blue switches on my dolch pac board. But the lube seems eliminating the clicky sound as well as reducing the friction. Will that sound get back after several days of break-in or typing?

Did you over-lube the stems? I mentioned that in the guide. It's a very touchy spot. If you put too much, it will kill the click. It also depends on what you used to lube it with. If the viscosity is too high, it will kill the click. If it's low viscosity, and you add just a very trace amount, it should be fine. Try a couple different switches, using different lube and smaller amounts.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nntnam on Tue, 18 September 2012, 13:29:26
I tried lubricating MX blue switches on my dolch pac board. But the lube seems eliminating the clicky sound as well as reducing the friction. Will that sound get back after several days of break-in or typing?

Did you over-lube the stems? I mentioned that in the guide. It's a very touchy spot. If you put too much, it will kill the click. It also depends on what you used to lube it with. If the viscosity is too high, it will kill the click. If it's low viscosity, and you add just a very trace amount, it should be fine. Try a couple different switches, using different lube and smaller amounts.

Hah, I think I have tried to put the amount as small as possible. Is there any solution for this? to bring the clicky sound back? I used GLP 103 for the stems (all two part of the stem) and silicone oil for the springs.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Tue, 18 September 2012, 13:41:45
Hah, I think I have tried to put the amount as small as possible. Is there any solution for this? to bring the clicky sound back? I used GLP 103 for the stems (all two part of the stem) and silicone oil for the springs.

GPL 103 is definitely too viscous for lubing clicky stems. You can use 99% Isopropyl Alcohol to clean off any lube from any surface. I would suggest the Teflon Silicone or GPL 100 for lubing clicky stems.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: limmy on Tue, 18 September 2012, 15:28:49
I had some success with GPL 103 on clicky switch. You could try and experiment.

[attachimg=1]
Photo source: http://i.imgur.com/dSKQy.jpg or http://imgur.com/a/iu8EU

The place I pointed with arrows are the ONLY place I put some GPL 103. If the lube goes between the white and blue piece, then you are going to loose click sound since GPL 103 is viscous enough that it hinders free movement of white piece of the slider.

As for restoring the click sound, I tried warm water wash and then applied alcohol so it dries faster. I hope it helped.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Fri, 21 September 2012, 16:34:00
I read every posts, and there are a lot of good info in here. One thing that hardly got touched on, was the dirt and dust problem. A long time ago, I read a few times that lubing these switches is great and all, but it also attracts dust. Now there are mentions in here that if you use "wet" lube, this shouldn't be a problem. Since everyone in this thread is still in the experimentation stage, it's hard to know the long-term effects of lube and dust, so is there anyone that lubed their keyboard for longer than 6 months ago comment on this? I'll be getting the switch stickers, so hopefully that will minimize dust problems even more.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: OddOne on Sat, 22 September 2012, 14:32:16
So I just finished modding my fats branded Genovation Micropad from White Clicky Alps to Lubed Black Tactile Alps.  Seeing as its an Alps switch its not exactly on topic, but I used the same principles as are being discussed here...  I used The DuPont Teflon Silicone Lubricant, and lubed the same locations as suggest by MM:  where the spring meets the housing/slider and where the slider contacts the housing.

Now I know this is not apples-to-apples, but the Lubed Black Alps feel kinda like lighter Cherry Browns now.  Lighter in the sense of an ever so slight tactile bump.  The real improvement though is that the entire travel feels as smooth as butter.

I'm typing this message on my Cherry Reds board and now I realize what others have meant when they say that lubing gets rid of the scratchiness.  I had always thought, 'you guys are crazy, reds are already so smooth,' but now when comparing to the lubed Alps I feel it.

Next project is modding my Cherry Blues to Ergo Clears (you may be seeing a trend that I don't like the click).  After that, I think I'll have to lube my Reds as well.  Now I just need those switch stickers...
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 22 September 2012, 15:44:39
Thanks for posting your findings with us, OddOne! Would you mind sharing some photos or maybe a how-to for the Alps switches? I haven't gotten a donor board to build a how-to myself, and would appreciate if you would share with the community :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: OddOne on Sat, 22 September 2012, 18:15:00
Thanks for posting your findings with us, OddOne! Would you mind sharing some photos or maybe a how-to for the Alps switches? I haven't gotten a donor board to build a how-to myself, and would appreciate if you would share with the community :)

Firstly, I'm no good with a camera and the sun is fading here, so I'll try for some better shots another day.  For now, here is the only half decent shot I got of the switch tonight.  I'll throw in a picture of the MicroPad as well to show off the paint job  ;).

[attach=1]
[attach=2]

On the left side you see the upper Alps casing with the slider, leaf spring, and coil spring installed.  On the right is the lower casing with switch mechanism installed.  As stated above my lube points included where the slider meets the casing and where the spring meets the slider & casing.


Hopefully this is helpful to some.  Post comments or questions and I'll try to help!

Cheers,
OddOne
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: limmy on Sat, 22 September 2012, 21:03:24
One thing that hardly got touched on, was the dirt and dust problem. A long time ago, I read a few times that lubing these switches is great and all, but it also attracts dust.
Was there really dust problem? Could it have been hypothetical? If it really happened what type of lube was used?

I lubed Dell AT101W more than two years ago and I don't yet notice dust problems. The keyboard was vertically placed (i.e. not laying flat) and not in a box whole time and I think it would have been venerable to micro dust. Yet, when I open up the switches the lube is still wet and I don't notice dust problems. Instances where dust could be a problem is where lube dries out and become sticky.  I don't know any instances where lubes do that though. I saw vegetable oil become sticky after a while, so there could be certain kind of lube degradation that could become problematic.

I was very content with lubing Alps black with Victorinox multi-tool oil. I applied generously on the sliding parts and on the metal leaf.
Here is some MP3 files before and after:
http://www.otd.kr/data/file/board1/2230108430_f503ad22_10020309+-+Dell+Lube.MP3
http://www.otd.kr/data/file/board1/2230108430_66ff566a_10020308+-+Dell+NO+Lube.MP3

Visualization of the sound file.
http://www.otd.kr/bbs/board.php?bo_table=board1&wr_id=80049

I think lubing Alps black is almost a must. Lubing Cherry switches make it smoother but not to a point where it is a must, but I can comfortably say lubing black Alps is a must. Black Alps board I had was old NIB stock. Maybe new Alps are usable without lube; that I do not know.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: harrison on Mon, 24 September 2012, 09:25:21
Wow.  Guys, this is seriously impressive stuff.  I've been on hiatus for the past month, and will be for at least another month coming... but I'm really looking forward to unpacking my soldering iron and keyboard parts so I can pickup my projects again.  I've got a few vials of RO59 that I'm going to use for the stem sides, but I think it I'm going to pick up some of that DuPont lube for the springs.

MM, I am curious if you could give us a description of the switch feel difference you've found using the KRY205, and why you're so sold on it.  It sounds like a really great solution for a reasonable cost.  Am I correct in understanding that because it's a grease that it doesn't need to dry before being effective (in contrast to the RO59).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: neeb on Wed, 26 September 2012, 23:48:44

MM, I am curious if you could give us a description of the switch feel difference you've found using the KRY205, and why you're so sold on it.

Wondering this as well
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Fri, 28 September 2012, 12:47:02
Well, I can try to explain the key feel using krytox 205 grease, but honestly, you just need to try it out for yourself.


It's just a better feel; it's smoother, quieter and just feels more solid. I probably fail at explaining it, but let me just say that it's totally worth investing in a tube
and trying it.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: neeb on Fri, 28 September 2012, 18:15:00
Well, I can try to explain the key feel using krytox 205 grease, but honestly, you just need to try it out for yourself.


It's just a better feel; it's smoother, quieter and just feels more solid. I probably fail at explaining it, but let me just say that it's totally worth investing in a tube
and trying it.

Fair enough. Yeah that does seem like something that would be difficult to really explain lol
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sordna on Sat, 29 September 2012, 13:22:53
I'm surprised this thread has no mention of Caig DeoxIT FaderLube. It's plastic-friendly and contact-friendly, and it comes in the F5 light solution (cleans and leaves a very light lubrication) or the F100 solution which is a heavier lubricant that can even silence the click out of cherry blue switches according to some posts (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20344.msg445290#msg445290) :-)

The F5 comes in spray, and the F100 in spray/tube/dropper variants.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sth on Sat, 29 September 2012, 17:19:23
Thanks for posting your findings with us, OddOne! Would you mind sharing some photos or maybe a how-to for the Alps switches? I haven't gotten a donor board to build a how-to myself, and would appreciate if you would share with the community :)

Firstly, I'm no good with a camera and the sun is fading here, so I'll try for some better shots another day.  For now, here is the only half decent shot I got of the switch tonight.  I'll throw in a picture of the MicroPad as well to show off the paint job  ;).

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

On the left side you see the upper Alps casing with the slider, leaf spring, and coil spring installed.  On the right is the lower casing with switch mechanism installed.  As stated above my lube points included where the slider meets the casing and where the spring meets the slider & casing.

  • First, with a small tip paint brush I applied the Teflon Silicone lube in both channel guides of the upper casing.  I was fairly liberal here with the lube and in turn did no lube the sliders at all.
  • With the sliders back in place, next I applied lube to one end of the spring and inserted it into the slider.  Again I used a decent dose here, because the spring guide on the slider is fairly large on an Alps switch.
  • Finally with the spring in the slider I put a small amount of lube on the opposite end and snapped the switch back together.
  • At this point I pressed the switch a few times to try to distribute the lube evenly throughout the sliders/channels and on the springs.

Hopefully this is helpful to some.  Post comments or questions and I'll try to help!

Cheers,
OddOne
ot: sweet keypad dude!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sun, 30 September 2012, 03:33:42
Since some of these lubes can take away some of the clickiness from mx blues, would anyone think a less clickly blue would resemble ergo-clears?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: JonDBurnett on Sun, 30 September 2012, 05:00:12
heres a question, would the lube on EK be a good choice to use?  it sounds pretty good, but i feel like everyone else uses something different!!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: limmy on Sun, 30 September 2012, 05:13:08
Clickless blue switches feels more like browns than clears.

EK lube is for stabilizers and is too thick to be used in switches. I remember The_Ed used it and didn't like it at all. Google gives me the following link: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=32296.msg611114#msg611114 There were some discussion of it in ripster's subforum, but all of that is gone now.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nntnam on Sun, 30 September 2012, 07:21:41
^ Yeah, I experienced the clickless blue swich and would say I don't like it at all. I will convert all the blue switches on my dolch board to ergo-clear someday.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Sun, 30 September 2012, 09:14:04
NEVER use EK MechLube inside cherry switches! EVER! Do NOT repeat my mistake which the mods deleted all record of!

I had to push hard and it would slowly go down, and then it would even more slowly rise back up after quite a few seconds... And it made a gross noise too...

I endorsed Krytox 205 shortly after that, and it is the only lube I'll use in cherry switches.

Someone needs to buy my EK MechLube, Krytox 100, and Krytox 106 now.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: OddOne on Mon, 01 October 2012, 11:24:13
ot: sweet keypad dude!
Thanks sth!  I bought this to be a modding practice board, but it ended up to be a pretty cool desk piece.

@MM:  Did you receive those spare Alps switches i sent you?  They were mailed a week ago now.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Mon, 01 October 2012, 11:33:11
OddOne - Yes I did, thank you. Sorry I haven't updated the thread in a while. I will try to get something going soon with the alps switches :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: OddOne on Mon, 01 October 2012, 11:38:58
OddOne - Yes I did, thank you. Sorry I haven't updated the thread in a while. I will try to get something going soon with the alps switches :)
Not trying to rush you ;).  Just making sure they go there ok.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: tubby on Sun, 07 October 2012, 08:25:54
I still have plenty of this left after greasing a couple of backspaces:
(http://www.tmcindustries.com/marys_created_images/White_Lithium_Grease.jpg)
From the last couple of posts, I read that something too viscous would eliminate clicks.
But I'm only trying to reduce friction on Cherry clears. Would the white lithium grease be suitable for that?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Viz on Sun, 07 October 2012, 08:40:46
Great guide.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Arch4ng31 on Tue, 09 October 2012, 02:17:41
So, I'm pretty sure I ran into a problem while trying to lube my keyboard... I have a Ducky Shine II, and apparently there's a metal plate that buts up directly under the switches making the removal of the cap nearly impossible. Is my only option to open it up and remove the plate temporarily? Or should I scrap the lube idea all together?
(http://i.imgur.com/HImmo.jpg)
There's also an LED there, but looks as though it should just stay in place when I lift the cap.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: tubby on Tue, 09 October 2012, 03:55:12
So, I'm pretty sure I ran into a problem while trying to lube my keyboard... I have a Ducky Shine II, and apparently there's a metal plate that buts up directly under the switches making the removal of the cap nearly impossible. Is my only option to open it up and remove the plate temporarily? Or should I scrap the lube idea all together?

There's also an LED there, but looks as though it should just stay in place when I lift the cap.
I think you will need to desolder the switches for plate mount boards.
And you might also need to do extra desoldering on the LEDs before you can remove the switch cover, because what seems to be a hole sized like the LED, is actually just a tiny slit.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Arch4ng31 on Tue, 09 October 2012, 14:01:05
Ah hell... I have almost no soldering experience. I also already bought my lube :/ Very unfortunate. Well, thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 10 October 2012, 14:03:46
I also offer swapping services (de-soldering & soldering), if you need it.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WRXChris on Wed, 10 October 2012, 14:12:06
I spent last night stickering my poker and swapping to lubed ergo-clears! I used a mix of gpl-205 and gpl-103 for the sliders and victorinox multi tool oil for the springs.  It is sooo quiet and is a dream to type on!  It definitely feels much better than my non-lubed filco with ergo clears.  The stickers pretty much eliminate pcb-mount switch wobble, and they also lowered the pitch of the sound. All around awesome.  If it wasn't such a PITA I would do this to all of my boards!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 10 October 2012, 14:13:49
Cloud of boobs, Chris? :D

The 205 really is amazing.

Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: limmy on Wed, 10 October 2012, 20:43:59
I spent last night stickering my poker and swapping to lubed ergo-clears! I used a mix of gpl-205 and gpl-103 for the sliders and victorinox multi tool oil for the springs.  It is sooo quiet and is a dream to type on!  It definitely feels much better than my non-lubed filco with ergo clears.  The stickers pretty much eliminate pcb-mount switch wobble, and they also lowered the pitch of the sound. All around awesome.  If it wasn't such a PITA I would do this to all of my boards!
I am glad you liked my suggestions. It definitely feels better, doesn't it? I must agree that the time and effort that go into the mod is pretty significant.

However, once you experienced smooth switch action, it would be pretty hard to go back to unmodded switches.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 10 October 2012, 20:45:29
I spent last night stickering my poker and swapping to lubed ergo-clears! I used a mix of gpl-205 and gpl-103 for the sliders and victorinox multi tool oil for the springs.  It is sooo quiet and is a dream to type on!  It definitely feels much better than my non-lubed filco with ergo clears.  The stickers pretty much eliminate pcb-mount switch wobble, and they also lowered the pitch of the sound. All around awesome.  If it wasn't such a PITA I would do this to all of my boards!

How long did it take you? I think mine took about 4 hours, but I already had all the switches torn apart to the point that I just needed stickers to start
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 10 October 2012, 20:50:41
You really need to work on trying to find one of these:

(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/27e44019.jpg)

it will make the task much simpler. You can also use a plate from an old keyboard as well, and create some makeshift legs to prop it up, if you cant find the official one.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 10 October 2012, 20:55:29
You really need to work on trying to find one of these:

Show Image
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/27e44019.jpg)


it will make the task much simpler. You can also use a plate from an old keyboard as well, and create some makeshift legs to prop it up, if you cant find the official one.

I don't think I would lube enough switches to make that worth while. Stickers took just as much time to put on as lubing the stems, sliders, and springs.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WRXChris on Wed, 10 October 2012, 20:59:17
thanks again for the suggestions limmy! It sure is nice to have you around here!

it took me 5 hours, and that includes taking the caps off, disassembling the poker, pulling the stems out of new clear switches, and cleaning all of the stems.  Seems to be in line with the amount of time it too you, beast!  Also, I still have 7 switches to go; I still need to break out the desoldering iron and do the switches with leds (that's why no pictures, lol). My back was hurting too much to finish the job in one sitting, being tall sucks from time to time!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WRXChris on Tue, 16 October 2012, 04:17:41
I finished my Poker tonight!  It feels so amazing and is so quiet, even quieter than the only rubber dome in the house.  I used a regular clear spring for the spacebar.
(http://i.imgur.com/WILq5.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Tue, 16 October 2012, 19:39:59
Very nice, Chris! I need to start working on my own boards some time soon. Got too many other peoples boards on my plate :P
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 16 October 2012, 19:47:31
I finished my Poker tonight!  It feels so amazing and is so quiet, even quieter than the only rubber dome in the house.  I used a regular clear spring for the spacebar.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/WILq5.jpg)


Mine isn't that quiet :'(
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: DraJin on Tue, 16 October 2012, 20:53:59
(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag158/0DraJin0/Photobucket%20Desktop%20-%20MEGATRON/photobucket/IMG_0011.jpg)
My lubrication Board. This is prototype by KBDmania Duck0113. :))
: )
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Tue, 16 October 2012, 20:56:01
Very nice, DraJin! :)

Is that 104 holes?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 16 October 2012, 20:58:14
That thing's massive.

I counted 21x4 unless there's more off the screen.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 16 October 2012, 23:19:01
I got 23 * 4.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 17 October 2012, 00:16:11
It's at least 23 x 4, might be larger because you can't see the rest of it off camera. Dam that thing is long. *In b4 "that's what she said" joke*
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 17 October 2012, 00:17:36
It's at least 23 x 4, might be larger because you can't see the rest of it off camera. Dam that thing is long. *In b4 "that's what she said" joke*

Bro... you HAVE to allow for a 'that's what she said' joke. You can't do an *in b4* on that one. It's just not right.....
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Wed, 17 October 2012, 19:30:55
Sorry for the lack of updates guys. I have a lot of projects on my plate right now - switch conversions, new builds, keycap designs, etc, etc. I will try to update as soon as I can.


T_T
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 17 October 2012, 19:32:35
You forgot painting :P

(Sorry bro! Appreciate your time and efforts )
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 27 October 2012, 00:39:32
I did some lube test tonight (wink wink)


I used:
Super Lube:
(http://www.super-lube.com/images/synthetic-grease-3oz-tube.jpg)

Teflon Non-Stick:
(http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/036121/036121193024xl.jpg)

Teflon Silicone:
(http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/036121/036121197251lg.jpg)


At first they all felt the same. But once I put them on a plate, OMG so different. All stickered ergo clears

Super Lube: Quietest, Smooth for something that's tactile
Teflon Non-Stick: Average, Somewhat sticky
Teflon Silicone: Loudest, Sticky


TBH I'm liking the super lube the most because it's quiet, still tactile but also smooth

View My Video (http://tinypic.com/r/2wgr4mh/6)
Heart = Super lube
Club= Teflon Silicone
Diamond = Teflon Non-Stick
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 27 October 2012, 00:43:28
How sticky was it, bro?


(http://www.straingeniuslabs.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/Large/ktc-sticky_icky.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 27 October 2012, 00:45:09
Not good bro. Stock browns are better
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 27 October 2012, 00:59:54
Superlube is good depending which variation you get i believe we were talking about this in the old thread pre-worm
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sat, 27 October 2012, 01:03:36
On the last couple of boards I have been building, I have mixed Krytox 205 with GPL-100. It's been quite successful. Very smooth, no sticky keys and nice and quiet.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 27 October 2012, 01:04:56
That's why I didn't think it was going to work all that well, it's pretty thick stuff
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: cgbuen on Sat, 27 October 2012, 01:46:30
Interesting. Is this the one? (http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Grease-Syncolon-Purpose-Lubricant/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351319812&sr=8-1&keywords=superlube) I was thinking about jumping on a $4 bottle of the Du Pont Teflon Silicone, but could go for the Super Lube at $6. Any thought on whether it would be safe in the long run?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheQsanity on Sat, 27 October 2012, 06:29:34
Lubing station??? How did this happen? What is krytox normally used for? Anybody use deoxit? Any difference frim them?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 02 November 2012, 02:40:47
Got myself a lube station and my lube it on the way keyboards beware
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jeroplane on Fri, 02 November 2012, 03:27:00
Lubing station??? How did this happen? What is krytox normally used for? Anybody use deoxit? Any difference frim them?

I think they're most commonly used for lubing the wheels of pinewood derby cars.

Anyone know places to buy lube that might ship to Australia? Going to be modding Blacks to ghetto Reds and would like to lube it in the process.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 02 November 2012, 03:57:54
I think they're most commonly used for lubing the wheels of pinewood derby cars.

Anyone know places to buy lube that might ship to Australia? Going to be modding Blacks to ghetto Reds and would like to lube it in the process.

I ship worldwide. Do you want 100, 106, or MechLube?

(http://i.imgur.com/y3NAF.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 02 November 2012, 14:36:00
I got my lube off ebay many times they ship world wide
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Michael on Fri, 02 November 2012, 18:59:20
1. Krytox GPL-105 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/370608496743?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649) Higher viscosity, better for using on sliders


2. Krytox  GPL-103 (http://www.rmiorder.com/category/KRGPL103/krytox-general-purpose-oil-gpl-103) Lower viscosity, should be fine for all lube points


3. Krytox GPL-100 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pinewood-Derby-DuPont-Krytox-100-Oil-Lubricant-1-2oz-/230738981154)  Lower viscosity, should be fine for all lube points


3. RO-59 (http://www.iomania.co.kr/frontstore/item/item_zoom.asp?item_num=566&mart_id=iomall)


4. Teflon Silicone Lubricant (http://www.lowes.com/pd_363779-39963-DS1004101_0__?productId=3550504) A low viscosity lubricant, good for all applications


5. Krytox GPL-205 Grease (http://www.ebay.com/itm/370601788021?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649) A heavier substance, recommended for everything but clicky stems.I have links on where to buy the different types of lubes in the first post of the guide, but I will put them here again for you:
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jeroplane on Sat, 03 November 2012, 03:19:41
Sorry MMB, I should have clarified. I've read through your guide two or three times and it's all been really clear and helpful, which is what made me decide that I would like to try it myself.

After reading I figured the Krytox 100 and 103 would be ideal, but most of the sites (incl. eBay) don't ship internationally.

Although I've only just seen the eBay sales for the GPL-205, which you've recommended for all-purpose use, and they ship internationally so I think I'll go for that.

Thanks for the help and the great guide.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 03 November 2012, 03:22:26
I went with the gpl 205 as well though it stuck on the east coast at the moment preventing me from lubing.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jeroplane on Sat, 03 November 2012, 03:27:18
I went with the gpl 205 as well though it stuck on the east coast at the moment preventing me from lubing.

Ah damn, so that's what's holding up your KMAC build. I've been waiting to receive something from the States and it seems like it's been delayed due to Sandy too.

How much did you order? I am wondering what would be sufficient for lubing a single 104-key board.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 03 November 2012, 03:33:12
Yes sadly that is one thing that is holding up my KMAC build. I ordered one tube from the link thats in this thread. I read its more then enough for multiple keyboards. I will eventually find out how many as i have like 8 keyboards to lube total currently.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Kibble Fat on Tue, 13 November 2012, 02:02:00
Hi everyone, this is my first post here and yes, I read the whole thread  ;D! 

I bought a sample kit from WASD containing 1 of each black, red, brown, and blue MX switches.  I'm glad I did since the brown I thought I would for sure enjoy is kind of a let down... 

Has anyone taken video of a lubed mx-blue?  I love the feel of the blue compared to brown, but can't get over the loud high-pitched click (with o-ring).  I'm thinking I'll try a few greases from work.  We commonly use Krytox and recently a cheaper option that copes with heat aging better, has all the performance characteristics of Krytox, and doesn't squeak after abusive 13k-20k cycle tests (various plastic mechanisms).  I will get the info on the cheaper stuff since a lot of you aren't keen on experimenting with multiple Krytox greases.  When I say cheaper, it might only be a few percentage points cheaper -- ha!

I'm torn between browns and blues...

IMO of course

I'm hoping some experimentation with different lubes will help me make a decision as it seems the negative qualities of each could be addressed.  Anyways, a vid of lubricated blues or browns would be greatly appreciated.  I will do some experimenting on my own, I'm just not sure which Krytox(es) I have access to

Cheers,
-Eric
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sth on Wed, 14 November 2012, 12:57:42
Ahhh it's taken me a hot minute to get around to this but I wanted to make sure I had ample time to get used to the switches before I made any judgements. No proofing or drafting, just a little period of barfing on the keyboard :P

MMB built a platemount board with lubed ergo clears for me pretty recently. When I got it the first word that came to mind was 'mushy'! I actually wasn't sure I was going to like the feeling. I believe he used fairly viscous lubricant. It's hard to say without having a non-lubed ergo clear board but it almost feels like the lube increases the amount of force needed to actuate the switch while simultaneously reducing the friction. That's the best way I can describe it, even if it's not technically the case.
However after a week or so of thocking away (it sounds and feels much more like a topre than any other MX board I own) I have to say I've really come to like the feeling. It's very unique -- even comparing it to Topre switches doesn't do it much justice. Whenever I switch switches my accuracy goes down as I acclimate to the force and tactile feel, and it really didn't take too long for me to start gliding on this board. I need to look into lubing or shimming the spacebar stabilizer in such a way that it feels a little closer to the rest of the keys because the stabilzer clack is a bit louder than everything else (not on the bottom out but on the return rebound).
All in all I'm really pleased with the work and having a completely unique board. I can't say that I prefer lubed switches definitively over non-lubed switches but they are about equal in my book - just providing very different tactile experiences. I am greatly looking forward to MMB's next build with lighter lubricant and tactile+clicky switches.
If anyone has any particular questions or anything let me know and as always, if you want your board  built to stellar standards with an insane attention to detail, MMB is one of the best options out there :D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 14 November 2012, 16:14:46
I agreed with Ergo Clears feeling like topre's.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 14 November 2012, 16:41:03
I agreed with Ergo Clears feeling like topre's.

What kind of topre? 55g, 45g, or 30g?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 14 November 2012, 17:39:35
I agreed with Ergo Clears feeling like topre's.

What kind of topre? 55g, 45g, or 30g?
they feel like the actuation of a topre so idk if wait matters. i only have 45g topre to compare to i havent lube ergos yet but will be on the third KMAC im building.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sth on Wed, 14 November 2012, 19:47:38
I agreed with Ergo Clears feeling like topre's.

What kind of topre? 55g, 45g, or 30g?
well it feels 'heavier' than my 45g. i haven't tried 55g so I couldn't say for sure.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jeroplane on Sun, 18 November 2012, 05:39:23
Have you guys used Browns before? Would you say converting from Browns to Ergo Clears (I will be lubing them) is worth the ~$50 cost?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sun, 18 November 2012, 10:22:13
My mini board is using lubed and stickered MX browns, and I have to say I like them. The difference in the tactile bump between browns and clears is definitely noticeable. But that's really all personal preference.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jeroplane on Sun, 18 November 2012, 20:36:40
Ah cool. I've picked up some Clears anyway so perhaps I'll just test a few Browns vs. Clears after lubing and stickering. My daily driver is Blues but I also like using Reds, so it's a tough choice for me.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: fl0w3n on Mon, 26 November 2012, 00:02:58
Damn, $20-30 is a lot for enough lube for likely every board here on GH...

They sell any smaller bottles? 
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 26 November 2012, 00:25:44
Damn, $20-30 is a lot for enough lube for likely every board here on GH...

They sell any smaller bottles? 

You might want to try super lube, I quite like it. It's thicker so it dampens/muffles the key stroke but also keeps it butter smooth.
http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Grease-Syncolon-Purpose-Lubricant/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353911055&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube


I'd send you some, but I don't know how I'd ship it
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: fl0w3n on Mon, 26 November 2012, 00:48:03
It's good for applying to both the sliders and spring? 

I'm looking at just using it on Clears/Browns/Blacks.

Hmm, if you can think of a super small container you could squeeze some into, or maybe even just a plastic bag, I could give you a few $$ for stamps?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nevin on Sat, 08 December 2012, 01:22:32
i have not read through the whole thread... but, i do have some suggestions... years ago i used to race R/C cars and there are lots of dry-type spray lubes that you spray on/in, it evaporates very quickly & leaves a slick surface, not wet, but slick. almost all of these are safe on electronics. before the "big boom" in gas R/C cars, everything was electric motors & NiCad batteries.... Yes, NiCad. electric motor spray may also be good to clean out old/lube-coagulated switches. we used motor spray regularly to clean out the electric motors after races or while breaking in a new motor to clean the comm while the brushes were wearing in. if you have a local hobby shop, pop-in & see what they have, you might be surprised.

Hell, you may even be able to depress the stem, and spray some in. (while keyboard is unplugged of course! the aerosol propellant is probably flammable, just to be safe) without having to open switch or desolder.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jeroplane on Sat, 08 December 2012, 03:00:03
i have not read through the whole thread... but, i do have some suggestions... years ago i used to race R/C cars and there are lots of dry-type spray lubes that you spray on/in, it evaporates very quickly & leaves a slick surface, not wet, but slick. almost all of these are safe on electronics. before the "big boom" in gas R/C cars, everything was electric motors & NiCad batteries.... Yes, NiCad. electric motor spray may also be good to clean out old/lube-coagulated switches. we used motor spray regularly to clean out the electric motors after races or while breaking in a new motor to clean the comm while the brushes were wearing in. if you have a local hobby shop, pop-in & see what they have, you might be surprised.

Hell, you may even be able to depress the stem, and spray some in. (while keyboard is unplugged of course! the aerosol propellant is probably flammable, just to be safe) without having to open switch or desolder.

That is some good advice. The lubricants mentioned in this thread are indeed primarily used for RC/pinewood car racing, so many lubricants found in hobby shops that cater to those things will be suitable for MX switches.

However, I believe people have reported very poor results when applying lube without removing the switch top, ruining the feel of the switch.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TotalChaos on Sat, 08 December 2012, 07:00:39
i have not read through the whole thread... but, i do have some suggestions... years ago i used to race R/C cars and there are lots of dry-type spray lubes that you spray on/in, it evaporates very quickly & leaves a slick surface, not wet, but slick. almost all of these are safe on electronics.
What sort of technology do these lubricants you speak of use?

Does it count as "grease"?

I was told grease will travel around and leak out, for example if you ship your keyboard, it gets flipped upside down or sideways and then shaken violently for hours on end and all the grease will leak out everywhere.

Or does it count as some sort of "binding teflon"?

Which supposedly bonds to metal and plastic and won't ever leak.


The reason I ask is because I am horribly disabled by pain and no way I can learn to solder/desolder like this.  I can't even leave my apartment.  So I am thinking of hiring a geekhacker to lube my springs for me and I could pay $200.00 for the service or whatever they say is fair.  But this means my keyboard(s) get shipped and shaken violently while sideways or upside down.

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nevin on Sat, 08 December 2012, 16:27:06
However, I believe people have reported very poor results when applying lube without removing the switch top, ruining the feel of the switch.

yeah, now that i think about it... being an aerosol, the stuff comes out very fast and even a quick blast, may be too much.

--

motor spray
- Duratrax Power Shot Motor Spray
- T.A. Emerald Performance Plus 3 Motor Spray

if you search tower hobbies site (one of the big online/catalog stores in US), you should find them as well as links to the manufacturer's sites. neither of these mention any kind of lube/friction resistance, but these are two examples of what i was talking about.

the one i used to use (bought at local hobby shop) was a huge econo-sized aerosol can with a generic looking hot pink label that wrapped the can. like a b/w photo-copy on that fluorescent pink looking paper. i'll have to dig & see if it's still in my pit box.

as far as lubes, silicon was the hot item at the time, the teflon stuff wasn't around/readily available (or public) yet.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: tinlong117 on Sun, 16 December 2012, 11:03:52
Hi everyone,
A question, is it possible to lube switch with ky? I have a friend who are a distributor of ky. I can get them for free and as much as I want :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MMB on Sun, 16 December 2012, 11:08:34
Hi everyone,
A question, is it possible to lube switch with ky? I have a friend who are a distributor of ky. I can get them for free and as much as I want :)

Sure dude. You can lube your switches and yourself at the same time
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: DanGWanG on Sun, 16 December 2012, 11:09:40
Make sure you get the tingly one.  I heard the MX switches like that...
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Wed, 19 December 2012, 01:05:44
Wasn't there a thread about how someone used sex lube and it was disastrous? It dried out to a sticky consistency and ruined the switches if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SmallFry on Wed, 19 December 2012, 07:57:33
That would have to be water based, hence why it ruined the switch...

V-TEC KICKED IN YO!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: kbfreak on Sat, 22 December 2012, 07:00:57
Very good concept and great tutorial. Seems quite time consuming though. How long did it take to finish lubing all keys on a standard keyboard?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Beherith on Tue, 01 January 2013, 15:05:23
I have a kinesis advantage with brown stems, and Im not too happy with the raspyness of the tactile bump. I just ordered some GPL 205 off ebay, as it is available for $9 for 1/4oz. Hopefully I can achieve the cloud of boobs, with this or by switching to red stems.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 04 January 2013, 16:17:29
[Group buy] Krytox GPL 200 [Order cutoff - January 7]

http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/krytox-gpl-200-t4737.html (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/krytox-gpl-200-t4737.html)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: rek55 on Fri, 04 January 2013, 16:20:56
I've only lubed up the stabilizer's on my Das (they were squeaky). I had read something which suggested I use white lithium grease. Is that suitable for the stems as well, or would that not work very well?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Dgsbllx on Fri, 04 January 2013, 16:23:12
I read some random stuff about ergo-clears supposedly 'sticking'. Would lubricating help this?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 04 January 2013, 16:24:07
I read some random stuff about ergo-clears supposedly 'sticking'. Would lubricating help this?
probably but the 100% new ones ive always put together have never stuck
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 04 January 2013, 16:52:04
Anyone have a source for Krytox GPL 103? Seems like 205 is good for sliders, but I want some 103 for the springs.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 04 January 2013, 17:08:04
Anyone have a source for Krytox GPL 103? Seems like 205 is good for sliders, but I want some 103 for the springs.
205 good for springs too though needs a little bit of work in
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 04 January 2013, 17:10:45
Just join my krytox 200 groupbuy as it is less viscous than 205, but wont run everywhere like 103.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jeroplane on Fri, 04 January 2013, 19:36:27
I read some random stuff about ergo-clears supposedly 'sticking'. Would lubricating help this?

I had a key sticking after I modded my Poker to Ergo Clears with stickers and lube. Tried to lube it a little more but that didn't help it. I think sticking just happens when you get an unlucky combination of spring + stem + housing. Mainly the spring - if it is slightly lighter then it won't push the stem back up properly.
Title: Re: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 06 January 2013, 01:26:44
I read some random stuff about ergo-clears supposedly 'sticking'. Would lubricating help this?

I had a key sticking after I modded my Poker to Ergo Clears with stickers and lube. Tried to lube it a little more but that didn't help it. I think sticking just happens when you get an unlucky combination of spring + stem + housing. Mainly the spring - if it is slightly lighter then it won't push the stem back up properly.
sounds like you need an upgrade to 62g gold korean springs ;)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Glod on Mon, 07 January 2013, 13:07:14
will this stuff work?

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8217/8358983760_ddd297ceb2.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/8358983760/)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8084/8358984202_d7fa7a81d2.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/8358984202/)

i experimented with it on some loose wasd sampler switches i had and after a day it actually turns into more of a lubricating film/coating than staying in a liquid form; i can feel the difference but i wasn't sure if its worth doing this to dozens of switches. wasn't sure if it will disappear over time.

edit: fyi i applied by spraying it into a paper bowl and then using a small brush to apply it to the points listed in the OP

Title: Re: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Glod on Tue, 08 January 2013, 02:12:17
Show Image
will this stuff work?

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8217/8358983760_ddd297ceb2.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/8358983760/)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8084/8358984202_d7fa7a81d2.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/8358984202/)

i experimented with it on some loose wasd sampler switches i had and after a day it actually turns into more of a lubricating film/coating than staying in a liquid form; i can feel the difference but i wasn't sure if its worth doing this to dozens of switches. wasn't sure if it will disappear over time.

edit: fyi i applied by spraying it into a paper bowl and then using a small brush to apply it to the points listed in the OP

lol did some more experimentation with this stuff, it's definitely not something to use for this stuff.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Leslieann on Tue, 08 January 2013, 06:29:50
Guys, seriously, just go to a hobby shop.
Use something rather thick on the spring and as thin as possible on the sliders. I used rc car diff(?) lube/grease for my springs, and silicone shock oil for my sliders. I think I spent all of $7, if they have any half empty stuff and pay even less.

It's cheaper, it's safe (everything there is plastic based) and you get a big selection of viscosities.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 09 January 2013, 02:23:40
Anyone have a source for Krytox GPL 103? Seems like 205 is good for sliders, but I want some 103 for the springs.

I bought some GPL-103 from miller-stephenson a few months ago. It was expensive as hell... $45 shipped for a 1oz bottle. They don't sell to individuals though, so you'll need to have a business name and address.

A mixture of 205 and 103 does feel nice though. It's more sleek than just 205. Whether it's "worth" the extra $45 is for you to decide. When I run out, I'll try some cheaper alternatives like Leslieann mentioned to see if cheaper stuff feels the same.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: cytoSiN on Wed, 09 January 2013, 10:00:02
Sorry, I know this is the "switch lube" thread, but since it seems many of you have used the 205, do you recommend that lube for cherry space bar stabilizers, or should I just stick with MechLube?

If the 205 is better, is this the right stuff (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPONT-KRYTOX-GPL-205-Grease-oz-SCUBA-Oxygen-Nitrox-/270726776537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0892c6d9)?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 10 January 2013, 03:49:55
Sorry, I know this is the "switch lube" thread, but since it seems many of you have used the 205, do you recommend that lube for cherry space bar stabilizers, or should I just stick with MechLube?

If the 205 is better, is this the right stuff (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPONT-KRYTOX-GPL-205-Grease-oz-SCUBA-Oxygen-Nitrox-/270726776537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0892c6d9)?

Thanks.
go with the 205 if youve got the scratch
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jeroplane on Fri, 11 January 2013, 05:06:57
Sorry, I know this is the "switch lube" thread, but since it seems many of you have used the 205, do you recommend that lube for cherry space bar stabilizers, or should I just stick with MechLube?

If the 205 is better, is this the right stuff (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPONT-KRYTOX-GPL-205-Grease-oz-SCUBA-Oxygen-Nitrox-/270726776537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0892c6d9)?

Thanks.

That is the right stuff. I bought from that exact tube from that seller.

Speaking of which, I just came back from a 3-day trip and my lubed Ergo Clears somehow feel a lot smoother than when I first lubed them 2 days prior to the trip. Very happy with it :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: cytoSiN on Fri, 11 January 2013, 08:02:22
Sorry, I know this is the "switch lube" thread, but since it seems many of you have used the 205, do you recommend that lube for cherry space bar stabilizers, or should I just stick with MechLube?

If the 205 is better, is this the right stuff (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPONT-KRYTOX-GPL-205-Grease-oz-SCUBA-Oxygen-Nitrox-/270726776537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0892c6d9)?

Thanks.

That is the right stuff. I bought from that exact tube from that seller.

Speaking of which, I just came back from a 3-day trip and my lubed Ergo Clears somehow feel a lot smoother than when I first lubed them 2 days prior to the trip. Very happy with it :)

Thanks guys.  I ordered that tube, it's in the mail, will report back :)
Title: Re: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: cgbuen on Fri, 11 January 2013, 10:27:24
I read some random stuff about ergo-clears supposedly 'sticking'. Would lubricating help this?

I had a key sticking after I modded my Poker to Ergo Clears with stickers and lube. Tried to lube it a little more but that didn't help it. I think sticking just happens when you get an unlucky combination of spring + stem + housing. Mainly the spring - if it is slightly lighter then it won't push the stem back up properly.
sounds like you need an upgrade to 62g gold korean springs ;)
I've been stickering and lubing and have come across this problem as well. I've been using Superlube on both the spring and sliders, imsto thick caps, and blue springs I harvested from a QFR. Is a slightly heavier spring really the only option? And is 62g really enough?

(I've got enough 65g springs for a different project, but I happened to try one anyway, and it didn't stick.. it makes me wonder where 62g stands.)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jeroplane on Fri, 11 January 2013, 18:12:59
How many switches were sticking? For me it was just a matter of swapping around some springs and stems between the switches to find combinations that didn't stick for some reason. Personally don't have experience with Korean springs, so I can't weigh in on that.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: cgbuen on Fri, 11 January 2013, 21:44:21
I've only done 11 total so far with blue springs (I'm slow, and as soon as I noticed I stopped myself short from continuing), I can definitely get one to hangup completely, three to get stuck for a split second, and the rest to have at least a slight feeling of stickiness. I'm guessing it's a matter of spring tolerance :\
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: rek55 on Fri, 11 January 2013, 23:12:40
I don't think I'd be able to do this to my Das unless I desolder every switch.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sordna on Sat, 12 January 2013, 00:29:23
cgbuen / jeroplane ,  what are the stickers you are referring to ?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: cgbuen on Sat, 12 January 2013, 00:57:39
Switch stickers like the ones in this old GB: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34446.0, but when I talk about keys "sticking" I literally mean upon depressing the springs have some trouble pushing the stems back up, and I'm not sure if lubricant might be a culprit in this.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TotalChaos on Sat, 12 January 2013, 01:19:58
Switch stickers like the ones in this old GB: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34446.0, but when I talk about keys "sticking" I literally mean upon depressing the springs have some trouble pushing the stems back up, and I'm not sure if lubricant might be a culprit in this.
Did u put too much lube on?

Leslieann the Lubimatrix says you must only use a tiny microscopic amount.  I can't remember exactly but I think a few drops for the whole entire keyboard was the right amount.  So I guess 1/30th drop per switch.  I donno.  I never did it myself.  I'm a LubeNewb  :p
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jeroplane on Sat, 12 January 2013, 02:08:05
Switch stickers like the ones in this old GB: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34446.0, but when I talk about keys "sticking" I literally mean upon depressing the springs have some trouble pushing the stems back up, and I'm not sure if lubricant might be a culprit in this.
Did u put too much lube on?

Leslieann the Lubimatrix says you must only use a tiny microscopic amount.  I can't remember exactly but I think a few drops for the whole entire keyboard was the right amount.  So I guess 1/30th drop per switch.  I donno.  I never did it myself.  I'm a LubeNewb  :p


Yeah a tiny amount is right. I squeezed a really small blob onto a piece of plastic and was surprised that it lasted me the whole board. I used a very small paintbrush and brushed over the sliders 2-3 times for a very thin film of lube, much like how Dan did it in his video in the OP.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Beherith on Sat, 26 January 2013, 06:04:52
I don't think I'd be able to do this to my Das unless I desolder every switch.
Dont give up so easily!
I desoldered every single switch (was replacing browns with reds and shortened the springs by 1 turn) and lubed them up with 205 once they were open anyway, and the lube makes an insane amount of difference.
Do get ready to spend a lot of time though, it took me 8 hours from start to finish and i wasnt slacking off! :)

Also, a very little amount of the GPL 205 is an understatement, I used less then 0.5ml for the whole board.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sordna on Sat, 26 January 2013, 14:39:43
Ouch, this is way too much time. Has anyone tried Deoxit/FaderLube spray or dropper, and just pushing down the stem and flooding the switch without opening it? It's not an expensive lube, and you can clean up what leaks on the PCB afterwards. Anyone tried this brute force method ? 
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 26 January 2013, 18:19:33
Ouch, this is way too much time. Has anyone tried Deoxit/FaderLube spray or dropper, and just pushing down the stem and flooding the switch without opening it? It's not an expensive lube, and you can clean up what leaks on the PCB afterwards. Anyone tried this brute force method ? 
yep it works just not as well
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sordna on Sat, 26 January 2013, 19:17:09
Yeah, I've flooded a couple of scratchy red switches on my Poker with general purpose oil, and had to clean the PCB afterwards because the oil leaked, but I'm debating if I want to do that to an entire keyboard, or go the tedious route of opening switches and using high tech grease. Some folks have mentioned that flooding switches with oil would eventually attract dirt and jam the switches but it's mostly speculation, not sure if anyone has actual experienced this.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Leslieann on Sat, 26 January 2013, 19:54:22
Yeah, I've flooded a couple of scratchy red switches on my Poker with general purpose oil, and had to clean the PCB afterwards because the oil leaked, but I'm debating if I want to do that to an entire keyboard, or go the tedious route of opening switches and using high tech grease. Some folks have mentioned that flooding switches with oil would eventually attract dirt and jam the switches but it's mostly speculation, not sure if anyone has actual experienced this.
Not direct experience, but I did open some year old, unlubed switches, they were pristine.
There's really very little room for dust to get in and out, plus you have a plate blocking the lower half, and the keycap covering the top half.

Unless you have fans blowing air though the keyboard while being used, dust will have a hard time getting in.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: dn on Wed, 30 January 2013, 09:08:18
Yeah, I've flooded a couple of scratchy red switches on my Poker with general purpose oil, and had to clean the PCB afterwards because the oil leaked, but I'm debating if I want to do that to an entire keyboard, or go the tedious route of opening switches and using high tech grease. Some folks have mentioned that flooding switches with oil would eventually attract dirt and jam the switches but it's mostly speculation, not sure if anyone has actual experienced this.

This is NOT a good idea, different lubricants have different conductivity properties, I once rebuilt an high performance and expensive electric motor completely cleaning and re-lubing the internals (which were running with a lot of friction), the motor now will not even turn unless you force it by hand as the lubricant is non conductive and has ruined the contact points.

Don't make the same mistake as I did!!!!! DON'T lube the contacts I say!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 30 January 2013, 17:50:52
Yeah, I've flooded a couple of scratchy red switches on my Poker with general purpose oil, and had to clean the PCB afterwards because the oil leaked, but I'm debating if I want to do that to an entire keyboard, or go the tedious route of opening switches and using high tech grease. Some folks have mentioned that flooding switches with oil would eventually attract dirt and jam the switches but it's mostly speculation, not sure if anyone has actual experienced this.

This is NOT a good idea, different lubricants have different conductivity properties, I once rebuilt an high performance and expensive electric motor completely cleaning and re-lubing the internals (which were running with a lot of friction), the motor now will not even turn unless you force it by hand as the lubricant is non conductive and has ruined the contact points.

Don't make the same mistake as I did!!!!! DON'T lube the contacts I say!

The lube is often wrongly blamed in this sort of instance.
The lube may be neutral, however it attracts impurities from dust, and bits that may come off the contact itself. The impurities can make your previously non-conductive fluid quite conductive.

In the case of a motor, the commutator and brushes throw off a lot of contaminants, the oil will trap it and short everything.


Bottom line though, don't lube your contacts.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sordna on Wed, 30 January 2013, 20:26:37
I read somewhere that Finish Line Extreme Fluoro 100% DuPont Teflon Grease (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002L5UL92) is same as Krytox 203 or 204. Anyone care to compare it to Krytox 205, if they've tried both ?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TotalChaos on Fri, 01 February 2013, 17:50:08

According to everything I have read, Cherry lubes the contact points of Cherry MX switches and that is the only part that they lube.

Since it is already allegedly lubed there is no need to relube the contacts.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jeroplane on Fri, 01 February 2013, 19:14:09

According to everything I have read, Cherry lubes the contact points of Cherry MX switches and that is the only part that they lube.

Since it is already allegedly lubed there is no need to relube the contacts.


Correct, but it seems that Cherry hasn't always done this. I have some brand new switches that were lubed on the contacts and some that weren't.

Bottom line, don't lube the contacts.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sordna on Wed, 06 February 2013, 11:45:02
For the sake of science I opened and lubed my Kinesis' thumb switches. On the left thumbcluster I put Deoxit FaderLube F100 oil, and on the right I put Finish Line Extreme Fluoro grease (same as Krytox 203 or maybe 204). I lubed the plunger sides per the instructions posted in this thread, and the spring a bit, although I doubt lubing the spring makes much difference. Initial result is similar, but we'll see how these different lubes holds up over time.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TheQsanity on Thu, 07 February 2013, 01:43:44
Fancy Fader 100%
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 19 February 2013, 17:01:13
This is what over $600 in lube looks like.

(http://i.imgur.com/HviSo1Q.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Thu, 21 February 2013, 01:03:26
Nice. Did you run a GB on those or something? So basically $40 per tube? My GPL-103 was about $45 shipped for 1oz

I'm guessing GPL 200 grease is a thinner version of the 205?
 
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: TotalChaos on Thu, 21 February 2013, 07:26:32
This is what over $600 in lube looks like.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HviSo1Q.jpg)


How many ounces / ml in each tube?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Thu, 21 February 2013, 12:20:17
Nice. Did you run a GB on those or something? So basically $40 per tube? My GPL-103 was about $45 shipped for 1oz

I'm guessing GPL 200 grease is a thinner version of the 205?

How many ounces / ml in each tube?

I ran a GB over on DT, where were you guys? Krytox GPL 200 is 100 in grease form. So yes it is thinner than 205, but it is not a thinner version of 205. They are 2 ounce tubes, and at $43.50 + shipping/paypal apiece I have made no profit. In fact I even donated €10 to DT so I am negative.

Quote from: The_Ed
I was just going over my numbers and freaking out a little... Until I realized I donated €10 to DT...

EDIT: All orders were rounded up to the nearest 50cents so there should have been a few dollars extra. Especially with the gift payments by some people. But I was negative $1.85 because I donated €10 to DT. I should have added 50cents more to every order. :))

(http://i.imgur.com/brPhsbh.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 21 February 2013, 12:22:11
^ I saw that and almost got in on it, but I want oil, not grease. Are you planning on another GB for 100/103/105?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Thu, 21 February 2013, 12:25:46
^ I saw that and almost got in on it, but I want oil, not grease. Are you planning on another GB for 100/103/105?

No, I was actually planning on another GB for the entirety of the grease series 200-207. The oils would need some more communication to get, and I would rather just do the greases that I know I can get.

I have an ounce of 106 if you want that.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sat, 23 February 2013, 04:37:15
I ran a GB over on DT, where were you guys? Krytox GPL 200 is 100 in grease form. So yes it is thinner than 205, but it is not a thinner version of 205.

Well I'm never on DT, if I'd known I would have probably bought a tube to compare 103, 200, 205, and combinations of them.

Well if 100 is a thinner form of 105, and 205 is just the grease version of the 105 oil, then how is 200 not a thinner version of 205 grease? Do you have some 205 to compare? I'm thinking this 200 grease is almost the equivalent of a mixture of 103 and 205.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Sat, 23 February 2013, 10:29:08
I ran a GB over on DT, where were you guys? Krytox GPL 200 is 100 in grease form. So yes it is thinner than 205, but it is not a thinner version of 205.

Well I'm never on DT, if I'd known I would have probably bought a tube to compare 103, 200, 205, and combinations of them.

Well if 100 is a thinner form of 105, and 205 is just the grease version of the 105 oil, then how is 200 not a thinner version of 205 grease? Do you have some 205 to compare? I'm thinking this 200 grease is almost the equivalent of a mixture of 103 and 205.

I am mostly on DT nowadays. There will likely be another lube GB soon.

100 is NOT a thinner form of 105. 100-107 are just the 'rankings' of 8 different oils. 200-207 are the grease forms of their corresponding 100-107 oils. A mixture of 103 and 205 would give you something completely different than 200. And yes I do have 205 to compare.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mashby on Wed, 27 February 2013, 17:46:42
I'm in the process of building up a Poker and I'm slowly making my way through the thread to read every post, but I couldn't resist asking a couple of TL;DR questions. I hope you don't mind.

1. How Often Do You Need To Lube?
Another way of saying it -- how long does it last? There are several mods that I can do to the switches and/or the plate so that I can get back into the switches without desoldering, but I was just curious if it's even needed. To get back into the switches that is.

I'm sure a lot depends on how much you use your board, but I'm just curious what the average is.

2. Are Blues Worth Lubing?
From what I've read thus far, it sounds like MX-Blues are the most troublesome when it comes to lubing them due to the click. Is it worth going through the trouble?

Thanks in advance and hopefully my questions can help others that are still learning, like me.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 27 February 2013, 17:55:13
I'm in the process of building up a Poker and I'm slowly making my way through the thread to read every post, but I couldn't resist asking a couple of TL;DR questions. I hope you don't mind.

1. How Often Do You Need To Lube?
Another way of saying it -- how long does it last? There are several mods that I can do to the switches and/or the plate so that I can get back into the switches without desoldering, but I was just curious if it's even needed. To get back into the switches that is.

I'm sure a lot depends on how much you use your board, but I'm just curious what the average is.

2. Are Blues Worth Lubing?
From what I've read thus far, it sounds like MX-Blues are the most troublesome when it comes to lubing them due to the click. Is it worth going through the trouble?

Thanks in advance and hopefully my questions can help others that are still learning, like me.

1) I think it depends on the lube used. I would think a thicker grease would last longer than a dry film or a light oil. Since lubing switches is relatively new, I don't think anyone has actually needed to re-lube due to use

2) Blues aren't worth owning much less lubing (lol, I hate blues).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 27 February 2013, 18:58:51
Blues aren't worth owning much less lubing (lol, I hate blues).

I might need to put that in my signature. :D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Wed, 27 February 2013, 19:03:07
Some oils and greases degrade over time. Krytox does not, so if you use Krytox you'll never have to relube because of degradation. I prefer the krytox greases as they stay where you put them, unlike the krytox oils that get EVERYWHERE... I will probably start my second Krytox GB in a month or so. All 8 greases 200-207 will be in it.
Title: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Gupgup on Wed, 27 February 2013, 19:05:09
Some oils and greases degrade over time. Krytox does not, so if you use Krytox you'll never have to relube because of degradation. I prefer the krytox greases as they stay where you put them, unlike the krytox oils that get EVERYWHERE... I will probably start my second Krytox GB in a month or so. All 8 greases 200-207 will be in it.

What lube would you recommend as a light oil, for clicky switches?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Caaaarrrt on Wed, 27 February 2013, 19:06:44
Some oils and greases degrade over time. Krytox does not, so if you use Krytox you'll never have to relube because of degradation. I prefer the krytox greases as they stay where you put them, unlike the krytox oils that get EVERYWHERE... I will probably start my second Krytox GB in a month or so. All 8 greases 200-207 will be in it.

Do you have a personal preference of the Krytox greases? I have only used 205, are any significantly better than another or is it worth trying out different ones?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Wed, 27 February 2013, 19:06:49
What lube would you recommend as a light oil, for clicky switches?

It is 'usually' recommended to NOT lube clicky switches...
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 27 February 2013, 19:10:05
It just takes some precision lubing to not get any between the white moving part and the top part that stops it from moving. Extremely small amounts! You'd want to lube the "leaf" and the bottom legs that stick out too. Those parts you don't have to worry about since it won't prevent the white part from sticking.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Wed, 27 February 2013, 19:10:44
Do you have a personal preference of the Krytox greases? I have only used 205, are any significantly better than another or is it worth trying out different ones?

I just did a GB for 200, but I have not had the time to try it out yet though. I just shipped the last of them off yesterday. I expect that I will like it a lot more than my 205 though as it is less viscous. It's all up to personal preference though, so try away.
Title: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Gupgup on Wed, 27 February 2013, 19:13:55
What lube would you recommend as a light oil, for clicky switches?

It is 'usually' recommended to NOT lube clicky switches...

Alrighty so if it is recommended, which would you use :p
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Caaaarrrt on Wed, 27 February 2013, 19:20:22
Do you have a personal preference of the Krytox greases? I have only used 205, are any significantly better than another or is it worth trying out different ones?

I just did a GB for 200, but I have not had the time to try it out yet though. I just shipped the last of them off yesterday. I expect that I will like it a lot more than my 205 though as it is less viscous. It's all up to personal preference though, so try away.

Ah yeah fair enough, that's what I would expect too. Now I have to decide whether it's worth getting in on your next GB or just being happy with my 205 lol.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 27 February 2013, 19:23:39
This was done last year, but I finally uploaded it. Might help if you're doing it for the first time or just want to be thorough. I'll upload one like this for lubing costar and cherry stabilizers as well after I edit the video.


Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 27 February 2013, 19:35:13
1. How Often Do You Need To Lube?
Another way of saying it -- how long does it last? There are several mods that I can do to the switches and/or the plate so that I can get back into the switches without desoldering, but I was just curious if it's even needed. To get back into the switches that is.

I'm sure a lot depends on how much you use your board, but I'm just curious what the average is.

2. Are Blues Worth Lubing?
From what I've read thus far, it sounds like MX-Blues are the most troublesome when it comes to lubing them due to the click. Is it worth going through the trouble?
1. There is too many variables to say.
How much typing do you do, what type of lube, what type of switch, what do you hope to accomplish with it.

If you lube the switch contact, it will eventually wipe away, however sliders and springs should stay lubed for a long time.

2. See below.
Is it worth it? hard to say.

It is 'usually' recommended to NOT lube clicky switches...
You can lube them just fine.
However, you only want to grease the spring ends, and use a very light lube on the slider tracks, nothing on the switch contact itself.

Depending on the lube used, it will dull the tactile feel for a few days until the lube settle in.
Lube will reduce friction by about 5grams of pressure at the activation point and the greased springs reduce noise ever so slightly, it's a lot of work, for little gain.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Glod on Wed, 27 February 2013, 21:23:23
This was done last year, but I finally uploaded it. Might help if you're doing it for the first time or just want to be thorough. I'll upload one like this for lubing costar and cherry stabilizers as well after I edit the video.


thank you for these videos always
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mark_thaddeus on Tue, 05 March 2013, 04:47:01
I was looking for a video showing the long and easy way of lubing and I stumbled on to this thread, thanks for the video! Made my life easier!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Michael on Tue, 12 March 2013, 13:53:16
Not a super detailed guide, just a quick photo I took and added some lube points for Cherry ML switches. Essentially, there are several points of friction where the stem meets the housing that needs to be lubed, as well as the inside of the housing that the stem comes in contact with:

(http://i.imgur.com/3MCoTcc.jpg)

I used GPL 100 for this.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: islisis on Mon, 01 April 2013, 01:54:21
For the sake of science I opened and lubed my Kinesis' thumb switches. On the left thumbcluster I put Deoxit FaderLube F100 oil, and on the right I put Finish Line Extreme Fluoro grease (same as Krytox 203 or maybe 204).

Hi Sordna, any update to this?
Times like this I really regret the non-replaceable stems in the finger wells  :(
Can anyone think of an alternative way to lubricate kinesis finger switches?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sordna on Mon, 01 April 2013, 09:12:13
Well, my conclusion was that the fluoro grease is better than the faderlube oil. However neither made a huge difference, so I' might try other stuff as well.
The only way to lube the kinesis finger switches (which can't be easily removed) is to push down the stem and flood the switch with oil, which is rather messy.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: islisis on Mon, 01 April 2013, 09:36:27
Hmm, I have faderlube so that was the first thing I was going to try. What difference were you hoping for? I have found the thumb keys in particular to be quite rough on certain angles of activation...

Sounds like flooding the switch like that wouldn't come recommend :D
Looking forward to any developments :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sordna on Mon, 01 April 2013, 10:56:09
If thumb keys are your main concern, you can open those up easily and lube them. The difference I was hoping for, is eliminate friction. But I can still feel (and hear) friction. My reds are still not as smooth as say my Goldtouch rubber domes (or a topre board I once tried).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Thu, 04 April 2013, 15:49:16
The last of my lubing uploads, Costar stabilizers, Cherry stabilizers, and ML switches.




Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Glod on Mon, 15 April 2013, 03:12:30
i have some huge huge respect for WFD and others here that lube and sticker boards multiple boards.

Did my first lube and sticker and it took over 4.5 hours for me for less than 80 keys for the ergo dox. But it was worth it! Lubed Reds are "Enhanced Reds" and just a pleasure to type on and quieter.

103 and 205 seems to be a good mix but it sure looks disgusting mixed up

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8529/8648045024_79900b54b2.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/8648045024/)
(yes i know my brush is a bit too big, i was impatient)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:29:00
I could use your advice about lubricating my keyboard (or not).

I currently own a CM Storm Trigger with MX Browns--it's fairly new.  The keys feel great, but they do have that slight friction, going down--some of the switches have it more noticeably.  Pushing a key down slowly, I feel friction past actuation point.  Has that teeth-grinding quality--difficult to describe.  It's not audible, but I can feel it.

Does this imply my switches need additional lubrication?  Or is that normal for MX Browns?

Moreover, is it going to be a pain to lubricate if my switches are plate-mounted?  Having looked at the guide on the first page, it looks like I need to actually disassemble the entire keyboard to lubricate properly?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:38:44
I could use your advice about lubricating my keyboard (or not).

I currently own a CM Storm Trigger with MX Browns--it's fairly new.  The keys feel great, but they do have that slight friction, going down--some of the switches have it more noticeably.  Pushing a key down slowly, I feel friction past actuation point.  Has that teeth-grinding quality--difficult to describe.  It's not audible, but I can feel it.

Does this imply my switches need additional lubrication?  Or is that normal for MX Browns?

Moreover, is it going to be a pain to lubricate if my switches are plate-mounted?  Having looked at the guide on the first page, it looks like I need to actually disassemble the entire keyboard to lubricate properly?

Try and break them in a little and see if that feeling goes away.  Sometimes just sitting there and actuating the switch repeatedly will make it feel better.  If that doesn't help and you don't want to desolder everything and open up every switch, you can try the Ripster method of lubing and spray some DeoxIT Fader into the switches.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 10 May 2013, 17:16:50
I could use your advice about lubricating my keyboard (or not).

I currently own a CM Storm Trigger with MX Browns--it's fairly new.  The keys feel great, but they do have that slight friction, going down--some of the switches have it more noticeably.  Pushing a key down slowly, I feel friction past actuation point.  Has that teeth-grinding quality--difficult to describe.  It's not audible, but I can feel it.

Does this imply my switches need additional lubrication?  Or is that normal for MX Browns?

Moreover, is it going to be a pain to lubricate if my switches are plate-mounted?  Having looked at the guide on the first page, it looks like I need to actually disassemble the entire keyboard to lubricate properly?

Try and break them in a little and see if that feeling goes away.  Sometimes just sitting there and actuating the switch repeatedly will make it feel better.  If that doesn't help and you don't want to desolder everything and open up every switch, you can try the Ripster method of lubing and spray some DeoxIT Fader into the switches.

Thank you.  I've been using the keyboard for a few weeks now, and even the commonly used switches are still scratchy / have audible friction.  If that's normal, I'll let it go.  Otherwise, not sure if I should break apart my board for full lubrication yet, as it's still under full warranty, and it seems like I just chose the wrong keyboard for all the things I want to do (not modding friendly, etc.)   Would love to swap it for something else now =/

I've looked for DeoxIT Fader spray on this site and have not found anything by Ripster about it.  Would you mind giving me a pointer, please?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 10 May 2013, 21:03:55
Ripster was perma-banned, and all his posts and wikis were deleted. You will probably find it on Reddit or his Imgur account -> http://ripster.imgur.com/ (http://ripster.imgur.com/)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 10 May 2013, 23:43:17
Ripster was perma-banned, and all his posts and wikis were deleted. You will probably find it on Reddit or his Imgur account -> http://ripster.imgur.com/ (http://ripster.imgur.com/)

Thank you much.  I guess I'll contact him on OCN and ask about this spray lubrication deal, as it's very attractive at the moment.  I have a feeling I'll end up doing a full-on diligent lubrication eventually anyway, as I get very picky about doing things right, but for now it would be a good start!

General question about stock keyboard switches though: do they come pre-lubricated, or do manufacturers just leave them plain?  Mechanical switches are supposed to last for a long time, and so I'm surprised they don't have good lubrication to start with when pre-installed.  Or maybe it's just some brands that don't lubricate?  Sorry, probably a very newbie question :(
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 10 May 2013, 23:49:46
Thank you much.  I guess I'll contact him on OCN and ask about this spray lubrication deal, as it's very attractive at the moment.  I have a feeling I'll end up doing a full-on diligent lubrication eventually anyway, as I get very picky about doing things right, but for now it would be a good start!

General question about stock keyboard switches though: do they come pre-lubricated, or do manufacturers just leave them plain?  Mechanical switches are supposed to last for a long time, and so I'm surprised they don't have good lubrication to start with when pre-installed.  Or maybe it's just some brands that don't lubricate?  Sorry, probably a very newbie question :(

Last I saw, he was banned on OCN as well.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: dndlmx on Tue, 14 May 2013, 18:50:12
Was this ripster fellow the resident epic troll here at GH, or something?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 14 May 2013, 20:27:41
No, he was our god.

(http://i.imgur.com/eBeVM.jpg)

In Helvetica we trust. R.I.P.ster
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 14 May 2013, 20:33:34
ripster was the self-proclaimed #1 Keyboard Expert on the Planet. He had written or contributed to most of the articles in the previous wiki. He had a couple of epic feuds with keyboardlover and harrison. Just before he got himself permabanned, he became the resident epic troll for a short time. He now hangs out at reddit and complains about Geekhack.

The loss of that wiki (due to the R00TW0RM attack), was probably the biggest loss this forum has ever suffered.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 14 May 2013, 21:04:21
I swear he must have written ~90% of the previous wiki. All those hours, aaaand it's gone... Was really bugs me is that all his posts were deleted a few months after GH came back. So if you look at any of the old threads, they no longer make sense.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: dndlmx on Tue, 14 May 2013, 21:23:44
Poof.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Aranair on Fri, 17 May 2013, 08:27:24
mm, by any chance, is there a similar topre lubrication guide ?:P
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Aranair on Fri, 17 May 2013, 09:40:31
mmm, just got to lube some browns with gpl205. Maybe its a little too heavy D: It feels almost like red switches after lubing!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 17 May 2013, 09:42:25
mmm, just got to lube some browns with gpl205. Maybe its a little too heavy D: It feels almost like red switches after lubing!

That's how they should feel. No more scratchy!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Jocelyn on Fri, 17 May 2013, 09:44:32
mmm, just got to lube some browns with gpl205. Maybe its a little too heavy D: It feels almost like red switches after lubing!

That's how they should feel. No more scratchy!

This^ Even my Ergo Clears feel almost linear, but they feel lovely :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Aranair on Fri, 17 May 2013, 09:46:17
yeah I suppose, but I do wish it was smooth BUT still tactile enough lol. Yeah maybe I should try Ergo Clears lubed lol.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Jocelyn on Fri, 17 May 2013, 09:53:48
yeah I suppose, but I do wish it was smooth BUT still tactile enough lol. Yeah maybe I should try Ergo Clears lubed lol.

Lol you totally SHOULD! There is definitely still tactility, but it feels so much better now and they're so much quieter :)

Edit - What I should have said was that lubed ergo clears are still more tactile than non-lubed browns imo.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 17 May 2013, 09:54:22
Use less grease in your mixture and you will get the smooth tactile feeling. Use even less grease and you will get this amazing crisp feeling. RO59 is good **** :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Aranair on Fri, 17 May 2013, 09:56:28
i can't get hold of 105 oil so i'm using 205 only. Maybe its a mistake damn lol.

...Time to look for some clear switches for my poker ...
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 17 May 2013, 11:17:55
Have you guys lubricated "new" black switches, including the spring?  If so, how would you describe the change (if there was a noticeable change)?  Wondering if lubricating would make them a tad easier to press.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: godly_music on Mon, 20 May 2013, 15:14:44
I used PTFE (Teflon) to lube brand new MX Blacks and it actually made them stiffer. I wouldn't touch new switches.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 20 May 2013, 15:39:55
I used PTFE (Teflon) to lube brand new MX Blacks and it actually made them stiffer. I wouldn't touch new switches.

Good to know--thanks!  I wonder if its because that lube has thick consistency and fills tiny unworn spaces to make overall movement more difficult, even if reducing friction on the moving parts.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 21 May 2013, 06:24:42
Have you guys lubricated "new" black switches, including the spring?  If so, how would you describe the change (if there was a noticeable change)?  Wondering if lubricating would make them a tad easier to press.
Lubrication very rarely makes them easier to press. That isn't the attraction. Lubing makes the action smoother. If you use grease then you will definitely notice that the switch is stiffer, if you use an oil or a mixture or an oil & grease then it only feel a little heavier, if at all.

New blacks do feel much smoother after lubricating. Incredibly smooth, and incredibly nice to press. If you want a lighter version just use reds.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Masterchief79 on Tue, 21 May 2013, 09:25:28
I have a 1984-1986 keyboard with prototype blacks here (no cherry logo on them). They are extremely scratchy and have a lot higher press-resistance if you don't hit the cap right in the middle. I was thinking about lubricating them, but I'm not sure yet... They are plate-mounted, so I would have to solder them out, and on the other hand I also don't want to ruin my nice old vintage keyboard by changing the typing feeling^^
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 21 May 2013, 10:04:31
No I definitely don't want reds.  Im very much enamored with the feel of blacks after trying them out on an acquaintance's Steelseries 7g, where they felt worn in and very smooth.  No noticeable Grundy friction.  They seemed easier to press than another MX black keyboard I tried briefly at PAX East, but then the latter was brand new.  I was just wondering if lubricating would help with that smooth worn-in feeling that required a slightly lighter touch, but I guess it's all about actually using the switches for a good long while.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Aranair on Sat, 25 May 2013, 08:54:39
quick question again: is a mix of 105 oil and 205 grease suitable for springs/stem or is the mixture too viscous still?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 25 May 2013, 09:04:56
quick question again: is a mix of 105 oil and 205 grease suitable for springs/stem or is the mixture too viscous still?

For springs you want only the oil. And since Krytox oil is expensive, most people use other oils for those, Victorinox multi tool oil, for example.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Aranair on Sat, 25 May 2013, 09:08:02
oh well, i don't know if i was dreaming or what when i bought the 105. I wanted the 103 but bought the 105 instead /sigh

I guess i'll just make do with the expensive one (lol)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 13 June 2013, 18:09:52
What do you use to clean Costar stabilizer bars prior to lubricating?  Alcohol is okay for that?  Are those bars mostly rust-proof?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: fateswarm on Fri, 14 June 2013, 19:34:54
Let's assume I have a switch with a LED on it that probably needs disoldering to be taken apart and let's assume I will not do it.

If I drop a couple of droplets above the switch while the top of it is depressed (oil entering the caved-in area around the main 'cross'), what areas will the oil be able to access after I press the switch a few times?

Will it reach all areas around the top? Will it reach the spring on the inside?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: gnubag on Sat, 15 June 2013, 14:05:00

If I drop a couple of droplets above the switch while the top of it is depressed (oil entering the caved-in area around the main 'cross'), what areas will the oil be able to access after I press the switch a few times?

Will it reach all areas around the top? Will it reach the spring on the inside?

1. maybe

2. not until you flood the switch
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: fateswarm on Sat, 15 June 2013, 15:21:45
Hrm, that's encouraging because I have developed the following brutal method:

If it's flooded, blowing compressed air in it pushes everything out.

It's still safe for the mechanism itself.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Nakapfao on Sun, 16 June 2013, 16:51:15
Slick guide, thanks ^_^
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Glod on Sun, 16 June 2013, 22:37:27
Hrm, that's encouraging because I have developed the following brutal method:

If it's flooded, blowing compressed air in it pushes everything out.

It's still safe for the mechanism itself.

you can try it on a test switch but i doubt it will work, you really need to disassemble the switch assembly to properly lube. if you are going to go through the trouble to lubricate i highly suggest learning to desolder and solder, its seriously not hard when it comes to switches and leds; just don't apply too much heat or too little heat and its easy. in fact i would say doing the dis assembly of the switch and lubricating is more work than desoldering and soldering.

--

on another note i am lubricating right now a race with reds and im trying a different method for the springs, for the stem/sliders i used 205/103 mix with a fine paint brush and then for the springs instead of using machine oil i used the silicone lube that dries with a film, it seems to work fine. maybe not the full effect that machine oil would do but it does soften the spring's contact with the assembly. I was just afraid of over-lubricating the whole assembly which i think i did for a few switches on my first lubrication job i did on my ergodox #1.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: calavera on Sun, 16 June 2013, 22:53:37
Quick and dirty way to lube springs is to put all of them into a plastic bag, add few drops of lube, seal with air in it as if it were a ballon. Commence shaking the crap out of it. :P
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Glod on Sun, 16 June 2013, 22:57:53
Quick and dirty way to lube springs is to put all of them into a plastic bag, add few drops of lube, seal with air in it as if it were a ballon. Commence shaking the crap out of it. :P

i did a similar thing with the silicone lube that drys into a film, i put them in a small Rubbermaid container like you would put leftovers in and then applied lube, shifted it around and then let the springs sit for a day to dry, they were then lubricated via the dry film. Again, it is not the same effect as the machine oil but it does lubricate the spring at the point of contact with the assembly of the switch. its obviously something to try and decide not exactly a recommendation.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: fateswarm on Mon, 17 June 2013, 17:07:19
The issue with disoldering a switch with a LED isn't exactly knowledge but if it's worth the work needed (and the connection points are at least 4 for each switch, because of the extra LED). I'm not even experienced, but even if I were, I find it not worth the trouble if it has to be done on one hundred keys.

If flooding with any method works I prefer it even if it's messy.

If I were making it something from scratch etc. etc. then it might seem worth it. It's about personal priorities.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: VesperSAINT on Mon, 17 June 2013, 17:11:29
The issue with disoldering a switch with a LED isn't exactly knowledge but if it's worth the work needed (and the connection points are at least 4 for each switch, because of the extra LED). I'm not even experienced, but even if I were, I find it not worth the trouble if it has to be done on one hundred keys.

If flooding with any method works I prefer it even if it's messy.

This. I sold my Ducky Shine II with Clears for this exact reason. Desoldering LED's is such a pain in the ass because not only is there 2 extra points per switch, they are also smaller and much harder to desolder.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: ksm123 on Tue, 18 June 2013, 05:52:17
Can somebody show me, how to disassemble a switch on ErgoDox without desoldering (on Massdrop's acrylic plate).
What tool do you use to open "snaps" in the switch?

OK I see it, my wrong, I was trying to pry open the switch from below. The correct way to do it is to use 2,4mm flat screwdriver as a lever. You insert it (verticaly) into side of top switch housing, where there is a "socket" prepared for it. The rest is as simple as YouTube video shows it is.

I used FinishLine Extreme Fluoro on stems, I distributed it with brush. Now my MX Clears feel real smooth :-)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 18 June 2013, 07:06:29
Can somebody show me, how to disassemble a switch on ErgoDox without desoldering (on Massdrop's acrylic plate).
What tool do you use to open "snaps" in the switch?

I'm not sure this is possible, unless the ergodox has the extra cutout for the switch to be opened. Most boards do not.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: ksm123 on Tue, 18 June 2013, 07:33:46
There are cutouts on the sides, but acrylic plate is much thicker than metal plates.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Glod on Wed, 19 June 2013, 03:56:41
Can somebody show me, how to disassemble a switch on ErgoDox without desoldering (on Massdrop's acrylic plate).
What tool do you use to open "snaps" in the switch?

I'm not sure this is possible, unless the ergodox has the extra cutout for the switch to be opened. Most boards do not.

It has those extra notches so the switch can be opened. It was a nice touch litster put in his case design.

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: kaiserreich on Tue, 25 June 2013, 05:47:22
Victorinox oil is so hard to get around my place.
Any known problems with using Singer oil? (Sewing machine mineral oil)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Fri, 28 June 2013, 18:28:01
I think it might be ok. Maybe even victorinox oil is just a glorified version of sewing machine oil. Can't really confirm this because we don't know the composition of what the oil actually is. As long as it's relatively high viscosity, plastic and metal safe, it should be fine.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: cgbuen on Sun, 07 July 2013, 04:05:20
I haven't found a more recent discussion on lubing stations other than the small lubing station IC thread, but I just wanted to share my makeshift one:

(http://assets.christopherbuenaventura.com/img/keyboards/lubing-station-01.jpg)

For several months now, I've been using WFD's universal plate as a lube station. I used to have to fit in the switch bottoms on all the ends/throughout the whole plate for it to balance, as they'd stand on the pins. Then I'd have to lay it all on top of something (usually a thin piece of plastic) so the pins wouldn't scratch up my workspace.

Somehow it only hit me tonight that I could lay it atop a TKL top cover for better results. If you've already opened up a board for servicing, you could just use that. Or if you're like me, you could use the branded QFR top cover that you never knew what to do with (since I got unbranded one from CM's store several months ago).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 07 July 2013, 04:06:56
Hah I wish I ordered an extra plate to do that with. Smart!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: gnubag on Sun, 07 July 2013, 04:38:59
Hah I wish I ordered an extra plate to do that with. Smart!

maybe he still has some, pm him :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 07 July 2013, 04:39:41
Nah I'm good for now, I won't be building any new boards soon I don't think.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 19 July 2013, 11:26:44
How many of you put some oil into this depression where the stem travels:

(http://i.imgur.com/BggYuBU.jpg)

I saw on WFD's wonderful lubing video that it's good to put high viscosity oil in there (like Victorinox), but I'm wondering if this will slow down the stem movement.  Or is that viscosity not enough for that effect vs. spring stiffness?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 19 July 2013, 11:32:42
I haven't found a more recent discussion on lubing stations other than the small lubing station IC thread, but I just wanted to share my makeshift one:

Show Image
(http://assets.christopherbuenaventura.com/img/keyboards/lubing-station-01.jpg)


For several months now, I've been using WFD's universal plate as a lube station. I used to have to fit in the switch bottoms on all the ends/throughout the whole plate for it to balance, as they'd stand on the pins. Then I'd have to lay it all on top of something (usually a thin piece of plastic) so the pins wouldn't scratch up my workspace.

Somehow it only hit me tonight that I could lay it atop a TKL top cover for better results. If you've already opened up a board for servicing, you could just use that. Or if you're like me, you could use the branded QFR top cover that you never knew what to do with (since I got unbranded one from CM's store several months ago).

I plan on doing something like this but was thinking of using some rubber feet or stand offs but never thought to just throw a QFR top underneath!!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mashby on Fri, 19 July 2013, 13:52:41
How many of you put some oil into this depression where the stem travels:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/BggYuBU.jpg)


I saw on WFD's wonderful lubing video that it's good to put high viscosity oil in there (like Victorinox), but I'm wondering if this will slow down the stem movement.  Or is that viscosity not enough for that effect vs. spring stiffness?

I've followed WFD's video and done that on both reds and blacks and had no issues. Like WFD, I also lube the stem with the same oil.


Lubing MX-White
Last night I tried a couple of different methods of lubing MX-White switches and had mixed results.
   - Lubing the side rails killed the click.
   - Lubing the actuator on the clicking element killed the click
   - Lubing the post hole and stem reduced the click
 
Ultimately, I just don't think it's worth it. Either I don't have the patience, or the right mix and since MX-White have a softer click, I just didn't want to spend the time.

Anyone else have any success lubing MX-White switches?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 19 July 2013, 13:54:21
How many of you put some oil into this depression where the stem travels:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/BggYuBU.jpg)


I saw on WFD's wonderful lubing video that it's good to put high viscosity oil in there (like Victorinox), but I'm wondering if this will slow down the stem movement.  Or is that viscosity not enough for that effect vs. spring stiffness?

I've followed WFD's video and done that on both reds and blacks and had no issues. Like WFD, I also lube the stem with the same oil.


Lubing MX-White
Last night I tried a couple of different methods of lubing MX-White switches and had mixed results.
   - Lubing the side rails killed the click.
   - Lubing the actuator on the clicking element killed the click
   - Lubing the post hole and stem reduced the click
 
Ultimately, I just don't think it's worth it. Either I don't have the patience, or the right mix and since MX-White have a softer click, I just didn't want to spend the time.

Anyone else have any success lubing MX-White switches?

Don't they come pre-lubed to some degree from the factory?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mashby on Fri, 19 July 2013, 13:56:13
Anyone else have any success lubing MX-White switches?

Don't they come pre-lubed to some degree from the factory?

There did feel to be a little bit of a residue of something on the spring and clicky part, but it's hard to say definitively. I'm installing switch stickers, so I figured while I was in there, I could give some tests a go.  ;D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 19 July 2013, 14:10:53
How many of you put some oil into this depression where the stem travels:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/BggYuBU.jpg)


I saw on WFD's wonderful lubing video that it's good to put high viscosity oil in there (like Victorinox), but I'm wondering if this will slow down the stem movement.  Or is that viscosity not enough for that effect vs. spring stiffness?

I've followed WFD's video and done that on both reds and blacks and had no issues. Like WFD, I also lube the stem with the same oil.

He only used the high viscosity oil on the springs and the inside of the hole in the bottom part of the housing.  For the rest, he used the Krytox mixture, like the stem sides and front.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: gnubag on Fri, 19 July 2013, 14:38:15
How many of you put some oil into this depression where the stem travels:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/BggYuBU.jpg)


I saw on WFD's wonderful lubing video that it's good to put high viscosity oil in there (like Victorinox), but I'm wondering if this will slow down the stem movement.  Or is that viscosity not enough for that effect vs. spring stiffness?

I've followed WFD's video and done that on both reds and blacks and had no issues. Like WFD, I also lube the stem with the same oil.


Lubing MX-White
Last night I tried a couple of different methods of lubing MX-White switches and had mixed results.
   - Lubing the side rails killed the click.
   - Lubing the actuator on the clicking element killed the click
   - Lubing the post hole and stem reduced the click
 
Ultimately, I just don't think it's worth it. Either I don't have the patience, or the right mix and since MX-White have a softer click, I just didn't want to spend the time.

Anyone else have any success lubing MX-White switches?

I have tried some very low viscosity sewing machine oil on blue stems. it worked for me when I was only lubing the railes and the hole where the stem is moving in. almost no change in sound.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 19 July 2013, 15:59:51
How many of you put some oil into this depression where the stem travels:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/BggYuBU.jpg)


I saw on WFD's wonderful lubing video that it's good to put high viscosity oil in there (like Victorinox), but I'm wondering if this will slow down the stem movement.  Or is that viscosity not enough for that effect vs. spring stiffness?

I put Victorinox oil in the hole. It doesn't slow down the stem movement at all. The main reason for doing it is to reduce the bottoming out sound and I love the soft sound it produces. HOWEVER, I've had experiences where if you put too much oil in there, the stem will make a popping sound when going into the hole because of the bubble being formed and pushed down until it pops because of too much oil in there. It doesn't slow down any movement of the stem but it can throw you off when you feel the slight pressure build up as you press down until it pops... it's actually kind of nice feeling :)) but the inconsistency would throw you off. It does eventually go away though, which I assume is a result of the oil being pressed out and distributed around.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 19 July 2013, 21:14:38
Just don't put EK mechlube in the hole... God help you if you do... (Yes, I was the poor sod who tried putting EK Mechlube in my capslock switch over a year ago...) Thin oils are just fine, but it isn't really necessary or noticeable.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: turtle on Tue, 13 August 2013, 01:20:52
I am in the process of lubing, plate, and stickering  on my cm qfr w/ ghetto greens but only have the kryptox 205 grease. I see the guide don't recommend it with clickys stems but wondering if anyone tried it. Planning to do it since i got it sitting at my desk. What  other recommendation would you guys recommend for set up. Thanks.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 13 August 2013, 01:26:38
I am in the process of lubing, plate, and stickering  on my cm qfr w/ ghetto greens but only have the kryptox 205 grease. I see the guide don't recommend it with clickys stems but wondering if anyone tried it. Planning to do it since i got it sitting at my desk. What  other recommendation would you guys recommend for set up. Thanks.

I've done it for keyboard science. DON'T DO IT. Why? From my experience, you'll lose all clicking and it'll just feel broken, and I only lubed the sides of the stems and not even the slide itself! The bad-feels you get is almost identical to when you get switches that won't click on a clicky keyboard (those that have felt this issue know the true heart ache). Once you've lubed them, you'll have to clean all the stems and replace the switch housing because you can't even clean those, which might even mean you might have to desolder all your switches out for new ones... I really do highly recommend you don't lube your clicky switch.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Grim Fandango on Tue, 13 August 2013, 01:59:21
Thanks for this guide. I am contemplating lubing at least one of my keyboards, but I am not sure whether I would like the result. At least now I know how to do it without messing it up.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: turtle on Tue, 13 August 2013, 07:58:09
I am in the process of lubing, plate, and stickering  on my cm qfr w/ ghetto greens but only have the kryptox 205 grease. I see the guide don't recommend it with clickys stems but wondering if anyone tried it. Planning to do it since i got it sitting at my desk. What  other recommendation would you guys recommend for set up. Thanks.

I've done it for keyboard science. DON'T DO IT. Why? From my experience, you'll lose all clicking and it'll just feel broken, and I only lubed the sides of the stems and not even the slide itself! The bad-feels you get is almost identical to when you get switches that won't click on a clicky keyboard (those that have felt this issue know the true heart ache). Once you've lubed them, you'll have to clean all the stems and replace the switch housing because you can't even clean those, which might even mean you might have to desolder all your switches out for new ones... I really do highly recommend you don't lube your clicky switch.

Thanks for your input! are you referring to just kryptox 205 or lubing them in general?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 13 August 2013, 08:11:03
Krytox 200 (the thinnest of the krytox greases) kills the click, and even the krytox oils have been known to kill the click. That is why there is the consensus that if you have clicky switches you shouldn't lube them. The tiniest amount of lube is enough to slow down the click slider enough for it to no longer click.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 13 August 2013, 09:01:50
all the krytox greases have the same viscosity.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: turtle on Tue, 13 August 2013, 11:09:07
Okay, I'll leave my ghetto greens alone. Thank you all =]
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 13 August 2013, 15:02:48
all the krytox greases have the same viscosity.

No they don't... I have 200 and 205, and their viscosities are completely different. The lower the number the thinner the grease/oil.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mellohello on Wed, 14 August 2013, 20:54:09
Can anyone comment on using sprays on plate mounted keyboards? I've had my MX Black Quickfire Rapid for something like a year and would prefer to get rid of that scratchy feeling. I guess I just press down the stem and spray. Is this method long-lasting/effective?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 14 August 2013, 21:15:55
Can anyone comment on using sprays on plate mounted keyboards? I've had my MX Black Quickfire Rapid for something like a year and would prefer to get rid of that scratchy feeling. I guess I just press down the stem and spray. Is this method long-lasting/effective?

Thanks.

Its not really a recommended method.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mellohello on Wed, 14 August 2013, 21:19:44
K :(

Thank you.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mellohello on Wed, 14 August 2013, 22:23:48
Another question: I want to lube the stabilizers at least. My brother seems to have some bike cleaning kit:
http://muc-off.com/en/stage-3-shine/22-wet-lube.html?category=bicycle
http://muc-off.com/en/stage-3-shine/21-dry-ptfe-chain-lube.html?category=bicycle

Do either of those seem OK to use? The wet lube at least says "no solvents". Sound OK?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: VesperSAINT on Wed, 14 August 2013, 22:25:55
Another question: I want to lube the stabilizers at least. My brother seems to have some bike cleaning kit:
http://muc-off.com/en/stage-3-shine/22-wet-lube.html?category=bicycle
http://muc-off.com/en/stage-3-shine/21-dry-ptfe-chain-lube.html?category=bicycle

Do either of those seem OK to use? The wet lube at least says "no solvents". Sound OK?

This is cheap and works wonders for stabilizers:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000XBH9HI/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new&qid=1376537130&sr=8-1
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mellohello on Wed, 14 August 2013, 23:00:44
i just want to know if "no solvents" means safe, because if so i might as well just use the stuff i have

edit: nvm, i opened it and it's really watery which seems unsafe. i also just found some lithium grease but it's 50/50 that it could be mineral based, so not taking chances.

i'm in the uk so i can't find the stuff you've linked but i'll buy some stuff that says plastic safe on it.

thanks.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: deazncy on Thu, 15 August 2013, 14:56:54
Pictures are dead?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: The_Ed on Thu, 15 August 2013, 15:37:37
Looks like MMB deleted them, which likely means that a mod would have to restore them seeing as MMB's account has been semi-deleted.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: rknize on Wed, 21 August 2013, 13:31:53
I just wanted to post here that I finally gave my first set of switches (clear stems with Originative 55g springs) the full Krytox/Victorinox lubrication treatment.  This was for the freshly-built grey LZ-GH that you might have seen at KeyCon 2013 (it had R4 sphericals on it).  On previous ergo-clear boards, I had just used DuPont Teflon Silicone Lubricant to prevent sticking.

I went through the full process just so that I could make a good comparison between the DuPont and Krytox/Victorinox methods.  While is it very time consuming, it does make a difference and I do like the results.  The DuPont treatment takes the edge off of the scratchiness and prevents sticky or slow return on ergo-clears.  The Krytox further smooths the scratchy nature of the Cherry design and dampens the switch a bit, which gives the illusion that is it not as sloppy as it really is.  Can some steps be skipped?  Probably.  I don't think that lubricating both the base and the stem is needed and I am not sure that oiling the springs actually does anything.  I will probably skip one or both of these on the next set I do.

The keyboard does feel a bit like the 45g Topre.  Less mushy (good) but more sloppy (bad) than a real Topre.

I haven't read through this entire topic, but I did follow most of the steps of the OP and what WFD has shown in his videos.  I used a 50/50 mix of Krytox GPL 205 and 103.  The resulting goo seems to be just the right viscosity for a lot of uses, including stabilizers.  I stole a small watercolor paint brush from my kids and used it to apply small amounts of the goo to the side lateral guides in the base, the front/back lateral guides in the top, and the sides of the slider (probably not needed).

I used Victorinox on the springs.  After some trial and error, I found that the best way to apply it is to simply slide the spring over the tip of the applicator (I have the small bottle with the long stem), apply a tiny drop inside the spring, and then slide the spring fully onto the applicator and compress the spring.  This does a good job of spreading the oil all over the spring without wasting it on soaking Q-tips and small cups.  I didn't lubricate the bottom tip of the stem, but some Victorinox inevitably got on there when I put it over the spring.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 21 August 2013, 13:48:07
That's what I didn't like about Ergo Clears -- they felt "sloppy".  As in somehow wobbly (but not truly wobbly)--just overall not "solid" like other Cherry switches or stock Clears.
---

P.S.: Since this questions was raised recently and not really answered, and I don't see the answer in the first post of the Simple Questions Simple Answers thread, as indicated: MX Whites vs. MX Greens / Blues.

Some argue that the click is reduced due to lubrication of MX Whites and lack thereof in MX Blues and Greens.  But surely that can be tested by anyone who owns both Whites and Blues / Greens to compare lubricated Blues / Greens with stock Whites?  And vice versa, cleaned up MX Whites with stock Blues / Greens.  If it were down to lubrication, would many people here be after MX White switches when they could just lubricate easily available Blues and swap in heavier springs?

I'm just asking because I see that reasoning periodically, and I myself am interested in a board with MX Whites with a lighter spring, as I love Blues, but hate the loud click.  I don't have an MX White switch myself to compare and resolve this issue, or I would experiment myself.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: rknize on Wed, 21 August 2013, 14:23:29
There is a thread somewhere about this.  I have done exactly this.  I swapped sliders between white and blue stems.  The click followed the slider, not the stem.  I then cleaned the silicon grease out of the black slider (the white stem has a black slider and the blue/green stem has a white slider).  This made them both clicky.  Others have done this as well and at least one person felt that the white stem still sounded different even without the grease.  I'm not sure, given the amount of variance between any two blue switches.  However, it is possible that the slider is made out of different materials.  I could find no dimensional difference between the two (Ripster claims that the white stem has longer rails on the slider...they don't).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 21 August 2013, 14:27:07
There is a thread somewhere about this.  I have done exactly this.  I swapped sliders between white and blue stems.  The click followed the slider, not the stem.  I then cleaned the silicon grease out of the black slider (the white stem has a black slider and the blue/green stem has a white slider).  This made them both clicky.  Others have done this as well and at least one person felt that the white stem still sounded different even without the grease.  I'm not sure, given the amount of variance between any two blue switches.  However, it is possible that the slider is made out of different materials.  I could find no dimensional difference between the two (Ripster claims that the white stem has longer rails on the slider...they don't).

I'd wondered if it wasn't a slightly different material also.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 21 August 2013, 14:34:45
There is a thread somewhere about this.  I have done exactly this.  I swapped sliders between white and blue stems.  The click followed the slider, not the stem.  I then cleaned the silicon grease out of the black slider (the white stem has a black slider and the blue/green stem has a white slider).  This made them both clicky.  Others have done this as well and at least one person felt that the white stem still sounded different even without the grease.  I'm not sure, given the amount of variance between any two blue switches.  However, it is possible that the slider is made out of different materials.  I could find no dimensional difference between the two (Ripster claims that the white stem has longer rails on the slider...they don't).

So basically if I get MX Whites... I should be extremely careful with lubricating them, if doing any lubrication at all?  I'd worry about changing the sound when adding different type of grease / oil (Krytox mixture).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 21 August 2013, 14:40:30
There is a thread somewhere about this.  I have done exactly this.  I swapped sliders between white and blue stems.  The click followed the slider, not the stem.  I then cleaned the silicon grease out of the black slider (the white stem has a black slider and the blue/green stem has a white slider).  This made them both clicky.  Others have done this as well and at least one person felt that the white stem still sounded different even without the grease.  I'm not sure, given the amount of variance between any two blue switches.  However, it is possible that the slider is made out of different materials.  I could find no dimensional difference between the two (Ripster claims that the white stem has longer rails on the slider...they don't).

So basically if I get MX Whites... I should be extremely careful with lubricating them, if doing any lubrication at all?  I'd worry about changing the sound when adding different type of grease / oil (Krytox mixture).

I'm not sure what would happen if you lube whites as they come lubed already...
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: rknize on Wed, 21 August 2013, 14:43:37
I would not lubricate them.  I did a few MX whites with Dupont and even that thin oil was enough to kill the already-subtle click.  I like them just how they are, as far as clicky MX switches go.  I find blues/greens to be irritating, but ergo-whites are just right.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 25 August 2013, 11:44:56
note that you can easily clean off the silicone lube that is used on the crosspoint switch (NOT on the slider) from the factory and then experiment with lubing different parts of the switch with your favorite lube. rule of thumb is not to mix dissimilar lubes. krytoxes can be mixed, silicone-based lubes can usually be mixed, mineral lubes can usually be mixed, but never cross base materials.

this is, by the way, why i actively discourage the use of krytox on the sides of sliders and victorinox (mineral oil) on the bottom.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sprit on Mon, 07 October 2013, 20:47:29
Thx for this good info!   Here is my personal Lub. Points   
[attach=1]     KryTox 103~ 105 applicable.  point-Lube tech with toothpick
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sprit on Fri, 11 October 2013, 07:40:43
So basically if I get MX Whites... I should be extremely careful with lubricating them, if doing any lubrication at all?  I'd worry about changing the sound when adding different type of grease / oil (Krytox mixture).

You may try to use them as they are,  when you feel something wrong, it will be the time to change. IMHO
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 18 October 2013, 23:33:54
Does anyone know what common lubricant can produce such residue?  Does it look like it might be too much Superlube?  It seems sticker than Krytox 103 and 201 that I'm used to.  Less sticky than Victorinox oil.  You can see the white residue as well as the oil-slick shiny surface all around the bottom housing.

[attach=1]

And this appetizing photograph is of MX Black stems soaking in detergent.

[attach=2]

I'm cleaning the switch tops, the stems, and the springs, but not sure what to do about the bottoms. <-- Looks like cotton swabs soaked in alcohol work well on the slider channels in the bottom housing!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Larken on Fri, 18 October 2013, 23:57:51
Does anyone know what common lubricant can produce such residue?  Does it look like it might be too much Superlube?  It seems sticker than Krytox 103 and 201 that I'm used to.  Less sticky than Victorinox oil.  You can see the white residue as well as the oil-slick shiny surface all around the bottom housing.


probably not superlube, though it possible. superlube grease doesn't run like that, and to get it on the bottom of the housing, the builder would have to purposely apply it there. There is however, superlube oil. It is less sticky than victorinox oil, but I haven't heard of anyone using it on its own for keyboard. I do mix it with the grease for a few of my earlier boards.

Superlube grease yellows after a period of time, if it helps.

It's however, hard to tell from a glance. Could be anything from singer oil to a mixture of krytox, (could happen depending on the ratio the oil and grease). Best to check with the person who built the board instead. Or it might still be victorinox, thinned out.

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 19 October 2013, 00:07:32
Thanks :)  I figured I'd ask here just in case, as I don't want to mix incompatible lubes.  I've been able to clean the housing bottoms fairly well (except on the very "floor" and deep in the openings where the stem go into).  Hopefully that's sufficient.  I didn't like how these vintage Blacks felt at all vs. other vintage Blacks I have, so I'm hoping it was just the overgreasing.

The grease/lube on the bottom is likely due to a small brush.  It even looks like there are brush strokes.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Larken on Sat, 19 October 2013, 00:21:01
If its brushed on, it might very well be a teflon grease, though not superlube (guessing due to the white residue).

The grease on the bottom wouldn't really affect things much, as only a small part of the spring comes in contact with it. Similarly for the housing hole for the stem.

Cleaning the slider channels would probably be sufficient, along with the stems (done the same thing before when I swapped superlube out in favor of krytox) :D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 19 October 2013, 00:24:26
Thank you again!  I'll have a look at the housing again in better light tomorrow, but it looks now like I got most of the lube off with alcohol-soaked cotton swabs.  I like my Krytox mix too, so I'll be using that :)

Update: I've learned that the lubricant is also a Krytox mixture!  So no compatibility issues  :thumb:
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: catnipz0098 on Mon, 04 November 2013, 19:20:20
How long can one bottle of lube last?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phoenix1234 on Mon, 04 November 2013, 20:14:32
In my opinion and experience, I faced more troubles with over-lubed switches than benefits.
Therefore, when we lube Cherry MX Clear, Brown, especially Blue and Green, we should be very careful to use very small amount of grease to lube. On the other hand, Cherry Black and Red (linear) tend to be easy to lube due to their linear behaviour.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: 1pq on Sat, 21 December 2013, 18:37:41
This thread is amazing. I think this bump might give noobs (like myself) a lot more knowledge.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: riotonthebay on Thu, 26 December 2013, 15:21:21
Lubing Whites

First off, I just want to say that this thread has been immensely helpful. I had a great time reading through all of it, and learned a ton.

One thing that I noticed is that no one has had much success lubing whites. I spent some time this morning creating about thirty 62g, lubed ergo whites. It took quite a while because I was moving slowly and trying to develop a repeatably process, but I think I found one and wanted to share it here. (Note that none of this is really new, but I had to cobble it together from 4 or 5 pages of this thread. I figured it would be useful to have it all in one place.)

Preparation

To get it out of the way, springs were lubed with Victorinox multi-tool oil. Everything else was done with Krytox GPL 103 or 103/205 mix.

To start, it's important to acknowledge that whites are not all the same, and that means they can't all be lubed the same way. The bag of 100 whites I had contained 46 with a hard click, 40 with the proper soft click, and 14 that didn't click at all. The first thing to do is to separate them.

As for the difference between the hard-clicking and soft-clicking whites: I have no clue. One popular belief is that whites come pre-lubed, but that's almost certainly not the case with these. I also couldn't detect any physical differences between the soft-clicking, hard-clicking, or not-clicking whites. If anyone can actually figure this out, that would be great. For now, I'm okay with it being black magic.

For making ergo whites, I only considered those with a hard click or soft click; I didn't have much luck bringing the click back on the 14 that didn't click in the first place. I've been told that replacing the housing can sometimes work, but I didn't have any luck.

Lubing soft-clicking whites

For soft-clicking whites, I lube the stems and nibs with 103 oil using a very small brush:

(http://i.imgur.com/CsIyPqp.jpg?2)

It is incredibly easy to kill the click on whites by over lubing or lubing the wrong spots. For the already soft-clicking whites, I found that any lube in these areas killed the click entirely:

(http://i.imgur.com/uwBHpXp.jpg?2)

Putting the stock springs back in to compare, I found that this resulted in no change in the click but a noticeably smoother press.

Lubing hard-clicking whites

There's an additional goal when lubing hard-clicking whites, which is to turn a hard click into a soft click. This can be done by carefully inhibiting the click by adding about a 70/30 mix of 103/205 to the very top of the slider tracks:

(http://i.imgur.com/Qm0Cnqt.jpg?2)

A very, very small amount of this mix is needed to dampen the click. Using a large amount, or lubing any lower than I've shown above, will kill the click. The reason the 103/205 mix favors the 103 is because the 205 is just there for adhesion. Too much 205 will cause the slider to be sluggish and kill the click. This time though, you can bring it back by cleaning off the lube with isopropyl alcohol and trying again.

The stems should be lubed the same as the soft-clicking ones.

Results

The end result, especially with lubed 62g springs, seems to be a very nice and buttery smooth soft-clicking white. So far I've only been able to test them in a 6-switch tester, but I'll hopefully have a board filled with them come this weekend.

I hope this helps someone. Happy lubing. :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:11:23
Thanks for the detailed write up!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: swill on Thu, 26 December 2013, 19:35:11
Hoping I don't get flamed off the forums with this questions, but here goes...

I have some KryTox 104 Oil coming and I have a crap ton of SuperLube grease.  I have heard that SuperLube will start to yellow over time, but does it actually change its properties when it yellows?  Without opening my filco switches, I did a very thin layer of SuperLube on the sliders with a fine paint brush and it has made a world of difference.  They still feel great even though I am sure it is more yellow then when I applied it.

Next, if I want a consistency between oil and grease, can I mix the KryTox and the SuperLube?  Any issues with this?

Thx...

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 26 December 2013, 19:36:42
I think I read somewhere to only mix krytox with krytox but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: riotonthebay on Thu, 26 December 2013, 19:49:04
Hoping I don't get flamed off the forums with this questions, but here goes...

I have some KryTox 104 Oil coming and I have a crap ton of SuperLube grease.  I have heard that SuperLube will start to yellow over time, but does it actually change its properties when it yellows?  Without opening my filco switches, I did a very thin layer of SuperLube on the sliders with a fine paint brush and it has made a world of difference.  They still feel great even though I am sure it is more yellow then when I applied it.

Next, if I want a consistency between oil and grease, can I mix the KryTox and the SuperLube?  Any issues with this?

Thx...

rule of thumb is not to mix dissimilar lubes. krytoxes can be mixed, silicone-based lubes can usually be mixed, mineral lubes can usually be mixed, but never cross base materials.

I wouldn't risk it, personally. Especially if it was going on those 300 switches you mentioned to me in a PM ;). At that volume, I think you should go the safe route with a Krytox mix. GPL 205 can be easily had on eBay and shipping to Canada ain't bad (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/DUPONT-KRYTOX-GPL-205-Grease-oz-SCUBA-Oxygen-Nitrox-/270726776495?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0892c6af&_uhb=1).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: swill on Thu, 26 December 2013, 21:44:26
Hoping I don't get flamed off the forums with this questions, but here goes...

I have some KryTox 104 Oil coming and I have a crap ton of SuperLube grease.  I have heard that SuperLube will start to yellow over time, but does it actually change its properties when it yellows?  Without opening my filco switches, I did a very thin layer of SuperLube on the sliders with a fine paint brush and it has made a world of difference.  They still feel great even though I am sure it is more yellow then when I applied it.

Next, if I want a consistency between oil and grease, can I mix the KryTox and the SuperLube?  Any issues with this?

Thx...

rule of thumb is not to mix dissimilar lubes. krytoxes can be mixed, silicone-based lubes can usually be mixed, mineral lubes can usually be mixed, but never cross base materials.

I wouldn't risk it, personally. Especially if it was going on those 300 switches you mentioned to me in a PM ;). At that volume, I think you should go the safe route with a Krytox mix. GPL 205 can be easily had on eBay and shipping to Canada ain't bad (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/DUPONT-KRYTOX-GPL-205-Grease-oz-SCUBA-Oxygen-Nitrox-/270726776495?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0892c6af&_uhb=1).

Ya, fair enough...  I am guessing that 104 + 205 will be a pretty good mix?  Can anyone confirm that? 

Now what do I do with this huge can of SuperLube?  haha...
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: tuxsavvy on Fri, 27 December 2013, 00:29:49
Any of you guys tried the "Dirt & Dust Resistant Dry Lube PTFE Spray" by WD-40?(http://wd40specialist.com/images/product-dry-lube.png)
I have tried this on my APC Clicker F-21 there doesn't seem to be any damages done to the keyboard. Specifically my board has membrane components and any excess lube needs to be wiped off or they will cause interference which little did I know I thought I killed my keyboard but she's working fine again.

Source (of image and more information): http://wd40specialist.com/products/dry-lube/
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: datagrok on Sun, 29 December 2013, 01:29:12
Any of you guys tried the "Dirt & Dust Resistant Dry Lube PTFE Spray" by WD-40? I have tried this on my APC Clicker F-21 there doesn't seem to be any damages done to the keyboard. Specifically my board has membrane components and any excess lube needs to be wiped off or they will cause interference which little did I know I thought I killed my keyboard but she's working fine again.

I just tried something similar, "WD-40 specialist water resistant silicone lubricant." (http://wd40specialist.com/images/water_resistant_spray.png)

I wanted to see what the effect would be on an easy task, the stems of my old HHKB Lite 2, before trying it in the Cherry MX switches in my ErgoDox. Result: massive fail, the keys are stickier than when they were dry and dirty. T_T

I bought it because the only local shop that the Internet said carried the DuPont Teflon Silicone Lubricant as mentioned on page one of this thread... didn't carry it. This seemed to be closest thing they had. That's what I get for being impatient and not just going home and ordering online.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: tuxsavvy on Sun, 29 December 2013, 09:46:58
Any of you guys tried the "Dirt & Dust Resistant Dry Lube PTFE Spray" by WD-40? I have tried this on my APC Clicker F-21 there doesn't seem to be any damages done to the keyboard. Specifically my board has membrane components and any excess lube needs to be wiped off or they will cause interference which little did I know I thought I killed my keyboard but she's working fine again.

I just tried something similar, "WD-40 specialist water resistant silicone lubricant."
Show Image
(http://wd40specialist.com/images/water_resistant_spray.png)


I wanted to see what the effect would be on an easy task, the stems of my old HHKB Lite 2, before trying it in the Cherry MX switches in my ErgoDox. Result: massive fail, the keys are stickier than when they were dry and dirty. T_T

I bought it because the only local shop that the Internet said carried the DuPont Teflon Silicone Lubricant as mentioned on page one of this thread... didn't carry it. This seemed to be closest thing they had. That's what I get for being impatient and not just going home and ordering online.
Hi, welcome to geekhack!

For HHKB I think the best idea is to go for Ro-59. It has been tested fine with HHKB Pro in the very least, not too sure for Lite2 though.

There seems to be a bit of a divide on the lubrication, I think probably the safest ones would be the PTFE based lubricant, ones without any silicone compound in it. I was quite skeptical when I first bought the bottle, thinking that Ro-59 would have been much more superior type of lube instead but because APC Clicker F-21 is such an old keyboard I thought I might as well make it my "lab rat".

Initial tests shows that the keyboard was dead (some letters would appear on the screen, the Lock LED were sort of going off in some weird pattern. Pressing Lock keys to turn them off failed to do anything along with any other keys on the keyboard). After letting the keyboard sit awhile (being disconnected and without lube being cleared out) I decided to fire up the keyboard again and it started showing some signs of life (still it was not working perfectly until I realised that my keyboard wasn't dead. The only reason was that there were too much film accrued on the membrane sheet which probably caused some short circuit. After a bit of constant cleaning and retrying with the board I managed to get the keyboard back into a more functional state.

To this day I still do not know if this PTFE dry lubricant is still suitable for use on keyboards or not. One thing for sure is that I would not be using it on my HHKB because the lack of tests done with the lube in question as well as in general seems to be a concern for me. I think the best way is to just get Ro-59 for when dealing with Topre switches. Safest bet, considering there were many "lab rats" before us.

Thanks again for your input! I didn't think anyone would have responded to my use of some more common lube that can be sort of found in some local hardware store. I actually went and bought mine (the lube) physically from the store. After looking at the (small) range of lube available I thought I might as well gamble with this PTFE Dry lubricant when the bottle had the words "Compatible with all metals, vinyls, plastics and rubber".
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Zeal on Sun, 29 December 2013, 20:40:03
Has anyone tried the GH Lubekit on Originative and compared it to the regular 103/205 Krytox mixture for Ergo-Clears?
What are the differences between Krytox GPL 206/1506 vs 103/205?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: ninjadoc on Tue, 28 January 2014, 05:49:46
Does anyone know what common lubricant can produce such residue?  Does it look like it might be too much Superlube?  It seems sticker than Krytox 103 and 201 that I'm used to.  Less sticky than Victorinox oil.  You can see the white residue as well as the oil-slick shiny surface all around the bottom housing.

(Attachment Link)

And this appetizing photograph is of MX Black stems soaking in detergent.

(Attachment Link)

I'm cleaning the switch tops, the stems, and the springs, but not sure what to do about the bottoms. <-- Looks like cotton swabs soaked in alcohol work well on the slider channels in the bottom housing!


Is LZ soaking these switches in detergent?

http://lzlife.tistory.com/category/LZ%20Histroy

If so, what kind do you clean your switches with?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 28 January 2014, 06:34:21
Does anyone know what common lubricant can produce such residue?  Does it look like it might be too much Superlube?  It seems sticker than Krytox 103 and 201 that I'm used to.  Less sticky than Victorinox oil.  You can see the white residue as well as the oil-slick shiny surface all around the bottom housing.

(Attachment Link)

And this appetizing photograph is of MX Black stems soaking in detergent.

(Attachment Link)

I'm cleaning the switch tops, the stems, and the springs, but not sure what to do about the bottoms. <-- Looks like cotton swabs soaked in alcohol work well on the slider channels in the bottom housing!


Is LZ soaking these switches in detergent?

http://lzlife.tistory.com/category/LZ%20Histroy

If so, what kind do you clean your switches with?

Is that cleaner or lube??

If cleaner I wonder if they are using 'vintage' (used, grubby, dirty switches) that need a deep cleaning.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: ninjadoc on Tue, 28 January 2014, 14:21:33
So what type of cleaner do you use on these old, dirty switches?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phoenix1234 on Wed, 29 January 2014, 12:12:01
Does anyone know what common lubricant can produce such residue?  Does it look like it might be too much Superlube?  It seems sticker than Krytox 103 and 201 that I'm used to.  Less sticky than Victorinox oil.  You can see the white residue as well as the oil-slick shiny surface all around the bottom housing.

(Attachment Link)

And this appetizing photograph is of MX Black stems soaking in detergent.

(Attachment Link)

I'm cleaning the switch tops, the stems, and the springs, but not sure what to do about the bottoms. <-- Looks like cotton swabs soaked in alcohol work well on the slider channels in the bottom housing!


Is LZ soaking these switches in detergent?

http://lzlife.tistory.com/category/LZ%20Histroy

If so, what kind do you clean your switches with?

I had a very bad experience with washing the switches (~100 broken oxidized switch housings).
Therefore, I would like to share with anyone who is attempting to wash their switch in water.
Please be very careful, the brass contact points will get oxidized quickly and easily when they contact H20.

Actually, IMO, I think we only need to wash the stem but do not wash the switch housing.
In order to clean the switch housing, we can use a clean toothbrush to clean it.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 29 January 2014, 12:13:45
I think LZ was likely using IPA in order to remove any factory applied grease/possibly dirt.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: ninjadoc on Wed, 29 January 2014, 18:32:28
I think LZ was likely using IPA in order to remove any factory applied grease/possibly dirt.

I'm ignorant - what's IPA?

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 29 January 2014, 18:39:36
I think LZ was likely using IPA in order to remove any factory applied grease/possibly dirt.

I'm ignorant - what's IPA?

Isopropyl Alcohol
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 30 January 2014, 09:14:51
I think LZ was likely using IPA in order to remove any factory applied grease/possibly dirt.

I'm ignorant - what's IPA?

India Pale Ale.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: ninjadoc on Thu, 30 January 2014, 14:30:03
I think LZ was likely using IPA in order to remove any factory applied grease/possibly dirt.

I'm ignorant - what's IPA?

India Pale Ale.

I like your answer better! :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: kmiller8 on Mon, 03 February 2014, 07:51:45
Ming's Unofficial Guide to Lubing.

Preface: There are only two parts on a MX switch worth lubing, the gold crosspoint contact with the slider, and the channels in the bottom switch housing.

What do you want out of lubing?

What kind of feel do you want out of switches?

Lubing can either decrease or increase friction inside the switch.

To decrease friction for a smoother switch, use a thin lube on the slider arms and in the channels.
To increase friction, and enhance tactility, use a thick lube in the channels, and a very thick lube on the slider arms.

Some Notes: Be careful with the slider arms on a tactile switch, too much lube can kill the click, and the thick formulation is not thick enough to actually increase tactility.

OG Chatlog
More
Quote
[2/2/2014 10:10:12 PM] ming: i think it really depends on what kind of feel you want out of the switch
[2/2/2014 10:10:56 PM] ming: use a tiny bit of the right consistency of lube in the right place and you can almost any feel out of any switch
[2/2/2014 10:10:59 PM] ming: well
[2/2/2014 10:11:11 PM] ming: as long as that feel involves less friction somewhere
[2/2/2014 10:11:14 PM] ming: or more stiction
[2/2/2014 10:12:07 PM] ming: but any lubricant not on surfaces with dynamic friction is wasted lube that's going to get all over the place the second you start using the switches
[2/2/2014 10:12:22 PM] ming: if you look at a cherry switch
[2/2/2014 10:12:31 PM] ming: there's the slider, the bottom housing, top housing right
[2/2/2014 10:12:43 PM] ming: slider has back, front and sides
[2/2/2014 10:12:58 PM] ming: sides slide into two gussets in the bottom housing
[2/2/2014 10:13:12 PM] ming: top housing has very little contact with slide, pretty much irrelevant
[2/2/2014 10:13:16 PM] ming: so you have slider and bottom housing
[2/2/2014 10:13:41 PM] ming: there are two points that are lubricated from the factory on any cherry switch. the furthest two points on the gold crosspoint contact
[2/2/2014 10:14:20 PM] ming: if you want a smoother less tactile switch, put a thin lube there
[2/2/2014 10:14:47 PM] ming: if that's not smooth enough for you, also lube the two gussets
[2/2/2014 10:16:14 PM] ming: all the stems have two little arms
[2/2/2014 10:16:17 PM] ming: that connect to those
[2/2/2014 10:16:21 PM] ming: those are the factory lube points
[2/2/2014 10:16:36 PM] ming: they use a silicone based lube
[2/2/2014 10:16:41 PM] ming: fairly viscous
[2/2/2014 10:17:16 PM] ming: if you want a more tactile switch, put thick stuff on the gussets
[2/2/2014 10:17:29 PM] ming: but you have to be careful about the slider face with tactile switches
[2/2/2014 10:17:41 PM] ming: hence the formulation of VERY THICK
[2/2/2014 10:17:53 PM] ming: thick is not thick enough for more tactility on slider face
[2/2/2014 10:18:20 PM] ming: same problem as topre sliders


I will be updating this with more info as I bug ming.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 03 February 2014, 10:46:42
Thanks for posting this, Kirk. I've not thought about using very thick lube on the slider arms to increase tactility. I want to see how this affects browns now…
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: kmiller8 on Wed, 12 February 2014, 14:25:09
Talked with him some more about lubing clicky switches

More
[2/11/2014 10:40:37 PM] ming: only lube the back of the housing
[2/11/2014 10:40:49 PM] ming: never lube the face of the stem
[2/11/2014 10:40:55 PM] ming: even with very thick
[2/11/2014 10:41:22 PM] ming: it's complicated, but you want to increase the stiction when the switch stops or changes direction
[2/11/2014 10:41:33 PM] ming: the front of it
[2/11/2014 10:41:39 PM] ming: what i do is i take taht little brush
[2/11/2014 10:42:05 PM] ming: and i just put a tiny bit of lube on the interior of the housings where the sliders contact the sides of the housing
[2/11/2014 10:42:24 PM] ming: it smooths the action out and gives you that extra stiction with very thick
[2/11/2014 10:43:02 PM] ming: it's a tricky bit of physics because it's non-newtonian
[2/11/2014 10:43:19 PM] ming: but static friction is completely different from sliding or dynamic friction right
[2/11/2014 10:43:50 PM] ming: like when two objects are touching and fixed, the force of static friction is what acts on them
[2/11/2014 10:44:04 PM] ming: when they're sliding against each other, it's a different coefficient
[2/11/2014 10:44:19 PM] ming: this is still a linear approximation of what's actually going on, but it's a second order
[2/11/2014 10:44:41 PM] ming: with clicky switches you want to increase the holding force when the two surfaces are stopped
[2/11/2014 10:44:55 PM] ming: but decrease the force that opposes the stem sliding
[2/11/2014 10:45:10 PM] ming: so it's smooth but tactile
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Veteranos on Wed, 19 February 2014, 16:07:04
Amazing topic!
But i need someone to clarify the landscape ... i've got a filco with red mx and id like to do some lubing on the switches.

If i use only the oil on the springs will that be ok ? i kinda need to eliminate the spring sound, will that be enough or i should lube the other parts too?

Can someone provide me with a small guide to that because i'm a new to this "lube thing" :P

I'd appreciate it :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: 1pq on Wed, 19 February 2014, 16:26:02
Did you see the vid in the op? That should answer your questions.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Veteranos on Wed, 19 February 2014, 17:01:37
yes i did :)

but i was wondering if i would apply only the oil on the springs and not the mixture of grease and oil in the other parts...will that eliminate the spring sound some keys do?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: 1pq on Wed, 19 February 2014, 17:10:30
I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Are you asking which lube mixture to put on the springs? Or whether to lube the springs at all? Stock cherry springs are prelubed, but if you don't lube korean springs (like the ones from originative) you can sometimes hear some grindy metal-on-metal noises. Lubing the springs would get rid of this noise. The most common lube for springs is victorinox multi-tool oil.

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Veteranos on Wed, 19 February 2014, 19:43:35
yes this is what i exactly want..to get rid that metal-on-metal grindy noises that some keys do. So applying for example the victorinox oil on springs is going to vanish that noise? Or do i have to apply grease on the stems and housing etc etc?

Sorry for my english being kinda goofy :P
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: 1pq on Wed, 19 February 2014, 20:02:58
No problem about your english! Most of it's totally understandable, I was just a little unclear about exactly what you were asking.

Victorinox should work perfectly for what you're talking about. There's no need to use krytox for lubing springs.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Veteranos on Wed, 19 February 2014, 21:00:42
Alright! Thank you very much for that small info :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Veteranos on Fri, 21 February 2014, 08:49:39
Does anyone have mixed the gpl-205 grease with victorinox multi-tool oil to use it on the stems sliders?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 21 February 2014, 09:26:26
Does anyone have mixed the gpl-205 grease with victorinox multi-tool oil to use it on the stems sliders?

That's like mixing a fine wine with two buck chuck.  It just should not be done.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: 1pq on Fri, 21 February 2014, 23:34:18
The lube you use on the springs will not affect the feel nearly as much as the lube you use on the sliders/stems, and the places where you put that lube. Don't think too much about lubing the spring. Just use Victorinox and you'll be fine :))
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Veteranos on Sat, 22 February 2014, 08:08:22
ok thanks :) now need some time to desoldering that  :(
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 23 March 2014, 13:43:18
thanks to photoelectric, i now have a small sample of victorinox multi-tool oil. it turns out that it's actually polyolefin mix. lubricants with polyolefins at their base seem to be copolymers typically made of hydrocarbon monomers that are primarily 1-decene? it's definitely not sweet. it has a strong smell that's a bit like wax. at room temperature, it's definitely more viscous than krytox GPL 106 or 107. it doesn't really feel like it has any solids in it, and i had it tagged as a minerol oil (not too far off base) before i took a look at the MSDS.

it's definitely very different from the PFPE, PTFE combination that is krytox, but it's also not a grease. it seems a bit like it's optimized to coat objects, like the joints in multi-tools to provide corrosion resistance. lubridicity doesn't really seem all that great...

more to come as i play around with it.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Pacifist on Sun, 23 March 2014, 13:44:58
woop spring lube!!!!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: minho on Mon, 19 May 2014, 01:47:53
Quick question - for lubing Clear switches, is something thick like this Extra thick formula (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=794) or is something thin like this thin formula (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=755) better? I wish to maintain tactility while smoothing the travel (eliminating scratchiness and other feelings besides just the tactile feeling).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: deltuhhh on Sun, 06 July 2014, 01:04:14
Is it possible "lube" the switch without taking the housing off?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 06 July 2014, 01:06:45
Is it possible "lube" the switch without taking the housing off?

Not really... you could depress it and try to drip some **** in but it's been done before and the results aren't pretty.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: swill on Sun, 06 July 2014, 07:14:53
Is it possible "lube" the switch without taking the housing off?

The first board I ever lubed was done this way. I used grease and a tiny paint brush. I depressed the switch with a small flat head screwdriver a painted a super thin layer of grease on the side sliders.

It worked ok, but nothing like taking it apart and doing it correctly.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Z3us_ on Sat, 19 July 2014, 23:07:38
Just a quick question. If i'm gonna lube topres should i use grease,oil or a mixture?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: lolkey on Mon, 11 August 2014, 21:24:08
Is lubing really worth it? I've read quite a few people saying the difference is really small or not even noticeable. Seems like a lot of work, especially having to desolder every switch
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phoenix1234 on Mon, 11 August 2014, 23:15:54
Is lubing really worth it? I've read quite a few people saying the difference is really small or not even noticeable. Seems like a lot of work, especially having to desolder every switch
It depends. Lubing brand new Cherry MX Linear or Tactile switches is worth every bit. Lubing Vintage Cherry MX Black will have small benefit. However, it is not recommended to lube Clicky switches like Cherry MX Blue or Green because if we apply lubricant with high viscosity, it may lose the clicky.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: lolkey on Tue, 12 August 2014, 01:51:40
Can anyone describe the feeling before and after lubing browns? Does it make them feel lighter? I notice at times some of my keys feels a bit scratchy depending on the temperature and humidity. Does that stuff effect the feel or the switch, or am I crazy?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phoenix1234 on Tue, 12 August 2014, 03:50:14
Can anyone describe the feeling before and after lubing browns? Does it make them feel lighter? I notice at times some of my keys feels a bit scratchy depending on the temperature and humidity. Does that stuff effect the feel or the switch, or am I crazy?

From my experience, after I lubed with high quality Krytox mixed lube, the feeling of Brown is not lighter but it is smoother and better. You are right about the scratchiness. However, after lubed correctly, the scratchy feeling will be reduced significantly. If you want to lube MX Brown, please be careful when you select the type of lube, please choose to have low viscosity one because the high viscosity lube may reduce the tactile feeling and make it become something completely Linear (like MX Red)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Kakkun on Mon, 01 September 2014, 07:30:39
However, it is not recommended to lube Clicky switches like Cherry MX Blue or Green because if we apply lubricant with high viscosity, it may lose the clicky.
What about a low viscosity lube? Should clicky switches not be lubed at all?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 01 September 2014, 11:09:48
I lubed vintage blues with tiny amounts of GPL 103 oil, and I loved the effects it had. Click is there, just slightly dampened/less high-pitched and they feel smoother.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: C5Allroad on Tue, 23 September 2014, 22:07:10
How long does the lube last before it starts to go back go normal so to speak?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: DzyDzyDino on Wed, 01 October 2014, 03:51:06
Sorry to post in a dying thread, but I'm getting ready to do my first lubing run soon, and wondering If I should go ahead and pick up some Victorinox for my springs/bottoms of stems? I had planned to use that very runny "Dupont Teflon Silicone Lubricant" stuff -- according to the labeling it seems to be safe for everything and from the consistency it seems like it would get the same effect. Since the lubing the springs isn't exactly a vital part (so it seems), I think I'd probably be okay for that, or does the Victorinox make that much of a difference? I've got some GPL 104 and 205 on the way for my stems. I probably would have grabbed 103 if I could have found it... but yeah, opinions on the spring lube?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 01 October 2014, 12:43:40
How long does the lube last before it starts to go back go normal so to speak?

I would say it depends on usage of keyboard, type of lube, amount applied as well as the local environment.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phoenix1234 on Wed, 01 October 2014, 20:09:23
Sorry to post in a dying thread, but I'm getting ready to do my first lubing run soon, and wondering If I should go ahead and pick up some Victorinox for my springs/bottoms of stems? I had planned to use that very runny "Dupont Teflon Silicone Lubricant" stuff -- according to the labeling it seems to be safe for everything and from the consistency it seems like it would get the same effect. Since the lubing the springs isn't exactly a vital part (so it seems), I think I'd probably be okay for that, or does the Victorinox make that much of a difference? I've got some GPL 104 and 205 on the way for my stems. I probably would have grabbed 103 if I could have found it... but yeah, opinions on the spring lube?

Using high viscosity on spring will help to reduce the PING effect. You can use Dupont Teflon Silicone Lubricant on spring but since it has medium-high viscosity index (90), I would say Victorinox is better because it has higher viscosity, even higher than Krytox 107.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: cinnamonrollz on Sun, 19 October 2014, 15:27:07
Nice guide. Makes me wonder what an mx switch that has been submerged in lube would feel like.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: beltet on Tue, 28 October 2014, 16:54:11
Anyone used Unilube from Griffon? What is your experience?

EDIT: it's sewing machine oil.

Btw. Why do all buy Krytox GPL? See that on krytox homepage that the GPL 104 is a compressor oil. And you can get other compressor oil with the same viscosity @1l for about 6€? And 10g of Krytox costs 10$?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: rainb1ood on Wed, 26 November 2014, 20:11:29
Hey guys! Can I use the Permatex Dielectric Grease for lubing the switches?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: strict on Sat, 29 November 2014, 07:53:27
Hey guys! Can I use the Permatex Dielectric Grease for lubing the switches?

I wouldn't, that stuff seems way too thick and would probably drastically alter the feel of the switch. You can't go wrong using one of the Krytox kits.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: rainb1ood on Sat, 29 November 2014, 10:44:48
Thanks, so the thin ones from techkeys it is.

Also quick question, I noticed that the Krytox GPL 206/1506 premixed from techkeys/mechanicalkeyboards.com says that 'thin' is made for linear switches and 'thick' is for tactile switches. I'm going to use it on an ergo clear mod, would thin still be the best to use?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: asgeirtj on Sat, 10 January 2015, 17:01:47
Saw this comment on reddit from elitekeyboard:

"Pricey Krytox GPL20x lubes are a bad match for keyswitches (don't tell the guys at geekhack!). These lubes are intended for closed systems or for applications where oil is periodically reapplied to the initially applied lubricant, because the Krytox oil in the lubricant separates from the PTFE solids if the system isn't sealed or doesn't constantly mix the lubricant (which reflows the solids). Sure, it's great lube for high speed bearings and extreme temperature environments, but keyswitches are open systems at room temperature and the oil will soon separate and pool or drip out the bottom of the switch leaving you with gummier solids that no longer flow and just attract dust. We did tests a couple years ago with Krytox out of curiosity, and after the oil separates off a few days or a week later, the difference from an un-lubed switch is mostly negligible."

LOL :D 

Anyway I'm going to be lubing 55g gold spring ergo-clears.  Is there much difference between the GPL 206/1506 geekhack kit and the gpl 203/103 so many on this thread talk about?  It's said that thick lube is best for tactile switches, so it'd be best if I used thick gh lube on all places, and this https://ctrlalt.io/store/items/geekhackers-lube-kits spring lube on spring?  Is difference between thick and thin lube a different mix of the 206/1506?  What's used for the spring lube on ctrlalt, some kind of victorinox?  Is http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,misc&pid=mechlube or gh thick lube better for stabilizers ?(cherry)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 10 January 2015, 19:35:21

Saw this comment on reddit from elitekeyboard:

"Pricey Krytox GPL20x lubes are a bad match for keyswitches (don't tell the guys at geekhack!). These lubes are intended for closed systems or for applications where oil is periodically reapplied to the initially applied lubricant, because the Krytox oil in the lubricant separates from the PTFE solids if the system isn't sealed or doesn't constantly mix the lubricant (which reflows the solids). Sure, it's great lube for high speed bearings and extreme temperature environments, but keyswitches are open systems at room temperature and the oil will soon separate and pool or drip out the bottom of the switch leaving you with gummier solids that no longer flow and just attract dust. We did tests a couple years ago with Krytox out of curiosity, and after the oil separates off a few days or a week later, the difference from an un-lubed switch is mostly negligible."

LOL :D 

Anyway I'm going to be lubing 55g gold spring ergo-clears.  Is there much difference between the GPL 206/1506 geekhack kit and the gpl 203/103 so many on this thread talk about?  It's said that thick lube is best for tactile switches, so it'd be best if I used thick gh lube on all places, and this https://ctrlalt.io/store/items/geekhackers-lube-kits spring lube on spring?  Is difference between thick and thin lube a different mix of the 206/1506?  What's used for the spring lube on ctrlalt, some kind of victorinox?  Is http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,misc&pid=mechlube or gh thick lube better for stabilizers ?(cherry)

Huh. Seems to me that the PTFE solids would be a great lubricant, even if what he's saying is true.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 10 January 2015, 20:11:23
IIRC that was Brian @ ek dissing the krytox probably so he can sell more mech lube
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: slinky773 on Mon, 02 February 2015, 19:38:37
Hey, just a quick question: I (used to?) cube, and in cubing, we use silicon based oil, like Lubix (http://lubixcube.com/Lubix_Shop_SILICONE.html) or what I use, which is from thecubicle.us (http://thecubicle.us/cubicle-silicone-lube-c-35_64.html). Do you think this would be suitable for lubing switches? The lube itself is similar to Traxxas diff oil. Weight varies, but a common weight to use for cubes is 30k diff oil. I'm not sure what weight the lube I use would be closest too, though.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jabbon on Tue, 03 February 2015, 12:34:12
IIRC that was Brian @ ek dissing the krytox probably so he can sell more mech lube

Would this mean that actually what he said makes no sense?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Stabilized on Wed, 04 February 2015, 08:46:55
So I spent some time lubricating some of the vintage black key switches in the new keyboard I got (based around faceu replica) and I used two different types of krytox to try them out. I did a row of keys with 103 and a row with 107 using this guide.
I feel like the 107 gives the keys a gummy feeling, and this doesn't surprise me that much as it is very viscous, but I also get a similar feeling using the 103, which is a much lighter lubricant (maybe less gummyness on bottoming out).
TBH I am not sure if I would take the time to do it again! If I am opening up the switches to put in new springs I might put a dab on the sliders, but the whole rigmarole of dipping the spring is a bit lost on me.

Now; how do I remove lubricant from switches? Use some isopropyl alcohol?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 06 February 2015, 01:33:05
So I spent some time lubricating some of the vintage black key switches in the new keyboard I got (based around faceu replica) and I used two different types of krytox to try them out. I did a row of keys with 103 and a row with 107 using this guide.
I feel like the 107 gives the keys a gummy feeling, and this doesn't surprise me that much as it is very viscous, but I also get a similar feeling using the 103, which is a much lighter lubricant (maybe less gummyness on bottoming out).
TBH I am not sure if I would take the time to do it again! If I am opening up the switches to put in new springs I might put a dab on the sliders, but the whole rigmarole of dipping the spring is a bit lost on me.

Now; how do I remove lubricant from switches? Use some isopropyl alcohol?

You must rub it off on a cloth (like microfiber).

There's a reason why many people choose to blend krytox grease & oil together. I also would not recommend dipping a whole spring into oil.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: asgeirtj on Sat, 07 February 2015, 05:42:17
http://i.imgur.com/jVlMFd8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/F268jBV.jpg

Isn't this wayyy too much lubing?

https://imgur.com/a/qPNAw#bEHlfJ2 taken from this guide.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: pichu23 on Sat, 07 February 2015, 07:30:47
http://i.imgur.com/jVlMFd8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/F268jBV.jpg

Isn't this wayyy too much lubing?

https://imgur.com/a/qPNAw#bEHlfJ2 taken from this guide.

Personally, I wouldn't use that amount. The amount of lube he used, I can use it for maybe 2 switches.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Stabilized on Mon, 09 February 2015, 02:48:19
There's a reason why many people choose to blend krytox grease & oil together. I also would not recommend dipping a whole spring into oil.

Whoops, sorry I got my lubing guides mixed up and I don't think I made it that clear from the original post. What happened was I did use this guide on a number of switches but I also used WhireFireDragon's YouTube video and also DzyDzyDino's for a number of the other switches; I should say that this was my first time lubing switches (am a bit of a noob).
I found that using the 107 on the sliders made it feel gummy, and I assumed that because it was 1xx it was still considered oil and was suitable for using unmixed; I will make sure to mix it next time.

Did re-do a number of the switches just using the light 103 on the sliders and a bit of the springs; this is much nicer and I would totally use this method again, thanks :D

On the topic of the cloth though, wouldn't this leave residue?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Bucake on Sat, 14 February 2015, 12:09:22
what's the difference between GPL205 and GPL206? and why do i never see 200-204 or 207 recommended?

and how much oz would be good for a keyboard? because i want to make sure i get enough for at least 3 boards :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: asgeirtj on Tue, 17 February 2015, 13:55:19
Ming's Unofficial Guide to Lubing.

Preface: There are only two parts on a MX switch worth lubing, the gold crosspoint contact with the slider, and the channels in the bottom switch housing.

What do you want out of lubing?

What kind of feel do you want out of switches?

Lubing can either decrease or increase friction inside the switch.

To decrease friction for a smoother switch, use a thin lube on the slider arms and in the channels.
To increase friction, and enhance tactility, use a thick lube in the channels, and a very thick lube on the slider arms.

Some Notes: Be careful with the slider arms on a tactile switch, too much lube can kill the click, and the thick formulation is not thick enough to actually increase tactility.

OG Chatlog
More
Quote
[2/2/2014 10:10:12 PM] ming: i think it really depends on what kind of feel you want out of the switch
[2/2/2014 10:10:56 PM] ming: use a tiny bit of the right consistency of lube in the right place and you can almost any feel out of any switch
[2/2/2014 10:10:59 PM] ming: well
[2/2/2014 10:11:11 PM] ming: as long as that feel involves less friction somewhere
[2/2/2014 10:11:14 PM] ming: or more stiction
[2/2/2014 10:12:07 PM] ming: but any lubricant not on surfaces with dynamic friction is wasted lube that's going to get all over the place the second you start using the switches
[2/2/2014 10:12:22 PM] ming: if you look at a cherry switch
[2/2/2014 10:12:31 PM] ming: there's the slider, the bottom housing, top housing right
[2/2/2014 10:12:43 PM] ming: slider has back, front and sides
[2/2/2014 10:12:58 PM] ming: sides slide into two gussets in the bottom housing
[2/2/2014 10:13:12 PM] ming: top housing has very little contact with slide, pretty much irrelevant
[2/2/2014 10:13:16 PM] ming: so you have slider and bottom housing
[2/2/2014 10:13:41 PM] ming: there are two points that are lubricated from the factory on any cherry switch. the furthest two points on the gold crosspoint contact
[2/2/2014 10:14:20 PM] ming: if you want a smoother less tactile switch, put a thin lube there
[2/2/2014 10:14:47 PM] ming: if that's not smooth enough for you, also lube the two gussets
[2/2/2014 10:16:14 PM] ming: all the stems have two little arms
[2/2/2014 10:16:17 PM] ming: that connect to those
[2/2/2014 10:16:21 PM] ming: those are the factory lube points
[2/2/2014 10:16:36 PM] ming: they use a silicone based lube
[2/2/2014 10:16:41 PM] ming: fairly viscous
[2/2/2014 10:17:16 PM] ming: if you want a more tactile switch, put thick stuff on the gussets
[2/2/2014 10:17:29 PM] ming: but you have to be careful about the slider face with tactile switches
[2/2/2014 10:17:41 PM] ming: hence the formulation of VERY THICK
[2/2/2014 10:17:53 PM] ming: thick is not thick enough for more tactility on slider face
[2/2/2014 10:18:20 PM] ming: same problem as topre sliders


I will be updating this with more info as I bug ming.

I'm confused about the terminology in this guide.  Ok so we have the stem, which has sliders on side and a double front thingy which touches the gold crosspoint in the bottom of the switch.  Is ming saying that you should put very thick on the front thingy's OR is he talking about the sides?. 

"There are only two parts on a MX switch worth lubing, the gold crosspoint contact with the slider, and the channels in the bottom switch housing."  Correct me if I'm wrong: lubing the sliders on the side and the bottom switch housing channels is essentially the same right?  This sentence implies that lubing the bottom of the stem/the hole in the bottom housing of a switch is not worth lubing, doesn't this make most lubing guides wrong, including the one in this thread?  This sentence also implies that a spring is not worth lubing, doesn't lubing the spring eliminate ping?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phoenix1234 on Wed, 18 February 2015, 03:52:03
what's the difference between GPL205 and GPL206? and why do i never see 200-204 or 207 recommended?

and how much oz would be good for a keyboard? because i want to make sure i get enough for at least 3 boards :)

Krytox 205 and 206 are significantly different. http://www.matweb.com/search/QuickText.aspx?SearchText=gpl%20205 http://www.matweb.com/search/QuickText.aspx?SearchText=gpl%20206

Dupont krytox 200-207, technically is 100-107 in grease form accordingly. If we open a new box of Krytox 200, we will see a small layer of Krytox GPL 100 separated.  I believe a lot of people in GH mixed and tried 100-107 vs 200-207, even the official GH lube kit is a mixture of GPL 206 + VPF 1506 (~ GPL 206 + GPL 102/103 ). However, the 107 or 207 has too high viscosity so it will heavily modify the keyboard feeling. A keyboard only needs about 3ml (~ 0.101442 oz US fluid)

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Bucake on Fri, 20 February 2015, 01:54:15
thanks alot for the detail, phoenix1234 :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 20 April 2015, 16:37:15
Btw. Why do all buy Krytox GPL? See that on krytox homepage that the GPL 104 is a compressor oil. And you can get other compressor oil with the same viscosity @1l for about 6€? And 10g of Krytox costs 10$?
does anybody have an answer to this question?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Skechup on Tue, 21 April 2015, 13:39:13
This is a cool guide!

I might use this on a Brown switch if I feel like it but I personally like Browns as they are. This might also be good for Blues if you want the click to be a touch quieter.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phoenix1234 on Wed, 22 April 2015, 04:42:45
Btw. Why do all buy Krytox GPL? See that on krytox homepage that the GPL 104 is a compressor oil. And you can get other compressor oil with the same viscosity @1l for about 6€? And 10g of Krytox costs 10$?
does anybody have an answer to this question?

Krytox 104 is a high quality oil.
By looking at the characteristic:
[attachimg=1]
We can see that it is quite slow on evaporation, operational in wide temperature range, chemically inert, non-flammable, non-volatile and compatible with many applications as well as low viscosity.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 23 April 2015, 13:09:58
thanks. do you think it's worth paying premium for this? seeing as many of the factors you listed aren't applicable for the usage of lubing stabs
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Thu, 23 April 2015, 13:18:47
I think the folks over at Dupont would have a nice laugh if they knew we were using their industrial grade lubricants for our keyboards.   :)) :))
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phoenix1234 on Fri, 24 April 2015, 12:33:16
thanks. do you think it's worth paying premium for this? seeing as many of the factors you listed aren't applicable for the usage of lubing stabs
Correctly! Krytox 104 is good for the switch but it is not so good for the stabilizers.
If you want to lube the stabilizers, better use the Krytox 205 grease instead.
It has higher viscosity as well as grease property.
Nevertheless, you can always create a mixture between Krytox 104 and 205 to form a suitable fluid for your need.
To save time, you can also consider the GH lube, the experts already mixed it.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Zukoi on Wed, 13 May 2015, 09:02:32
Can I use lithium grease for the silder? I have some lying around and I would like to use what I have already.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 13 May 2015, 10:56:30
I think the folks over at Dupont would have a nice laugh if they knew we were using their industrial grade lubricants for our keyboards.   :)) :))

When I spoke to people over at Dow Corning, they were helpful and didn't laugh at all.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: strict on Wed, 13 May 2015, 18:46:56
Can I use lithium grease for the silder? I have some lying around and I would like to use what I have already.

Personally, I would stick to the tried and true Krytox blends. If you have a switch or two lying around it's worth testing but I would be surprised if the results, both long term and short, are any better than unlubed.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Zukoi on Wed, 13 May 2015, 18:48:18
Can I use lithium grease for the silder? I have some lying around and I would like to use what I have already.

Personally, I would stick to the tried and true Krytox blends. If you have a switch or two lying around it's worth testing but I would be surprised if the results, both long term and short, are any better than unlubed.
In the name of science then...

I got some Browns lying around and some lithium grease.

I read the entire thread and damn, you guys like krytox.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 18 June 2015, 07:21:33
Before I read the entire thread, I was going to use high viscosity RC silicon lube with some mixed in silicone grease on my springs and some low viscosity RC silicon lube on the stem, sliders and the switch top

After reading the entire thread, I'm still going to do the same, but it was still a good read, it's interesting how lubes from different interests/hobbies apply to switches

I'm currently using a keyboard with only-spring lubed switches, I'm pretty satisfied, it completely eliminated the pings that I complained about for a long while

I think the stem/slider lubing is far more risky, especially in the long run, as lube+dirt=gunk that will slow down the stem, however, I'm intending to apply the low viscosity lube from a rubbed brush that has no lube left, the silicone is pretty sticky, so even if the brush is rubbed after being dipped, the remaining lube on the brush should be enough and adequate for the job

I'm a bit disappointed that no one mentioned switch top lubing to improve/dampen the bottom up sounds (at least I missed it) - in any case, I will share my experience when I finalise my first build (first completely custom build that is)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: asgeirtj on Fri, 19 June 2015, 13:32:52
Before I read the entire thread, I was going to use high viscosity RC silicon lube with some mixed in silicone grease on my springs and some low viscosity RC silicon lube on the stem, sliders and the switch top

After reading the entire thread, I'm still going to do the same, but it was still a good read, it's interesting how lubes from different interests/hobbies apply to switches

I'm currently using a keyboard with only-spring lubed switches, I'm pretty satisfied, it completely eliminated the pings that I complained about for a long while

I think the stem/slider lubing is far more risky, especially in the long run, as lube+dirt=gunk that will slow down the stem, however, I'm intending to apply the low viscosity lube from a rubbed brush that has no lube left, the silicone is pretty sticky, so even if the brush is rubbed after being dipped, the remaining lube on the brush should be enough and adequate for the job

I'm a bit disappointed that no one mentioned switch top lubing to improve/dampen the bottom up sounds (at least I missed it) - in any case, I will share my experience when I finalise my first build (first completely custom build that is)

I think that lubing a mx switch with krytox won't gather dirt or have any problems in the long rung.  From my short testing with lubing a switch top it didn't make any difference (as some guy said on here only thing worth lubing is stem and channels (plus springs)).  I know that Lastpilot did it on some build of his but there he was using gateron top housings I believe which make more of an upstroke sound and do benefit from lubing I believe. 
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Fnzzy on Mon, 22 June 2015, 09:29:52
Would it matter if I used thick krytox lube from TechKeys on linear Gateron blacks? I know that thin lube is recommended for linears but I don't want to order some from overseas since I still have lots of tick lube left.

So would it make much of a difference?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 22 June 2015, 11:03:59
Would it matter if I used thick krytox lube from TechKeys on linear Gateron blacks? I know that thin lube is recommended for linears but I don't want to order some from overseas since I still have lots of tick lube left.

So would it make much of a difference?
I'm guessing, if you apply too much, it could cause a bit of a popping sound
I'm guessing, since it's thick, it would slow down the movement of the stem, dampen it, might be desirable or not desirable depending on what you like - it might be pneumatic-like/desirable
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 22 June 2015, 15:35:19
So is the OP still what people should be doing?  Or is it outdated?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: asgeirtj on Mon, 22 June 2015, 16:30:58
So is the OP still what people should be doing?  Or is it outdated?

Here's my mini guide to lubing (source: read all this thread and took down notes, watched videos, guides, personal experience after lubing several boards)

This is the best thing to do

Buy GH thick lube for clears browns and thin for linear

Buy a small paint brush (I use some warhammer brushes, you need two ideally if you're going for two different lubes)

Bonus optional step: buy gh spring lube

Lube these places: tunnels in the bottom switch housing (moderate amount), the leaf where it touches the stem (just a little), the sides of the stem (moderate amount), the front of the stem (only a little or else it will stick).

To get rid of ping 100% put a tiny amount of gh spring lube (gh thick lube will probably work just as well though) at the top and bottom of the spring.  The amount is so tiny that you merely get the top and bottom wet, you don't leave any sticking, you shouldn't be able to see the lube, just see the shine.  I gather that you don't want to put too much as it will drain down and muddle the switch.  I can confirm that putting this little works to remove ping completely, not a whimper of ping for me since I started doing this.

Now it's true that you're essentially double lubing in two places as you're lubing from both sides, but that's just to guarantee that all places will get lubed, after I started double lubing I got more consistent results.  Some guides recommend lubing the hole in the bottom housing but that hasn't made any difference for me. Also someone mentioned upper housing somewhere but I tried it and I didn't notice any difference.

Wfd has a good vid on how to do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EaKBfLB28U.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EaKBfLB28U.)

What i do differently than him: don't lube bottom of stem and lower housing hole.  I put much more lube than him, more like this guy https://imgur.com/a/qPNAw#bEHlfJ2. I really like it well lubed and extra buttery smooth (like some people have talked about here), I haven't really ever overlubed a switch so don't worry about that.  And I don't dip the springs, I just do the top and bottom with a brush.

I find it easisest to just use a wooden toothpick to open the switches.  I use max keyboard switch tester to put the bottom housing into while I lube it and it is a good placeholder for when I put the things back into the switch.  I just use my fingers to hold the stem while lubing it.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Fri, 03 July 2015, 20:33:56
Here are my experiences: (thick lube: 5000cst silicone + super lube with ptfe from WASD, thin lube: 800cst silicone)

Cherry MX Clear
Lubed the spring with a thick lube, a lot of it
Lubed the stem guides / switch bottom - thin lube from now on
Lubed the switch top, side guides
Lubed the stem (pretty much all of it, including the parts that touch the metal leafs and the pole)
Result: Best switch I've used, no scratch, no ping, no electronical issues, a thocky and firm bottom down experience - might use thick lube for all parts, the thin lube weared down fast, yet the improvement is still there - the tactile experience is still much more smooth and pronounced

Cherry MX Blue
Full lubing: No sound
Spring lubing: Sound fades away as the lube jumps to the stem, sound gets reduced significantly, yet there is still a very weak click remaining after minutes of testing
Spring bottom lubing: Eliminates the ping, preserves the click, as a result, I will only lube the switch bottoms of my clicky switches, anything more than that messes with the click

Some thoughts: The lube definitely moves, so I don't think lubed keyboards would be fit for travel, especially air travel, the lube could get everywhere, the worst scenario is an electronical issue, but I have a hunch the switch keeps on working even when the metal leafs are lubed, as no one experienced/reported issues, so probably keyboards with clicky switches should be lubed very carefully and sparingly, and for linears/tactile switches, it's hard to go wrong, I say go crazy with the lube, worst case scenario, it would pop for 5-10 clicks, than the lube would move down and leave you with an improved click expeirence
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 04 July 2015, 09:31:59
How long does the lube last before it starts to go back go normal so to speak?
if you use krytox? it will continue being slippery until after your great great great grandchildren pass the keyboard down to their progeny.

krytox has many fun properties:

1) immune to every common and uncommon solvent. in fact, the only compounds that are known to break down krytox are something called lewis acids. the easiest way to make a lewis acid is to mix hydrochloric acid with iron (II). (note that teh hcl itself won't do a damned thing to krytox.) once you tend to the reaction and dry the material into crystals, you can then add distilled water to yield iron (III) chloride. this is a lewis acid. even then, it takes quite a while for a lewis acid (an hour or two) to break down the polymers in krytox.

2) krytox has high surface tension. my krytox mixes are designed to maximize surface tension while maintaining workability. that is, i spent a whole bunch of time playing around with the compounds and having dupont make batches of grease and oil to my specs in order to make sure that thin layers of lubricant do not migrate. krytox stayed where you put it, basically.

3) krytox oil does not vaporize. the pressure and/or vacuum and/or heat required to cause krytox oil into it gaseous phase requires either putting it in a bottle at the bottom of the marianas trench, shooting it into outer space (and even then, most of it would just laugh and enjoy being there.) i sometimes clean off excess lube from lubricated metal parts by hitting them with a butane torch and then dunking the part into water. this slags impurities and melts the ptfe onto the part. mechanical bonds between the ptfe and oil form so that the lubricant layer approaches nm thickness.

anyway, so what's crucial in applying krytox is you apply very thin layers. if you accidentally overlube a part, you can wipe off the excess lube with a microfiber cloth, or (and this is counterintuitive) dunk it in water and then let it air dry. krytox is extremely hydrophobic and is basically insoluble in water. (there exist pfpe-like macromolecules that are somewhat soluble in fluids, but the copolymer structure that is soluble does not occur in krytox)

oh, and w/rt contamination (collecting dirt), for small amounts of contaminant, the oil is slippery enough that small amounts of dirt get "trapped" inside the relatively tight copolymer structure. that said, if you dump sand into your keyboard, you will saturate its ability to capture the contaminant and accelerate wear on the parts over time.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 04 July 2015, 09:59:17
After mkawa's promotion and researching krytox more, I decided to get myself some krytox too - I was under the impression that all of these lubes were roughly the same and silicone based, I had no idea that krytox didn't include any silicone and had such commendable properties

Anyway, I'm thinking of getting Krytox 105 and 205 to mix and use, but honestly I have no idea how thick and thin they are, I would appreciate some advice (buying advice, for a vide variety of mixing and lubrication)
I also need some extremely thick lube for the costar stabiliser inserts, the WASD lube is not thick enough, it wears out in a week or so
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 04 July 2015, 11:20:53
I used krytox 204 on 62g clears, which people have though was weird, but I like how they feel compared to any other lube I have used, but maybe I have been applying too much
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 04 July 2015, 16:34:09
krytox greases consist of: ptfe flakes and some binders (very little, but all are some variant on ptfe with about the same degree of fluorination). an oil is then mixed slowly into the bulk flake until it reaches the consistency of peanut butter. the oil is actually the really chemically shocking part. perfluoropolyether (PFPE) is a viscous fluid that some very clever fellow came up with quite a while ago, but his discover gained very little traction until recently. the key idea behind the behavior and use of PFPE copolymer is that it has unique chemical stability; it is effectively inert. the notion of a polymer bulk substance, especially one that is composed of heterogenous polymer chains, is something that very few macromolecular substances can claim.

What do I mean by inert? Imagine a noble gas in liquid phase, and those are more or less the properties you get with PFPE. As I mentioned above, lewis acids are known to degrade PFPE bulk, but it's unclear to me how much extra energy has to be put into that reaction for it to cause serious degradation because:

the polymers that comprise PFPE have zero valence at their externally facing elements, which are all fluorine (hence we say that it is a fluorine capped substance). further, because fluorine has such high valence, and we know that each fluorine cap is fully bonded into its monomer, the energy needed to separate the fluorine caps from their polymer groupings is extremely high.

as an aside, ptfe (trade name teflon), polytetrafluorethylene gains its relative inertness and extremely low coefficient of friction to the exact same phenomenon, but to a lesser degree. in fact, ptfe is partially fluorine capped. hence, in order to heavily degrade bulk ptfe homopolymer, a much larger amount of energy is needed than with most plastics.

so, to recap: krytox oil is a polymer substance known as PFPE. krytox grease is a semisolid that consists of ptfe flakes mixed into PFPE oil. (and actually this is the other really amazing thing about krytox branded materials: the relative inertness of these two substances means that they will refuse to chemically bond with each other. there are super fascinating mechanical connections between the specific heterogenous PFPE mixture that is used to mechanically bind the ptfe flakes into a matrix formed by the PFPE. there is some incredibly fascinating breakthrough research happening right now on the solubility of electrolytes into PFPE-like bulk substances. ionic lithium is extremely unstable, and DMC, the substrate in which lithium in batteries is held, is also fairly unstable. however, it turns out that there are interesting monomeric combinations of DMC and PFPE that have no flash point, but still maintain lithium solubility. if this research pans out, it would be a significant breakthrough in energy storage technology)

OK, great, so products:

the designation GPL means general purpose lubricant, as they have multiple lines with various attitude for, eg, actually shooting into space.. the naming scheme is GPL {1,2}0{1...7} such that 10X is an oil, and 20X is a grease. the names are exactly as straightforward as you would think: 201 is ptfe plus 101. 202 is ptfe plus 102, and so on. this seems non-obvious, since they all have the same dynamic density and the same consistency at room temperature, but that is only because a product design decision was made to produce only greases that feel like peanut butter. go figure.

hence, if you get 105 and 205 and mix them together, the result is a 205-like material that has a higher ratio of oil to ptfe flake. this is not a bad thing. krytox greases are very hard to apply to tiny things like switch parts in the exact same way that peanut butter would be. so you can think of "thick krytox" as being lots of 205 and a bit of 105, and "thin krytox" as being lots of 105 and a bit of 205. it's a bit more complex than that, because the 101 is less viscous at room temperature than 102, which is less viscous than 103, and so on.

oh, and yes, i've tried applying 20x directly on various things, but when it comes down to it, the reason why the 20x greases are the consistency of smashed legumes is because that's the correct dynamic viscosity of grease for packing large high pressure bearings. so i've definitely come down on the less viscous side over the years.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 04 July 2015, 16:41:38
I think the folks over at Dupont would have a nice laugh if they knew we were using their industrial grade lubricants for our keyboards.   :)) :))
they did. the first time we talked, my rep literally spent 5 minutes uncontrollably laughing his butt off. at one point he had to mute his mic.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 04 July 2015, 16:53:29
That was a very interesting read mkawa, thank you

At this point, I will probably buy various 20* 10*'s over amazon (Likely 105,205 and 207 for the stabs) - get them sent quickly over DHL, and hope customs are in a good mood
I'm not sure how to declare them, Krytox sounds a lot like medication - I initially skipped on quality lubes just for this reason, as I was afraid they could cause issues at customs
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 04 July 2015, 17:02:03
PM me.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Thumper_ on Mon, 06 July 2015, 02:09:07
So i lubed my stock browns and for the first hour they felt really outta-space like, but i really like the way it turned out. I used Zeals Lube on the Spring, stem and sliders.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 20 July 2015, 06:16:22
Here's ~$75 worth of Krytox, hand and switches for scale

[attachimg=1]

I had linear greys lying around, so I quickly opened one, applied GPL105 on the stem/spring without even removing them, extremely small amounts, normally I lube the spring, stem and housing thoroughly with a brush, but I just dripped very teeny amounts of GPL105 instead, since I was in a lazy mood

Impressively, even with a 20 second sloppy lube job, the ping is gone on the linear grey switch - very impressive

If I could do it all over again, I would buy from the bigger sizes, I got 0.5oz 0.5oz 1oz packages as I was afraid larger ones could cause customs issues (larger amounts to freely mix them to my liking without worries)

The linear scratch is still there tho, it's either that or minimal bubbling from the lube, so I'm glad I got the 205 too

But for the extremely lazy out there, you can just buy a bottle of 1oz GPL105, open the switch, lube several points without even removing the stem, close, enjoy

My next quest is Cherry MX Green lubrication, I will likely try lubing only the spring/switch bottom first, as anything more might cause the lube to jump to the stem and prevent the click, reason for lubing in this case is ping prevention
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 20 July 2015, 07:35:12
Here is my review of multiple lubes, applied all of them the same way, superficially without removing the stem, on extremely pingy and scratchy grey linears: (the keypress spreads the lube/oil, so from my experience, application detail doesn't make any noticeable difference)

GPL105: Works immediately, reduces scratching, eliminates the ping, for some reason the movement is a bit sandy rather than scratchy
GPL207: Disappointed by the viscosity, it's oil by my standards and not grease (I even wonder whether it decomposed into oil and grease and the grease is in there, but likely not, it's a 440cst oil) - better than GPL105, I would just go ahead and apply this to all the parts, compared to GPL105, the scratching is slightly lower
Silicone 5000cst grease/oil: I was expecting this to be better than the Krytox's, but it's not, however that are very close, Krytox's cover the applied area faster, after I closed the switch I heard the ping for 2-3 presses, after that it disappeared, the scratch is higher than the Krytox's

My honest advice would be: Get GPL207, apply it everywhere but the metal leaf in tiny amounts - Krytox wins in terms of claimed longevity

Feeling wise speaking, I don't think I could differentiate between the 3 of them when typing, the silicone would likely feel better before it washes down - but I know that it washes down fast, otherwise, when you first apply it, the keypress experience is almost pneumatic (Have a silicone lubed tactile keyboard, it lost that feeling, however it still provides a scratchless, pingless, pure typing experience after a month)

Krytox greases are at the sub-1000 cst range, there are even 100.000 cst magnitude RC-Silicone oils out there, for the adventurous, they might provide a completely different experience - I could only test 5000cst silicone, going to use GPL207 for my next builds, however, it's not viscose enough for stabiliser inserts (far from it, but since the WASD-lube also washes down after a week, I might as well try GPL207 there too)

Edit: Indeed the first thing that comes out of GPL207 is the dissolved oil, after that oil, grease comes out, applied the GPL207's grease to an MX Blue's switch's bottom, it successfully prevented the ping while keeping the click, impressive once again
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 20 July 2015, 10:11:26
The gpl 20x series are greases with the same consistency (peanut butter). The oil can separate in shipment, but it's just physical settling and only happens in bulk material. If you are only getting oil from your 200 series you need to remix the grease.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 20 July 2015, 10:38:19
The gpl 20x series are greases with the same consistency (peanut butter). The oil can separate in shipment, but it's just physical settling and only happens in bulk material. If you are only getting oil from your 200 series you need to remix the grease.

Now that I opened the 207, it's out of the question, but gently nudging the grease pack seems like a good idea to at least mix it back to a degree
Mixing is also out of the question since the whole thing is 0.5oz'es, 0.2of it would probably be wasted in the process :D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 01 August 2015, 19:18:09
I have to say I like silicone lube a bit more, it's smoother, it's silent compared to krytox

There is this little "bubbling" sound with Krytox that doesn't seem to go away, it was more like a "pop" with silicone and it went away with just a little bit of typing

I don't know what the long run results will be, but for a first impression silicone lube wins, imo

I would still use Krytox again for a future build, however If I knew the sound will likely be permanent, I would segment my tactile switches too, to put the bubbly switches into alphas/num-row or something, I have one in my spacebar right now, it's very slightly annoying, since I'm paying attention to it at this stage, but for regular usage, it's ignorable, and I'm hoping with some breaking in it will go away

I also lube the switch top part where the stem touches the switch top, the sound might be stem hitting that lube at each bottom-up, or it might be the lubed stem arms that cause a bubbling sound as the stem rubs the metal leaf

TL;DR: If you have silicone lube, and if you're wondering whether you really need Krytox, you probably don't
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 01 August 2015, 19:29:37
How much lube are you using? I've never had lube add any sounds.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Lastpilot on Sat, 01 August 2015, 19:34:03
I have to say I like silicone lube a bit more, it's smoother, it's silent compared to krytox

There is this little "bubbling" sound with Krytox that doesn't seem to go away, it was more like a "pop" with silicone and it went away with just a little bit of typing

I don't know what the long run results will be, but for a first impression silicone lube wins, imo

I would still use Krytox again for a future build, however If I knew the sound will likely be permanent, I would segment my tactile switches too, to put the bubbly switches into alphas/num-row or something, I have one in my spacebar right now, it's very slightly annoying, since I'm paying attention to it at this stage, but for regular usage, it's ignorable, and I'm hoping with some breaking in it will go away

I also lube the switch top part where the stem touches the switch top, the sound might be stem hitting that lube at each bottom-up, or it might be the lubed stem arms that cause a bubbling sound as the stem rubs the metal leaf

TL;DR: If you have silicone lube, and if you're wondering whether you really need Krytox, you probably don't
Popping sound typically means you used too much lube and its creating air bubbles when the plunger goes into the lower housing. :[ It does not go away with time.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 01 August 2015, 19:46:35
The lube is white, when used sparingly it becomes transparent, I lay a thin layer, however I make sure the color is slightly more than transparent at places

The reason for this is the pneumatic keypress experience that I'm after, the lube isn't too extreme, but it's enough to create just a little bit of friction to enhance the keypress experience

I'm using 62g activation springs from MK, I tested some switches with coins, they are closer to 100g on bottom downs :)

The sound is more of an issue during testing, when you pay attention to it, however during regular typing it blends in, I'm hoping the switches would break in just a little bit

Some switches also turned out to be smoother than others, I didn't segment them too well and ended up with a slightly stiff command switch that I press with my thumb, so If anyone is going to attempt something similar, I think it's a good idea to put the lighter switches to the keys that are pressed with the thumb

I think the sound is a bit related to this, it might be coming from the stem, it's also probably from switches that have a randomly strong tactile bump, as the mellow bumped ones seem more silent

Except for the command switch, I have no regrets, but I just don't want to remove the keycaps, open the case, re-solder the keyboard, just to mellow-down a switch by 10-15g
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Lastpilot on Sat, 01 August 2015, 20:54:57
Okay. Let me say that I do not by any means type these words with any intention of insulting you or causing any harm. I am only trying to share as much of my insight on your issue as possible.

The lube is white, when used sparingly it becomes transparent, I lay a thin layer, however I make sure the color is slightly more than transparent at places

The reason for this is the pneumatic keypress experience that I'm after, the lube isn't too extreme, but it's enough to create just a little bit of friction to enhance the keypress experience
With that much lube you might be taking the cherry switch outside of its design intentions. Lubrication is lubrication - assisting and preserving the components being used. Chasing pneumatic (or rather in this case hydraulic) experiments will always result in inconsistencies because the housing is not designed for that much liquid.

I made similar mistakes on my first lube job because I thought it felt nice. However, trying to utilize that amount of lube inside a switch is just not practical. It's just about impossible to recreate a consistent switch when you are working with that much moving lubrication (which explains your tactile bump variation). Krytox travels - and even moreso when used in high volume. With that much lube, storing your board upside down will lubricate your caps. Normal daily use will see much of the lubrication will seep into the PCB and keyboard housing.

I'm using 62g activation springs from MK, I tested some switches with coins, they are closer to 100g on bottom downs :)
"62g" typically refers to the approximate weight needed for the stem to reach actuation point in a switch - not full bottom down. If you want to take a look at bare spring forces (not including friction from leaf) see this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46449.0

Pictures and graphs do not work but there is a table in there. I've just PM'ed the OP asking him to restore the images since it looks like he personally hosted them.


The sound is more of an issue during testing, when you pay attention to it, however during regular typing it blends in, I'm hoping the switches would break in just a little bit

Some switches also turned out to be smoother than others, I didn't segment them too well and ended up with a slightly stiff command switch that I press with my thumb, so If anyone is going to attempt something similar, I think it's a good idea to put the lighter switches to the keys that are pressed with the thumb

I think the sound is a bit related to this, it might be coming from the stem, it's also probably from switches that have a randomly strong tactile bump, as the mellow bumped ones seem more silent

Except for the command switch, I have no regrets, but I just don't want to remove the keycaps, open the case, re-solder the keyboard, just to mellow-down a switch by 10-15g
Lubing methods have many varieties and controversies, but if anything defines a "successful" lube job, it is consistency across the board. The tactility bump or smoothness should not vary across individual switches.  This is another symptom of over-lubing, but can also be a symptom of a bent contact leaf.

To find the source of the popping sound just do a full press and full release very slowly and see what contact points are being made or separated. You can study the travel of a switch by testing an open one. The easier way would be to observe through a clear switch top.

With that being said, I'm almost positive this is excessive lube in the plunger/topspring/understem contact point, because that's the only time I've encountered the sound while using "thick" krytox with MX Clears. You can test this by pressing and releasing the switch within the bottom half of the travel (meaning staying down after acutuation -> bottoming out -> releasing only so far without touching the bump -> repeating) If you go slow enough you should hear the pop right before and/or right after bottoming out, which means the plunger is pushing air into the remaining lubrication that has settled at the bottom of your switch and popping air bubble(s).

Okay, phew. I hope that helps.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 01 August 2015, 22:04:07
Thanks a lot for your insight

The main reason of lubing is to suppress/eliminate the imperfections of the Cherry switch, so in that regard, this lube job is indeed initially not very successful, as it potentially introduced a potentially new imperfection, my application layer is probably 0.2mm thin at most by the way, so it's not really too excessive in my opinion, I just laid down a layer of lube to a baby-food jar and lubed 2 keyboards with it, using a brush, there is still some left, I guess only comparative applications and side-by-side tests could reveal the truth at this point

I honestly have no idea currently about where the sound comes from, it might even be native to the tactile grey stems or an imperfection of the leafs

If I detected this issue before, I would probably inspect what it was and eliminate that source, currently it's really hard to achieve (with clicky switches for example, I eliminate about half of the switches as they don't click well, something like this might be needed)

After further inspection, it seems to happen right after the stem pushes the leaf after an activation (so it happens at the deactivation)

It could be from lube/lubing, or it might be the native sound of these stems, at this point I'm not sure, my previous experience was with clear stems and silicone lubes, and I don't recall anything like this (it's not a controlled experiment, so these are mostly observations overall)

It only happens at fast keypresses, I guess at this point, only time will tell whether it will wear off, as I didn't finish my secondary keyboard yet, I don't have the ability to open up a switch and investigate it, after working on keyboards for weeks, I'm not too interested in it either, one thing is for sure tho, after using these lubed switches, non-lubed clears are light-years behind, with those, I can hear the springs cringing, even if this keyboard is over-lubed and forever haunted with pops,bubbles, I will enjoy using it :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Lastpilot on Sat, 01 August 2015, 22:32:00
I see. I don't think I've ever encountered noise that happens only at fast key presses, so it could be another problem entirely.

If it makes you feel any better the first board I lubed had popping sounds and I used it for about a year before finally doing a proper rebuild lol. And yes, it is still way better than a stock board!

Well I wish you luck with your next build. I'm sorry I couldn't help much.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 01 August 2015, 23:01:31
I see. I don't think I've ever encountered noise that happens only at fast key presses, so it could be another problem entirely.

If it makes you feel any better the first board I lubed had popping sounds and I used it for about a year before finally doing a proper rebuild lol. And yes, it is still way better than a stock board!

Well I wish you luck with your next build. I'm sorry I couldn't help much.

Thanks, I'm hoping it's just the sound of the bump/friction and it will go away with time, I likely picked it up as the spacebar amplifies the sound and the lube eliminates any other sounds

I might also do something similar :) Each keyboard seems to have at least some kind of problem, a minor scratch sound is not that big of a deal I guess, I'm really overwhelmed after days of keyboard stuff, so an instant investigation is unlikely

Yet there is still that lingering curiosity, so I will likely uncover the issue and share my findings at one point in the future
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Fri, 25 September 2015, 08:04:09
As a small update, minor sound imperfections go away in time, and are generally not noticeable during normal usage

As another interesting thing, once you lubricate all the switches/switch-components, approximately half the switches produce a small tingling, I'm guessing this originates from the metal leafs, as changing the springs didn't change the sound, but once again, this is not noticeable during normal usage, yet easily noticeable during testing
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: OperationT on Thu, 08 October 2015, 00:33:36
Phew, just read through the whole thread  :)). First, thank you all for the accumulating the helpful knowledge on this thread.

I finally got my 62g, 65g, 68g springs ready for the Ergo Clear mod, but I still have some questions regarding lubing, if you could so kindly provide your expertise.

1) I don't want to dampen bottom-out clack and upstroke-sound. Is it correct that lubing these spots will dampen these sounds: the stem pole  (that inserts into the spring), the bottom housing hole (where spring goes), and the spring itself? Because the stem pole is the part that hits the bottom of the switch when bottoming-out, and the oil dampens the sound?
2) I want to eliminate ping, but given that I don't want to dampen the bottoming-out sound, would it be accurate to say that I should use just enough Victorinox oil on the springs to eliminate the ping, while in order to preserve clack/upstroke sound as much as possible?
3) I want to preserve 100% tactility. Lubing which part of the switch risks decreasing tactility? The two "legs" that comes in contact with the gold metal leaf?

(I plan on using the VPF-1506 + GPL-206 mix for stem slider and housing rails, and Victorinox oil for stem pole, the bottom housing hole, and the spring.)

Any help is appreciated!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 08 October 2015, 02:09:33
1) You don't, or do you?

I have the stem pole lubed just slightly, I would say that it makes the bottom-down sound more homogenous, but I didn't prove it by comparing it to a non-lubed one, don't lube the pole/hole much, otherwise you will create yourself a sticky switch, which will cause sticking sounds

2) You are confused regarding how things get together, the spring goes around the hole/pole, it isn't connected to them, it just wraps around them, so go ahead and lube the spring with ease of mind, don't lube the top part of the spring too much

3) If you like the tactility as it is, don't lube the legs, they are already pre-lubed with silicone lube, just leave that lube as it is

If you have to be extremely safe, just lube the bottom of the spring and the sliders of the stem, it sounds like that's what you want

Also why bring Victorinox to the mix?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: OperationT on Thu, 08 October 2015, 02:53:38
1) You don't, or do you?

I have the stem pole lubed just slightly, I would say that it makes the bottom-down sound more homogenous, but I didn't prove it by comparing it to a non-lubed one, don't lube the pole/hole much, otherwise you will create yourself a sticky switch, which will cause sticking sounds

2) You are confused regarding how things get together, the spring goes around the hole/pole, it isn't connected to them, it just wraps around them, so go ahead and lube the spring with ease of mind, don't lube the top part of the spring too much

3) If you like the tactility as it is, don't lube the legs, they are already pre-lubed with silicone lube, just leave that lube as it is

If you have to be extremely safe, just lube the bottom of the spring and the sliders of the stem, it sounds like that's what you want

Also why bring Victorinox to the mix?

Hi Khan,

Forgive my questions for being so specific. The details actually matter to me  :)

1) It wasn't a typo when I said I don't want to dampen bottoming-out, but I understand your asking for clarification, because I am equally surprised that everyone seems to like their keyboard being dampened by lubrication. For the same reason I didn't enjoy o-rings. I very much enjoy the clack when bottoming-out as well as the sound when the key cap returns on the upstroke. I just don't like the other additional sound of the ping.

By "homogenous", do you mean a) the bottoming-out noises that a single key makes in a single key-stroke is of a similar quality, or b) the bottom-out noises of all the keys on the keyboard are of similar quality?

2) I was indeed confused - thanks for clearing that up. Why do you recommend not lubing the top part of the spring too much?

3) Just to be certain, these are the legs we are both referring to, right?
 [attach=1]

I intend to use Victorinox for the springs, as it was quite frequently recommended on this thread (high viscosity oil for eliminating ping). I just got mixed up with how the switch is put together, so my revised use on Victorinox is only on the spring (not on the stem pole or housing hole anymore).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 08 October 2015, 03:31:03
I mean (a), a single key sounds great, not extremely sure about uniformity, but there isn't any easily noticeable non-uniformity

3) Yes

If you like switches being scratchy sounding, if you like the bottom down/up sounds as they are, you can just go ahead any only lubricate the spring, I also love the bottom/up down sounds, and they are always there, even if you lube those sections, lubing can't prevent sounds other than the ping, it only changes them (not too much at that, I'm not entirely sure even if the change is noticeable, but I lube just in case, comparing to a non-lubed keyboard, a lubed one is lightyears ahead, so I'm guessing it works overall)

I have a Cherry MX Green keyboard, I only lubricated the spring bottom, since luricating anything else prevents the click, only lubing the spring bottom prevented the ping while leaving everything else as they are

Clicky switches are more risky, yet with a tactile switch, you can lube more than the spring bottom, even if the lube jumps from the spring, it shouldn't cause a severe issue, while on a clicky switch, the risk is real

Another great advice is, buy 10s of switches, experiment on them, mark the switches, test the switches, use the method you like

With tactile's you will see that lubing everything provides great results, with clicky switches, the only thing that worked for me was the spring-bottom lubed ones, everything else failed, it seems to me like you approach tactile's like I approached clicky's
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jaesen on Sat, 31 October 2015, 05:39:24
Hey guys, what should I use for the stem hole and the stem? Thinking of using high viscosity oil but i'm not certain if oils are for stems/stem holes. I'm still in the planning phase of my  build and so far I have the following for lubing my clears:

Victorinox high viscosity oil on the spring's top and bottom and the stem and stem hole.
Geekhackers V2 from ZealPC on the stem slider, slider rails, leaves and stem front (the part that goes in contact with the leaves).

I already have the lubricants on their way - I just want to confirm I'm using a suitable product (not the product quality but rather the type...oil/grease etc.) for all the different areas. Wouldn't want to use something incompatible and completely ruin my switches :(

Also is it okay to use Geekhackers V2 on the stabilisers as well or is it not recommend to use a blend for the stabilizers?

Thanks in advance! ^_^
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 31 October 2015, 10:37:34
Hey guys, what should I use for the stem hole and the stem? Thinking of using high viscosity oil but i'm not certain if oils are for stems/stem holes. I'm still in the planning phase of my  build and so far I have the following for lubing my clears:

Victorinox high viscosity oil on the spring's top and bottom and the stem and stem hole.
Geekhackers V2 from ZealPC on the stem slider, slider rails, leaves and stem front (the part that goes in contact with the leaves).

I already have the lubricants on their way - I just want to confirm I'm using a suitable product (not the product quality but rather the type...oil/grease etc.) for all the different areas. Wouldn't want to use something incompatible and completely ruin my switches :(

Also is it okay to use Geekhackers V2 on the stabilisers as well or is it not recommend to use a blend for the stabilizers?

Thanks in advance! ^_^

Can't comment on your general lube choices, they don't sound good, I would just stick to pure Krytox's and mix them myself

Other than this, don't lube the stem/hole too much, I just lube the stem pole with a dry brush, the same brush I use for all around lubing, and make sure the bottom of the stem's pole has some lube too, with hopes that it dampens the sound just a little bit

However, if you apply too much, you will make things 10 times worse as the stem pole will always produce weird sticking sounds

Honestly, I can't even detect whether my stem pole/hole lubing makes any change, so you might skip it too, spring + stem makes the most change
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jaesen on Sat, 31 October 2015, 11:03:39
Hey guys, what should I use for the stem hole and the stem? Thinking of using high viscosity oil but i'm not certain if oils are for stems/stem holes. I'm still in the planning phase of my  build and so far I have the following for lubing my clears:

Victorinox high viscosity oil on the spring's top and bottom and the stem and stem hole.
Geekhackers V2 from ZealPC on the stem slider, slider rails, leaves and stem front (the part that goes in contact with the leaves).

I already have the lubricants on their way - I just want to confirm I'm using a suitable product (not the product quality but rather the type...oil/grease etc.) for all the different areas. Wouldn't want to use something incompatible and completely ruin my switches :(

Also is it okay to use Geekhackers V2 on the stabilisers as well or is it not recommend to use a blend for the stabilizers?

Thanks in advance! ^_^

Can't comment on your general lube choices, they don't sound good, I would just stick to pure Krytox's and mix them myself

Other than this, don't lube the stem/hole too much, I just lube the stem pole with a dry brush, the same brush I use for all around lubing, and make sure the bottom of the stem's pole has some lube too, with hopes that it dampens the sound just a little bit

However, if you apply too much, you will make things 10 times worse as the stem pole will always produce weird sticking sounds

Honestly, I can't even detect whether my stem pole/hole lubing makes any change, so you might skip it too, spring + stem makes the most change
Thanks for your input! Geekhackers v2 is a mixture of Krytox 1506 and 206. I would have used the DuPont silicone teflon everybody uses instead of Victorinox but that stuff isn't available here or not the DuPont brand anyways.

I'll keep all your tips in mind!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 31 October 2015, 12:23:46
DuPont isn't available here either, before krytox's I was using rc silicone oils, can't vouch for the longevity as I haven't used them for long, but they leave a better initial impression

In any case, most lubes work ok. - just make sure you don't use too much, it's also a good idea to test the method you are going to use on a test switch, use that switch, see how it responds, how it sounds etc.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: asgeirtj on Sat, 31 October 2015, 19:18:59
I second that lubing the hole and the bottom of the stem doesn't do anything, i use o-rings/trampoline mod anyway.

this video
really helps

his high viscosity = geekhack thick lube for tactile switches/thin geekhack lube for linears
you can use victorinox or geekhack spring lube for the springs to get rid of ping, you only need to wet the top and bottom every so slightly, no need to dip the whole thing like this guy.  I also put a little bit more lube than this guy, I'd test a few switches and put more and more lube until they start to feel gummy.  I also do the leaf where the slider legs touch them.  It might seem redundant to the leaf and also the legs since it's the same area but I do it to make sure everything is covered.  The same applies to the channels/stem sides.  I once only ever did one of those things and some switches didn't come out as smooth as a result.  Lastly you should lube the channels/side of the stem well, but be wary of putting too much on leaf/stem legs as I believe it is more of an factor in gumming up the switch. 

It looks like wfd in that vid uses a little bit to little lube for my tastes at least, check these pics out

(http://i.imgur.com/F268jBV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/jVlMFd8.jpg)

this guy probably uses a little bit too much, I'd maybe put 1/2 of that or 2/3, so a middle ground between wfd and those pics. 

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phoenix1234 on Thu, 03 December 2015, 06:57:46
this guy probably uses a little bit too much, I'd maybe put 1/2 of that or 2/3, so a middle ground between wfd and those pics.

It's personal preference perhaps.
IMO, putting too much lube may have negative effect, so in my case, I only put a thin layer (formula: krytox 204 + 103, 50:50).
(http://i.imgur.com/oC7kLKF.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: rpeterclark on Thu, 03 December 2015, 08:51:37
this guy probably uses a little bit too much, I'd maybe put 1/2 of that or 2/3, so a middle ground between wfd and those pics.

It's personal preference perhaps.
IMO, putting too much lube may have negative effect, so in my case, I only put a thin layer (formula: krytox 204 + 103, 50:50).
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/oC7kLKF.jpg)


The zip-tied screwdrivers are really clever!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: OperationT on Fri, 04 December 2015, 04:01:39
Finally got around doing the Ergo Clear mod! My testing was so encompassing that it took a loooooong time (days) for the whole process. Working with soldering/de-soldering for the first time, and having to desolder LEDs on my WASD Code also contributed to the time length of the mod. Anyhow, I'm very pleased with the mod (plus lube), and it was totally worth the effort.

Springs/Switches Tested:
non-lubed 62g Ergo Clears, lubed 62g Ergo Clears, non-lubed 65g Ergo Clears, lubed 65g Ergo Clears, non-lubed 68g Ergo Clears, non-lubed 65g Zealios, non-lubed 67g Zealios.

Different Lubing Methods Tried:
1) White Fire Dragon's way (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EaKBfLB28U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EaKBfLB28U))
2) Stem pole, housing hole, and spring
3) Spring only
4) Stem sliders and spring only.
Note: #2 to 4 uses the same lube and same amount of lube as #1, just different areas.

Opinions:
- Liked 65g Ergo Clear the most, but 62g is so popular, so I lubed these two to test. 68g was too heavy, similar to stock MX Clears - didn't lube to test.
- Tried lubing everything (the WFD way), and disliked very much. I am the oddball here, but I prefer completely non-lubed over this method, if I had to choose one (there is a better compromise, later discussed). Lubing everything reduced tactility significantly, and dampened bottom out sound significantly - two things I love. The ultra smoothness replacing the scratchiness is a big plus, but not worth sacrificing tactility and bottom-out sound. Just my opinion.

Observations:
- Counter-intuitively, I found that lubing the stem pole and housing hole reduced tactility by a little. I did not bother lubing the stem legs only to see if that has the biggest reduction in tactility, but I strongly believe it does.
- Lubing the spring (w/ Victorinox Oil) reduces the ping significantly. Using WFD's way of lubing the springs was sufficient to reduce ping down to 0-15%. Some switches still ping very softly within said range when held right next to ear - not due to different amounts of lube, but simply because not all springs/switches are identical. However, this is nothing to worry about, as 0-10% will be inaudible in regular typing distance, and with key caps bottoming out to cover this little ping. Applying more lube can lower the ping even more down to 0-5%, but I feel that the added amount of spring lube also dampened tactility a little, hence not recommended.
- De-lubing a switch/spring with Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol, as suggested by many, is not as effective as using soap, and is very time-consuming. I comprehensively and repeated wiped all the parts (hole, guides, pole) to de-lube the switch, but realized that the tactility and bottoming out volume did not return much. Using soap would require too much effort to clean without soaking them in a bucket, which I think destroys the switches. You would be better off just replacing them to save you the time.
- Unrelated: LED heightens the bottoming-out! Key caps (cherry profile) actually hit LEDs (the usual type) on my WASD Code, which causes the bottom out. That means key travel is also reduced! Without the LED, the bottoming out is caused by the insides of the key cap hitting the top of the switch housing. (See the other thread for more details).

Conclusion:
- I lubed the springs and the top halves of the stem sliders only (using WFD's amount and lubrication (Krytox mix and Victorinox oil), afraid I'd lose tactility and bottoming-out volume again. Tactility and bottom-out volume was not sacrificed with this method, however. Lubed springs eliminates ping completely at normal distance and with key caps. Bottom-out sounds much more homogeneous in terms of sound frequencies - high pitches gone and lower pitches remaining, due to elimination of ping (not sure if lubing sliders have anything to do with it), which sounds much more solid and just overall much more pleasant. Scratchiness pretty much eliminated, but not as smooth as lubing the whole switch, of course. However, as stated, the super smoothness is not worth sacrificing tactility and bottom-out volume, IMO. I suppose smoothness is not as important to me than to others, or tactility/bottom-out volume is more important to me, or both.

Hope that helps the next modder. Good luck!   :thumb:
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nhyrum on Mon, 25 January 2016, 00:18:38
mkawa, you make me want to resume my chem e degree... lewis acids are the best. on a slightly different note, my grandpa has a 5 gallon jug of copper (II) chloride that has always facinated me

I have a few questions, but for the sake of keeping things in line, i will research other threads and sections of this place and ask there.

it just so happens i bought krytox 102 a week ago, looks like i can use it to lube my new keyboard(when i decide what i want) and i can also buy me some 205!

this thread has some amazing info on it. a lot of info. you keyboard nerds really get into your stuff! but we all have our nerd-outs! I got a  lot to do to my new keyboard...

Edit: krytox 102 is way too thin for keyboards.  I used about 1/4 oz on my cheap Microsoft keyboard (it needed cleaning. I got it free second hand and it was nasty... Pet hair all up under the keys... ). It runs way to fast. I'll try mixing it with some 205 for my next keyboard and using a paintbrush and a small Tupperware container.
Title: Dan Wang
Post by: lqf2b8 on Sat, 30 January 2016, 12:58:59
That is a roach clip. Blunts just need fingers
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: strict on Sat, 30 January 2016, 17:59:24
That is a roach clip. Blunts just need fingers

(https://i.imgur.com/1e0cTAl.gif)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 30 January 2016, 18:05:30
Can someone tell me the bets mix for linear switch?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:58:35
My previous dream switch was Cherry MX Gray Tactile + 60-62g activation springs (not bottom-down, but rather the activation rated ones MK sells, so they are 80g+) + GPL105/205/207 mix for all contact points, including the springs

Since with usage, these switches become too light and soft, I decided to try something else today, lubed a stock MX Gray, with stock spring, with only GPL207

I was expecting a squishy but hard and tactile switch, yet the resulting switch is initially worse than a Brown, almost no tactility, doesn't feel heavy either, but definitely irritatingly squishy

I'm hoping it might grow on me after a while, maybe improve after the lube washes a bit, yet currently, it's a failed experiment

I will see whether using GPL105 soft lube on the stem-arms will improve the tactility a bit

Mainly I'm trying to match the feeling of silicone-lubed switches, I used to lube all contact points with silicone lubes, the resulting switch was slow-ish/squishy but very tactile, a unique experience

(Edit: As a plus, GPL207 is able to silence the Gray springs, no ping afterwards)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 10 March 2016, 11:38:12
After the GPL207-only experiment, tried various other things

1) Tested GPL105 for the stem arms (the parts that touch the metal leaf) - with GPL207 elsewhere, didn't change the tactility, yet it might be better for longevity, since the friction is low on the leafs
2) Tested GPL205 with 80g activation rated MK springs, the tactility is slightly lower than their 60-62g springs, the spring itself is similar in coils, it's high coiled so the travel seems homogenous, the resulting switch was nice

My conclusion is that the spring weight/behaviour determines the tactility

Other than this, all combinations I tried resulted in switches that would probably be very enjoyable on an actual keyboard, each of them was unique, since I'm looking for "fullness" when typing, I might go with GPL207 + 80g/MK or Gray-Spring - so - I couldn't come to a conclusive decision :)

Probably GPL205 + 80g/MK - to be on the safe side and don't change things too much, GPL207+Gray-Spring would be a huge leap, probably better to save that experience to the next next keyboard
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: bmilcs on Fri, 18 March 2016, 17:17:43
I can finally join the club.

KUL ES-87, GPL 205/Victorinox, springs, stems and sliders. I clipped and lubed stabs, and swapped out stock clear springs with 78g SPRiTs.

My perspective is going to be skewed. I have been using a Pok3r w/ stock clears and I definitely like those springs more than these 78gs. Also, my Pok3r has Vortex PBT and my KUL has stock, lousy ABS.

As far as how the switch feels... it's very nice for typing. I enjoy how smooth the keys feel but as others have pointed out, I think there has been a reduction in tactility. Also, keys feel less snappy. I notice that keys back a bit slower than stock springs but that may be mostly due to the spring used so it's hard to say. I may have used too much lube, but I really didn't use an excessive amount.

I am considering modding my Pok3r but if I do, I need to use less and lower the viscosity. The Krytox 205 is thick and may be adding to the less snappy feeling.

I think I understand why people use lighter springs for these ergo clears. I bet 62/65 is really nice. I usually come close to bottoming out on stock clears but on these lubed switches, I feel more like floating on each press.

Edit: Just going from one keyboard to the other, I definitely think it's the spring. I am afraid of putting my KUL through anymore abuse but I definitely would prefer stock clear springs.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 23 March 2016, 10:55:01
I can finally join the club.

KUL ES-87, GPL 205/Victorinox, springs, stems and sliders. I clipped and lubed stabs, and swapped out stock clear springs with 78g SPRiTs.

My perspective is going to be skewed. I have been using a Pok3r w/ stock clears and I definitely like those springs more than these 78gs. Also, my Pok3r has Vortex PBT and my KUL has stock, lousy ABS.

As far as how the switch feels... it's very nice for typing. I enjoy how smooth the keys feel but as others have pointed out, I think there has been a reduction in tactility. Also, keys feel less snappy. I notice that keys back a bit slower than stock springs but that may be mostly due to the spring used so it's hard to say. I may have used too much lube, but I really didn't use an excessive amount.

I am considering modding my Pok3r but if I do, I need to use less and lower the viscosity. The Krytox 205 is thick and may be adding to the less snappy feeling.

I think I understand why people use lighter springs for these ergo clears. I bet 62/65 is really nice. I usually come close to bottoming out on stock clears but on these lubed switches, I feel more like floating on each press.

Edit: Just going from one keyboard to the other, I definitely think it's the spring. I am afraid of putting my KUL through anymore abuse but I definitely would prefer stock clear springs.

Indeed the spring determines most of the response

The 78g sprit spring should be lighter than stock clear springs, I personally hate light springs, they don't feel good to me, they are also risky lube-wise

Try these springs, they are by far the best springs I've tested and I've tested 10's: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1184

Don't let the 62g rating fool you, it's an activation rating, in reality they are 100+ when lubed - the same mix you used should produce a better result with these springs, but don't take my word for it, definitely try and find your optimal spring

I'm currently using the 80g of MK springs, same spring dynamic, it's a high coiled and long spring, much longer than MX springs, feels better to me (both 60g, 62g, and 80g, whereas their 67g were similar to stock clear springs in terms of behaviour)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: bmilcs on Wed, 23 March 2016, 11:07:01
I can finally join the club.

KUL ES-87, GPL 205/Victorinox, springs, stems and sliders. I clipped and lubed stabs, and swapped out stock clear springs with 78g SPRiTs.

My perspective is going to be skewed. I have been using a Pok3r w/ stock clears and I definitely like those springs more than these 78gs. Also, my Pok3r has Vortex PBT and my KUL has stock, lousy ABS.

As far as how the switch feels... it's very nice for typing. I enjoy how smooth the keys feel but as others have pointed out, I think there has been a reduction in tactility. Also, keys feel less snappy. I notice that keys back a bit slower than stock springs but that may be mostly due to the spring used so it's hard to say. I may have used too much lube, but I really didn't use an excessive amount.

I am considering modding my Pok3r but if I do, I need to use less and lower the viscosity. The Krytox 205 is thick and may be adding to the less snappy feeling.

I think I understand why people use lighter springs for these ergo clears. I bet 62/65 is really nice. I usually come close to bottoming out on stock clears but on these lubed switches, I feel more like floating on each press.

Edit: Just going from one keyboard to the other, I definitely think it's the spring. I am afraid of putting my KUL through anymore abuse but I definitely would prefer stock clear springs.

Indeed the spring determines most of the response

The 78g sprit spring should be lighter than stock clear springs, I personally hate light springs, they don't feel good to me, they are also risky lube-wise

Try these springs, they are by far the best springs I've tested and I've tested 10's: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1184

Don't let the 62g rating fool you, it's an activation rating, in reality they are 100+ when lubed - the same mix you used should produce a better result with these springs, but don't take my word for it, definitely try and find your optimal spring

I'm currently using the 80g of MK springs, same spring dynamic, it's a high coiled and long spring, much longer than MX springs, feels better to me (both 60g, 62g, and 80g, whereas their 67g were similar to stock clear springs in terms of behaviour)

Khaann, where have you been all my life? I have been specifically asking for a response EXACTLY like this. I've tried reddit several times and even posted on here in several subforums. Thank you so much for this info!

I am typing on my KUL ES-87 with 78g 24k removed and stock mx clear springs. I used Victorinox on springs and stem... and GPL205 on the sliders. I did not mix it and I think it's actually making the switches feel heavier than they once were.

My GPL 105 is arriving today and I'm going to mix them. Is 50/50 a good ratio would you say?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: bmilcs on Wed, 23 March 2016, 11:11:54
I can finally join the club.

KUL ES-87, GPL 205/Victorinox, springs, stems and sliders. I clipped and lubed stabs, and swapped out stock clear springs with 78g SPRiTs.

My perspective is going to be skewed. I have been using a Pok3r w/ stock clears and I definitely like those springs more than these 78gs. Also, my Pok3r has Vortex PBT and my KUL has stock, lousy ABS.

As far as how the switch feels... it's very nice for typing. I enjoy how smooth the keys feel but as others have pointed out, I think there has been a reduction in tactility. Also, keys feel less snappy. I notice that keys back a bit slower than stock springs but that may be mostly due to the spring used so it's hard to say. I may have used too much lube, but I really didn't use an excessive amount.

I am considering modding my Pok3r but if I do, I need to use less and lower the viscosity. The Krytox 205 is thick and may be adding to the less snappy feeling.

I think I understand why people use lighter springs for these ergo clears. I bet 62/65 is really nice. I usually come close to bottoming out on stock clears but on these lubed switches, I feel more like floating on each press.

Edit: Just going from one keyboard to the other, I definitely think it's the spring. I am afraid of putting my KUL through anymore abuse but I definitely would prefer stock clear springs.

Indeed the spring determines most of the response

The 78g sprit spring should be lighter than stock clear springs, I personally hate light springs, they don't feel good to me, they are also risky lube-wise

Try these springs, they are by far the best springs I've tested and I've tested 10's: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1184

Don't let the 62g rating fool you, it's an activation rating, in reality they are 100+ when lubed - the same mix you used should produce a better result with these springs, but don't take my word for it, definitely try and find your optimal spring

I'm currently using the 80g of MK springs, same spring dynamic, it's a high coiled and long spring, much longer than MX springs, feels better to me (both 60g, 62g, and 80g, whereas their 67g were similar to stock clear springs in terms of behaviour)

I also think I went a little heavy on the lube, trying to drastically change the perception of each keypress... which doesn't make sense because I really like stock clears. I simply want to make them more fluid. 62g actuation sounds great. I wonder what the actuation force is for these 68g and 78g springs that I bought from MK. They are both 24k SPRiTs.

How do you lube your switches? I need to do some testing I think in order to figure out what I like but I can't accurately assess them without getting a full row of keys. Yanno? I have difficulty judging based on 1-3 keys.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: bmilcs on Wed, 23 March 2016, 11:15:27
I can finally join the club.

KUL ES-87, GPL 205/Victorinox, springs, stems and sliders. I clipped and lubed stabs, and swapped out stock clear springs with 78g SPRiTs.

My perspective is going to be skewed. I have been using a Pok3r w/ stock clears and I definitely like those springs more than these 78gs. Also, my Pok3r has Vortex PBT and my KUL has stock, lousy ABS.

As far as how the switch feels... it's very nice for typing. I enjoy how smooth the keys feel but as others have pointed out, I think there has been a reduction in tactility. Also, keys feel less snappy. I notice that keys back a bit slower than stock springs but that may be mostly due to the spring used so it's hard to say. I may have used too much lube, but I really didn't use an excessive amount.

I am considering modding my Pok3r but if I do, I need to use less and lower the viscosity. The Krytox 205 is thick and may be adding to the less snappy feeling.

I think I understand why people use lighter springs for these ergo clears. I bet 62/65 is really nice. I usually come close to bottoming out on stock clears but on these lubed switches, I feel more like floating on each press.

Edit: Just going from one keyboard to the other, I definitely think it's the spring. I am afraid of putting my KUL through anymore abuse but I definitely would prefer stock clear springs.

Indeed the spring determines most of the response

The 78g sprit spring should be lighter than stock clear springs, I personally hate light springs, they don't feel good to me, they are also risky lube-wise

Try these springs, they are by far the best springs I've tested and I've tested 10's: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1184

Don't let the 62g rating fool you, it's an activation rating, in reality they are 100+ when lubed - the same mix you used should produce a better result with these springs, but don't take my word for it, definitely try and find your optimal spring

I'm currently using the 80g of MK springs, same spring dynamic, it's a high coiled and long spring, much longer than MX springs, feels better to me (both 60g, 62g, and 80g, whereas their 67g were similar to stock clear springs in terms of behaviour)

WAIT. Are those the springs that are supposed to be used for Ergo Clear? It's confusing because 62g is listed as the 'best' for ergo-clear mod... on both the 24k and regular springs you just linked.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 26 March 2016, 04:08:10
Just saw this discussion, notifications arrive 3-5 days late to me, since we had pm's skipping the spring discussion

I lube:
- the spring, especially bottom, but every part
- the switch bottom's slider part
- stem's slider+front+back+pole_bottom+leaf_arms - don't put too much lube on leaf_arms tho
- the switch top's front+bottom + the top parts where the stem touches the top

At all these parts, I use very little lube, but enough to be visible

I did so many experiments, none of them had any critical issues, yet many of them had very different characteristics, so testing is necessary
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: bmilcs on Sat, 02 April 2016, 13:00:09
KHANN, I'd love to see a pictorial where you point to where you're referencing. The Switch top's front bottom? I don't know what this is. Also, you lube the slider's 4 sides? This makes sense.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 02 April 2016, 15:19:09
KHANN, I'd love to see a pictorial where you point to where you're referencing. The Switch top's front bottom? I don't know what this is. Also, you lube the slider's 4 sides? This makes sense.

(i) the parts where the keycap might touch the switch top, in fact, I haven't inspected things too deeply, but I probably lube where the outer pole of the keycap touches the switch, the oval part, I'm guessing it makes the keypress more smooth, now that I think about it

(ii) the second part is where the stem touches the switch top on up-movement, so let's say there is a 1kg spring, when you release that switch, there would be a very noticeable release noise, I lube the section to prevent that noise
With <100g springs tho, I'm unsure whether it makes any difference, tho there was one user who applied a special latex formula there, to completely eliminate the up-sound, it still exists in my switches, I enjoy the sound

sorry, no photos at this time tho :)

my lubing is also repetitive, I lube the same touch-points on both the stem and the switch enclosure, so (ii) is repetitive, while (i) is not
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Fri, 20 May 2016, 14:21:35
ripster was the self-proclaimed #1 Keyboard Expert on the Planet. He had written or contributed to most of the articles in the previous wiki. He had a couple of epic feuds with keyboardlover and harrison. Just before he got himself permabanned, he became the resident epic troll for a short time. He now hangs out at reddit and complains about Geekhack.

The loss of that wiki (due to the R00TW0RM attack), was probably the biggest loss this forum has ever suffered.

I don't understand.  He was the number one contributor to the forum and he was banned because of a squabble with other members.  Maybe this decision was a bit Draconian?

1) I have two greases "Dielectric" and "Traxxas" and I was wondering if anyone had any experience as to which was better for stabilizers?

2) After disassembling the board and reassembling the plate and stablizers, I can see that the manufacturer only lubed the space bar stabilizers.  Is this because the other keys are too light and lube may actually impede movement? Or will the Enter, Backspace etc. keys benefit from some lube also?

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 20 May 2016, 16:06:38
i miss meatball
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Fri, 20 May 2016, 19:01:00
I used the dielectric grease since I did see it referenced once.  The Traxxas grease did not list the ingredients, so I decided not to use it (it was ordered accidentally anyway).

I'm curious about which stabilizers people lubricate.  I put a dab on the space bar with a sharpened piece of pegwood and it certainly made a difference.  I also tried the Enter key and I have to say that I do not see a difference with or without the lube.  This may be why the manufacturer does not lube it anyway. 

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: bmilcs on Fri, 20 May 2016, 19:10:00
I used the dielectric grease since I did see it referenced once.  The Traxxas grease did not list the ingredients, so I decided not to use it (it was ordered accidentally anyway).

I'm curious about which stabilizers people lubricate.  I put a dab on the space bar with a sharpened piece of pegwood and it certainly made a difference.  I also tried the Enter key and I have to say that I do not see a difference with or without the lube.  This may be why the manufacturer does not lube it anyway. 

Any thoughts?

How did you lubricate them? Did you clip them as well? If you haven't already, I recommend desoldering your enter, shift buttons, and backspace. Remove your stabilizers altogether and take them apart. Clip them and then lube all contact points... where any friction can occur.

Clipping them and thoroughly lubing any contact between the metal beam &  any plastic will make a big difference.

I lubed every stabilizer on my 2 boards.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Fri, 20 May 2016, 19:25:30
I sharpened a piece of pegwood to a long, fine tip and very thinly coated the friction points of the stabilizers; less is more.  I have seen videos on snipping the excess length on the friction points of plastic of the stabilizers, but I was worried that this may encourage more side to side wobble.  The keycaps seem to move freely enough as it is.

I have also noticed that with the keycap removed, you can take any stabilizer (cherry) and slide it up, down, left, or right across the surface of the backplate.  I wonder if there would be any advantage so securing the stab. to the plate.  It's only held in place by the little tab which you press in.  This may also be a source of wobble and movement.  You could use rubber cement or some other adhesive which will break down with a solvent in case  you ever have to open it up for some reason.

I think for now I will stick to lubing only the space bars.  If you take a tweezer and lift the stem of the stabilizer up there is no resistance at all and it falls back down.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Suruga Devil on Mon, 30 May 2016, 09:00:31
I have also noticed that with the keycap removed, you can take any stabilizer (cherry) and slide it up, down, left, or right across the surface of the backplate.  I wonder if there would be any advantage so securing the stab. to the plate.  It's only held in place by the little tab which you press in.  This may also be a source of wobble and movement.  You could use rubber cement or some other adhesive which will break down with a solvent in case  you ever have to open it up for some reason.

I have a feeling that this is an intentional design. If the stabilizers were exceedingly precise, the key could get stuck if it was not pressed down fully/evenly. Hence, I would be cautious with all stabilizer mods, since precision may not be conducive to performance. This is all conjecture on my part, so I may be wrong, but it's worth thinking about.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: cyd3r on Sat, 18 June 2016, 21:36:35
Can I just lube the housing,stem,spring sliding points with only "Krytox 100 thin-oil" and stabilisers with a thicker grease like "Krytox 205" ?
I also see people mix their lubrication what's the benefit of mixing lubes ?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Metr0 on Sun, 19 June 2016, 18:13:42
Would this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Finish-Line-Mountain-Chain-120ml/dp/B00365YSTK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1466377749&sr=8-2&keywords=DuPont+Lubricant be a suitable alternative to the Teflon Silicone lubricant? It seems to be the same product just re-branded. Planning on using it on Gateron blues.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phoenix1234 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 18:35:07
Would this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Finish-Line-Mountain-Chain-120ml/dp/B00365YSTK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1466377749&sr=8-2&keywords=DuPont+Lubricant be a suitable alternative to the Teflon Silicone lubricant? It seems to be the same product just re-branded. Planning on using it on Gateron blues.

Yes, it is very likely but you should use krytox instead.

Can I just lube the housing,stem,spring sliding points with only "Krytox 100 thin-oil" and stabilisers with a thicker grease like "Krytox 205" ?
I also see people mix their lubrication what's the benefit of mixing lubes ?
1) Yes, it is just great, krytox 100 is very good for "housing,stem,spring sliding points"

2) Mixing lubes to create a different viscosity point => different feeling

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 23 June 2016, 19:35:53
Off topic, after using an 205-lubed keyboard for 7-8 months, I can no longer differentiate the slide from a non-lubed switch, not that it matters when you get used to the keyboard

I guess there is a honeymoon phase of lubing, for a month or so, the lube hangs around, then it probably shifts to the bottom and only a micro-layer stays behind, so the feeling is not much different than a regular switch

However, the main reason for lubing for me is ping-prevention, I'm pretty sure it's forever, unless the keyboard is soaked upside down for a 100 years or sth.
From my experiments, only a small amount of lube at the spring bottom was enough to prevent ping, in the long run, probably 90% of the lube moves to the bottom

If I wasn't lazy I would probably desolder a solo modifier for science to see what the actual situation is
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: cyd3r on Sat, 25 June 2016, 13:44:13
1) Yes, it is just great, krytox 100 is very good for "housing,stem,spring sliding points"

2) Mixing lubes to create a different viscosity point => different feeling

Does mixing different types of lubricants dampen sound more than just a single lube type? Different feel = dampens differently ?
Also, if i was to eliminate pinging and some of the bottoming-out or upstroke while compromising the feel (maybe heavier?) do I need to mix lubes ? Or does the GPL100 do that just fine?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phoenix1234 on Sun, 26 June 2016, 08:58:21
1) Yes, it is just great, krytox 100 is very good for "housing,stem,spring sliding points"

2) Mixing lubes to create a different viscosity point => different feeling

Does mixing different types of lubricants dampen sound more than just a single lube type? Different feel = dampens differently ?
Also, if i was to eliminate pinging and some of the bottoming-out or upstroke while compromising the feel (maybe heavier?) do I need to mix lubes ? Or does the GPL100 do that just fine?

mixing different types of lubes => create a new lube with a different viscosity (which is good and bad) but it may vary the friction and users may feel differently about it.

In order to eliminate pinging, we may need a high viscosity oil which is even 107 is not high enough so I don't think GPL100 is good for lubing the spring. GPL100 has extremely low viscosity and it may evaporate in matter of weeks so perhaps you may only use it for lubing the stem and the housing.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: japanitrat on Thu, 04 August 2016, 18:32:38
As for the pre-mixed version at techkeys: what does the 1506 after the slash actually mean? So far I am playing with the idea to buy 100 or 103 for some Gateron Blacks (although I really don't want to spend +25 dollars on a 1oz bottle), and maybe 105 or the techkeys thick mix for my Zealios (since GH Lube V3 is sold out on Zeal's site).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: kawasaki161 on Fri, 05 August 2016, 05:52:18
EliteKeyboards MechLube 2 works really great and stays where it is supposed to be (just don't use too much). Generally I'd rather use a thick mixture for all switches then a thin one because they are more stable and don't tend to end up in the lower half like the oils do. I used a few different lube variants (Krytox 105, Geekhackers V3 thin and thick, Mechlube 2) on linear switches and both Geekhackers Thin and Krytox 105 do not stay on the slider at all, if i pop open the switch on those the slider always comes out dry. The Geekhackers thick lube and MechLube 2 are both said to be best for tactile switches since they are thicker lubes, but as long as you don't drown the switch in it they also work great for linears (even with 55g springs).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Fri, 05 August 2016, 06:59:39
EliteKeyboards MechLube 2 works really great and stays where it is supposed to be (just don't use too much). Generally I'd rather use a thick mixture for all switches then a thin one because they are more stable and don't tend to end up in the lower half like the oils do. I used a few different lube variants (Krytox 105, Geekhackers V3 thin and thick, Mechlube 2) on linear switches and both Geekhackers Thin and Krytox 105 do not stay on the slider at all, if i pop open the switch on those the slider always comes out dry. The Geekhackers thick lube and MechLube 2 are both said to be best for tactile switches since they are thicker lubes, but as long as you don't drown the switch in it they also work great for linears (even with 55g springs).

Great advice, thanks, I wonder what "EliteKeyboards MechLube 2" roughly consists of? (I also remember a drama surrounding it)

I roughly agree with Krytox assessments, I have a custom 207/205/105 mix, 205 was the most used one, after a ~year, I'm back to the non-lubed feeling - without any backing, I kind of feel like even silicone RC lubes would stay around longer
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: kawasaki161 on Fri, 05 August 2016, 09:07:47
I kind of feel like even silicone RC lubes would stay around longer

Please remember that the most silicone RC "lubes" actually offer close to no lubrication. I know that because I've done a LOT of RC until a few years ago (I've still got rare stuff around that most RC nerds never even heard of), silicone oil is mainly used because of it's stable viscosity. It is used in diffs and shock absorbers. Especially when used in diffs you can really see the bad lubrication it offers since the ones that are being run as open diffs with real lubrication (even if it is pretty standard grease) last so much longer than the ones that use silicone oil to create a semi-locked diff. It's actually not uncommon to add some grease to the silicone oil when it is used in diffs, in order to make them last longer. Though, there are some that offer lubrication, but those are a mixture of silicone oil and actual components that offer lubrication (for example Team Associated's LRAE6591 or Team Losi's TLR2952). A general rule of thumb is that if it states a viscosity/weight (e.g. 1000cSt) it's very likely to not offer lubrication (again, exceptions probably exist).
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: romevi on Fri, 05 August 2016, 09:26:11
I wonder where MMB has gone?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 05 August 2016, 15:22:03
I heard he quit

Keepo
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 05 August 2016, 18:59:47
removed.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Gajible on Fri, 05 August 2016, 19:51:51
I heard he quit

Keepo

I heard his ego is shoved far up his ass.

You could almost say he... self absorbed

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-5AxFlmK9uI/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: tobsn on Thu, 22 September 2016, 07:03:27
anyone an idea what one would buy in europe? krytox seems extremely expensive here, if you can find it.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: infiniti on Thu, 22 September 2016, 08:38:58
anyone an idea what one would buy in europe? krytox seems extremely expensive here, if you can find it.

Try Pexon PCs; they're UK based and recently stocked some thin and thick mixes: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84724.0
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: tobsn on Thu, 22 September 2016, 16:14:31
Try Pexon PCs; they're UK based and recently stocked some thin and thick mixes: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84724.0

you can buy 20ml of krytox 105/205 for ~25 euro... he's selling 2ml for 11.65 euro.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 22 September 2016, 16:18:17
a man's gotta profit
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Moistgun on Thu, 22 September 2016, 16:27:33
Try Pexon PCs; they're UK based and recently stocked some thin and thick mixes: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84724.0

you can buy 20ml of krytox 105/205 for ~25 euro... he's selling 2ml for 11.65 euro.

Imagine how cheap a barrel of lube would be!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MudoLabudovo on Tue, 04 October 2016, 04:43:22
Excuse me gents, but I may have few questions to ask here:

1) Is it worth lubing vintage blacks, concidering they were used quite a bit and have dirt in them. Did dirt already damage stems and sliders. If I clean them will they be as good as new?

2) I live in Serbia, so shipping is hella lota expensive + the cost of krytox = no roof. The only teflon based lube I was able to find was bicycle chain lube, should I buy it?

3) This is third question?

4) Who's Rem???
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Jesse36m3 on Tue, 04 October 2016, 06:27:20
Not going to lie, I took a leap of faith and tried out this lube I have from my fpv quadcopters.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HT4DLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lubed up a few Zealios on the two opposite sides where the stem slides against the housing .. They feel heavier, smoother, and more fluid. Completely got rid of the pinging and scratchiness. Quieter too.

Will update at a later time. No idea how it will fare in the long run.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Fictiouz on Tue, 04 October 2016, 06:46:10
Not going to lie, I took a leap of faith and tried out this lube I have from my fpv quadcopters.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HT4DLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lubed up a few Zealios on the two opposite sides where the stem slides against the housing .. They feel heavier, smoother, and more fluid. Completely got rid of the pinging and scratchiness. Quieter too.

Will update at a later time. No idea how it will fare in the long run.

Won't this end up pooling in the bottom of the switch? It doesn't look like something thick enough. I may be wrong, but how viscous is the oil?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Jesse36m3 on Tue, 04 October 2016, 07:03:11
Not going to lie, I took a leap of faith and tried out this lube I have from my fpv quadcopters.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HT4DLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lubed up a few Zealios on the two opposite sides where the stem slides against the housing .. They feel heavier, smoother, and more fluid. Completely got rid of the pinging and scratchiness. Quieter too.

Will update at a later time. No idea how it will fare in the long run.

Won't this end up pooling in the bottom of the switch? It doesn't look like something thick enough. I may be wrong, but how viscous is the oil?

Maybe, however I only used a small dab. It's very thick and seems to have left a nice coating on the walls of the housing nicely. Very pleased so far. It feels like the viscosity of a medium maple syrup or a 75W gear oil.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MudoLabudovo on Tue, 04 October 2016, 13:48:14
Not going to lie, I took a leap of faith and tried out this lube I have from my fpv quadcopters.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HT4DLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lubed up a few Zealios on the two opposite sides where the stem slides against the housing .. They feel heavier, smoother, and more fluid. Completely got rid of the pinging and scratchiness. Quieter too.

Will update at a later time. No idea how it will fare in the long run.

Hmm that seems affordable, might as well try it out lul.
But since it's oil, maybe I should try mixing it with some silicone grease, or am I wrong?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: fatpolomanjr on Thu, 06 October 2016, 03:41:14
I swapped a Cherry MX Clear onto a Red switch to get the springy-ness of the red with the tactility of the clear (stock clear/green/black are too heavy for me). There is no sticking despite the wimpier spring from the red. Should I still lube the switch? I think they call this ergo clear switches? I keep reading that you may need to lube the spring, but I am afraid of chattering which was an issue with my brand new Matias Clicky V80 TKL from KBP.

I really like the tactile feel and springy-ness of Cherry MX Blues, but my wife hates the noise. So I'm looking into Ergo Clears or lightweight Zealios.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 06 October 2016, 04:06:28
I swapped a Cherry MX Clear onto a Red switch to get the springy-ness of the red with the tactility of the clear (stock clear/green/black are too heavy for me). There is no sticking despite the wimpier spring from the red. Should I still lube the switch? I think they call this ergo clear switches? I keep reading that you may need to lube the spring, but I am afraid of chattering which was an issue with my brand new Matias Clicky V80 TKL from KBP.

I really like the tactile feel and springy-ness of Cherry MX Blues, but my wife hates the noise. So I'm looking into Ergo Clears or lightweight Zealios.

If you like it, just use it, lube might make the switch stick, depending on the lube

Generally, if something works, it's better to leave it as it is, unless you have issues with it
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MudoLabudovo on Thu, 06 October 2016, 14:50:40
I swapped a Cherry MX Clear onto a Red switch to get the springy-ness of the red with the tactility of the clear (stock clear/green/black are too heavy for me). There is no sticking despite the wimpier spring from the red. Should I still lube the switch? I think they call this ergo clear switches? I keep reading that you may need to lube the spring, but I am afraid of chattering which was an issue with my brand new Matias Clicky V80 TKL from KBP.

I really like the tactile feel and springy-ness of Cherry MX Blues, but my wife hates the noise. So I'm looking into Ergo Clears or lightweight Zealios.

If you like it, just use it, lube might make the switch stick, depending on the lube

Generally, if something works, it's better to leave it as it is, unless you have issues with it

I want to hear your oppinion about this stuff

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Weldtite-TF2-Teflon-Lubricant-Cycle-Bike-Grease-125ml-Headsets-Cranks-BBs-/271574661077?hash=item3f3b1c77d5:g:QlQAAOSweW5U6aLi

Yeah, it's inprovisation, but I don't have dollaz for krytox.

Or ultimatively should I try what Jeasse36something said he gave a shot:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HT4DLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I wanna lube vintage blacks, but wanting alone is not enough :D
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 06 October 2016, 16:27:01
I swapped a Cherry MX Clear onto a Red switch to get the springy-ness of the red with the tactility of the clear (stock clear/green/black are too heavy for me). There is no sticking despite the wimpier spring from the red. Should I still lube the switch? I think they call this ergo clear switches? I keep reading that you may need to lube the spring, but I am afraid of chattering which was an issue with my brand new Matias Clicky V80 TKL from KBP.

I really like the tactile feel and springy-ness of Cherry MX Blues, but my wife hates the noise. So I'm looking into Ergo Clears or lightweight Zealios.

If you like it, just use it, lube might make the switch stick, depending on the lube

Generally, if something works, it's better to leave it as it is, unless you have issues with it

I want to hear your oppinion about this stuff

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Weldtite-TF2-Teflon-Lubricant-Cycle-Bike-Grease-125ml-Headsets-Cranks-BBs-/271574661077?hash=item3f3b1c77d5:g:QlQAAOSweW5U6aLi

Yeah, it's inprovisation, but I don't have dollaz for krytox.

Or ultimatively should I try what Jeasse36something said he gave a shot:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HT4DLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I wanna lube vintage blacks, but wanting alone is not enough :D

I would personally not do it, you never know whether it's going to gather gunk and halt an already weak switch

Up to you tho, everyone gathers their own experience with trials and errors
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MudoLabudovo on Fri, 07 October 2016, 04:43:48
I swapped a Cherry MX Clear onto a Red switch to get the springy-ness of the red with the tactility of the clear (stock clear/green/black are too heavy for me). There is no sticking despite the wimpier spring from the red. Should I still lube the switch? I think they call this ergo clear switches? I keep reading that you may need to lube the spring, but I am afraid of chattering which was an issue with my brand new Matias Clicky V80 TKL from KBP.

I really like the tactile feel and springy-ness of Cherry MX Blues, but my wife hates the noise. So I'm looking into Ergo Clears or lightweight Zealios.

If you like it, just use it, lube might make the switch stick, depending on the lube

Generally, if something works, it's better to leave it as it is, unless you have issues with it

I want to hear your oppinion about this stuff

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Weldtite-TF2-Teflon-Lubricant-Cycle-Bike-Grease-125ml-Headsets-Cranks-BBs-/271574661077?hash=item3f3b1c77d5:g:QlQAAOSweW5U6aLi

Yeah, it's inprovisation, but I don't have dollaz for krytox.

Or ultimatively should I try what Jeasse36something said he gave a shot:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HT4DLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I wanna lube vintage blacks, but wanting alone is not enough :D

I would personally not do it, you never know whether it's going to gather gunk and halt an already weak switch

Up to you tho, everyone gathers their own experience with trials and errors


Well, what would you recommend me as your cheapy non-krytox lube?

Or maybe krytox is the only "secure" way to go since it has been tested by meny members?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MudoLabudovo on Wed, 12 October 2016, 11:32:09
You guys don't quite make sense.
I've read almost entire tread and oh boy, I don't know where my head is.
I just wanted to lube some vintage blacks and I tought it should be simple and not too expensive, I even prepared 20e.
But now all these unicorn expensive krytox mixtures start popping up. I cant even pay international shipping for them.

1.Can I use bicycle lube?

2.Where can I buy DuPont teflon silicone lubricant in europe?

3.Can I escape krytox and enjoy my (non-krytox) lubed vintage mx blacks, or do I absolutely NEED to buy it for PROPPER results and live in cave for the rest of my life?

And one more thing, I have noticed how no one here actually points out if the struggle and price was worth it...
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Moistgun on Wed, 12 October 2016, 11:36:28
You guys don't quite make sense.
I've read almost entire tread and oh boy, I don't know where my head is.
I just wanted to lube some vintage blacks and I tought it should be simple and not too expensive, I even prepared 20e.
But now all these unicorn expensive krytox mixtures start popping up. I cant even pay international shipping for them.

1.Can I use bicycle lube?

2.Where can I buy DuPont teflon silicone lubricant in europe?

3.Can I escape krytox and enjoy my (non-krytox) lubed vintage mx blacks, or do I absolutely NEED to buy it for PROPPER results and live in cave for the rest of my life?

And one more thing, I have noticed how no one here actually points out if the struggle and price was worth it...

If you read through the thread and noone has used bicycle lube, you should get bicycle lube and try it.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: romevi on Wed, 12 October 2016, 11:39:00
Anyone here use the syringe that comes from TechKeys?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: MrBreakfst on Sun, 16 October 2016, 10:08:45
I am in the process of lubricating using this guide at this very moment! :thumb:
Will the silicone teflon lube take any time to "set" or anything? I noticed that the ones that I lubed were a bit stiffer than the others.
Great guide!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Sun, 16 October 2016, 11:19:57
Anyone here use the syringe that comes from TechKeys?
I've used it for topre switches which are far less tedious to lube than MX switches.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: pr0ximity on Sun, 16 October 2016, 11:52:16
And one more thing, I have noticed how no one here actually points out if the struggle and price was worth it...

Literally *all* of the commentary in this community about anything that changes the "feeling" of a mechanical keyboard is completely personal preference. I've rarely, if ever, seen anyone objectively measure anything around "keyfeel" and there are so many variables in play that it wouldn't matter much anyway. It's not a problem, these things are all just subjective.

The only way you can tell 100% for sure if it will be worth it is to do it and find out. Short of that, modding a subset of switches on the actual board in question is as close as you can get to not committing all the way.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Sun, 16 October 2016, 12:26:50
The ping reduction is probably the only objective benefit, I've been using my Krytox lubed keyboard for 1+ years, keypress-wise, It feels normal now, rather than "incredible" - however, the springs are still silent, I suspect they will be ping-free for years to come

I don't think the price is high, but, since the struggle is ~1 full day, or maybe 2 days, and the enjoyment is 100's of days, definitely worth it
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: asgeirtj on Mon, 17 October 2016, 04:23:04
And one more thing, I have noticed how no one here actually points out if the struggle and price was worth it...

Totally worth it, it makes it a whole different keyboard.   
The ping reduction is probably the only objective benefit, I've been using my Krytox lubed keyboard for 1+ years, keypress-wise, It feels normal now, rather than "incredible" - however, the springs are still silent, I suspect they will be ping-free for years to come

I don't think the price is high, but, since the struggle is ~1 full day, or maybe 2 days, and the enjoyment is 100's of days, definitely worth it

Don't know what you're talking about here, all my boards still feel the same after 1-2 years.  Maybe I use more lube than you.

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 17 October 2016, 11:01:19
There are ~60 keys on my keyboard and all of them are bashed heavily and regularly

My spare switches are still slidey, which are prepared the same as switches on my keyboard, but unused

Now, when I compare my keyboard's switches to unlubed tactile's, and these spare switches, they are much closer to the unlubed tactile's

So, obviously, like everything in life, all the good things come to an end

I don't think the amount of lube used would have any effect in the long run, since after a ~month of usage, all the extra lube is worn down, and the stems doesn't dip to the bottom of the sliders to pick up extra lubes.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Simia_4 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 12:01:26
New here but have noticed since i bought a shine 5 mx blue that i really don't care for how clacky and sometimes difficult it is to type on. Would this method of lubing work for this board?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Fictiouz on Wed, 26 October 2016, 12:03:15
New here but have noticed since i bought a shine 5 mx blue that i really don't care for how clacky and sometimes difficult it is to type on. Would this method of lubing work for this board?

It will work but there is a chance that the click will be removed altogether if done incorrectly. Unless that's what you are going for.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Simia_4 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 12:12:03
New here but have noticed since i bought a shine 5 mx blue that i really don't care for how clacky and sometimes difficult it is to type on. Would this method of lubing work for this board?

It will work but there is a chance that the click will be removed altogether if done incorrectly. Unless that's what you are going for.

i don't suppose it would make it more of a brown feel, would it?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Fictiouz on Wed, 26 October 2016, 12:16:47
New here but have noticed since i bought a shine 5 mx blue that i really don't care for how clacky and sometimes difficult it is to type on. Would this method of lubing work for this board?

It will work but there is a chance that the click will be removed altogether if done incorrectly. Unless that's what you are going for.

i don't suppose it would make it more of a brown feel, would it?

IIRC people describe it as very muted. So may have even less definition then a brown. Don't take my word for it though I have never tried lubed tactile clicks before.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 26 October 2016, 12:18:14
Definitely test it on a loose switch before applying

It's basically very annoying, I wouldn't say brown-like, more like brown+mush
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Simia_4 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 12:19:47
IIRC people describe it as very muted. So may have even less definition then a brown. Don't take my word for it though I have never tried lubed tactile clicks before.
[/quote]

Cool, thank you! I guess i'll get to learn how to take it apart.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Simia_4 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 12:24:24
Definitely test it on a loose switch before applying

It's basically very annoying, I wouldn't say brown-like, more like brown+mush

That's good to know. I was mainly concerned with not being able to make the board feel smoother and also not be able to take everything apart.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: codywanks on Mon, 31 October 2016, 14:24:36
Apologies if this question has been asked & answered before, but:

Is there a tried and tested way of rescuing MX Blues that have lost a significant amount of their click due to excess lube?

In case you're wondering,
1) The lube came from a bunch of used 62g gold springs that I had attempted to transplant into my blues; I didn't realize the previous owner had lubed them to hell until it was too late. I'd been using tweezers and the springs never came into contact with my fingertips.
2) I tried rinsing the affected parts in mildly soapy water followed by regular tap water but it only seemed to exacerbate the problem and further weaken the click (tried this with four switches, all four came out even less clicky, I made sure they were totally dry as well). Needless to say, I found this extremely baffling.
3) Ditto for Isopropyl alcohol (tried this with four more different switches).

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: kawasaki161 on Mon, 31 October 2016, 18:00:34
2) I tried rinsing the affected parts

What exactly did you rinse? There is probably still lube on the contact leaf and in the side rails of the bottom housing.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: codywanks on Mon, 31 October 2016, 23:53:15
What exactly did you rinse? There is probably still lube on the contact leaf and in the side rails of the bottom housing.

basically everything. the entire housing, spring and stem. i even dabbed it with this. (https://www.cleanandclear.com/blotting-papers/clean-clear-oil-absorbing-sheets)

pretty sure all the lube's been removed, but the rinsing process seems to have somehow ruined the switches. it's making me think that clicky switches + any sort of liquid = a big no no
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 01 November 2016, 15:21:28
What exactly did you rinse? There is probably still lube on the contact leaf and in the side rails of the bottom housing.

basically everything. the entire housing, spring and stem. i even dabbed it with this. (https://www.cleanandclear.com/blotting-papers/clean-clear-oil-absorbing-sheets)

pretty sure all the lube's been removed, but the rinsing process seems to have somehow ruined the switches. it's making me think that clicky switches + any sort of liquid = a big no no

As you're just trying to perform some experiments now instead of having a guaranteed way to save the switches. I would suggest trying to soak and rinse them in turpentine - it's how I clean my bicycle gears.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: codywanks on Tue, 01 November 2016, 15:30:15
As you're just trying to perform some experiments now instead of having a guaranteed way to save the switches. I would suggest trying to soak and rinse them in turpentine - it's how I clean my bicycle gears.

um doesn't turpentine eat through plastic?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: kawasaki161 on Tue, 01 November 2016, 15:31:43
it's making me think that clicky switches + any sort of liquid = a big no no

That cannot be the case. I used dish cleaner (the powder stuff, not the liquid) with Cherry Blue stems once and they still clicked afterwards.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: codywanks on Tue, 01 November 2016, 15:50:01
it's making me think that clicky switches + any sort of liquid = a big no no

That cannot be the case. I used dish cleaner (the powder stuff, not the liquid) with Cherry Blue stems once and they still clicked afterwards.

Just the stems, or did you do the bottom housings as well?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: kawasaki161 on Tue, 01 November 2016, 15:52:42
it's making me think that clicky switches + any sort of liquid = a big no no

That cannot be the case. I used dish cleaner (the powder stuff, not the liquid) with Cherry Blue stems once and they still clicked afterwards.

Just the stems, or did you do the bottom housings as well?

Just the stems, the bottom housings were trash so I didn't even bother desoldering them.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: codywanks on Tue, 01 November 2016, 15:57:01
Rinsing stems should be fine. Things only start going south for me when my bottom housings come into contact with any sort of liquid, including regular tap water. Those click leafs are probably extra sensitive or something.

*edit: Earlier today I took a perfectly normal, unlubed, fully-stock Gateron Blue, opened it up, rinsed the bottom with tap water, dried it off and put it back together. I swear the click became weaker (should have used one of those decibel meter apps to record it). Surely I am not the only one who's noticed this??
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Lleiwynn on Wed, 02 November 2016, 12:03:43
I tried looking for an answer to this question, but I've been coming up empty-handed. I'd appreciate any help you guys can offer.

I'm brand new to switch modding and am about to try my hand at some Gateron Blacks for use in the upcoming MiniVan and RoadKit group buys. I already have everything I need to mod the switches: the switches themselves, Krytox, stickers, and springs. What I'm missing is the actual boards they'll be going in; they'll be here sometime in December or January.

What I'm wondering is this: Am I safe to lube the stems and bottom housing (undecided on lubing the springs) now and then just solder everything together when I get the Van kits? Or will letting the switches sit while not mounted in a plate (i.e., on their sides, upside down, etc in a ziplock bag) allow the lube to seep into places it shouldn't be and ruin the switches?

Just itching to get to work and figured I can take care of the switches while I'm waiting on everything else. But if you guys tell me this is a bad idea, I'll hold off and do everything when I get the kits.

Thanks! :thumb:
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: kawasaki161 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 14:46:42
Shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't overdo the lubing, and even then the overdone lubing is is the problem and not the fact that you stored them differently.

Also, I'd highly suggest lubing the springs, there is nothing worse than pinging switches and lubing the springs does help with that a lot.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 03 November 2016, 06:17:16
As you're just trying to perform some experiments now instead of having a guaranteed way to save the switches. I would suggest trying to soak and rinse them in turpentine - it's how I clean my bicycle gears.

um doesn't turpentine eat through plastic?

Turpentine doesn't eat through (most of the plastics I have tried)
However, Acetone does eat into plastics, although it guarantees things to be oil / grease free afterwards.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Lleiwynn on Thu, 03 November 2016, 13:35:25
Shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't overdo the lubing, and even then the overdone lubing is is the problem and not the fact that you stored them differently.

Good to know - thank you. I'm really just wanting to do something while I wait on the Van kits.

Also, I'd highly suggest lubing the springs, there is nothing worse than pinging switches and lubing the springs does help with that a lot.

I'm kind of waffling on this. I've read that lubing the springs makes little to no difference, and then I've read the exact opposite. The lube I have is the "thin" Krytox solution from TechKeys. They also offer a "spring" solution. Do you think I could get away with using the same "thin" TechKeys lube on both the stems/housings and the springs?

Re-reading the description on their site, it sounds like the "spring" lube is just a smaller amount of lube (0.5mL vs 2mL in the "thin" lube kit). Says it's a Krytox GPL 206/1506 mix. So I'd imagine I can use the "thin" stuff I bought on all friction points.

Thanks for the help - I'm way out in the weeds on this, lol.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: kawasaki161 on Thu, 03 November 2016, 14:19:28
Also, I'd highly suggest lubing the springs, there is nothing worse than pinging switches and lubing the springs does help with that a lot.

I'm kind of waffling on this. I've read that lubing the springs makes little to no difference, and then I've read the exact opposite. The lube I have is the "thin" Krytox solution from TechKeys. They also offer a "spring" solution. Do you think I could get away with using the same "thin" TechKeys lube on both the stems/housings and the springs?

It does not make a lot of difference if you don't have an issue with pinging to begin with. But lubing springs doesn't really take much time to begin with and, if you open the switches anyways, it is definitely worth it, mainly because you don't have to open them again in case you end up with pinging.

Re-reading the description on their site, it sounds like the "spring" lube is just a smaller amount of lube (0.5mL vs 2mL in the "thin" lube kit). Says it's a Krytox GPL 206/1506 mix. So I'd imagine I can use the "thin" stuff I bought on all friction points.

I'd guess the spring lube uses a different ratio of the two blends in the mix, does it make a difference? I don't know, I've been using GPL105 for all my springs (mainly because I've got a lot of it for free) and it works fine, never felt the need for special spring lube tbh.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: calavera on Sun, 06 November 2016, 05:51:54
Hey guys, is it possible to lube the spacebar stabs without taking the whole board apart?
I don't know why but seems the lubes have dried out from years of usage and I need to somehow lube them again. I was told I can use a syringe to apply it on the side walls and that seems doable but getting into the tabs the stabilizer attaches to seems impossible.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Lleiwynn on Tue, 15 November 2016, 07:24:31
It does not make a lot of difference if you don't have an issue with pinging to begin with. But lubing springs doesn't really take much time to begin with and, if you open the switches anyways, it is definitely worth it, mainly because you don't have to open them again in case you end up with pinging.

Makes sense. After thinking about your suggestions (and finally getting all my switch mod components delivered), I'll probably just go ahead and lube the springs too. Like you said, I'll be opening the switches anyway, so I might as well.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 15 November 2016, 13:43:07
removed.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Grimspoon on Sun, 27 November 2016, 16:30:35
Dow Molykote 44m

https://www.amazon.com/Dow-Corning-Molykote-Medium-Lubricant/dp/B001VY1EL8

Would this work well, its pretty thick I have a bit that I used on arcade cabinet joysticks.

Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: LunarisDream on Thu, 29 December 2016, 05:11:51
Does anyone have the original pics associated with this guide or can make new ones?
Title: .
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 29 December 2016, 10:38:55
removed.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: infiniti on Tue, 03 January 2017, 09:56:07
Does anyone have the original pics associated with this guide or can make new ones?

I reuploaded some of the broken image links with images that I had / could find.

Please PM me if anyone has more.
Title: .
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 03 January 2017, 11:28:11
removed.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: kiettv12 on Sun, 26 February 2017, 02:16:54
Which krytox best for stabs guy?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: pr0ximity on Sun, 26 February 2017, 10:04:52
Which krytox best for stabs guy?

You'll want a 200-series grease, higher number is probably better, like 204/205

FWIW I used Super Lube recently to great success, super cheap: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts/super-lube-silicone-lubricating-grease-with-ptfe.html
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: xandwich on Sun, 26 February 2017, 10:41:11
FWIW I used Super Lube recently to great success, super cheap
Yeah!  Just bought a quart of Super Lube's utralight (slightly lighter than Krytox 103) to try on some switches.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: VGVisionary on Mon, 20 March 2017, 10:30:52
This guide is so insightful! Thanks! I just got two Model M's coming in, but now that I've read all this I need to figure out how it all applies to a Model M maintenance. Guess there's more reading ahead of me...

And picking the right lubes, dear lord who would've thought I'd ever have to do this in my life!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Grimspoon on Sat, 13 May 2017, 00:46:58
Dow Molykote 44m

https://www.amazon.com/Dow-Corning-Molykote-Medium-Lubricant/dp/B001VY1EL8

Would this work well, its pretty thick I have a bit that I used on arcade cabinet joysticks.

Ended up using this stuff on some stabs earlier tonight. Works like a charm. 10/10, would use again. Removed all rattle from space bar. Packed some into a spare syringe I got from a Krytox order off Techkeys, applied it front and back on stabs I had already previously installed on a Zeal60 board. Feels very good!
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Mon, 17 July 2017, 20:49:06
Any recommendations to lube 100 switches without taking 4 hours??

Lol, get a 40% board.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Rumblehotep on Thu, 17 August 2017, 18:59:58
Took apart some Pandas to put Mod-M switches in their housings since people said it magnified the tactility.
It did, but it also magnified the rattling and scratchy(?) feeling so I put a barely visible amount of lube on the stem sliders and an afterthought on the slider housing.
It's incredibly smooth and quiet now but the bump feels quieter or hidden somehow... can still feel it when I press slowly.  It's not what I expected but I guess I didn't know what I expected.
It still feels pretty nice actually, but would swapping in heavier springs bring the bump out more by drawing out the keypress?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 17 December 2017, 05:01:14
Is mixing krytox 103 and 205 in equal parts still considered the best option for switches and springs?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: pr0ximity on Sun, 17 December 2017, 15:51:56
Is mixing krytox 103 and 205 in equal parts still considered the best option for switches and springs?

Just get GPL104 if you want thinner 103. If you mix iirc you need to heat to combine them and avoid separation?

For linears I only ever use 104 and it's excellent.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Elijah on Sat, 23 December 2017, 19:39:34
Just finished my cherry ergo clears, useful guide, had to resort to some other lube type unfortunately due to availability but I'm very happy with the results. Used 70 rc spring lubricant in light quantities, I must have gone through a few ml for the entire board worth of switches.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 23 December 2017, 22:14:17
removed.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Rob27shred on Fri, 05 January 2018, 13:29:22
Took apart some Pandas to put Mod-M switches in their housings since people said it magnified the tactility.
It did, but it also magnified the rattling and scratchy(?) feeling so I put a barely visible amount of lube on the stem sliders and an afterthought on the slider housing.
It's incredibly smooth and quiet now but the bump feels quieter or hidden somehow... can still feel it when I press slowly.  It's not what I expected but I guess I didn't know what I expected.
It still feels pretty nice actually, but would swapping in heavier springs bring the bump out more by drawing out the keypress?
IME the heavier the spring the more drawn out & less apparent the tactile bump will become, pretty much the opposite of what you want. I would think a lighter spring would bring the tactility out more, but I have never tried that personally as I prefer heavier switches.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 05 January 2018, 18:07:06
Is mixing krytox 103 and 205 in equal parts still considered the best option for switches and springs?

103/107 mix for stems.

107 alone for springs.


204 for stabs.

that's the best..

Looking for equivalent stuff in Europe.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phorx on Sun, 18 February 2018, 17:09:20
Still lots of pics missing from the guide  :(
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: PotatoTM on Tue, 27 March 2018, 19:30:47
What percentage/ratios does everyone recommend of VPF 1514 and GPL 204 for linear switches (and/or tactile switches)?
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: pr0ximity on Tue, 27 March 2018, 21:00:54
What percentage/ratios does everyone recommend of VPF 1514 and GPL 204 for linear switches (and/or tactile switches)?

Don't mix. It will separate later. Tradition dictates thin for linear (VPF 1514), thick for tactile (204). But there are exceptions, I've heard of people liking thicker stuff on linears as well.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: yuppie on Tue, 27 March 2018, 21:38:18
this is what Zeal told me to do:

lube bottom rails left and right
also touch a bit on the border rails
then lube the spring inside n out
drop it in
lube everywhere on stem. literally every surface
swirl around the pole
drop it in
don't add lube to legs on tactile zealios
add extra on linears
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: funderburker on Wed, 28 March 2018, 03:59:17
this is what Zeal told me to do:

lube bottom rails left and right
also touch a bit on the border rails
then lube the spring inside n out
drop it in
lube everywhere on stem. literally every surface
swirl around the pole
drop it in
don't add lube to legs on tactile zealios
add extra on linears

Those instructions sound like some kids play song. :D But thanks, will try this technique. :)
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: phorx on Wed, 28 March 2018, 05:55:05
this is what Zeal told me to do:

lube bottom rails left and right
also touch a bit on the border rails
then lube the spring inside n out
drop it in
lube everywhere on stem. literally every surface
swirl around the pole
drop it in
don't add lube to legs on tactile zealios
add extra on linears

Those instructions sound like some kids play song. :D But thanks, will try this technique. :)

I’d love some pictures to go with these instructions.  Especially to explain what bottom rails are vs border rails.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: KaidaT on Mon, 23 April 2018, 03:43:48
Oh, good to know! Glad I have a day off soon lol.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 18 July 2018, 07:10:08
Does anyone know what common lubricant can produce such residue?  Does it look like it might be too much Superlube?  It seems sticker than Krytox 103 and 201 that I'm used to.  Less sticky than Victorinox oil.  You can see the white residue as well as the oil-slick shiny surface all around the bottom housing.

(Attachment Link)

And this appetizing photograph is of MX Black stems soaking in detergent.

Rononol lighter fluid works great as a solvent for many oils and greases.  This is safer than soap and water because it wil not oxidize metal parts.

(Attachment Link)

I'm cleaning the switch tops, the stems, and the springs, but not sure what to do about the bottoms. <-- Looks like cotton swabs soaked in alcohol work well on the slider channels in the bottom housing!


Is LZ soaking these switches in detergent?

http://lzlife.tistory.com/category/LZ%20Histroy

If so, what kind do you clean your switches with?

I had a very bad experience with washing the switches (~100 broken oxidized switch housings).
Therefore, I would like to share with anyone who is attempting to wash their switch in water.
Please be very careful, the brass contact points will get oxidized quickly and easily when they contact H20.

Actually, IMO, I think we only need to wash the stem but do not wash the switch housing.
In order to clean the switch housing, we can use a clean toothbrush to clean it.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Ronsonol lighter fluid makes a great solvent for breaking down many  oils and greases.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Blackfire74 on Thu, 03 November 2022, 18:02:43
OK, I just get this Akko 3087 9009 Retro keyboard, and after few days I replaced cursor switches to Gateron Milky Yellow linears pre-lubed, as this keyboard was equipped with Akko Orange tactiles, which are great but DRY. After getting Gaterons I realize that, as a noob of course. After two weeks I was not that happy about those Akko switches, gritty, loud, scratchy, loud, thin sounding, loud... I have no chance to get Krytox but found few mini bottles of so called "appliance oil", aka machine oil, and what pushed me to use this oil was those bottles are tiny and have really thin applicator. Thin like syringe needle. So I said: if I'm not satisfied, I have two choices, change the switches or try this oil. Can't 'be worse! Now I'm glad I did use it. My switches are plate mounted but no hot-swap, soldered. I did change four of them, but 83 more was too much! I was just pushing stems down with toothpick and apllied oil on the sides where sliders are, just enough to see the lube sticking between casing and stem. Both sides of a switch. I tried this on ScrLk, which is unused so nothing to worry. After puting cap back I was like: OMFG!!! Instant effect and the sound of a switch was exactly like I wanted from very beginning. Really thocky, little muffled, and I stopped blaming thin loud, Lego-like sounding caps. I wish I could record the sound and let you guys hear. Perfect. Besides, from first day I'm using o-rings and I put thin strips of kinesiology tape underneath  long caps. All three mods led me to this perfect sound. So far I didn't notice that oil looses its properties over time. I know, it is about a week from appying oil but every day I feel the same.
This oil was for Braun electric shaver, and in the mechanism there is a lot of plastic parts and no one said it can't be applied on plastic. Shaving head is made from plastic with metal blades, protective mesh on the top of shaving head is also plastic / metal composition, as well as inside parts. All made from plastic and metal and after years of lubing nothing happened, and I didn't use keyboard as often and heavy as my shaver. Still alive! Afterwards, oil is spreading inside by itself wherever it can, but construction of switches doesn't allow oil to go onto blades.
That's it. It is safe. Using ONLY Krytox is a marketing skeem. Oil prevents switches from sticky-ness, less viscosity and if it is good for fast rotating parts over the years, it will be good for switches, and it doesn't require switch opening. Less invasive, less time consuming and good for people who are scared messing with delicate components.
I suppse any minor exccess flows down to spring too, as I don't hear any ping anymore, accidentaly. And I use keyboard at nights mostly.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Blackfire74 on Thu, 10 November 2022, 17:32:53
After a week of typing I didn't notice any anomalies ;) Oil didn't drip down, switches still working the same way as right after lubing. Same smoothness, no more no less.
If you are not a psycho about lubing and you want great smoothness without desoldering and/or opening switches, I recomend using my method. Super easy, same effect if not better. No mushiness because oil is thinner than Krytox.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 10 November 2022, 19:58:18
A. Do NOT rely on a company telling you if a lube is NOT safe for plastic. You should only assume it is safe if it says it's safe... However, in this case we're talking a "specialty" lubricant made for a specialized product that contains plastic so yes, it's safe to assume it's safe. Just don't trust generic lube that doesn't specifically state such. Also it can takes weeks, months, years to break down the plastic, it doesn't always happen in minutes or even days.

B. Didn't drip down, are you sure? How do you know, did you open one and look? And you only waited a week. As above, it can take weeks to drip or even slow signs of slippage but you won't see any of it without taking it apart and checking it with a magnifying glass or microscope.

C. Thinner than Krytox, Krytox isn't just one lube or even 3 or 4, they sell an entire line of different lubes and oils of different viscosities. It's no different that Castrol selling different lubes and viscosities for cars.


As for what you accomplished...
I'm not going to argue it worked, however, all the dust and ground up plastic that was on the stems of those switches is now all mixed up in the lube and down inside the switch. Dirt and dust is conductive and dirt, dust and plastic are all abrasive. Being new helps and you may get lucky but try this on something older and your results could be very different. You also have no idea how it will perform long term. It got the job done, for now, but it's not the proper way to lube something if you want it to last.
Title: Re: Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide
Post by: nevin on Fri, 11 November 2022, 05:12:31
Thanks @Leslieann you beat me to it. Ditto.

There are many lubricants out there. Many will break down plastic, but you won't know it till the damage is already done.
Most "machine oils" are petroleum-based, meant for metal parts and WILL break down MOST plastics in time.

It's a good practice to make sure you lube is plastic-safe before using it on your keyboard.

There are many plastics used in the manufacturing of the components we use. Just because a lube was ok for nylon doesn't mean it's safe for ABS or Polyethylene or any of the other plastics we use in our keyboards.

I'm not saying krytox is your only choice. I'm saying do your homework & make sure sure your lube is safe for your keyboard.