NOW OPEN SOURCE!!! swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]

[BigBlueSaw]

Probably not practical.

[Melvang]

Probably not practical.

The plan for that project is each row is a separate plate to allow a pseudo curved plate so I can get a sculpted key profile with uniform profile caps similar to how IBM did it with their buckling springs boards.  The reason for doing this in that u shaped channel is the legs will provide the needed support as they will be attached on the ends only.

Obviously this will not support traditional pcbs that cover the full keyboard matrix.

[BigBlueSaw]

Have risers come  up from the base as in Tensioned Plate construction:
http://www.bigbluesaw.com/big-blue-saw-blog/general-updates/new-construction-technique-for-waterjet-or-laser-cut-parts.html

[Melvang]

Have risers come  up from the base as in Tensioned Plate construction:
http://www.bigbluesaw.com/big-blue-saw-blog/general-updates/new-construction-technique-for-waterjet-or-laser-cut-parts.html

The issue here is that would require multiple extra pieces.  Plus my design allows for different plate configurations.  The pseudo curve, flat for traditional pcb setup, or stepped where the plates are parallel but offset.  Plus it would actually complicate the build.  Would need a separate middle support for each row, for each configuration.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59450.msg1482547#msg1482547

[BigBlueSaw]

I don't understand, why do you need "different plate configurations"? Is it intended to be dynamically adjustable?

[Melvang]

I don't understand, why do you need "different plate configurations"? Is it intended to be dynamically adjustable?

Yes

[swill]

I know it has been a long time in coming (and its not in the production tool yet), but the rotated clusters is well on its way.  Here is a little teaser...

(Attachment Link)

I still have to work out the details of the plate dimensions based on the rotated keys, so that will be the next step.  This is a big step in the right direction though... 

I'm looking at doing a very similar design, however, when I use the following code :

Code: [Select]

[{f:1,f2:2},"\nEsc","\nF1","\nF2","\nF3","\nF4","\nF5","\nF6","\nF7","\nF8","Repeat Rate\nF9","Disable Macro\nF10","Macro\nF11","Remap\nF12","PrintScr SysReq","Scroll<br>lock","Pause Break","Keypad","Progrm"],
[{y:0.5,x:3.25,f:3},"#\n3",{x:9.5},"*\n8\n\n\n="],
[{y:-0.75,x:2.25},"@\n2",{x:1},"$\n4",{x:7.5},"&\n7\n\n\nNm Lk",{x:1},"(\n9\n\n\n="],
[{y:-0.75,x:1.25},"!\n1",{x:3},"%\n5",{x:5.5},"^\n6",{x:3},")\n0\n\n\n*"],
[{y:-0.75,w:1.25},"+\n=",{x:15.5,w:1.25},"_\n-"],
[{y:-0.75,x:3.25,f:6},"E",{x:9.5},"I\n\n\n\n8"],
[{y:-0.75,x:2.25},"W",{x:1},"R",{x:7.5},"U\n\n\n\n7",{x:1},"O\n\n\n\n9"],
[{y:-0.75,x:1.25},"Q",{x:3},"T",{x:5.5},"Y",{x:3},"P\n\n\n\n-"],
[{y:-0.75,a:6,f:3,w:1.25},"Tab",{x:15.5,a:4,w:1.25},"|\n\\"],
[{y:-0.75,x:3.25,f:6},"D",{x:9.5},"K\n\n\n\n5"],
[{y:-0.75,x:2.25},"S",{x:1},"F",{x:7.5},"J\n\n\n\n4",{x:1},"L\n\n\n\n6"],
[{y:-0.75,x:1.25},"A",{x:3},"G",{x:5.5},"H",{x:3,f:3},":\n;\n\n\n+"],
[{y:-0.75,a:6,w:1.25},"Caps<br>Lock",{x:15.5,a:4,w:1.25},"\"\n'"],
[{y:-0.75,x:3.25,f:6},"C",{x:9.5,f:3},"<\n,\n\n\n2"],
[{y:-0.75,x:2.25,f:6},"X",{x:1},"V",{x:7.5},"M\n\n\n\n1",{x:1,f:3},">\n.\n\n\n3"],
[{y:-0.75,x:1.25,f:6},"Z",{x:3},"B",{x:5.5},"N",{x:3,f:3},"?\n/\n\n\nEnter"],
[{y:-0.75,a:6,w:1.25},"Shift",{x:15.5,w:1.25},"Shift"],
[{y:-0.75,x:3.25,a:5,f:5},"⇦\n\n\n\n⇦",{x:9.5},"⇩\n\n\n\n⇩"],
[{y:-0.75,x:2.25,a:4,f:3},"|\n\\\n\n\nInsert",{x:1,a:5,f:5},"⇨\n\n\n\n⇨",{x:7.5},"⇧\n\n\n\n⇧",{x:1,a:4,f:3},"{\n[\n\n\n."],
[{y:-0.75,x:1.25},"~\n`",{x:13.5},"}\n]\n\n\nEnter"],
[{r:15,rx:5.25,ry:4,y:1,x:1.75},"Ctrl","Alt"],
[{x:0.75,a:7,h:2},"Back<br>Space",{h:2},"Delete","Home"],
[{x:2.75},"End"],
[{r:-15,rx:12.75,y:1,x:-3.75,a:4},"Cmd\n\n\n\n\n\nWin",{a:7},"Ctrl"],
[{x:-3.75,a:6},"Page<br>Up",{a:7,h:2},"Enter",{h:2},"Space"],
[{x:-3.75,a:6},"Page<br>Down"]

It generates a plate layout like :

Show Image

for the layout :

Show Image

obviously I'm doing something wrong with the tilts on the lower left cluster (it alternates between not including the stabilizers on either of the two larger keys) but for the life of me, I can't figure out what.

Do you have any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong ?
I'm considering just editing the output to duplicate the key+stabilizer but since cutting is so horrifically expensive here in the AU, I don't want to have too many test cuts.


--- Edit ---
I just read the last couple of pages of the thread between where you posted your new design and now.
I can see that this is an existing issue.

However, I did notice another thing, if I specify 6 holes for the mounts on the sandwich layout, it wants to put one of the bolt holes in the middle of the cutout for the usb cable on the second layer. Since i'll probably just be using the top and bottom plates with spacers, this isn't a huge issue for me, but it's probably something to keep in mind. Somehow I was expecting the three holes to be on the left and right sides of the keyboard not along the top to avoid this problem.

This should be fixed now.  Can you test and make sure everything is working as expected now?

[swill]

PLEASE TEST

I know a lot of people have been having problems recently with the stabilizers not drawing in some cases (especially with ergodox and rotated cluster layouts).  I think I have found the underlying bug in the library that I am using.  I have modified my drawing approach to try to bypass the bug in the lib, so please test to make sure that the problem is resolved.

[swill]

I have not gotten any errors that people have had problems drawing stabilizers since I pushed the fix a couple days ago, so I think that bug is squashed...  W00t...  If that had not worked I was in the process of building a MUCH more complicated solution which I am VERY happy I don't have to run with. 

[BigBlueSaw]

Here's pemdas's keyboard, built with the SwillKB Plate Building tool:

http://www.bigbluesaw.com/big-blue-saw-blog/general-updates/pemdas-s-custom-keyboard-with-waterjet-cut-plate.html

[xondat]

I'd just like to thank you for having this website. It's great, bug-free (from my experience) and works well for what I need.

[xondat]

What thickness is each layer generally?

[swill]

What thickness is each layer generally?

I have done a write up with measurements for this. I will have to find the post for you when I get to my computer.

The switch plate is almost always 1.5mm thick because that is required for the switches to clip in. Often people make the bottom plate the same thickness so it looks uniform.

The middle layers are more variable and that is up for interpretation. You have to fit the bottom of the switches, the wiring and the controller in that space, so it takes a little math.

I will try to find you my post later tonight which has more details.

[BigBlueSaw]

We've done switch plate layers up to 0.137". I'm not sure how they're using the plates at that thickness. Most people use 0.06" (1.5 mm) or under for the switch plate, as swill says.

Middle layers are typically 3 mm or 1/8". We have also done acrylic middle layers from 12 mm acrylic.

[swill]

What thickness is each layer generally?

Here is the post I was referring to earlier.  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65189.msg1730476;topicseen#msg1730476

The short version...

I used 4 layers of 0.15" (3.81mm) [for the middle layers].  This gives me a total middle thickness of 0.6" (15.24mm)

So by my calculations, you need at least 14mm of middle layer to make everything fit inside...

[xondat]

Alright great, thanks for the info. So the two middle pieces need to total 14mm or more? There is a gap for the USB cable in one layer, has anyone ever covered the specific heights for those?

[swill]

Alright great, thanks for the info. So the two middle pieces need to total 14mm or more? There is a gap for the USB cable in one layer, has anyone ever covered the specific heights for those?

That all depends on how you plan to handle the controller inside the case and how you plan to handle the actual port.  May plan is to actually use a small USB extender cable inside my case so I can glue the cable to the case and make that connection very strong, and not have my actual controller attached to the case (to make opening the case and such easier).

I have a few of these types of cables, but I will probably use this one.

Make sure you read the link I posted earlier so you can calculate the space needed.  You will want to plug cable into your teensy to know what the actual height will be of that total.  The plastic of the cable will add to the total height of the controller inside the case.  Because of this I would probably recommend you try to make sure you have 15 - 16mm of space in your case unless you have calculated everything yourself.

Does this all make sense?

[xondat]

Alright great, thanks for the info. So the two middle pieces need to total 14mm or more? There is a gap for the USB cable in one layer, has anyone ever covered the specific heights for those?

That all depends on how you plan to handle the controller inside the case and how you plan to handle the actual port.  May plan is to actually use a small USB extender cable inside my case so I can glue the cable to the case and make that connection very strong, and not have my actual controller attached to the case (to make opening the case and such easier).

I have a few of these types of cables, but I will probably use this one.

Make sure you read the link I posted earlier so you can calculate the space needed.  You will want to plug cable into your teensy to know what the actual height will be of that total.  The plastic of the cable will add to the total height of the controller inside the case.  Because of this I would probably recommend you try to make sure you have 15 - 16mm of space in your case unless you have calculated everything yourself.

Does this all make sense?

I'll be using a PCB so I know where; I think for cost saving at this point I'll just get the top and the bottom pieces for now, and maybe visit the middle layers later with the information that you provided cheers

[swill]

Alright great, thanks for the info. So the two middle pieces need to total 14mm or more? There is a gap for the USB cable in one layer, has anyone ever covered the specific heights for those?

That all depends on how you plan to handle the controller inside the case and how you plan to handle the actual port.  May plan is to actually use a small USB extender cable inside my case so I can glue the cable to the case and make that connection very strong, and not have my actual controller attached to the case (to make opening the case and such easier).

I have a few of these types of cables, but I will probably use this one.

Make sure you read the link I posted earlier so you can calculate the space needed.  You will want to plug cable into your teensy to know what the actual height will be of that total.  The plastic of the cable will add to the total height of the controller inside the case.  Because of this I would probably recommend you try to make sure you have 15 - 16mm of space in your case unless you have calculated everything yourself.

Does this all make sense?

I'll be using a PCB so I know where; I think for cost saving at this point I'll just get the top and the bottom pieces for now, and maybe visit the middle layers later with the information that you provided cheers

If you do get middle layers, only get closed layers and cut the USB cutout yourself because I am positive the default cutout will be in the wrong place for your pcb.

[byker]

Hey swill,

When I input this:

Code: [Select]

[{y:1.5},"Esc","!\n1","@\n2","#\n3","$\n4","%\n5","^\n6","&\n7","*\n8","(\n9",")\n0","_\n-","+\n=","|\n\\","~\n`"],
[{w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{a:6,w:1.5},"Backspace"],
[{a:4,w:1.75},"Ctrl","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{a:6,w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{a:4,w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/","↑",{a:6,w:1.75},"FN"],
[{x:0.75,a:7,w:1.5},"",{a:4,w:1.5},"Alt",{a:7,w:6.25},"",{a:4,w:1.25},"Win",{a:6},"←",{fa:[1]},"↓",{f:3},"→"]
It ends up with this extra space on top for some reason, when I select cherry stabs and poker case and square switch mounts:


I read through the last few pages, but I can't figure out why, any ideas?

[xondat]

Hey swill,

When I input this:

Code: [Select]

[{y:1.5},"Esc","!\n1","@\n2","#\n3","$\n4","%\n5","^\n6","&\n7","*\n8","(\n9",")\n0","_\n-","+\n=","|\n\\","~\n`"],
[{w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{a:6,w:1.5},"Backspace"],
[{a:4,w:1.75},"Ctrl","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{a:6,w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{a:4,w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/","↑",{a:6,w:1.75},"FN"],
[{x:0.75,a:7,w:1.5},"",{a:4,w:1.5},"Alt",{a:7,w:6.25},"",{a:4,w:1.25},"Win",{a:6},"←",{fa:[1]},"↓",{f:3},"→"]
It ends up with this extra space on top for some reason, when I select cherry stabs and poker case and square switch mounts:

Show Image

I read through the last few pages, but I can't figure out why, any ideas? :)

Code: [Select]

["Esc","!\n1","@\n2","#\n3","$\n4","%\n5","^\n6","&\n7","*\n8","(\n9",")\n0","_\n-","+\n=","|\n\\","~\n`"],
[{w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{a:6,w:1.5},"Backspace"],
[{a:4,w:1.75},"Ctrl","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{a:6,w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{a:4,w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/","↑",{a:6,w:1.75},"FN"],
[{x:0.75,a:7,w:1.5},"",{a:4,w:1.5},"Alt",{a:7,w:6.25},"",{a:4,w:1.25},"Win",{a:6},"←",{fa:[1]},"↓",{f:3},"→"]
Removed the y code at the front.

[byker]

Hey swill,

When I input this:

Code: [Select]

[{y:1.5},"Esc","!\n1","@\n2","#\n3","$\n4","%\n5","^\n6","&\n7","*\n8","(\n9",")\n0","_\n-","+\n=","|\n\\","~\n`"],
[{w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{a:6,w:1.5},"Backspace"],
[{a:4,w:1.75},"Ctrl","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{a:6,w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{a:4,w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/","↑",{a:6,w:1.75},"FN"],
[{x:0.75,a:7,w:1.5},"",{a:4,w:1.5},"Alt",{a:7,w:6.25},"",{a:4,w:1.25},"Win",{a:6},"←",{fa:[1]},"↓",{f:3},"→"]
It ends up with this extra space on top for some reason, when I select cherry stabs and poker case and square switch mounts:

Show Image

I read through the last few pages, but I can't figure out why, any ideas? :)

Code: [Select]

["Esc","!\n1","@\n2","#\n3","$\n4","%\n5","^\n6","&\n7","*\n8","(\n9",")\n0","_\n-","+\n=","|\n\\","~\n`"],
[{w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{a:6,w:1.5},"Backspace"],
[{a:4,w:1.75},"Ctrl","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{a:6,w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{a:4,w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/","↑",{a:6,w:1.75},"FN"],
[{x:0.75,a:7,w:1.5},"",{a:4,w:1.5},"Alt",{a:7,w:6.25},"",{a:4,w:1.25},"Win",{a:6},"←",{fa:[1]},"↓",{f:3},"→"]
Removed the y code at the front.

Many thanks :)

[waffle418]

Ok, so I stumbled on to this thread from the builder.  I love how easy it is to use and have designed myself an 84% keyboard.  When I go to get pricing for the plates from Big Blue Saw, its asking me for dimensions, so I opened up the file and realized I couldn't get a measurement on the drawing.  Am I going crazy or just terrible at CAD (I'm definitely terrible at CAD, but I didn't think I was THAT bad.)?  Any help would be muchappreciated and Swill I have to tell you how much I love your product.  I've gone through 2 or 3 redesigns of my "perfect" keyboard and had the CAD files made.  I'm so excited to get the pieces in place to build my own!!

[redbanshee]

Ok, so I stumbled on to this thread from the builder.  I love how easy it is to use and have designed myself an 84% keyboard.  When I go to get pricing for the plates from Big Blue Saw, its asking me for dimensions, so I opened up the file and realized I couldn't get a measurement on the drawing.  Am I going crazy or just terrible at CAD (I'm definitely terrible at CAD, but I didn't think I was THAT bad.)?  Any help would be muchappreciated and Swill I have to tell you how much I love your product.  I've gone through 2 or 3 redesigns of my "perfect" keyboard and had the CAD files made.  I'm so excited to get the pieces in place to build my own!!

What CAD program are you using? Try and label the lines or "DI" in the command line of most cad programs will run the "distance" command.

[swill]

Ok, so I stumbled on to this thread from the builder.  I love how easy it is to use and have designed myself an 84% keyboard.  When I go to get pricing for the plates from Big Blue Saw, its asking me for dimensions, so I opened up the file and realized I couldn't get a measurement on the drawing.  Am I going crazy or just terrible at CAD (I'm definitely terrible at CAD, but I didn't think I was THAT bad.)?  Any help would be muchappreciated and Swill I have to tell you how much I love your product.  I've gone through 2 or 3 redesigns of my "perfect" keyboard and had the CAD files made.  I'm so excited to get the pieces in place to build my own!!

All the dimensions in the CAD file are in millimeters (mm), but the units are not included in the actual exported file because the file format version I have access to does not support the the units of measure (UOM).

If you are using BBS, you should be able to upload your file and then click the 'Resize to ###.## X ##.## millimeters' button and it will update everything for you.

If you want to manually save the file to include the UOM, do the following.
- Open the file in LibreCAD
- Do: Edit > Current Drawing Preferences > Units > Main drawing unit = Millimeter > OK
- Do: File > Save

Now you can upload your file and you won't have to modify the UOM in the BBS UI.

Let me know if anything was not clear in this explanation. 

Glad you are enjoying the tool. 

[waffle418]

Ok, so I just need to grab LibreCAD or something more robust than CADFree to add the dimensions (I don't know what the actual size WILL be is where I'm getting tripped up.).  I'm trying to figure out what size the keyboard will be so I can plan and give to BBS to get an appropriate pricing.

[swill]

Ok, so I just need to grab LibreCAD or something more robust than CADFree to add the dimensions (I don't know what the actual size WILL be is where I'm getting tripped up.).  I'm trying to figure out what size the keyboard will be so I can plan and give to BBS to get an appropriate pricing.

Why are you trying to get the dimensions?  BBS has never asked for that on my plates.  BBS will automatically calculate all that stuff for you when you upload the file.  Can you explain your process of submitting the file to BBS so I can help guide you?

[waffle418]

Ok, so I just need to grab LibreCAD or something more robust than CADFree to add the dimensions (I don't know what the actual size WILL be is where I'm getting tripped up.).  I'm trying to figure out what size the keyboard will be so I can plan and give to BBS to get an appropriate pricing.

Why are you trying to get the dimensions?  BBS has never asked for that on my plates.  BBS will automatically calculate all that stuff for you when you upload the file.  Can you explain your process of submitting the file to BBS so I can help guide you?

Sure - I got the layout from kle and then put it into your site.  From there, I download the svgs for each plate and upload them to BBS. 

I see this after upload:


And that's where I'm stumped.  Its asking for overall size and I don't know that because I don't know the size from the drawings.

[swill]

Ok, so I just need to grab LibreCAD or something more robust than CADFree to add the dimensions (I don't know what the actual size WILL be is where I'm getting tripped up.).  I'm trying to figure out what size the keyboard will be so I can plan and give to BBS to get an appropriate pricing.

Why are you trying to get the dimensions?  BBS has never asked for that on my plates.  BBS will automatically calculate all that stuff for you when you upload the file.  Can you explain your process of submitting the file to BBS so I can help guide you?

Sure - I got the layout from kle and then put it into your site.  From there, I download the svgs for each plate and upload them to BBS. 

I see this after upload:

Show Image

And that's where I'm stumped.  Its asking for overall size and I don't know that because I don't know the size from the drawings.

Oh, I see the problem now.  Download the DXF version of the file and upload it to BBS.  Sorry I didn't think of that earlier.  :)

[waffle418]

DING DING DING we have a winner!    thanks so much. (Maybe for us noobs put a note that BBS requires the .dxf file )

[BigBlueSaw]

Yes, automated quotes are currently for file types DXF, DWG, PNG, GIF and Big Blue Saw Designer JPX only.

[waffle418]

Yes, automated quotes are currently for file types DXF, DWG, PNG, GIF and Big Blue Saw Designer JPX only.

If I read better, I would have seen that on your site thats on me!

[swill]

Yes, automated quotes are currently for file types DXF, DWG, PNG, GIF and Big Blue Saw Designer JPX only.

If I read better, I would have seen that on your site thats on me!

Haha.    No worries, I do that **** all the time.  RTFM!!! 

Edit: Speaking of which.  Everyone should have a look at the different help ? screens in the builder.  There are a lot of hidden features in there.  Especially the Plate Layout item.

[Charger]

Haha.    No worries, I do that **** all the time.  RTFM!!! 

Edit: Speaking of which.  Everyone should have a look at the different help ? screens in the builder.  There are a lot of hidden features in there.  Especially the Plate Layout item.

speaking of hidden features i seem to recall there was a way to get alps only cutouts but not sure if I'm just remembering incorrectly or not.

[swill]

Haha.    No worries, I do that **** all the time.  RTFM!!! 

Edit: Speaking of which.  Everyone should have a look at the different help ? screens in the builder.  There are a lot of hidden features in there.  Especially the Plate Layout item.

speaking of hidden features i seem to recall there was a way to get alps only cutouts but not sure if I'm just remembering incorrectly or not.

Yes. Using the x_grow and y_grow options in the global layout configuration. I am not sure if it is officially documented. I will check later tonight.

I may also just add the alps only cutout natively in the tool later tonight. I just need to do it. It has been on my list for months.

Anyone know what the alps space bar stabilizer details are?

[Charger]

Haha.    No worries, I do that **** all the time.  RTFM!!! 

Edit: Speaking of which.  Everyone should have a look at the different help ? screens in the builder.  There are a lot of hidden features in there.  Especially the Plate Layout item.

speaking of hidden features i seem to recall there was a way to get alps only cutouts but not sure if I'm just remembering incorrectly or not.

Yes. Using the x_grow and y_grow options in the global layout configuration. I am not sure if it is officially documented. I will check later tonight.

I may also just add the alps only cutout natively in the tool later tonight. I just need to do it. It has been on my list for months.

Anyone know what the alps space bar stabilizer details are?

I look forward to an alps option. Sadly I cant help with the stabilizer setup I have been questioning that myself recently since I just ordered alps keycaps from massdrop but I don't even have an alps keyboard so I will need to figure that out and make one lol

[skullydazed]

Anyone know what the alps space bar stabilizer details are?

It depends on which style you follow, the old "alps" style or the new "matias" style. For the matias style it's alps stabs for 2.25/2.75 and costar stabs for the spacebar. Every modern alps board I know of uses the matias style, and I would argue strongly that that should be the default.

I have 87mm from inside edge to inside edge of the 6.5U spacebar stab on an AEKII. That should mean 89mm center to center. I don't know if that is consistent with other vintage alps boards, this is the only one I have on hand to measure.

[Charger]

Anyone know what the alps space bar stabilizer details are?

It depends on which style you follow, the old "alps" style or the new "matias" style. For the matias style it's alps stabs for 2.25/2.75 and costar stabs for the spacebar. Every modern alps board I know of uses the matias style, and I would argue strongly that that should be the default.

I have 87mm from inside edge to inside edge of the 6.5U spacebar stab on an AEKII. That should mean 89mm center to center. I don't know if that is consistent with other vintage alps boards, this is the only one I have on hand to measure.

random question but do you think a costar stabilizers would work in place of the alps ones maybe with a custom bent wire?

[swill]

Anyone know what the alps space bar stabilizer details are?

It depends on which style you follow, the old "alps" style or the new "matias" style. For the matias style it's alps stabs for 2.25/2.75 and costar stabs for the spacebar. Every modern alps board I know of uses the matias style, and I would argue strongly that that should be the default.

I have 87mm from inside edge to inside edge of the 6.5U spacebar stab on an AEKII. That should mean 89mm center to center. I don't know if that is consistent with other vintage alps boards, this is the only one I have on hand to measure.

random question but do you think a costar stabilizers would work in place of the alps ones maybe with a custom bent wire?

No, I don't think so, the alps cutouts are much smaller.  I will work on this on the train tomorrow morning.

[swill]

Anyone know what the alps space bar stabilizer details are?

It depends on which style you follow, the old "alps" style or the new "matias" style. For the matias style it's alps stabs for 2.25/2.75 and costar stabs for the spacebar. Every modern alps board I know of uses the matias style, and I would argue strongly that that should be the default.

I have 87mm from inside edge to inside edge of the 6.5U spacebar stab on an AEKII. That should mean 89mm center to center. I don't know if that is consistent with other vintage alps boards, this is the only one I have on hand to measure.

Thank you.  With the other info I have, I should be able to get most of the basic situations taken care of.

[Charger]

No, I don't think so, the alps cutouts are much smaller.  I will work on this on the train tomorrow morning.

ya i know that but I dont want to buy an alps keyboard for parts lol so I was thinking of using a costar stab just to hold the wire which would probably need a custom wire to do that. I dont think that alps use the stab as a guide like costar seems to so even if I had to cut the costar stabs down to avoid interference i assume it should still work

[swill]

PLEASE NOTE, NONE OF THIS IS LIVE YET...

I have the basics working for the Alps Only switch cutout as well as the Alps style stabilizer.  Unfortunately, I do not have a complete list of Alps stabilizer measurements.  Here are the ones I have:

The values below represent 1/2 of the distance from center to center of the Alps stabilizers in millimeters, centered around the X of the switch cutout.

Code: [Select]

switch size {
case 1.75: // 1.75u
s = 11.938
case 2.0: // 2.0u
s = 14.096
case 2.75: // 2.75u
s = 21.59
case 6.25: // 6.25u
s = 41.859
}
Credit: measurements generously provided by jdcarpe

If the key size is >=2 and is not in this list, it will instead draw a costar stabilizer (eg: 2.25u or 7u).  If you have a key which fits one of those descriptions and you don't want any stabilizer drawn for it, you can now specify a {_s:0} flag to stop a stabilizer from being drawn at all.

What do you guys think?  Am I missing anything major?

[swill]

Bumpity Bump...

I would appreciate some feedback from people who are interested in Alps support to make sure the functionality described in my previous post passes the sanity test.  Thx... 

[flabbergast]

I am very thankful for adding the Alps support into your builder!

I've only got Alps plates from BlueNalgene's recent group buy and a CAD file (for a different Alps plate) from him. From the CAD file, it looks like the s for 2.75u is 24.09005mm and for 2.25u it's 14.0967mm. I will measure tomorrow on the actual plate. I would prefer if 2.25u case is also covered with Alps cutouts (left shift).

However your number for 2.75u is probably better vis-a-vis stabs from Matias - see this post. (I had no problem with his plate with a stab from AEKII.) These stabs are flexible, and the cutouts slightly closer is way better than slightly too far.

[swill]

I am very thankful for adding the Alps support into your builder!

I've only got Alps plates from BlueNalgene's recent group buy and a CAD file (for a different Alps plate) from him. From the CAD file, it looks like the s for 2.75u is 24.09005mm and for 2.25u it's 14.0967mm. I will measure tomorrow on the actual plate. I would prefer if 2.25u case is also covered with Alps cutouts (left shift).

However your number for 2.75u is probably better vis-a-vis stabs from Matias - see this post. (I had no problem with his plate with a stab from AEKII.) These stabs are flexible, and the cutouts slightly closer is way better than slightly too far.

This is exactly the type of feedback I was hoping for. Yes, with alps, it is better to error on the smaller size. Judging from that link, I am pretty confident with the 2.75u measurement. I will add alps 2.25u support with the 2.0u measurement, which aligns with your cad example. 

I will keep the fallback stabilizer as costar for unregistered key lengths (and registered in costar), to make sure there is a default stabilizer cutout for various space bar lengths. If you know the measurements for any other alps stabilizer cutouts, I can add support for them. What does the AEKII use?

Thanks again for the support.

[swill]

I have most everything built now, so I should be able launch this tonight. I have been rewriting the code for how I support different configurations and combinations. I will launch the alps support right away and make the other changes after.  I can release any additional cutouts with the coming changes.

[swill]

Its alive... 



If you find any issues or have suggestions for additional features, please let me know.

I have tried to make it more obvious how to use the key by key modification options.  Hopefully people will checkout some of those features (Plate Layout Help).  Especially if you want to use a poker case.  You will probably have to flip some stabilizers {_rs:180}, if that is supported with alps stabilizers to get the stabilizer away from the plate edge.

Enjoy...

[Zorberema]

Its alive... 

(Attachment Link)

If you find any issues or have suggestions for additional features, please let me know.

I have tried to make it more obvious how to use the key by key modification options.  Hopefully people will checkout some of those features (Plate Layout Help).  Especially if you want to use a poker case.  You will probably have to flip some stabilizers {_rs:180}, if that is supported with alps stabilizers to get the stabilizer away from the plate edge.

Enjoy...

Ey! I was just beginning the work on a custom alps board; this is awesome! Thanks Swill!

[azhdar]

Wow right when I'll be needing an alps plate cut, fantastic.

[flabbergast]

So I've measured (only approximately unfortunately, got no equipment for precise) the cutouts on BlueNalgene's plate with AEKII layout (I've got not actual AEKII plate, sorry). So, it looks like the numbers you've got are good. Please disregard the one for 2.75u from the CAD file I wrote about earlier, it's way too big (I'm happy I've caught this now and not when the plate is cut).

So the actual measurement I got for 2.75u stab is 21.75mm - and that should be the one I've linked to before. So a bit shorter than that should be good.

The 2.25u and 2u keys have the same stab distances; also confirmed by looking at the keycaps from the bottom side.

One more I'd like to add is the stab for 6.5u spacebar (AEKII-size), that one is 45.3mm.

PS: Thanks again! Just last weekend I've done this one manually. I'll compare with the result from your tool - and I'm sure discover a couple more problems with my manual plate