Author Topic: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes  (Read 50904 times)

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Offline Photoelectric

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LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 16:37:02 »
Someone asked me which LEDs are best for switches--twice now, and, well, I prefer rectangular 2x3x4mm varieties for three reasons:

1. they snap into the switch cover and sit there tightly, requiring no modification.  Most don't even require tape when flipping over the PCB.
2. they have good light dispersion and high viewing angles
3. again, no filing required, and they are the most compact: should fit under most keycaps without interference.

But, photographs are more helpful, so here are a bunch for your reference purposes:


3mm flat top, 2x3x4mm rectangular, 3mm (t-1) round flange-less.



- Flat top (after filing the flange a bit) -

(I've found that these interfere with low Cherry profile keycaps in the middle rows)







- 3mm round (flangeless) -







- 2x3x4mm rectangular -





« Last Edit: Wed, 05 March 2014, 09:05:58 by Photoelectric »
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED varieties
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 16:39:37 »
It would be really great to see the LEDs on as well. Not really sure how to properly take pictures of the LEDs lit but it would help people decide what LEDs they needed. I made an LED tester to test them for myself but I'd like to figure out how to take a proper picture.

Regardless, these are great pictures :D.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED varieties
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 16:42:11 »
Well, every LED is different, and brightness will depend on current.  2x3x4mm LEDs offer better diffusion and will result in a better glow under keycaps with silver / lighter toned plates.
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Offline keymaster

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED varieties
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 16:42:17 »
Thanks for these pictures. I just ordered some 2x3x4mm rectangular LEDs and it sounds like I made a good choice.

Offline Gid

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 13 February 2014, 01:01:08 »
Fantastic pictures.  Thank you for sharing!  And I agree with the Capt., it would be even more awesome to have some pictures of the LEDs on.  I don't understand, for example, why a rectangular shape would have better diffusion than one that's mathematically more even.  Is it because there seems to be a thinner shell overall on the 2×3×4㎜ LEDs?  In addition, the hollowed-out, fan-shaped cavity where the diode resides also seems smaller on the rectangular LED.  Perhaps this makes a difference, as well.

These pictures opened my eyes.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 14 February 2014, 08:26:25 »
I'm going to try and take some pictures of lit LEDs to add to this. I have some cyan/teal LEDs to play with. Don't know if I'll have the same incredible macro shots that Photoelectric made but I'll try.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 14 February 2014, 09:53:43 »
Fantastic pictures.  Thank you for sharing!  And I agree with the Capt., it would be even more awesome to have some pictures of the LEDs on.  I don't understand, for example, why a rectangular shape would have better diffusion than one that's mathematically more even.  Is it because there seems to be a thinner shell overall on the 2×3×4㎜ LEDs?  In addition, the hollowed-out, fan-shaped cavity where the diode resides also seems smaller on the rectangular LED.  Perhaps this makes a difference, as well.

These pictures opened my eyes.

Because of rectangular edges acting as mirrors in some way and deflecting some of the light.  Spherical top LEDs have the worst viewing angle of the 3 for water clear varieties.  Just have a look at LED documentations sheets.
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Offline Gid

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 14 February 2014, 12:35:40 »
Because of rectangular edges acting as mirrors in some way and deflecting some of the light.  Spherical top LEDs have the worst viewing angle of the 3 for water clear varieties.  Just have a look at LED documentations sheets.
Well, I'm sold.  Thank you for the explanation.

There must be some situations, however, where spherical-top LEDs would be preferred.  Might the spherical tops concentrate light in a particular direction (up), like a lens?  Direct observation says maybe, but I don't have any rectangular LEDs to compare with.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 14 February 2014, 14:22:45 »
Regular spherical top LEDs have the best visibility when viewed directly from above.  The more you deviate from the vertical, the dimmer they will appear--dramatically so.  It's not as relevant under a keycap, but it's noticeable for indicator LEDs, unless you get super bright ones, in which case they'll just be pretty blinding and hard to miss  :)  I still think rectangular ones are better for under keycaps too for more even illumination.  Flat top cyllindrical would be good too, but mine caused some issues with bottoming out low profile keycaps.
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Offline ninjadoc

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 20 February 2014, 15:26:51 »
Thanks for these pictures. I just ordered some 2x3x4mm rectangular LEDs and it sounds like I made a good choice.

Where did you order your LED's?

Offline keymaster

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 20 February 2014, 15:38:43 »
Thanks for these pictures. I just ordered some 2x3x4mm rectangular LEDs and it sounds like I made a good choice.

Where did you order your LED's?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152258084

Offline ninjadoc

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 20 February 2014, 16:20:06 »
Thanks for these pictures. I just ordered some 2x3x4mm rectangular LEDs and it sounds like I made a good choice.

Where did you order your LED's?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152258084

I thought you would say ebay but I wanted to double check.

There are "water-clear" and there are "diffused" LED's. Your link points to diffused LED's and I thought "water clear" was recommended over diffused because of brightness and "decreased fuzziness"/diffusion of the light. Am I correct in this or confused as ____ ! :)

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 20 February 2014, 16:26:46 »
For under key caps, doesn't really matter if it's diffused or water clear.  Internal brightness specification is more important, I think.
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Offline MOZ

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 01:29:31 »
Love the thread, missed it earlier somehow.

I too highly recommend the 2x3x4mm LEDs. THe ebay seller colorfulpace is a great place to get them for cheap.

Offline skcheng

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 22 February 2014, 08:53:44 »
Love the thread, missed it earlier somehow.

I too highly recommend the 2x3x4mm LEDs. THe ebay seller colorfulpace is a great place to get them for cheap.


I think you're referring to the ebay seller -   colorfulplace888

Ordering some LEDs now.   Hope it's not too difficult replacing these things?   


Offline ninjadoc

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 22 February 2014, 09:27:30 »
Has anyone seen purple 2 x 3 x 4 mm LED's?

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 22 February 2014, 09:32:55 »
Not true purple ones but I have pink/purple/magenta ones in my KMAC. Not sure if there are true purple LEDs. I got mine here.

Offline Hyde

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 05 March 2014, 08:59:14 »
Man this is awesome, thanks Photoelectric !!!

Though now I wish I had read this before I modded my Poker II.  :P

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Offline naokira

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 05 March 2014, 09:35:13 »
There is also a combination of the rectangle and spherical one.

Thats what GON installed on my board. They look great too!

Though I don't have a photo of it.

edit: Found a picture
« Last Edit: Wed, 05 March 2014, 09:39:24 by naokira »
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Offline naokira

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 05 March 2014, 09:39:06 »
Here it is!

I found this on my mail thread with GON.

56374-0
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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 05 March 2014, 09:39:56 »
Interesting.  Those look rather large, no?  Could you take a photograph of one of those in a Cherry switch for reference, please?
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Offline naokira

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 05 March 2014, 12:16:01 »
I can on a weekend :) its not large. It fits nicely :)
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Offline James35

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 09 May 2014, 00:09:31 »
Thank you for the write up and pics. 

Offline Oobly

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 09 May 2014, 04:52:54 »
I like the flangeless round and rectangular ones.

I just replaced the green LED's in my Pure with white ones. I got the round flangeless type since it keeps the stock look and I think it looks pretty good, if I may say so myself :)

Ebay is a great source for cheap LEDs in all shapes and sizes, but I got mine from Wayjun.com. 200 white water clear LED's for $12 (and an extra $12 shipping), brightness is consistent and not a single dud in the pack :)

Buying more keycaps,
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Offline Razor Lotus

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 09 May 2014, 07:18:25 »
Guys, I don't mean to hijack this thread but I was hoping that some of you more experienced people can give me some insight on adding LEDs in my thread?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57996.0

This thread is really good by the way. I have been searching for the usual spherical top all this while but I think after reading this I'm getting some rectangular ones for myself.

Thanks again for the pictures! :)


Offline qwack

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 07:26:49 »
Just to elaborate a bit on naokira's uncommon LED shape: they're referred to as 1.8 mm LEDs.



3mm flanged, 3mm flangeless, and two 1.8mm LEDs.


It's pretty much the smallest non-SMD LED you can mount on a Cherry MX switch:



The specs (view angle, light intensity) are generally the same as their 3mm equivalents, and they're not more expensive, so if you can find them in the flavor you want they're a good choice too.
« Last Edit: Tue, 24 June 2014, 07:36:37 by qwack »

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Offline Oobly

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 25 June 2014, 04:41:32 »
This thread should be stickied, IMHO. Great information for anyone working with Cherry MX switch boards. Should I PM Soarer to request this?
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 06 July 2014, 07:32:29 »
Just to elaborate a bit on naokira's uncommon LED shape: they're referred to as 1.8 mm LEDs.

The specs (view angle, light intensity) are generally the same as their 3mm equivalents, and they're not more expensive, so if you can find them in the flavor you want they're a good choice too.

Has anyone actually tried this out in practice? I just want to know whether people have real experiences with the 1.8mm LEDs. (Am always worried that something will get burnt out or some disaster will occur.)
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 06 July 2014, 23:04:11 »
Just to elaborate a bit on naokira's uncommon LED shape: they're referred to as 1.8 mm LEDs.

The specs (view angle, light intensity) are generally the same as their 3mm equivalents, and they're not more expensive, so if you can find them in the flavor you want they're a good choice too.

Has anyone actually tried this out in practice? I just want to know whether people have real experiences with the 1.8mm LEDs. (Am always worried that something will get burnt out or some disaster will occur.)

I plan on getting some.

Keep in mind that 3mm LEDs are usually run at 1/10'th their rated current. Based on the pictures the semiconductor in there looks the same, and just the plastic case is much smaller. I would expect it to have similar performance as compared to the 3mm ones we usually use. I plan to get some 1.8mm leds next time I buy them.

Offline qwack

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 09 July 2014, 08:13:06 »
Small SMD LEDs perform the same as 3mm or 5mm ones, so there is absolutely no reason for the 1.8mm LED to burn. As dorkvader said, the semiconductor is the same and that's what matters. The difference between a SMD/small trhough hole LED and a bigger one of the same color is the size of the casing, that's all.
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 July 2014, 18:02:34 by qwack »

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Offline dorkvader

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 09 July 2014, 09:56:50 »
You will run out of current to power your KB from USB long before you run the risk of damaging the LED with overcurrent.

Unless you are driving a very small number of LEDs, like for a KMAC of 40%.

How many, well that depends on the controller. Most sources say the controller needs like 200 mA to work, leaving you only 300 mA to run your LEDs from. That's 15 LEDs at full brightness.

Offline qwack

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 09 July 2014, 10:55:11 »
I'm not sure if you are directly answering to my post, or if I messed up somewhere, but I was talking about LEDs being damaged by overvoltage, not overcurrent  ;)

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Offline dorkvader

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 09 July 2014, 12:12:25 »
I'm not sure if you are directly answering to my post, or if I messed up somewhere, but I was talking about LEDs being damaged by overvoltage, not overcurrent  ;)

LEDs are constant voltage devices.

Offline Oobly

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 09 July 2014, 14:36:12 »
I'm not sure if you are directly answering to my post, or if I messed up somewhere, but I was talking about LEDs being damaged by overvoltage, not overcurrent  ;)

LEDs are constant voltage devices.

+1

And the resistor is commonly referred to as a "current limiting resistor"... It's all about the current. Lower fv LED's with the same resistor make the resistor drop more of the voltage (Vtotal=Vled + Vresistor), so the current through the circuit increases proportionately (V=IR).
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Offline qwack

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 09 July 2014, 17:55:39 »
Dang. And I knew that these resistors are called CLRs... I definitely got my stuff badly mixed up, thanks for the correction guys. Original message edited so as not to confuse anyone.
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 July 2014, 18:03:37 by qwack »

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Offline rainb1ood

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 05 January 2015, 20:50:51 »
Thanks for the photos, just what I need for reference.

Another necrobump with a question, does anyone have experience using UV LED as alternative for Purple LED?

Offline dorkvader

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 05 January 2015, 23:35:24 »

Another necrobump with a question, does anyone have experience using UV LED as alternative for Purple LED?
I looked into it some time ago.

Based on the spectral emission, just get a UV LED. Most UV LED and purple LED are cross-listed as eachother, and looking at the datasheets: about the same.

don't worry about the LED killing your eyes: apparently it's near-visible UV, and (probably) won't cause harm.

Offline bowji

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 05 January 2015, 23:45:00 »
Wow I never knew this thread existed. Super helpful.
I read somewhere that certain LED shapes get in the way of DSA keycaps, are there any shapes/types of LEDs I should be aware of when using low profile caps?
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 05 January 2015, 23:48:20 »
Wow I never knew this thread existed. Super helpful.
I read somewhere that certain LED shapes get in the way of DSA keycaps, are there any shapes/types of LEDs I should be aware of when using low profile caps?

I believe 1.8mm is fine for all.
2*3*4 might need to be sanded but I think it's okay as well. It's the keycaps with a cross supporting the stem on the inside that have clearance issues I believe.
3mm might be too tall, though SP does make windowed DSA caps so it might be fine.

Offline bowji

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 06 January 2015, 00:04:05 »
I believe 1.8mm is fine for all.
2*3*4 might need to be sanded but I think it's okay as well. It's the keycaps with a cross supporting the stem on the inside that have clearance issues I believe.
3mm might be too tall, though SP does make windowed DSA caps so it might be fine.

Thank you so much! seems like I was worried for nothing  :p
I appreciate your time/input.
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Offline rainb1ood

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 06 January 2015, 06:51:48 »

Another necrobump with a question, does anyone have experience using UV LED as alternative for Purple LED?
I looked into it some time ago.

Based on the spectral emission, just get a UV LED. Most UV LED and purple LED are cross-listed as eachother, and looking at the datasheets: about the same.

don't worry about the LED killing your eyes: apparently it's near-visible UV, and (probably) won't cause harm.
Thanks!

I found a few UV 1.8mm on amazon and ordered it right away

Offline qwack

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 10 February 2015, 06:22:49 »
don't worry about the LED killing your eyes: apparently it's near-visible UV, and (probably) won't cause harm.

This is true, but it should be noted that the light emitted by these "UV" (more like a very cold blueish purple) diodes may strain the eye much faster than other colors, even at low brightness settings. Definitely not the kind of LEDs I would chose for a backlight (especially in the dark) but if it is really the color rainb1ood wants, it is worth a try anyway.

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Offline Razor Lotus

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 11 February 2015, 10:50:36 »
Just to elaborate a bit on naokira's uncommon LED shape: they're referred to as 1.8 mm LEDs.

Show Image


3mm flanged, 3mm flangeless, and two 1.8mm LEDs.


It's pretty much the smallest non-SMD LED you can mount on a Cherry MX switch:

Show Image


The specs (view angle, light intensity) are generally the same as their 3mm equivalents, and they're not more expensive, so if you can find them in the flavor you want they're a good choice too.

wow thank you very much for this. I've seen this before but I thought they were non standard and didn't know what they were called. I was gonna buy a bunch of rectangular orange LEDs until I saw these. Now i'm gonna get the 1.8mm ones :)

Thanks a lot for this post :)


Offline qwack

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 14 March 2015, 10:57:28 »
Glad you found it useful!

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Offline just1n

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 14 March 2015, 17:04:19 »
1.2mm LED


94117-0


94119-1


94121-2

Offline Art of Payce

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 14 March 2015, 17:23:35 »
Question: Is the uniformity or diffusion of light about the same between 1.8mm and 2x3x4s? If so, I guess the main benefit of 1,8mm is the clearance, correct?

Offline qwack

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #46 on: Sat, 14 March 2015, 19:51:37 »
1.2mm LED


(Attachment Link)


(Attachment Link)


(Attachment Link)

Nice! I did not know such small TH LEDs existed.

Question: Is the uniformity or diffusion of light about the same between 1.8mm and 2x3x4s? If so, I guess the main benefit of 1,8mm is the clearance, correct?

Correct. Although light diffusion can vary, so you should always chech the datasheet of the components you want to buy (good sellers usually provide a link to it so you can know exactly what you're buying). Light diffusion (usually termed "viewing angle") can go from a narrow 30° to a wide 120°, so it's worth checking the datasheets.
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 March 2015, 10:23:53 by qwack »

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Offline just1n

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 09:32:59 »
3 mm.LED
94168-0

2x3x4x mm LED
94164-1


1.2 mm LED
94162-2
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 March 2015, 09:39:09 by just1n »

Offline Thumper_

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 04:46:21 »
Nice to find such a thread.
I already ordered some LEDs, but got ones with a flange. The LED is 3mm and with the flange its 3.9mm. Do these fit in the spot on a Cherry MX? Or do i have to sand each flange down?

Offline qwack

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Re: LEDs: High-res photos of various switch LED shapes
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 08:16:33 »
They fit:



They do sit a little higher than their non-flanged counterpart though (around 0.5 mm higher), which means that the bottom of the keycap may hit the top of the LED when you bottom out the key:



That may depend on keycap height and construction. Notice the light bump on the bottom part of the left keycap ? This is where the top of the LED hits.



I do not find it to be a problem on the Esc key, but it may be annoying on other keys. But if it is a problem, you can sand/file down the top of the LED to make it a tad shorter — easier than to sand off the flange, and a sanded LED top will act as a light diffuser (= wider angle of vision, better light distribution than a waterclear LED).
« Last Edit: Mon, 30 March 2015, 08:45:57 by qwack »

Pure Pro w/MX Red - [review]