[black, spacesaver, blue cherry] keyboard does not exist?

[wellington1869]

Most of the compact (space saver) blue cherry boards seem to be white (like the modular mac or cherry g80-1800).  And the black ones -- Das II and III and Scorpius m10 -- are not spacesavers/compact.

Does anyone know of a black/space saver/blue cherry board?

Possibly only this one (but hyper expensive at $200, seems very rare).  

Is that the only one? And if so, isnt that odd?

[lowpoly]

You can get a linear G80-1800 with black case and do a switch swap.

[wellington1869]

You can get a linear G80-1800 with black case and do a switch swap.

I guess thats what would have to be done.
From prices on ebay, seems like the g81-1800 black case would be much cheaper (thats the one with the ml or my switches (I think), but if i'm doing a switch-swap anyway...).

Guess i'll attempt it once I have some free time...

[lowpoly]

G81 is the MY switch. You can't swap MX with MY. The swap is done by opening the MX switch and swapping the internals. No soldering necessary. The MY is a membrane switch. There isn't even a pcb.

If you've seen the link with the bent fork - you don't need that. Two of those small clockmaker screwdrivers will do. You can insert the screwdriver from the top into the clips and open them (MX). Use the other screwdriver to keep the switch open when you do the other side.

[lowpoly]

Possibly only this one (but hyper expensive at $200, seems very rare).

That's a G81, btw. The price is just insane. You'd think they'd at least brush the dust off or take sharp pictures. But noooo, that would probably make it a lesser rip-off.

As a new 'board that would be a G81-1800LPMEU-2 for a fraction of the price.

[wellington1869]

G81 is the MY switch. You can't swap MX with MY. The swap is done by opening the MX switch and swapping the internals.

hey lowpoly, so are you saying its possible to swap the *internals* between MY and blue/browns?

[lowpoly]

You can't swap MX with MY.

No swap possible, totally different design.

[wellington1869]

No swap possible, totally different design.

thats a real bummer. G80's in black are frightfully expensive on ebay. The g81's were a lot cheaper.

I assume the ML switches cant be swapped with blues/browns either then?

So basically getting or making a compact black with blue cherries is nearly impossible within a reasonable price?!

[lowpoly]

I assume the ML switches cant be swapped with blues/browns either then?

No. Again, totally different switch.

So basically getting or making a compact black with blue cherries is nearly impossible within a reasonable price?!

Depends on 'reasonable'.

Isn't the Filco Tenkeyless available with blue Cherries? I don't remember the variants ATM.

Or do a mod. I'm currently writing on a black Cherry with blue switches and 61 keys.

[wellington1869]

Or do a mod

you mean break out the soldering gun?  

I saw the mod karlito did as well as the fork-prong method. But it sounds like I need to locate a g80 spacesaver in black first and buy it... before I can figure out how to swap out the keys (whether I can get away with stem-only or whether I have to do something more drastic).  And it sounds like even on ebay a black g80 is going to run me close to $100.

Filco - ya, it looks great but again I'll have to wait till I'm out of school and have a job

[lowpoly]

you mean break out the soldering gun?

Like this:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage2.nifty.com%2Fsskicr%2Fremodel%2Fg80-3000.html&langpair=ja|en&hl=en&ie=UTF8

But then, the G80-3000 you need won't be much cheaper than the G80-1800 you mentioned. It may just be easier to find a used one.

Edit: You can use your Das II.

[wellington1869]

Edit: You can use your Das II

thats what i'm doing now but I love the compact/space saver form factor. Something about reaching for the mouse over both the arrow keys and numpad really bugs me I've had RSI before in my elbow, it sucked I had to wear a cast and everything.

In truth I dont even need the arrow keys on the right. I made a superb autohotkey file, its sort of my own personal version of the HHKB which I can use on any keyboard that has a standard layout. My fingers rarely leave the home row for *any* reason  

Hence a compact version would be ideal.  Black color just cuz its cooler And cherries cuz I need something thats not quite as loud as buckling spring or alps.  

Plus, what a great way to procrastinate and not write my dissertation... if only I had the perfect keyboard... all the worlds problems would be solved!

[lowpoly]

Edit: You can use your Das II.

As the base for your mod, I meant.

[wellington1869]

Like this:

http://translate.google.com/translat...&hl=en&ie=UTF8

As the base for your mod, I meant

Wow, now thats a mod!

Would love to try that (maybe not on my das II, which is just beautiful and i'm sure i'll butcher it!) but maybe on a g80-3000...  I doubt I'd be able to do it as neatly as this guy did, but would be a *fun* mod to try!
I'd actually prefer to keep the numberpad and ditch the arrow keys since I do all the cursor stuff with autohotkey from my home row anyway...

I think I have a dremel tool somewhere, would be *fun* to do!

[lowpoly]

maybe not on my das II, which is just beautiful and i'm sure i'll butcher it!) but maybe on a g80-3000

A Das II basically is a G80-3000 without print.

The Dremel is the right tool for the PCB but not for the case.

I wonder if the pcb from a white G80-1800 will fit into a black G81-1800 case. Keycaps should be interchangeable as well...

[wellington1869]

I wonder if the pcb from a white G80-1800 will fit into a black G81-1800 case. Keycaps should be interchangeable as well...

if it did, that would be ideal.  There must be a way of having a compact/black/bluecherry for about $80 in materials.  The white g80's and g81's are cheap on ebay (I picked up the qtronix kt-305 for instance (same as g80-1800 in white) for $22, shipping included. G81's can be obtained for about the same. There was an auction yesterday for $4 plus shipping (and "completed listings" shows another one that sold for $4 previously).

[correction: the one I saw for $4 was a g81-7000 - in black - same as g81-1800 but with a small 'hump' for a magnetic card reader, which I dont mind -- it actually would make an excellent document or notecard holder! ]

The more normal g81-1800 in black seem to be going for about $60, which isnt bad if a pcb-swap works, tho thats a lot more than $4 I can live with a magnetic reader hump for $4.

[lowpoly]

If it doesn't fit at all you can always sell them.

[lowpoly]

The more normal g81-1800 in black seem to be going for about $60, which isnt bad if a pcb-swap works, tho thats a lot more than $4 I can live with a magnetic reader hump for $4.

Here in Germany they sometimes sell white G80-1800s for Euro 3,-. These are former POS keyboards that come with a different controller. The controller has second connector. I think it's for an external magnetic stripe reader, not sure though.

[wellington1869]

If it doesn't fit at all you can always sell them.

ok, i'll do this experiment right after I submit my dissertation (few weeks). Unless someone wants to beat me to it, just the post results on this forum

[wellington1869]

2 potential issues I can see with swapping a g80-1800 pcb into a black case g81-1800.
 
1) the space bar on the g80 is shorter, as far as i can tell. Also some of the four buttons to the right of the space bar (win, alt, etc) are a bit longer, as well. So the black keys from the g81 may not fit perfectly in that area onto the g80 pcb. This could be a deal breaker for the pcb swap idea.
 
2) Will the keycaps themselves from the g81's (MY switches, I believe) even fit over the MX switches in the g80? They're different switches after all.
 
I'll likely try it anyway tho at some point.
 
Another option is to get the cherry 11800 or 11900 (spacesaver with trackball/trackpad on right) in black and swap out their brown switches for the blues in the g80. That would be a switch-swap rather than a pcb swap. Also you'd be stuck with a trackpad, but maybe thats not so bad. The 118/119's are fairly cheap and available in black.

[lowpoly]

I just checked cherry.de and the boards look the same to me. Maybe you compared an ANSI to an ISO board? For G80-3000 and G81-3000 they even use the same box.

Keycaps should have the same interface.

[xyzzy]

Another option is to get the cherry 11800 or 11900 (spacesaver with trackball/trackpad on right) in black and swap out their brown switches for the blues in the g80. That would be a switch-swap rather than a pcb swap. Also you'd be stuck with a trackpad, but maybe thats not so bad. The 118/119's are fairly cheap and available in black.

G80-11900 keyboards (the trackpad ones) normally have black Cherry switches (linear) and are indeed available in black or white color.

On the other hand, I've seen the G80-11800 (trackball version) only under the Compaq label, and in white (and no extra windows keys). They have brown switches but I've never seen one in black color.

[wellington1869]

G80-11900 keyboards (the trackpad ones) normally have black Cherry switches (linear) and are indeed available in black or white color.
 
On the other hand, I've seen the G80-11800 (trackball version) only under the Compaq label, and in white (and no extra windows keys). They have brown switches but I've never seen one in black color.

 thats interesting, i didnt realize the trackball and trackpad versions would have different kinds of switches.

[wellington1869]

I just checked cherry.de and the boards look the same to me. Maybe you compared an ANSI to an ISO board? For G80-3000 and G81-3000 they even use the same box.
 
Keycaps should have the same interface.

hmmm, it appears there are several models of the g80-1800 (with windows keys vs without, for instance) and on some its possible the spacebar is of different length.
 
for instance, here is a qtronix kt-305 (same as g80-1800, supposedly), note the short spacebar. (the spacebar ends at the N key)
 
Here's a g81-1800 in black - note the longer spacebar. (the space bar ends in the middle of the M key)
 
Here's a g80-1800 without windows keys - note the longer spacebar and only 2 keys to the right of the space bar
 
so seems these are three different layouts, no? So if doing a pcb swap, we would have to match the g80/g81 layouts (if the black colored keycaps are going to be able to fit from one to the other). I'm actually not sure that g80/g81 have identical layouts at all in any versions (let alone finding them both at reasonable prices on ebay...).

[wellington1869]

So i've located a g81-1800 in black. Its the model where the spacebar is 'long' and it has four 'short' keys to the right of the space bar (alt, win, and 2 others).
 
two questions:
1) presumably it has black (ie, MY) switches. Will I be able to simply transfer keycaps from it onto blue switches?
 
2) as far as swapping out the pcb from a g80-1800, the profiles are obviousy very close, but they wont be perfect. I'll be using the pcb from a qtronix kt-305 which has the 'short' space bar and different styled keys to the right of the space bar. So here the question is, will I be able to squish the black 'longer' spacebar from the g81 onto this? Probably not...
 
in other words, pcb swap might work BUT it would leave me with 5 keys that are white (ie, unswappable keycaps) on a keyboard that will be otherwise all black.
basically, i have not yet seen g80/g81 with exact same keycap profile (let alone at reasonable prices (under $50 used)).
 
I suppose a second option is to do what karlito did with his hhkb and unsolder the black keys out and solder the blue keys in. Ugh.
 
Too bad a stem-swap is out of the question between MY and MX keys.

[wellington1869]

comparing profiles of the g80/81 and the 118/119, it seems that:
 
-keyboard with blue switches have 'short' spacebars (end at the N key).
-keyboards with black switches have medium spacebar (end at mid-M key)
-keyboards with brown switches have longest spacebar (end at mid-"<" key)
 
if this is true, a pcb swap may technically be possible but you'll be left with 5 keys whose keycaps cant be swapped for the right color.

[wellington1869]

given this, I think karlitos absolute brute-force method may be the only real possiblity?

[xyzzy]

thats interesting, i didnt realize the trackball and trackpad versions would have different kinds of switches.

To be more exact, I've seen the trackpad model (G80-11900) listed in online retail stores with any of the Cherry switches variants. But their price was well above USD 100.

In my previous message I was refering to the cheap ones that come out every now and then on eBay - they have a high chance to be the linear model as it's the most commonly available.

OTOH the trackpoint one (Compaq labeled G80-11800) is a pretty safe bet if you're looking for a cheap brown switches board.

[xyzzy]

given this, I think karlitos absolute brute-force method may be the only real possiblity?

If you're lucky, you may not have to take out the solder. It all depends how the switches are mounted.

See here: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=5952#post5952

[wellington1869]

But their price was well above USD 100.

In my previous message I was refering to the cheap ones that come out every now and then on eBay - they have a high chance to be the linear model as it's the most commonly available.

ya, over a $100 and I tend to lose interest
 

If you're lucky, you may not have to take out the solder. It all depends how the switches are mounted.

i see. well, then it seems like it all depends on getting the right keyboard (which is kind of a challenge; people who sell them cheaply tend to not want to do the work to show you the keycaps
 
so that means maybe spending over a $100 trying to acquire the right keyboards - more work and money once again than I wanted.
 
At some point I guess I might just acquire a black g81 or 119 and then resign myself to desoldering. But not for a couple of months, too many other things to do for now.
 
Still, was worth it to get this additional info. I'm still on a quest for a spacesaver black affordable blue-cherry board. may have to eventually solder my own I guess  (Or bite the bullet and wait for the $150 black modular mac from DSI in a few months).

[wellington1869]

If you're lucky, you may not have to take out the solder. It all depends how the switches are mounted.
 
See here: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=5952#post5952

OMG, I didnt realize you had already done this! And you own a black touchboard - this is basically what i'm trying to do (except I would have preferred a g80 (without the touchboard) rather than the 119 (touchboard).
 
So basically a black 119 (with I assume black-MX switches - hence stem swapping is possible) is maybe what I should pick up on ebay. I have boards with browns or blues to pull the switches out of, like you did.
 
my understanding was that for the g81's on the other hand, desoldering (a la karlito) was likely the only option, because my understanding is that g81's use the MY switch which is different in construction from MX.

[wellington1869]

by the way XYZZY how do you like your trackpad with the swapped switches? do you use it?
thanks!

[wellington1869]

Option #3:
 
1 g80-1800 keyboard in white
 
1 can of duplicolor vinyl dye (glossy black)
1 can of duplicolor "adhesive promotor"
1 can of "appliance epoxy" sealer
light sandpaper
isopropyl alcohol
nose mask and eye protection
 
presto, DIY das keyboard.

[xyzzy]

So basically a black 119 (with I assume black-MX switches - hence stem swapping is possible) is maybe what I should pick up on ebay. I have boards with browns or blues to pull the switches out of, like you did.

Correct, G80 series = MX switches

by the way XYZZY how do you like your trackpad with the swapped switches? do you use it?

I've used it for quite a few months, really loved it. The browns feel so much better than the blacks IMO, and are my preferred switches together with the BS (*).

Now it's in a closet as I've replaced it with a Cherry Ergoplus, still with brown switches.


(*) opinion based solely on my (quite) limited experience, as I still have to put my hands on many other switches like white Alps, blue Cherrys, Topre, NMB, etc. etc.

[lowpoly]

my understanding was that for the g81's on the other hand, desoldering (a la karlito) was likely the only option, because my understanding is that g81's use the MY switch which is different in construction from MX.

You cannot desolder MY switches as there is no pcb. Those are membrane keyboards.

And I finally got your point regarding the space bar length. So that could be another deal breaker. But if the length is the same I'd say it's highly likely that the connection point and the level mechanism are the same as well. With boards of the same generation at least.

[wellington1869]

You cannot desolder MY switches as there is no pcb

ok, good to know, thanks. I'm slowly coming up to speed on the labyrinth that is the cherry experience
 
(Incidentally, the spacebar length also matters to me because I use the two ALT keys on either side of it with my thumbs, they are my two hotkeys in Autohotkey  So an abnormal spacebar tends to mess me up cuz my thumbs can only reach so far