iGrip-Great or crap?

[Input Nirvana]

http://www.alphagrips.com/

Check out the video, seems like it might be a good ergonomic solution for some people. The website claims they are going to be making other similar devices as well.

[spolia optima]

Looks like something I might want to plug into my spinal cord.

[quadibloc]

I can't really answer your question. Maybe it would work well. But one would have to make a big investment in time and effort to find out. If enough people had done so, so that this particular style of device was a new standard, I might have the confidence to think it was likely to be worth the effort. But otherwise, when new devices like that are brought out, I feel very little inclination to try being one of the pioneers.

[Xuan]

Number two I say.

[AndrewZorn]

GAMING KEYBOARD!?  awesome!
they said the magic words, it will sell!

everyone has already though of everything i have
not that i consider this a particularly good idea

[hyperlinked]

This is probably great for someone who has a serious disability that makes it difficult for him or her to sit at a normal keyboard comfortably, but it may not be the killer product that you might think it is for avoiding overuse injuries. Not having tried one of these before, it'd be hard to speculate what it would do to your hands if you were keyboarding with the iGrip for 40 to 80 hours a week. Your thumbs would certainly be a lot more sore.

[hoggy]

I'm really quite tempted by the igrip as it means I can drastically alter my posture during my working day.  Wouldn't want to type on it all day, so the other keyboards will still be on my desk.  

I sent them a question a while back, and got a quick reply that answered my question fully without any marketing or sales BS.  So they've scored some brownie points with me.

Should I end up with one, I will report back...

[tom45678]

Seems alright for some casual gaming, but I have to wonder why they did not make it wireless, or at least offer a wireless option.  

I wouldn't want to use it when playing anything too serious,  but a control pad with the ability to type at full speed would be pretty appealing when gaming to relax.

[kriminal]

i dislike wireless peripherals for the simple fact that it has to charge....

[Specter_57]

..

or need batteries...

......
Spec57

[Input Nirvana]

I just got an email from Alphagrip support stating that a new run of units will be for sale by June with an improved optical trackball over the current mechanical trackball and 6 key rollover. $100

There is an old one on Ebay right now, but it's selling for an almost new price...
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290406454937#ht_1084wt_1167

It's totally worth the $20 to wait 3 months to get the upgraded model and the warranty...


     EDIT: It sold for $100+SHIPPING, same cost as a new and improved one...

Also found many sources of info making the unit wireless.

[hoggy]

Should I end up with one, I will report back...

Bought one of these from ebay - arrived today.  Initial impression is that it's too small for my hands (I take an L, XL or XXL glove depending on who makes it) and this makes it fiddly.  Here are a few pictures of modifications made by other users, that I might try.

It comes with a stand so it can sit upright without adding strain to the cable.  I suspect that putting it down on the desk without using the stand will damage it - this is a bit disappointing.  I'm thinking that a rigid plastic tube that fits over the usb cable will fix it.

Trackball seems to work well.  

I'm going to spend a little while getting the remapping as I want it.  

I'll type out a review as soon as I can use the controller to do so, or when I give up on it - which ever comes first.

[Input Nirvana]

Neat, I look forward to it. I still have a high interest level in one of these. My "budget" is only about $50, so it may be a while before I come across one that cheap.

[ricercar]

Is this how they're all packaged?

[Input Nirvana]

Show Image

Is this how they're all packaged?

At least 50% of the reason I want one.....

[Input Nirvana]

Show Image

Is this how they're all packaged?

I'm hoping for a personal delivery...

[williamjoseph]

I am sufficiently fascinated enough to get one when I can find employment again. I hate not having money.....  The only thing i would have a problem with would be the new key layout.  I'll bite.

[williamjoseph]

maby Ripster could do a cherry mod......

[washuai]

It is good they're doing upgrades.  I thought I saw information on this product over a year ago, so I'm surprised this is the first time of this on here.  I hadn't bothered to do a search, even though I've been curious about how well it works.  

Can you work all the keys on it quickly, with your hands in a similar resting position, to say holding a PS3 controller?
What force is required for key activation?

[williamjoseph]

it looks more like a dreamcast controler to me.......    But i do like the idea they had converting the trackball to optical instead of the rollers that it had previously....

[hoggy]

It is good they're doing upgrades.  I thought I saw information on this product over a year ago, so I'm surprised this is the first time of this on here.  I hadn't bothered to do a search, even though I've been curious about how well it works.  

Can you work all the keys on it quickly, with your hands in a similar resting position, to say holding a PS3 controller?
What force is required for key activation?

The website states around 80grams of force to activate the switches.  It feels lighter as the force is applied towards the thumbs so the fingers don't have to do all of the work.

I'm still learning to type on it, but I think around 30-40wpm should be a reasonable goal after a month or so (taking my time as I want to keep the accuracy high this time).  The switches seem to be well placed - but the size of your hands might trash this.


If I can manage to learn to use it effectively and it's pleasant to use, I'll look into getting a monitor arm so I can alternate standing at my desk using the igrip and sitting with a normal keyboard.
 
Still early days.

[kriminal]

iCrap...

[shrap]

It looks like a better solution than something like the Logitech diNovo Mini if you're working without a desk (for living room usage or something). It might be better than my iPhone running TouchMouse.

But I just noticed it's not wireless, what the heck is that.

[Input Nirvana]

I finally got one of these...it's I-KOOL! Feels good in hands (quality build), functionality is quite fantastic, very, very well thought out and implemented. Very easy and convenient to operate. PC/Mac no issues. An ultimate ergo input device at the absolute minimum. Also extremely portable if you don't want to lug a big keyboard around. But also a different animal. It's as different of a keyboard as a Datahand.

I wish I had gotten one of these a looong time ago. I'm completely surprised these aren't everywhere. Goes to show the power of big corporation titan marketing verses the little company.

Size is a little small for my shoulders/hands

What it is:
-Ergo, ergo, ergo, ERGO!
-convenient for portability
-no brainer dual use typing/gaming
-comfortable/relaxing for leaning back typing AND mousing
-an excellent input device for using in conjunction with another form of input (for a change) uses different muscles
-quiet operation
-seriously ergo...no carpal tunnel, etc.

What it is not:
-100 wpm typing.

[hoggy]

I'm glad yours is quiet.  The rattle is one of the reasons I stopped using mine.

  The main reason was that it was just too small to be comfortable - couldn't relax and hold it gently.

As you say, it does have some good points.

[microsoft windows]

A  i-product that's ergonomic? I  can't  believe  it!

[Input Nirvana]

What rattles on the Alphagrip? Does yours have a gold or white logo on the top?

[hoggy]

It's got a white logo.  It's the switches on the back that rattle - there's a little bit of play on each switch before it starts to register...

[Input Nirvana]

Yes, mine has that also...it is very slight and only seems to make noise if I shake the Alphagrip. I'm not a typing monster on it yet, maybe it is noisier if many keys are pressed rapidly? I don't know if they can be dampened...seems worth it if the noise is bothersome.

Any other thoughts on it? Pros/Cons? Are you keeping it? I've seen someone make theirs wireless. Very cool.

[hoggy]

I'll keep it case I can feel it calling again...

I bought it from eBay so it's possible that it's just well worn down.  Just resting fingers on the keys is enough to cause lots of noise.

The trackball is very good.  The form factor really does work.  

I'd prefer if the fingers did more than just rock a switch in one of two directions - something more akin the movement required for the datahand would be a massive improvement.  

It's an adventurous design - quite a distance from a traditional keyboard.  I wish other companies were as bold.

[Input Nirvana]

I'm collecting information from the Alphagrip forum, and a few other searches looking for mods and other sources to possibly buy a couple of them. I believe they have huge potential. Wireless is major and maybe programmability, etc. If you know of any info...please share!

I agree with everything you say about the Alphagrip. Mine's not noisy, though.

[Input Nirvana]

hoggy:

Upon closer inspection, each of the 3 lower rocker switches on both sides of the back side have the play you mention, but not the topmost rocker (index finger). It also seems to be greatest on the bottom rocker, and gets less on each switch as you move up until the uppermost, where there is no play.

Is this true of your unit?

[Input Nirvana]

I'm collecting information from the Alphagrip forum, and a few other searches looking for mods and other sources to possibly buy a couple of them. I believe they have huge potential. Wireless is major and maybe programmability, etc. If you know of any info...please share!

I agree with everything you say about the Alphagrip. Mine's not noisy, though.

I got my hands on another Alphagrip.

I'm going to make the unit wireless and maybe programmable. I'll put up a post in the "Modifications" section after I get most of the details worked out. The more I use and get better with the Alphagrip, the more impressive I think it is.

[hoggy]

hoggy:

Upon closer inspection, each of the 3 lower rocker switches on both sides of the back side have the play you mention, but not the topmost rocker (index finger). It also seems to be greatest on the bottom rocker, and gets less on each switch as you move up until the uppermost, where there is no play.

Is this true of your unit?

I think you might have something there.

Not all of the switches on the back have the same play.  The tighter switches seem to be at the very top, or 2nd from the bottom.  Could be a wear artifact...

[appie747]

I could buy an iGrip for 35 euro. I'd have to drive 90 km for it, with fuel prices 1,70 euro per liter. Should I go for it??

[Input Nirvana]

Does it have a Gold logo or a White logo? Does it come with a long usb cable (9ft/2.5m)?

In the US, typically somewhere in the $60-$100 USD range  and worth it. Durable units, not as subject to wear quite the same way as a flat keyboard. About $110 new WHEN they make them. Someone I know just sold one on ebay and only got $40, right after another sold for $95.

My example (not trying to sell ya!): I have a well-used unit I'm keeping, and a mod unit, so I'm selling an almost unused unit for $85 plus shipping (midway between $60-$100). It's all relative.

[appie747]

Does it have a Gold logo or a White logo? Does it come with a long usb cable (9ft/2.5m)?

it's got a white logo. What's the difference between gold and white? The cable is 5m.

[Input Nirvana]

The gold logo are the earlier ones made, the white logo are the more recent ones. Great having a long usb. If you are typing 3m is fine, but if you game with a large screen, the super long one is very cool. (I'm not a gamer).

[appie747]

This guy called me this evening and offered to bring me the Alphagrip to my home for 36 euro! So now I have one in mint condition! Now what is the quickest way to learn to type on this thing??

[Input Nirvana]

Does it have the legend stickers on the front? Hopefully, it makes it a lot easier. There is a learning curve...

Just use it.

[appie747]

Does it have the legend stickers on the front? Hopefully, it makes it a lot easier. There is a learning curve...

Just use it.

i`m using it right now. there where no stickers, but I printed a cheat sheet and stuck it on...
well... I`ll have to put some effort into it.

[Input Nirvana]

Ahhhh....bummer, the 2 legends on the front are almost invaluable in learning, especially the uncommon symbols. Go to http://www.alphagrips.com website there will be a very clean sheet to reference.

There is a pretty big hump to get over, then, like everything else, it gets much easier...don't give up before getting over that hump...it deserves that chance. It's a different animal with a lot of interesting perks I've noticed.

[appie747]

Ahhhh....bummer, the 2 legends on the front are almost invaluable in learning, especially the uncommon symbols. Go to http://www.alphagrips.com website there will be a very clean sheet to reference.

I think you mean this image? That's what I stuck on the AG, so I'm ok with that.

Because I type in Dvorak I was wondering if it's a good idea to remap the AG to a dvorak-like lay-out. Although I notice that there are already more vowels on the 'home row' with the AG than Qwerty. (I consider TESA-NIOP the home row on the AG) Also with Dvorak the second most used keys are on the row above it, but on the AG I would have to retract my fingers, so more like the row below it. So probably a bad idea to remap...

[Input Nirvana]

That image is great. As long as you can see what is directly opposite your fingers, like a mirror image. Perfect.

I briefly considered remapping 1) because I use Colemak and for me it works better than QWERTY, and 2) because if you are trying for ergo, there just may be a couple key swaps that may be better for you. BUT...since the design is such a radical departure from a flat keyboard, I don't think "layouts" matter much...maybe 10-20% tops. Soooo, I have not remapped, but to be fair, I am not a regular user at this point so I am not the best person to offer a well thought out opinion. I have seen forums where people have gotten quite creative on remapping, I'm not at that point. I'm planning on becoming more adept, then evaluating a possible remap.

Hoggy might be a good person to ask

In a couple months I want to make one of my units wireless. You may want to contact Mike at Alphagrip, he has been an excellent source of info/help with everything Alphagrip.

[appie747]

I`m using the AG on the couch now in front of the tv. I`m starting to get the hang of it, slowly... For browsing and a bit of typing it works great already!

[Input Nirvana]

How do you like the thumb trackball and thumb buttons?

[appie747]

How do you like the thumb trackball and thumb buttons?

I like that very much. What I like less is the R and H keys, they need more pressure than the other keys. There is a bump when I press these.

[appie747]

Just noticed that when numlock is on, backspace and arrow keys (combined with red shift) don't work? That's strange or is there some logic behind this?

[Input Nirvana]

When the NUMLOCK is on, the keyboard acts as though the RED SHIFT is depressed. If you want to use the "normal mode" functions while the NUMLOCK is active, you press the RED SHIFT key and it reverts to "normal mode" for that key press.

Since numbers are a RED SHIFT accessed symbol, I suppose the NUMLOCK is nothing more than a RED SHIFT lock key.

[appie747]

Thanks! With this issue solved, I like the AG more and more. It is well designed I think. Some people complain that it should be bigger. But maybe if it was bigger that would cause other problems, like the keys would be harder te reach?

Anyway Input nirvana: are you H and R keys also harder te press?

I looked at the forum about the AG (google group). There's a lot of info there, more than on Geekhack or Deskthority.net (nothing to find there)