[IC] GMK Classic Retro Zhuyin (GB 8/6/21 - 8/27/21)

[LightningXI]

big pog

[Zeelobby]

Nice

[Vadurr]

Love this.

[chewnior]

very nice 

[futurecrime]

Hi this is good ****.

[Magnificent Bureaucrat]

Beige, sub-legends I don't understand and ISO UK in base kit. This is very much relevant to my interests.

[chung]

 

[UGunaLOSE]

This looks nice! Watching with interest

[HoodrowThrillson]

Updated renders, more or less final kitting.

Getting GB date then onto pricing and what not.

Not really tempted to run deskmats or anything.

My only idea is to turn this photo I took in Taiwan into a deskmat.

[dimo]

I think some subtle beige deskmats could be nice to have, but the picture is really beautiful and I thought I'd try test how it'd look if it took the theme of the set. color tweaking necessary ofc :-)

[summerteas]

i'm 100% in on the set, but i think having chiang kai-shek memorial hall for a deskmat is a little too on the nose (although the photo is beautiful).

perhaps some illustrations of things taiwan is known for could work? street food, night markets, artisan crafting, etc. otherwise, using imagery from the historic buildings on dihua street might be nice if you wanted to go for that retro/beige look.

[HoodrowThrillson]

i'm 100% in on the set, but i think having chiang kai-shek memorial hall for a deskmat is a little too on the nose (although the photo is beautiful).

perhaps some illustrations of things taiwan is known for could work? street food, night markets, artisan crafting, etc. otherwise, using imagery from the historic buildings on dihua street might be nice if you wanted to go for that retro/beige look.

I'm quite fond of using a photo I took in Taiwan, strictly because anyone can just google what Taiwan looks like and whip up an illustration. A photo captures what I got to experience when I was there.

We'll see, I got like 1000 Taiwan photos I haven't filtered through.

[summerteas]

I'm quite fond of using a photo I took in Taiwan, strictly because anyone can just google what Taiwan looks like and whip up an illustration. A photo captures what I got to experience when I was there.

We'll see, I got like 1000 Taiwan photos I haven't filtered through.

that's fair, looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

[HappyB0T]

i'm 100% in on the set, but i think having chiang kai-shek memorial hall for a deskmat is a little too on the nose (although the photo is beautiful).

perhaps some illustrations of things taiwan is known for could work? street food, night markets, artisan crafting, etc. otherwise, using imagery from the historic buildings on dihua street might be nice if you wanted to go for that retro/beige look.

I'm quite fond of using a photo I took in Taiwan, strictly because anyone can just google what Taiwan looks like and whip up an illustration. A photo captures what I got to experience when I was there.

We'll see, I got like 1000 Taiwan photos I haven't filtered through.

I think this is a cool idea

[HoodrowThrillson]

Since this project's launch date is close(r) than before. I've decided to revisit the kitting.

Things I will be weighing (please speak up if you hold an opinion):

Removal of the 3 ISO keys that don't have sublegends (numbers 1, 2, 3 keys)
Reason: They don't have sublegends
Con: ISO people won't be happy

Creation of 3 molds with sublegends for the 3 ISO keys
Reason: Because those don't exist yet
Con: Added cost to overall set to appease a small group of people, considering the largest market is the United States, it would be hard to justify going above and beyond.

Revert standard bottom row to R4 (so bottom row kitting is more similar to KA1953)
Reason: KA1953 is like that
Con: Only one I can imagine is if someone wanted to use standard bottom row with R5. Might be some compat issues that use a mixture of this and the other R5 keys for the bottom row. Also additional cost associated with it.

Addition of the 3 keys for 40s support
Reason: it's only 3 keys to appease a small subset of the hobby
Con: Historical data shows that even with a full fledge base kit, they sold very little (could be due to high cost of that + base combined). Each additional key adds cost that is ultimately paid for by the end user (you).

Removal of 6U off centered spacebar
Reason: Only used for those odd ball OEM keyboards, I don't know anyone putting GMK keycaps on their RAZER BLACKWIDOW V3 MINI HYPERSPEED Wireless 65% Mechanical Gaming Keyboard with Razer Chroma™ RGB
Con: Honestly this would probably affect a super small subset of the community. However, I don't know any custom keyboard that uses a off centered spacebar. If someone can school me on this, that will be greatly appreciated.

Removal of the stepped Control
Reason: People told me they don't use it, I don't see it that often
Con: People told me they use it, I don't see it that often

I just want to note that I don't plan on removing all of these keys. Where cuts are made, some additions could be made. I just want to offer a base kit that isn't overloaded with keys not commonly used while having it compatible with a lot of layouts (kind of contradictory but I hope you understand the idea). I won't be able to appease everyone but I want to make sure that the base kit I present is something that can be offered within the range that we're used to from GMK sets.

Modification of Cherry enter key (closer to KA1953, make the cherry red and green)
Reason: OG vibes
Con: Cherry might just tell me now

[LightningXI]

Removal of the 3 ISO keys that don't have sublegends (numbers 1, 2, 3 keys)
Reason: They don't have sublegends
Con: ISO people won't be happy

Creation of 3 molds with sublegends for the 3 ISO keys
Reason: Because those don't exist yet
Con: Added cost to overall set to appease a small group of people, considering the largest market is the United States, it would be hard to justify going above and beyond.

Personally, willing to pay a little bit more just to get these properly done. I think there is high importance in ensuring that the first run of such keys ends up with inclusive compatibilty.

Revert standard bottom row to R4 (so bottom row kitting is more similar to KA1953)
Reason: KA1953 is like that
Con: Only one I can imagine is if someone wanted to use standard bottom row with R5. Might be some compat issues that use a mixture of this and the other R5 keys for the bottom row. Also additional cost associated with it.

KA1953 was made during a time when R5 (specifically 1.25u modifier keys) was not fully compatible. I see no reason to revert to R4. I really think that R5 should be the norm / pushed for (at least) now that it is in fact all possible for compatibility.

Addition of the 3 keys for 40s support
Reason: it's only 3 keys to appease a small subset of the hobby
Con: Historical data shows that even with a full fledge base kit, they sold very little (could be due to high cost of that + base combined). Each additional key adds cost that is ultimately paid for by the end user (you).

Removal of 6U off centered spacebar
Reason: Only used for those odd ball OEM keyboards, I don't know anyone putting GMK keycaps on their RAZER BLACKWIDOW V3 MINI HYPERSPEED Wireless 65% Mechanical Gaming Keyboard with Razer Chroma™ RGB
Con: Honestly this would probably affect a super small subset of the community. However, I don't know any custom keyboard that uses a off centered spacebar. If someone can school me on this, that will be greatly appreciated.

No particular opinion on these as they don't pertain to my range of interests for layouts.

Removal of the stepped Control
Reason: People told me they don't use it, I don't see it that often
Con: People told me they use it, I don't see it that often

Frankly, removing it is fine, as I just use the one with "Caps Lock" legend even though I ALWAYS map that key to Control.

Modification of Cherry enter key (closer to KA1953, make the cherry red and green)
Reason: OG vibes
Con: Cherry might just tell me now

Would be extremely THRILLed (ha-ha, get it?), if this were done. I am +1 for this.

[hali]

edit: i should probably answer everything i can while i'm here

Removal of the 3 ISO keys that don't have sublegends (numbers 1, 2, 3 keys)
Reason: They don't have sublegends
Con: ISO people won't be happy

Creation of 3 molds with sublegends for the 3 ISO keys
Reason: Because those don't exist yet
Con: Added cost to overall set to appease a small group of people, considering the largest market is the United States, it would be hard to justify going above and beyond.

uk zhuyin doesn't make much sense to me because it's not a real layout. i think iso should be left as terminal for this set.

Revert standard bottom row to R4 (so bottom row kitting is more similar to KA1953)
Reason: KA1953 is like that
Con: Only one I can imagine is if someone wanted to use standard bottom row with R5. Might be some compat issues that use a mixture of this and the other R5 keys for the bottom row. Also additional cost associated with it.

not much opinion here, if it's not too expensive to have full r5 then that would be cool

Addition of the 3 keys for 40s support
Reason: it's only 3 keys to appease a small subset of the hobby
Con: Historical data shows that even with a full fledge base kit, they sold very little (could be due to high cost of that + base combined). Each additional key adds cost that is ultimately paid for by the end user (you).

assuming this historical data is referring to an addon kit, it's usually combined with other things like gk64 shift, 660 shift, nav keys, windowed keys, etc that brings the cost of the kit up to the $30-$50 range. i think with enough cuts in other areas (2u shift, r3 pg up, r4 pg dn, 00 come to mind), it would be very possible to put 3-key 40s in base.

Removal of 6U off centered spacebar
Reason: Only used for those odd ball OEM keyboards, I don't know anyone putting GMK keycaps on their RAZER BLACKWIDOW V3 MINI HYPERSPEED Wireless 65% Mechanical Gaming Keyboard with Razer Chroma™ RGB
Con: Honestly this would probably affect a super small subset of the community. However, I don't know any custom keyboard that uses a off centered spacebar. If someone can school me on this, that will be greatly appreciated.

i'm no expert, but afaik the only boards that use off-center 6u are winkey layout cherry 1800s, which also require seven r5 1u keys for proper physical compatibility. i don't think it's worth supporting.
most razer boards are 6u centered. the others use 6.25u, including that new 65% thing

Removal of the stepped Control
Reason: People told me they don't use it, I don't see it that often
Con: People told me they use it, I don't see it that often

would probably not be worth keeping considering how much base is going to cost anyways

Modification of Cherry enter key (closer to KA1953, make the cherry red and green)
Reason: OG vibes
Con: Cherry might just tell me now

please do

also can we get text only numpad enter

[kbye]

Removal of the stepped Control
Reason: People told me they don't use it, I don't see it that often
Con: People told me they use it, I don't see it that often

I agree with this one. It might be a preference thing, but for boards where I map CTRL to CAPSLOCK, I always use the non-stepped version because it's a frequently used key.

[westway]

Removal of the 3 ISO keys that don't have sublegends (numbers 1, 2, 3 keys)
Reason: They don't have sublegends
Con: ISO people won't be happy

I personally don't use ISO, but I think it's important that this layout is fully supported. I would keep them.

Creation of 3 molds with sublegends for the 3 ISO keys
Reason: Because those don't exist yet
Con: Added cost to overall set to appease a small group of people, considering the largest market is the United States, it would be hard to justify going above and beyond.

Same as above.

Revert standard bottom row to R4 (so bottom row kitting is more similar to KA1953)
Reason: KA1953 is like that
Con: Only one I can imagine is if someone wanted to use standard bottom row with R5. Might be some compat issues that use a mixture of this and the other R5 keys for the bottom row. Also additional cost associated with it.

I am absolutely against this. I personally like that retro sets come out with R5. Plus, GMK KA1953 compatibility wasn't the best.

Addition of the 3 keys for 40s support
Reason: it's only 3 keys to appease a small subset of the hobby
Con: Historical data shows that even with a full fledge base kit, they sold very little (could be due to high cost of that + base combined). Each additional key adds cost that is ultimately paid for by the end user (you).

I don't have an opinion on this since I am not in 40% boards. Maybe create a small separate kit?

Removal of 6U off centered spacebar
Reason: Only used for those odd ball OEM keyboards, I don't know anyone putting GMK keycaps on their RAZER BLACKWIDOW V3 MINI HYPERSPEED Wireless 65% Mechanical Gaming Keyboard with Razer Chroma™ RGB
Con: Honestly this would probably affect a super small subset of the community. However, I don't know any custom keyboard that uses a off centered spacebar. If someone can school me on this, that will be greatly appreciated.

Same as above. I've never used it personally.

Removal of the stepped Control
Reason: People told me they don't use it, I don't see it that often
Con: People told me they use it, I don't see it that often

I personally use it on HHKB layout and prefer it over the standard R3 control. I would keep it.

Modification of Cherry enter key (closer to KA1953, make the cherry red and green)
Reason: OG vibes
Con: Cherry might just tell me now

I would have proposed it before reading your updates. Huge plus.

[tanghus]

Man, as an ISO-user who prefer stepped caps lock, I feel targeted.

That said, I like the set enough to buy it anyway.

[Magnificent Bureaucrat]

Since this project's launch date is close(r) than before. I've decided to revisit the kitting.

Things I will be weighing (please speak up if you hold an opinion):

Removal of the 3 ISO keys that don't have sublegends (numbers 1, 2, 3 keys)
Reason: They don't have sublegends
Con: ISO people won't be happy

As an ISO user I'd be totally happy to take those keys without sublegends. It's not like they'd be the only keys without them. (tilde, brackets, +/=)

[sup3r170va]

Revert standard bottom row to R4 (so bottom row kitting is more similar to KA1953)
Reason: KA1953 is like that
Con: Only one I can imagine is if someone wanted to use standard bottom row with R5. Might be some compat issues that use a mixture of this and the other R5 keys for the bottom row. Also additional cost associated with it.

OK with everything except this. I think we should have full bottom row R5, including the 1.25u mods.

Also, if stepped control is removed, is there an option for a 1.75u enter key to supplement the 3-key 40s kit?

[HoodrowThrillson]

Thanks everyone so far for your opinions, I'll create a proper form when I have the motivation to do so (maybe this long weekend?).

I'll also clarify the "bottom row like KA1953" comment, since I meant offering R4 and R5 support similar to that.

[sup3r170va]

Thanks everyone so far for your opinions, I'll create a proper form when I have the motivation to do so (maybe this long weekend?).

I'll also clarify the "bottom row like KA1953" comment, since I meant offering R4 and R5 support similar to that.

thanks. I presume you mean the 1.5u/1u/1.5u/etc bottom row would be R5, and the 1.25u/1.25u/1.25u/etc bottom row would be R4 right?
I still prefer for a full R5 for the bottom row. For one, you save 3 keys - left, bottom and right arrow keys - which can be used for other keys as needed.

[HoodrowThrillson]

Kitting questions can be found here: https://forms.gle/Mg1Tahjna9z4rm1j8

Looking for everyone's feedback.

I will be reaching out to some EU friends to help me work through the ISO key stuff.

If someone knows what other keyboards use a 6U off centered spacebar, please let me know.

[Dr_Bond]

LOVE the cherry icon add-on kit, will get if either black or colored red/green. Maybe both?

[HoodrowThrillson]

IC updated with final kitting

Removed UK ISO, yes I love supporting all layouts but since the UK-ISO variant of Zhuyin doesn't exist and since I wanted to offer this set as a "what if", it wouldn't make sense.

Removed stepped control, strong support for this one, I'm guessing because HHKB uses full control

Addition of the 3 40s keys, self explanatory. Y'all better buy a set or two.

Removal of 6U off centered, since no one could really offer me something concrete, I've yeeted it.

One thing that may change is the Cherry enter key. I will see if they're willing to do the red/green variant, but it's up to Cherry for that one. If they can offer it, I'd like to offer both options.

Also, updated renders (Thrill got a facelift since I first posted the IC)

[LightningXI]

IC updated with final kitting

Removed UK ISO, yes I love supporting all layouts but since the UK-ISO variant of Zhuyin doesn't exist and since I wanted to offer this set as a "what if", it wouldn't make sense.

Removed stepped control, strong support for this one, I'm guessing because HHKB uses full control

Addition of the 3 40s keys, self explanatory. Y'all better buy a set or two.

Removal of 6U off centered, since no one could really offer me something concrete, I've yeeted it.

One thing that may change is the Cherry enter key. I will see if they're willing to do the red/green variant, but it's up to Cherry for that one. If they can offer it, I'd like to offer both options.

Also, updated renders (Thrill got a facelift since I first posted the IC)

Great changes. Count me in.

Just need to fix one of the kit image links and you're good, cap'n.

[HoodrowThrillson]

IC updated with final kitting

Removed UK ISO, yes I love supporting all layouts but since the UK-ISO variant of Zhuyin doesn't exist and since I wanted to offer this set as a "what if", it wouldn't make sense.

Removed stepped control, strong support for this one, I'm guessing because HHKB uses full control

Addition of the 3 40s keys, self explanatory. Y'all better buy a set or two.

Removal of 6U off centered, since no one could really offer me something concrete, I've yeeted it.

One thing that may change is the Cherry enter key. I will see if they're willing to do the red/green variant, but it's up to Cherry for that one. If they can offer it, I'd like to offer both options.

Also, updated renders (Thrill got a facelift since I first posted the IC)

Great changes. Count me in.

Just need to fix one of the kit image links and you're good, cap'n.

Noticed that when I was looking for something, thanks!

I'm talking with Cherry regarding the logo usage, if possible I will opt to use all vintage logos for this set (since, this is Classic Retro).

[hali]

Please change R4 |\ key to >< for terminal ISO. It makes legend compatibility better for most ISO layouts

[Cujo26]

Can't wait for this to go live!

[lys.nordique]

Please change R4 |\ key to >< for terminal ISO. It makes legend compatibility better for most ISO layouts

+1

[HoodrowThrillson]

Please change R4 |\ key to >< for terminal ISO. It makes legend compatibility better for most ISO layouts

This can be done

(after all these sets, I still don't understand ISO)

[HoodrowThrillson]

Kits are done, Cherry approval received, renders update.

Time for quotes

[stomaha]

Can't wait for this.

[segami]

Wow! Great updates. This is an easy cop

[Diggidy]

.

[Fraaaan]

Definitely picking this up. Very hot.

[stomaha]

Any hope for an R1 equals (=) key so we can use this on compact 1800 boards like Zambumon's Sar?

[Suavity]

Would love to see an R1 '=' key as well!

Pog set.

[subieboobies]

100% in for this, keen

[HappyB0T]

Any chance of an alpha only kit?

+1 to alpha only

[directheatedtriode]

Just curious if there is any pricing info yet? Thanks

[HoodrowThrillson]

1) Kitting is final, this set has been in IC for like half a year and no one brought it up to my attention.
2) No alpha only kit.

If anyone needs an expansion on these things, please let me know. (The no alpha only kit is a part of a large conversation I've been having with myself)

Oh, pricing. I have Novelkeys's (Novelkeys'?) pricing, was gonna wait to get everyone's before posting up in the original post but here it is for anyone super antsy or impatient.

Base: $130
Shinethrough: $35
Spacebars: $25

Go bananas.

[Diggidy]

,

[Fraaaan]

I'd prefer having a base kit rather than alphas only. I guess you could poll it but consider not screwing over the people who don't have a beige GMK set already. Maybe having both a base kit and an alpha kit would be best of both worlds if that's possible.

Either way, I'm happy to pay $130 for a great base kit with R5. Awesome job, Hoodrow!

[GLOVE]

Classic design

[HoodrowThrillson]

I own a set of KA1953 with the OG Cherry stuff, the whole 9.

I could have made this an alpha only kit, but this would have hindered people who don't already have KA1953. KA1953 is now OOS from my quick looksy on Taobao, so this would have hindered those people.

There's pro cons to offering both an alpha kit + a full base kit, and I had made up my mind very early on.

[LightningXI]

I'm all in. Great kits. Nice prices.

[HappyB0T]

Really appreciate the way you elicit feedback and make changes to ICs. Well done! I'm all in.