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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: WiL11o6 on Thu, 15 December 2011, 22:30:11

Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Thu, 15 December 2011, 22:30:11: I moved from traditional logitech cheapo keyboards to a Filco Majestouch with browns and I'm not fully satisfied. It might be too tactile? I'm not exactly sure...but I sort of like the feel of cheapo keyboards. I just want an upgrade to a mechanical keyboard that I like and I don't think browns are doing it for me.

I like the browns over rubber dome of course, but not $150 more. I want to try another switch that is worth $150 more better.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 15 December 2011, 22:37:25: None really, but the linear switches would probably be a better fit. Besides the tactility, do you think brown feels too light? If so blacks might be for you. If the force to press on brown feels right then reds.
Another thing, how long have you tried it out?
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: himynameisbunny on Thu, 15 December 2011, 22:41:44: What is it that you like about rubber domes?

If you're looking for something soft, go Reds with O-Rings.

If you're looking for something medium, either Topre (but is it worth $300? Maybe) or Browns.

If you're looking for something to mash like crazy, Buckling Springs. Or try Blues, but they aren't heavy. Just light, clicky, tactile.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Thu, 15 December 2011, 23:19:24: The browns tactility bothers me I guess. The little bump feels unnatural. The rubber domes simply go down and back up, I guess I don't like the bounciness? Also, the keys are a couple mm higher than I'm used to.

I've had it for 2 weeks.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: pitashen on Thu, 15 December 2011, 23:21:48: Stay with rubber dome or go get a Topre if you got the cash.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: Tony on Thu, 15 December 2011, 23:26:08: It takes a month or so for your fingers to adapt to brown switches, which is much lighter than rubber domes. So wait 2 weeks more for full adaptation.

And what is required in adaptation?

You are used to punching the keys, now you only have to press half the distance for the key to register. Try it. It makes you press lighter,shorter, and your fingers are floating on, not punching at, the keyboard.

The little bump is very useful when touch typing. It tells you that you have passed the registration point, so you are sure that you have pressed the key without bottoming out. With rubber domes you have to press full 4mm to register (bottoming out), now you have to press 2.5mm or so before pressing another key.

The resistant force of the metal spring make your finger coming back to the pre-pressing state quickly. You don't have to withdraw your finger.

When you are truly comfortable with the mechanical keyboard, your fingers are floating on/ surfing on/flying over the keyboard effortlessly. You just use the right force for each key enough to register.

For that typing feel, a lot of geekhackers are willing to pay 150$. If you cannot get that typing feel, better sell your Filco and come back to Logitech or Genius.

Please read carefully the switch wiki to understand the diagram.

(http://www.upl.co/uploads/brown.gif)

(http://www.upl.co/uploads/cherry-brown--force-diagram.jpg)
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: himynameisbunny on Thu, 15 December 2011, 23:34:45: Quote from: Tony;471845
It takes a month or so for your fingers to adapt to brown switches, which is much lighter than rubber domes.

What he said. It took about a month before I couldn't stand to use RDs at work anymore (I had a Blackwidow at home)
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: nocturn4l3030 on Thu, 15 December 2011, 23:53:02: browns were my first switch too and after MUCH anticipation, i was pretty disappointed when i got it. when i was using rubber domes, i was so used to mashing hard on my keys, so when i got this new switch, it just felt "off" to me. anyway as mentioned already, it takes a while for your fingers to adjust, it really does. now browns are my favorite switch.

topre's feel the most similar to a rubber dome, it's just super pricey for you to find out. blue's and browns are tactile, reds and blacks are linear. if you find browns too "light" (which i'm assuming since you just came from rubber domes), you'll feel much more so with the reds. i think you might like the blacks.

but just to reiterate, stick with your browns for a bit and learn to type "lighter". if you learn to not bottom out and flow with it, you might learn to love it as much as the rest of us
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: iBro on Fri, 16 December 2011, 00:09:28: (http://i43.tinypic.com/2zf8k8w.jpg)
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: rvrebel on Fri, 16 December 2011, 00:34:43: And a few months from now you'll have to type on someone's rubber domes and hate every second of it.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Fri, 16 December 2011, 00:48:15: Thanks for the informative replies and experiences. I'll give it another couple weeks and try typing "lighter". Hopefully ill grow to love it more.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: slueth on Fri, 16 December 2011, 02:28:20: Go cherry blacks if you wanna mash away :d Or reds if you have weak fingers.
Smooth and linear all the way!
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: nhwhaup on Fri, 16 December 2011, 04:08:10: It definitely takes a bit to get used to a new keyboard. However, I as well, didn't like the tactile bump of the browns. Immediately I knew they weren't for me. Right off I knew I loved the reds. I found it rather easy to type with a lighter touch and it was much more natural for me to type on the reds. To get the full proficiency on a new board, I do think it takes at least a good week or so.

Reds and Silent topres all the way for me.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Fri, 16 December 2011, 04:54:22: Seems like Amazon is the only Filco vendor now, and the only full keyboard they sell are browns and blacks. Maybe I can give the blacks a try. I think I am more of a linear switch guy.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: bbbbqq on Fri, 16 December 2011, 05:44:39: Count me in as a hater of mx brown. Such a small tactile bump that it'll never give you any feedback, but too much that it isn't smooth. It's my second least favorite of all, after black.

Get blue and never look back
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Fri, 16 December 2011, 19:03:56: I went ahead and ordered the Filco with blacks just to try out the linear switches. I game about 40/60 typing but nothing extensive. Just chatting, and typing up in forums, that's all.

If I wanted tactility I guess I would probably go with blue switches because I tried a Razer Black Widow one and it was quite nice. The browns to me feel....dirty, gritty, and grainy for lack of better words. The tactility is there, but it's not all there so I don't know. I am not a light and floating type typer. I type around 80wpm but I don't float around keys like most people do. I am used to pressing them down all the way since I've been on rubber domes for a long time.

I listened to your advices about typing in a way where my fingers are floating across the keyboard, and while it does work well, they keys don't need to be pressed down much to get actuated and it feels like my fingers are indeed floating, but something feels missing. I like having a little pressure against my fingers to let me know I pressed it, and I like to press them down all the way. If all I did was type essays all day, I would probably get a blue switch as I can see how I don't need to put much force down at all for keys to register and put less strain on my hands in the long run, but I don't type all day. I like the satisfaction of pressing a key down all the way bottom it out you could say. I can bottom out with the browns, but that tactile bump again, makes it feel "gritty" when I do so, so I hope a linear switch without that bump would do me well.

Before I ventured into this, I was doing research and people were saying how switches are very subjective and each their own, and once you try one switch, you'll want to try them all. Once I get my blacks, I bet you I'm going to be like, "I wonder what the red switches feel like!"
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: slueth on Fri, 16 December 2011, 19:31:48: Red switches feel like blacks but lighter. I prefer blacks to reds, but they are great too. I think black is the right switch for you but if you have cash I can sell you the reds if you want.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Tue, 20 December 2011, 00:02:54: Just got my black switch and I think it may be too heavy for me. It takes much more force than I thought it would, but now I know I like linear switches. I probably should have gotten a red switch instead. Doesn't look like I have many options for red switches. I am looking at the Rosewill. How much of a quality loss will I go from a Filco to a Rosewill one?

I do like the extra pressure on the blacks when I'm playing games because it makes it feel like I am in more control of the character as I can feel each key press....but typing on it isn't as easy as I would like. Would typing on blacks be something I will get used to? Or is it a once I don't like it, I will never like it sorta thing. Because while I am typing this, my fingers are getting tired already and I didn't do much typing.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Tue, 20 December 2011, 00:09:11: Just got my black switch and I think it may be too heavy for me. It takes much more force than I thought it would, but now I know I like linear switches. I probably should have gotten a red switch instead. Doesn't look like I have many options for red switches. I am looking at the Rosewill. How much of a quality loss will I go from a Filco to a Rosewill one?
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: Gin on Tue, 20 December 2011, 02:40:59: Most of us speculate that the Rosewill has almost, if not the same quality as the Filco. If you want a tenkeyless, you could try Leopold. They are very good also.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Tue, 20 December 2011, 10:40:06: I did, but there's nowhere to demo 45cn of actuation force vs 60cn of actuation force and the brown was light to me, so how would I know an extra 15cn of force would make it that much heavier so I went with blacks.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Tue, 20 December 2011, 11:16:37: Well, I am in quite a dilemma now. I really do like the blacks for gaming, but not so much for typing. I am pretty sure once I get the reds, I will still like the blacks more for gaming. I don't really want to keep both keyboards....but I could. Since most owners here have 3-4 different boards, I just have no room for them and it'll be a hassle to switch them around.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: jkercado on Tue, 20 December 2011, 14:04:38: Quote from: ripster;474465
Keyboards are like women. You want to try them all but practicality (and fear of STD) intervenes.

Ask Panda-R. He treats his keyboards like Kim Kardashian treats husbands.

So he uses them for five hours and then gets a new one?
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: Tony on Wed, 21 December 2011, 03:10:18: Unless you buy all the switches, you cannot compare them. Most of us do so.

Usually people carefully choose the first keyboard, then quickly buy the next one, then another one really fast.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: sordna on Wed, 21 December 2011, 10:34:34: OP, while some rubber domes feel linear, most rubber domes do have sort of tactile bump.
To me the switch most like rubber domes is: Cherry MX browns with EK soft-landing pads installed.
But if you like linears go with reds. The soft-landing pads will give you that cushy rubber dome landing: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,slpads

As for a keyboard, I would go with a WASD semi-custom with red switches:
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/semi-custom-keyboard/wasd-v1-semi-custom-mechanical-keyboard.html
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: aknagi on Wed, 21 December 2011, 11:20:53: Perhaps the only sane advice is to sell it, if the best you can hope for is an expensive "artificially" acquired habit. It could be argued that someone who prefers rubber domes is at an advantage, as they will save cash, find it much easier to purchase keyboards, and won't begrudge having to use someone else's keyboard!

Why not spend the extra on a better monitor / mouse / chair or something that will provide real value for you?
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: eth0s on Wed, 21 December 2011, 12:02:50: Hmm, well if the OP likes rubber domes, maybe don't fight it, and just go back to rubber domes. There are some real fancy rubber dome keyboards available, with all the bells and whistles (and LED's!). Logitech has a rubber domed keyboard for over $150, so that might be the answer. Mechanical keyboards are not for everyone. Not everyone will like them. Enrico Ferrari once said that he did not make cars for everyone, and that his cars are not meant to appeal to the masses. However, if the OP wants to give mechs one my try, IMHO, Cherry MX red switches are the closest your going to get in a mechanical keyboard to the feeling of a rubber dome keyboard. It won't be the same, but it will be the closest thing. And I will repeat what has been said above, the other option is for the OP to dig deep and spend $300 on a Topre. Is happiness worth $300? I would say yes, but that is just me.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: nhwhaup on Wed, 21 December 2011, 13:16:54: You really cannot tell how well you will like the switches until you try them and really try them for a bit. I speak from experience - have spent a small fortune on keyboards after joining this forum. First I tried the browns, then full sized Real Force with variable weight, then full sized Filco with reds, then TKL Filco with reds, then TKL Realforce 86U variable, and then Poker with reds and 87U Silent Realforce. And then before the mechanical keyboards and topres, I tried a multitude of retail rubber domes. It has been like an addiction the buying and returning or selling but I now know my preferences. I like a light touch and like the small form of the TKL versions. But I would not have figured out the best options for me unless I tried all of the above. In addition, I also know I like white keycaps in PBT better than the ABS ones that tend to take a shine in no time. Truly though you need to work with a keyboard for a couple of weeks to fully appreciate the feel of it.

Thankfully there is a great classifieds section on this forum so you can sell and the next keyboard connisour can come along and try out your board. It's funny as I sold the 86U RealForce to another Geekhacker and he just recently sold it again to another. So at the end of the day it's not totally a waste if you can sell the board to buy another. My family just laughs at me and I don't tell anyone at work as they would lock me away for sure.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Thu, 22 December 2011, 17:48:28: Thanks for all the advice guys. I returned my Filco Majestouch with blacks for a Rosewill with reds that was cheaper. I am typing on it right now and I am actually happy for once. Went through browns and blacks, didn't like the blues, and lastly the reds. The reds feel so much better than the blacks as the blacks were way too heavy, and the browns had a weird tactile bump that I don't think I was ever going to get used to. I was gonna get a Filco with reds, but they didn't sell them on Amazon and read that the Rosewill (newegg) version is just a rebranded Filco.

The quality of the Rosewill is up there with the Filco, the only thing I miss from the Filco are the keycaps. I don't like the letter printing on the Rosewill because I am able to feel the actual letters, while the Filcos are smooth throughout. But that's no biggie since I can always switch out keycaps later on. I am happy now with these reds. Thanks for the help guys! Typing on this is so much easier and fun than browns/blacks and surely my old rubber domes.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: nhwhaup on Thu, 22 December 2011, 19:30:40: Glad you settled on a keeper. The reds are right up there for me as well. I go back and forth between the reds and the silent topres as my favorites. Both have the best feel and sound for me.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Thu, 22 December 2011, 19:58:32: It almost feels too light but now I'm just being picky hah.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: Tony on Thu, 22 December 2011, 20:22:53: Quote from: WiL11o6;476309
It almost feels too light but now I'm just being picky hah.

I think Rosewill has a complaint form for you to fill. All geekhackers are nit picky anyway.
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Thu, 22 December 2011, 23:15:57: Haha, looks like the reds are supposed to be this light anyway so no biggie. It's definitely easier to type on than blacks, and much smoother than browns so that's a good thing. Just wished it was a TAD bit heavier, because I am bottoming out sometimes, but no problem at all!
Title: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: nhwhaup on Fri, 23 December 2011, 05:25:11: Quote from: WiL11o6;476407
Haha, looks like the reds are supposed to be this light anyway so no biggie. It's definitely easier to type on than blacks, and much smoother than browns so that's a good thing. Just wished it was a TAD bit heavier, because I am bottoming out sometimes, but no problem at all!

Give it some more time - your fingers will learn to float over the keys and you'll have less bottoming out. Even bottoming out on the reds is not so bad. If the bottoming out bothers you, you can always try the soft landing pads from Elite Keyboards. I had them on my reds for awhile but took them off as I actually preferred the light tapping sound and the full movement of the keys.
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: kaefers on Sun, 08 March 2015, 06:49:50: Hi,

first post here! I know this has not been ipdated in 3+ years, but it did help me a lot to figure out what switch I might want. ;D

I've always had (cheapo) rubber dome keyboards, mostly Dell from work that I then also used at home (to not have a change at all which is very important for my work). But I find the cheap rubber dome Dell's, even when new, sometimes miss keystrokes and that really annoys me. Thus, I am looking for a Cherry MX / Topre / else switch.
I got myself a MX Red, Black, Brown, Blue sampler board from maxkeyboard - the only thing I could find here in the UK. I already spent hours clicking on these and my rubber dome, but I just cannot make up my mind. Since I only have one of each Cherry MX switch, I feel it's not realistic enough for me to decide.
My rubber dome is quite heavy, with medium keystroke length I guess. The MX travel distance is longer, I tried some (unknown) o-rings which makes all 4 MX switches much better for me already.
The switch that feels best is probably the red and the blue (minus the sound). I wish the brown would give the same tactile feel as the blue does - I think they feel different and I much like the precise bump of the blue. I also feel the brown is gritty, grinding, unnatural - there is something there, but then not really. Maybe the sampler I have has a broken brown switch b/c I just would not understand from this one switch how so many people like it. :/ It feels like the brown is used / worn out although it seems new.
Anyway, I think I will go ahead and get a keyboard with MX reds or blacks, although I'd really like to try the MX clears, too. They are supposedly the most similar to rubber domes??
Also I will have a look at the "Soft-Landing Pads" if I can get them here in the UK - I am sure I would like those :)

Thanks for all the info and suggestions here!!!
k
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Sun, 08 March 2015, 07:19:02: Quote from: kaefers on Sun, 08 March 2015, 06:49:50
Hi,

first post here! I know this has not been ipdated in 3+ years, but it did help me a lot to figure out what switch I might want. ;D

I've always had (cheapo) rubber dome keyboards, mostly Dell from work that I then also used at home (to not have a change at all which is very important for my work). But I find the cheap rubber dome Dell's, even when new, sometimes miss keystrokes and that really annoys me. Thus, I am looking for a Cherry MX / Topre / else switch.
I got myself a MX Red, Black, Brown, Blue sampler board from maxkeyboard - the only thing I could find here in the UK. I already spent hours clicking on these and my rubber dome, but I just cannot make up my mind. Since I only have one of each Cherry MX switch, I feel it's not realistic enough for me to decide.
My rubber dome is quite heavy, with medium keystroke length I guess. The MX travel distance is longer, I tried some (unknown) o-rings which makes all 4 MX switches much better for me already.
The switch that feels best is probably the red and the blue (minus the sound). I wish the brown would give the same tactile feel as the blue does - I think they feel different and I much like the precise bump of the blue. I also feel the brown is gritty, grinding, unnatural - there is something there, but then not really. Maybe the sampler I have has a broken brown switch b/c I just would not understand from this one switch how so many people like it. :/ It feels like the brown is used / worn out although it seems new.
Anyway, I think I will go ahead and get a keyboard with MX reds or blacks, although I'd really like to try the MX clears, too. They are supposedly the most similar to rubber domes??
Also I will have a look at the "Soft-Landing Pads" if I can get them here in the UK - I am sure I would like those :)

Thanks for all the info and suggestions here!!!
k
If you'd like to try a clear PM me your address, I have a bag of stems/springs you can swap into your switch tester. I'll also send a dental band so you can try jailhouse blues :)
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: Dihedral on Sun, 08 March 2015, 09:44:12: Quote from: kaefers on Sun, 08 March 2015, 06:49:50
Hi,

first post here! I know this has not been ipdated in 3+ years, but it did help me a lot to figure out what switch I might want. ;D

I've always had (cheapo) rubber dome keyboards, mostly Dell from work that I then also used at home (to not have a change at all which is very important for my work). But I find the cheap rubber dome Dell's, even when new, sometimes miss keystrokes and that really annoys me. Thus, I am looking for a Cherry MX / Topre / else switch.
I got myself a MX Red, Black, Brown, Blue sampler board from maxkeyboard - the only thing I could find here in the UK. I already spent hours clicking on these and my rubber dome, but I just cannot make up my mind. Since I only have one of each Cherry MX switch, I feel it's not realistic enough for me to decide.
My rubber dome is quite heavy, with medium keystroke length I guess. The MX travel distance is longer, I tried some (unknown) o-rings which makes all 4 MX switches much better for me already.
The switch that feels best is probably the red and the blue (minus the sound). I wish the brown would give the same tactile feel as the blue does - I think they feel different and I much like the precise bump of the blue. I also feel the brown is gritty, grinding, unnatural - there is something there, but then not really. Maybe the sampler I have has a broken brown switch b/c I just would not understand from this one switch how so many people like it. :/ It feels like the brown is used / worn out although it seems new.
Anyway, I think I will go ahead and get a keyboard with MX reds or blacks, although I'd really like to try the MX clears, too. They are supposedly the most similar to rubber domes??
Also I will have a look at the "Soft-Landing Pads" if I can get them here in the UK - I am sure I would like those :)

Thanks for all the info and suggestions here!!!
k

Hi, in future just make a new thread instead of bumping an old one :)

Good to see suicidal_orange is helping you out, good luck in your quest
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: Hyde on Sun, 08 March 2015, 23:08:20: I don't know if you've sorted this out yet but I feel like at this point your best bet is Topre Type Heaven.

It's an upgrade to a rubber dome and won't break your wallet.

:thumb:
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: Dihedral on Mon, 09 March 2015, 02:32:01: Quote from: eth0s on Wed, 21 December 2011, 12:02:50
Hmm, well if the OP likes rubber domes, maybe don't fight it, and just go back to rubber domes. There are some real fancy rubber dome keyboards available, with all the bells and whistles (and LED's!). Logitech has a rubber domed keyboard for over $150, so that might be the answer. Mechanical keyboards are not for everyone. Not everyone will like them. Enrico Ferrari once said that he did not make cars for everyone, and that his cars are not meant to appeal to the masses. However, if the OP wants to give mechs one my try, IMHO, Cherry MX red switches are the closest your going to get in a mechanical keyboard to the feeling of a rubber dome keyboard. It won't be the same, but it will be the closest thing. And I will repeat what has been said above, the other option is for the OP to dig deep and spend $300 on a Topre. Is happiness worth $300? I would say yes, but that is just me.

You're trying to type Enzo Ferrari while thinking about Enrico Fermi? :)
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 09 March 2015, 02:43:51: @Dihedral, doubt they're going to answer you since their post is from 2011....

Out of the stock switches, Clears are the closest to rubber dome, but at the same time very different. Recommended. Especially once modded with 62g springs.

The problem you felt with the Browns is not that they're worn out, but that they're not worn in yet. The scratchiness goes away eventually with use. All new MX switches suffer from this, but it's most noticable on the tactile variants, Browns and Clears.

I believe jailhouse blues will also have a similar feel, smaller tactile bump than Clears, but it starts sooner in the stroke and the actuation point is higher, too.
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: Dihedral on Mon, 09 March 2015, 02:56:39: Ah yes, forgot this is a bumped thread. oobly, you've had ecperiance with modding switches, what percentage do you normally break or screw up on?
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: ander on Mon, 09 March 2015, 03:09:17: Quote from: bbbbqq
Count me in as a hater of mx brown. Such a small tactile bump that it'll never give you any feedback, but too much that it isn't smooth. It's my second least favorite of all, after black.

It's amazing how subjective all this is. I like Browns specifically for their mid-travel "bump", which means the switch has actuated and I needn't press it any farther.

And I really like Blacks for typing. I realize that's not a popular stance. However, their increasing resistance makes them very conducive to learning to type without bottoming out—which, IMHO, should be a goal of every MK user (except perhaps gamers who want to intimidate their opponents by smashing their keys).

Quote from: WiL11o6
Just got my black switch and I think it may be too heavy for me. It takes much more force than I thought it would... I do like the extra pressure on the blacks when I'm playing games because it makes it feel like I am in more control of the character as I can feel each key press....but typing on it isn't as easy as I would like... While I am typing this, my fingers are getting tired already and I didn't do much typing.

Are you sure you were using them the right way, though?

When I first tried Blacks—in a store with a bunch of disconnected demo boards—I thought, "Man, these are just stiffer than the rest." But as soon as I tried one connected to a PC, I totally understood. Switches aren't about how they feel as individual buttons; they're about how they actuate (produce characters) when you use them. That's why they call them "switches". :?)

Since all Cherry switches actuate about 50% through their travel, it seems obvious that the fastest, smoothest way to type is by releasing each key before you bottom out. But that's easier said than done. Because most Cherrys have such a light touch, it's hard to use them with that degree of control.

Not so with Blacks! Blacks are not only stiffer when you start pressing them, but their resistance increases slightly as you press. If you goal is to stop between 50% and 100% of the keys' travel, this is perfect, because it gives you just the right amount of resistance to work against.

You just have to use them with that in mind. Rather than focusing on your fingers, or even individual words, think of the phrases you want to type—then type each of them as a combined motion of both hands, moving your fingers as little as possible. You can even think of the motions as beginning in your upper arms and moving to your hands.

This is actually a technique concert pianists use to play as smoothly and naturally as possible, by progressively delegating the biggest arcs of movement to the bigger pivoting parts of the upper body. It's also how robots operate on assembly lines, making their biggest movements with their biggest moving segments.

Great typists think of the keyboard as a single object, which they sort of "massage" to create words. This "holistic" approach allows them to type incredibly fast without any unnecessary motion or effort. MX Blacks, IMHO, are the best tool we mere "mortal" typists can use to try to emulate that.

Well, sorry for the long discourse... I just think that if more people saw Blacks as what they were—a partner in good typing, rather than an opponent—they'd appreciate them a lot more.
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 09 March 2015, 05:17:13: Quote from: Dihedral on Mon, 09 March 2015, 02:56:39
Ah yes, forgot this is a bumped thread. oobly, you've had ecperiance with modding switches, what percentage do you normally break or screw up on?

I've bent the leaf contacts of one switch so far. All other "mistakes" have been fixable with no effect on the switch mechanism and feel, so I guess I've been pretty lucky so far (4 or 5 boards worth of modifed switches). I am quite careful when modding, though.

@ander, I agree with you about the "holistic" approach to typing and using more muscle groups to type, effecting larger movements with your upper arms and smaller with the fingers, typing in phrases rather than letters, etc. I think this can still be done without avoiding bottoming out, but it's healthiest to bottom out without force still being applied to the finger. Orings / trampolines are good for dampening the shock / creating good "rebound" for a "loose" finger. This helps to lift the finger and lead to less effort used when typing not to mention the benefits of not having a hard shock at bottom out.

All mechanical switches are okay for this, but I like to give my subconcious cues by using tactile switches, and Topre are the hardest to not have residual force with due to the way the domes collapse.

Blacks can help to learn this way of typing, but I think Ghost Blacks (Blacks with Clear springs) are even better due to the spring constant used, they're lighter than Blacks to start, but stronger after the actuation point.
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: chyros on Mon, 09 March 2015, 15:58:51: I can't really think of ANY Cherry switch that feels like a rubber dome, but the closest would be Clears I'd guess. Light tactility and kind of a squishy feeling at the bottom. The Browns you're used to are practically linear when pressed hard.
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: xrayos on Mon, 09 March 2015, 19:46:11: That's funny. I've always had cheap logitech's and apple wireless keyboards. Just got my Filco 104 Reds and was immediately underwhelmed and kept it in the box. I was a little busy though. Will check it out when I have more free time. The build quality is great though. Hopefully, I can get used to the reds. I do have a real force 87u 55g on the way.

Quote from: WiL11o6 on Thu, 15 December 2011, 22:30:11
I moved from traditional logitech cheapo keyboards to a Filco Majestouch with browns and I'm not fully satisfied. It might be too tactile? I'm not exactly sure...but I sort of like the feel of cheapo keyboards. I just want an upgrade to a mechanical keyboard that I like and I don't think browns are doing it for me.

I like the browns over rubber dome of course, but not $150 more. I want to try another switch that is worth $150 more better.
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: xrayos on Mon, 09 March 2015, 19:48:33: that's what I was looking for "squishy" feeling at the bottom. I remember the buckling IBM felt a little squishy also

Quote from: chyros on Mon, 09 March 2015, 15:58:51
I can't really think of ANY Cherry switch that feels like a rubber dome, but the closest would be Clears I'd guess. Light tactility and kind of a squishy feeling at the bottom. The Browns you're used to are practically linear when pressed hard.
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: Firebolt1914 on Mon, 09 March 2015, 20:25:31: The closest thing to rubber dome I've felt with MX is mx browns with o-rings. The bottom out that is slightly elastic makes it feel that way.
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: demik on Mon, 09 March 2015, 20:36:23: anything linear
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: jamster on Mon, 09 March 2015, 20:38:25: I've got a decent quality rubber dome (Wyse) in front of me as well as my KUL, ErgoClear modded with o-rings.

They feel pretty similar, both have a tactile collapse point. The MX doesn't feel quite the same in that it doesn't really collapse, but rather it's a fairly large bump in the switch. But they are close.

I've tried Browns, Reds and Blacks, none of which felt anything to me like rubber domes. I actually like the feel of rubber domes with the distinct collapse point and reduction in resistence. Linear switches feel to me nothing at all like rubber dome. Only the very pronouced bump of Clears/Greys come anything close, and both have too much spring resistance as stock to feel like rubber dome in the second part of the travel.

To me MX is kind of a compromise- I get a better built keyboard, but the actual switch travel characteristics are not all that great feeling. My next keyboard purchase is likely to be Topre I spent so much modding the KUL that I should have just gone that route in the first place.

Bugger. Just realised I was replying to a question asked three years ago.
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: xrayos on Mon, 09 March 2015, 21:06:00: well, I'm typing on the filch mx reds right now. It seems ok and it's very light. great for typing as it's pretty easy. I think I may keep this keyboard just for typing purposes. As you can probably tell, I'm just typing to type in this reply. I may have to find osx keycaps to use with my iMac.

any ideas where to get them?

thanks
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 10 March 2015, 06:36:38: Quote from: xrayos on Mon, 09 March 2015, 21:06:00
well, I'm typing on the filch mx reds right now. It seems ok and it's very light. great for typing as it's pretty easy. I think I may keep this keyboard just for typing purposes. As you can probably tell, I'm just typing to type in this reply. I may have to find osx keycaps to use with my iMac.

any ideas where to get them?

thanks

Buy this base set and the Mac kit: http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/1976/

Just 2 days left :)
Title: Re: Which MX switch is most like rubber domes?
Post by: xrayos on Tue, 10 March 2015, 07:54:37: ^ thanks. I think I found what I was looking for with WASD. I can get custom keycaps for the modifiers PLUS the F-keys for brightness and volume control.