[IC] G20 Semiotic (Currently available from PMK)

[derezzed]

Here are the first keycap samples derived from the graphics I sent to SP.

(Attachment Link)

I am exploring the feasibility of enlarging the symbols about 10%, but if doing so presents problems then what you see in that photo is what they will look like. I'm pleased to see that they look exactly as I envisioned them, pretty much right off the bat.

I think the legend on the "radioactive" key needs to be rotated 180 degrees. 

It looks like the flat surface of a 1u G20 key cap is about 12mm square.  A 10% increase might be too much.  Given SP's tolerances, even a 5% increase might not be feasible.  It's difficult to be certain, with only a photo for reference.  But if you can make it work, awesome.

[zslane]

They may not have been diligent about how the sloped side was oriented when printing off these prototypes. However, I will be very strict about this and will make sure they get it right in the end.

[derezzed]

I was being a smartdumb-ass about the legend.  It's hard to tell from the angle of the photo if the legends are oriented correctly, but if that 1 legend is rotated 180 degrees, it will look the same as it does now.  The colors look really good on the samples.  It's difficult to tell from the photo but it appears that the texture of the caps gives the legends a style that suggests the original hand-drawn designs by Ron Cobb.  For me, this brings up a host of associations with sci-fi art from the 80s, specifically the art in Heavy Metal magazine.  If the legends appear that way on the actual keys (and not just in the image), that makes them just as appealing to me, if not more so, than the legends as they appear in the renders.  Either way, this design wins on so many levels.

[pixelpusher]

Far better than I thought, I just hope the large keys do not get warped as the Granites did.

Do you mean the bow tie effect where it curves in at the middle on the top an bottom edges?  I have 3 sets of PBT caps from SP and they all have that warp to some extent.  Sometimes it's very slight, so let's hope for the best.  It looks like the shift modifier has a bit of curve to it, but certainly nothing deal breaking. 

[zslane]

I asked Melissa about the texture of G20 keycaps, since I had never used them before, and this is what she said:

G20's are slightly less textured than our DSA keys, but definitely have more texture than SA.

[ideus]

Far better than I thought, I just hope the large keys do not get warped as the Granites did.

Do you mean the bow tie effect where it curves in at the middle on the top an bottom edges?  I have 3 sets of PBT caps from SP and they all have that warp to some extent.  Sometimes it's very slight, so let's hope for the best.  It looks like the shift modifier has a bit of curve to it, but certainly nothing deal breaking.

Yes, that is what I referred to. That was the main reason I let my Granite sets to go; while, a single isolated key does not look that bad, when you put them in a board the opposite bending effects of two adjacent keys make the gaps between rows to look sinusoidal, they look just too ugly to be ignored. Well, that is just me, I suppose most people do not care about it, but I prefer the perfectly straight gaps of my OG Cherry set. I know, I am just too picky, but who is not picky with a set the cost over one hundred dollars.

[zslane]

You have every right to be picky, in any way that suits you, ideus. No hard feelings here.

I am too picky in that I refuse to type on cylindrical keycaps, no matter how well made they are. I'm almost neurotic about it. We're all weird in our own way, I suppose.

[jebbra]

Samples looks very very good. This will be my 1st G20

[ndlu2]

I have a set of g20 keycaps and there is a little bit of warping on the keys

[JaccoW]

Here are the first keycap samples derived from the graphics I sent to SP.

Show Image

I am exploring the feasibility of enlarging the symbols about 10%, but if doing so presents problems then what you see in that photo is what they will look like. I'm pleased to see that they look exactly as I envisioned them, pretty much right off the bat.

That looks amazing.  :eek:

[pomk]

I must have this! 

[dsaf]

So, will the plastic be translucent like in the movie?

[infodroid]

Are there any options for finish like glossy, semi-matte, matte?

[zslane]

So, will the plastic be translucent like in the movie?

Show Image

(No, G20 keycaps are not translucent.)

[zslane]

Are there any options for finish like glossy, semi-matte, matte?

I suspect not. I believe G20 has only one finish option, which is somewhere between SA and DSA in terms of texture.

[pixelpusher]

So, will the plastic be translucent like in the movie?

Show Image

White PBT will probably have a bit of shine through at max brightness, but no, these are not translucent caps

[PollandAkuma]

Oh god, this well be great!

A question, does it include 2 1.5 keys anywhere? I'd like to use it with my (future) atreus... And how much will the kits be?

[zslane]

Oh god, this well be great!

A question, does it include 2 1.5 keys anywhere? I'd like to use it with my (future) atreus... And how much will the kits be?

For 1.5u keys there are the following:

• 1.5u x 2 in MODS kit (intended for Tab and |\ key positions on an ANSI layout).
• 1.5u x5 in EXTRAS kit. One of them is the "Backspace" graphic from the MODS kit, but in 1.5u form. The other four duplicate the graphics of the bottom row modifiers (intended for Winkeyless layouts).
• 1.5u x 12 in ERGODOX kit. Three of them duplicate graphics from the MODS kit, but in 1.5u form. Four of them duplicate the bottom row modifiers, as in the EXTRAS kit. The remaining five are unique graphics and only appear in the ERGODOX kit.

I think you'll be able to find enough keycaps to cover all your bases, especially if you splurge for the ERGODOX kit and raid it for 1.5u and 2u keycaps.

I have no idea what kit pricing will be like. I guess we'll all find out together once the set appears on PMK's webstore.

[PollandAkuma]

Oh god, this well be great!

A question, does it include 2 1.5 keys anywhere? I'd like to use it with my (future) atreus... And how much will the kits be?

For 1.5u keys there are the following:

• 1.5u x 2 in MODS kit (intended for Tab and |\ key positions on an ANSI layout).
• 1.5u x5 in EXTRAS kit. One of them is the "Backspace" graphic from the MODS kit, but in 1.5u form. The other four duplicate the graphics of the bottom row modifiers (intended for Winkeyless layouts).
• 1.5u x 12 in ERGODOX kit. Three of them duplicate graphics from the MODS kit, but in 1.5u form. Four of them duplicate the bottom row modifiers, as in the EXTRAS kit. The remaining five are unique graphics and only appear in the ERGODOX kit.

I think you'll be able to find enough keycaps to cover all your bases, especially if you splurge for the ERGODOX kit and raid it for 1.5u and 2u keycaps.

I have no idea what kit pricing will be like. I guess we'll all find out together once the set appears on PMK's webstore.

Wow, cool! This'll be so rad... time to sell my kidneys lmao

[zslane]

Apart from maybe some Atomic layouts which need, like, 80+ unique 1u keycaps, this set will cover pretty much any keyboard out there. Sure, some really strange layouts might require you to buy an odd blank or two separately from SP (like if someone needs a third 2.75u keycap or something), but I like the idea that I can buy one set, and with its 150 keycaps cover anything I am ever likely to type on.

[mogo]

HUGE CONGRATS ZSLANE! I'm so excited to see real prototypes!

[zslane]

Thanks, mogo!

I hope they meet everyone's expectations. 

If I remember correctly, someone here let the reddit folks know about this, right? I want to make sure they don't miss out on it when it eventually goes up on PMK's webstore.

I put the word out on DT yesterday, and so far, only crickets. #weird

[Niomosy]

Thanks, mogo!

I hope they meet everyone's expectations. 

If I remember correctly, someone here let the reddit folks know about this, right? I want to make sure they don't miss out on it when it eventually goes up on PMK's webstore.

I put the word out on DT yesterday, and so far, only crickets. #weird

Looks like a Reddit thread went up ~10 days back or so.  Another will likely be needed once the buy goes live for those actually purchasing given the way Reddit's thread system works.

[ideus]

You have every right to be picky, in any way that suits you, ideus. No hard feelings here.

I am too picky in that I refuse to type on cylindrical keycaps, no matter how well made they are. I'm almost neurotic about it. We're all weird in our own way, I suppose.

I tried very hard to like the Granite set, I bought a couple of sets, also I bought most of the small kits; however, I was always a bit frustrated by seeing at those irregular gaps between the large keys. I used them for over a year, but again, I just cannot tolerate them. If that is to be picky, well, I suppose I am. I touch type, so I do not need to see at my keys to type, but I really like to stare at the keyboard from time to time, and those gaps were just too obvious to tolerate. I just hope this nice design and the type of keycaps do not get warped at the dye sub process.

[iFreilicht]

Apart from maybe some Atomic layouts which need, like, 80+ unique 1u keycaps, this set will cover pretty much any keyboard out there. Sure, some really strange layouts might require you to buy an odd blank or two separately from SP (like if someone needs a third 2.75u keycap or something), but I like the idea that I can buy one set, and with its 150 keycaps cover anything I am ever likely to type on.

That's actually exactly what I intend to use it for. Full-Grid Atomic has 75 1u keys, so you only need Symbols+Topstripe to deck it out completely. I'll probably add Numpad to that if I can afford it.

If I remember correctly, someone here let the reddit folks know about this, right? I want to make sure they don't miss out on it when it eventually goes up on PMK's webstore.

That was me I'll cartainly post there again once it's on PMK.

[pixelpusher]

I've added this one to my bookmarks.  One of these days I might not get a 404

http://pimpmykeyboard.com/g20-semiotic-keycap-set/

[zslane]

The set is still going through the prototype stage. I haven't yet settled on a size for the graphics I am ready to approve as final. SP makes a sample, emails me a photo, and then I ask for a different size, etc. Currently I have only seen the first sample (the same one I posted earlier). I await the next size iteration from them.

Once we have decided on the final size of all the graphics, SP has to make a full set and send it to me so I can make sure that the graphics on every key are positioned properly and don't have any color issues. If there are any problems, then fixes must be implemented (either in my graphics files or in their dyesub settings), and we try again. When I get a complete set that I am happy with, then SP can put it up for sale.

This sort of thing is (typically) a time-consuming, iterative process. Let's also not forget that G20 Semiotic is not the only keyset SP is working on right now; we only get a modest slice of their available time.

With the Christmas holidays approaching, I expect G20 Semiotic to be ready no sooner than January.

[pixelpusher]

Thanks for the update!  Still excited to see it finished.

[derezzed]

I have a feeling that 2017 is going to be a year of hardship for the budget-minded keyboard enthusiast and for those who lack patience.  So many good sets are in the pipeline and the production backlog seems to keep growing. 

[pixelpusher]

(Attachment Link)

I have a feeling that 2017 is going to be a year of hardship for the budget-minded keyboard enthusiast and for those who lack patience.  So many good sets are in the pipeline and the production backlog seems to keep growing.

I've already blown a grand on boards and keys this year, don't tell me next year will be worse...

[zslane]

G20 Semiotic ErgoDox:

[pixelpusher]

G20 Semiotic ErgoDox:

(Attachment Link)

Fantastic.  I've never even considered an ergodox build, but man, that's amazing.

[derezzed]

G20 Semiotic ErgoDox:

(Attachment Link)

That looks amazing.  I feel like I would have to wear a uniform to use that keyboard.

[iFreilicht]

G20 Semiotic ErgoDox:

(Attachment Link)

So damn nice. I posted that pic to reddit for exposure

[dante]

So many good sets are in the pipeline and the production backlog seems to keep growing. 

It will be interesting to see what the breaking point is at Signature Plastics.  Will they add capacity when earliest delivery is 12/18/24 months away?

[elfick]

G20 Semiotic ErgoDox:

(Attachment Link)

Fantastic.  I've never even considered an ergodox build, but man, that's amazing.

Agreed. It's like the ergodox was designed to wear G20 Semiotic.

[MustacheRabbit]

I just wanting to chime in and say that I am eagerly awaiting this to be available. Thank you for taking enough care in this project to prototype as you have been. That creates great confidence in my mind that this set will not require the amount of headache on my behalf when compared to things like Danger Zone (where I still don't have all the corrected keys).

The only question pending in my mind is: "How many keyboards do I want to sport this set?"

[dante]

Will any of the keys have homing nubs on them?

Will SP provide replacements if the larger keys are warped?

[e_l_tang]

Is a new vertical 1.5u keycap shape going to be made for the ErgoDox kit? That's the only one that's needed to enable G20 to cover all the keyboards supported by this set with properly-shaped keycaps.

[iFreilicht]

Will any of the keys have homing nubs on them?

Yes, these two, mentioned here.

[elfick]

Will any of the keys have homing nubs on them?

Yes, these two, mentioned here.

Show Image

Needs nipples instead of bars to both make it multi-directional and complete the "boob".  :p

[zslane]

Is a new vertical 1.5u keycap shape going to be made for the ErgoDox kit? That's the only one that's needed to enable G20 to cover all the keyboards supported by this set with properly-shaped keycaps.

You bring up an interesting issue.

I just assumed that the vertical 2u keys (in the numpad, for instance) were normal 2u keys rotated 90 degrees, but you're saying they are special 2u molds? If so, then as far as I know, the 1.5u vertical keys (for the ErgoDox kit) won't have the same sort of dedicated vertical mold. They will be horizontal 1.5u keys that you'll have to rotate to put into place.

But this means I have to speak to Melissa and make sure that the vertical 2u keys use the vertical 2u mold!

[dante]

But this means I have to speak to Melissa and make sure that the vertical 2u keys use the vertical 2u mold!

Please also ask her about a warping warranty.

[e_l_tang]

Is a new vertical 1.5u keycap shape going to be made for the ErgoDox kit? That's the only one that's needed to enable G20 to cover all the keyboards supported by this set with properly-shaped keycaps.

You bring up an interesting issue.

I just assumed that the vertical 2u keys (in the numpad, for instance) were normal 2u keys rotated 90 degrees, but you're saying they are special 2u molds? If so, then as far as I know, the 1.5u vertical keys (for the ErgoDox kit) won't have the same sort of dedicated vertical mold. They will be horizontal 1.5u keys that you'll have to rotate to put into place.

But this means I have to speak to Melissa and make sure that the vertical 2u keys use the vertical 2u mold!

Yes, definitely make sure that the thumb keycaps are made in the vertical 2u shape. However, please ask about making a new vertical 1.5u shape as well. All the keycaps in all the kits of Semiotic will have proper shapes if you do, and it would be good to make sure that Melissa at least knows about the need for them.

[zslane]

I can tell you right now that SP will not spend money on new molds just for this set. In fact, I wouldn't expect them to be making new G20 molds for some time to come. There simply isn't the demand for them. And even if there was, I'm sure that a 7u spacebar mold and an ISO return key mold would come long before a vertical 1.5u mold.

[e_l_tang]

I can tell you right now that SP will not spend money on new molds just for this set. In fact, I wouldn't expect them to be making new G20 molds for some time to come. There simply isn't the demand for them. And even if there was, I'm sure that a 7u spacebar mold and an ISO return key mold would come long before a vertical 1.5u mold.

You're probably right, but that doesn't stop you from bringing it up. There's no harm in letting them know that it's something the community would prefer to have.

[dante]

I can tell you right now that SP will not spend money on new molds just for this set. In fact, I wouldn't expect them to be making new G20 molds for some time to come. There simply isn't the demand for them. And even if there was, I'm sure that a 7u spacebar mold and an ISO return key mold would come long before a vertical 1.5u mold.

You're probably right, but that doesn't stop you from bringing it up. There's no harm in letting them know that it's something the community would prefer to have.

Signature Plastics doesn't really need to do anything right now.  They're quite literally printing money with the molds they already have.

[e_l_tang]

I can tell you right now that SP will not spend money on new molds just for this set. In fact, I wouldn't expect them to be making new G20 molds for some time to come. There simply isn't the demand for them. And even if there was, I'm sure that a 7u spacebar mold and an ISO return key mold would come long before a vertical 1.5u mold.

You're probably right, but that doesn't stop you from bringing it up. There's no harm in letting them know that it's something the community would prefer to have.

Signature Plastics doesn't really need to do anything right now.  They're quite literally printing money with the molds they already have.

That may very well be the way SP sees it, but just one look at this thread will show you just how much the community appreciates proper keycap shapes.

[zslane]

Well, sure, but that's because 99.9% of keyboards need those Shift keys, and so the hew and cry over the lack of R4 molds was understandably deafening, so to speak. The hew and cry over the lack of ISO return and vertical 1.5u keycaps for G20 is so faint as to be nearly imperceptible by comparison. It is little wonder that SP doesn't make either much of a priority.

[e_l_tang]

Well, sure, but that's because 99.9% of keyboards need those Shift keys, and so the hew and cry over the lack of R4 molds was understandably deafening, so to speak. The hew and cry over the lack of ISO return and vertical 1.5u keycaps for G20 is so faint as to be nearly imperceptible by comparison. It is little wonder that SP doesn't make either much of a priority.

The problem is that SP probably doesn't even know that G20 is missing a vertical 1.5u shape, which is not the case with the others you mentioned. You, as the designer of the first custom G20 set, are in a perfect position to change that.