Author Topic: [IC] Type K - Tented Ergo keyboard (10/08/2023 - GB STARTING ON AUGUST 20TH)  (Read 499843 times)

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Offline gaiden

  • Posts: 343
RIP no split left shift

Did you not bothered scrolling down to layout image?  :))

All the photos has default no-split spacebars for look. It does support split, in fact both side.  :thumb:

Offline geohammy

  • Posts: 63
 :cool: only keyboard ever released worth $800 IMO. seeing the work put into this over the years has been amazing. can't believe it's finally here!
Unagi, Bias, Dolphin, XTAL

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Offline noahf

  • Posts: 113
RIP no split left shift

Did you not bothered scrolling down to layout image?  :))

All the photos has default no-split spacebars for look. It does support split, in fact both side.  :thumb:

Split left shift. Not space

Offline gaiden

  • Posts: 343
RIP no split left shift

Did you not bothered scrolling down to layout image?  :))

All the photos has default no-split spacebars for look. It does support split, in fact both side.  :thumb:

Split left shift. Not space

Oh my bad.

Offline involuntarysoul

  • Posts: 189
never typed on a ergo board, prob not smart throwing $1k at this right?

Offline monstermandude

  • Posts: 20
  • Location: EU
never typed on a ergo board, prob not smart throwing $1k at this right?

I mean it's still the same qwerty layout but just more ergonomically spread out. The only difference would be whether it is comfortable for you or not and I would think getting used to typing on it would be a lot easier than say an ortholinear with thumb clusters. Price wise yeah maybe not the best to do for your first ergo keyboard lol but very few tented alice keyboards out there right now.

Offline vixixtryx

  • Posts: 10
Big update to main post.

Any chance you would consider extending the GB window to 4 weeks? Seems like a pretty quick turnaround from pricing being announced today and the GB running it would probably not result in as many people being able to participate.

Offline vhaarr

  • Posts: 331
  • Location: Norway
Big update to main post.

Any chance you would consider extending the GB window to 4 weeks? Seems like a pretty quick turnaround from pricing being announced today and the GB running it would probably not result in as many people being able to participate.

I agree. Also, although it is not a problem for me for this GB, in general GBs should really be extended to 5 weeks to cover 2 paycheck periods. Most of the western world is paid monthly. I expect that would make it much easier to accomodate such an extra expense.
Let the Holy Handgrenades rain.
Hammering on an old Happy Hacking Pro 2. Still going strong!

Offline onmybikedrunk

  • Posts: 236
  • Location: Portland, OR
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So stoked… you can add me onto the list that could use a little extra time to get the funds together… I’ll make a way regardless though.

Offline santela

  • Posts: 227
OMG this is actually unlimited GB. This whole time I was worried I would never be able to snatch one, thank you gok! I can finally get my grail and move on to other hobbies after 3 years!

Offline gaiden

  • Posts: 343
Anyone know if soldered & hot swap PCB both have the same exact layouts? Only saw 1 layout image but 2 styles of PCB.

Offline Gondolindrim

  • Posts: 688
  • Location: Gondolin
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Anyone know if soldered & hot swap PCB both have the same exact layouts? Only saw 1 layout image but 2 styles of PCB.

Yes, the hotswap PCB supports all layouts with the caveat some options are north facing to accomodate the sockets.
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline typischt

  • Posts: 290
Big update to main post.

Any chance you would consider extending the GB window to 4 weeks? Seems like a pretty quick turnaround from pricing being announced today and the GB running it would probably not result in as many people being able to participate.

I agree. Also, although it is not a problem for me for this GB, in general GBs should really be extended to 5 weeks to cover 2 paycheck periods. Most of the western world is paid monthly. I expect that would make it much easier to accomodate such an extra expense.
The question might be: Should you really buy a keyboard for 750USD+ if you need 2 month to gather the funds for it? ;)

Offline gaiden

  • Posts: 343
Anyone know if soldered & hot swap PCB both have the same exact layouts? Only saw 1 layout image but 2 styles of PCB.

Yes, the hotswap PCB supports all layouts with the caveat some options are north facing to accomodate the sockets.

Nice to know. Usually I see hot swap support less layout options so this is good if only a few LEDs are turned. 👍

Offline gok_nz

  • Thread Starter
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Anyone know if soldered & hot swap PCB both have the same exact layouts? Only saw 1 layout image but 2 styles of PCB.

Yes, the hotswap PCB supports all layouts with the caveat some options are north facing to accomodate the sockets.
Another caveat is that I think it sounds worse than soldered because the hotswap sockets bottom out. This issue can be mitigated by the foam to some extent.

Offline gaiden

  • Posts: 343
Anyone know if soldered & hot swap PCB both have the same exact layouts? Only saw 1 layout image but 2 styles of PCB.

Yes, the hotswap PCB supports all layouts with the caveat some options are north facing to accomodate the sockets.
Another caveat is that I think it sounds worse than soldered because the hotswap sockets bottom out. This issue can be mitigated by the foam to some extent.
good point, would adding foam obstruct any RGB lighting?

Offline nettik

  • Posts: 44
  • Location: HI
Also, can you add mill-max sockets to the solder-only pcb if you wanted to? I once bought a regular pcb in a different group buy and tried to hotswap it, but the sockets wouldn't fit.

Offline gok_nz

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Also, can you add mill-max sockets to the solder-only pcb if you wanted to? I once bought a regular pcb in a different group buy and tried to hotswap it, but the sockets wouldn't fit.
Millmax fits fine. I millmaxed a couple of the proto pcbs.

Offline SDKCAMPING

  • Posts: 183
I saw the typing test today and it sounded good but a little hollow. Still will buy since it's so unique and good looking
Blue Gray Ciel 60 with BCPs | E-white 7V (plateless) with Aqua Kings

Offline lkkedward

  • Posts: 13
would like to see if the GB period can be extended longer.
There're so many good boards recently and I think most people's wallet would need some breathing time like me.

Offline codecoffeecode

  • Posts: 42
Seriously guys, if single paycheck or two makes or breaks whether or not someone can "afford" this board, they can't afford this board. And I know that sounds elitist but there's no reason to try to accommodate people trying to make poor financial decisions: either they have the disposable income or they don't. Given the length of time this board has been in IC, there has been more than enough time for folks to save money if they needed to.

Offline lush_bunny

  • Posts: 797
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Seriously guys, if single paycheck or two makes or breaks whether or not someone can "afford" this board, they can't afford this board. And I know that sounds elitist but there's no reason to try to accommodate people trying to make poor financial decisions: either they have the disposable income or they don't. Given the length of time this board has been in IC, there has been more than enough time for folks to save money if they needed to.

Solid advice. I had ample time to save up for a 7V back in the day, and I think the Type K IC has run on long enough for people who really REALLY want it to save up for it.

Offline monstermandude

  • Posts: 20
  • Location: EU
Seriously guys, if single paycheck or two makes or breaks whether or not someone can "afford" this board, they can't afford this board. And I know that sounds elitist but there's no reason to try to accommodate people trying to make poor financial decisions: either they have the disposable income or they don't. Given the length of time this board has been in IC, there has been more than enough time for folks to save money if they needed to.

Solid advice. I had ample time to save up for a 7V back in the day, and I think the Type K IC has run on long enough for people who really REALLY want it to save up for it.

There's also always pay in 4 methods if your paycheck is just a few days out of reach of the group buy and you have enough for the first payment. I've done that on a few occasions when it comes to super limited runs and stuff but shouldn't be done super often either IMO.

Offline badsport

  • Posts: 2
Seriously guys, if single paycheck or two makes or breaks whether or not someone can "afford" this board, they can't afford this board. And I know that sounds elitist but there's no reason to try to accommodate people trying to make poor financial decisions: either they have the disposable income or they don't. Given the length of time this board has been in IC, there has been more than enough time for folks to save money if they needed to.

The fact that this even needs to be said is depressing. The amount of people in this hobby without any financial literacy and succumb to hype/FOMO is way too high. Let's take Jay-Z's advice here - "if you can't buy it twice, you can't afford it."

For everyone else, enjoy this amazing board.

Offline evidentLEE

  • Posts: 66
Been looking for an Ergo board for a while now. Beyond stoked for this! Incredible design as usual Gok.
Give a man a gun, he'll rob a bank. Give a man a bank, he'll rob the world.

Offline ee

  • Posts: 64
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  • hi
what's the apr on a keyboard these days?

Offline Rhienfo

  • Posts: 595
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
  • Why is everything I want here so expensive :(
Yeah I think it goes without saying that if it means you have to delay paying rent or having no food for the month then don't get the nice keyboard. I understand you want it but financial stability will bring you more joy. Please read this if you haven't it's not too related to this but It's an important lesson that some people in this hobby need to learn - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67980.0

Great project gok, glad to see it finally reach group buy and GL with the sale.
fjell | hhkb bt

Offline newcscsl

  • Posts: 3
Type K or Mountain Ergo https://kbdfans.com/products/ic-kbdfans-mountain-ergo-keyboard-kit ?

This is a hypothetical question since ME is obviously discontinued already. But the designs are very similar.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 August 2023, 17:12:07 by newcscsl »

Offline KingOfMemes

  • Posts: 845
  • Location: Murica, the best country in the world
Type K or Mountain Ergo https://kbdfans.com/products/ic-kbdfans-mountain-ergo-keyboard-kit ?

This is a hypothetical question since ME is obviously discontinued already. But the designs are very similar.
100% Type-K, no contest

Offline quazikun

  • Posts: 37
Type K or Mountain Ergo https://kbdfans.com/products/ic-kbdfans-mountain-ergo-keyboard-kit ?

This is a hypothetical question since ME is obviously discontinued already. But the designs are very similar.
100% Type-K, no contest

agree, easily

Offline newcscsl

  • Posts: 3
I'm relatively new to the hobby and my newbie taste cannot appreciate the subtleties of what makes Type-K better. Please enlighten ;D . However I do know gok made the V7 which is highly sought after.

Offline quazikun

  • Posts: 37
I'm relatively new to the hobby and my newbie taste cannot appreciate the subtleties of what makes Type-K better. Please enlighten ;D . However I do know gok made the V7 which is highly sought after.

preference :thumb: (for me at least). i also like the tented look.

Offline v2x

  • Posts: 3
never typed on a ergo board, prob not smart throwing $1k at this right?
As long as you touch type, I don't think you'll struggle. Whether the layout will be comfortable for you is another question but I find tented designs very intuitive to pick up.

Offline RexKorp

  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Sweden
gok, is it possible to offer extras of the internal sticker? I kind of want one dead center on the back (either on the PC or weight).
Also, in one of markerchun's photos, it looks like the sticker is black and silver. I assume the image was just edited, right? Otherwise, I'm gonna need one of those :D

Offline tactilesbad

  • Posts: 218
never typed on a ergo board, prob not smart throwing $1k at this right?

make sure you watch taeha's build stream, it sounds hollow af and needs force break mod like much cheaper boards. I am appalled at how 7 rounds of prototyping amounted to that

Offline Patty

  • Posts: 41
  • Location: a cat sanctuary
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sounded pretty solid on lulzthax stream, taeha's build probably wasn't the best combo to bring out the board's best attributes

imo another great addition to Gok's lineup, the several prototyping rounds were worth the effort

Offline involuntarysoul

  • Posts: 189
sounded pretty solid on lulzthax stream, taeha's build probably wasn't the best combo to bring out the board's best attributes

lol what? if the board sound trash with mx black, it will sound trash with everything else

Offline hkhawk

  • Posts: 216
sounded pretty solid on lulzthax stream, taeha's build probably wasn't the best combo to bring out the board's best attributes

lol what? if the board sound trash with mx black, it will sound trash with everything else

Nathan built with Nixies and mentioned during the stream that he wished he would have built with Blacks instead because he thought that would have sounded good

Offline touch

  • Posts: 28
RIP no split left shift

It's unfortunate (and painful personally) but we tried. I think Gok said he decided not to include split left shift due to no iso enter (which I'm fine with as you don't lose any key in terms of number)

Offline Narcolepsy

  • Posts: 19
sounded pretty solid on lulzthax stream, taeha's build probably wasn't the best combo to bring out the board's best attributes

lol what? if the board sound trash with mx black, it will sound trash with everything else

The switches played a part, but I think it was the half plate that was the issue. All the sound tests I've heard with full plates sounded just fine or great.

Offline Adelscott

  • Posts: 306
  • Location: ISANSI-FR
RIP no split left shift

It's unfortunate (and painful personally) but we tried. I think Gok said he decided not to include split left shift due to no iso enter (which I'm fine with as you don't lose any key in terms of number)
Justification OP gave here is  "already used the 1.25 shift on the right".  Meh...
Please think about ISO users, add a split left shift to your "alice style" keyboards

Offline hottrout

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If ordering from UK, should I use Oblotsky or TypePlus?
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Offline vhaarr

  • Posts: 331
  • Location: Norway
If ordering from UK, should I use Oblotsky or TypePlus?

Whenever I'm in doubt I make an order at both sites and bring it all the way to checkout so I can see the shipping (carrier companies differ in their expertise and practices) options and whether or not they add the VAT at the checkout as an addition to shipping cost (which I prefer, so I don't have to deal with import duties.)

I've used oblotzky several times, and we're not in the EU either.
Let the Holy Handgrenades rain.
Hammering on an old Happy Hacking Pro 2. Still going strong!

Offline demond_25

  • Posts: 2
I saw the typing test today and it sounded good but a little hollow. Still will buy since it's so unique and good looking

I think some hollowness in the board is nice actually. I usually go without foams at all or all foams but without case foam. It's very satisfying to hear the reverb mechanically from the material of the board and I think this is the point that makes each board is unique to its own rather than just sounding foamy. Regardless, a hobby is still an individual's preference and I know I'm the odd one in this hobby. :p

Offline Gondolindrim

  • Posts: 688
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This is beige with DCS9009 and OG Tangerines



A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Rhienfo

  • Posts: 595
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
  • Why is everything I want here so expensive :(
This is beige with DCS9009 and OG Tangerines

what a nice build gondo :)
fjell | hhkb bt

Offline gramiccus

  • Posts: 1
Type K or Mountain Ergo https://kbdfans.com/products/ic-kbdfans-mountain-ergo-keyboard-kit ?

This is a hypothetical question since ME is obviously discontinued already. But the designs are very similar.

Not sure what the other posters are basing their responses on, as they didn't elaborate on why they like the Type K over the Mountain Ergo, but I own 2 Mountain Ergo's.  Here's how I'm currently weighing the 2 options:

TL;DR - Imo, without a Type K proto on hand to compare in-person with:  Gok is a proven designer, has put a lot of thought into the Type K (TK), and there are more customization options available than there were for the Mountain Ergo (ME).  It's a beautiful board.  However, there are some compromises made in the design that make it  impractical, especially considering it costs double (or more) what the Mountain Ergo did.  Aesthetics and layout are subjective, and the only objective improvement is the customization available.  I'm torn on whether its worth the pricetag.


Design & layout
This is subjective, of course, but there are a number of things we can look at.  They are two completely different styles - the Type K is modelled after the 7V and has more of a high-tech feel, with the LED bar, PC bottom, and exposed back weight.  The Mountain is very angular and simple.  I will say that due the sloped sides, the Mountain's are somewhat difficult to pick up with one hand, not sure how the TK'd fare there.  Thematically, I'd say the angles fit the "mountain" theme.  FWIW, I like the design of the ME, but it's not anything mind-blowing.  The TK definitely has a more thoughtful design - though I can't say it's to my preferences.  The indicator lights on the top are a nice touch.  I like the overall aesthetic, but there are a couple of things that I don't like: the spacebars and the right mods.

The TK doesn't follow the typical 2u+2.25u or 2.25u+2.75u split spacebar layout.  A lot of keycap base kits are coming with a set of 1x 2u+2.25u+2.75u spacebars, which is great for split spacebar users, but means that you will now generally have to buy an additional child kit to outfit the TK vs. the ME, and buying 2nd hand sets will be much harder down the road.  I feel that base kits far outsell any child kits (extension/spacebars) in general, and that they are much harder to get extras of or find on the second hand market for sets that have already run.  I get that gok was going for elements of symmetry in this board, but I don't think that the compromise was worth it for that alone.  That said, a larger spacebar generally has a fuller sound, though I'm not sure a .25u size difference make that much of a difference.  More on sound later.

Ok, the right mods.  This is purely preference, but I really dislike the look of the right shift not lining up with the enter key, or extending beyond it.  I also get that the single 1.5u mod below that is supposed to emulate the WKL look, but the fact that it's inset even further also looks weird.  For me, a board that is focussed on symmetry, having the right side "retract" while the left side follows the traditonal alice "pyramid" layout looks really strange.  I'd prefer if the right shift was a full 2.75u size, with a 1.75u + 1u option, with either 2 x 1.5u or 1.25u mod keys below that, either in line or extended slightly beyond the right shift.  Again, this is also much better for keycap compatibility as 1.25u shifts are not as common as 1.75u ones.

I do like the TKs left-hand macro column though - I find that there aren't enough keys on the ME to show off novelties or artisans.


Sound
The ME only comes in alu top mount, love it or hate it.  It has a very crisp and even sound, and the alphas are very satisfying to hammer away on.  Mods sounds great, spacebars sound pretty good for an Alice layout.  I tend to prefer clackier builds these days, and both of my boards err on that side.  One is built with WS Onions and ePBT caps, while the other one is Cannoncaps CXA WoB (MTNU Susu can't come fast enough!)  on Azure Dragons.  I run them both with case foam, and no plate foam, as I do find the ME has a bit of case resonance without it, but only around the spacebars.  They have a nice open, clean sound.  Pretty standard for a well-implemented top mount alu plate.

With the soundtests I've heard for the TK, I have... mixed feelings.  I think Makerchun's build with the PC plate sounds the best.  It eliminates that resonance that everyone has been talking about here.  Again, I can't say for sure since I don't have a Type K, but to me it sounds more resonant / hollow than my ME's do with no foam.  I get that you get to hear some of the sound signature of a board with a bit more resonance, but it does seem to be a bit over the top for a keyboard of this class, with a PC bottom and SS weight.  Using a PC plate, even if it doesn't cost extra (though I have a feeling it might), might also make it sound to plasticy.  For the price, this seems like a bit of a risk.  I will say that the spacebars do sound better to my ear on the TK on Makerchun's PC config.  I have a weird issue with the ME where the cuts in the right plate around the spacebar make the switch ever so slightly loose, and only on the one built with Azure Dragons, and since its hotswap there's nothing holding the switch in place. This makes the right space a little less satisfying that it should be.  This doesn't appear to be the case with the TKs plates, as they are 1.5mm think and pretty solid, whereas the ME's plates are quite thin and have more matierial cut away.


Typing feel
The ME is fairly stiff, as is expected with no flex-cuts, and alu top mount.  I have no complaints here, though I wish there was a PC plate available just to see if it would have some forgiveness to it, given that it's a keyboard focussed on ergonomics.  I find that sometimes I get some fatigue in my fingers when I get going on the Azure Dragon build, though I think that's a personal issue.  They are very tactile switches, have a long-pole stem, and I am a fairly heavy typist.  I really enjoy hammering on heavy tactile switches.  I never have this issue on the linear ME, as I tend not to type as heavy on linears.

I can't really comment on the TK, but from the videos it still looks somewhat stiff.  But given that it's grommet mount and that there is a PC plate option, I think it's safe to assume that the TK will have a softer typing feel over the ME.


Finish/quality
I have both the e-white and ano black ME's.  They are both smooth, even, and flawless, inside and out.  The quality is top notch.  The machining is also excellent, there are no scuffs, marks, or uneven lines, even on the tiny bevelled top edge, or on the plate lines cut out.  I have nothing negative to say about the finish of my ME's, other than that my dumbass has put a couple tiny nicks into them when swapping them around.

Given gok's track record, I assume the TK will be the same, if not better.  I will say that part of why I am drawn to the TK is the finishes - e-white and ano black are a bit basic.  I'm really jealous that KBDFan's other ergo board, the Kunlun, came in all kinds of options, though those boards are too wide for me to consider purchasing one.  The TK has 3 more interesting options, which is a plus in my book, and after all, a big part of keyboards is the looks and customization.


Other features
As I've mentioned, the ME was fairly limited in the options available.  Its base configuration is good, but beyond foams and other standard modding, there isn't much to customize here.

The TK has way more options than the ME did.  Finishes, plates, LED light bar, weights, and wrist rests.  I haven't even mentioned the wrist rests.  There are some really nice options, and very unique too.  I like that gok has left open to option to possibly sell different shells in the future too.  I personally don't use a wrist rest, so it's a moot point for me, though I see how that would be appealing to other people.


Price
This is where things get a little hairy for me.  From what I can tell from proto videos, each board has about an even number of pros and cons for me.  I'm really happy with my ME's, but since I have an addiction like you all do, I'm always looking to add to my collection.  There aren't a lot of tented ergos out there, so I've been watching this board for years now.  However, I'm really tempted to buy another ME and just get it cerakoted if I want a new coloured board.  I could get any colour I want, built with switches, stabs, and keycaps for probably the same price (or less) than a TK barebones kit.

I do really want the board, but I am a big believer in only keeping things if you really love them.  A $750+ gamble for something that might be just ok, is a bitter pill to swallow, even if it comes from a notable figure in the space.  I still have 2 weeks to decide, so we'll see how I feel at 11pm on the last day  ^-^

Offline SmilingPudding

  • Posts: 29
  • 60% is the best layout.
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Type K or Mountain Ergo https://kbdfans.com/products/ic-kbdfans-mountain-ergo-keyboard-kit ?

This is a hypothetical question since ME is obviously discontinued already. But the designs are very similar.

Not sure what the other posters are basing their responses on, as they didn't elaborate on why they like the Type K over the Mountain Ergo, but I own 2 Mountain Ergo's.  Here's how I'm currently weighing the 2 options:

TL;DR - Imo, without a Type K proto on hand to compare in-person with:  Gok is a proven designer, has put a lot of thought into the Type K (TK), and there are more customization options available than there were for the Mountain Ergo (ME).  It's a beautiful board.  However, there are some compromises made in the design that make it  impractical, especially considering it costs double (or more) what the Mountain Ergo did.  Aesthetics and layout are subjective, and the only objective improvement is the customization available.  I'm torn on whether its worth the pricetag.


Design & layout
This is subjective, of course, but there are a number of things we can look at.  They are two completely different styles - the Type K is modelled after the 7V and has more of a high-tech feel, with the LED bar, PC bottom, and exposed back weight.  The Mountain is very angular and simple.  I will say that due the sloped sides, the Mountain's are somewhat difficult to pick up with one hand, not sure how the TK'd fare there.  Thematically, I'd say the angles fit the "mountain" theme.  FWIW, I like the design of the ME, but it's not anything mind-blowing.  The TK definitely has a more thoughtful design - though I can't say it's to my preferences.  The indicator lights on the top are a nice touch.  I like the overall aesthetic, but there are a couple of things that I don't like: the spacebars and the right mods.

The TK doesn't follow the typical 2u+2.25u or 2.25u+2.75u split spacebar layout.  A lot of keycap base kits are coming with a set of 1x 2u+2.25u+2.75u spacebars, which is great for split spacebar users, but means that you will now generally have to buy an additional child kit to outfit the TK vs. the ME, and buying 2nd hand sets will be much harder down the road.  I feel that base kits far outsell any child kits (extension/spacebars) in general, and that they are much harder to get extras of or find on the second hand market for sets that have already run.  I get that gok was going for elements of symmetry in this board, but I don't think that the compromise was worth it for that alone.  That said, a larger spacebar generally has a fuller sound, though I'm not sure a .25u size difference make that much of a difference.  More on sound later.

Ok, the right mods.  This is purely preference, but I really dislike the look of the right shift not lining up with the enter key, or extending beyond it.  I also get that the single 1.5u mod below that is supposed to emulate the WKL look, but the fact that it's inset even further also looks weird.  For me, a board that is focussed on symmetry, having the right side "retract" while the left side follows the traditonal alice "pyramid" layout looks really strange.  I'd prefer if the right shift was a full 2.75u size, with a 1.75u + 1u option, with either 2 x 1.5u or 1.25u mod keys below that, either in line or extended slightly beyond the right shift.  Again, this is also much better for keycap compatibility as 1.25u shifts are not as common as 1.75u ones.

I do like the TKs left-hand macro column though - I find that there aren't enough keys on the ME to show off novelties or artisans.


Sound
The ME only comes in alu top mount, love it or hate it.  It has a very crisp and even sound, and the alphas are very satisfying to hammer away on.  Mods sounds great, spacebars sound pretty good for an Alice layout.  I tend to prefer clackier builds these days, and both of my boards err on that side.  One is built with WS Onions and ePBT caps, while the other one is Cannoncaps CXA WoB (MTNU Susu can't come fast enough!)  on Azure Dragons.  I run them both with case foam, and no plate foam, as I do find the ME has a bit of case resonance without it, but only around the spacebars.  They have a nice open, clean sound.  Pretty standard for a well-implemented top mount alu plate.

With the soundtests I've heard for the TK, I have... mixed feelings.  I think Makerchun's build with the PC plate sounds the best.  It eliminates that resonance that everyone has been talking about here.  Again, I can't say for sure since I don't have a Type K, but to me it sounds more resonant / hollow than my ME's do with no foam.  I get that you get to hear some of the sound signature of a board with a bit more resonance, but it does seem to be a bit over the top for a keyboard of this class, with a PC bottom and SS weight.  Using a PC plate, even if it doesn't cost extra (though I have a feeling it might), might also make it sound to plasticy.  For the price, this seems like a bit of a risk.  I will say that the spacebars do sound better to my ear on the TK on Makerchun's PC config.  I have a weird issue with the ME where the cuts in the right plate around the spacebar make the switch ever so slightly loose, and only on the one built with Azure Dragons, and since its hotswap there's nothing holding the switch in place. This makes the right space a little less satisfying that it should be.  This doesn't appear to be the case with the TKs plates, as they are 1.5mm think and pretty solid, whereas the ME's plates are quite thin and have more matierial cut away.


Typing feel
The ME is fairly stiff, as is expected with no flex-cuts, and alu top mount.  I have no complaints here, though I wish there was a PC plate available just to see if it would have some forgiveness to it, given that it's a keyboard focussed on ergonomics.  I find that sometimes I get some fatigue in my fingers when I get going on the Azure Dragon build, though I think that's a personal issue.  They are very tactile switches, have a long-pole stem, and I am a fairly heavy typist.  I really enjoy hammering on heavy tactile switches.  I never have this issue on the linear ME, as I tend not to type as heavy on linears.

I can't really comment on the TK, but from the videos it still looks somewhat stiff.  But given that it's grommet mount and that there is a PC plate option, I think it's safe to assume that the TK will have a softer typing feel over the ME.


Finish/quality
I have both the e-white and ano black ME's.  They are both smooth, even, and flawless, inside and out.  The quality is top notch.  The machining is also excellent, there are no scuffs, marks, or uneven lines, even on the tiny bevelled top edge, or on the plate lines cut out.  I have nothing negative to say about the finish of my ME's, other than that my dumbass has put a couple tiny nicks into them when swapping them around.

Given gok's track record, I assume the TK will be the same, if not better.  I will say that part of why I am drawn to the TK is the finishes - e-white and ano black are a bit basic.  I'm really jealous that KBDFan's other ergo board, the Kunlun, came in all kinds of options, though those boards are too wide for me to consider purchasing one.  The TK has 3 more interesting options, which is a plus in my book, and after all, a big part of keyboards is the looks and customization.


Other features
As I've mentioned, the ME was fairly limited in the options available.  Its base configuration is good, but beyond foams and other standard modding, there isn't much to customize here.

The TK has way more options than the ME did.  Finishes, plates, LED light bar, weights, and wrist rests.  I haven't even mentioned the wrist rests.  There are some really nice options, and very unique too.  I like that gok has left open to option to possibly sell different shells in the future too.  I personally don't use a wrist rest, so it's a moot point for me, though I see how that would be appealing to other people.


Price
This is where things get a little hairy for me.  From what I can tell from proto videos, each board has about an even number of pros and cons for me.  I'm really happy with my ME's, but since I have an addiction like you all do, I'm always looking to add to my collection.  There aren't a lot of tented ergos out there, so I've been watching this board for years now.  However, I'm really tempted to buy another ME and just get it cerakoted if I want a new coloured board.  I could get any colour I want, built with switches, stabs, and keycaps for probably the same price (or less) than a TK barebones kit.

I do really want the board, but I am a big believer in only keeping things if you really love them.  A $750+ gamble for something that might be just ok, is a bitter pill to swallow, even if it comes from a notable figure in the space.  I still have 2 weeks to decide, so we'll see how I feel at 11pm on the last day  ^-^

Thanks for the comparison.

Offline nisiend

  • Posts: 2
Type K or Mountain Ergo https://kbdfans.com/products/ic-kbdfans-mountain-ergo-keyboard-kit ?

This is a hypothetical question since ME is obviously discontinued already. But the designs are very similar.

Not sure what the other posters are basing their responses on, as they didn't elaborate on why they like the Type K over the Mountain Ergo, but I own 2 Mountain Ergo's.  Here's how I'm currently weighing the 2 options:

TL;DR - Imo, without a Type K proto on hand to compare in-person with:  Gok is a proven designer, has put a lot of thought into the Type K (TK), and there are more customization options available than there were for the Mountain Ergo (ME).  It's a beautiful board.  However, there are some compromises made in the design that make it  impractical, especially considering it costs double (or more) what the Mountain Ergo did.  Aesthetics and layout are subjective, and the only objective improvement is the customization available.  I'm torn on whether its worth the pricetag.


Design & layout
This is subjective, of course, but there are a number of things we can look at.  They are two completely different styles - the Type K is modelled after the 7V and has more of a high-tech feel, with the LED bar, PC bottom, and exposed back weight.  The Mountain is very angular and simple.  I will say that due the sloped sides, the Mountain's are somewhat difficult to pick up with one hand, not sure how the TK'd fare there.  Thematically, I'd say the angles fit the "mountain" theme.  FWIW, I like the design of the ME, but it's not anything mind-blowing.  The TK definitely has a more thoughtful design - though I can't say it's to my preferences.  The indicator lights on the top are a nice touch.  I like the overall aesthetic, but there are a couple of things that I don't like: the spacebars and the right mods.

The TK doesn't follow the typical 2u+2.25u or 2.25u+2.75u split spacebar layout.  A lot of keycap base kits are coming with a set of 1x 2u+2.25u+2.75u spacebars, which is great for split spacebar users, but means that you will now generally have to buy an additional child kit to outfit the TK vs. the ME, and buying 2nd hand sets will be much harder down the road.  I feel that base kits far outsell any child kits (extension/spacebars) in general, and that they are much harder to get extras of or find on the second hand market for sets that have already run.  I get that gok was going for elements of symmetry in this board, but I don't think that the compromise was worth it for that alone.  That said, a larger spacebar generally has a fuller sound, though I'm not sure a .25u size difference make that much of a difference.  More on sound later.

Ok, the right mods.  This is purely preference, but I really dislike the look of the right shift not lining up with the enter key, or extending beyond it.  I also get that the single 1.5u mod below that is supposed to emulate the WKL look, but the fact that it's inset even further also looks weird.  For me, a board that is focussed on symmetry, having the right side "retract" while the left side follows the traditonal alice "pyramid" layout looks really strange.  I'd prefer if the right shift was a full 2.75u size, with a 1.75u + 1u option, with either 2 x 1.5u or 1.25u mod keys below that, either in line or extended slightly beyond the right shift.  Again, this is also much better for keycap compatibility as 1.25u shifts are not as common as 1.75u ones.

I do like the TKs left-hand macro column though - I find that there aren't enough keys on the ME to show off novelties or artisans.


Sound
The ME only comes in alu top mount, love it or hate it.  It has a very crisp and even sound, and the alphas are very satisfying to hammer away on.  Mods sounds great, spacebars sound pretty good for an Alice layout.  I tend to prefer clackier builds these days, and both of my boards err on that side.  One is built with WS Onions and ePBT caps, while the other one is Cannoncaps CXA WoB (MTNU Susu can't come fast enough!)  on Azure Dragons.  I run them both with case foam, and no plate foam, as I do find the ME has a bit of case resonance without it, but only around the spacebars.  They have a nice open, clean sound.  Pretty standard for a well-implemented top mount alu plate.

With the soundtests I've heard for the TK, I have... mixed feelings.  I think Makerchun's build with the PC plate sounds the best.  It eliminates that resonance that everyone has been talking about here.  Again, I can't say for sure since I don't have a Type K, but to me it sounds more resonant / hollow than my ME's do with no foam.  I get that you get to hear some of the sound signature of a board with a bit more resonance, but it does seem to be a bit over the top for a keyboard of this class, with a PC bottom and SS weight.  Using a PC plate, even if it doesn't cost extra (though I have a feeling it might), might also make it sound to plasticy.  For the price, this seems like a bit of a risk.  I will say that the spacebars do sound better to my ear on the TK on Makerchun's PC config.  I have a weird issue with the ME where the cuts in the right plate around the spacebar make the switch ever so slightly loose, and only on the one built with Azure Dragons, and since its hotswap there's nothing holding the switch in place. This makes the right space a little less satisfying that it should be.  This doesn't appear to be the case with the TKs plates, as they are 1.5mm think and pretty solid, whereas the ME's plates are quite thin and have more matierial cut away.


Typing feel
The ME is fairly stiff, as is expected with no flex-cuts, and alu top mount.  I have no complaints here, though I wish there was a PC plate available just to see if it would have some forgiveness to it, given that it's a keyboard focussed on ergonomics.  I find that sometimes I get some fatigue in my fingers when I get going on the Azure Dragon build, though I think that's a personal issue.  They are very tactile switches, have a long-pole stem, and I am a fairly heavy typist.  I really enjoy hammering on heavy tactile switches.  I never have this issue on the linear ME, as I tend not to type as heavy on linears.

I can't really comment on the TK, but from the videos it still looks somewhat stiff.  But given that it's grommet mount and that there is a PC plate option, I think it's safe to assume that the TK will have a softer typing feel over the ME.


Finish/quality
I have both the e-white and ano black ME's.  They are both smooth, even, and flawless, inside and out.  The quality is top notch.  The machining is also excellent, there are no scuffs, marks, or uneven lines, even on the tiny bevelled top edge, or on the plate lines cut out.  I have nothing negative to say about the finish of my ME's, other than that my dumbass has put a couple tiny nicks into them when swapping them around.

Given gok's track record, I assume the TK will be the same, if not better.  I will say that part of why I am drawn to the TK is the finishes - e-white and ano black are a bit basic.  I'm really jealous that KBDFan's other ergo board, the Kunlun, came in all kinds of options, though those boards are too wide for me to consider purchasing one.  The TK has 3 more interesting options, which is a plus in my book, and after all, a big part of keyboards is the looks and customization.


Other features
As I've mentioned, the ME was fairly limited in the options available.  Its base configuration is good, but beyond foams and other standard modding, there isn't much to customize here.

The TK has way more options than the ME did.  Finishes, plates, LED light bar, weights, and wrist rests.  I haven't even mentioned the wrist rests.  There are some really nice options, and very unique too.  I like that gok has left open to option to possibly sell different shells in the future too.  I personally don't use a wrist rest, so it's a moot point for me, though I see how that would be appealing to other people.


Price
This is where things get a little hairy for me.  From what I can tell from proto videos, each board has about an even number of pros and cons for me.  I'm really happy with my ME's, but since I have an addiction like you all do, I'm always looking to add to my collection.  There aren't a lot of tented ergos out there, so I've been watching this board for years now.  However, I'm really tempted to buy another ME and just get it cerakoted if I want a new coloured board.  I could get any colour I want, built with switches, stabs, and keycaps for probably the same price (or less) than a TK barebones kit.

I do really want the board, but I am a big believer in only keeping things if you really love them.  A $750+ gamble for something that might be just ok, is a bitter pill to swallow, even if it comes from a notable figure in the space.  I still have 2 weeks to decide, so we'll see how I feel at 11pm on the last day  ^-^

That's a brilliant write up sir, hats off to you.

Offline gok_nz

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 708
  • Location: NZ
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There are decisions the writeup fails to touch on regarding the layout that I'll explain.

The biggest driving factor for the layout wasn't necessarily symmetry, but to have an even tenting angle. To achieve this, you either need to have both halves be as wide as each other or have uneven bezel thicknesses. Most tented boards just concede that they won't have even tenting.

On a standard Alice layout, the left half is roughly 8.25u wide and the right is 8.75u wide. One macro key was added to the left which increases it to roughly 8.5u but on the right side, the area that protrudes the most is the shift and Fn. I only needed to reduce the overall width by 0.5u but a 2.5u shift (or 1.5u split right shift) doesn't exist so I needed to drop it down further to 2.25u with a 1.25u split shift (which is supported in most base kits).
For the right control key, it is a reach on standard Alice so I wanted to bring it closer to the middle. There is an argument to bring it even closer but to push it out in line with the shift would be counterproductive for a board which is trying to be more ergonomic.

Lastly, I'll go over the spacebars which is probably the one that is causing the most issues when it comes to keycap compatibility.
On a standard Alice board, the left spacebar is forced to have a split key. My thumb tends to rest on the gap between the split keys whether it is the 2.25+1 or 2+1.25 layout option.
I could flip the split key to the right half but that is just moving the issue.
I wanted users to be able to choose which side they split their spacebar on and 3u is the largest size that can be split further. The next size down is 2.25u which can split into 1.25u+1, but that is far too small for a spacebar.