geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: danrew on Thu, 11 July 2013, 21:24:17
-
Finally convinced myself that I need to try a Topre keyboard after having owned Cherry MX Blue, Brown, and Black (All Filco Majestouch TKLs) keyboards. I've finally reached my Cherry MX nirvana after rotating through my keyboards for three years...only to decide to pursue the much talked about "thock thock thock" that Topre fans seem to love.
Blues - The blues have become my daily driver (at home) and I game with these almost exclusively now. I can type the fastest with these switches as well. The click doesn't bother me, but I really need something to use at night when the wife goes to bed. Likewise, I can't take these to work but I totally would if I thought I could get away with it.
Browns - Contrary to what some think, I think browns have a very pleasant bottoming out sounds (plate mounted Filco). To me it kind of sounds like typing on a piece of bamboo (bamboo-mounted Cherry MX Blues anyone?) However, I find my accuracy drops significantly when trying to type as fast as I can, probably due to the lower actuation force. I can game with these, but something about the Blues just feel much more authoritative.
Blacks - I appreciate the smooth action on the linear style Cherry MX switches for gaming. Input feels very responsive and I used these at work for awhile (database and application developer) as they're pretty quiet. I typed with these for about a year, and I think they really strengthened my fingers. But I prefer something lighter for typing.
I ruled out HHKB pretty quickly, as I dislike function key combos, and the lack of arrow keys seems disconcerting to me. The tenkeyless Realforce 87U's on Elitekeyboards.com offers just about every weighting (minus 30-35g uniforms). Ergo distributed weighting (35g, 45g, 55g), uniform All 45g and uniform All 55g weighting is offered in both Black and White cases/keys. There are only 3 options for full size keyboards (Realforce 104U) at this time, so it was a pretty easy choice going with tenkeyless models.
I knew that I liked Cherry MX Blues the best. The tactility and the actuation force to me is perfect. So I knew that I wanted something around 50g of force. I knew I wouldn't really appreciate the ergo distributed weighting (35g,45g,55g) because I know that I prefer heavier switches (although I find the blacks a little too heavy to type comfortably on). Also, the uniform weighting appeals to my inner OCD mania. Wouldn't you know it, Realforce offers two variants of uniform weighting that are +- 5g of my ideal, 45g and 55g. I know that the Topre's have a different force curve than Cherrys (most of the actuation force is required at the top of the switch rather than the middle) but I worry that I will find 45g too light or 55g too heavy.
Confronted with this dilemma I revived my GH account and tried to figure out what to get. So here I am to beat the dead horse some more...Should I get a 45g or 55g unifrom weighted Realforce keyboard? I will most likely end up with a black Realforce 87U in either 45g or 55g uniform weighting (unless Brian at Elitekeyboards.com suddenly discovers a stock of 104U keyboards with all unifrom weighting). If anyone has owned both, I'd love to hear why you prefer one over the other...or if I should just buy both :D
Many thanks.
-
I really like my 55g 87U. I have heard that the 45g plate-mounted switches feel more "mushy". I'm not particularly interested in buying a 45g as well to test, but the 55g switches don't feel too heavy to me (I also type a lot on 62g MX blacks & clears)
That being said, I also have a uniform 30g plate-mount topre board, and I like it as well (it is definitely less tactile than the 55g, though), so I doubt you can really make a bad choice here.
-
I found 55g to be too fatiguing; I had to trade mine in for a variable weight board. I've tried the whole spectrum and find 45g to be right in the zone for my tastes, unlike the tactile-less 30g switches, the 45g's have a definite crispness in their actuation.
though our tastes may not align since cherry blues are my all time LEAST favorite so far. They're light enough and everything, I just can't stand how the release point is above the actuation point. It drives me bonkers! :eek:
-
I really like my 55g 87U. I have heard that the 45g plate-mounted switches feel more "mushy". I'm not particularly interested in buying a 45g as well to test, but the 55g switches don't feel too heavy to me (I also type a lot on 62g MX blacks & clears)
That being said, I also have a uniform 30g plate-mount topre board, and I like it as well (it is definitely less tactile than the 55g, though), so I doubt you can really make a bad choice here.
45g Plate mounted switches are more mushy when compared to the HHKB..I'm not sure why but they're softer. The 55g RF is a bit stiffer than the HHKB which IMO is a bit stiffer than RF 45g....
If you like blues, the uniform 45g will probably be about right...45g RF is a bit stiffer (to me) than MX Browns..so it should feel closer to blues...
Either way, you'll get used to what you're using pretty quick...
-
My favorite mx switch is the brown and I currently have a 45g realforce that I really love to type on. I have yet to try the 55g realforce but I assume it will be a bit more "snappy" than tha 45g I prefer lighter switches so it just depends on what you prefer.
Since blue (50g) is your favorite you would probably like the 55g realforce.
-
I currently have a variable 103u, and a uniform 45g FC660C, and I definitely like the feel of the uniform 45g more. It feels very crisp, and not mushy at all. The 35g keys on the variable feel mushy to me, but that's because they have almost no tactility. I feel that the 55g would be a bit too heavy for me, so I believe your best bet would be the 45.
-
Either way, you'll get used to what you're using pretty quick...
[/quote]
There's some keyboard wisdom right there...3 years ago, I spent hours, days, weeks debating which Cherry MX switch would be best for me, and ultimately I ended up with all three >.<
I've found the human condition to be more plastic and adaptive. Sometimes people (like me) just spend way too much time thinking about stuff. Granted my disposable income is quite a bit higher than it was 3 years ago...and to think I used to scoff at people owning more keyboards than they had computers...
-
I found 55g to be too fatiguing; I had to trade mine in for a variable weight board. I've tried the whole spectrum and find 45g to be right in the zone for my tastes, unlike the tactile-less 30g switches, the 45g's have a definite crispness in their actuation.
though our tastes may not align since cherry blues are my all time LEAST favorite so far. They're light enough and everything, I just can't stand how the release point is above the actuation point. It drives me bonkers! :eek:
What activities were you trying to use your 55g for? Typing, gaming? Just curious.
If you think blues are loud...I wonder what you think of buckling springs ha ha.
I found an old IBM hybrid typewriter (IBM Wheelwriter 2000) in the IT closet at work a couple days ago. Started typing on the keys and took one of the keycaps off (I always go for the Up Arrow key). Lo and behold, a buckling spring :) Always heard about buckling springs but never actually encountered one. I can say that they are QUITE loud, but I have to say that the tactile feedback is way more defined than any other switch I've used. The throw also feels shorter (key travel) and I feel like I could type very quick on it.
[attachimg=1]
Also, kudos for putting some first impressions up about the Realforce Hi-Pro.
-
I feel that the 55g would be a bit too heavy for me, so I believe your best bet would be the 45.
Since blue (50g) is your favorite you would probably like the 55g realforce.
These two replys basically sums up my dilemma ha ha.
-
Do what I do when you can't make a decision, flip a coin haha. If you don't like whichever one you get (which you will), you'll have no problem making 95% of your money back on the classifieds here.
-
What activities were you trying to use your 55g for? Typing, gaming? Just curious.
If you think blues are loud...I wonder what you think of buckling springs ha ha.
I used it for both typing and gaming, I found it fatiguing for typing though, I find model M keyboards take too much effort to type on too. I'm model F or nothing when it comes to buckling springs.
I didn't say I thought they were loud, though their noisiness isn't in dispute, my problem with them is that repeated key presses require an exaggerated release stroke to reset the mechanism, whereas on all other cherry switches you can freely hover about the actuation point and produce rapid repeat key presses. I know blues aren't meant for gaming, and for that very reason, but I also find them to be problematic when typing. I constantly make mistakes on double letters (look -> lok) but when I get going really fast I start missing single letters too where I hadn't fully released the key before a repeat strike.
Also, kudos for putting some first impressions up about the Realforce Hi-Pro.
Hey thanks. ;D
Also I'd warn you that 55g topres do feel quite a bit heavier than cherry blues, I'd say blues are more in line with 45g topres. Id put the 55g topres more on the level of model m buckling springs in practice.
-
I didn't say I thought they were loud, though their noisiness isn't in dispute, my problem with them is that repeated key presses require an exaggerated release stroke to reset the mechanism, whereas on all other cherry switches you can freely hover about the actuation point and produce rapid repeat key presses. I know blues aren't meant for gaming, and for that very reason, but I also find them to be problematic when typing. I constantly make mistakes on double letters (look -> lok) but when I get going really fast I start missing single letters too where I hadn't fully released the key before a repeat strike.
Now that you mention it. That must be why I'm more accurate with blues. The "delay" between the actuation and release point probably forces my fingers to make more defined typing strokes rather than button mashing (the auto-correct on my iPhone has spoiled me by translating my unintelligible button mashed texts into human language). I have the exact opposite problem when I type on Browns - "look" can become "loook" or "loko".
-
I've read on here that the weight of the switches becomes lighter as they are worked in (I cannot confirm as i havent had mine for long enough), so that may sway your desision.
-
I've read on here that the weight of the switches becomes lighter as they are worked in (I cannot confirm as i havent had mine for long enough), so that may sway your desision.
More likely your fingers bulk up. Comparing my 2 year old 45g to my day old 45g I also can't confirm lightening.
-
If anything, Topre switches get stiffer with age. I'm pretty sure LETE is on the right track. It's not so much that you're building any kind of muscle, really. More that you're gaining muscle memory of how hard to type on them. As that normalizes out, the actual feel of the tactile bump reduces because you're pressing each key with less and less... I guess "hesitancy" is the closest word. This has happened to me with every board that I've used for any extended period of time (more than a couple weeks), Topre or not.
-
What would cause a Topre switch to get stiffer over time? I've found that my Cherry MX switches lighten up over time. As did my rubber dome keyboards from yesteryear. I used a Saitek Eclipse (one of the first readily available backlit keyboards in my memory!) for years. Ultimately, that rubber sheet turned into the mushiest "grandma underarm skin" keyboard I've ever laid hands on. However, it's still very serviceable and my brother currently uses it as his silent late night keyboard. It literally has no acoustic definition one room over ha ha. I also used a Logitech Wave keyboard for a few years in college and that too lightened up. I guess in my experience, I've only seen rubber dome sheets get lighter with time.
-
Hypothetically, wear on the domes could cause them to "dry out" and stiffen, which I think is the usual argument. I don't find it particularly likely, but I've only had my 87Us for a couple of months now, so I can't supply an anecdote.
55g topres definitely feel slightly heavier than blues, but feel lighter than stock clears (though the tactile differences make them slightly hard to compare, topres have all of their resistance right at the top of the key travel).
-
What would cause a Topre switch to get stiffer over time? I've found that my Cherry MX switches lighten up over time. As did my rubber dome keyboards from yesteryear. I used a Saitek Eclipse (one of the first readily available backlit keyboards in my memory!) for years. Ultimately, that rubber sheet turned into the mushiest "grandma underarm skin" keyboard I've ever laid hands on. However, it's still very serviceable and my brother currently uses it as his silent late night keyboard. It literally has no acoustic definition one room over ha ha. I also used a Logitech Wave keyboard for a few years in college and that too lightened up. I guess in my experience, I've only seen rubber dome sheets get lighter with time.
In MX switches you got springs and sliders...
Springs will loose retraction ability by compressing/decompressing em continously and sliders will wear down slightly over time as well.
Resistance in the Topre mechanism is mainly caused by the rubberdome (the spring adds little resistance)
Elastomers, same as most other polymers contain some form of plasticizer/softener which will "dry out" over time making the material harder / stiffer / more brittle.
-
I have a RF 87 (silent) that I bought a week ago. I'm putting it up in the classifieds soon because I like my RF 55g more.
-
I have a RF 87 (silent) that I bought a week ago. I'm putting it up in the classifieds soon because I like my RF 55g more.
You should totally swap the stems and just sell the equivalent of a variable non-silent 87U. Silenced 55g 87U is an amazing keyboard (I use one at work).
-
Sounds interesting, but also like a lot of work. When I plug my RF into my linux machine at work the "_" and "^" key are mapped wrong. I don't think it's the dip switches because it's mapped correctly on my PC. Have any of you experienced this?
I've also considered the HiPro
-
Hmmmm... I think you could just swap the plates, so "a lot of work" is "unscrew a ton of screws move one thing and screw them all back in".
That being said, the screws in the 87U are a bit of a pain (there are a lot of them and they're small and very tight from the factory, so you can easily strip one if you're not careful).
EDIT: and no, I have never seen that mapping issue (on any of several linux machines). :(
-
55g all the way... I have both and prefer the 55 by far.
-
Considering that you are in Chicago, you should consider attending the first Keycon and try out some Topre boards, if anyboidy is bringing them.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44762.0
-
I've only tried the 45g Realforce so I don't know what the 55g feels like in comparison but I love using my 45g. I don't think its "mushy" at all. It has a nice weight and a nice bump. For Cherry MXs, I like the Blues and Browns and I feel like the 45g has a very comfortable weight that is similar to both.
-
I want to try a 55g now... My 45g feels very crisp though not as crisp as a cherry.
-
+1 for try before you buy.
Then nobody will argue with your personal tastes once you take whatever you prefer :-)
Considering that you are in Chicago, you should consider attending the first Keycon and try out some Topre boards, if anyboidy is bringing them.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44762.0
-
My rf 87u 55g feels better than my old hhkb (45g). They are different boards so feel does vary.
-
Considering that you are in Chicago, you should consider attending the first Keycon and try out some Topre boards, if anyboidy is bringing them.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44762.0
Good idea. Although to be perfectly honest, I doubt I can wait that long. A month of time is like an ETERNITY to a keyboard enthusiast! Still, there is something to be said about hands on (fingers on?) experience.
-
55g all the way... I have both and prefer the 55 by far.
I also have both, and they feel nothing alike. You would think it's just a 10g difference, but it is so much more in actual feeling. I love my 55g because it is so tactile and crisp, and in comparison the 45g feels like a watered down version for people with weak hands. Although, if you have pain issues, 45g would be a more logical choice. That, or you could inject steroids or some yayo into your fingers to make them stronger and less likely to fatigue.
-
45g isn't mushy at all. Something that helped me make my decision, If you prefer MX Blacks, you'll like 55g, if you like MX Reds you might prefer the 45g. I haven't tried the 55g yet but will someday.
-
So, I think I'm going to try out a 55g Realforce 87U. Thanks for all the input guys, good stuff. Seems like most people who have tried both (a very small sample size it would also seem) prefer the 55g. I think given the fact that I prefer blues over browns, purely from a force standpoint, I think the heavier switch will suit me more. I'll probably end up with both (that's what happened to me with Cherry MX switches), but I think I'll start with the 55g.
And for whatever reason the uniform 45g 87U from EK has red LED's while the 55g 87U has blue LED's (I'm more Obi-Wan than Vader).
Now the question is black or white...The black looks clean, understated and subtle. The white has a classy feel and I love the two tone keys (white keys in the middle and grey keys along the edges). What's the preference on black vs white Realforce keyboards?
Thanks!
-
So, I think I'm going to try out a 55g Realforce 87U. Thanks for all the input guys, good stuff. Seems like most people who have tried both (a very small sample size it would also seem) prefer the 55g. I think given the fact that I prefer blues over browns, purely from a force standpoint, I think the heavier switch will suit me more. I'll probably end up with both (that's what happened to me with Cherry MX switches), but I think I'll start with the 55g.
And for whatever reason the uniform 45g 87U from EK has red LED's while the 55g 87U has blue LED's (I'm more Obi-Wan than Vader).
Now the question is black or white...The black looks clean, understated and subtle. The white has a classy feel and I love the two tone keys (white keys in the middle and grey keys along the edges). What's the preference on black vs white Realforce keyboards?
Thanks!
That's the "EK Edition" 87u. There's a normal 45g I believe.
EDIT: I guess it only comes in white with the blue LED's. :/
-
So, I think I'm going to try out a 55g Realforce 87U. Thanks for all the input guys, good stuff. Seems like most people who have tried both (a very small sample size it would also seem) prefer the 55g. I think given the fact that I prefer blues over browns, purely from a force standpoint, I think the heavier switch will suit me more. I'll probably end up with both (that's what happened to me with Cherry MX switches), but I think I'll start with the 55g.
And for whatever reason the uniform 45g 87U from EK has red LED's while the 55g 87U has blue LED's (I'm more Obi-Wan than Vader).
Now the question is black or white...The black looks clean, understated and subtle. The white has a classy feel and I love the two tone keys (white keys in the middle and grey keys along the edges). What's the preference on black vs white Realforce keyboards?
Thanks!
Congrats!, good choice.
I'm one of the few whom has tried the 55g and 45g. Although I prefer the 55g. I will say that they both have their pros and cons. for instance, I feel like I can type faster on the 45g, although I didn't do a speed comparison. However, as for typing "feel" and "experience", 55g is the best keyboard I've tried.
As a side note, I ordered a HiPro a couple days ago, so I'll be able to weigh in on that one as well.
I hope you're happy with your choice.
-
45g isn't mushy at all. Something that helped me make my decision, If you prefer MX Blacks, you'll like 55g, if you like MX Reds you might prefer the 45g. I haven't tried the 55g yet but will someday.
I guess that someday is sooner than later ;)
-
Yea, I was eyeing that Hi-Profile 104 board as well, thinking that it might do well at work for me...why do keyboards have to be so expensive!?
-
If you prefer MX Blacks, you'll like 55g, if you like MX Reds you might prefer the 45g. I haven't tried the 55g yet but will someday.
The thing is I have a perceived notion that Blues fall inbetween Blacks and Reds in terms of actuation force/spring tension ha ha.
-
45g to me seems too light, mushy it ain't but i never really loved it. In fact I was a little underwhelmed by my first Topre experience - didn't stop me trying another tho' and 55g is easily my favourite switch. As a (sort of) reference I also prefer blacks over reds, although they feel totally different to Topre switches. I don't like blues or browns at all.
I don't think the Topre cases are as solid as the Filcos - Mildly disappointing given the price of the things. I mean they are not bad by any stretch but just slightly creaky. Not evident in normal use, but I just obsess over that kinda thing. . still my favourite board though.
EDIT: re colour.. well i got one of each & the results are in my sig lol. If i only had one choice it would be the white.
-
don't feel too bad about not going with the hi-pro, I haven't grown accustomed to it yet but getting used to its quirks has been abysmal. I kind of hate it.
-
don't feel too bad about not going with the hi-pro, I haven't grown accustomed to it yet but getting used to its quirks has been abysmal. I kind of hate it.
Well that sucks. Can you elaborate on the quirks? I just bought one, still in the mail, and would like to know what I'm in for.
Thanks
-
So, I think I'm going to try out a 55g Realforce 87U. Thanks for all the input guys, good stuff. Seems like most people who have tried both (a very small sample size it would also seem) prefer the 55g. I think given the fact that I prefer blues over browns, purely from a force standpoint, I think the heavier switch will suit me more. I'll probably end up with both (that's what happened to me with Cherry MX switches), but I think I'll start with the 55g.
And for whatever reason the uniform 45g 87U from EK has red LED's while the 55g 87U has blue LED's (I'm more Obi-Wan than Vader).
Now the question is black or white...The black looks clean, understated and subtle. The white has a classy feel and I love the two tone keys (white keys in the middle and grey keys along the edges). What's the preference on black vs white Realforce keyboards?
Thanks!
Congrats!, good choice.
I'm one of the few whom has tried the 55g and 45g. Although I prefer the 55g. I will say that they both have their pros and cons. for instance, I feel like I can type faster on the 45g, although I didn't do a speed comparison. However, as for typing "feel" and "experience", 55g is the best keyboard I've tried.
As a side note, I ordered a HiPro a couple days ago, so I'll be able to weigh in on that one as well.
I hope you're happy with your choice.
I will admit that although I am to this day underwhelmed by my 45g board, and the 55g is WAY more fun to type on, I do feel that I type faster on the 45g. As far as color, I have both. The black looks better to begin with, but then the novelty fades. The white starts to grow on you after time, and is also much better for gaming to locate keys to perform in game action, especially if you game in the dark. I am a touch typer, but on the black it is hard sometimes to game since your fingers don't sit on the home row so you have to think more about key locations. It only adds about half a second to locate keys, but sometimes that means you're dead.
-
I don't think the Topre cases are as solid as the Filcos - Mildly disappointing given the price of the things. I mean they are not bad by any stretch but just slightly creaky. Not evident in normal use, but I just obsess over that kinda thing. . still my favourite board though.
All three of my Filco's are first-gen Majestouch's (Costar I think) and I have to agree that they are built like a tank. They feel super sturdy on a desk and the four thick rubber feet really hold it in place while you're furiously... *Insert Activity Here* ;)
-
I guess that someday is sooner than later ;)
Just picked up a RF 55g U from the classys, pretty stoked to try it out. Next dilemma is, which board goes to the Office and which one stays at home. :0
-
I guess that someday is sooner than later ;)
Just picked up a RF 55g U from the classys, pretty stoked to try it out. Next dilemma is, which board goes to the Office and which one stays at home. :0
45g for the office and the 55 for home. Or better yet, order yourself a silent, mod it to 45 / 55 uniform, and then take THAT one to the office ;)
-
Are the silent Realforces really that much quieter? Also, could someone educate me on how they are made silent? On Cherrys that would mean O-Rings on the stems, but as I understand it the "silent" Topres have physically different stems (I saw they were purple somewhere on the internet).
-
There ya go haha.
They use a foam silencing on the stems and something else, but like I say in the vid, whatever they do, it works.
-
Thanks for the video. Definitely appreciate the feedback.
-
Are the silent Realforces really that much quieter? Also, could someone educate me on how they are made silent? On Cherrys that would mean O-Rings on the stems, but as I understand it the "silent" Topres have physically different stems (I saw they were purple somewhere on the internet).
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45141.0
-
Hmm.. I may need to try out 55g's now after obtaining my HHKB Pro2.
-
Just got my 55g 87U this morning. Gonna bring it to work and take it for a spin.
Initial impressions:
-Love the look of the keyboard. The black legends on grey keys looks awesome and I don't mind that they're a little tough to read quickly. I can touch type around 95 wpm so I generally don't need to look down. My primary game is League of Legends, so my fingers also don't move very far from the QWER.
-The case is a little bigger compared to my Filcos (both are TKL's).
-The switches have a very unique feel. Very pleasant to bottom out on.
-I feel that the 55g switches are a bit heavier than Cherry MX Blues like some have mentioned.
-
About two hours of key time with the 55g. Left pinky is getting a little tired, but the same thing happened when I went from MX Browns to MX Blacks. Might be that I need to acclimate to these switches, but if feels like I'm definitely striking harder than I was with MX Blues.
-
Just got my 55g 87U this morning. Gonna bring it to work and take it for a spin.
Initial impressions:
-Love the look of the keyboard. The black legends on grey keys looks awesome and I don't mind that they're a little tough to read quickly. I can touch type around 95 wpm so I generally don't need to look down. My primary game is League of Legends, so my fingers also don't move very far from the QWER.
-The case is a little bigger compared to my Filcos (both are TKL's).
-The switches have a very unique feel. Very pleasant to bottom out on.
-I feel that the 55g switches are a bit heavier than Cherry MX Blues like some have mentioned.
You should try Dota 2. It's similar to LOL, but IMHO better.
-
About two hours of key time with the 55g. Left pinky is getting a little tired, but the same thing happened when I went from MX Browns to MX Blacks. Might be that I need to acclimate to these switches, but if feels like I'm definitely striking harder than I was with MX Blues.
Give the 55g a few weeks to break in....it will become a completely different switch and lighten up a little bit.
-
Just got my 55g 87U this morning. Gonna bring it to work and take it for a spin.
Initial impressions:
I have a Filco TKL browns at work which a few of my colleagues has commented to be too loud. In your opinion would it be worth it for me noise wise to switch to a non silent Topre?
-
Just got my 55g 87U this morning. Gonna bring it to work and take it for a spin.
Initial impressions:
I have a Filco TKL browns at work which a few of my colleagues has commented to be too loud. In your opinion would it be worth it for me noise wise to switch to a non silent Topre?
Hmmmm. Well, I don't think it'd honestly be any better. My 45g 660C is a bit loud (If you watched my video) while the silenced versions are SO much quieter. If you get the white version, it's only $15 more to get the silenced version, and I recommend it 100%. That'll be perfect for a work or class environment.
-
I just got my HiPro in yesterday. I've only typed on it for about 15 min so far. This is a very unique keyboard. Initial impressions of the HiPro are mixed for the moment. But i'ts growing on me fast. One thing in particular that I love about this keyboard is the way the number row catches your finger. I tend to fat finger the "underscore" in particular and often get "+" to go with it. The upward curvature and more narrow key target have solved that problem right away. I also love the way the backspace catches your pinky. Also, the scoops. this has no nipples on the F and J, but rather very exadurated scoops on "S, D, F" and "J, K, L". It really just grabs your hands and forces them to the home row. I have never had trouble with this in the past, but this really will make sure that their is no issue. My only complaint at the moment is that it's a little louder than I would have liked. My neighbors at work are sooooooo picky about noise at work. I'm sure they would complain about it. Heck, they even complain when I get going fast on a rubber dome.
I'll likely post a review comparing the HiPro, to 87U (silenced), and 87U 55g later.
-
I have a Filco TKL browns at work which a few of my colleagues has commented to be too loud. In your opinion would it be worth it for me noise wise to switch to a non silent Topre?
I think it would depend on the specific keyboard with MX browns that you have. The Topre switches in the Realforce 87U I just got are definitely quieter than the MX Browns in my Filco Majestouch.
-
You guys are still arguing about Topre weighting and MX switches? Haven't I made the effort to teach you better...?
-
You guys are still arguing about Topre weighting and MX switches? Haven't I made the effort to teach you better...?
MY, MY, MY....some lessons are hard to learn ;)
-
I think I'm going to have my name changed. How does esooMYnona sound?
-
I think I'm going to have my name changed. How does esooMYnona sound?
Technically it works better grammatically than the current name :P Maybe I should do a tour of the MY Phantom to educate these poor souls.
-
I think I'm going to have my name changed. How does esooMYnona sound?
Do it!!
I think I'm going to have my name changed. How does esooMYnona sound?
Technically it works better gratically than the current name :p Maybe I should do a tour of the MY Phantom to educate these poor souls.
Sign me up!!
-
Never actually heard of MY switches until this morning. Please rid me of my ignorance o enlightened one!
-
Take a look at my profile to read the truth.
-
Take a look at my profile to read the truth.
The truth is out there...X
-
So...only the G81 has Cherry MY switches? Any reason why no other companies wanted to make em?
-
If you invented the perfect switch, would you let others get in and profit from your glory? I didn't think so.
No, you'd say, "Here, have some of these other crappy switches. We call them MX."
-
If you invented the perfect switch, would you let others get in and profit from your glory? I didn't think so.
No, you'd say, "Here, have some of these other crappy switches. We call them MX."
I'm so sigging this.
-
If you invented the perfect switch, would you let others get in and profit from your glory? I didn't think so.
No, you'd say, "Here, have some of these other crappy switches. We call them MX."
I'm so sigging this.
Moose is just a siggable person. I speak from experience :p
-
I'm so proud lately! That's my third sig so far. I'm aiming for all of them.
-
I'm so proud lately! That's my third sig so far. I'm aiming for all of them.
Keep it up moose and I might just change my name to oMooselz
-
More like 0Mooselz, because you ain't strong like me.
-
More like 0Mooselz, because you ain't strong like me.
I can't have my "o" it has to be a "0"? :(
-
Mooses? Mice? Mices?
http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moose
-
So far I'm finding the 55g to be a bit less responsive than MX Blues. I like the feeling and the sound of the Topre switches bottoming out, but I think I'm still used to the middle actuation point on the MX switches. So far, I'm not really blown away with the 55g Topre switches. I think I may order a Realforce 87U in 45g or a Type Heaven to try out.
-
Yet Another Victim of the GeekHack syndrome. Soon you'll have 3 Topres: A 55g, a 45g and a variable. Then you might end up with a silent :-)
So far I'm finding the 55g to be a bit less responsive than MX Blues. I like the feeling and the sound of the Topre switches bottoming out, but I think I'm still used to the middle actuation point on the MX switches. So far, I'm not really blown away with the 55g Topre switches. I think I may order a Realforce 87U in 45g or a Type Heaven to try out.
-
So far I'm finding the 55g to be a bit less responsive than MX Blues. I like the feeling and the sound of the Topre switches bottoming out, but I think I'm still used to the middle actuation point on the MX switches. So far, I'm not really blown away with the 55g Topre switches. I think I may order a Realforce 87U in 45g or a Type Heaven to try out.
Typing on 55g topre is a lot different than typing on mx switches. You almost have to stab at the switch and let it fall on its own past the tactile bump and then spring back up. Keep at it with the 55g and you'll soon find your rhythm.
-
So far I'm finding the 55g to be a bit less responsive than MX Blues. I like the feeling and the sound of the Topre switches bottoming out, but I think I'm still used to the middle actuation point on the MX switches. So far, I'm not really blown away with the 55g Topre switches. I think I may order a Realforce 87U in 45g or a Type Heaven to try out.
I just bought a Hipro and an 87U silent. I'll trade either of those for your 55g board. the silent is about 1mo old and the Hipro is like 3 days old - I can prove it with reciepts too. I wanted to try other options for work, but I just love the 55g. Offer is there if you want it, otherwise I'll just put them up in the classifieds.
-
Here's a pic. The top is white (55g), the middle is silent, and the bottom is obviously the HiPro
I'll be putting them in the classifieds later as well.
Thanks
FYI, I may keep the silent, but I'm getting rid of the HiPro for sure. My neighbor loves it, but it's not for me.
I'll also be posting a review contrasting the three.
-
Sorry the HiPro didn't work out for you. The Type Heaven I ordered from Amazon should be here tomorrow (God I love Prime shipping). Going to compare the 55g and the 45g head to head and report back here. I'll definitely keep your offer in mind. I'd be more interested in the silent, purely because I'm curious about variable weighted Topres. Kinda wonder what it is about the HiPro that turns people off (almost buy one just to know...almost ha ha).
-
To be honest I don't even notice the variable weighting. The silent just types like a lighter version of the 55g to me. I also think the silent is a little scratchy. As for the HiPro, There is no doubt it's awesome in build quality. And I actually like the spherical raised keycaps, ALOT. I just can't get over the light key feel. I know the key feel is total preference, so I can't say it's a bad keyboard. I just like a heavier switch.
-
I think LETE was having some buyer's remorse regarding the HiPro as well. Maybe he can chime in as he seems to be one of the first people to order a HiPro from EK.
-
So far I'm finding the 55g to be a bit less responsive than MX Blues. I like the feeling and the sound of the Topre switches bottoming out, but I think I'm still used to the middle actuation point on the MX switches. So far, I'm not really blown away with the 55g Topre switches. I think I may order a Realforce 87U in 45g or a Type Heaven to try out.
I just bought a Hipro and an 87U silent. I'll trade either of those for your 55g board. the silent is about 1mo old and the Hipro is like 3 days old - I can prove it with reciepts too. I wanted to try other options for work, but I just love the 55g. Offer is there if you want it, otherwise I'll just put them up in the classifieds.
didn't i send you a message offering to trade my 55g for your silent? if not, trade???
<3
wd
-
I'm really enjoying the 45g switches on the Type heaven. I definitely notice a difference between the keycaps though. The PBT keys on the Realforce are much quieter than the ABS keys on the Type Heaven. Looks like EK's gonna be getting another order from me soon...the best of both (my) worlds...45g Topre with PBT keys~
Anyone interested in relieving me of this week old Realforce 55g 87U?
-
variable force woo \o7
-
Variables are next on my list :p
Then I suppose Silent Topre.
-
Variables are next on my list :p
Then I suppose Silent Topre.
Silent 55g yo....that's what I'm doing once EK gets back from vacation!
-
HHKB 55g Type-S is the way to go :P
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
-
Anyone know where I could get a uniform 45g Realforce 104U? Seems like EK's only got variable weighted for the fullsize.
-
According to Brian at EK, fullsize Realforce 104U's with uniform 55g and 35g are being considered. Probably won't be this year though, as Topre's production schedule is backed up.
-
Variables are next on my list :p
Then I suppose Silent Topre.
Silent 55g yo....that's what I'm doing once EK gets back from vacation!
Wot I no see that option. I already have an 87u 55g.
-
About two hours of key time with the 55g. Left pinky is getting a little tired, but the same thing happened when I went from MX Browns to MX Blacks. Might be that I need to acclimate to these switches, but if feels like I'm definitely striking harder than I was with MX Blues.
Give the 55g a few weeks to break in....it will become a completely different switch and lighten up a little bit.
Whats your opinion between your HHKB and 55g?
I wouldn't want to jack the thread but I've also been having confusion on which one to get. I do plan to get them both (or maybe more likely get them all, thanks a lot geekhack), but I don't know which one to grab first since there will be a considerable time gap between them.
-
About two hours of key time with the 55g. Left pinky is getting a little tired, but the same thing happened when I went from MX Browns to MX Blacks. Might be that I need to acclimate to these switches, but if feels like I'm definitely striking harder than I was with MX Blues.
Give the 55g a few weeks to break in....it will become a completely different switch and lighten up a little bit.
Whats your opinion between your HHKB and 55g?
I wouldn't want to jack the thread but I've also been having confusion on which one to get. I do plan to get them both (or maybe more likely get them all, thanks a lot geekhack), but I don't know which one to grab first since there will be a considerable time gap between them.
I think it all depends on whether or not you're ready to learn a new layout right now, the HHKB does take a little bit of time getting used to, but once you get the gist of it, it will probably instantly become one of your favorites. You really can't go wrong with either one as your first choice, but If I were you I'd go with a HHKB.
-
About two hours of key time with the 55g. Left pinky is getting a little tired, but the same thing happened when I went from MX Browns to MX Blacks. Might be that I need to acclimate to these switches, but if feels like I'm definitely striking harder than I was with MX Blues.
Give the 55g a few weeks to break in....it will become a completely different switch and lighten up a little bit.
Whats your opinion between your HHKB and 55g?
I wouldn't want to jack the thread but I've also been having confusion on which one to get. I do plan to get them both (or maybe more likely get them all, thanks a lot geekhack), but I don't know which one to grab first since there will be a considerable time gap between them.
Going to get crucified here by the hordes of HHKB enthusiasts, but I own a HHKB Type-S, RF variable, silent and 55g, and a FC660C and I can say with certainty that the 55g is the king of them all. I'm sorry but the plastic plate on the HHKB just feels shabby when compared to the RF's steel plate. That said, however, there is a certain charm about the HHKB that makes it very enjoyable to type on. If you're looking for solid, though, look elsewhere (hint: 55g).
-
Good input goobus
-
Good input goobus
Ha I can't tell if sarcasm.
-
Must be the biggest problem since everyone advocates the HHKB but there's also a lot of good thing about 55g topre. Honestly getting used to the HHKB is probably the least of my problems, I really like the form factor but I'd prefer a better typing experience, obviously I don't know which one would suit me more since I don't think anyone near me has a 55g Realforce and HHKB for me to borrow. I think the 55g would suit me more but I can only base it off of opinions from everyone here and from the fact I think heavier switches are growing on me but I've been on and off with the weights of switches.
-
Finally convinced myself that I need to try a Topre keyboard after having owned Cherry MX Blue, Brown, and Black (All Filco Majestouch TKLs) keyboards. I've finally reached my Cherry MX nirvana after rotating through my keyboards for three years...only to decide to pursue the much talked about "thock thock thock" that Topre fans seem to love.
...
Confronted with this dilemma I revived my GH account and tried to figure out what to get. So here I am to beat the dead horse some more...Should I get a 45g or 55g unifrom weighted Realforce keyboard? I will most likely end up with a black Realforce 87U in either 45g or 55g uniform weighting (unless Brian at Elitekeyboards.com suddenly discovers a stock of 104U keyboards with all unifrom weighting). If anyone has owned both, I'd love to hear why you prefer one over the other...or if I should just buy both :D
Many thanks.
I was/am in a similar position. With Cherry switches I prefer blues. I also enjoy Buckling Spring M (SSK) and I bought Leopold FC660C 45g and a used RealForce 87UW 45g. I love typing on the Leopold. Based on the Leopold, I love Topre but the Leopold is probably closer to 50g than 45g based on the RealForce's 45g. The RealForce 45g is ok, but doesn't satisfy me. So, I have ordered a 87UB 55g from Elitekeyboards today. So soon I will know the answer (for me!). I think if you love browns, the 45g RealForce is your choice. If you love blues and or buckling springs then get the 55g.
Good luck.
-
About two hours of key time with the 55g. Left pinky is getting a little tired, but the same thing happened when I went from MX Browns to MX Blacks. Might be that I need to acclimate to these switches, but if feels like I'm definitely striking harder than I was with MX Blues.
Give the 55g a few weeks to break in....it will become a completely different switch and lighten up a little bit.
Whats your opinion between your HHKB and 55g?
I wouldn't want to jack the thread but I've also been having confusion on which one to get. I do plan to get them both (or maybe more likely get them all, thanks a lot geekhack), but I don't know which one to grab first since there will be a considerable time gap between them.
Going to get crucified here by the hordes of HHKB enthusiasts, but I own a HHKB Type-S, RF variable, silent and 55g, and a FC660C and I can say with certainty that the 55g is the king of them all. I'm sorry but the plastic plate on the HHKB just feels shabby when compared to the RF's steel plate. That said, however, there is a certain charm about the HHKB that makes it very enjoyable to type on. If you're looking for solid, though, look elsewhere (hint: 55g).
I agree. The HHKB is fun because its got a small form factor and the switches are really tactile (more so than the 55g RF). However, the 55g RF is smooth yet tactile (i.e. it's more refined).
-
Good input goobus
Ha I can't tell if sarcasm.
[/quote]
NOT sarcasm! :D
-
i have an answer: no, 45g is not mushy at all.
i have a question: is 55g more pleasant to bottom out than 45g? does it have greater resistance, just like the ordinary rubber dome keyboard?
-
After spending about 3 months with a Realforce 87U 55G, 87U 45G and an HHKB I think the HHKB has the best bottom out feel.
I don't really feel much of a difference in bottom out "feel" between the 45g and the 55g. The biggest difference (for me) is the force that it takes to get past the initial bump. So really I think if you're concerned with bottom out "feel" I would say that they're comparable. Having said that they are the same, I personally prefer the 55g because that is closer to the force I like to use to hit switches.
The difference between the plate mounted (Realforce and Leopold) vs the case mounted (HHKB) Topre keyboards is much more defined. I would say that the HHKB is probably one of the most pleasurable keyboards to type on. It makes a sound that is very very "thocky". It beats the Realforces in feel, sound and keystroke travel (even though they're probably the same).
-
if they are the same, how is it possible then?
how is key travel on an hhkb different from a realforce?
-
i have an answer: no, 45g is not mushy at all.
i have a question: is 55g more pleasant to bottom out than 45g? does it have greater resistance, just like the ordinary rubber dome keyboard?
Of course it has more resistance, 45 vs 55g >.>
But def still lighter than a reg rubber dome. My fingers can still flow nicely over the 55g, not so much normal rubber domes
-
i mean the springback force? does 55g resist stronger than 45g after passing the tactile bump? or all the difference between two boards is the force required to pass the tactile bump?
-
i mean the springback force? does 55g resist stronger than 45g after passing the tactile bump? or all the difference between two boards is the force required to pass the tactile bump?
Haven't used a 45g RF for any extended amount of time but yeah, it is slightly stronger than the HHKB's.
-
HHKB with its plastic plate is MUCH lighter to carry around.
If you want an external keyboard for a notebook that you carry around with you, HHKB all the way!
-
i mean the springback force? does 55g resist stronger than 45g after passing the tactile bump?
I think the 55g and the 45g have the same amount of return force after the initial bump. I could be wrong about this, but I think the variance in the forces are based on the rubber sheet and not the spring. So I believe that the biggest difference between the two is the force it takes to overcome the initial bump. As far as I can tell, the two have the same return force.
I reevaluated my opinions on the HHKB and I've come to the conclusion that there actually isn't a difference in keystroke travel distance but that my perception comes from a stronger bottom out response that I get as a result of the plastic housing (more positive, louder bottom out sound). I think this is what makes the 45G Realforce feel "mushy" to some people; at least for me, the HHKB feels less mushy because of the more positive bottom out feel and sound.
Same goes for the 55G Realforce. I think that the stronger force required to get over the initial bump creates a louder bottom out response as the user puts more pressure on the key.
-
Danrew has a point about plastic bottom plates. Unicomp's plastic bottom plate makes a pleasant 'thock' when bottoming out a key. However, it's not as satisfying or as solid feeling as an IBM, not Lexmark-made, Model M BS switch and metal base plate. I am thinking of moving from a 45g RF to a 55g RF, both 87U KBs. I'm not so sure an HHKB would be my preference in a KB for one who writes for a living; although it may be great for people how write code.
-
I had a hhkb for over a year and loved it. Got my rf and sold that piece of crap hhkb. 55g 87u layout is the best for me. Hhkb would be nice for travel but that is few and far between. I have my rf in the office and my KMAC at home. No need for travel board. =)
I do miss it sometimes and wish I had kept it for modding. Bluetooth, smartcard reader, and reprogrammable would have made it a keeper for me.
-
There's also the Leopold FC660C as an alternative to the HHKB. It's more of a compromise layout between the HHKB and the Realforce and, like the Realforce, is plate-mounted. If the HHKB layout looks a little alien, the FC660C has a comfortably familiar layout.
-
I'm not so sure an HHKB would be my preference in a KB for one who writes for a living; although it may be great for people how write code.
The FC660C is probably a good fit for you if you're looking to go small.
- It's plate mounted like the Realforces (and thockier than the RF by some accounts)
- Standard Layout (No traditional 6 cluster but it has a dedicated Delete key)
- Cheaper than both the Realforces and HHKB
The biggest challenges I had when going over to the HHKB layout was:
1. Control key is where the Caps Lock button is - copy paste functions become less than second nature
2. Backspace key is where the Backslash key is - This drove me crazy at first
3. "6 Cluster" in the second layer (Had trouble adjusting to hitting Home and End especially)
I may be somewhat of an oddball because the arrow key combos didn't really bother me, and that seems to be what throws most people for a loop when they adopt the HHKB layout. I actually really like the way the arrow keys work on the HHKB. It's actually the Home and End key combinations that are difficult for my brain to process sometimes. You have to kind of reach for the Home and End key combos where the arrow keys sit naturally under your fingers.
Took me about 3 weeks to get used to the new layout and now I switch between my 87U at work and my HHKB at home seamlessly. I think there are advantages to both layouts, and I think learning new ways to do everyday things and flexing your brain outside of its comfort zone keeps life interesting.
-
I found 55g to be too fatiguing; I had to trade mine in for a variable weight board. I've tried the whole spectrum and find 45g to be right in the zone for my tastes, unlike the tactile-less 30g switches, the 45g's have a definite crispness in their actuation.
though our tastes may not align since cherry blues are my all time LEAST favorite so far. They're light enough and everything, I just can't stand how the release point is above the actuation point. It drives me bonkers! :eek:
I have a 55g RF, a variable silent RF and an HHKB Pro2. I like the rock solid feel of the 55g. And for coding, it's great since you're not typing continuously. However, it's too fatiguing for my typing style for long typing sessions. The HHKB is just right, and I even really like the variable. However, I'd like to pick up a 45g RF uni to replace the 55g.
-
I don't know if this will help or not, but IMO the hhkb2 is not satisfying at all to type on, I don't know if it's the case or the mount but it just feels...empty?
-
I don't know if this will help or not, but IMO the hhkb2 is not satisfying at all to type on, I don't know if it's the case or the mount but it just feels...empty?
Could be...The RF feels like you're hitting something very solid and hard...the HHKB has a much warmer bottom out feel..part of that is the resonance of the case mounted switches vs. a metal plate.
A lot of people feel the most satisfying part of a Topre switch is the sound..the thock...and the HHKB has the most of all of them (so far).
The good thing is if you don't like the feel of the HHKB, you have other choices...
For me, I personally enjoy the feel and sound of my HHKB better..but I find I type more on my variable RF because it is easier on my hands...At first I found variable to be rather meh..but when I switch back and forth I can really feel how much easier it was on my hands using the variable..and while not quite as enjoyable as the HHKB, it is still really nice to use..
-
I don't know if this will help or not, but IMO the hhkb2 is not satisfying at all to type on, I don't know if it's the case or the mount but it just feels...empty?
Could be...The RF feels like you're hitting something very solid and hard...the HHKB has a much warmer bottom out feel..part of that is the resonance of the case mounted switches vs. a metal plate.
A lot of people feel the most satisfying part of a Topre switch is the sound..the thock...and the HHKB has the most of all of them (so far).
The good thing is if you don't like the feel of the HHKB, you have other choices...
For me, I personally enjoy the feel and sound of my HHKB better..but I find I type more on my variable RF because it is easier on my hands...At first I found variable to be rather meh..but when I switch back and forth I can really feel how much easier it was on my hands using the variable..and while not quite as enjoyable as the HHKB, it is still really nice to use..
Yeah I agree, it's probably just that the case keeps slipping or 'flexing' but the key does the feel nice (still prefer my blues :P)
-
I don't know if this will help or not, but IMO the hhkb2 is not satisfying at all to type on, I don't know if it's the case or the mount but it just feels...empty?
Could be...The RF feels like you're hitting something very solid and hard...the HHKB has a much warmer bottom out feel..part of that is the resonance of the case mounted switches vs. a metal plate.
A lot of people feel the most satisfying part of a Topre switch is the sound..the thock...and the HHKB has the most of all of them (so far).
The good thing is if you don't like the feel of the HHKB, you have other choices...
For me, I personally enjoy the feel and sound of my HHKB better..but I find I type more on my variable RF because it is easier on my hands...At first I found variable to be rather meh..but when I switch back and forth I can really feel how much easier it was on my hands using the variable..and while not quite as enjoyable as the HHKB, it is still really nice to use..
Yeah I agree, it's probably just that the case keeps slipping or 'flexing' but the key does the feel nice (still prefer my blues :P)
Yeap...nothing wrong w/ that...
-
As much as I love my hhkb, 55g RF feels so much better. The switch feels smoother which I am guessing is due to hhkb being case mounted.
But I put up with it because I love the HHKB form factor. Hoping to get a 55g rf soon and swap the springs/domes with my hhkb and see how I like it.
And by put up, I dont mean I hate it as it still feels great to type on, I just enjoy the RF feeling more.
-
As much as I love my hhkb, 55g RF feels so much better. The switch feels smoother which I am guessing is due to hhkb being case mounted.
But I put up with it because I love the HHKB form factor. Hoping to get a 55g rf soon and swap the springs/domes with my hhkb and see how I like it.
And by put up, I dont mean I hate it as it still feels great to type on, I just enjoy the RF feeling more.
You only have to swap the domes, the springs are all the same.
-
am now in search for ~55g rubber dome board to see if my fingers are okay with such actuation force. that's because i can't use 45g due to pain issues due to too weak springback.
-
am now in search for ~55g rubber dome board to see if my fingers are okay with such actuation force. that's because i can't use 45g due to pain issues due to too weak springback.
Is the pain you're experiencing because you're bottoming out with excessive force? Forgive me, but I don't understand how one would experience pain because of a switch's weaker recovery or, as you said, spring-back. This is a sincere question, I'm not attempting to ridicule your post. I've recently had some pain when using my 55-gram 87UB; so I picked up an MX Red keyboard and find that I have no joint pain with the lighter switch, not surprising. So I'm thinking of getting a 45-gram Topre keyboard. After years of using heavier key switches, it may be time to be more mindful of my aging digits.
-
am now in search for ~55g rubber dome board to see if my fingers are okay with such actuation force. that's because i can't use 45g due to pain issues due to too weak springback.
Is the pain you're experiencing because you're bottoming out with excessive force? Forgive me, but I don't understand how one would experience pain because of a switch's weaker recovery or, as you said, spring-back. This is a sincere question, I'm not attempting to ridicule your post.
i don't know either. my fingers hurt on 45g topre, reds and ergo clears. it all sterted after i've used topre for a few days. before topre reds were fine to me.
-
am now in search for ~55g rubber dome board to see if my fingers are okay with such actuation force. that's because i can't use 45g due to pain issues due to too weak springback.
Is the pain you're experiencing because you're bottoming out with excessive force? Forgive me, but I don't understand how one would experience pain because of a switch's weaker recovery or, as you said, spring-back. This is a sincere question, I'm not attempting to ridicule your post.
i don't know either. my fingers hurt on 45g topre, reds and ergo clears. it all sterted after i've used topre for a few days. before topre reds were fine to me.
Thanks for responding. If you try 55-gram Topre domes, I hope the conversion works for you. Discomfort when typing is really disconcerting.
-
I don't know if this will help or not, but IMO the hhkb2 is not satisfying at all to type on, I don't know if it's the case or the mount but it just feels...empty?
Could be...The RF feels like you're hitting something very solid and hard...the HHKB has a much warmer bottom out feel..part of that is the resonance of the case mounted switches vs. a metal plate.
A lot of people feel the most satisfying part of a Topre switch is the sound..the thock...and the HHKB has the most of all of them (so far).
The good thing is if you don't like the feel of the HHKB, you have other choices...
For me, I personally enjoy the feel and sound of my HHKB better..but I find I type more on my variable RF because it is easier on my hands...At first I found variable to be rather meh..but when I switch back and forth I can really feel how much easier it was on my hands using the variable..and while not quite as enjoyable as the HHKB, it is still really nice to use..
Yeah I agree, it's probably just that the case keeps slipping or 'flexing' but the key does the feel nice (still prefer my blues :P)
I didn't like the way the HHKB slid around on my desk, so I picked up these:
http://www.amazon.com/Bumpers-Small-Diameter-Thick-Sheet/dp/B003F092P6
The small are perfect at 2mm thick and doesn't raise the height of the keyboard. And you can use them on your desk drawers, kitchen cupboards, etc.
-
If you found 55g too heavy down-force for sustained use, did you find another Topre switch that was more acceptable?
After thinking the 55g 87UB was 'the' keyboard, I found it was too demanding for me. I transitioned to an MX Red keyboard, which took a while to get used to after 55g Topres. The Red KB feels good, but I miss the feel of Topres--it should be Tokyo Press(ure). Once the feel of the key switch gets into your DNA, it hangs on like 'Alien'. So, you've found the 55g switch too much, did you try the 45g or variable 87U? And if so, which of the two lighter KBs did you prefer. I want another 87U, but can't decide on which one to get between a variable and uniform 45g.
I used to have a 45g, but sold it to get the 55g. So it goes. But I've never owned a variable 87U.
-
If you found 55g too heavy down-force for sustained use, did you find another Topre switch that was more acceptable?
After thinking the 55g 87UB was 'the' keyboard, I found it was too demanding for me. I transitioned to an MX Red keyboard, which took a while to get used to after 55g Topres. The Red KB feels good, but I miss the feel of Topres--it should be Tokyo Press(ure). Once the feel of the key switch gets into your DNA, it hangs on like 'Alien'. So, you've found the 55g switch too much, did you try the 45g or variable 87U? And if so, which of the two lighter KBs did you prefer. I want another 87U, but can't decide on which one to get between a variable and uniform 45g.
I used to have a 45g, but sold it to get the 55g. So it goes. But I've never owned a variable 87U.
Always uniform, imo.
-
I already don't like Topre for gaming but variable Topre is even worse for gaming..
BUT, that said, for typing it is actually quite good. Very easy on the hands...It takes awhile to get used to resting your hands on the keys...when I'm thinking more than a few aaaaaaaaaa type things come out. You really notice the load on your hands when you go back to a Topre uniform board and you realize how much more work your pinky finger does on a uniform. It really is personal preference though..some people hate it. I find I like both but that if I had to use the keyboard for long periods of time, I think the variable just makes it that much easier on my fingers...
-
I bought a 45-gram Topre, but it didn't get the job done. So it goes.