Update to Group Buys and Preorders Subforum

[user 18]

We've made an addition to the rules for the Group Buys and Preorders subforum. Under the new rules, Group Buy runners who advertise their buy on Geekhack must post all updates here, even if those updates are also posted on another site, or distributed using some other service.

This change to the rules does not mandate any schedule for providing updates. It does not require that updates given on Geekhack are different from updates given elsewhere (i.e. copy-paste is fine). The intent of this change is that a member who joins a group buy on Geekhack is able to receive all updates for the buy on Geekhack if they choose.

Feedback on this change is welcomed, we are listening.


The complete set of requirements for the Group Buys and Preorders subforum can be found here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88717.0

[xondat]

I guess it makes sense, but GH is completely useless when PMs are down.

What about situations where there is a small amount of people in a buy, and all of them are in (for example) a Discord server for updates?

[user 18]

I guess it makes sense, but GH is completely useless when PMs are down.

What about situations where there is a small amount of people in a buy, and all of them are in (for example) a Discord server for updates?

PMs don't affect this rule -- although I understand it's hugely inconvenient when they're down. If you're trying to get in touch with specific people (which is what I assume you want PMs for), I don't think it particularly matters how you do it, whether it's by PM, email, or some other form of offsite communication -- whatever is best for the people you're trying to contact. If you're posting an update for everyone, that should be posted in the group buy thread, not exclusively sent out by PM.

If you want to use your Discord server, that's fine. But please copy/paste updates over to the GB thread as well.

[xondat]

What about situations where there is a small amount of people in a buy, and all of them are in (for example) a Discord server for updates?

If you want to use your Discord server, that's fine. But please copy/paste updates over to the GB thread as well.

The intent of this change is that a member who joins a group buy on Geekhack is able to receive all updates for the buy on Geekhack if they choose.

Say there are 10 people in a buy, and all 10 agree they'd rather have updates on Discord rather than Geekhack, would the ruling still apply?

Wasn't precise enough Just want to make sure I understand it fully.


Also does this apply to currently active buys, or just any new buys in the future?

[user 18]

What about situations where there is a small amount of people in a buy, and all of them are in (for example) a Discord server for updates?

If you want to use your Discord server, that's fine. But please copy/paste updates over to the GB thread as well.

The intent of this change is that a member who joins a group buy on Geekhack is able to receive all updates for the buy on Geekhack if they choose.

Say there are 10 people in a buy, and all 10 agree they'd rather have updates on Discord rather than Geekhack, would the ruling still apply?

Wasn't precise enough Just want to make sure I understand it fully.


Also does this apply to currently active buys, or just any new buys in the future?

It applies to currently running buys. You don't necessarily have to go and retrieve updates you've already given somewhere else, but next time you're giving updates, please add a copy here as well.

That's a good point you raise about if all participants in a buy would prefer to have updates elsewhere. It's not something we discussed as a mod team -- I'll bring it up. My personal opinion is that it's better to have the updates here anyway. When I'm considering joining a GB, and I'm potentially nervous about the organizer, I'll sometimes skim through the threads for other buys they've run (if they exist), and see how communicative they were, and how they responded to issues that arose through the GB process. I think it's beneficial to the community to have a publicly available record of all of those updates.

E: Until I've been able to chat about it with some of the other mods, let's assume for now that there won't be any exceptions to the rule. If that changes, the sticky in the GB subforum will be updated to reflect it, and I'll also post about it here.

[xondat]

What about situations where there is a small amount of people in a buy, and all of them are in (for example) a Discord server for updates?

If you want to use your Discord server, that's fine. But please copy/paste updates over to the GB thread as well.

The intent of this change is that a member who joins a group buy on Geekhack is able to receive all updates for the buy on Geekhack if they choose.

Say there are 10 people in a buy, and all 10 agree they'd rather have updates on Discord rather than Geekhack, would the ruling still apply?

Wasn't precise enough Just want to make sure I understand it fully.


Also does this apply to currently active buys, or just any new buys in the future?

It applies to currently running buys. You don't necessarily have to go and retrieve updates you've already given somewhere else, but next time you're giving updates, please add a copy here as well.

That's a good point you raise about if all participants in a buy would prefer to have updates elsewhere. It's not something we discussed as a mod team -- I'll bring it up. My personal opinion is that it's better to have the updates here anyway. When I'm considering joining a GB, and I'm potentially nervous about the organizer, I'll sometimes skim through the threads for other buys they've run (if they exist), and see how communicative they were, and how they responded to issues that arose through the GB process. I think it's beneficial to the community to have a publicly available record of all of those updates.

E: Until I've been able to chat about it with some of the other mods, let's assume for now that there won't be any exceptions to the rule. If that changes, the sticky in the GB subforum will be updated to reflect it, and I'll also post about it here.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarifications.

I completely understand that side of the argument; makes a lot of sense for the long term.

[user 18]

That's a good point you raise about if all participants in a buy would prefer to have updates elsewhere. It's not something we discussed as a mod team -- I'll bring it up. My personal opinion is that it's better to have the updates here anyway. When I'm considering joining a GB, and I'm potentially nervous about the organizer, I'll sometimes skim through the threads for other buys they've run (if they exist), and see how communicative they were, and how they responded to issues that arose through the GB process. I think it's beneficial to the community to have a publicly available record of all of those updates.

E: Until I've been able to chat about it with some of the other mods, let's assume for now that there won't be any exceptions to the rule. If that changes, the sticky in the GB subforum will be updated to reflect it, and I'll also post about it here.

Following up on this point, we've now discussed as a mod team. There will not be exceptions made, even if all GB participants prefer to get their updates elsewhere, for the reasons previously mentioned.

[riotonthebay]

I'd like some clarification on what it means to "advertise your buy on GH." Does it boil down to, "If you post in the Group Buys subforum, you must post all future updates in that thread as well?" Or does advertising include making an IC thread or putting a link in your signature? For instance, if I open an Interest Check and at the end of the thread, lock it with a post saying "this buy will be run on this other platform, here's a link," am I obligated to post all updates on GH because I've used it as a platform to advertise my buy?

I think this is a very good rule in general that just requires a bit of clarification. 

[user 18]

I'd like some clarification on what it means to "advertise your buy on GH." Does it boil down to, "If you post in the Group Buys subforum, you must post all future updates in that thread as well?" Or does advertising include making an IC thread or putting a link in your signature? For instance, if I open an Interest Check and at the end of the thread, lock it with a post saying "this buy will be run on this other platform, here's a link," am I obligated to post all updates on GH because I've used it as a platform to advertise my buy?

I think this is a very good rule in general that just requires a bit of clarification. 

This rule is specific to threads in the Group Buys and Preorders subforum, it only applies to people who start threads in that section.

In the situation you propose, there would be no issue, since you've used the IC subforum for its intended purpose (checking interest, gathering feedback), and made the location change clear. What would be an issue is if you didn't lock the IC thread, and continued updating that thread once you were taking orders, or if you started a GB thread and abandoned it before the buy was complete. It's the second case in particular that this rule change is designed to prevent.


More generally, rules for Interest Checks are unchanged -- once you're ready to start accepting orders (or taking money for any reason), the IC thread should be locked, with an indication of where users can go for future discussion. If you as the GB runner have decided at that time that you don't want to run the GB through GH, and would rather just do it on Massdrop, or DT, or somewhere else, that's fine, just link people over there when you lock the thread. But if you're running the GB on some other platform, and also maintaining a GB thread here, you need to continue to update that thread until the buy is complete and everyone has received their order.

[riotonthebay]

Thanks for the clarity! I think this is a good change and will hopefully create more accountability for folks who choose to run their buys on GH.

[Puddsy]

Thanks for the clarity! I think this is a good change and will hopefully create more accountability for folks who choose to run their buys on GH.

 

[xondat]

Yep. That was going to be my next question.

Thanks very much user 18/mod team.

[Photoelectric]

We have amended the Group Buys and Preorders rules and information post again to reflect the current community discussion regarding off-site communication about group buys.  The rules now more explicitly request that group buy organizers post all updates in the group buy thread and if they wish to provide an off-site chat platform, that it would be made optional. 

Link to the post:   https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88717.0

Old text:
"Members who start threads here must continue to provide updates in the thread they have started until the conclusion of the group buy, even if updates are also posted somewhere else."

New text:
"geekhack.org is a community of keyboard enthusiasts and not simply an advertising platform for keyboard-related sales.  Thus we request that any group buy organizers who post their group buy threads in this section also provide updates in the thread they have started until the conclusion of the group buy, even if updates are also posted somewhere else.  Group buy threads made here are for group buy progress discussion as well as open discussion of any quality control issues.   If a group buy organizer decides to provide an off-site instant message chat option for faster order support (for example Discord), any such communication needs to be optional when it comes to non-sensitive* order information.

*Reminder to group buy organizers and participants: please do not post personally identifying information in the discussion threads, such as personal names, addresses, contact information, etc.--either in text or in photographs."