[IC] Hubble Mira Custom TKL (GB is 3... 2... 1... launched!)

[logomachy]

Don't know if this sounds silly, but would it perhaps be for the best to remove the Mira engraving from the front?

I'm fine with this if only because I'll never be able to unsee O'MIRA.

[techmattr]

i want to give you an accurate response, but i still have questions, man.

are the prices in the poll "kit" prices - like, including pcb, any miscellaneous electrical parts, stabilizers, zealios, etc? or is this just price for the case and mid-plate?

if this is not going to be a "kit," it's still not clear to me what pcbs are supported, or where we can source them from

The poll is asking what you would pay for a kit.
That would include the housing as well as pcb with presoldered controllers and SMD components.

Stabilisers, switches, etc are not included.

Looks like a lot more at $400 than I expected to see, especially since you worded it as the maximum you'd be willing to pay.

Perhaps send a PM to the people that pre-ordered but haven't voted yet?

Yeah I find that pretty surprising as well. I was under the impression the goal was to get the board close to $400 if possible but understanding it would be more like $450-$500. That is what I figured from the beginning.

[Photoelectric]

Don't know if this sounds silly, but would it perhaps be for the best to remove the Mira engraving from the front?

I'm fine with this if only because I'll never be able to unsee O'MIRA.

I would vote to keep an engraving.  If enough people dislike it, I'd vote to still keep *something* there, either "Mira" or the two disks for the binary system.  Could do two disks at the present location and the word "Mira" on the rear, like for LZ-GH.

[asdfjkl36]

I really don't see the o'MIRA thing

It's a circle, rather than an O

But either way, i like it as well

[HPE1000]

I really like the engraving so I would hate for that to go

+ it cant save THAT much money to get rid of, so probably not worth it

[ocodo]

No logo on the front would be an improvement.  I hope we can poll this, I think it would be far classier to be logo free on the front.

Has to reduce machining costs too, right?

[hoggy]

I'd vote for the Mira engraving on the back, too. 

I would prefer to lose the Oo engraving from the top, as we have the rather nice insert on the bottom of the case.

The case looks best when viewed from the side looking slightly down, that could be a good place for a subtle logo...

[hwood34]

No logo on the front would be an improvement.  I hope we can poll this, I think it would be far classier to be logo free on the front.

Has to reduce machining costs too, right?

Reduce them a bit, but honestly nothing worth totally removing it over

[HoffmanMyster]

Could do two disks at the present location and the word "Mira" on the rear, like for LZ-GH.

I am not currently committed to this buy, but am very interested, money permitting.  What Photo said here is my suggestion as well, for whatever it's worth as a current bystander.

[FrostyToast]

Could do two disks at the present location and the word "Mira" on the rear, like for LZ-GH.

I am not currently committed to this buy, but am very interested, money permitting.  What Photo said here is my suggestion as well, for whatever it's worth as a current bystander.

A rear engraving would add too much to the cost for the exact reason why we changed the USB hole; we would have to flip the case on its side during the milling process.

[HoffmanMyster]

Could do two disks at the present location and the word "Mira" on the rear, like for LZ-GH.

I am not currently committed to this buy, but am very interested, money permitting.  What Photo said here is my suggestion as well, for whatever it's worth as a current bystander.

A rear engraving would add too much to the cost for the exact reason why we changed the USB hole; we would have to flip the case on its side during the milling process.

But it would look cool. 

[FrostyToast]

Could do two disks at the present location and the word "Mira" on the rear, like for LZ-GH.

I am not currently committed to this buy, but am very interested, money permitting.  What Photo said here is my suggestion as well, for whatever it's worth as a current bystander.

A rear engraving would add too much to the cost for the exact reason why we changed the USB hole; we would have to flip the case on its side during the milling process.

But it would look cool. 

It would look cool but not cool enough to justify the cost.
I'm not comfortable making petty changes that would result in everyone having to pay a higher price; even for those who didn't want those changes.

[Photoelectric]

Forget I said anything about the engraving then!  Definitely nice to have one.

[FrostyToast]

Forget I said anything about the engraving then!  Definitely nice to have one.

I definitely respect the idea but right now our primary issue is trying to lower the cost and unfortunately adding to the design isn't an option.
I have an LZ myself and the rear engraving is pretty sick. Though that's not an option we can take.

I myself find that the engravings on cases adds a little bit of personality to the board. Most boards have some sort of engraving to give them a distinctive look.

[ika]

Just caught up the last few days worth of posts; thanks to ninjadoc for putting in all this hard work! I can't fathom the amount of work that has been done behind-the-scenes here to get this project moving. While all the small changes do affect the aesthetic of the board (the reason why I was attracted to it in the first place), do what you have to do to make the price a reality and get popular support behind the keyboard to bring the price down. The side profile of the case already makes it quite distinctive; anything else is a cherry on top.

[fi0x]

From what I understood. The first 57 Pre Order will get the Gold Stabs as that was part of the "perks" of being in the first 57.

What does this mean?

In order to produce a prototype for the Mira and secure a production run in the future we need to put money down with the CNC company we have chosen. Instead of asking for donations from a few people I think it would be better that we offer some benefits to everyone on GeekHack who chooses to help produce the Mira!

What it costs: $40 down towards the full purchase of the Mira

What you get in return:

    You reserve your spot in the first 57 units that will include gold stabs
    The opportunity to specify which number you would like engraved on your custom center weight (more on this below). Non-pre orders will receive their number in order of purchase, i.e. no say in the matter.
    Priority for the limited number of boards that will be offered with full assembly
    Pre-orders will ship first regardless of location and the total volume of the full production run
    A thank you note from me in the mail with some custom stickers    )

Zealios on the other hand was not specified in the initial op, only teased that Zeal was contributing to the project with his then new project of his own (Zealios). Whether that was gonna be provided for the project or if it was another purchase/package-with-extra-price was not completely clarified; I assumed it was a separate purchase on top of the Mira in the same package (another price concern for me).
I think the Mira with all the cost-cutting changes still looks amazing. Personally if the weight for the board will not be visible to the eye the engraving on it is optional to me. I do not know how much that will cut the costs though, I doubt much at all.
Perhaps a list could be made of all the aesthetic parts that will increase or cut costs and let the users (and more importantly the first 57 Pre-buyers) decide whether it is worth cutting that cost or retaining the aesthetic appeal or the aesthetic define of the Mira.

I live in Vancouver and I lament the state of the Canadian dollar. I dread the state of my wallet and bank account the day Mira comes to fruition.  T_T


Hubble despite all the mishaps, Thank you for bringing us this project! You have done something impactful in your life, for us with great intentions, which is something I have yet to do. XD


Huge thanks to FrostyToast, Ninjadoc, ZealPC, and all other uncredited people behind the scenes. This project would not get to where it's at without all of you!


And remember

[Steezus]

More

From what I understood. The first 57 Pre Order will get the Gold Stabs as that was part of the "perks" of being in the first 57.

What does this mean?

In order to produce a prototype for the Mira and secure a production run in the future we need to put money down with the CNC company we have chosen. Instead of asking for donations from a few people I think it would be better that we offer some benefits to everyone on GeekHack who chooses to help produce the Mira!

What it costs: $40 down towards the full purchase of the Mira

What you get in return:

    You reserve your spot in the first 57 units that will include gold stabs
    The opportunity to specify which number you would like engraved on your custom center weight (more on this below). Non-pre orders will receive their number in order of purchase, i.e. no say in the matter.
    Priority for the limited number of boards that will be offered with full assembly
    Pre-orders will ship first regardless of location and the total volume of the full production run
    A thank you note from me in the mail with some custom stickers    )

Zealios on the other hand was not specified in the initial op, only teased that Zeal was contributing to the project with his then new project of his own (Zealios). Whether that was gonna be provided for the project or if it was another purchase/package-with-extra-price was not completely clarified; I assumed it was a separate purchase on top of the Mira in the same package (another price concern for me).
I think the Mira with all the cost-cutting changes still looks amazing. Personally if the weight for the board will not be visible to the eye the engraving on it is optional to me. I do not know how much that will cut the costs though, I doubt much at all.
Perhaps a list could be made of all the aesthetic parts that will increase or cut costs and let the users (and more importantly the first 57 Pre-buyers) decide whether it is worth cutting that cost or retaining the aesthetic appeal or the aesthetic define of the Mira.

I live in Vancouver and I lament the state of the Canadian dollar. I dread the state of my wallet and bank account the day Mira comes to fruition.  T_T
(Attachment Link)

Hubble despite all the mishaps, Thank you for bringing us this project! You have done something impactful in your life, for us with great intentions, which is something I have yet to do. XD
(Attachment Link)

Huge thanks to FrostyToast, Ninjadoc, ZealPC, and all other uncredited people behind the scenes. This project would not get to where it's at without all of you!
(Attachment Link)

And remember
(Attachment Link)

Thought this was one of Vesper's notorious half page posts...

[romevi]

Amazing how this board and eventual GB is turning out!

However, as for me, the older I get in this hobby the more I realize I don't need more than one MX TKL. So, even though I fought for my number, I'm now offering my spot.

PM me if you're interested. I know I'll kick myself once these are assembled in people's homes.
CLAIMED

My spot #27 has been claimed by patchworks. Not sure what all needs to be done to modify the spreadsheet, or who's in charge of it now.

[FrostyToast]

Amazing how this board and eventual GB is turning out!

However, as for me, the older I get in this hobby the more I realize I don't need more than one MX TKL. So, even though I fought for my number, I'm now offering my spot.

PM me if you're interested. I know I'll kick myself once these are assembled in people's homes.
CLAIMED

My spot #27 has been claimed by patchworks. Not sure what all needs to be done to modify the spreadsheet, or who's in charge of it now.

Awesome I can make that change!
Sorry to see you leave us but I'm glad that some other lucky soul can be a part of this buy!

[romevi]

Amazing how this board and eventual GB is turning out!

However, as for me, the older I get in this hobby the more I realize I don't need more than one MX TKL. So, even though I fought for my number, I'm now offering my spot.

PM me if you're interested. I know I'll kick myself once these are assembled in people's homes.
CLAIMED

My spot #27 has been claimed by patchworks. Not sure what all needs to be done to modify the spreadsheet, or who's in charge of it now.

Awesome I can make that change!
Sorry to see you leave us but I'm glad that some other lucky soul can be a part of this buy!

It brings tears to my eyes, and not good ones. 
That number too was pretty personal, but in the end I realize I don't need more than one MX TKL. Heck--I wouldn't even know what switches to put in it.
Lately, I've been focusing on having one keyboard of a switch type per layout size, and, as I already have a TKL with MX switches, alas I do not need another. 

[MythicalWagyu]

Oooops, didn't mean to leave out Frosty Toast, Zeal and anyone else that has been working hard to make this happen - <3 you guys too!

My vote would be to keep the logo on the front, I still think it looks cool.

[Steezus]

I think people are being a bit stingy with their money when it comes to the voting. I don't see why people are choosing $400 as their max limit when there have been plenty of other kits that have gone for more. To the people that voted, you wouldn't even fork over an extra $50 to get the keyboard? So anything over $400 and you're just calling it quits.

[jdcarpe]

I voted for 450. I think that's a good price for a kit like this, but much over 500 and I'd probably pass. I've paid 450 plus shipping for kits like this before, and feel that's a fair price. Even if every part had to be made in China to get it at 450, I'm fine with that.

[Steezus]

I voted for 450. I think that's a good price for a kit like this, but much over 500 and I'd probably pass. I've paid 450 plus shipping for kits like this before, and feel that's a fair price. Even if every part had to be made in China to get it at 450, I'm fine with that.

I voted for $450 as well, I think that is more than fair. I still don't really see myself letting an extra $25-$50 stop me from getting this board either but anything past $450 for me is where it starts to hurt the wallet. )

[Patchwrks]

I went to 500. After assembly and shipping my lzgh was around 540 and I was happy to pay that.

[KaminKevCrew]

I voted for 450. I think that's a good price for a kit like this, but much over 500 and I'd probably pass. I've paid 450 plus shipping for kits like this before, and feel that's a fair price. Even if every part had to be made in China to get it at 450, I'm fine with that.

I voted for $450 as well, I think that is more than fair. I still don't really see myself letting an extra $25-$50 stop me from getting this board either but anything past $450 for me is where it starts to hurt the wallet. )

I went for $500. I paid $470 for the LZ-RV, so I'm willing to pay something similar for this board.

[FrostyToast]

I voted for $500+
Gonna be embarrassing if I don't buy this board.  )

[theginginator]

I went for $450 but an extra 25 -50 for this beauty wont kill me, the wife might tho  )

[roostrc0gburn]

i think we should try for $400, but it seems like a split majority is willing to pay $450. i voted $400, but if we don't hit that price point, it doesnt mean i'm pulling out. we've come to far to stop now

[Steezus]

i think we should try for $400, but it seems like a split majority is willing to pay $450. i voted $400, but if we don't hit that price point, it doesnt mean i'm pulling out. we've come to far to stop now

Well the poll is for "What is the *maximum* price you would pay for a Mira keyboard?" Obviously everybody wants it as cheap as possible.

[FrostyToast]

I don't know if people realise the difference between what they are willing to pay for the board and what they want to pay for the board.

[Photoelectric]

Originally the estimate was around $400.  That doesn't include switches and whatever other small things like LEDs, stickers, whatever.  At least a number of people, including myself, joined and planned for approximately that budget.  That seems to be the budget we should be going for, at least for those dozens of us who've made the initial investment.  If it's more, then you could make a poll about how many can afford the higher price.  That'd be better rather than making this poll open to anyone who's not even seriously considered joining yet.  Can make a google docs type form poll with a  submission, so those who've joined already can enter with their user name and e-mail address and all that.

[KaminKevCrew]

Originally the estimate was around $400.  That doesn't include switches and whatever other small things like LEDs, stickers, whatever.  At least a number of people, including myself, joined and planned for approximately that budget.  That seems to be the budget we should be going for, at least for those dozens of us who've made the initial investment.  If it's more, then you could make a poll about how many can afford the higher price.  That'd be better rather than making this poll open to anyone who's not even seriously considered joining yet.  Can make a google docs type form poll with a  submission, so those who've joined already can enter with their user name and e-mail address and all that.

I have number 47 reserved, and I have no issues with a $500 price point for this board.

[ninjadoc]

I voted for 450. I think that's a good price for a kit like this, but much over 500 and I'd probably pass. I've paid 450 plus shipping for kits like this before, and feel that's a fair price. Even if every part had to be made in China to get it at 450, I'm fine with that.

I'm trying to find the cutoff point that people will tolerate. At this point I have $1500+ of my money in a group buy that is not even mine. I wanted to see a this produced but I'm not going to subsidize everyone getting a keyboard. Let me do a separate post.

[ninjadoc]

Originally the estimate was around $400.  That doesn't include switches and whatever other small things like LEDs, stickers, whatever.  At least a number of people, including myself, joined and planned for approximately that budget.  That seems to be the budget we should be going for, at least for those dozens of us who've made the initial investment.  If it's more, then you could make a poll about how many can afford the higher price.  That'd be better rather than making this poll open to anyone who's not even seriously considered joining yet.  Can make a google docs type form poll with a  submission, so those who've joined already can enter with their user name and e-mail address and all that.

What I'm looking for with the poll is what everyone's comfort level is. Naming a price for an item without knowing the cost of production is not a good way to produce an item.

[fi0x]

I voted for $400 since I'm on a rather tight budget. The thing for me is as I mentioned, the Canadian dollar. If this is in USD than $400 would be (with the current rate of 1.35) $540, $450 would be $607.5, $500 would be $675, etc.
Now if were talking $450 Canadian, please, no problem.... But anything over $540 Canadian for me as a first time custom keyboard is not worth it. That's half a thousand dollars guys. HALF A THOUSAND! Thats almost a months worth of pay. I have a part-time job and am also in school. Money doesn't come very easily as I want or hope it t, Otherwise $500 USD bring it on.
As Photoelectric puts it, many of us joined and planned for approximately the budget provided, which is my current comfort level, as the current exchange rate gives me nightmares.

[ninjadoc]

Let me do this so everyone understands the cost of making this keyboard

price to produce an unfinished (not sandblasted or anodized) keyboard
Shipping of all the unfinished keyboards to the sandblaster
Cost of sandblasting
Shipping from sandblaster to the shop that anodizes the keyboard
Anodizing the keyboard
Shipping of the keyboard to me

Production of the keyboard plate
Shipping the keyboard plate to me

Production of the PCB
Shipping of the PCB to me

Purchasing all the screws to assemble the keyboard
Shipping and tax on all the screws to assemble the keyboard

Purchasing all the 3M feet for the keyboard

Purchasing all the bubble wrap, foam wrap, boxes,and tape to pack all the keyboards

Getting everyone's order together, finalizing shipping and paypal fees, shipping everything once its been paid for

This does not include gas, my time arranging all this, many hours spent with shops, getting to bid stage and companies withdrawing, going to meet people at shops and them not being there, me sitting on a freeway for 4 hours one day because of an accident that closed the freeway, etc. This also doesn't include failed anodizing, failed cerakote, boards at shops for powdercoating for weeks, and similar fruitless trials to see what could be done to produce this.

More to it than some of you thought, I expect. I'm trying to get it to $400 but truly I have no idea what it will be. I believe the last few changes will decrease the cost dramatically but until it's done I won't know.

I, Frosty, Zeal, and others had nothing to do with Hubble's initial quote on the Mira. Once I get a price utilizing all of the above I will post it, possibly in a poll, to see how many are willing to purchase it at that cost. If it is below the MOQ of the shop producing the board or the anodizer's willingness to anodize the boards at a reasonable cost I will call an end to this group buy. I've spent to much time and effort on this and every corner that can be cut has been done to try to reduce the price. I think that covers everything i can say at this point. I will ask Frosty if he has anything he would like to add.

[radio_killah]

What a mess. I am sorry you had to go through all of that mess. I hope you at least can take what you learned as a positive.

[meiosis]

Oh. Ninja

[romevi]

Did the $40 deposit everyone pitched in go toward getting the samples?

[user 18]

Did the $40 deposit everyone pitched in go toward getting the samples?

Yes

[jdcarpe]

Ideally you would want to have the cases and plates milled by the same shop. Then, at the same or another shop, have it all media blasted and anodized in the same batches, so the colors will be sure to match. That also cuts down on the number of moves, and shipping costs, opportunities for damage, etc. But I'm sure you know this already.

But yes, any time you organize a group buy things will always be more expensive than initially planned, due to things like shipping things between locations, PayPal fees on every transaction, and such.

[FrostyToast]

Ideally you would want to have the cases and plates milled by the same shop. Then, at the same or another shop, have it all media blasted and anodized in the same batches, so the colors will be sure to match. That also cuts down on the number of moves, and shipping costs, opportunities for damage, etc. But I'm sure you know this already.

But yes, any time you organize a group buy things will always be more expensive than initially planned, due to things like shipping things between locations, PayPal fees on every transaction, and such.

We are using different shops for finishing and such because the milling shop cannot offer acceptable quality for the boards.

Also, on the subject of the logo, the thing costs 5 bucks to do. Anyone who wants to remove it due to price concerns should no longer be worried.

[BaconEggandCheeseBagel]

Is the limitation with finding an appropriate shop due to keeping production within CA? Would it be possible to find someone state side to act as a shipping proxy and perhaps reduce cost if there would be more options in terms of production locations?

[meiosis]

Did the $40 deposit everyone pitched in go toward getting the samples?

Yes

Most

[Steezus]

Is the limitation with finding an appropriate shop due to keeping production within CA? Would it be possible to find someone state side to act as a shipping proxy and perhaps reduce cost if there would be more options in terms of production locations?

The whole purpose was to find have it made in America. Still having difficulty finding a machine shop that can produce them for a moderate price.

[Patchwrks]

How much interest would theoretically be necessary to make this GB a reality?

[Steezus]

How much interest would theoretically be necessary to make this GB a reality?

Interest isn't the problem, there's plenty of that. It's about getting the machine hours down to reduce the cost.

[toidbb]

How much interest would theoretically be necessary to make this GB a reality?

I think that this is beyond IC at this point, unless the folks that already had a slot in the original first go, are not the only ones capable of purchasing one. Which at this point it seems like it may be....

If I am wrong, I will take one

[Patchwrks]

How much interest would theoretically be necessary to make this GB a reality?

I think that this is beyond IC at this point, unless the folks that already had a slot in the original first go, are not the only ones capable of purchasing one. Which at this point it seems like it may be....

If I am wrong, I will take one

from what i understand, there *was* going to be a limited run of 100 units produced and only the first 57 would be able to have a say in what number is engraved into their weight.