Topre switch keyboard owner: Are you satisfied?

[toffz]

As far as I can tell every geekhacker who have had their hands on a keyboard with Topre's switches, seem to be generally satisfied with the switches. Are here anyone who thinks that the money spent wasn't worth it?

Generally I have been very satisfied first with my Das III and then later with Customizer 105. But as long as I have been a geekhack member, I have been wondering how the Topre switches would feel. And now a finnish webstore (http://www.verkkokauppa.com) has become a Topre reseller making it far too easy for me to order a 105 key version of the Realforce less than 200 euros.

So I'm trying to convince myself that if I decide to buy the Realforce that will be my last keyboard I will buy. Has a keyboard with Topre's switches stopped your desire to still buy a new keyboard with different switches?

[kyamei]

I bought a Topre board in each of the main formats (full, tenkeyless, compact) and I am pretty much done with buying keyboards now.  The only thing that caught my interest was the all 55g version, but I think that's probably too heavy for my tastes so I passed.  Been debating if I should sell off all my other boards, they aren't going to be used much if at all.

I love Topres, but it's not for everyone.  Your mileage may vary.

[leos]

Topre is at the time the best you can get (my opinion) . The key feeling and the sound is just amazing. a friend who work now there he will brought one to me next month.

[leos]

I bought a Topre board in each of the main formats (full, tenkeyless, compact) and I am pretty much done with buying keyboards now.  The only thing that caught my interest was the all 55g version, but I think that's probably too heavy for my tastes so I passed.  Been debating if I should sell off all my other boards, they aren't going to be used much if at all.

I love Topres, but it's not for everyone.  Your mileage may vary.

it depends where you live. I write in differed languages and the 105 european key layout fits perfectly for this purpose.

[xyzzy]

I'm trying to convince myself that if I decide to buy the [random keyboard name] that will be my last keyboard I will buy.

This is something most of the geekhackers here do everyday.

And no, it's not working.

[AndrewZorn]

yes it is a rubber dome but it is very smooth and satisfying
but the switch itself probably not worth double price to most

however
the associated build quality with the topre boards (POM, dye sub, overall) makes it worth it

EDIT in case im being unclear,
if it was just topre switches in a filco board, id say it would be worth only a little more than a cherry filco
but the other-than-switches quality is just amazing on the topre boards

[itlnstln]

It happens.

I haven't bought a keyboard with different switches since March.  I just bought a new Cherry (with browns), but only because it was $24 shipped.  I probably wouldn't have bought it otherwise.  For intents and purposes, I have pretty much stopped buying keyboards.  I still haven't tried a Topre yet, but I am not going to jump in without trying one first.

[Rajagra]

I got both of my Topre keyboards at a good price, with accessories, but even so they were a substantial investment. And I have no regrets, they are great.

I was happy with my DAS III too. I don't use it any more though, the full size width is just too annoying now that I've seen the light.

I was less enamoured with my Customizer. Buckling springs aren't my personal favourite. That might be cause for concern for you. If you really like buckling springs, the Topres are very different so might not be to your taste. And switching between them might be harmful to muscle memory.

[didjamatic]

Love my Topre Realforce 103u, love my cherry browns.

At first I wasn't sure about either, but I had been on bucking spring IBM's that were much stiffer, louder and longer travel than these.  Once I adjusted, they're like butter and my WPM increased.  I can type faster on the Topres.

I think I will likely swap between the two for quite some time.  I really like them both and am thinking of getting a 2nd Realforce with a 10key.

Worth the money?  I think so.  But If I had an absolute max budget of $250 so I had to choose between having a rubber dome at work and a topre at home  Vs.  a Cherry at work and a Cherry at home... I would take 2 cherry browns.

As it is, I'm using Cherry Browns at work, Topre at home and loving every minute of it.

[rdjack21]

So I'm trying to convince myself that if I decide to buy the Realforce that will be my last keyboard I will buy. Has a keyboard with Topre's switches stopped your desire to still buy a new keyboard with different switches?

Now that is a tough question and really it depends on you. As for me let see.....

First Topre was the 87U since then I have purchased 5 more Topre boards but until last week I had not purchased anything other than Topre switches in them. Why did I get a non Topre board well I'm on a kinda small keyboard hunt and found a couple I could not pass up because either it was rare or unique in some fashion.

[patrickgeekhack]

Worth the money?  I think so.  But If I had an absolute max budget of $250 so I had to choose between having a rubber dome at work and a topre at home  Vs.  a Cherry at work and a Cherry at home... I would take 2 cherry browns.

I think I would do the same thing too.

As it is, I'm using Cherry Browns at work, Topre at home and loving every minute of it.

This is my current situation.

I have not regretted my $250 spent on this keyboard. If anything, the more I use it, the more I think they were money well spent, especially since I started typing with a very light touch. However, to truly feel that keyboard, you need to give it time. Don't form an opinion right form the first day. The only problem is that it's not very easy to get your hands on one to try before deciding.

[alpslover]

As far as I can tell every geekhacker who have had their hands on a keyboard with Topre's switches, seem to be generally satisfied with the switches. Are here anyone who thinks that the money spent wasn't worth it?

i dislike the varied key weighting of most realforce keyboards, i think it's an answer to a question nobody asked.  as far as the switches themselves, they're not bad, and are pretty good as far as rubber dome type switches go.

i'm ambivalent about the build quality.  the case halves on the realforce 101 are snapped together (no screws) and the font printing on the keys is inconsistent.  not what i would classify as 'high quality'.  yet there are nice subtle details, like the up arrow key being of an angle more 'natural' for the arrow cluster, rather than being the same angle as the other keys on that row, and the '0' key on the number pad being convex rather than concave so your thumb is more comfortable hitting it.

overall, i do not think a realforce is worth over $200.  $100-$125, maybe.  but since all of the keyboards using topre switches are north of $200, you've got no choice but to shell out the money if the topre feel is what you like, so 'worth' perhaps has less importance in this case than, say, with cherry switches, where you can ask 'is it worth it to spend $140 for a filco when i can get a scorpius m10 for $50'.

[itlnstln]

Worth the money? I think so. But If I had an absolute max budget of $250 so I had to choose between having a rubber dome at work and a topre at home Vs. a Cherry at work and a Cherry at home... I would take 2 cherry browns.

This is what I have done.  Not so much because of the budget but due to the cost of a Topre 'board.  I now have 2 Cherry brown 'boards at work (one for my main rig, one for the lappy), and one at home.

[GenEric35]

something that keeps coming back a lot in this thread is using cherry browns at work, I guess the main reason is they are less clicky therefor less noisy? is this the main reason of using the cherry brown at work, what type of work do you do, text writting, data entry, programming, support?

I am currently using an ABS M1 at work and it's a great upgrade from the previous keyboard I was using there(rubber dome dell), but the ABS M1 can be a bit noisy(tops out and has a ringing sound) even if it uses non clicky switches.

I find i work faster when my coworkers are not in the office and I can go 'all out' on the keyboard'. In my case we are two in the same office with a part time 3rd, are you using those cherry browns in a shared office or cubicles?

what brands of keyboard do you use for cherry browns? I don't own a filco but it seems like they are not the most solid build, and typing on something that feels cheap annoys me constantly, are you using a Cherry board, i think those have a steel backplate?

I've got a hhkb pro2 shipping, for coding and development work but i'm hesitating carrying it every day between work and home, fear of dropping it, and at the same time i'm not sure I would leave this hhkb alone at work every night as it does look like something expensive and easy to get stolen.

[ch_123]

No idea where you got the "Filcos are badly built" thing, they're probably the best built Cherry board out there, possibly with the only exception of Cherry's really old G80-1000 boards.

Browns are used by people at work because, like you guessed, they are much quieter than other mechanical switches. Topres are quieter though.

[GenEric35]

No idea where you got the "Filcos are badly built" thing, they're probably the best built Cherry board out there, possibly with the only exception of Cherry's really old G80-1000 boards.

Browns are used by people at work because, like you guessed, they are much quieter than other mechanical switches. Topres are quieter though.

I got the idea the filco were cheap from all the reviews on the keys that are thin, rattle a lot, wear after only a day, not to mention all the pictures of melted filco keys lol.

[ch_123]

I got the idea the filco were cheap from all the reviews on the keys that are thin, rattle a lot, wear after only a day,

A lot of that stuff is overexaggerated. The rattle isn't something particularly obvious or obtrusive unlike, for example, in the Dell AT101W. Truth is that the alternatives have similar problems, and worse (Cherry G80 for example has a load of flex in the case, and no backplate)

not to mention all the pictures of melted filco keys lol.

If you regularly dip your keyboards into boiling water, that is an issue, yeah.

[GenEric35]

A lot of that stuff is overexaggerated. The rattle isn't something particularly obvious or obtrusive unlike, for example, in the Dell AT101W. Truth is that the alternatives have similar problems, and worse (Cherry G80 for example has a load of flex in the case, and no backplate)



If you regularly dip your keyboards into boiling water, that is an issue, yeah.

hehe, boiled filco keys, it's what's for dinner, nom nom nom

seriously, I was thinking on getting a dell at101w, there seems to be a few of them for sale these days, new and used from 35 to 65$, were you saying the keys tend to rattle a lot on this board, or rattle less than average? because that's one problem with my ABS M1, when reach for the arrow keys or the mouse, and come back to the home keys, i have to feel to find the nipple(to find the J home key) and it does create an unnecessary rah-h-h-h scrapping sound louder than typing(lets say i do this 200 times a day), and much of it is just key rattling.

[GenEric35]

I don't like the spacebars on Topres.  Slightly different colored and molding streaks on the front.

Show Image

The point is - you can always find a defect if you look hard enough.  It's plastic.

true, from the pictures I had seen before I never noticed how it was sticking out from the other keys

speaking of space bars, was there a mod(removing spring) on a hhkb space bar to make more silent like the other keys?  I think i'll end up noticing it the day it arrives and will end up modding it.
I guess in this case only the rubber dome is left, is this known to wear out the dome faster once the spring is removed?

Now if only we could get Lego to make keycaps, they would get good ratings here :D

[maxlugar]

hehe, boiled filco keys, it's what's for dinner, nom nom nom

seriously, I was thinking on getting a dell at101w, there seems to be a few of them for sale these days, new and used from 35 to 65$, were you saying the keys tend to rattle a lot on this board, or rattle less than average? because that's one problem with my ABS M1, when reach for the arrow keys or the mouse, and come back to the home keys, i have to feel to find the nipple(to find the J home key) and it does create an unnecessary rah-h-h-h scrapping sound louder than typing(lets say i do this 200 times a day), and much of it is just key rattling.

I have a black Dell AT101W I bought from used from Brandon at Clickeykeyboards.com for $65 a few months ago.   It is in very good condition, but it is not my thing.  

If you are interested in buying it, PM me and I will post pics.  I will sell it for $50 which includes 2-day UPS shippping to anywhere in the continental US.  Guaranteed no DOA.

[ch_123]

I think he lives in Canada.

[patrickgeekhack]

hehe, boiled filco keys, it's what's for dinner, nom nom nom

seriously, I was thinking on getting a dell at101w, there seems to be a few of them for sale these days, new and used from 35 to 65$, were you saying the keys tend to rattle a lot on this board, or rattle less than average? because that's one problem with my ABS M1, when reach for the arrow keys or the mouse, and come back to the home keys, i have to feel to find the nipple(to find the J home key) and it does create an unnecessary rah-h-h-h scrapping sound louder than typing(lets say i do this 200 times a day), and much of it is just key rattling.

You can get a new AT101W for cheaper here. When I bought mine it was $10. With shipping and exchange rate the total was about CDN $47. Exchange rate is much better now. I don't think there is custom fee on anything less than $100.

I don't know if you have tried a Filco, but it's not as bad as you think. I happen to like mine a lot. I think it's a very good looking keyboard to begin with and feels wonderful to type on. I also happen to think that the Filco is well built. It's also true that I knew the keys would probably become a bit shinny after a while but this was not a big deal for me. The rattle will depend on how one types on it. Personally, I don't bottom out on the Filco and I have a lot of fun typing on it. In fact, one of the reasons why I'm so happy to go to work every morning now is I get to play with my Filco. I don't view it as work, but as a fun activity.

[GenEric35]

Re: Topre


All I know for sure is the rubber domes will wear out someday.  Some Japanese bank customers reported doing it in a year.  See 2nd law of thermodynamics.

I don't find the spacebar especially loud but I assume you could stick all kinds of dampeners under there if you wanted.

yea, I heard the sound of the space bar stand out in recordings, but I'll have to hear it from myself.

hmm, second law of thermodynamics? now you got me thinking, isn't the second law of thermo supposed to be mainly how two system balance in temperature and how this migration of heat(conduction?) can be captured to do work, and wasn't conduction the same equation as a capacitor? Is that spring supposed to be used as a capacitor coil that actuates once it reaches a certain capacitance? It's the only relation I can see to thermodynamics.

At first glance I would have tough that the wear is more a dynamics problem than thermodynamics, the only link i can see is that work is done each time the dome is pressed, it heats up, gives away heat, and an infinitesimal part of it's molecular integrity; entropy?

If there is more to it,  please follow through with your reference to the second law of thermodynamics?

[ch_123]

This -

joke   /dʒ'oʊk/
Synonyms:
verb: jest, jape, banter, lark, kid, josh
noun: jest, fun, jape, gag, trick, pleasantry, lark, witticism, quip
jokes plural, 3rd person present;   joking present participle;   joked past tense, past participle

Noun - A joke is something that is said or done to make you laugh, for example a funny story.
"He debated whether to make a joke about shooting rabbits, but decided against it."
"No one told worse jokes than Claus."

[rdjack21]

something that keeps coming back a lot in this thread is using cherry browns at work, I guess the main reason is they are less clicky therefor less noisy? is this the main reason of using the cherry brown at work, what type of work do you do, text writting, data entry, programming, support?

I am currently using an ABS M1 at work and it's a great upgrade from the previous keyboard I was using there(rubber dome dell), but the ABS M1 can be a bit noisy(tops out and has a ringing sound) even if it uses non clicky switches.

Most use the browns at work because they are about the quietest quality board available other than a Topre that is. The ABS M1 I have rattles quit a bit wear as my Filco with browns does not. Also I know some here are not going to like this but the Cherry browns are the closest you are going to get to the feel of a Topre with out having to pay for a Topre. So those that have a Topre but can't get two get a brown for work because it is easy to switch between them with out loosing the lighter touch you need with both boards. Myself I prefer the feel of the Topre over the Cherry browns but with that being said I still have a brown and do use it every now and then.

I find i work faster when my coworkers are not in the office and I can go 'all out' on the keyboard'. In my case we are two in the same office with a part time 3rd, are you using those cherry browns in a shared office or cubicles?

I personally think the Topre is quiter for all out typing but to really get to that level you have to use one for a while to get the feel of it. Which will take longer if you are switching between two different switches.

what brands of keyboard do you use for cherry browns? I don't own a filco but it seems like they are not the most solid build, and typing on something that feels cheap annoys me constantly, are you using a Cherry board, i think those have a steel backplate?

Filco's have plate mounted switches. Cherry boards do not.

I've got a hhkb pro2 shipping, for coding and development work but i'm hesitating carrying it every day between work and home, fear of dropping it, and at the same time i'm not sure I would leave this hhkb alone at work every night as it does look like something expensive and easy to get stolen.

First off congrats on the purchase of a HHKB Pro they are really nice boards. If you do end up carrying it back and forth to work get an extra USB cable it is a lot less hassle to just sit down and plug the cable into your keyboard verses trying to run the one cable to your computer every day. Also get a soft case for it just in case you do drop it.

true, from the pictures I had seen before I never noticed how it was sticking out from the other keys

The space bar does not stick out. It is a slightly lighter color than the other keys which makes it look like it is sticking out. And really you really only see that slight color shift if you really look at it or take a picture of it.

speaking of space bars, was there a mod(removing spring) on a hhkb space bar to make more silent like the other keys?  I think i'll end up noticing it the day it arrives and will end up modding it.
I guess in this case only the rubber dome is left, is this known to wear out the dome faster once the spring is removed?

First off if you remove the spring under the dome of your space bar it will no longer work. The spring under the space bar itself I think it just compensates for the weight of the key. I would think if you want to quieten down the space bar some you would need to modify the two pads under the space bar that hit the underside of the key. But I have not really looked into it because it does not bother me.

[GenEric35]

thanks for the detailed answer, rdjack21 for Topre representative!

[paranonia]

I'm a Linux System Administrator. I pretty like the feeling of Topre switches than Cherry.

[ricercar]

isn't the second law of thermo supposed to be mainly how two system balance in temperature...

Laws of Thermodynamics for Dummies:

• You can't win.
• You can't break even.
• You can't get out of the game.

[didjamatic]

You could use this to pack your HHKB to and from work, but you'd need some really dark sunglasses, day old stubble and some sort of rugged jacket to complete the look.

http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1234173565

[microsoft windows]

The only mistake they care about is the US government's excessive debt.

[paranonia]

You could use this to pack your HHKB to and from work, but you'd need some really dark sunglasses, day old stubble and some sort of rugged jacket to complete the look.

Show Image

http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1234173565

I pretty much like this pack.

[rdjack21]

You could use this to pack your HHKB to and from work, but you'd need some really dark sunglasses, day old stubble and some sort of rugged jacket to complete the look.

Show Image

http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1234173565

Yea I would love to get one of those myself but getting one out of Korea is problematic. I really wish diatec carried some of the HHKB options that leopold has because then EliteKeyboards could get them for us.

[o2dazone]

Something I've noticed letting friends and family borrow my cherry blues, is while they like the feel and the crispness, they prefer the definitive "collapse" of a rubber dome. My opinion is that Topre covers both of these. More travel, and still the collapse of a rubber dome.

Not everyone is an instant fan though...there's a few members on here who bought a Topre and sold it soon after.

[rdjack21]

While some will not believe it I do agree that the Topre is not for everyone. Those that like heavy and clicky switches are the ones that seem to not like them and end up selling them. Not all of them but those that do sell them tend to be the ones that like the heavy switches the best.

[rdjack21]

thanks for the detailed answer, rdjack21 for Topre representative!

I like that better than the Topre fanboy some call me (which I am I just don't really like the fanboy term). Topre representative hmmm...

[Rajagra]

You could use this to pack your HHKB to and from work, but you'd need some really dark sunglasses, day old stubble and some sort of rugged jacket to complete the look.

Show Image

http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1234173565

Kind of reminds me of a violin case. I'm sure you could find one the right size.

[didjamatic]

Well, there's always Zero or Pelican cases.  Pelicans are more durable and customizable.  You can throw a Pelican off of a building and it may survive, incredible things.
You can get a Pelican to fit anything on earth: http://www.pelican.com/calculator.php


Or for the more classic Internantional Man of Mystery look, a Zero Halliburton:

[didjamatic]

Plenty of cases on ebay, this one is ABS and measures 11.5" x 3.5” x 7"

Clarinet Case
More...

[iMav]

The HHKB2 used to be THE hot keyboard around here mainly because of form factor, not the switch, because their main advocates were programmers.  Now it's not clear how  that $250 should be spent..

I've never been into the "standard layout" Topre 'boards.  The switches are acceptable to me, but the primary value of the HHKB is the layout.  I find it to be the perfect layout...and actually feel like I'm MISSING keys on other, standard layout keyboards (primarily due to the great FN+key combinations).

If money was no object, I'd probably own six HHKB's (and a few spares).  As it stands, I have a blue Cherry Filco mini on my main system (absolutely love blue and brown Cherry keyswitches) and a bunch of M4's on several other systems.  I carry the HHKB with me as my mobile 'board and use it quite a bit.

BTW, I have lots of AT101W's NIB...so if anyone needs one, PM me.

[GenEric35]

You could use this to pack your HHKB to and from work, but you'd need some really dark sunglasses, day old stubble and some sort of rugged jacket to complete the look.

Show Image

http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1234173565

hehe, it's not just a carrying case! it's a life style!
i'm also considering buying a laptop bag to carry my hhkb,
i went to this used computer place, and they hay had old leather dell laptop bags for 10$,
they looked weather beaten, but cool, there was lots of other models too
realy id just like an extra safe pouch on my lunch bag, something with a flap so it dosent snow on it

yea, i wish elitekeyboards was selling those

[bigpook]

There are scripts you can use to emulate the HHKB layout. I am using one on my linux box for all of my keyboards at home. Whats important for me is the page up/page down, home and end. I don't sweat the the function keys.Cntrl is where it needs to be and so is escape. Having said that, I still regret selling my HHKB. I wish I still had it.

[paranonia]

There are scripts you can use to emulate the HHKB layout. I am using one on my linux box for all of my keyboards at home. Whats important for me is the page up/page down, home and end. I don't sweat the the function keys.Cntrl is where it needs to be and so is escape. Having said that, I still regret selling my HHKB. I wish I still had it.

Could you please show me where  to find these scripts?

I'm also a Linux user by using HHKB now, thank you!

[GenEric35]

Well, there's always Zero or Pelican cases.  Pelicans are more durable and customizable.  You can throw a Pelican off of a building and it may survive, incredible things.
You can get a Pelican to fit anything on earth: http://www.pelican.com/calculator.php

Show Image

Or for the more classic Internantional Man of Mystery look, a Zero Halliburton:

Show Image

that would do heheh, probably very expensive, then again I wouldn't be surprised the original hhkb case is selling for alot too

[GenEric35]

Could you please show me where  to find these scripts?

I'm also a Linux user by using HHKB now, thank you!

it's achieved from configuration scripts for autohotkey, i think they were made from people here at geekhack

original thread

which i think evolved to 'the sqeezboard' layout

[HungryPillow]

OK I've got to say... some of those cases for the keyboard are total overkill.

[paranonia]

it's achieved from configuration scripts for autohotkey, i think they were made from people here at geekhack

original thread

which i think evolved to 'the sqeezboard' layout

Thank you. BTW, why did you sell out your HHKB pro2? ( Forget it, I got wrong. )

[GenEric35]

OK I've got to say... some of those cases for the keyboard are total overkill.

if people could add a 20$ option when buying a keyboard, to include a carrying case, this would be perfect for those who do need a carrying case,

for example, I just ordered a white hhkb with no letters, to fit my igloo...
if i drop it in the snow, i might never find it again

[didjamatic]

OK I've got to say... some of those cases for the keyboard are total overkill.

I agree completely, but then again, what we pay for keyboards around here would be overkill to 99.999% of the planet.

If I packed a $200-300 keyboard to and from work daily like some do, I'd consider a $20 case to protect it for sure.

[microsoft windows]

I'd just keep it at work. I'd get too many laughs if I brought my keyboards to work everyday.

[rdjack21]

it's achieved from configuration scripts for autohotkey, i think they were made from people here at geekhack

original thread

which i think evolved to 'the sqeezboard' layout

Thank you. BTW, why did you sell out your HHKB pro2? ( Forget it, I got wrong. )

Actually you want this thread for the linux script.

[o2dazone]

if people could add a 20$ option when buying a keyboard, to include a carrying case, this would be perfect for those who do need a carrying case,

for example, I just ordered a white hhkb with no letters, to fit my igloo...
if i drop it in the snow, i might never find it again

I took a hair trimmer kit box and lined it with foam. Does the job, but it's ugly as sin lol

[cheater1034]

I'm considering buying a happy hacking pro, i'm not 100% if i'll be able to adjust to the layout or not tho :\ (does it have delete/backspace keys?)

[ch_123]

No. Users of Happy Hacking keyboards never make mistakes. Ever.


[size=-1](Depending on how you set the keyboard's DIP switches up, the button above Enter is either Delete or Backspace, and holding down Fn will make it do the other one)[/size]

[bigpook]

Could you please show me where  to find these scripts?

I'm also a Linux user by using HHKB now, thank you!

A thread of interest can be found here:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=5906&highlight=emulating+hhkb

[bigpook]

your nitpicking webwit. using the script is enough to get an idea of what an HHKB will be like.
I would rather run the script and find out that the layout won't work for me before I spend real money on an HHKB.
as for me, the emulation is 'good enough'. you are correct though, it may not suit everyone.

[o2dazone]

I'm considering buying a happy hacking pro, i'm not 100% if i'll be able to adjust to the layout or not tho :\

It doesn't take that long. It's much easier than switching from mouse to trackball, I'll tell you that. Emulate your Caps Lock <--> Control on a normal keyboard and the rest should come pretty easily.

[cheater1034]

I'm considering one because they seem to claim that they are good for programming, and I'll be doing a lot of programming in the near and distant future.

Although it is hard for me to drop $250 :O, my other consideration is the filco brown (which is about half of the price), I'm just looking for something comfortable+quiet+not much foce, these blue cherries are nice but have become too loud, something else is up with them too, maybe it's the tacile bump that I'm not very fond of - i read that the topre's have a consistent motion through them which I would probably like. I have a somewhat bad wrist and the counter hand is also not in top shape (I broke my left wrist twice and had surgery, and have broken my right hand as well) - my left is a bit weaker than my right one still :\

compact size is good for me too, because I'd be travelling with it a bit probably using it on the laptop.

I can't believe I'm shopping for keyboards again (since using a few mechanical I can't go back)

[toffz]

Decided that if I can manage to sell my Das, that will justify the Realforce purchase. And what do know! After a couple of days I had posted 'Das on sale' on a finnish computer forum, someone decided to make the switch

So to the webstore to order myself a christmas present

[ch_123]

Are you ordering the Finnish layout Realforce?

[toffz]

Are you ordering the Finnish layout Realforce?

Yep.

[_js_]

FWIW, I bought a Realforce 103U with Topre keyswitches, and it has become my favorite keyboard, edging out my Model M and AEKII.  And as soon as the 87U (or equivalent) becomes available in white at elitekeyboards, I'll be buying that model as well.  Thought about the HHKB, but for my uses the layout is far from ideal so I've refrained from picking one up.  Thought about hard.  Really hard.  But in the end, I knew it wouldn't work out for my uses.

[rdjack21]

Yea I've been really surprised that Elitekeyboards has not carried the white 87U. I believe someone here got one from them though but it is still not shown on the site.

[ch_123]

As far as I know, Brian can get you a white one if you ask.

[didjamatic]

I want a white 87u.  What does Brian charge for them?

[ch_123]

I want a white 87u.  What does Brian charge for them?

Same as regular ones as far as I know.

[itlnstln]

Same as regular ones as far as I know.

I think the only stipulation is that you have to wait until he places another order and gets that shipment in.

[toffz]

Thanks! Sure thing, no one had anything negative to say about the switches, except the price of the keyboards. Will be getting the RF tomorrow or on Thursday

[didjamatic]

I want a white 87u.  What does Brian charge for them?

I want one too.

[_js_]

As far as I know, Brian can get you a white one if you ask.

Not true, sadly.  I asked if he could and he said no.  I asked if he could if I paid extra, and he said unless I was willing to buy 50-100 boards, I'd have to wait until about Feb of 2010.

[didjamatic]

Yes and that is really lame.  What kind of supplier (Realforce/Topre) refuses to include a color variation on an order.  They should easily be able to include 10 White boards and 90 Black on a purchase.  I would buy a white 87u from overseas but the markup is ridiculous for all of them I've found so far.  Combined with shipping makes it unreasonable.

I'm not blaming Elite for this issue, it's a supplier problem.  I'm sure Elite would be happy to sell me two white 87u boards.

I guess there's always the option of getting a black 87u and then a white set of Topre caps from KBC if you want the tuxedo look.

[HungryPillow]

A white 87U with black alphabet key caps sounds pretty delicious right about now...

[GenEric35]

is the sound of the 87u and 103 key different? When I listen to recordings the 103 always has a lower tone, and aside from the width, are both board the exact same construction?

[ocdonkb]

I've watched a lot of youtube Topre vids, they mostly sound the same to me. I don't own one of these, but the more I watch/listen, the more I want!

here's a few:

Realforce 103
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vcCFWf5fZk

Realforce 87
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNmKQh3YWpo&feature=related

[GenEric35]

they do sound very similar, they should, could someone that has both shed some light on this?

[didjamatic]

A white 87U with black alphabet key caps sounds pretty delicious right about now...

That's funny, I've been picturing a black one with white keys.  Get a white 87u and maybe we can work something out.

The audio on those clips is very close to the real thing, but it depends on how hard you bottom out on each key.  The more you bottom out, the more you'll hear and feel that "thumping" sound, the less you bottom out, the less you'll hear the thump sound.  No matter how you type on this board, it's clean, tight, smooth and thocky.

I have the 103u (white) and 87u (black)... Hopefully I will be able to find 2 WHITE 87u's + numpads and I will be a happy camper at work and at home.

[HungryPillow]

Why don't you just swap the keys on the 103U and the 87U? Will they fit? I've only got a black 87U at the moment but wouldn't mind a white one to play around with...

[toffz]

Got my RF 105 yesterday! Coding with a big smile :biggrin:

[xyzzy]

Nice, congrats! Post some photos when you have a chance

[rdjack21]

Got my RF 105 yesterday! Coding with a big smile :biggrin:

Congratulations! Yes they are great boards to type on. Now you get to enjoy the
Good feeling of oneness with cup rubber

[toffz]

I certainly am enjoying typing with the RF, but what do you guys mean with 'good feeling of oneness with the cup rubber'?

[itlnstln]

I certainly am enjoying typing with the RF, but what do you guys mean with 'good feeling of oneness with the cup rubber'?

Check out the writing on the box.

[didjamatic]

I certainly am enjoying typing with the RF, but what do you guys mean with 'good feeling of oneness with the cup rubber'?

It's printed on the Realforce box.

[bigpook]

I had a HHKB and strangely the 'good feeling of oneness with the cup rubber' is rather accurate.
I miss my feeling of oneness....sigh.

[ch_123]

What happened to it?

[bigpook]

In a moment of stupidity, I sold it.

[microsoft windows]

I loved the Mr. Bill show. Don't put him or his dog near a Model M though...or that'll be the end of them!

[bigpook]

While the thought has crossed my mind, I would most likely get another HHKB ( white with lettering this time) versus the realforce. I don't think I would like the different weighted keys. And the layout of the HHKB is a plus.

is it xmas yet?

[bigpook]

ripster, you are my enabler : )

[maxlugar]

ripster, you are my enabler : )

Satan is also an enabler

[bigpook]

: ) I need to find a little red devil.

ripster made me do it. honest.

[bigpook]

Satan is also an enabler

yeah, but I don't believe in satan, but I do believe in ripster.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Are you suggesting that Ripster can be comparable to Satan?

[Rajagra]

I've never seen them in the same room.

[maxlugar]

yeah, but I don't believe in satan, but I do believe in ripster.

They will both lead you down the path...to spend more and more and more on keyboards.

BTW, do you believe in webwit?  

[microsoft windows]

I believe in Windows. It accomplishes my computing needs very well.

[bigpook]

They will both lead you down the path...to spend more and more and more on keyboards.

BTW, do you believe in webwit?  

I will be silent when it comes to webwit. I don't want to incur his wrath.

[bigpook]

I believe in Windows. It accomplishes my computing needs very well.

windows is truly evil. far surpassing ripster and even webwit.

[maxlugar]

windows is truly evil. far surpassing ripster and even webwit.

Are you referring to Windows as in the OS or our friend microsoft windows?  

[ch_123]

Both interpretations of that sentence are true.

[ch_123]

We call them the same thing over here. You can tell how close you are to Dublin based on how fat the pigeons are...

[bigpook]

oh man, webwit has just put a curse on me

[ricercar]

ripster = enabler
Satan = enabler
ripster = Satan

Dammit, I was trying to find proof on the web, but I ended up playing Towers of Hanoi too long.

[bigpook]

I did? Oh wait, I did, and the only way to lift it is by handing over a quality keyboard. Hmmm, that Filco Tenless with Black Alps looks nice..

I thought you modded one for yourself?

[bigpook]

Well, if he gets an order from Florida it has to be Bigpook.  I thought programmers did their best work in colder climates.

maybe. but I don't think I am the only geekhacker in Florida. the hhkb does look good in white though.

[bigpook]

Not yet. I have the Filco Fukka and the Dell, but so far have been occupied with other toys.

I was thinking you may have one of the B stock XM's to swap with.The Dell would be the donor but I wouldn't replace the fukkas with them.

yeah, you have quite the collection. the industrials look really nice and I think ripster has an industrial mini. Now that would be sweet.

[bigpook]

Now BigPook, you're trying to change the subject at hand.

White.  Want.

Show Image

it works on more then one level

you are truly despicable. be still my beating heart.

[bigpook]

I got the first one, special listing

damn, and what a great price.

[GenEric35]

A good way to get that out of your head would be to get one of these...

done, preorder shipping out today

date   Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:26 AM
subject   Your EliteKeyboards Order Has Shipped

1 x PDKB400WN Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 (White/Grey w/Blank Keys)   

hide details 12:26 AM (21 hours ago)

wooot!

[ocdonkb]

so jealous... let us know how you like it, and post some pics.

[rdjack21]

Didn't you get the message I get the credit for all the Topre boards. With all the credit I have gotten lately I getting two of these (white and black) and another one of these.

[bigpook]

and the same to you. we'll see what ends up under the tree this year : )

[bigpook]

done, preorder shipping out today

date   Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:26 AM
subject   Your EliteKeyboards Order Has Shipped

1 x PDKB400WN Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 (White/Grey w/Blank Keys)   

hide details 12:26 AM (21 hours ago)

wooot!

wow, I thought this was my (partial) thread of temptation...

the power of the HHKB compels you...

[bigpook]

I'll let you guys fight over the commission.  I only have Bigpooks interests at heart.


Have A Merry Christmas Bigpook!

Show Image

thats kind of a funny picture. the guy walking off with the money shows only 1 one hundred dollar bill, you need to add a couple more : )

the guy getting the keyboard has a beard and is wearing a funky hat. I don't really resemble that guy.

the women in the background could possibly be my wife. body language and facial expression looks familiar to me; something along the lines of "what? another keyboard?"

the santa character I think is working with the guy with the money.

ooh, I figured it out. the guy with the money clearly has 1 one hundred dollar bill. But Santa(satan, they both wear red for a reason) has pocketed the difference.
I think the money goes into the elf's retirement pension fund. That or Santa is going to the strip club after his one night of work is over.

gee ripster, you sure put alot of work into these lego pictures.

 oh man, I get it. Santa is Ripster is Satan is Santa.
maybe webwit is the tree?

[_js_]

In regards to the HHKB vs. 103U or 87U, I do like idea of all 45g weighting on the HHKB Pro, but honestly, as I am typing this on my Realforce 103U, I do not notice the different weighting of the keys.  Odd, but true.  I'd still prefer them all to be 45 (but not 55), but the differential weighting is a very minor thing, and who knows?  Maybe I'd even prefer the 35/45/55 setup that I have if I were able to compare side by side.  The pinkie finger is, after all, a lot weaker than the others!

I keep trying to convince myself to buy an HHKB Pro 2, but no matter how I try, I keep coming back to the same things: the layout just isn't for me, mostly in that some of the keys I'd need to use frequently would require two hands, and that is a deal breaker.  I know about the dip switches and all that, but even so, there are certain keys, either on mac or PC, that I really want to have, that I would need to use combo key strokes for on the HHKB.  I do love the look of the thing, though, and I like the minimalist approach, and I may some day have to buy one just to be absolutely sure that I wouldn't get used to it and love it, but right now, I suspect that the 87U is the next best bet for me.

[didjamatic]

When typing on a 103u I don't have a prob with the key weighting, I had more probs when coming from buckling spring to cherry browns and topres but now that im adjusted I love the browns and topres.  You get used to anything so you can't really judge them until you've acclimated to want you are using for a while.

HHKB doesn't do it for me due to the inefficiency of requiring too many key combos and for me, I admin many systems so try to stay with a standard layout.  But the HHKB is a seriously cool board.

[GenEric35]

In regards to the HHKB vs. 103U or 87U, I do like idea of all 45g weighting on the HHKB Pro, but honestly, as I am typing this on my Realforce 103U, I do not notice the different weighting of the keys.  Odd, but true.  I'd still prefer them all to be 45 (but not 55), but the differential weighting is a very minor thing, and who knows?  Maybe I'd even prefer the 35/45/55 setup that I have if I were able to compare side by side.  The pinkie finger is, after all, a lot weaker than the others!

I keep trying to convince myself to buy an HHKB Pro 2, but no matter how I try, I keep coming back to the same things: the layout just isn't for me, mostly in that some of the keys I'd need to use frequently would require two hands, and that is a deal breaker.  I know about the dip switches and all that, but even so, there are certain keys, either on mac or PC, that I really want to have, that I would need to use combo key strokes for on the HHKB.  I do love the look of the thing, though, and I like the minimalist approach, and I may some day have to buy one just to be absolutely sure that I wouldn't get used to it and love it, but right now, I suspect that the 87U is the next best bet for me.

my main reason to buy the HHKB is the secondary layout fits with the current short cut I use, if it was the other way around, it might have been a show stopper for me too. I tend to think that, if i have to choose between a topre and hhkb, hhkb is ideal for coding(and similar work) and Topre for everything else. But that's from my "buyer" perspective, I haven't got any yet, one of them is shipping.

maybe readjusting to new shortcuts isn't too complicate either, for example I had to remap my windows key to right ctrl on 101 keyboard, the adaptation was very fast and I now use the same layout on 104 keyboards too.

Since the keys didn't conflict with any of my existing shortcuts/combos I went for the HHKB, otherwise I would have got a Topre for sure.

[ocdonkb]

I've been reading all the HHKB threads(as I'm considering a Topre, gasp!), and between the Realforce and HHKB, the layout is obviously the biggest concern.

What exactly makes the HHKB good for coding? I'd think that if anything, having to press Fn+number to get the function key is a hinderance(I'm a Visual Studio user)...

Perhaps when people say it's good for coding, they're talking about coding in the Unix/Emacs/vi environment?

I've read through AndrewZorn's HHKB-v-CherryBrown thread, and now this. Still not sure about HHKB-v-RF.... and also considering getting a HHKB Lite 2 just to try out the layout(but I understand it's bit different than the Pro 2).

Sigh... why did I find this forum...

[AndrewZorn]

home/end pgup/pgdn and arrows at the home row.  not just coding, pretty much awesome for any text entry other than pure numbers.

[rdjack21]

What exactly makes the HHKB good for coding? I'd think that if anything, having to press Fn+number to get the function key is a hinderance(I'm a Visual Studio user)...

Perhaps when people say it's good for coding, they're talking about coding in the Unix/Emacs/vi environment?

Yes the HHKB Pro was really initially for the Unix/Emacs/vi environments but that does not mean that it is bad for other environments. What makes the HHKB so great for Emacs/vi is because all the keyboard shortcuts use Ctrl. Newer IDE's have their hot keys scattered all over the keyboard which can be a pain even on full size keyboards because you have to leave the home row all the time to use them. But at least in the IDE's I use (Netbeans, Eclipse) you can change the hot key mappings to anything you want so I have changed all of them to use the Ctrl key instead of say the function keys. I've not used Visual Studio so don't know how flexible it is.

Also nothing wrong with the 87U either. I actually got my 87U before I got my HHKB Pro and I use them both all the time and can't really say that I prefer one over the other. But there are times I did wish the HHKB had a few more keys in particular the F keys I can live with out the arrow keys because the way the HHKB Pro handles those is fine with me but I do use the F keys quit a bit so miss those. It should be noted as well that on my 87U I have swapped the Ctrl and caps lock keys as well as the back space and / keys which are the only keys compared to the HHKB Pro that are in different locations and in all reality the caps lock location is the right place for the Ctrl key.

As some have said in the past if you are unsure of the HHKB Pro layout get the 87U because you can always remap the 87U to be a HHKB Pro but you can't add keys to the HHKB Pro to make it like the 87U.

[paranonia]

As some have said in the past if you are unsure of the HHKB Pro layout get the 87U because you can always remap the 87U to be a HHKB Pro but you can't add keys to the HHKB Pro to make it like the 87U.

Since you have both 86U and 87U, what's the main difference you think between them, only color?

[rdjack21]

Since you have both 86U and 87U, what's the main difference you think between them, only color?

Yes the color the 86U is white and my 87U is black the other difference is the led in the Caps lock and num lock keys but not having the led does not bother me on the 86U. Also per the specs the 86U has 30g pinky keys and the 87U has 35g pinky keys but I really can't tell the difference when typing on them. But the big minus is that you can get the 87U here for the 86U you have to get it out of Japan which means after all the expenses of getting the 86U to the US it is going to cost more than getting the 87U from Elitekeyboards. You could almost get the 87U and a set of white HHKB Pro keys for what you would spend getting the 86U out of Japan.

EDIT: Ops forgot you are in China so you would be shipping no matter which one you got. If you look around you can find some good deals on the 86U. For instance the 86U is 2,000 yen cheaper at diatec but I have seen it cheaper else where I just don't remember where I want to say I saw it for 19k yen at one site but I don't remember where it was.

[paranonia]

EDIT: Ops forgot you are in China so you would be shipping no matter which one you got. If you look around you can find some good deals on the 86U. For instance the 86U is 2,000 yen cheaper at diatec but I have seen it cheaper else where I just don't remember where I want to say I saw it for 19k yen at one site but I don't remember where it was.

Thanks, looks like 86u is much cheaper sold here in China. No big difference between them, so consider to buy a 86u.

I also would swap ESC to grave position. :biggrin:

[Rajagra]

Doesn't the 87U have an extra key over the 86U? The clue is in the name! :wink:

Edit> It's the extra right-hand Windows key.

[rdjack21]

Oh you are right I forgot about that. The 87U has an extra Windows key on the right side.

[rdjack21]

Thanks, looks like 86u is much cheaper sold here in China. No big difference between them, so consider to buy a 86u.

I also would swap ESC to grave position. :biggrin:

I don't use the ESC key as much so have not moved that one but yea if I was using Emacs a bunch I would have to move it.

[o2dazone]

pretty much awesome for any text entry other than pure numbers.

It's about 50/50. You can get some good finger rolls (considering you're using both hands) to get numbers in. Jumping around the number row is slightly slower than a numpad, but doing something from left to right or right to left, can be considerably faster than a numpad, assuming you can touchtype the number row.

I think the HHKB is a great layout, although I wish there was a left side Fn key without compromising any other keys. Other than that, you adjust to the layout quickly, and begin to nitpick standard layouts (like why \ takes precedence over backspace/delete to the homerow).

After typing strictly on an HHKB for 7 months, at any time, I can switch over to a standard layout, and it takes just lightly adjusting to control and backspace (arrows feel natural because they're so different on HHKB/Standard layouts).

Good luck on whatever you decide, and post pixxxx

[AndrewZorn]

yeah but a normal keyboard also has a number row.  i wasnt saying the HHKB is awful for pure number entry, but i think a standard layout kind of has the advantage.

but yeah, backspace on HHKB is amazing

[AndrewZorn]

PFU gives credit to their inspiration

if it is so obvious then why is it not normal for keyboards
making such a thing look so unoriginal just makes the standard layout look worse

i stick by "amazing"

[msiegel]

Fn Tab = Caps Lock???

Shoulda been Fn Shift.

although Fn Shift is logical, it may be easy to hit accidentally.

i hate hitting caps LOCK ACCIDENTALLY

[AndrewZorn]

Fn Tab = Caps Lock???

Shoulda been Fn Shift.  Duh.

Plus, I thought you liked sarcasm?

i guess i can never tell anymore

[ch_123]

Time to see what all this fuss is about.

[ch_123]

Well, it will be here sometime in the New Year. We can find out then!

I think I got a good bargain out of it. With shipping, it amounted to ~€110. A good deal less than the €200+ splash for a new one.

[bigpook]

hey, wait a minute. that's a laptop bag...

[didjamatic]

Forget the bag, look at those labeled boxes behind it!!!!!!!!

[didjamatic]

oh my.... that is seriously incredible. I'm moving my office to a smaller room and am taking organizational notes on this big time.  Awesome.

[majestouch]

You could put a laptop and a mouse and a HHKB in this bag. Or a HHKB and various knives or other stealth weapons. You name it.

What is it exactly that you said you do for a living?

[ch_123]

If I was to pick one switch to compare the Topre experience with, it would be...

The Cherry G86. They're quite different, but the Cherry is sort of like a stiffer and less precise Topre. Not that that's a bad thing, the G86 is probably one of the better rubber dome keyboards around.

[ricercar]

Hmm. I have a G86-8955 with Cherry browns.

[itlnstln]

Hmm. I have a G86-8955 with Cherry browns.

Was that one made in the US?  The SPOS 'boards we got awhile back have G80 in the article no. even though the product number is G86.  I wonder if the US ones might be labeled differently.  Goofy-ass Cherry numbering system.

[didjamatic]

I think those SPOS boards were a one-off special order due to the rarity of Brown switches in that model and the extremely low serial numbers.

[keyb_gr]

There is one potential candidate for a regular production SPOS with browns - the G86-62410. It seems to have been rather short-lived, as the 2002 catalog doesn't know any G86s at all and the 2006 one has G86-614xx and G86-634xx only.

[ch_123]

Wait, I was thinking of the G83...