Topre switch keyboard owner: Are you satisfied?

[bigpook]

oh man, webwit has just put a curse on me

[ricercar]

ripster = enabler
Satan = enabler
ripster = Satan

Dammit, I was trying to find proof on the web, but I ended up playing Towers of Hanoi too long.

[bigpook]

I did? Oh wait, I did, and the only way to lift it is by handing over a quality keyboard. Hmmm, that Filco Tenless with Black Alps looks nice..

I thought you modded one for yourself?

[bigpook]

Well, if he gets an order from Florida it has to be Bigpook.  I thought programmers did their best work in colder climates.

maybe. but I don't think I am the only geekhacker in Florida. the hhkb does look good in white though.

[bigpook]

Not yet. I have the Filco Fukka and the Dell, but so far have been occupied with other toys.

I was thinking you may have one of the B stock XM's to swap with.The Dell would be the donor but I wouldn't replace the fukkas with them.

yeah, you have quite the collection. the industrials look really nice and I think ripster has an industrial mini. Now that would be sweet.

[bigpook]

Now BigPook, you're trying to change the subject at hand.

White.  Want.

Show Image

it works on more then one level

you are truly despicable. be still my beating heart.

[bigpook]

I got the first one, special listing

damn, and what a great price.

[GenEric35]

A good way to get that out of your head would be to get one of these...

done, preorder shipping out today

date   Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:26 AM
subject   Your EliteKeyboards Order Has Shipped

1 x PDKB400WN Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 (White/Grey w/Blank Keys)   

hide details 12:26 AM (21 hours ago)

wooot!

[ocdonkb]

so jealous... let us know how you like it, and post some pics.

[rdjack21]

Didn't you get the message I get the credit for all the Topre boards. With all the credit I have gotten lately I getting two of these (white and black) and another one of these.

[bigpook]

and the same to you. we'll see what ends up under the tree this year : )

[bigpook]

done, preorder shipping out today

date   Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:26 AM
subject   Your EliteKeyboards Order Has Shipped

1 x PDKB400WN Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 (White/Grey w/Blank Keys)   

hide details 12:26 AM (21 hours ago)

wooot!

wow, I thought this was my (partial) thread of temptation...

the power of the HHKB compels you...

[bigpook]

I'll let you guys fight over the commission.  I only have Bigpooks interests at heart.


Have A Merry Christmas Bigpook!

Show Image

thats kind of a funny picture. the guy walking off with the money shows only 1 one hundred dollar bill, you need to add a couple more : )

the guy getting the keyboard has a beard and is wearing a funky hat. I don't really resemble that guy.

the women in the background could possibly be my wife. body language and facial expression looks familiar to me; something along the lines of "what? another keyboard?"

the santa character I think is working with the guy with the money.

ooh, I figured it out. the guy with the money clearly has 1 one hundred dollar bill. But Santa(satan, they both wear red for a reason) has pocketed the difference.
I think the money goes into the elf's retirement pension fund. That or Santa is going to the strip club after his one night of work is over.

gee ripster, you sure put alot of work into these lego pictures.

 oh man, I get it. Santa is Ripster is Satan is Santa.
maybe webwit is the tree?

[_js_]

In regards to the HHKB vs. 103U or 87U, I do like idea of all 45g weighting on the HHKB Pro, but honestly, as I am typing this on my Realforce 103U, I do not notice the different weighting of the keys.  Odd, but true.  I'd still prefer them all to be 45 (but not 55), but the differential weighting is a very minor thing, and who knows?  Maybe I'd even prefer the 35/45/55 setup that I have if I were able to compare side by side.  The pinkie finger is, after all, a lot weaker than the others!

I keep trying to convince myself to buy an HHKB Pro 2, but no matter how I try, I keep coming back to the same things: the layout just isn't for me, mostly in that some of the keys I'd need to use frequently would require two hands, and that is a deal breaker.  I know about the dip switches and all that, but even so, there are certain keys, either on mac or PC, that I really want to have, that I would need to use combo key strokes for on the HHKB.  I do love the look of the thing, though, and I like the minimalist approach, and I may some day have to buy one just to be absolutely sure that I wouldn't get used to it and love it, but right now, I suspect that the 87U is the next best bet for me.

[didjamatic]

When typing on a 103u I don't have a prob with the key weighting, I had more probs when coming from buckling spring to cherry browns and topres but now that im adjusted I love the browns and topres.  You get used to anything so you can't really judge them until you've acclimated to want you are using for a while.

HHKB doesn't do it for me due to the inefficiency of requiring too many key combos and for me, I admin many systems so try to stay with a standard layout.  But the HHKB is a seriously cool board.

[GenEric35]

In regards to the HHKB vs. 103U or 87U, I do like idea of all 45g weighting on the HHKB Pro, but honestly, as I am typing this on my Realforce 103U, I do not notice the different weighting of the keys.  Odd, but true.  I'd still prefer them all to be 45 (but not 55), but the differential weighting is a very minor thing, and who knows?  Maybe I'd even prefer the 35/45/55 setup that I have if I were able to compare side by side.  The pinkie finger is, after all, a lot weaker than the others!

I keep trying to convince myself to buy an HHKB Pro 2, but no matter how I try, I keep coming back to the same things: the layout just isn't for me, mostly in that some of the keys I'd need to use frequently would require two hands, and that is a deal breaker.  I know about the dip switches and all that, but even so, there are certain keys, either on mac or PC, that I really want to have, that I would need to use combo key strokes for on the HHKB.  I do love the look of the thing, though, and I like the minimalist approach, and I may some day have to buy one just to be absolutely sure that I wouldn't get used to it and love it, but right now, I suspect that the 87U is the next best bet for me.

my main reason to buy the HHKB is the secondary layout fits with the current short cut I use, if it was the other way around, it might have been a show stopper for me too. I tend to think that, if i have to choose between a topre and hhkb, hhkb is ideal for coding(and similar work) and Topre for everything else. But that's from my "buyer" perspective, I haven't got any yet, one of them is shipping.

maybe readjusting to new shortcuts isn't too complicate either, for example I had to remap my windows key to right ctrl on 101 keyboard, the adaptation was very fast and I now use the same layout on 104 keyboards too.

Since the keys didn't conflict with any of my existing shortcuts/combos I went for the HHKB, otherwise I would have got a Topre for sure.

[ocdonkb]

I've been reading all the HHKB threads(as I'm considering a Topre, gasp!), and between the Realforce and HHKB, the layout is obviously the biggest concern.

What exactly makes the HHKB good for coding? I'd think that if anything, having to press Fn+number to get the function key is a hinderance(I'm a Visual Studio user)...

Perhaps when people say it's good for coding, they're talking about coding in the Unix/Emacs/vi environment?

I've read through AndrewZorn's HHKB-v-CherryBrown thread, and now this. Still not sure about HHKB-v-RF.... and also considering getting a HHKB Lite 2 just to try out the layout(but I understand it's bit different than the Pro 2).

Sigh... why did I find this forum...

[AndrewZorn]

home/end pgup/pgdn and arrows at the home row.  not just coding, pretty much awesome for any text entry other than pure numbers.

[rdjack21]

What exactly makes the HHKB good for coding? I'd think that if anything, having to press Fn+number to get the function key is a hinderance(I'm a Visual Studio user)...

Perhaps when people say it's good for coding, they're talking about coding in the Unix/Emacs/vi environment?

Yes the HHKB Pro was really initially for the Unix/Emacs/vi environments but that does not mean that it is bad for other environments. What makes the HHKB so great for Emacs/vi is because all the keyboard shortcuts use Ctrl. Newer IDE's have their hot keys scattered all over the keyboard which can be a pain even on full size keyboards because you have to leave the home row all the time to use them. But at least in the IDE's I use (Netbeans, Eclipse) you can change the hot key mappings to anything you want so I have changed all of them to use the Ctrl key instead of say the function keys. I've not used Visual Studio so don't know how flexible it is.

Also nothing wrong with the 87U either. I actually got my 87U before I got my HHKB Pro and I use them both all the time and can't really say that I prefer one over the other. But there are times I did wish the HHKB had a few more keys in particular the F keys I can live with out the arrow keys because the way the HHKB Pro handles those is fine with me but I do use the F keys quit a bit so miss those. It should be noted as well that on my 87U I have swapped the Ctrl and caps lock keys as well as the back space and / keys which are the only keys compared to the HHKB Pro that are in different locations and in all reality the caps lock location is the right place for the Ctrl key.

As some have said in the past if you are unsure of the HHKB Pro layout get the 87U because you can always remap the 87U to be a HHKB Pro but you can't add keys to the HHKB Pro to make it like the 87U.

[paranonia]

As some have said in the past if you are unsure of the HHKB Pro layout get the 87U because you can always remap the 87U to be a HHKB Pro but you can't add keys to the HHKB Pro to make it like the 87U.

Since you have both 86U and 87U, what's the main difference you think between them, only color?

[rdjack21]

Since you have both 86U and 87U, what's the main difference you think between them, only color?

Yes the color the 86U is white and my 87U is black the other difference is the led in the Caps lock and num lock keys but not having the led does not bother me on the 86U. Also per the specs the 86U has 30g pinky keys and the 87U has 35g pinky keys but I really can't tell the difference when typing on them. But the big minus is that you can get the 87U here for the 86U you have to get it out of Japan which means after all the expenses of getting the 86U to the US it is going to cost more than getting the 87U from Elitekeyboards. You could almost get the 87U and a set of white HHKB Pro keys for what you would spend getting the 86U out of Japan.

EDIT: Ops forgot you are in China so you would be shipping no matter which one you got. If you look around you can find some good deals on the 86U. For instance the 86U is 2,000 yen cheaper at diatec but I have seen it cheaper else where I just don't remember where I want to say I saw it for 19k yen at one site but I don't remember where it was.

[paranonia]

EDIT: Ops forgot you are in China so you would be shipping no matter which one you got. If you look around you can find some good deals on the 86U. For instance the 86U is 2,000 yen cheaper at diatec but I have seen it cheaper else where I just don't remember where I want to say I saw it for 19k yen at one site but I don't remember where it was.

Thanks, looks like 86u is much cheaper sold here in China. No big difference between them, so consider to buy a 86u.

I also would swap ESC to grave position. :biggrin:

[Rajagra]

Doesn't the 87U have an extra key over the 86U? The clue is in the name! :wink:

Edit> It's the extra right-hand Windows key.

[rdjack21]

Oh you are right I forgot about that. The 87U has an extra Windows key on the right side.

[rdjack21]

Thanks, looks like 86u is much cheaper sold here in China. No big difference between them, so consider to buy a 86u.

I also would swap ESC to grave position. :biggrin:

I don't use the ESC key as much so have not moved that one but yea if I was using Emacs a bunch I would have to move it.

[o2dazone]

pretty much awesome for any text entry other than pure numbers.

It's about 50/50. You can get some good finger rolls (considering you're using both hands) to get numbers in. Jumping around the number row is slightly slower than a numpad, but doing something from left to right or right to left, can be considerably faster than a numpad, assuming you can touchtype the number row.

I think the HHKB is a great layout, although I wish there was a left side Fn key without compromising any other keys. Other than that, you adjust to the layout quickly, and begin to nitpick standard layouts (like why \ takes precedence over backspace/delete to the homerow).

After typing strictly on an HHKB for 7 months, at any time, I can switch over to a standard layout, and it takes just lightly adjusting to control and backspace (arrows feel natural because they're so different on HHKB/Standard layouts).

Good luck on whatever you decide, and post pixxxx

[AndrewZorn]

yeah but a normal keyboard also has a number row.  i wasnt saying the HHKB is awful for pure number entry, but i think a standard layout kind of has the advantage.

but yeah, backspace on HHKB is amazing

[AndrewZorn]

PFU gives credit to their inspiration

if it is so obvious then why is it not normal for keyboards
making such a thing look so unoriginal just makes the standard layout look worse

i stick by "amazing"

[msiegel]

Fn Tab = Caps Lock???

Shoulda been Fn Shift.

although Fn Shift is logical, it may be easy to hit accidentally.

i hate hitting caps LOCK ACCIDENTALLY

[AndrewZorn]

Fn Tab = Caps Lock???

Shoulda been Fn Shift.  Duh.

Plus, I thought you liked sarcasm?

i guess i can never tell anymore

[ch_123]

Time to see what all this fuss is about.

[ch_123]

Well, it will be here sometime in the New Year. We can find out then!

I think I got a good bargain out of it. With shipping, it amounted to ~€110. A good deal less than the €200+ splash for a new one.

[bigpook]

hey, wait a minute. that's a laptop bag...

[didjamatic]

Forget the bag, look at those labeled boxes behind it!!!!!!!!

[didjamatic]

oh my.... that is seriously incredible. I'm moving my office to a smaller room and am taking organizational notes on this big time.  Awesome.

[majestouch]

You could put a laptop and a mouse and a HHKB in this bag. Or a HHKB and various knives or other stealth weapons. You name it.

What is it exactly that you said you do for a living?

[ch_123]

If I was to pick one switch to compare the Topre experience with, it would be...

The Cherry G86. They're quite different, but the Cherry is sort of like a stiffer and less precise Topre. Not that that's a bad thing, the G86 is probably one of the better rubber dome keyboards around.

[ricercar]

Hmm. I have a G86-8955 with Cherry browns.

[itlnstln]

Hmm. I have a G86-8955 with Cherry browns.

Was that one made in the US?  The SPOS 'boards we got awhile back have G80 in the article no. even though the product number is G86.  I wonder if the US ones might be labeled differently.  Goofy-ass Cherry numbering system.

[didjamatic]

I think those SPOS boards were a one-off special order due to the rarity of Brown switches in that model and the extremely low serial numbers.

[keyb_gr]

There is one potential candidate for a regular production SPOS with browns - the G86-62410. It seems to have been rather short-lived, as the 2002 catalog doesn't know any G86s at all and the 2006 one has G86-614xx and G86-634xx only.

[ch_123]

Wait, I was thinking of the G83...