Author Topic: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - Finished  (Read 257075 times)

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Offline bsvercl

  • Posts: 1
  • Location: USA
apparently the ergodox and colevark kits sold out in on kono, is there any way to still buy them? this is probably one of my favorite sets but I might have waited too much to buy it...

Same here! I am in love with this set!

Offline hhkbp2

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 407
apparently the ergodox and colevark kits sold out in on kono, is there any way to still buy them? this is probably one of my favorite sets but I might have waited too much to buy it...

Same here! I am in love with this set!

These kits seem to be sold out too in other vendors' websites. I guess you could keep an eye on kono to check whether there is any more available after production/delivery, or check the mech market.


Offline Hotsauce

  • Posts: 23
Hi all. As a blanket response, yes this is still a thing, but the latest is SP has come up against some molding issues:

Quote
We have run into a molding issue with the tooling and at this time our lead time on completion for SA-P is uncertain.

We are again at the mercy of the Plastic Gods. I'd like to get a lead time fixed so this doesn't become another keyboard blackhole of uncertainty so no GB until we have a firm target. My black little hart wouldn't be able to take supply issues further down the line, and I'm sure none of you want any GB drams either.

Perhaps a little game of I Spy? Alternatively maybe now is the time to get done that thing you've been putting off doing? I'm off to find my passport which my past self put in a safe place that in theory my future self would either know or be able to deduce so v :)) v

I saw this posted in the Glow IC thread. Will this affect the buy?

Offline fireworm

  • Posts: 466
Hi all. As a blanket response, yes this is still a thing, but the latest is SP has come up against some molding issues:

Quote
We have run into a molding issue with the tooling and at this time our lead time on completion for SA-P is uncertain.

We are again at the mercy of the Plastic Gods. I'd like to get a lead time fixed so this doesn't become another keyboard blackhole of uncertainty so no GB until we have a firm target. My black little hart wouldn't be able to take supply issues further down the line, and I'm sure none of you want any GB drams either.

Perhaps a little game of I Spy? Alternatively maybe now is the time to get done that thing you've been putting off doing? I'm off to find my passport which my past self put in a safe place that in theory my future self would either know or be able to deduce so v :)) v

I saw this posted in the Glow IC thread. Will this affect the buy?
Not OP, but unlikely. SA Glow is PBT, this is ABS. They use different tooling entirely, IIRC.

Offline hhkbp2

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I saw this posted in the Glow IC thread. Will this affect the buy?
Not OP, but unlikely. SA Glow is PBT, this is ABS. They use different tooling entirely, IIRC.

It's not likely for SA because the production line for SA has run so many years. I don't think there is any molding issue unless SP tells me that directly for this GB.


Offline kmicu

  • Posts: 23
apparently the ergodox and colevark kits sold out in on kono, is there any way to still buy them? this is probably one of my favorite sets but I might have waited too much to buy it...

Same here! I am in love with this set!

Same here. So when the next group buy? 😺

BTW. Are we doomed to always use USA based Signature Plastics and wait another years for availability of this wonderful set?
Could we get a worse quality set from a Shenzhen shop in the meantime?

Offline hhkbp2

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Same here. So when the next group buy?

BTW. Are we doomed to always use USA based Signature Plastics and wait another years for availability of this wonderful set?
Could we get a worse quality set from a Shenzhen shop in the meantime?

There is no plan for the next. You know, the last is not delivered yet.

There exists Maxkey set of this blue/grey/cream theme. It's not related to this GB, but you could buy that if you want. Because nowadays only SP is able to make it in high quality with proper cost for so many customized legends. We have to stick to SP even though it has a long waiting queue and charges high prices. The same thing holds for GMK.
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 May 2019, 15:43:14 by hhkbp2 »

Offline AaronR

  • Posts: 111
is there any eta on new legend samples?

Offline hhkbp2

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 407
is there any eta on new legend samples?

SP said samples were ready. Not sure whether they sent it out yet. Please wait for update.

Offline kmicu

  • Posts: 23
There is no plan for the next.
Thank you so much for the answer. I’m new to this and wanted to finally buy key caps for my birthday in September
(I keep repeating to myself that once in my lifetime I could justify spending ~200 Euro for handful of plastic blocks 😹).
As a daily lisper (and Colemak(Mod DH) user) I was extremely happy to find your beautiful Space-Cadet-like set with Colevrak option.
But hey, everything, everywhere is sold out; tough love.

I’ll try to find something else with a shipping date near September.

Once more, thank you for blessing us with a such beautiful set. Amazing work. 🙇

Offline WeathermanKarlos

  • Posts: 14
Probably a little late for this, but I just noticed that the Extension kit has row 2 Page Up and row 3 Page Down, but no row 4 End for 65 percent boards. Seems a little strange, is that intentional?

Offline hhkbp2

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  • Posts: 407
Probably a little late for this, but I just noticed that the Extension kit has row 2 Page Up and row 3 Page Down, but no row 4 End for 65 percent boards. Seems a little strange, is that intentional?

To match many layouts, there should be pairs with row 3 HOME and row 4 END, row 3 INS and row 4 DEL. So that along with mod kit you got the Nav keys flowing down r1/r2/r3/r4, but these are so many keys. During the IC phase, I tried to reduce the price and removed some of them. No complain or resistance, so that it's what it's now.

Offline atxk

  • Posts: 6
New to buying keycaps, but how do pre-orders work regarding this set? Most of the kits still seems available on zFrontier, so I just want to check if I can still grab this set for my new build :p

Offline hhkbp2

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  • Posts: 407
New to buying keycaps, but how do pre-orders work regarding this set? Most of the kits still seems available on zFrontier, so I just want to check if I can still grab this set for my new build :p

Pre-order means the vendors ordered a few extra after the GB closed, and you could buy as long as they're not sold out. Your order will be shipped after vendors receive productions from SP, just like what will happen for the buyers who joined the GB.

« Last Edit: Wed, 05 June 2019, 14:52:45 by hhkbp2 »

Offline atxk

  • Posts: 6
New to buying keycaps, but how do pre-orders work regarding this set? Most of the kits still seems available on zFrontier, so I just want to check if I can still grab this set for my new build :p

Pre-order means the vendors ordered a few extra after the GB closed, and you could buy as long as they're not sold out. Your order will be shipped after vendors receive productions from SP, just like what will happen for the buyers who joined the GB.

oh damn thanks for the quick reply! I'll hop on the symbiosis train then :>

Offline Hotsauce

  • Posts: 23
"We have order acknowledgement from Signature Plastics. We received our second set of production samples and are reviewing them with the designer. Production slot is still locked in."

Any pictures?

Offline hhkbp2

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"We have order acknowledgement from Signature Plastics. We received our second set of production samples and are reviewing them with the designer. Production slot is still locked in."

Any pictures?

I have not seen any picture yet. Will let you know if there is any update or picture.  :)

Offline bardomudo

  • Posts: 125
"We have order acknowledgement from Signature Plastics. We received our second set of production samples and are reviewing them with the designer. Production slot is still locked in."

Any pictures?

I have not seen any picture yet. Will let you know if there is any update or picture.  :)

Any updates? Has Kono reached out to you yet? It's been a week since they said they received the new samples.

Offline hhkbp2

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Any updates? Has Kono reached out to you yet? It's been a week since they said they received the new samples.

Nope. Kono said they would look after it about one week ago. I would like to sit tight rather than to keep pushing them once each week. Please wait with patience. I will let you know if there is any update.

Offline nappis

  • Posts: 66
Last time Kono received samples they added pictures on their web site. Now they are not updating the site and they are keeping designer in the dark. I hope the lack of update does not mean that the new samples are ****e.

Offline hhkbp2

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Last time Kono received samples they added pictures on their web site. Now they are not updating the site and they are keeping designer in the dark. I hope the lack of update does not mean that the new samples are ****e.

I guess probably they are just busy with something else.  :))

Offline mimalik

  • Posts: 376
I ordered and received SA Troubled Minds and GMK Calm Depths, they may not be the quickest for the updates, but they come through, in my exp so far; so as OP said, keep calm n sit tight.

Offline bardomudo

  • Posts: 125
I contacted Kono and politely asked about the new samples image. They said they sent it to hhkbp2 and would update the site soon with it, but in case people here want to check it out earlier, they sent it to me as well and I'm posting them.

I resized and put them side-by-side with the old/first samples so we can better see the changes in proportion. At least to me, they look great now.


Offline gbchk

  • Posts: 90
Looks way better. Did they change the color as well? The old image looks like the standard R5/R6 grey color, while the new looks like the Cadet grey.

Offline bardomudo

  • Posts: 125
Looks way better. Did they change the color as well? The old image looks like the standard R5/R6 grey color, while the new looks like the Cadet grey.

They could have changed the color, but as a former professional photographer with 10 years of experience, I can assure you the difference in color we see could also have been easily caused by difference in white balance and lighting.

The first/old image looks warmer to me, with a bit of red in there, while the second looks cooler. That's often how grey reacts with small changes in white balance. Judging by the white, the second/newer image looks more accurate to my eyes and my calibrated monitor.

Offline DukeEsquire

  • Posts: 596
Awesome. Love the new samples!

Offline buzzking00

  • Posts: 82
I contacted Kono and politely asked about the new samples image. They said they sent it to hhkbp2 and would update the site soon with it, but in case people here want to check it out earlier, they sent it to me as well and I'm posting them.

I resized and put them side-by-side with the old/first samples so we can better see the changes in proportion. At least to me, they look great now.

Show Image


Thanks for the picture :)

Can't wait to get my set!

Offline hottrout

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Would anyone here be prepared to sell me their UK RETURN key and if possible an ESC key in the yellow?
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Offline Hotsauce

  • Posts: 23
Those samples are HOT! :eek: I like the way things are going.  :p

Offline qq

  • Posts: 56
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
  • A daydreamer of possibilities
Would anyone here be prepared to sell me their UK RETURN key and if possible an ESC key in the yellow?

In the worst case, kits that have them are still available on the Kono site.

Offline hhkbp2

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 407
I contacted Kono and politely asked about the new samples image. They said they sent it to hhkbp2 and would update the site soon with it, but in case people here want to check it out earlier, they sent it to me as well and I'm posting them.

I resized and put them side-by-side with the old/first samples so we can better see the changes in proportion. At least to me, they look great now.

Show Image


Thanks. I'm reviewing these samples with Kono these two days. Some other photos were taken:





These legends on latest samples were improved. The sizes of symbols were enlarged, compared to previous run of samples. They are slightly larger than symbols of number row, but not too large to be uncoordinated, which is true to the artworks. Line weights are big enough and positions are consistent. These samples look nice.
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 June 2019, 00:01:43 by hhkbp2 »

Offline hhkbp2

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Looks way better. Did they change the color as well? The old image looks like the standard R5/R6 grey color, while the new looks like the Cadet grey.

They could have changed the color, but as a former professional photographer with 10 years of experience, I can assure you the difference in color we see could also have been easily caused by difference in white balance and lighting.

The first/old image looks warmer to me, with a bit of red in there, while the second looks cooler. That's often how grey reacts with small changes in white balance. Judging by the white, the second/newer image looks more accurate to my eyes and my calibrated monitor.

You're right. Usually it's not easy to present colors precisely via pictures. The colors of both runs of samples were the same.

Offline Taques

  • Posts: 26
Endgame set confirmed, these look freakin' amazing.

Offline hhkbp2

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SP told me that the artwork of novelties "symbiosis" that I gave them before was too big to fit a 2.25u legendable area. I would make it smaller to fit and change the legend to "symbolics" so that it looks better even when becoming smaller. It's a minor change but I would like to let you guys know.



SP is cutting the legends for the production. They don't have the specific date to start the production yet but it's coming closer. It's a long time for this run but the finishing line is in sight. Cheers!

« Last Edit: Fri, 28 June 2019, 14:58:56 by hhkbp2 »

Offline bardomudo

  • Posts: 125
SP told me that the artwork of novelties "symbiosis" that I gave them before was too big to fit a 2.25u legendable area. I would make it smaller to fit and change the legend to "symbolics" so that it looks better even when becoming smaller. It's a minor change but I would like to let you guys know.

Show Image


SP is cutting the legends for the production. They don't have the specific date to start the production yet but it's coming closer. It's a long time for this run but the finishing line is in sight. Cheers!

I'd take the Symbolics over the Symbiosis legend any day. Just my 2c.

Offline mimalik

  • Posts: 376
kono's portal is giving out 502 error, do they not exist anymore? Sincerely hope that its a technical error. too invested in this set.

Offline hhkbp2

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kono's portal is giving out 502 error, do they not exist anymore? Sincerely hope that its a technical error. too invested in this set.

I guess so. You know, it's too silly for Kono to vanish now before SP starts production and delivers after paying the money for the order and doing all these sample runs.  :))

Offline cijanzen

  • Posts: 604
kono's portal is giving out 502 error, do they not exist anymore? Sincerely hope that its a technical error. too invested in this set.

Shopify sites are down right now

Offline phinix

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Is that SA Hacker something you gonna run soon?
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Offline hottrout

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Is that SA Hacker something you gonna run soon?

I also am watching that very closely.  Looks great I think.
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Offline hhkbp2

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Is that SA Hacker something you gonna run soon?

I also am watching that very closely.  Looks great I think.

Thanks. I did many things for it but I'm still hesitant about whether/when/how to run it. No specific schedule yet.


Offline bardomudo

  • Posts: 125
Do you think the September timeline Kono still lists as locked in will be indeed come to fruition?

Offline jimboytacos

  • Posts: 235
I'd like to know this as well. KONO's updates states that this set will be shipping in September. That means this set must be in production or nearing production soon I'm order to hit they deadline?

Offline hhkbp2

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 407
Do you think the September timeline Kono still lists as locked in will be indeed come to fruition?

I'd like to know this as well. KONO's updates states that this set will be shipping in September. That means this set must be in production or nearing production soon I'm order to hit they deadline?

I still need some time to tune the alphas legends. The last cut of alphas legends looked probably too big when paired with the whole number row together, and I would like to give another try on using the standard sizes for these legends. This was not going on very well. It needs communication and cooperation between me, Kono and SP, like it used to. But I have not heard from Kono for a while. Have no idea what kept they so busy that they did not even have the time to take a look at the emails and reply.

But in the other hand, SP told me that some other kits had been in production. They were quite rushed to do the production run while I was still verifying and tuning the legends.

I got no much info about the whole plan of SP production dates and Kono delivery dates, etc. Kono should be in charge of all these and do the coordination but Kono was absent these days. It's hard for me to estimate the actual shipping date under current situation. I suspect there will be delay but I don't have a clear idea of that. Sorry I don't have the answers of your questions for now.

Offline yap68

  • Posts: 124
Sounds bad, man.

Will Kono become another zFrontier?
« Last Edit: Fri, 26 July 2019, 05:37:43 by yap68 »

Offline cijanzen

  • Posts: 604
Do you think the September timeline Kono still lists as locked in will be indeed come to fruition?

I'd like to know this as well. KONO's updates states that this set will be shipping in September. That means this set must be in production or nearing production soon I'm order to hit they deadline?

I still need some time to tune the alphas legends. The last cut of alphas legends looked probably too big when paired with the whole number row together, and I would like to give another try on using the standard sizes for these legends. This was not going on very well. It needs communication and cooperation between me, Kono and SP, like it used to. But I have not heard from Kono for a while. Have no idea what kept they so busy that they did not even have the time to take a look at the emails and reply.

But in the other hand, SP told me that some other kits had been in production. They were quite rushed to do the production run while I was still verifying and tuning the legends.

I got no much info about the whole plan of SP production dates and Kono delivery dates, etc. Kono should be in charge of all these and do the coordination but Kono was absent these days. It's hard for me to estimate the actual shipping date under current situation. I suspect there will be delay but I don't have a clear idea of that. Sorry I don't have the answers of your questions for now.

Thanks for the clarity and honesty, that goes a long ways, and at least you’re communicating even if Kono is not!

Offline nappis

  • Posts: 66
I still need some time to tune the alphas legends. The last cut of alphas legends looked probably too big when paired with the whole number row together, and I would like to give another try on using the standard sizes for these legends.
Standard SP SA R1 number row legends were too small next to Symbiosis 2.0 second iteration R2 alphas? V2 alphas looked good to me. How can you have too big legends on SA caps...?  :))

7bit legends are really pushing the cap boundaries and they look great!

Offline Hotsauce

  • Posts: 23
From what I understand 7bit used his own, or another font for certain legends?

Offline OnceS

  • Posts: 69
Is this SA Space Cadet with a new name or have I mistaken?
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Offline fireworm

  • Posts: 466
Is this SA Space Cadet with a new name or have I mistaken?
If you are talking about GMK Space Cadet, but in SA profile, no. That is Oblotzky's  creation. He has minimal, or no ties with this keyset.

This is Symbiosis R2, a play on "Symbolics", the manufacturer name of that Space Cadet keyboard.