Post by: BlueNalgene on Sat, 15 August 2015, 18:26:15
The world is a sad place.
The Middle East is a mess,
Cold War tensions are rising again,
and Alps switches just get no love.
Our community is complacent with cruciform artisans and glorified rubber domes.
We need to get back to the glory days.
(http://i.imgur.com/km8mDib.jpg?1)
And only another round of DIY glory can correct this.
(http://i.imgur.com/aWkhXYH.png)
So follow me to the:
ALPS Party 3-60(%)
The Middle East is a mess,
Cold War tensions are rising again,
and Alps switches just get no love.
Our community is complacent with cruciform artisans and glorified rubber domes.
We need to get back to the glory days.
(http://i.imgur.com/km8mDib.jpg?1)
And only another round of DIY glory can correct this.
(http://i.imgur.com/aWkhXYH.png)
So follow me to the:
ALPS Party 3-60(%)
To prepare for expansion of our Liberte Egalite Fraternite, please indicate which and what quantity of the provisions you will need:
1. PCB
I've spoken with the very talented Hasu about when he wants to run round 3 of his 60% PCB print. He told me that he wanted to have a guaranteed number of [REDACTED] before running the buy. This is a very low risk option, since this is a very established board with quite a few successful builds. The firmware can be customized to do just about anything but julienne fries. Hasu has a long history of supporting his work to make sure you know how to make the thing go.
Here is the thread for his round 2 GB of the pcb. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69740.msg1674818#msg1674818)
He also has an IC for the next round of PCBs which I encourage you to fill out (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/12FOyWNbCzO9AN24FDqm_Vwh-VCp_OWFi8qdQOL_7P-4/viewform?c=0&w=1) if you want to get a robo-email from the man himself *swoon* for updates about the next PCB printing.
Last time, the assembled pcb was $35.
2. Plate
JDCarpe's AEK II 60% happens to match up like a dream with the PCB. What a coincidence! It's almost as if they planned it like that. I sent a message to Nubbinator, who was in charge of the group buy, about setting up round 2 of his GB and he was receptive. He noted that he wanted to get a minimum number of commits totaling [REDACTED] before running the print so we get a good price point. What's that you ask? Why yes that is the same number as Hasu wanted. These two puppies, plate and pcb, pair up like peas in pod and you people would please me if we perchance purchased the perfect set at the same time. While talking with the handsome Mr. Nubbs, he intimated that if we get a high enough interest, we could look into powder coated stainless finishes for the plates.
Here is the thread for his GB of the plate. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71416.msg1729978#msg1729978)
Last time, a plate cost $29 to waterjet.
3. Switches
I don't know about you lot, but I have a few ALPS boards laying around just waiting to be cannibalized for their switches. There may be some interest in doing a bulk deal on some Matias switches. What would you folk like, clicky? quiet? I don't have a price check for this, but if there is enough interest (*cough* at least 60x[REDACTED] *cough*) I will get some quotes.
4. :llama: :llama: :llama:
If there is interest in this party, maybe I will put some extra effort in and add a little incentive to join the buy. I have some experiments going right now that would be relevant to the project. Without saying too much, let's just say it would be taking a leaf from Booper's book for running a popular GB. Maybe. We'll see. No promises here, only tantalizing hints.
5. Caps
Nope. I'm not doing caps as part of this IC/GB. Getting a full run from a company like PMK would require a much bigger commit size. There are also no perfect sets ready to buy. There was a cool massdrop the other day for full alps sets. There might be some leftovers around soon. Or there are plenty of used boards out there to scavenge from.
FAQ
q) What if I want/need something that you didn't include on the OP?
a) Tell me, I'm riding by the seat of my pants here.
q) Will you be offering assembly?
a) Nope, and you probably wouldn't want it if I was. Hasu might be persuaded into doing it though.
q) You have no GB experience, how do I know you aren't some skeezeball who will abscond with my hard earned liquid capital?
a) I can't prove I'm reliable. I can only promise that I will try my dammedest to not knowingly screw you over. I'm a long time forum denizen which may not be apparent from my low post count. I lurked for a while before joining almost a year ago. I have a few successful trades/purchases on here, and they might be able to provide a good reference if you require it.
q) Why are you doing this instead of waiting on the original creators?
a) Because I want one dammit, and you can't get anything done around here without a committee. grumblegrumblegrumble
q)else?
a)goto 10
q) I don't get the Napoleon thing.
a) That isn't a question.
q) What's the deal with the Napoleon thing?
a) Crossing the ALPS, get it? GET IT? Look, did you people learn your history at all? It was pretty much this or Hannibal puns - jokes about Charlemagne don't play well in this city.
Edit: 8/15/2015 ~7:45pm - fixed some mistakes with the plate.
Post by: Lurch on Sat, 15 August 2015, 19:17:17
I am very interested.
Post by: jbondeson on Sat, 15 August 2015, 19:29:44
Very interested.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 15 August 2015, 20:20:48
Will you be offering the plates and PCBs as separate items? I'll probably want an extra PCB but I might hold off for a different plate (the PCB supports other layouts).
You may also want to check with JD because I think there was some talk about a Dell-layout plate buy. Maybe it's possible to offer both as part of the same order? I'm not an expert at laser/water jet cutting but since the plates would be almost identical save for a few bottom row cutouts, I'd have to think a shop would be willing to count both towards the same MOQ.
Finally, I'd be down with the idea of paying a bit extra for a powder-coated plate. And maybe some Matias quiets if they're offered (if not, mechanicalkeyboards.com sells them for a reasonable price).
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 15 August 2015, 20:50:21
Post by: dante on Sat, 15 August 2015, 21:05:01
I know you said you weren't doing keycaps but Matias is selling them now. Maybe you could get a deal just for 60%? If the stabilizer matches Matias that simply means it will be ready to go once the thick dyesubs are ready.
Have you thought about Sprits custom Alps spring thread?
Or getting unassembled switches from Matias for modding? Black Alps are probably my favorite due to weight but they don't age well and are hard to find brand new. I'd probably experiment with Matias switches with 80g+ springs.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 15 August 2015, 21:39:08
Some ideas:
I know you said you weren't doing keycaps but Matias is selling them now. Maybe you could get a deal just for 60%? If the stabilizer matches Matias that simply means it will be ready to go once the thick dyesubs are ready.
Have you thought about Sprits custom Alps spring thread?
Or getting unassembled switches from Matias for modding? Black Alps are probably my favorite due to weight but they don't age well and are hard to find brand new. I'd probably experiment with Matias switches with 80g+ springs.
Hmm, this is a good point. Sprit's GB still hasn't happened, maybe this would be a good chance to get that going again. I really like the idea of Matias Quiets with heavier springs.
Post by: zenless on Sat, 15 August 2015, 22:39:21
Post by: manofinterests on Sun, 16 August 2015, 00:36:13
Post by: CommonCurt on Sun, 16 August 2015, 01:37:11
You may also want to check with JD because I think there was some talk about a Dell-layout plate buy. Maybe it's possible to offer both as part of the same order? I'm not an expert at laser/water jet cutting but since the plates would be almost identical save for a few bottom row cutouts, I'd have to think a shop would be willing to count both towards the same MOQ.
+1 Would really like to get a Dell layout plate. Preferably the winkeyless AT101, but I could live with the AT101W layout also.
Post by: JaccoW on Sun, 16 August 2015, 06:10:01
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 16 August 2015, 07:45:18
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Sun, 16 August 2015, 10:37:52
Post by: blcksqrrl on Sun, 16 August 2015, 11:22:59
Post by: trustinkiss on Sun, 16 August 2015, 11:52:45
Post by: njbair on Sun, 16 August 2015, 14:59:40
Any chance of adding a case into the mix for the complete experience? :D
Ooo, maybe a nice wooden deal with an embossed Alps on the bottom:
[attach=1]
Post by: primered6 on Sun, 16 August 2015, 18:23:45
:D :D :D
Post by: BlueNalgene on Sun, 16 August 2015, 20:01:03
As someone who already has two Alps 60% boards, I am so totally in on this for at least one more.
Will you be offering the plates and PCBs as separate items? I'll probably want an extra PCB but I might hold off for a different plate (the PCB supports other layouts).
You may also want to check with JD because I think there was some talk about a Dell-layout plate buy. Maybe it's possible to offer both as part of the same order? I'm not an expert at laser/water jet cutting but since the plates would be almost identical save for a few bottom row cutouts, I'd have to think a shop would be willing to count both towards the same MOQ.
Finally, I'd be down with the idea of paying a bit extra for a powder-coated plate. And maybe some Matias quiets if they're offered (if not, mechanicalkeyboards.com sells them for a reasonable price).
Plates and PCBs will be separate.
I've sent a PM to JD about plates, so I will let you lot know when I have an update. I would prefer to do a plate which would work for as many layouts as possible. A group buy is probably most successful when the variety of items offered is low but the capability is high.
Some ideas:
I know you said you weren't doing keycaps but Matias is selling them now. Maybe you could get a deal just for 60%? If the stabilizer matches Matias that simply means it will be ready to go once the thick dyesubs are ready.
Have you thought about Sprits custom Alps spring thread?
Or getting unassembled switches from Matias for modding? Black Alps are probably my favorite due to weight but they don't age well and are hard to find brand new. I'd probably experiment with Matias switches with 80g+ springs.
I could contact Matias about 60% sets if there is sufficient interest. However, I'm not sure it would get us any good discount unless they produced a special round of caps with less modifiers. Then we run into a more complicated problem. If we start changing over to a universal plate, more variety in mods would be needed. I think the GB would be most successful if we don't bother with caps. This lets the user have more choice in the matter of which set to use. ....but this isn't about my opinions alone. If there is sufficient interest in caps, I will look into our options.
A combo GB with Sprits would be brilliant. I'll work on that.
I think finding out Sprit's plan before contacting Matias about disassembled switches would be wise. But I will make a note of this.
Post by: njbair on Sun, 16 August 2015, 20:03:53
As someone who already has two Alps 60% boards, I am so totally in on this for at least one more.
Will you be offering the plates and PCBs as separate items? I'll probably want an extra PCB but I might hold off for a different plate (the PCB supports other layouts).
You may also want to check with JD because I think there was some talk about a Dell-layout plate buy. Maybe it's possible to offer both as part of the same order? I'm not an expert at laser/water jet cutting but since the plates would be almost identical save for a few bottom row cutouts, I'd have to think a shop would be willing to count both towards the same MOQ.
Finally, I'd be down with the idea of paying a bit extra for a powder-coated plate. And maybe some Matias quiets if they're offered (if not, mechanicalkeyboards.com sells them for a reasonable price).
Plates and PCBs will be separate.
I've sent a PM to JD about plates, so I will let you lot know when I have an update. I would prefer to do a plate which would work for as many layouts as possible. A group buy is probably most successful when the variety of items offered is low but the capability is high.Some ideas:
I know you said you weren't doing keycaps but Matias is selling them now. Maybe you could get a deal just for 60%? If the stabilizer matches Matias that simply means it will be ready to go once the thick dyesubs are ready.
Have you thought about Sprits custom Alps spring thread?
Or getting unassembled switches from Matias for modding? Black Alps are probably my favorite due to weight but they don't age well and are hard to find brand new. I'd probably experiment with Matias switches with 80g+ springs.
I could contact Matias about 60% sets if there is sufficient interest. However, I'm not sure it would get us any good discount unless they produced a special round of caps with less modifiers. Then we run into a more complicated problem. If we start changing over to a universal plate, more variety in mods would be needed. I think the GB would be most successful if we don't bother with caps. This lets the user have more choice in the matter of which set to use. ....but this isn't about my opinions alone. If there is sufficient interest in caps, I will look into our options.
A combo GB with Sprits would be brilliant. I'll work on that.
I think finding out Sprit's plan before contacting Matias about disassembled switches would be wise. But I will make a note of this.
Can you make a plate with support for multiple layouts? I'm not sure how that would work.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Sun, 16 August 2015, 20:10:48
Can you make a plate with support for multiple layouts? I'm not sure how that would work.
Check out the plate JDCarpe designed for the LeandreN GB. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73666.0)
Post by: njbair on Sun, 16 August 2015, 20:13:15
Can you make a plate with support for multiple layouts? I'm not sure how that would work.
Check out the plate JDCarpe designed for the LeandreN GB. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73666.0)
Interesting. I would think those wide-open bottom holes wouldn't work with Alps switches, since the retainer clip wings are on the sides of the switches.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Sun, 16 August 2015, 20:15:46
Can you make a plate with support for multiple layouts? I'm not sure how that would work.
Check out the plate JDCarpe designed for the LeandreN GB. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73666.0)
Interesting. I would think those wide-open bottom holes wouldn't work with Alps switches, since the retainer clip wings are on the sides of the switches.
I have consulted the oracle for information.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 17 August 2015, 18:36:31
So there goes that amazing idea. Now we move on. A certain tall, handsome moderator was kind enough to add a poll to the OP at my request. I ask you to take it. What kind of plate should this prospective GB focus on? Dell, AEK, or other?
Post by: jbondeson on Mon, 17 August 2015, 19:12:59
Post by: dante on Mon, 17 August 2015, 19:35:05
Post by: njbair on Mon, 17 August 2015, 19:42:56
But I still think there's no reason why the waterjet or laser cutting shop couldn't make both as part of the same MOQ. It would take 5 seconds to switch programs in between runs and that's it. Can we look into this option?
Post by: CommonCurt on Mon, 17 August 2015, 20:26:41
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 17 August 2015, 20:31:00
I voted other - I only want Matias setup. Thick dyesub of the future!
Just to make sure we're on the same page, do you mean the layout Matias uses for their 60%?
I voted for Dell ANSI, somewhat selfishly since I already have an R2 AEKII plate.
But I still think there's no reason why the waterjet or laser cutting shop couldn't make both as part of the same MOQ. It would take 5 seconds to switch programs in between runs and that's it. Can we look into this option?
We can look into it, but I want to know what has the highest priority, should there be a low MOQ.
Post by: dante on Mon, 17 August 2015, 21:10:50
I voted other - I only want Matias setup. Thick dyesub of the future!
Just to make sure we're on the same page, do you mean the layout Matias uses for their 60%?
I was referring to a 60% of their fullsize.
Post by: njbair on Mon, 17 August 2015, 21:31:06
I voted other - I only want Matias setup. Thick dyesub of the future!
Just to make sure we're on the same page, do you mean the layout Matias uses for their 60%?
I was referring to a 60% of their fullsize.
Matias has stated here on GH that once their PBT tooling is ready, they'll be producing keycaps for other layouts as well.
Post by: Applet on Tue, 18 August 2015, 07:29:40
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 18 August 2015, 15:29:16
Is anyone considering using Cherry stabs? I think it might be cleaner with Costar only, but I want people to have the ability to work with what they want.
I'm not confident about the hole in the center. It looks like that was present on the original AEKII 60% run. Did anyone notice any weakness on the switch edges near that hole?
(http://i.imgur.com/5Ao9vt4.png)
Post by: Applet on Tue, 18 August 2015, 16:36:16
EDIT:
Or, is that just for the cherry and alps-switch compatibility on the same plate? I am confused...
Post by: njbair on Tue, 18 August 2015, 21:44:24
I did a quick version of a Dell plate with Swill's generator. I haven't compared it to the PCB yet. I'm looking for obvious errors that others might notice.
Is anyone considering using Cherry stabs? I think it might be cleaner with Costar only, but I want people to have the ability to work with what they want.
I'm not confident about the hole in the center. It looks like that was present on the original AEKII 60% run. Did anyone notice any weakness on the switch edges near that hole?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5Ao9vt4.png)
We can leave Cherry stabs off of the plate in favor of the dual Costar/Alps stab design Applet linked to above.
As far as the center hole, it does break into the switch pockets but it doesn't significantly affect the strength of the plate. It's fine.
I have no experience in plate design, but, I thought this (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60268.msg1486047#msg1486047) looked kinda neat. Then you could choose between Cherry and Alps-style stabilizers?
EDIT:
Or, is that just for the cherry and alps-switch compatibility on the same plate? I am confused...
This is indeed the ideal way to do stabs on an Alps plate. It will work with Matias and older Alps caps which have true Alps rectangular stab slots, as well as SP Alps caps which have Cherry-style cruciform stab slots.
Post by: gogusrl on Fri, 21 August 2015, 12:27:37
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 25 August 2015, 15:14:47
Super interested in this. I need to impress SenpaiBadAss.
Post by: JaccoW on Tue, 25 August 2015, 15:42:19
Post by: njbair on Wed, 26 August 2015, 08:05:05
What are the differences between the various layouts?
The difference is the bottom row.
Dell ANSI has a standard bottom row: 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 6.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25. You can use caps from a Dell AT101W, which are quite common.
AEKII refers to the Apple Extended Keyboard II, which has a unique bottom row: 1.5, 1.25, 1.5, 6.5, 1.5, 1.25, 1.5.
So really your preference would be whichever board you have and are willing to steal caps from.
Post by: JaccoW on Wed, 26 August 2015, 10:32:26
That is a clear answer. :)What are the differences between the various layouts?
The difference is the bottom row.
Dell ANSI has a standard bottom row: 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 6.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25. You can use caps from a Dell AT101W, which are quite common.
AEKII refers to the Apple Extended Keyboard II, which has a unique bottom row: 1.5, 1.25, 1.5, 6.5, 1.5, 1.25, 1.5.
So really your preference would be whichever board you have and are willing to steal caps from.
I was planning to use it with the Alps DCS Infinity mods (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70817.0) anyway so I'm probably good either way. Well, except for the spacebar.
Post by: fishcola on Fri, 28 August 2015, 22:14:04
I'm new to diy-ing keyboards, but I need to start somewhere; I'm interested in harvesting an old AEK for salmon switches... are *all* alps switches compatible with the hasu pcb? I know at least internally, they're very different but I'm not sure about pin layouts across all the switches.
EDIT: oops, question answered, should have paid more attention to OP links.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 02 September 2015, 10:35:57
It has been a busy few weeks for me with GF staying over, taking a class, volunteer work, writing a dissertation, etc. But I want to drop an update so people know where we are at.
1. PCB - If the number of people who responded to the survey is any clue, then I think we will easily reach the minimum order for some Hasu PCBs. I haven't done anything on this because I'm pretty confident with where it stands right now.
2. Plate - Aaaand survey says.... we are pretty split on the AEK/Dell issue. I say we offer both. I posted a Dell mockup earlier in the thread, and I want to change a few things like the stabilizer holes on it, then it should be good to go. Unless anyone has any requests for plate features, I will probably just use the same AEKII by JDCarpe from the Nubbinator GB.
3. Switches - There wasn't a huge outcry for a Matias buy. So that probably won't happen. I'm still holding out hope that we can time things with Sprit, if he is even still among us.
4.
More
(http://i.imgur.com/KL4dGbC.jpg)
Post by: cooldiscretion on Wed, 02 September 2015, 11:13:36
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:32:54
I'm interested in acquiring some switches somehow. Any idea what quantities we'd need to achieve some price break? If need be, I can just place an order straight from Matias.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:51:21
Oops, I didn't realize I was supposed to express interest in switches. :-[ ;D
I'm interested in acquiring some switches somehow. Any idea what quantities we'd need to achieve some price break? If need be, I can just place an order straight from Matias.
I remember reading a post where someone had contacted Matias about GB price points with a mention of custom quotes for some larger orders. I can't find it now, my GH-search-fu is not bringing up the post.
The 200 count box is the baseline price at $50+$10. You can get a better deal at a reseller for that quantity. He also offers a 4800 count carton with a more reasonable unit price.
So unless we can work out a deal with Matias, the minimum order would be 4800 switches, aka enough for 80 of these boards. And that is only for one style of switch. It seems like a big hurdle.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:56:54
The 200 count box is the baseline price at $50+$10. You can get a better deal at a reseller for that quantity. He also offers a 4800 count carton with a more reasonable unit price.
A reseller? O.o I poked around a few of the reseller links on Matias' site, but only found keyboards for sale, not switches. Any help on where to find them? :D
Thanks for the info on bulk prices, that basically puts an end to that discussion. :))
Post by: Lurch on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:59:35
A bit extra work to get some complicated ALPS, but I'm not crazy about newer Matias switches. They don't feel as good as complicated ALPS, IMO.
I will be working on hunting down some SKCM Blue ALPS for this build.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 02 September 2015, 13:01:28
The 200 count box is the baseline price at $50+$10. You can get a better deal at a reseller for that quantity. He also offers a 4800 count carton with a more reasonable unit price.
A reseller? O.o I poked around a few of the reseller links on Matias' site, but only found keyboards for sale, not switches. Any help on where to find them? :D
Thanks for the info on bulk prices, that basically puts an end to that discussion. :))
The reseller link for the US is here (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=52), and the link for Europe is here (http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_search.asp?SR=matias%20switch%20module&UI=matias.ca).
I went ahead and requested a quote for the bulk prices. It doesn't hurt to ask, they might be able to hook us up with a mix and match carton of switches.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 02 September 2015, 13:34:30
The 200 count box is the baseline price at $50+$10. You can get a better deal at a reseller for that quantity. He also offers a 4800 count carton with a more reasonable unit price.
A reseller? O.o I poked around a few of the reseller links on Matias' site, but only found keyboards for sale, not switches. Any help on where to find them? :D
Thanks for the info on bulk prices, that basically puts an end to that discussion. :))
The reseller link for the US is here (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=52), and the link for Europe is here (http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_search.asp?SR=matias%20switch%20module&UI=matias.ca).
I went ahead and requested a quote for the bulk prices. It doesn't hurt to ask, they might be able to hook us up with a mix and match carton of switches.
Thanks for the links. :thumb: Looks like the resellers are actually more expensive though? O.o 33 cents per switch at reseller vs 25 cents per switch straight from Matias.
FWIW, I was able to purchase two Apple M0116 keyboards from ebay for about $30 shipped, each. One has very clean salmon ALPS, an the other has dirty orange ALPS. From my understanding cleaning ALPS switches is kind of a PITA, but you might get lucky and get a clean board.
A bit extra work to get some complicated ALPS, but I'm not crazy about newer Matias switches. They don't feel as good as complicated ALPS, IMO.
I will be working on hunting down some SKCM Blue ALPS for this build.
Hmm, may consider this. I really should have paid attention when CPTBadAss smothered me with Alps info... :-[ No clue what switches I would want...
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 02 September 2015, 13:52:02
The 200 count box is the baseline price at $50+$10. You can get a better deal at a reseller for that quantity. He also offers a 4800 count carton with a more reasonable unit price.
A reseller? O.o I poked around a few of the reseller links on Matias' site, but only found keyboards for sale, not switches. Any help on where to find them? :D
Thanks for the info on bulk prices, that basically puts an end to that discussion. :))
The reseller link for the US is here (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=52), and the link for Europe is here (http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_search.asp?SR=matias%20switch%20module&UI=matias.ca).
I went ahead and requested a quote for the bulk prices. It doesn't hurt to ask, they might be able to hook us up with a mix and match carton of switches.
Thanks for the links. :thumb: Looks like the resellers are actually more expensive though? O.o 33 cents per switch at reseller vs 25 cents per switch straight from Matias.
More like $0.30 from Matias when you factor in the shipping cost. The resellers will be more expensive (they want to make a profit), but if you are buying 200 switches for a 60 switch board, you might benefit from a smaller purchase.
Someone might still have an Alps switch tester if you plan on scavenging. I can't wait to put my Linear Greens on something though.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 02 September 2015, 13:53:57
FWIW, I was able to purchase two Apple M0116 keyboards from ebay for about $30 shipped, each. One has very clean salmon ALPS, an the other has dirty orange ALPS. From my understanding cleaning ALPS switches is kind of a PITA, but you might get lucky and get a clean board.
A bit extra work to get some complicated ALPS, but I'm not crazy about newer Matias switches. They don't feel as good as complicated ALPS, IMO.
I will be working on hunting down some SKCM Blue ALPS for this build.
Shouldn't be too hard to clean them honestly. You don't have to desolder Alps switches to open them up, which makes things easier if you're lazy.
Hmm, may consider this. I really should have paid attention when CPTBadAss smothered me with Alps info... :-[ No clue what switches I would want...
This is why we can't have nice things. I try to help you out but pfft :P
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 02 September 2015, 14:08:33
Hmm, may consider this. I really should have paid attention when CPTBadAss smothered me with Alps info... :-[ No clue what switches I would want...
This is why we can't have nice things. I try to help you out but pfft :P
[/quote]
Boy howdy, it sure would be a relevant time for someone to put a link to the thread with a bunch of Alps reviews. You wouldn't happen to know someone who would have a bunch of those reviews, would you CPT?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 02 September 2015, 14:12:51
I vote for Chyros' reviews XD
Post by: Lurch on Wed, 02 September 2015, 14:14:08
What are Alps? :cool:
I vote for Chyros' reviews XD
The Alps cover 65% of Switzerland's surface area (41,285 km˛), making it one of the most alpine countries. Despite the fact that Switzerland covers only 14% of the Alps total area (192,753 km˛),[2][3] many alpine four-thousanders (48 of 82) are located in the Swiss Alps and practically all of the remaining few are within 20 km of the country's border.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 02 September 2015, 14:48:38
So I just got off the phone with the charming Steve McGowan, one of the co-founders of Matias, and he gave me a price breakdown of what he can offer for our GB.
For orders of
200-1000 switches, the unit price is $0.25 each
1200-2200 - $0.20 each
2400-4400 - $0.18 each
4800-9400 - $0.16 each
9600+ - $0.14 each
Additionally, if we can breach the 9600 threshold, the 9600 switches can be mixed between the click, quiet, and linear quiet in groups of 200. E.g. if we want 4000 click, 2200 quiet, and 3800 linear quiet - we would get the $0.14 price. However, if we only could reach 2000 click, 2000 quiet, and 2000 linear quiet, we would be paying the $0.20 price.
SO - we can make this happen if we want. If we can collectively decide to buy enough switches, we can get a good deal and spread the gospel of Alps.
All you enterprising individuals that like to squirrel away GB extras for trades - take heed. Your time is nigh!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 02 September 2015, 14:51:14
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 02 September 2015, 14:58:01
Can we order just switches in this GB?
You can. The plan is for the sale to be piecemeal. To save on shipping costs, if you order more than one thing, I will pack up a little kit for you when your order is ready to ship - complete with an encouraging note from mother for your first day at Alps camp.
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 02 September 2015, 14:59:44
Also, since this is kind of a concept-keyboard at this point, some custom caps would be awesome. Not a full set, but an "Alps Party" Esc-cap would be sweet.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 02 September 2015, 15:07:19
What are Alps? :cool:
I vote for Chyros' reviews XD
Chryos Reviews based on Alps switch
Acer switches (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1eKR2SdKdo)
SKCM White (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpawdi_pR-w)
AT101 showdown (Alps Salmon vs. Black) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI0oBy-fL1w)
Monterey Blue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6t85Vb4gck)
SKCM Cream/Ivory (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDMQH-EoCK8)
SKCM Blue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS3V3BaDSrE)
OA2 Clone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG6vO7ijACU)
SKCM Salmon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phWBHfEn9Pk)
AEK showdown (Alps Salmon vs. Ivory) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN5jYK3bZUI)
SKCM White (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZpCZNh6jG8)
SKCM Black (early) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX_MybBYuME)
SKCM White again (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvGzDY10Pyk)
SKCM Black (late) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brsMUSFupO4)
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 02 September 2015, 15:07:43
So a split GB with plates, switches and PCBs? Seems like the best solution.
Also, since this is kind of a concept-keyboard at this point, some custom caps would be awesome. Not a full set, but an "Alps Party" Esc-cap would be sweet.
:llama:
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 02 September 2015, 15:09:26
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 02 September 2015, 15:14:57
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 02 September 2015, 15:23:57
Boy howdy, it sure would be a relevant time for someone to put a link to the thread with a bunch of Alps reviews. You wouldn't happen to know someone who would have a bunch of those reviews, would you CPT?
I surprised myself at how many reviews I've written about Alps. Here's my list. I like chyros' stuff better (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854189#msg1854189).
Mr Interface Switch Bag (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41117.0#post_Alps)
Dell AT101W with Black Alps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41868.0)
Early Chicago and Nashville Meetups where I try more Alps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42669.0)
Northgate Omnikey with Blue Alps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54201.msg1213820#msg1213820)
My thoughts on Alps vs MX (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60288.0)
Kingsaver with Blue Alps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58776.msg1343574#msg1343574)
V80 with Matias Alps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73438.0)
Post by: primered6 on Wed, 02 September 2015, 16:15:55
Though on a side note:
It seems like a great deal of luck came my way when the ALPS Olivette set rolled onto Massdrop. :D
As I've only got the Dell AT102W (UK ISO), Which is awesome but sadly not very good when I need ANSI caps in the UK, which are surprisingly hard to find on ebay for cheap.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 02 September 2015, 16:27:19
I see people are interested in the magic that is Alps! Always a good idea - Alps switches are great ^^ . The majority of my 30+ boards are Alps or Alps-like and I like most or all of them.
Here's my thoughts on various Alps switches in a nutshell. All of them have their pros and cons. Here's some stuff on the things you mentioned so far:
SKCM Black: By far the most forthcoming. The tactility is rather drawn out which gives it a vaguely linear feel, making it rather versatile. Although underrated IMO, these are my least favourite Alps.
SKCM Salmon: These are some of the best Alps switches around, probably my favourites after blues. Very smooth, nice tactility, great sound. EARLY black Alps have a very close feel to these and can sometimes be gotten at a really nice price.
SKCM Orange: I don't have these myself, but they've been reported to be either almost exactly the same as salmon, or noticeably different. Either way they should be great, but because they're older, they're hard to get in good condition (which would explain the discrepancy between user experiences).
SKCM Blue: The best, in my opinion at least. So smooth, such a fantastic sound, and a lovely balance of tactility. Problem is, these are rare and expensive, and old too, so not easy to get in great condition. Even when ****ty these are better than most Alps, though.
SKCM White: Very common, and still very good. Not as good as blues, yes. They're a bit scratchier, and don't sound quite as good. Still, I'd happily use these every day - and they're so much easier and cheaper to get.
SKCM Ivory (cream damped): deserves a mention as they're the ONLY Alps switches that aren't super loud. These things are met with mixed reviews - the soft bottoming out is liked by some, including me, but is likened by some to a rubber dome feeling, and I can see where they're coming from.
SMK Alps-mount "Monterey": These use a unique pinout and aren't compatible with Alps switches, so that might cause a serious problem. They're very nice though; light, smooth and extremely delicate. Among my favourite switches.
Type OA2 clones: Very close to genuine Alps construction, and they feel pretty nice. Very much like white Alps, but lighter. The sound isn't as great, and they're a little less consistent, but some people actually prefer these to genuine Alps.
Acer switch: Membrane-based and plate-mounted, shouldn't be applicable for your purposes at all.
Matias: These are the most forthcoming of all of course, and you can get them in new condition! A big advantage considering Alps are reasonably heavily affected by dust. I only have 5 of each in a switch testers, so my own experiences are limited - but I did use the same tester and other loose switches to compare. The clicky ones are nice, but IMO they're less consistent and don't feel or sound quite as elegant as genuine Alps. The quiet click ones are very comparable to SKCM Ivory switches.
Considering these are CUSTOM builds, you'll probably want the best ones, though. Sure, it might be easier to get certain switches, but for such a labour of love, I would recommend only the best. Therefore, I'd say get blues, salmons or oranges. All of them are great and should please anyone. Montereys are great too, but you'd have to totally remake the PCB design... and you can already get SIIG MiniTouches with them in.
Let me know if you guys want any more info :) .
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 02 September 2015, 16:50:41
Form factor: 60%
Layout: HHKB Pro 2 or programmable to this layout. Otherwise, standard ANSI.
Switches: Blue Monterey Alps, Matias Click, Matias Quiet Click, or Orange Alps.
Stabilizers: Wire type, as on the V60MTS.
Case: mounting holes in PCB and Plate suitable for a standard 60% aluminum case (like the Tex CNC case).
Caps: Dye-sub PBT OEM profile.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 02 September 2015, 21:21:31
Matias Switch update:
So I just got off the phone with the charming Steve McGowan, one of the co-founders of Matias, and he gave me a price breakdown of what he can offer for our GB.
For orders of
200-1000 switches, the unit price is $0.25 each
1200-2200 - $0.20 each
2400-4400 - $0.18 each
4800-9400 - $0.16 each
9600+ - $0.14 each
Additionally, if we can breach the 9600 threshold, the 9600 switches can be mixed between the click, quiet, and linear quiet in groups of 200. E.g. if we want 4000 click, 2200 quiet, and 3800 linear quiet - we would get the $0.14 price. However, if we only could reach 2000 click, 2000 quiet, and 2000 linear quiet, we would be paying the $0.20 price.
SO - we can make this happen if we want. If we can collectively decide to buy enough switches, we can get a good deal and spread the gospel of Alps.
All you enterprising individuals that like to squirrel away GB extras for trades - take heed. Your time is nigh!
It might be worth it to branch the switches off as their own GB, that way it gets more headline attention and people won't mistakenly think you have to buy everything to get the switches too. Thread title could be something like: [GB] Matias Switches - Clicky, Quiet or Linear - $0.14/ea. It sells itself!
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 03 September 2015, 02:16:57
Post by: sth on Thu, 03 September 2015, 02:18:05
Post by: henz on Thu, 03 September 2015, 06:49:49
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 03 September 2015, 08:20:39
i'm in for a plate. would it be possible to do a plate that works for both dell and apple?
Unfortunately, Alps switches don't really give us that option. They need to clip into the plate on all four sides.
Post by: sth on Thu, 03 September 2015, 08:21:52
i'm in for a plate. would it be possible to do a plate that works for both dell and apple?
Unfortunately, Alps switches don't really give us that option. They need to clip into the plate on all four sides.
i'm rapidly learning about alps plate options :)) do you have a plate file for AEKII? me and a fellow NL resident are thinking of getting a few made locally but i dont have the right bottom row for the spacebar.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 03 September 2015, 08:26:40
i'm in for a plate. would it be possible to do a plate that works for both dell and apple?
Unfortunately, Alps switches don't really give us that option. They need to clip into the plate on all four sides.
i'm rapidly learning about alps plate options :)) do you have a plate file for AEKII? me and a fellow NL resident are thinking of getting a few made locally but i dont have the right bottom row for the spacebar.
Sent you a PM.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 03 September 2015, 09:02:50
i'm in for a plate. would it be possible to do a plate that works for both dell and apple?
Not one plate that does both, but BlueNalgene is looking into making both styles count towards one MOQ.
Post by: JaccoW on Thu, 03 September 2015, 14:23:37
STH, I never knew you were Dutch?i'm in for a plate. would it be possible to do a plate that works for both dell and apple?
Unfortunately, Alps switches don't really give us that option. They need to clip into the plate on all four sides.
i'm rapidly learning about alps plate options :)) do you have a plate file for AEKII? me and a fellow NL resident are thinking of getting a few made locally but i dont have the right bottom row for the spacebar.
Post by: CommonCurt on Thu, 03 September 2015, 14:26:53
i'm in for a plate. would it be possible to do a plate that works for both dell and apple?
Not one plate that does both, but BlueNalgene is looking into making both styles count towards one MOQ.
Is there's any chance a Dell AT101 (without winkeys) plate option can be offered also?
Post by: sth on Thu, 03 September 2015, 15:38:37
STH, I never knew you were Dutch?
not Dutch just living here
Post by: vivalarevolución on Thu, 03 September 2015, 15:47:55
STH, I never knew you were Dutch?
not Dutch just living here
For what? The levees? The bike paths? The windmills? Clogs?
Post by: sth on Thu, 03 September 2015, 15:48:55
STH, I never knew you were Dutch?
not Dutch just living here
For what? The levees? The bike paths? The windmills? Clogs?
for pooping, silly
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 03 September 2015, 15:52:38
(http://i.imgur.com/4IKiCzP.jpg)
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 03 September 2015, 16:27:19
i'm in for a plate. would it be possible to do a plate that works for both dell and apple?
Not one plate that does both, but BlueNalgene is looking into making both styles count towards one MOQ.
Is there's any chance a Dell AT101 (without winkeys) plate option can be offered also?
This really depends on what I can get a machine shop to agree to. As it stands, you are the only person who has specifically requested a winkeyless version, so if there is a MOQ, you may be SOL (unless you want, like, thirty).
Post by: vivalarevolución on Thu, 03 September 2015, 17:23:53
STH, I never knew you were Dutch?
not Dutch just living here
For what? The levees? The bike paths? The windmills? Clogs?
for pooping, silly
Hmm...I didn't know the bathrooms and toilets were so great over there. I'll have to plan a visit to The Netherlands.
Post by: kennardsmith on Thu, 03 September 2015, 22:21:13
Post by: njbair on Thu, 03 September 2015, 22:30:22
Whether hasu runs a round 3 PCB or this one I'm probably in on both for a PCB.
This is hasu's R3.
Post by: Jersern on Fri, 04 September 2015, 03:50:48
Post by: sth on Fri, 04 September 2015, 03:55:49
STH, I never knew you were Dutch?
not Dutch just living here
For what? The levees? The bike paths? The windmills? Clogs?
for pooping, silly
Hmm...I didn't know the bathrooms and toilets were so great over there. I'll have to plan a visit to The Netherlands.
actually they're not.
public toilets cost money AND they're disgusting (what the heck am i paying for to walk into a public toilet with **** on the floor? and who pays to **** on the floor when they could just **** outside the toilet for free?!).
most private toilets are what many call '**** shelves' in which your doodoo sits exposed on a shelf before you flush, ostebsibly so you can admire your work before sending it down the drain. this has the added benefit of making your bathroom smell 10x worse than other toilets that give a water barrier.
also if you make large, sometimes the water doesnt flush it all off the shelf and you have to resort to some drastic measures to get it off the shelf. it's gross.
(http://meandherandher.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/354873197_863f840825_b.jpg)
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 04 September 2015, 08:09:17
Post by: Salmon on Mon, 07 September 2015, 15:06:39
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 07 September 2015, 15:25:04
Do we have an ETA for when this groupbuy might start? Really interested in a 60% Dell-style board with quiet clicks (and I could probably buy an extra 100 switches)
Hard to say. I'm still waiting on some quotes from machine shops at the moment. I still need to find time to perfect the CAD files too. If I had to venture a guess, I would say it will go life in 1-2 weeks, but don't hold me to that.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 08 September 2015, 01:46:25
Soooo, I might need three plates and PCBs, since I plan on using my Infinity for one build.
-
Also, just my meager bit of input, but having tried only Blue and Orange Alps so far, and having compared them directly (I got real lucky at scoring an AEK at only $17 on eBay), the Orange switches feel JUST like Blue alps to me, but without the click. Same full switch plate, same soft spring, so they feel remarkably similar. If you can't find blue alps, go get yourself a few Apple M0115s or M0116s and start lifting some caps, because Alps SKCM Orange switches are great!
I took a gamble on the board, but no one else even bid on it. I asked the seller if she could check under the cap and tell me the color of the switch. Orange. I went for it, despite knowing Salmon and Orange can look similar to each other. Upon checking the switches myself, I wasn't even sure! It was a dull orange. So finally upon dismantling one and seeing the full switch plate, I knew I lucked out! :D The board I got from eBay was advertised as having a bad switch, which likely deterred potential buyers out of worry that the switches were in bad shape. This was not so. Immediately upon typing on them, I just knew I had something good. They were light and airy, yet with a very definite tactility. I checked the board for bad switches, of which I found two. I restored them following a helpful tutorial I found for fixing dead Alps switches. Took around two hours just to fix the two that were dead, but it was worth it.
Overall, I feel that Alps SKCM Orange is very smooth and a close second to Alps SKCM Blue. :thumb:
I got lucky with my boards so far; all of the switches have been clean, very smooth, and consistent, though there is spring ping, which seems common with all Alps switches from what I've read. Both my blue and orange boards have spring ping (in my experience with MX switches and spring ping, lube usually eliminates this).
Post by: cheddarbek on Tue, 08 September 2015, 09:40:58
I already built (well, still waiting on the TEX case from MD to arrive) a 60% with whites in the AEKII layout from Hasu's 2nd round, so I'm itching to build another with my oranges in the Dell layout.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 08 September 2015, 10:15:36
Do we have an ETA for when this groupbuy might start? Really interested in a 60% Dell-style board with quiet clicks (and I could probably buy an extra 100 switches)
Hard to say. I'm still waiting on some quotes from machine shops at the moment. I still need to find time to perfect the CAD files too. If I had to venture a guess, I would say it will go life in 1-2 weeks, but don't hold me to that.
It sounds like this may end up running side-by-side with my Alps keycap GB (IC here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74783)). I don't think of these as competing against each other, since you are not offering caps, and I think running them in tandem will probably only help us both out if anything. Are you OK with this?
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 08 September 2015, 12:08:12
Do we have an ETA for when this groupbuy might start? Really interested in a 60% Dell-style board with quiet clicks (and I could probably buy an extra 100 switches)
Hard to say. I'm still waiting on some quotes from machine shops at the moment. I still need to find time to perfect the CAD files too. If I had to venture a guess, I would say it will go life in 1-2 weeks, but don't hold me to that.
It sounds like this may end up running side-by-side with my Alps keycap GB (IC here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74783)). I don't think of these as competing against each other, since you are not offering caps, and I think running them in tandem will probably only help us both out if anything. Are you OK with this?
I'm totally fine with this. Talking synergy up in this *****! You have a nice looking set there. I will probably direct anyone asking about caps in my GB thread to yours.
edit: I've been keeping an eye on your IC the whole time - lurker style
Post by: tominabox1 on Tue, 08 September 2015, 20:29:57
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 08 September 2015, 20:44:12
Im interested. I'd just want one of each the board and the plate I think. What all does the pcb come with? would I have to buy the BOM too? Trying to get an understanding of the total cost.
The PCB is going to be handled similar to how it was for the last run. See here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69740.msg1674818#msg1674818). The prices may not be the same this time, but they should be similar. The scale last time was $12 for plate only, $22 for the plate and all of the components (excluding switches), and $35 for a fully assembled plate (excluding switches of course). You don't have to buy the BOM if you have the parts to make it laying around at home.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 08 September 2015, 20:45:50
At least one successful :llama: has been produced. Can confirm that there will be a raffle for at least one :llama: in the official group buy.
Post by: CommonCurt on Tue, 08 September 2015, 21:46:07
Update -
At least one successful :llama: has been produced. Can confirm that there will be a raffle for at least one :llama: in the official group buy.
Uh, what will there be a raffle for?
Post by: njbair on Tue, 08 September 2015, 21:53:30
Update -
At least one successful :llama: has been produced. Can confirm that there will be a raffle for at least one :llama: in the official group buy.
Uh, what will there be a raffle for?
:llama:
Post by: CommonCurt on Tue, 08 September 2015, 22:17:47
Update -
At least one successful :llama: has been produced. Can confirm that there will be a raffle for at least one :llama: in the official group buy.
Uh, what will there be a raffle for?
:llama:
Oh wow, for a moment there I thought it was a joke :thumb:
Post by: njbair on Tue, 08 September 2015, 22:36:39
In the OP he mentioned a surprise, super secret incentive. He used a bunch of those llama things then. So he's not going to tell us what it is.Update -
At least one successful :llama: has been produced. Can confirm that there will be a raffle for at least one :llama: in the official group buy.
Uh, what will there be a raffle for?
:llama:
Oh wow, for a moment there I thought it was a joke :thumb:
Post by: CommonCurt on Tue, 08 September 2015, 22:39:39
In the OP he mentioned a surprise, super secret incentive. He used a bunch of those llama things then. So he's not going to tell us what it is.Update -
At least one successful :llama: has been produced. Can confirm that there will be a raffle for at least one :llama: in the official group buy.
Uh, what will there be a raffle for?
:llama:
Oh wow, for a moment there I thought it was a joke :thumb:
LoL. I'd forgotten all about that :))
Post by: StormyMonday on Wed, 09 September 2015, 00:11:20
Oops, I didn't realize I was supposed to express interest in switches. :-[ ;D
I'm interested in acquiring some switches somehow. Any idea what quantities we'd need to achieve some price break? If need be, I can just place an order straight from Matias.
I missed the switch preference, too. Since this board will be a mobile design, I'll want to keep a low profile with the switch selection, so that I don't attract undue attention to myself. Therefore, I'll be using Matias Quiet Clicks.
I'll probably source the switches from mechanicalkeyboards.com, unless I can find a GB.
Post by: tominabox1 on Wed, 09 September 2015, 07:12:57
Update -
At least one successful :llama: has been produced. Can confirm that there will be a raffle for at least one :llama: in the official group buy.
Thanks. Thats a lot cheaper than I had expected. Definitely want in on this. Im trying to source a donor board but the guy wants to sell me a whole computer...
Post by: xWintermute on Thu, 10 September 2015, 15:18:14
Post by: ziberzaba on Fri, 11 September 2015, 07:59:00
Post by: tominabox1 on Tue, 15 September 2015, 18:59:47
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 15 September 2015, 20:53:51
Any updates on this possible buy? I'm dying to tear up this board lol
No updates yet. Still working on final tweaks on the plate. I'm aiming for this weekend though.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 15 September 2015, 20:58:07
Any updates on this possible buy? I'm dying to tear up this board lol
No updates yet. Still working on final tweaks on the plate. I'm aiming for this weekend though.
Speaking of the plate, I'm still eager to learn if you've found a vendor that will do multiple layout options, and if so what our layout options will be.
Post by: tominabox1 on Tue, 15 September 2015, 21:58:48
Any updates on this possible buy? I'm dying to tear up this board lol
No updates yet. Still working on final tweaks on the plate. I'm aiming for this weekend though.
Awesome. The plate is the stickler for me. I really don't want to cut the one up in this board if I can help it. At least with a plate I can always put her back together!
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 15 September 2015, 22:12:53
Any updates on this possible buy? I'm dying to tear up this board lol
No updates yet. Still working on final tweaks on the plate. I'm aiming for this weekend though.
Speaking of the plate, I'm still eager to learn if you've found a vendor that will do multiple layout options, and if so what our layout options will be.
Multiple layouts can happen with some places. Right now, there are two options. A local place can do laser cut plates at a good price, and BigBlueSaw can do water cut plates at a less good price. I'm leaning toward the local one, since it would be cheaper to start with, and there would be no cost to ship the plates to me either. The cost difference of my rough quotes was about $15. Both of these places will do the combined order for multiple layouts. I have made plate designs for the AEKII, AT101, AT101W, and AT102W layouts. JDCarpe has kindly agreed to check my work and give me advice on stabilizers.
Why am I even waffling on this if the cost is so much different? Waterjet looks prettier. Laser cutting causes/suffers from something known as the heat affected zone. This zone can deform and melt during the cutting process. Waterjet does not have this issue since it is an abrasive cutting process. Waterjet cut steel edge will look like a smooth dull face, with some burrs on one side. A laser cut steel edge can start to develop moderate burrs on both sides of the cut edge based on the speed and cooling method of the laser. See here (http://www.twi-global.com/technical-knowledge/published-papers/the-effects-of-steel-composition-on-the-laser-cut-edge-quality-of-carbon-and-c-mn-steels/) for some comparison shots of the speed effect on the edge. A comparison of waterjet vs laser edge can be seen on this (http://www.flowwaterjet.com/en/waterjet-technology/comparative-cutting.aspx) site. If we want to go with a really nice edge from the water cut, we can add an additional $5 per unit for a basic finish.
If the big difference is edge effects, what do we want? I'm not sure of the edge quality of the laser cutter I got the quote from. I have sent them an email tonight asking for some info on this, and how much finishing work they do, but I don't expect a response until tomorrow.
What's more: does it even matter? As thin of steel as we are going to be using, the HAZ area may contribute so little to the burrs that it isn't an issue.
This is an IC, so input is welcome on this area. However, if the laser cut guy can show me a sexy edge from things they have done in the past, I won't be above making an executive decision.
Then there is the powder coat finish. Nubbs suggested it originally, and other members of the IC have expressed interest in it. BigBlueSaw does not offer it. My local place doesn't offer it, but they can send it to the shop down the street that does it. I'm still waiting for a quote on that.
edit: fixed link
Post by: cheddarbek on Tue, 15 September 2015, 22:15:24
Post by: njbair on Tue, 15 September 2015, 22:21:36
Any updates on this possible buy? I'm dying to tear up this board lol
No updates yet. Still working on final tweaks on the plate. I'm aiming for this weekend though.
Speaking of the plate, I'm still eager to learn if you've found a vendor that will do multiple layout options, and if so what our layout options will be.
Multiple layouts can happen with some places. Right now, there are two options. A local place can do laser cut plates at a good price, and BigBlueSaw can do water cut plates at a less good price. I'm leaning toward the local one, since it would be cheaper to start with, and there would be no cost to ship the plates to me either. The cost difference of my rough quotes was about $15. Both of these places will do the combined order for multiple layouts. I have made plate designs for the AEKII, AT101, AT101W, and AT102W layouts. JDCarpe has kindly agreed to check my work and give me advice on stabilizers.
Why am I even waffling on this if the cost is so much different? Waterjet looks prettier. Laser cutting causes/suffers from something known as the heat affected zone. This zone can deform and melt during the cutting process. Waterjet does not have this issue since it is an abrasive cutting process. Waterjet cut steel edge will look like a smooth dull face, with some burrs on one side. A laser cut steel edge can start to develop moderate burrs on both sides of the cut edge based on the speed and cooling method of the laser. See here (http://www.twi-global.com/technical-knowledge/published-papers/the-effects-of-steel-composition-on-the-laser-cut-edge-quality-of-carbon-and-c-mn-steels/) for some comparison shots of the speed effect on the edge. A comparison of waterjet vs laser edge can be seen on this (http://www.flowwaterjet.com/en/waterjet-technology/comparative-cutting.aspx) site. If we want to go with a really nice edge from the water cut, we can add an additional $5 per unit for a basic finish.
If the big difference is edge effects, what do we want? I'm not sure of the edge quality of the laser cutter I got the quote from. I have sent them an email tonight asking for some info on this, and how much finishing work they do, but I don't expect a response until tomorrow.
What's more: does it even matter? As thin of steel as we are going to be using, the HAZ area may contribute so little to the burrs that it isn't an issue.
This is an IC, so input is welcome on this area. However, if the laser cut guy can show me a sexy edge from things they have done in the past, I won't be above making an executive decision.
Then there is the powder coat finish. Nubbs suggested it originally, and other members of the IC have expressed interest in it. BigBlueSaw does not offer it. My local place doesn't offer it, but they can send it to the shop down the street that does it. I'm still waiting for a quote on that.
edit: fixed link
Nubbinator recently found out just how bad laser cutting can look, on his AEKII plate buy. In the end he decided to pay extra to have them refinished to remove the burrs and discoloration.
But at $15 extra per plate, plus $5 for deburring, I'd rather have an uglier plate and get it powder-coated.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 15 September 2015, 22:28:50
My thoughts exactly.Any updates on this possible buy? I'm dying to tear up this board lol
No updates yet. Still working on final tweaks on the plate. I'm aiming for this weekend though.
Speaking of the plate, I'm still eager to learn if you've found a vendor that will do multiple layout options, and if so what our layout options will be.
Multiple layouts can happen with some places. Right now, there are two options. A local place can do laser cut plates at a good price, and BigBlueSaw can do water cut plates at a less good price. I'm leaning toward the local one, since it would be cheaper to start with, and there would be no cost to ship the plates to me either. The cost difference of my rough quotes was about $15. Both of these places will do the combined order for multiple layouts. I have made plate designs for the AEKII, AT101, AT101W, and AT102W layouts. JDCarpe has kindly agreed to check my work and give me advice on stabilizers.
Why am I even waffling on this if the cost is so much different? Waterjet looks prettier. Laser cutting causes/suffers from something known as the heat affected zone. This zone can deform and melt during the cutting process. Waterjet does not have this issue since it is an abrasive cutting process. Waterjet cut steel edge will look like a smooth dull face, with some burrs on one side. A laser cut steel edge can start to develop moderate burrs on both sides of the cut edge based on the speed and cooling method of the laser. See here (http://www.twi-global.com/technical-knowledge/published-papers/the-effects-of-steel-composition-on-the-laser-cut-edge-quality-of-carbon-and-c-mn-steels/) for some comparison shots of the speed effect on the edge. A comparison of waterjet vs laser edge can be seen on this (http://www.flowwaterjet.com/en/waterjet-technology/comparative-cutting.aspx) site. If we want to go with a really nice edge from the water cut, we can add an additional $5 per unit for a basic finish.
If the big difference is edge effects, what do we want? I'm not sure of the edge quality of the laser cutter I got the quote from. I have sent them an email tonight asking for some info on this, and how much finishing work they do, but I don't expect a response until tomorrow.
What's more: does it even matter? As thin of steel as we are going to be using, the HAZ area may contribute so little to the burrs that it isn't an issue.
This is an IC, so input is welcome on this area. However, if the laser cut guy can show me a sexy edge from things they have done in the past, I won't be above making an executive decision.
Then there is the powder coat finish. Nubbs suggested it originally, and other members of the IC have expressed interest in it. BigBlueSaw does not offer it. My local place doesn't offer it, but they can send it to the shop down the street that does it. I'm still waiting for a quote on that.
edit: fixed link
Nubbinator recently found out just how bad laser cutting can look, on his AEKII plate buy. In the end he decided to pay extra to have them refinished to remove the burrs and discoloration.
But at $15 extra per plate, plus $5 for deburring, I'd rather have an uglier plate and get it powder-coated.
But the place I'm talking to may do the deburring in house. So... fingers crossed!
Post by: tominabox1 on Tue, 15 September 2015, 23:09:10
Post by: njbair on Tue, 15 September 2015, 23:46:44
Post by: tominabox1 on Wed, 16 September 2015, 07:11:47
Appearance is a potential issue, but I would be more concerned about a burr on the bottom side of the plate interfering with the retention leafs on the sides of the switches.
Ah very good point.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 16 September 2015, 12:07:28
Edge quality will be excellent and easily comparable to water jet, we cut yearly more than 100,000 lbs of 20,18 and 16 GA SS and we nearly never deburr. The only quality advantages to water jet on your part would be if tolerance requirement was less than +/-.005 and there is a potential flatness advantage due to the number of holes in a small area.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 16 September 2015, 13:40:21
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 16 September 2015, 13:42:39
Post by: njbair on Wed, 16 September 2015, 13:46:56
Do laser cutting and make everyone deburr their own plate. It's fun and really makes you feel like you're doing DIY when you're staring at a plate with a file and sandpaper like DON'T YOU **** WITH ME THIS TIME. Or maybe that's just me...
We'll have to hold a group buy for gauze and bandages.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 16 September 2015, 14:06:43
Post by: njbair on Wed, 16 September 2015, 14:12:02
Tolerance should be as close to +/- 0.001" as possible. But I've always had great plates made by laser cutting. I've never had a plate cut by water jet, and I have a LOT of custom plates.
+/- .001 seems like way overkill for a plate. De-facto standard for non-moving parts is usually +/- .005 for a dimension with three decimal places.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 16 September 2015, 14:38:48
Tolerance should be as close to +/- 0.001" as possible. But I've always had great plates made by laser cutting. I've never had a plate cut by water jet, and I have a LOT of custom plates.
+/- .001 seems like way overkill for a plate. De-facto standard for non-moving parts is usually +/- .005 for a dimension with three decimal places.
The Cherry spec sheet states the MX hole dimension as 0.551 +/- 0.002 inches. ;)
http://cherrycorp.com/product/mx-series/
Post by: CommonCurt on Wed, 16 September 2015, 14:42:55
Any updates on this possible buy? I'm dying to tear up this board lol
No updates yet. Still working on final tweaks on the plate. I'm aiming for this weekend though.
Speaking of the plate, I'm still eager to learn if you've found a vendor that will do multiple layout options, and if so what our layout options will be.
Multiple layouts can happen with some places. Right now, there are two options. A local place can do laser cut plates at a good price, and BigBlueSaw can do water cut plates at a less good price. I'm leaning toward the local one, since it would be cheaper to start with, and there would be no cost to ship the plates to me either. The cost difference of my rough quotes was about $15. Both of these places will do the combined order for multiple layouts. I have made plate designs for the AEKII, AT101, AT101W, and AT102W layouts. JDCarpe has kindly agreed to check my work and give me advice on stabilizers.
I'm okay with laser :D. Plus that way people will have their choice between multiple layouts.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 16 September 2015, 16:05:33
So I just got off the phone with the powder coating shop near me. He gave me a rough quote for the service and an idea of what they have. According to the guy I spoke with, they have "all sorts" of colors and "a buncha" different textures. There is no MOQ, but each color change costs.
The pricing scheme:
$25 for each color change
~$20 per plate
Candy coating and clear coat costs extra.
The color and texture:
What do we as a group want? Do we want something bold and colorful, like a glossy BlueNalgene blue? Do we want something sedate that would look good with older caps like a beige and gray alps mountaintop mock rock? Do we want some badass metal black and silver hammertone? Suggestions are welcome.
So if you intend to get the clearcoat option, please give me some input.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 16 September 2015, 16:06:53
Jdcarpurple.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 16 September 2015, 16:10:16
Barbie Pink with a glossy clear coat.
Jdcarpurple.
Pink? Purple? How would that look good with used caps? There are no Alps Miami sets lying around. Think man! It has to match all of the somber gray with blue legends that Alps users gravitate towards.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 16 September 2015, 16:12:17
/me dreams of fun colors on Alps keycap sets
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 16 September 2015, 16:15:53
Right. The fun plate colors will give a pop to otherwise boring salvaged Alps keycaps. Think phorphorglow plates on his Ms.
Bah! You and your completely legitimate ideas about color subtlety. :D
Post by: StormyMonday on Wed, 16 September 2015, 16:29:51
Powder Coat discussion time
So I just got off the phone with the powder coating shop near me. He gave me a rough quote for the service and an idea of what they have. According to the guy I spoke with, they have "all sorts" of colors and "a buncha" different textures. There is no MOQ, but each color change costs.
The pricing scheme:
$25 for each color change
~$20 per plate
Candy coating and clear coat costs extra.
The color and texture:
What do we as a group want? Do we want something bold and colorful, like a glossy BlueNalgene blue? Do we want something sedate that would look good with older caps like a beige and gray alps mountaintop mock rock? Do we want some badass metal black and silver hammertone? Suggestions are welcome.
So if you intend to get the clearcoat option, please give me some input.
Powder coat is great stuff, but not necessarily in a project with tight tolerances. I've seen several projects where the powder film applied was well over 1mm thick and manually sanding/filing powder coat is a massive pain in the a$$. Masking off all of the switch mounting holes would be very tedious, indeed. If on the other hand, the powder is thinly applied, there is a risk that mild steel components will corrode beneath the powder (it happened to me).
I would humbly suggest that Cerakote is a better product for this application and it is available in a multitude of colors..
Post by: tominabox1 on Wed, 16 September 2015, 18:30:06
Post by: xWintermute on Wed, 16 September 2015, 18:42:15
Post by: StormyMonday on Wed, 16 September 2015, 18:45:48
I'd rather have bare metal
Brushed stainless would look superb!
Anyone not happy with this could always powder coat, Cerakote, spray paint, finger paint, or smear mashed potatoes on it, as the mood strikes them. :p
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 16 September 2015, 18:47:34
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 16 September 2015, 19:44:58
Right. The fun plate colors will give a pop to otherwise boring salvaged Alps keycaps. Think phorphorglow plates on his Ms.
/me dreams of fun colors on Alps keycap sets
Phosphorglow progressed to the point that he was having plastic overlays that fit right over the barrels and he didn't have to mess with painting at all. Get those done so they can fit over Alps switches, and that would be fun.
EDIT: Also have doing a small run of plates for the XTant, I think it's best just to do plates in stainless steel or aluminum that doesn't require anything for protection, as most people are not going to mess with their plates. Just the hardcore geeks do that sort of thing.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 16 September 2015, 19:49:51
Post by: njbair on Wed, 16 September 2015, 20:05:12
This is SS not mild steel. So thin powder coat will be fine.Powder Coat discussion time
So I just got off the phone with the powder coating shop near me. He gave me a rough quote for the service and an idea of what they have. According to the guy I spoke with, they have "all sorts" of colors and "a buncha" different textures. There is no MOQ, but each color change costs.
The pricing scheme:
$25 for each color change
~$20 per plate
Candy coating and clear coat costs extra.
The color and texture:
What do we as a group want? Do we want something bold and colorful, like a glossy BlueNalgene blue? Do we want something sedate that would look good with older caps like a beige and gray alps mountaintop mock rock? Do we want some badass metal black and silver hammertone? Suggestions are welcome.
So if you intend to get the clearcoat option, please give me some input.
Powder coat is great stuff, but not necessarily in a project with tight tolerances. I've seen several projects where the powder film applied was well over 1mm thick and manually sanding/filing powder coat is a massive pain in the a$$. Masking off all of the switch mounting holes would be very tedious, indeed. If on the other hand, the powder is thinly applied, there is a risk that mild steel components will corrode beneath the powder (it happened to me).
I would humbly suggest that Cerakote is a better product for this application and it is available in a multitude of colors..
Post by: digi on Wed, 16 September 2015, 23:12:25
Dell ansi plate btw, go away Mac layout plebs. <3
+1
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 17 September 2015, 00:02:39
Expressing interest x10, after reading more than I usually do it appears that this is an IC for 2 IC's which we're HOPING lead to GB's? Ok, got it! :)
Dell ansi plate btw, go away Mac layout plebs. <3
+1
Wrong. It's an IC for a single catch-all GB with a bunch of different things. It is large and unwieldy because I have a way of biting off more than I can chew.
Post by: cheddarbek on Thu, 17 September 2015, 00:23:46
I'm sure this can be pulled of as well.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 17 September 2015, 01:15:03
I have faith in you bluenalgene. We more or less did a single gb before between nubbs plate, hasu's round 2 and the AEKII donor buys - they all happened basically at once.
I'm sure this can be pulled of as well.
Oh it WILL be pulled off. I have already decided to do it, so it WILL be done and done well. But doing this, writing a dissertation, taking a class, managing a club's finances, working, possibly suffering from scurvy, and working on secret projects for zine - it sort of adds up.
Post by: cheddarbek on Thu, 17 September 2015, 01:23:20
There is no sleep. Board is life.
Seriously, thanks for doing this!
Post by: sth on Thu, 17 September 2015, 01:46:29
Post by: Jersern on Thu, 17 September 2015, 02:22:14
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 17 September 2015, 02:45:00
I'd love a deep dark red plate for instance, and there is no way to get that with anodization afaik.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 17 September 2015, 07:20:14
I wonder if anodising can be an option. Or just raw if the powder coating is a bit too expensive. Raw is also pretty nice.Anodizing is for aluminum, not stainless. And colors will be completely optional since there's no MOQ.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 17 September 2015, 07:21:08
Why not keep powder coating as an option and allow just raw plates as well? There could be a MOQ per color on the coats, and if no colors pass the MOQ then the people have spoken.No need to impose MOQs for colors. If someone is willing to pay $50 for a custom color, they should be allowed.
I'd love a deep dark red plate for instance, and there is no way to get that with anodization afaik.
Post by: tominabox1 on Thu, 17 September 2015, 08:24:46
Post by: sth on Thu, 17 September 2015, 08:26:16
Would it be possible to build the keybaord without the PCB? I already have a teensy so I could wire it up if the plate supported it.
yes it would be possible, you can use TMK (or other firmwares, but TMK has been done with handwired boards many times) on Teensy.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 17 September 2015, 08:54:09
Would it be possible to build the keybaord without the PCB? I already have a teensy so I could wire it up if the plate supported it.
Take a look at some of the awesome work done by new-ish member Yoe, as example:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69841.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74161.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73760.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72577.0
https://instagram.com/trasselfrisyr/
Post by: tominabox1 on Thu, 17 September 2015, 09:03:01
Would it be possible to build the keybaord without the PCB? I already have a teensy so I could wire it up if the plate supported it.
Take a look at some of the awesome work done by new-ish member Yoe, as example:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69841.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74161.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73760.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72577.0
https://instagram.com/trasselfrisyr/
Ah ok I had seen those before but I wasn't sure he was using your plates or not. I know he cuts down the stock plates a lot. Thanks!
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 17 September 2015, 09:06:38
Ah ok I had seen those before but I wasn't sure he was using your plates or not. I know he cuts down the stock plates a lot. Thanks!
With Alps, a plate is a plate. The switches mount into rectangular holes, end of story. :)
It's a bit different with MX, where sometimes a plate is optional, and one can design the square holes with cutouts on the sides for switch opening.
Post by: tominabox1 on Thu, 17 September 2015, 20:53:38
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 17 September 2015, 21:37:02
The plate will fit in a Pok3r case probably right? Looks like the last one would have...
Absolutely
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 18 September 2015, 13:21:16
Do laser cutting and make everyone deburr their own plate. It's fun and really makes you feel like you're doing DIY when you're staring at a plate with a file and sandpaper like DON'T YOU **** WITH ME THIS TIME. Or maybe that's just me...
No thanks. I don't need more hurdles to building a board, I need fewer! :P
Re: colors
I'd like to see a blue of some sort. :thumb:
Post by: CommonCurt on Fri, 18 September 2015, 13:44:40
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 18 September 2015, 19:07:25
blue:
(http://www.prismaticpowders.com/uploaded/thumbnails/db_file_img_4370_325xauto.jpg)
Misty Midnight
(http://www.prismaticpowders.com/uploaded/thumbnails/db_file_img_4644_325xauto.jpg)
Bentley Blue
copper:
(http://www.prismaticpowders.com/uploaded/thumbnails/db_file_img_4250_325xauto.jpg)
transparent copper
Post by: tominabox1 on Sat, 19 September 2015, 10:13:52
Post by: BlueNalgene on Sat, 19 September 2015, 23:14:54
Last call on plate design. Right now your options are AT101 (ansi), AT101W (ansi), AT102W (iso), AEKII (ansi), AEKII (iso), and Infinity (std). Plates have the standard Poker screw holes.
If there is anything else you want, let me know.
Credit goes to JDCarpe for all of the plate designs except for the AT101. I tried to just get him to advise me on making them, but then he goes and just throws all of his awesome work my way. I can only assume that he was having premonitions of how I would continue to **** it up and bother him every day with questions and wanted to preempt that.
If everything goes as planned (getting powder coat quote, not getting thousand plates to design, having enough time to make new stupid photoshops of my water bottle in historical paintings), this GB will go live on Monday.
Post by: digi on Sat, 19 September 2015, 23:20:25
this GB will go live on Monday.
yessss :thumb:
photochops with your water bottle rule.
Post by: apathy3cs on Sun, 20 September 2015, 13:36:00
depends on funds but I might try to jump in on this with the matias quiets.
Post by: xWintermute on Mon, 21 September 2015, 19:20:15
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 21 September 2015, 22:17:50
Post by: digi on Tue, 22 September 2015, 11:34:34
Now we just need someone to run a GB for Alps keycappers.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 22 September 2015, 11:35:25
Pretty sure I'm ready for this.
Now we just need someone to run a GB for Alps keycappers.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74783.0
Wish Granted. Also MD just ran a Tai Hao Alps GB.
Post by: nickheller on Tue, 22 September 2015, 11:42:33
Mechanicalkeyboards.com will be selling the Dolch (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1362), and Olivette (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1361) Tai Hao caps that were on massdrop. They are currently available for pre order.Pretty sure I'm ready for this.
Now we just need someone to run a GB for Alps keycappers.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74783.0
Wish Granted. Also MD just ran a Tai Hao Alps GB.
Post by: digi on Tue, 22 September 2015, 11:43:41
Pretty sure I'm ready for this.
Now we just need someone to run a GB for Alps keycappers.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74783.0
Wish Granted. Also MD just ran a Tai Hao Alps GB.
Cool! Thanks for the info mango
Post by: ShadeDream on Tue, 22 September 2015, 15:39:28
Mechanicalkeyboards.com will be selling the Dolch (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1362), and Olivette (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1361) Tai Hao caps that were on massdrop. They are currently available for pre order.
Just for clarification, these sets wont fit on the bottom row of an AEKII layout, correct?
Post by: njbair on Tue, 22 September 2015, 15:46:17
Mechanicalkeyboards.com will be selling the Dolch (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1362), and Olivette (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1361) Tai Hao caps that were on massdrop. They are currently available for pre order.
Just for clarification, these sets wont fit on the bottom row of an AEKII layout, correct?
Correct. They will only work on a standard ANSI bottom row such as the KBP v60.
Post by: U47 on Tue, 22 September 2015, 18:19:02
It would be an Infinity Hacker, which I know no one is interested in, but I want a true HHKB plate (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/19d1ac10351b119482a6) (so without leftmost and two rightmost bottom-row holes cut). I don't think there's a lot of interest in that particular layout — I may do an IC myself or get a couple made.
At any rate, I have a round-2 PCB waiting for me to figure out the plate and some 6u spacebars (fingers crossed Alpine Winter), so I'm in for at least another PCB w/ components if not plates.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 22 September 2015, 18:32:17
Oh, I suppose I never piped up about the plate layout I'd like.
It would be an Infinity Hacker, which I know no one is interested in, but I want a true HHKB plate (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/19d1ac10351b119482a6) (so without leftmost and two rightmost bottom-row holes cut). I don't think there's a lot of interest in that particular layout — I may do an IC myself or get a couple made.
At any rate, I have a round-2 PCB waiting for me to figure out the plate and some 6u spacebars (fingers crossed Alpine Winter), so I'm in for at least another PCB w/ components if not plates.
Where would you find Alps caps with a hacker layout?
Post by: njbair on Tue, 22 September 2015, 19:06:43
Oh, I suppose I never piped up about the plate layout I'd like.
It would be an Infinity Hacker, which I know no one is interested in, but I want a true HHKB plate (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/19d1ac10351b119482a6) (so without leftmost and two rightmost bottom-row holes cut). I don't think there's a lot of interest in that particular layout — I may do an IC myself or get a couple made.
At any rate, I have a round-2 PCB waiting for me to figure out the plate and some 6u spacebars (fingers crossed Alpine Winter), so I'm in for at least another PCB w/ components if not plates.
Where would you find Alps caps with a hacker layout?
*Ahem*
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 22 September 2015, 19:46:50
Oh, I suppose I never piped up about the plate layout I'd like.
It would be an Infinity Hacker, which I know no one is interested in, but I want a true HHKB plate (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/19d1ac10351b119482a6) (so without leftmost and two rightmost bottom-row holes cut). I don't think there's a lot of interest in that particular layout — I may do an IC myself or get a couple made.
At any rate, I have a round-2 PCB waiting for me to figure out the plate and some 6u spacebars (fingers crossed Alpine Winter), so I'm in for at least another PCB w/ components if not plates.
Where would you find Alps caps with a hacker layout?
*Ahem*
Oh really? I bet that is what those blanks are for.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 22 September 2015, 19:56:46
Oh, I suppose I never piped up about the plate layout I'd like.
It would be an Infinity Hacker, which I know no one is interested in, but I want a true HHKB plate (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/19d1ac10351b119482a6) (so without leftmost and two rightmost bottom-row holes cut). I don't think there's a lot of interest in that particular layout — I may do an IC myself or get a couple made.
At any rate, I have a round-2 PCB waiting for me to figure out the plate and some 6u spacebars (fingers crossed Alpine Winter), so I'm in for at least another PCB w/ components if not plates.
Where would you find Alps caps with a hacker layout?
*Ahem*
Oh really? I bet that is what those blanks are for.
The 1.5U and 1U bottom row, and the 6U spacebar are for the hacker layout. It just so happens that all but the spacebar are used for other layouts as well.
Post by: U47 on Wed, 23 September 2015, 01:09:43
Where would you find Alps caps with a hacker layout?
Well, I don't need the whole Hacker layout, since I only want HHKB. The key is the 6u spacebar, which Alpine Winter will supply.
(Also a huge coup to get the 6.5u AEKII spacebars in that GB, too. This may be bigger news (in terms of solving rarity) than Matt3o's Topre set.)
The 8u ALPS spacebar on my NeXT board takes the cake for "Ain't Never Gonna Find a Replacement For That" though.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 23 September 2015, 16:23:08
A new challenger approaches....
Hannibal is at the gates.
Hannibal is at the gates.
Final quote verification received. This GB goes live TONIGHT.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 23 September 2015, 21:16:11
w00t!A new challenger approaches....
Hannibal is at the gates.
Final quote verification received. This GB goes live TONIGHT.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 23 September 2015, 23:37:53
It should be visible once a moderator approves it. Don't fail me now Hoff.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75491.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75491.0)
Post by: cheddarbek on Wed, 23 September 2015, 23:39:46
And the GB is up!!!!
I'm so excited!
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 24 September 2015, 00:06:42
And the GB is up!!!!
I'm so excited!
I'm not. Thread does not exist...?
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 24 September 2015, 00:10:20
And the GB is up!!!!
I'm so excited!
I'm not. Thread does not exist...?
As he already stated, it requires approval. He has posted the thread and is waiting for a mod to approve it.
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 24 September 2015, 00:18:02
Post by: skaloola on Thu, 24 September 2015, 04:50:10
Oh, I suppose I never piped up about the plate layout I'd like.
It would be an Infinity Hacker, which I know no one is interested in, but I want a true HHKB plate (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/19d1ac10351b119482a6) (so without leftmost and two rightmost bottom-row holes cut). I don't think there's a lot of interest in that particular layout — I may do an IC myself or get a couple made.
At any rate, I have a round-2 PCB waiting for me to figure out the plate and some 6u spacebars (fingers crossed Alpine Winter), so I'm in for at least another PCB w/ components if not plates.
I'd be in for one..
(but I don't watch these boards like a hawk, so if it ever does happen and you need an order PM me and/or /u/hottkarl on reddit!)
Post by: kennardsmith on Thu, 24 September 2015, 04:58:43
Where would you find Alps caps with a hacker layout?
Well, I don't need the whole Hacker layout, since I only want HHKB. The key is the 6u spacebar, which Alpine Winter will supply.
(Also a huge coup to get the 6.5u AEKII spacebars in that GB, too. This may be bigger news (in terms of solving rarity) than Matt3o's Topre set.)
The 8u ALPS spacebar on my NeXT board takes the cake for "Ain't Never Gonna Find a Replacement For That" though.
i would buy more than one of those HHKB alps plates.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 24 September 2015, 10:04:57
Where would you find Alps caps with a hacker layout?
Well, I don't need the whole Hacker layout, since I only want HHKB. The key is the 6u spacebar, which Alpine Winter will supply.
(Also a huge coup to get the 6.5u AEKII spacebars in that GB, too. This may be bigger news (in terms of solving rarity) than Matt3o's Topre set.)
The 8u ALPS spacebar on my NeXT board takes the cake for "Ain't Never Gonna Find a Replacement For That" though.
i would buy more than one of those HHKB alps plates.
So you guys want this?
(http://i.imgur.com/KiFYvPv.png)
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 24 September 2015, 10:11:57
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 24 September 2015, 10:14:06
I don't get the HHKB layout. I mean, yes fewer keys, and yes those corners are hard to reach, but why not just stick caps lock and win key there and have them available if you should need them? It's almost like removing features is something you pay extra for now, like one of those cell phones with huge numbers for granny that cost three times what they should.
Duck's Viper was a pretty big hit when it came out. I personally like the aesthetic of the corner blockers. Of course, it would require a custom 60% case to be milled...
Post by: kennardsmith on Thu, 24 September 2015, 11:09:23
Where would you find Alps caps with a hacker layout?
Well, I don't need the whole Hacker layout, since I only want HHKB. The key is the 6u spacebar, which Alpine Winter will supply.
(Also a huge coup to get the 6.5u AEKII spacebars in that GB, too. This may be bigger news (in terms of solving rarity) than Matt3o's Topre set.)
The 8u ALPS spacebar on my NeXT board takes the cake for "Ain't Never Gonna Find a Replacement For That" though.
i would buy more than one of those HHKB alps plates.
So you guys want this?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KiFYvPv.png)
That looks nice, but I was thinking something that would still be a rectangle so it would fit in to a normal poker style case. However, a case that fit that board is also on my wish list.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 24 September 2015, 12:40:38
Where would you find Alps caps with a hacker layout?
Well, I don't need the whole Hacker layout, since I only want HHKB. The key is the 6u spacebar, which Alpine Winter will supply.
(Also a huge coup to get the 6.5u AEKII spacebars in that GB, too. This may be bigger news (in terms of solving rarity) than Matt3o's Topre set.)
The 8u ALPS spacebar on my NeXT board takes the cake for "Ain't Never Gonna Find a Replacement For That" though.
i would buy more than one of those HHKB alps plates.
So you guys want this?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KiFYvPv.png)
You probably would want to leave it rectangular but with no cutouts, just so it will cover the top of a Poker-style case. Then if someone wanted to use it in a special viper-style case, they could just bandsaw it or something.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 24 September 2015, 12:44:06
Where would you find Alps caps with a hacker layout?
Well, I don't need the whole Hacker layout, since I only want HHKB. The key is the 6u spacebar, which Alpine Winter will supply.
(Also a huge coup to get the 6.5u AEKII spacebars in that GB, too. This may be bigger news (in terms of solving rarity) than Matt3o's Topre set.)
The 8u ALPS spacebar on my NeXT board takes the cake for "Ain't Never Gonna Find a Replacement For That" though.
i would buy more than one of those HHKB alps plates.
So you guys want this?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KiFYvPv.png)
You probably would want to leave it rectangular but with no cutouts, just so it will cover the top of a Poker-style case. Then if someone wanted to use it in a special viper-style case, they could just bandsaw it or something.
Yeah, then you get to explain to people why there are missing keys on the corners every time...
(http://i.imgur.com/oYqH5mG.jpg)
Post by: njbair on Thu, 24 September 2015, 12:51:04
Where would you find Alps caps with a hacker layout?
Well, I don't need the whole Hacker layout, since I only want HHKB. The key is the 6u spacebar, which Alpine Winter will supply.
(Also a huge coup to get the 6.5u AEKII spacebars in that GB, too. This may be bigger news (in terms of solving rarity) than Matt3o's Topre set.)
The 8u ALPS spacebar on my NeXT board takes the cake for "Ain't Never Gonna Find a Replacement For That" though.
i would buy more than one of those HHKB alps plates.
So you guys want this?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KiFYvPv.png)
You probably would want to leave it rectangular but with no cutouts, just so it will cover the top of a Poker-style case. Then if someone wanted to use it in a special viper-style case, they could just bandsaw it or something.
Yeah, then you get to explain to people why there are missing keys on the corners every time...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oYqH5mG.jpg)
Well, whatever people want, I guess...but a rectangular plate seems a lot more likely as part of the MOQ than one with a different shape.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 24 September 2015, 12:53:57
Well, whatever people want, I guess...but a rectangular plate seems a lot more likely as part of the MOQ than one with a different shape.
Sure, I'm with you. BlueNalgene can easily remove the switch holes from the Infinity Hacker plate drawing I sent him. :)
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 24 September 2015, 12:59:43
Well, whatever people want, I guess...but a rectangular plate seems a lot more likely as part of the MOQ than one with a different shape.
Sure, I'm with you. BlueNalgene can easily remove the switch holes from the Infinity Hacker plate drawing I sent him. :)
Yeah, I will update. There have been several folks whining about wanting an hacker plate.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 24 September 2015, 13:00:36
There have been severalfolkshackers whining about wanting an hacker plate.
FTFY
Post by: kennardsmith on Thu, 24 September 2015, 14:08:51
Where would you find Alps caps with a hacker layout?
Well, I don't need the whole Hacker layout, since I only want HHKB. The key is the 6u spacebar, which Alpine Winter will supply.
(Also a huge coup to get the 6.5u AEKII spacebars in that GB, too. This may be bigger news (in terms of solving rarity) than Matt3o's Topre set.)
The 8u ALPS spacebar on my NeXT board takes the cake for "Ain't Never Gonna Find a Replacement For That" though.
i would buy more than one of those HHKB alps plates.
So you guys want this?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KiFYvPv.png)
You probably would want to leave it rectangular but with no cutouts, just so it will cover the top of a Poker-style case. Then if someone wanted to use it in a special viper-style case, they could just bandsaw it or something.
Yeah, then you get to explain to people why there are missing keys on the corners every time...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oYqH5mG.jpg)
My attempt to quell the questions from coworkers didn't work :))
(http://i.imgur.com/ZlNOxXc.jpg)
Post by: StormyMonday on Thu, 24 September 2015, 14:54:49
Well, whatever people want, I guess...but a rectangular plate seems a lot more likely as part of the MOQ than one with a different shape.
Sure, I'm with you. BlueNalgene can easily remove the switch holes from the Infinity Hacker plate drawing I sent him. :)
Yeah, I will update. There have been several folks whining about wanting an hacker plate.
Yessss! Hack me baby!!!
P.S.
Sorry about the whining ...
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 24 September 2015, 14:58:41
Well, whatever people want, I guess...but a rectangular plate seems a lot more likely as part of the MOQ than one with a different shape.
Sure, I'm with you. BlueNalgene can easily remove the switch holes from the Infinity Hacker plate drawing I sent him. :)
Yeah, I will update. There have been several folks whining about wanting an hacker plate.
Yessss! Hack me baby!!!
P.S.
Sorry about the whining ...
All this whining. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
I would have capitalized 'cheese' but I couldn't find the ctrl button on the hacker layout. (best hacker layout joke I could come up with. Sorry)
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 24 September 2015, 18:17:39
Your options are:
a) Remove the corner key cutouts so when finished you see lots of plate.
b) Remove the corners so you can see the PCB underneath.
Post by: xWintermute on Thu, 24 September 2015, 23:16:23
And arm'd with Kings to strive --
And now thou art a nameless thing:
So abject -- yet alive!
Is this the man of thousand thrones,
Who strew'd our earth with hostile bones,
And can he thus survive?
Since he, miscall'd the Morning Star,
Nor man nor fiend hath fallen so far.
Post by: StormyMonday on Fri, 25 September 2015, 00:00:55
Ok folks. So you want a Hacker layout with lessusabilitykey holes. If the group can decide how we want to handle the blank space, I will put it up on the GB form.
Your options are:
a) Remove the corner key cutouts so when finished you see lots of plate.
b) Remove the corners so you can see the PCB underneath.
Actually, I'd prefer the Infinity Hacker layout (not HHKB), with all of the usability: http://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-keyboard-kit?referer=VF4SNE
Sorry for the misunderstanding ... and the whining.
Post by: U47 on Fri, 25 September 2015, 01:11:17
Ok folks. So you want a Hacker layout with lessusabilitykey holes. If the group can decide how we want to handle the blank space, I will put it up on the GB form.
Your options are:
a) Remove the corner key cutouts so when finished you see lots of plate.
b) Remove the corners so you can see the PCB underneath.
Wow, wasn't expecting this. Is this still an option now that the GB has gone live? Option A, that is?
I'd likely be more interested in the powder coating if the plate is showing some skin...
Oh, and the desire for "less usability" is half aesthetic (i think it looks boss), and half because my HHKB is my daily driver and I'm never going to use those 3 keys.
Post by: U47 on Fri, 25 September 2015, 01:17:20
My attempt to quell the questions from coworkers didn't work :))Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZlNOxXc.jpg)
Are you using dummy keys here (like SP has for sale)? Where did you find a 1.5u one?
This doesn't look shabby. I like! An option if the HHKB plate doesn't turn out to be an option.
Post by: kennardsmith on Fri, 25 September 2015, 11:24:47
My attempt to quell the questions from coworkers didn't work :))Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZlNOxXc.jpg)
Are you using dummy keys here (like SP has for sale)? Where did you find a 1.5u one?
This doesn't look shabby. I like! An option if the HHKB plate doesn't turn out to be an option.
These are just normal switch blockers from SP (http://keyshop.pimpmykeyboard.com/products/inventory/switch-lockouts). The camera angle must be playing tricks.
The plate is an infinity plate.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 25 September 2015, 14:36:45
Ok folks. So you want a Hacker layout with lessusabilitykey holes. If the group can decide how we want to handle the blank space, I will put it up on the GB form.
Your options are:
a) Remove the corner key cutouts so when finished you see lots of plate.
b) Remove the corners so you can see the PCB underneath.
Actually, I'd prefer the Infinity Hacker layout (not HHKB), with all of the usability: http://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-keyboard-kit?referer=VF4SNE
Sorry for the misunderstanding ... and the whining.
Ok folks. So you want a Hacker layout with lessusabilitykey holes. If the group can decide how we want to handle the blank space, I will put it up on the GB form.
Your options are:
a) Remove the corner key cutouts so when finished you see lots of plate.
b) Remove the corners so you can see the PCB underneath.
Wow, wasn't expecting this. Is this still an option now that the GB has gone live? Option A, that is?
I'd likely be more interested in the powder coating if the plate is showing some skin...
Oh, and the desire for "less usability" is half aesthetic (i think it looks boss), and half because my HHKB is my daily driver and I'm never going to use those 3 keys.
I'm going to add the HHKB Option A style plate to the GB.
And I hope you guys know I was being sarcastic about the usability thing. I was just having a joke ohmygodyouhatemenow :confused:
Post by: kennardsmith on Fri, 25 September 2015, 16:12:40
Ok folks. So you want a Hacker layout with lessusabilitykey holes. If the group can decide how we want to handle the blank space, I will put it up on the GB form.
Your options are:
a) Remove the corner key cutouts so when finished you see lots of plate.
b) Remove the corners so you can see the PCB underneath.
Actually, I'd prefer the Infinity Hacker layout (not HHKB), with all of the usability: http://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-keyboard-kit?referer=VF4SNE
Sorry for the misunderstanding ... and the whining.Ok folks. So you want a Hacker layout with lessusabilitykey holes. If the group can decide how we want to handle the blank space, I will put it up on the GB form.
Your options are:
a) Remove the corner key cutouts so when finished you see lots of plate.
b) Remove the corners so you can see the PCB underneath.
Wow, wasn't expecting this. Is this still an option now that the GB has gone live? Option A, that is?
I'd likely be more interested in the powder coating if the plate is showing some skin...
Oh, and the desire for "less usability" is half aesthetic (i think it looks boss), and half because my HHKB is my daily driver and I'm never going to use those 3 keys.
I'm going to add the HHKB Option A style plate to the GB.
And I hope you guys know I was being sarcastic about the usability thing. I was just having a joke ohmygodyouhatemenow :confused:
omgomgomg how do i modify my order!?
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 25 September 2015, 16:23:02
omgomgomg how do i modify my order!?
Send me a PM of what you want changed.
Post by: sth on Mon, 28 September 2015, 12:03:45