geekhack
geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: AmbiguusPerspeciere on Mon, 19 September 2022, 01:42:07
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Hi,
I'm new to the custom keyboard hobby and fell in love with the TGR Jane v2 CE's design but would like a wkl 75% layout, like the Primus, Dawn, etc. I've already messaged Yuktsi to see if he/she offers custom commissions and also asked for permission, waiting for a response, to use the case design in case the commission is denied. If he/she replies yes for the use of design, where and how would I have to proceed to get this personal project to come true? Also as someone new to the hobby, I don't have realistic expectations of costs, time, and etc., so could you guys, experienced members, please educate me with this as well? I would really appreciate it. Thanks for everyone's time and hope to hear from you guys soon!
Best,
Tim
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Depends a lot by where you live, but producing a CNC 1 unit is a lot of money. I don't know exactly how much but well over 1000$ you can use a cheaper chinese manufacturer, but finding a good and reliable one is also dificult. I highly recommend buying a temporary keyboard such as a keychron Q1 and waiting for a groupbuy that fits your needs.
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ones offs are always expensive, even if you're not trying to commission one of the most esteemed designers in the hobby. some of the people who take board design commissions on the lower end of the price spectrum will still charge $200 just for the design, and then you'd be paying another 300-1000+ to have it machined. as far as the timeframe goes, i'd expect a couple days to a couple months for the CAD work depending on who you're working with and how meticulous they are, then another month or so for machining. i'd just recommend buying an aftermarket tomo if you want a tgr 75%, they're selling for around group buy cost
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Hi,
Thank you both for replying! I appreciate it. I understand what both of you are saying, but I don't want to wait, only to hope, that my desired design appears, so I decided to either commission or to go the manufacturing route. However, I can't really start this project without Yuktsi's permission, so I'm on halt for now. Hopefully, he will say yes to either one of my requests. Fingers crossed haha
Best,
Tim
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If you get permission and they let you have the CAD files (I have doubts), and those files are cnc ready*, you can probably get the machining done for let's say $800. That's just the machining and it could take literally months to find a good CNC shop willing to do the job and then put you in line. You could get bumped a few times so honestly, it could take a year for this to happen once you find a shop. Shops are difficult, the easy ones to find are booked solid for months and charge a premium, many cheap and under utilized ones begging for work are hard to find. Shops hate one-offs, there's little profit in it so they shun it for more profitable production work. Not sure where you are but in many places it's easier to locate a Chinese CNC shop than the one located 2 blocks away**.
Keep in mind this is just the CNC machining, you still need finish, expect $100, bare minimum for anodizing, if you chose a common color (black or silver usually) and aren't super picky about the finish quality. Otherwise, expect to pay a bit more for a nice finish and a whole lot more if you want an uncommon color. You could have it powder coated or something else, but you aren't going to get much of anything for less than $100 no matter what you do. the only good side about alternatives is that you can pick almost any (basic) color without being charged extra usually.
Next is the PCB, as above finding one local can be hard, even finding a PCB manufacturer in your entire country can be hard. The good part is this is actually more easily handled by China and will take less time. Despite what people will tell you, yes, you can get a PCB for $30, however, what these people forget is that there is a minimum requirement, usually 5 or more. So yeah, you can get one for $30, but only if you buy 5 and those are bare. Expect another $20 each by the time you get the diodes, chip and such to be installed. You also may want them to flash the firmware for you, since that's not so easy the first time. That's another charge. So it's not $30, it's going to be more like $200-$350, maybe more. Even from China.
Don't forget you still need hardware, feet, probably some shipping, this can all add up faster than you expect.
*Some shops will not handle metric, some will not do standard/imperial. The files also may specify a specific tolerance or finish quality that needs to be changed, either because of fit and finish or because of cost.
** This is a big problem especially in the US where people will actually charge to help you locate a shop so it's in their own best interest to make it difficult. Yes, it's as stupid as it sounds. China is an option and cheaper, BUT, this means language barriers, shipping and most important, understanding you get what you get. They did something wrong, stile your money, sent the wrong part entirely, you just wasted your money. Pretty much everyone who has done much manufacturing in China has been ripped off at least once. Yes, you can get ripped off at home as well, I've also seen US companies do it, but at least in your home country you understand the legal system, you're local and have some possible recourse.
Bottom line
If you get the files, you're still looking at well over $1000 total and probably 6-12 months time, and that's a dream scenario. It probably will not go that smooth.
If you do not get the files, it gets much more interesting expensive. Now you need to create the files, if you have experience with CAD and keyboards, you can probably knock this out in a week or two and then shoot off your first prototype. Without experience you need learn cad or hire someone. While an expert can cost hundreds, it's cheaper than paying for multiple prototypes at $800 each. You can literally buy a 3d printer and learn yourself than it is to pay for a single prototype and odds are, you're going to need several prototypes (3-5 maybe more depending on your cad skill, all at full cnc price) before you get what you want, even if you hire someone who knows what they're doing. Regardless, if you budget your time well, you can still get this all done in the 6-12 month time frame, but a much more realistic goal if you can't get files is closer to 18 months before it's on your desk looking how you want and you should also plan on spending several thousand dollars.
Oh and as for commissions...
Good luck. It's going to be expensive because you're just pawning all of this stuff onto someone else. It's not like that can just make a phone call and say "I need one". It's multiple vendors, shipping, quality control, all requiring just as much time and effort as it does to have 50 made except YOU and only YOU get to pay for all of it. It will be thousands. If they take the job.