Author Topic: Quad core versus Dual core  (Read 24674 times)

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Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 13:46:01 »
I have a 2.8G AMD X2 and was swapping out video cards. Maybe I bounced the case, I don't really know, but one of the heatsink retaining clips broke off of the mount.

That kind of chapped me as it is my main box. I was in a rush so I used some thermal adhesive to "glue" the heatsink to the CPU.

So its "all better" now. But I got to thinking and was pondering if I should take the time to just swap out the mobo/cpu and ram. I was thinking of going with a phenom II or maybe even an intel chip.

So I guess my question is if you were going to upgrade would you go with a AMD quad core or some Intel version. I am leaning towards the phenom 920 as it seems to be the best bang for the buck.

I like AMD if that matters and have been to Tomshardware and Anandtech to get an idea of price and performance.

What do you guys think?
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Offline ch_123

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 13:49:42 »
For one, in about a week's time, AMD is set to release the 3.2GHz 955. If you're interested in overclocking, it's supposed to be capable of 4GHz+ without water cooling. If you're not, it will probably push down the price of the 920.

As for Quad Core vs. Dual Core, depends on what you do. Some people say that a faster dual core is better for games, but I personally think that it's best to get the Quad Core for future proofing. It's also probably better for non gaming tasks.

Offline iMav

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 13:49:42 »
I've been on the Intel the last couple of years (used to be a BIG AMD fan) simply due to the fact that they have really stepped it up in price/performance.  

I've got a quad core Intel as my main VM server (with 8GB) and it is a major workhorse.  Not sure if I would need quad-core for my primary workstation though.

Offline lam47

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 13:50:59 »
I would have a look on Guru3d at some benchmarks too.

A lot will depend on what you want to do with it. Quad vs Dual makes pretty much no difference in games. Also AMD vs Intel makes no difference in games over 1680 x whatever resolutions. At these high resolutions the FPS is GPU bound.

If you do a lot of work, rendering whatever on your PC then a Quad is the way to go for sure.
The Phenom 2 chips I think are very good but then the Intel q6600 is still an amazing chip for the money.
I would not go for an I7 just yet as they are expensive and I have heard of a lot having problems.
I personally want to upgrade my AMD 6000+ to a quad Phenom II soon.

Good luck whatever you go for.

Laurie.
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Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 13:54:03 »
It seems like a quad core would be overkill. And just to make you guys laugh a bit, its not like I really do all that much. I don't game on PC's (anymore), I have no interest in overclocking either. My world is through a web browser, and email of course. I don't do anything that really requires a powerful CPU. But the price/performance is acceptable and I always like a "faster machine".
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Offline lam47

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 13:59:28 »
Pink netbook ;)
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Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 14:00:47 »
Quote from: lam47;28644
Pink netbook ;)


Yeah, I was waiting for that. : )
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Offline wheel83

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 14:01:38 »
i have a 6600 and its great.
I <3 BS

Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 14:03:46 »
From what I am reading there are not a whole lot of applications that really take advantage of quad core as of yet, but that is expected to change.

Aside from the high-end intel chips the mid-range isn't really priced so bad.
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Offline lam47

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 14:07:43 »
6600 I think is still regarded as the best chip for the money.
It would mean going over to the dark side though.
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Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 14:17:23 »
Quote from: lam47;28648
6600 I think is still regarded as the best chip for the money.
It would mean going over to the dark side though.


I have read good things about the 6600 also.
I like AMD for the price/performance but have no issues with an Intel processor. I use them years ago and they worked fine.
I need to price out the kit for the 6600 and see what an Intel solution adds up too.

Usually, Intel costs a bit more versus AMD. Generally speaking, available CPU's are overkill for what most people use them for anyways.
Aside from wanting something to overclock, or the latest games, and whatever passes for power-hungry applications.

On the server side I guess its more of a question of load that dictates hardware needs. But the desktop...
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Offline itlnstln

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 14:23:32 »
Quote from: bigpook;28652
On the server side I guess its more of a question of load that dictates hardware needs. But the desktop...


...it's all about the size of your e-pen*s...  err...  needs.


Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 14:24:39 »
Quote from: itlnstln;28654
...it's all about the size of your e-pen*s...  err...  needs.

Kind of like driving to the grocery store in a Bugatti.....hey, its still a car right?

But to be fair the cost of upgrading isn't so prohibitive nowadays. You can get 4G of ram for like 60 dollars, which is unbelievable to me. Decent mobo's can be had for under 100  too.
Not like years ago, yeah baby. I remember paying 125 dollars for 1Meg of memory. And at the time thought that was a great price. Now get off my lawn! : ) damn kids.
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Offline itlnstln

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 14:29:32 »
Quote from: bigpook;28655
Kind of like driving to the grocery store in a Bugatti.....hey, its still a car right?


Exactly.  1001 HP?  Hey, groceries are heavy, especially since I would be buying all canned food since I spent all my money on the car.


Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 14:33:37 »
Quote from: itlnstln;28657
Exactly.  1001 HP?  Hey, groceries are heavy, especially since I would be buying all canned food since I spent all my money on the car.


For the price of a Bugatti I am thinking that canned food might be feline related. But hey, the car is mighty fine.
Cat chow, its whats for dinner!
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Offline itlnstln

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 14:43:48 »
Quote from: bigpook;28660
For the price of a Bugatti I am thinking that canned food might be feline related. But hey, the car is mighty fine.
Cat chow, its whats for dinner!


Either that, or 40 lb. bags of dog food.  Pour some in a bowl with some milk...  MMMM, MMMM...  Meat Chex.


Offline FKSSR

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 14:51:21 »
If I were you, I woudn't go for quad.  It doesn't sound like it would be worth it.

I will be building a new computer sometime this year, and I am even thinking of going dual core, since the only intensive thing I do with a computer is gaming (though I don't get too much of that in right now).  I may start doing small music recording, but it wouldn't even be very intensive.

So, I think quad is really only for people doing a lot of non-gaming, intensive work or people really worried about future-proofing.
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Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 14:59:06 »
Quote from: FKSSR;28663
If I were you, I woudn't go for quad.  It doesn't sound like it would be worth it.

I will be building a new computer sometime this year, and I am even thinking of going dual core, since the only intensive thing I do with a computer is gaming (though I don't get too much of that in right now).  I may start doing small music recording, but it wouldn't even be very intensive.

So, I think quad is really only for people doing a lot of non-gaming, intensive work or people really worried about future-proofing.


But the cost isn't that far out of whack.
phenom II 920 @ 189

AMD X2 6400 @ 169

I haven't looked at the Intel pricing yet but its probably in the same ball park. If I stick with AMD there is a 20 dollar up-cost to going with quad versus dual. Thats a pretty small difference.
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Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 15:14:33 »
Quote from: ripster;28666
Intel Quad core all the way.   If you EVER think you may do some video editing (have kids), photoshop(take pictures), or just even have an ipod (handbrake) you will be amazed at the difference.

Then overclock that sucker.  I've got a Q6600 running at 3.6Ghz on air.  

$215
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017

- Ripster

Nice, but this link says the phenom is a little better, its also a bit cheaper

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-ii-940,2114-24.html

Granted, thats for the 940

Here are some other numbers, I have no idea how they cooked them up though

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/common_cpus.html
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Offline itlnstln

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 15:23:58 »
I have a Quad-Core at work, and I absolutely love it.  I have a Dell Precision T5400 with a Xeon E5405 and 4 GB RAM.  It absolutely flies, and the only time I have been able to even come close to stressing it is doing some very complex data analysis using Excel 2007 (which can use mulitple cores/threads, FTW).  Most of the time, though, I can let something run in the background while I work on other things.  Like posting on GeekHack. :)


Offline CX23882

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 15:32:24 »
Some games are coming out that can take advantage of quad core CPUs. GTA IV runs very poorly on dual-core CPUs - I'm running a 2.8GHz Athlon 5400+ and it is borderline playable on minimum settings. I'd say that you absolutely must have a quad core if you're going to play GTA IV (regardless of whether it's a "bad port" or if it's making good use of cutting-edge hardware). Then at the other end of the scale there are games such as Crysis which are GPU bound.

Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 15:35:29 »
Quote from: ripster;28673
Intel or AMD - whatever.    The point I was trying to make is go for the Quad - especially since both of these cost the same and overclock to 3.6G on air.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471

- Ripster


Sorry, the pricing is the same for the 940 and the 6600. I was thinking of the 920 when I was typing. I agree on the quad versus dual as over time more applications will make use of 4 cores. Besides the pricing being good for quad cores.
I don't know if I have the ninja skills to overclock though. I was never much into doing that.
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Offline itlnstln

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 15:41:59 »
Quote from: bigpook;28679

I don't know if I have the ninja skills to overclock though. I was never much into doing that.


With processors as cheap as they are these days, I never really saw the benefit, especially since overclocking can reduce the life of your CPU.  Now, if you upgrade regularly, unlike me these days, this may not be an issue.  I always found that once you bought the components you needed to OC with (faster memory, tweakable motherboard, cooler), you could have bought a faster processor running at stock clock speeds safely.  When processors were more expensive in the early to mid-nineties, OCing made more sense.

Of course, this is all my opinion.


Offline FKSSR

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 15:44:23 »
Ah, I didn't know quad cores were so close to duals these days.  I guess I haven't kept up very well...

Thanks for that info!

I would go with a quad, in that case. :)
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Offline karlito

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 21:13:03 »
Quote from: bigpook;28642
It seems like a quad core would be overkill. And just to make you guys laugh a bit, its not like I really do all that much. I don't game on PC's (anymore), I have no interest in overclocking either. My world is through a web browser, and email of course. I don't do anything that really requires a powerful CPU. But the price/performance is acceptable and I always like a "faster machine".

I upgraded from an Athlon X2 3800+ to a Core 2 duo 3ghz and I only noticed a difference in game FPS.  My average day to day stuff (working in an IDE (eclipse)) i noticed no difference.  If you want a snappier system spend the money on more ram or go crazy and get an SSD.

Offline rdjack21

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 21:16:26 »
I've been thinking about this same thing for a bit now myself as well. But went and blew most of my upgrade money on a RealForce 87U so did something else. Newegg had one of the new OCz Vertex SSD's on sale so bought that instead. All I can say is WOW! What a difference! Much better upgrade for the type of work I do. I got the 30Gig version for $100. This simple upgrade will extend the life  of my current system considerably. And like you have a X2 but I have the 3.2Ghz version.
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard

Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 21:52:08 »
karlito and rdjack21

I didn't think of SSD.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227372

Are you using that as your system drive? I wonder if you could put them in a raid 0.

I could see using SSD as the system drive for fast boots and still use traditional drives for data.

I am using 4G of ram and to tell the truth thats quite a bit for what I am doing. I probably was ok at 2G. All things considered I suppose I/O off of the drive is the limiting factor.
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Offline rdjack21

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 13 April 2009, 23:10:23 »
Quote from: bigpook;28729
karlito and rdjack21

I didn't think of SSD.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227372

Are you using that as your system drive? I wonder if you could put them in a raid 0.

I could see using SSD as the system drive for fast boots and still use traditional drives for data.

I am using 4G of ram and to tell the truth thats quite a bit for what I am doing. I probably was ok at 2G. All things considered I suppose I/O off of the drive is the limiting factor.


Don't get that one you want this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393

If you want to know why this particular model read this
http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531
Then this update about the shipping version
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3535

And yes you use the SSD for Boot and applications then a Western Digital Raptor/VelociRaptor for the things you change allot then a big HD for the larger stable data (Media stuff)

As far as putting them in RAID0 Yes their are people doing that with hardware RAID and they scream. Software RAID works but it is not as fast.

Any ways it really made a difference in perceived system performance on my system and I am only using one of them. I don't run games on my system but I do run big applications like Eclipse and Netbeans and start up time for these big dynamic applications has significantly decreased.
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard

Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 06:00:31 »
rdjack21

I need to check that out. I have some parts on order as is. The OS is running on a single disc right now, when I upgrade I will go to a raid 0 which should improve the speed.
Later on I can implement the SSD drives.
I am running linux so there is some reading that I will need to do. As always, there is probably something that will bite me if I don't do the due diligence.
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Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 06:01:34 »
Quote from: ripster;85337
Rdjack.  Just noticed you put TRACKBALLs in your sig.  

With enough momentum Geekhack could turn from a keyboard into a trackball forum.  

Nah.......

- Ripster


I for one welcome our new trackball using overlords. Go trackballs!
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Offline ozar

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 06:34:21 »
I've always thought of these forums as more of an input device website rather than keyboards only.  :)

Offline rdjack21

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 09:04:28 »
Yea I added the track balls because I noticed someone else had them listed so I thought what the heck and added mine :) Once I have figured out which board I want to use at work I'm going to start trying some more trackballs :)
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard

Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline itlnstln

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 09:09:32 »
Quote from: rdjack21;85378
Once I have figured out which board I want to use at work...


Like that'll happen. :rolleyes:

:smile:


Offline rdjack21

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 09:32:52 »
Quote from: bigpook;85350
rdjack21

I need to check that out. I have some parts on order as is. The OS is running on a single disc right now, when I upgrade I will go to a raid 0 which should improve the speed.
Later on I can implement the SSD drives.
I am running linux so there is some reading that I will need to do. As always, there is probably something that will bite me if I don't do the due diligence.


I'm using mine on Ubuntu so no issue there. One of the things you want to do is to limit the drive to be mostly read with very little write operations. The easiest way to do that is put /tmp /var /home on your hard drive and every thing else on the SSD. Also just so you know one of the SSD's we are talking about here will outperform your RAID0 read performance even if you use VelociRaptor's for your RAID drives. For writes the RAID0 will beat it depending on the drives you use but they are catching up fast. So for now the best place for SSD's is for boot/application drives. Just think about it the fastest HD out their the VelociRaptor can only sustain 119MB/s but this SSD will do 255MB/s. I wish I could find that graph on ANandTech which showed the SSD's slamming VelociRaptor RAID's but I can't.

As you can tell I'm sold on the SSD's but as you said you do need to read up on them a little so you understand how to implement them to get the best performance out of them. Those two articles I linked to previously should be a good start though especially the fist one as it explains how they work and explains the problems with SSD's. The second one is really a follow up that shows that the shipping version of the Vortex SSD is even faster than the one tested in the first article.
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard

Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline rdjack21

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 09:34:15 »
Quote from: itlnstln;85381
Like that'll happen. :rolleyes:

:smile:


So true but I'm still hopping I can at least find one that I can live with for a bit while I explore trackballs.
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard

Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline ozar

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 09:39:06 »
Quote
Quad core versus Dual core


I went with a dual-core CPU on the last box that I built (about 6 months ago) and am quite happy with the performance, but if I had it to do over again, I'd probably go with quad-core just to be more up to date with current with technology if nothing else.  As for brands, I've always had great success with AMD processors, but the Intel in this box has also served me well.

Best of luck with the new build!  :cool:

Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 09:59:14 »
Quote from: rdjack21;85388
I'm using mine on Ubuntu so no issue there. One of the things you want to do is to limit the drive to be mostly read with very little write operations. The easiest way to do that is put /tmp /var /home on your hard drive and every thing else on the SSD. Also just so you know one of the SSD's we are talking about here will outperform your RAID0 read performance even if you use VelociRaptor's for your RAID drives. For writes the RAID0 will beat it depending on the drives you use but they are catching up fast. So for now the best place for SSD's is for boot/application drives. Just think about it the fastest HD out their the VelociRaptor can only sustain 119MB/s but this SSD will do 255MB/s. I wish I could find that graph on ANandTech which showed the SSD's slamming VelociRaptor RAID's but I can't.

As you can tell I'm sold on the SSD's but as you said you do need to read up on them a little so you understand how to implement them to get the best performance out of them. Those two articles I linked to previously should be a good start though especially the fist one as it explains how they work and explains the problems with SSD's. The second one is really a follow up that shows that the shipping version of the Vortex SSD is even faster than the one tested in the first article.

Thanks for the excellent advice. I am researching it now.

So what are your boot times? And are you running 9.04?
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Offline o2dazone

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 10:11:50 »
Four cores is nice, but if you're not using an application that can utilize those, then you're really just running on a slow two core processor. I guess it depends on what you do...I know most games don't even support 4 cores, as well as most photo editing software (only some parts of Photoshop run more than 2 cores). I guess if you're running Vista, a lot of the UI can tie up some processing power. If you don't use many applications that utilize more than two cores...then you're just bottlenecking yourself to a 'moderate' 2 core machine

edit: IMO, get a beefy two core, use Tomshardware to find what the new hotness is...but a chip brand should not hold you back if it's testing well on benchmarks and lifetime
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 April 2009, 10:15:11 by o2dazone »

Offline rdjack21

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 10:59:16 »
Quote from: bigpook;85392
Thanks for the excellent advice. I am researching it now.

So what are your boot times? And are you running 9.04?


Boot times? Who reboots their system?

Not running 9.04 yet but I was planning on installing it this weekend. So will let you know how that goes.
Keyboards
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Offline bigpook

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« Reply #39 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 11:16:42 »
Quote from: rdjack21;85402
Boot times? Who reboots their system?

Not running 9.04 yet but I was planning on installing it this weekend. So will let you know how that goes.


I upgraded 8.10 to the 9.04 beta. I don't see much of a change though.
When I get the new cpu I will do a fresh install.

I normally don't turn my machines off but have been rebooting lately with all the changes that the beta is going through. The only time my machines go down is to reboot for a new kernel or when we lose power. Here in Florida that happens a bit during the summertime.
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Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 11:23:33 »
Quote from: o2dazone;85393
Four cores is nice, but if you're not using an application that can utilize those, then you're really just running on a slow two core processor. I guess it depends on what you do...I know most games don't even support 4 cores, as well as most photo editing software (only some parts of Photoshop run more than 2 cores). I guess if you're running Vista, a lot of the UI can tie up some processing power. If you don't use many applications that utilize more than two cores...then you're just bottlenecking yourself to a 'moderate' 2 core machine

edit: IMO, get a beefy two core, use Tomshardware to find what the new hotness is...but a chip brand should not hold you back if it's testing well on benchmarks and lifetime


I did some reading and you are right on the 2 core versus 4 core. There doesn't seem like a whole lot of applications are taking advantage of it right now. But I expect that to change over time. The linux guys tend to write for this stuff pretty quick so its just a matter of time.
I thought of going with a dual core intel chip as I am replacing an existing AMD X2 2.8G chip. To be frank, I was happy with what I had but while swapping cards in the box I somehow broke one of the retaining clips for the heatsink. I glued the heat sink to the CPU using thermal adhesive and its good to go but it bothers me that its like that. As a short term solution its ok but the mobo is vertical and the heat sink is hanging there so to speak.
I don't really think it will fall off, but my box runs 24/7. I would hate for something to happen and then the box overheats and burns down the house.
My wife would really hate that. : )

The quad pricing is pretty good and the performance is good enough too. So I think I am ok with it. I will probably upgrade again in a year or so anyways so its all good.

Now I need to figure what to do with the mobo/ram and cpu once I pull it out.
Anyone need 4G of ram?
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Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 12:40:28 »
Quote from: ripster;85421
I've got a hand me down PC thing going:

1) I get the latest
2) Hand me down goes to son for gaming
3) Stick the 3rd generation in a wiring closet downstairs - right now it's a media server for video, pictures, backups, .....
4) Donate the oldest (either school or we have a local PC recycler)

The AMD X2 would be fine in a media server box.  My X2 is running Windows Media Center and my wife loves being able to watch TV recorded shows ala Tivo but 1 better - I've got it set up with DVRMSToolbox to automatically strip commercials.  Also for Hulu, Youtube, etc an X2 is more than enough.

Of course, a big time sink to build 2 PCs at the same time.  

- Ripster

Actually I have done that over the years which is why my file server has a 2G single core chip with 2G of ram : ) It really gets stupid after awhile. Which is a good thing but I have to laugh.

I built a firewall running ipcop and the slowest chip at the time was a 1.8G Sempron. That and 512M of ram. That firewall could be running on a 486 with 32M of ram, and even that would probably be overkill.
Its nice to be living in these times. Computing power is cheap and powerful.

I don't have cable but I do watch videos on Hulu. I need to get a case where the mobo can be horizontal and give that a shot.

Building PC's are pretty quick for me. I like putting them together and enjoy the process.
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #42 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 12:41:20 »
I used to something like that back in the day.  I would get the latest and greatest to be my gaming rig, then use the old gaming rig parts for my "work" PC.  At one point, I used more spare parts to create a Media Center rig mainly for streaming music and playing DVD's.  The video stuff needed a fairly powerful CPU (at the time), and I got tires of messing with the Media Center stuff, so I ditched it and got discrete components.  For music, I got a Creative Digital Music something or other that has a remote with a display to browse the music on the host PC, and there is a base unit that has a SPDI/F out that goes to my receiver.


Offline bigpook

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« Reply #43 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 12:44:06 »
I got the streaming audio and pictures working with mediatomb to the PS3 but haven't done movies yet. Thats all running on the NAS box right now. So I guess I already kind of have a streaming media server?
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Offline D-EJ915

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 12:45:45 »
99% of applications are not multithreaded and desktop OS processor load balancing is practically nonexistent.  Get a dual core unless you like wasting money on extra energy, you can overclock them more if you want to anyway and it you will be able to get more from it that way.

Offline bigpook

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« Reply #45 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 12:54:16 »
Quote from: D-EJ915;85429
99% of applications are not multithreaded and desktop OS processor load balancing is practically nonexistent.  Get a dual core unless you like wasting money on extra energy, you can overclock them more if you want to anyway and it you will be able to get more from it that way.


I think I am bummed out now, but thanks for the heads up.
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #46 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 13:01:01 »
Those look the sinks on BMW motorcycles.  I was always amazed how riders didn't burn themselves on those things since they stuck out about a foot from each side:
 
http://www.gatewaybmw.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/bmw-r-1200-rt.jpg <- This is decent example, but it's not BMW's worst.


Offline bigpook

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« Reply #47 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 13:20:03 »
Quote from: ripster;85435
May be true if you're not into video but then you don't get to have one of these:

Show Image


Brings a smile to my face every time I open up my box and keeps my legs warm.

- Ripster


I have one of those, or something similar with a fan on it. Artic Cooler or something.
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Offline D-EJ915

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« Reply #48 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 14:05:29 »
Quote from: ripster;85435
May be true if you're not into video but then you don't get to have one of these:
Heh, don't run final cut then, it renders with 1 CPU.

Offline bigpook

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« Reply #49 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 14:24:02 »
Quote from: D-EJ915;85461
Heh, don't run final cut then, it renders with 1 CPU.


So what you are saying is that anything above a single core is not being used?

At all?

If so, then I am not the only one that has been snookered.

I need to let the rest of the yahoo's on newegg know that they are being hosed.
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Offline bhtooefr

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #50 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 18:05:58 »
Well, even in singletasking, a dual-core can provide benefits, just by putting the background apps on their own core.

Although, I'm a fairly heavy multi-tasker, the best workload for a multi-core CPU, and I rarely top out both cores on my 1.6 GHz Core 2 Duo (but I often max one out with Flash video.)

Offline bigpook

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« Reply #51 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 18:26:05 »
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Offline bigpook

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« Reply #52 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 19:12:47 »
Quote from: ripster;85576
Boy, Pook, you're really analyzing this one:confused::confused::confused::confused:.  Especially when you've said you don't need the extra power.   Just get some cableties and strap that heatsink down:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Anyway, being stubborn I'm still pushing for quad.   Ya gotta look at articles written in 2009, not 2007.

http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=4090&page=18

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/259381-28-quad-core-dual-core

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=28&threadid=2242735

The last is the best.  It all depends on what software you run.

- Ripster


Sorry, you are right. I can be obsessive compulsive sometimes.
While you would think that is a negative it does have its uses. The phone switches I program spin like tops. Makes my customers happy and no one has to clean up behind me.
But in my defense, have you read some of the threads here on geekhack?
: ) I think I have lots of company : )



But I don't like the idea of tie wraps : ) There is just no way I will do that.
The thermal adhesive seems to be holding. Actually, I don't think that heatsink is going anywhere. lol, I was actually thinking the damn thing was going to separate and the chip would overheat and burst into flames.

Let me read the links you posted. I have been doing some additional reading and overall I think I made the right choice.
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Offline bigpook

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« Reply #53 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 19:35:28 »
Quote from: ripster;85585
Just ribbing you.     Anyone with more than 2 keyboards can be considered obsessive.



I missed this though.  What did you order?

- Ripster

I went with the phenom 920 that runs at 2.8G. The 940 looked interesting but it seemed to be aimed at overclockers. But from what I am reading, the 920 overclocks well too.
But I don't do overclocking : )
Seems kind of pointless to me but that is just my opinion.

I looked at the intels but I think the amd's still have the best bang for the buck. I could have went with this though
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036

but from what I am reading the phenom outperforms that. Not by much though.

I should add that there are some people that are way serious about CPU's. The flaming between Intel and AMD can be intense and the overclocking guys with their water cooling apparatus are a hoot.
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 April 2009, 19:37:58 by bigpook »
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Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #54 on: Tue, 14 April 2009, 20:28:32 »
Quote from: ripster;85598
Hah, I thought you'd go quad in the end.

Show Image


- Ripster


Nice.
For what I am doing, and for the price/performance I can't see why not.
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Offline Hak Foo

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 00:41:13 »
Quote from: bigpook;85589
I went with the phenom 920 that runs at 2.8G. The 940 looked interesting but it seemed to be aimed at overclockers.


I had a 9950 and swapped for a 940 because there was a one-day special selling them locally at $180; found it tended to be less "sticky" than the 9950.  I don't even use the unlocked-multiplier gimmick, but the extra 400MHz and cache over the 9950 seems to produce extra smoothness in everyday operations.

What board are you running?  I had an Asus AMD770 board, but I just didn't like it (it seemed so threadbare, and it had this huge hairball over a specific TV card I wanted to use), so I got a Gigabyte 790X.  I wonder if subliminally, I hated the 770 board because it only had one PS/2 port, and so it was representing a sign of the looming threat posed to my 1391401.
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Offline eugenius

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #56 on: Sat, 25 April 2009, 23:15:27 »
I have an old q6600, I run it at 3200MHz 1.2V with all the powersaving tech on, full undervolted noctua cooler and fans. Silent as a whisper, cool enough (hdd in a suspended scythe box).

There's no reason to not go quad. Only benchmark overclockers care about dual core now ....
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Offline Manyak

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #57 on: Sun, 26 April 2009, 01:30:17 »
Quote from: eugenius;87333
I have an old q6600, I run it at 3200MHz 1.2V with all the powersaving tech on, full undervolted noctua cooler and fans. Silent as a whisper, cool enough (hdd in a suspended scythe box).

There's no reason to not go quad. Only benchmark overclockers care about dual core now ....


Gamers also care, because no games (other than GTA4 which sucks anyway) take advantage of a quad. So higher clocked dual > lower clocked quad for gaming.
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Offline Hak Foo

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« Reply #58 on: Sun, 26 April 2009, 02:42:04 »
Also because, for many games, "$150 CPU + $300 video card > $300 CPU + $150 video card".  Apparently, you can still get pretty decent gaming performance with just about anything Athlon X2 / Core 2 or higher.
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Offline Des

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #59 on: Sun, 26 April 2009, 09:16:33 »
Quad  vs Dual, quickie. ( as short as I can possibly write about a subject Im passionate about)

Intel/Amd:
Price/performance contest = Intel win. ( been "by far!!" a few years not "far!!" anymore but still obviously clear leader )

only performance (fastest few CPU's avalible) = Intel win, ( By far!! )

( Ive switched back / forth between AMD / INTEL always choosen either what is the fastest avalible OR whats the best price/performance. Always bought platform based on atleast 40+ reviews / test and forum discussions and months thinking and planning looking at whats comming down the line. I read hardware news every day a minimum of 30min to 1 hour ^^ .  Its a Hobby)

Quad for:
Multitasking!
future proof

Dual for:
everything else
non (long time)future proof

Games:
(Dont matter at all. all GPU bound in any decent resolution(1920x1080+)))
(... but IF you are updating your system very seldom.. research)

Reason to go Quad:
*You wish to use multiple heavy programs(or multithreaded's) at once,  I.E. Photoshop + After effects + 3D studio max and Maya ( dont forget to raid and or atleast use system drive SSD's to match the CPU though ! )
*heavy gaming some games are now multithreaded(check any review on tomshardware anandtech etc, etc. but this is a future issue since all is GPU dependent on any good resolution) , only Shows on SLi-systems. (did some and read lots testing on a single gtx 285 before I popped the 2nd in on my most resent build)
*you are in a standard bussines productivity settup or more ( I.e. 2+ monitors and lots of multitasking )

reason to go Dual:
Dont really game much.
Not really a heavy computer user.
are a "regular" computer user.
Game only on single GPU and/or low resolutions

extra:
reason to go i7 and DDR3  : none, really.
(exeption = long long time semi-system future proof)

If you do not do any serious work, or game at high resolutions..  well get a 2nd hand old computer and pop a slightly newer GPU in it.   you dont need anything else.


Why quad is great:
3monitors
1 screen running Crysis(max everything)
1 screen running  Grafics programs+chat+50tabs Firefox + + + etc.
1 screen running HD content
(and the computer don't complain at all, smoooth)

Not that this is what you whant to do at all times but that this is possible is what makes the difference.
that you close to never need to close a program.
or for instance.  open 3 games in windowed mode. and just minimize the one your not playing.  ;)  *for the fun of it.

original poster: you mentioned you didnt really game etc etc.  
well you should really get the cheapest thing you can get, cause you will not be using the hardware anyway ^^

on i7 ( and comming i5) and ddr3:
this is also a non-issue:
check the multitude of articles written on the subject, most resent one was on tomshardware I belive. showing how No games today in any way what so ever would ever need or use more then 3GB of ram. and Showing zero difference with more ram then that.
[Some gets fooled into getting expensive parts just so they can use ddr3 now that Ram has become dirt cheap.]
Fast processors theese days are a strange thing and only for REALLY heavy computing use not games.
*lets hope the GPU's catch up. and started multithreaded computing continues to develop.


But yea, first thing: try and realise what you -actually- Use your computer for.  almost 90% of computer users today buy more powerful or miss-managed computer setups.  Stuff ya dont need.  That you could have bought another 2 keyboards instead.
*Its like buying a 4x4 city-Jeep and driving it around in the city..
Not bloody needed! sure It is cool n'all, But a Volvo is safer.
It is ok to buy stuff cause its cool, just be selfaware enough to realise you buy it cause its cool and not cause u need it or use it.
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 April 2009, 09:32:36 by Des »

Offline Manyak

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #60 on: Sun, 26 April 2009, 12:43:18 »
Ok that's a pretty long post so I'm just not gonna hit the quote button on this one....

But there's two little errors in your post:

1- Quads do absolutely nothing for multitasking in a "business productivity" setting. All the standard business programs - Word, Excel, whatever browser, etc - all sit idle 99% of the time. So even if you want to run 3 monitors a Dual, hell even a single, is enough for that. For that level of multitasking RAM is king. Not the CPU.

2- Also, for price/performance, AMD is way ahead of Intel right now. Just look at newegg: You can get an AMD Phenoum II Quad for $170, while a Core i7 at the same speed costs $280. And that's not even including the fact that the Core i7 needs more expensive motherboards and 3 sticks of DDR3 memory (PhenII can use 2 sticks of either DDR2 or DDR3). The main reason Intel has been selling more is because their CPUs have been more overclockable - but the PhenII has pretty much caught up.
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Offline Des

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #61 on: Sun, 26 April 2009, 13:22:05 »
1) By "business productivity" setting  I was referring to first the standardised use of 2 monitors, and On 2 monitors at home You really could be doing other things then Office and if not you should use only a 10 year old computer cause that is all you need.
I figured that was obvious.
So, office suite, no I was thinking on far more complex computing then that, I surely should have been clearer, appologies. Although I also thought that would have been obvious from the situation I described a few times there.

2) amd 2.6 Ghz and intel 2.6 Ghz is not the same speed. period, check reviews wikipedia whatever. Pure Ghz has never been the "same speed", as they do different amount of tasks per clock cyckle. so to speak.

If you get into  CPU's youīll see this, this is the way it has always been.
there are so many mistakes because of this, an easy slip but changes can be as wide as one 2Ghz Chip beeing half as fast as another 2Ghz chip from another manufacturer.  It is a measurement of clockcyckle, but different CPU's gets more or less done so to speak in a clockcykle.  can be double can be tripple.

to make it easy, look here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-q3-2008/benchmarks,31.html
there are reviews everywhere but that makes a general comparason clear, fast.
and you do not need an i7 to beat the phenom II's  you can get much much older adn cheaper Intel Chips. in fact I did talk about not gettin a pricey i7 in the post if you have a look again.

I guess I should say google a review but its a common misstake.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/socket-am3-phenom,2148.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/phenom-ii-x4-810.html
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2343564,00.asp?kc=ETRSS03039TX1K0000564
http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/CPU/AMD-Phenom-II-X4-810.html

In many tests the i7 you linked are infact Double teh speed of the X4 810, and some reviews dont even put it up against i7's but rather Core2's and Core2quads.  where they do often enough "win".

However a CPU review is a delicate matter, and to really undersand it they should all be read. And you use the CPU for the task at hand.

in any case a AMD Phenom II Quad for $170, vs Core i7 at the DOUBLE the speed costs $280.  isnt to bad. certainly not considering  that Phenom should be put next to Cheapo Core Quad. and the higher Phenoms do use DDr3 aswell.(and some of the Expensive Phenoms with DDr3 (not teh chip but as you said mobo+ram) Is beaten by old CoreQuads aswell.)
http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/CPU/AMD-Phenom-II-X4-810-DDR3-vs.-DDR2.html
*I keep remembering things to ad, But grabbing  phenom for DDR3  one shoudl really read up on all the  laughable issues They have had with DDr3 in even their sold production models.
*I still have 2 AMD boxes here at home doing their thing, But the last few years.. AMD's been and still are in really really bad shape, and that is damned sad. Hell I remember my trusty K6 Chip, sticking it to the man ( so to speak ). I do think they will recover, but itīll take  atelast 1 or 2 incarnations more.
*and to be clear ( I guess i should so no further missunderstandings come)  as said before IF your heaviest Computer use is from games, You are well of with a 3 year old Core2Duo.  It really dosn't matter. So in the end what matter's in the CPU choice is -only- If you actually have some more professional demanding use of your computer. getting a SSD would increse overall system responsiveness and "feel" much more then a faster CPU.
*"The main reason...selling more because ...more overclockable" And If you really think that small-time enthuseast overcklocking has anything to do with marketshare, you are way of mark in many ways.
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 April 2009, 14:29:45 by Des »

Offline keyb_gr

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #62 on: Sun, 26 April 2009, 16:15:37 »
I would agree that a quad core is way over the top for a typical "office productivity" setting. It's a good thing to have two cores though (system feels so much smoother in certain situations), plus the fastest harddrive you can justify.

Other points important for an office productivity setting are:
Longterm quality - as it affects how well the system works and how stable it is. My work PC has a cheapo Asrock board of 2003 vintage or so (that also was the first and last time the department bought an off-the-shelf system), and the darn thing needs its 'lytics to warm up for a few minutes until it's stable with bus disconnect enabled, plus it lacks the retaining thingy at the AGP port, and at least one of the USBs is flaky. At least it takes the old G81-1000 without complaint. My P2B-D, on the other hand, has been running like a champ, and any stability issues turned out to be either driver related or due to cooling problems (one of the procs had bad thermal contact, eventually solved with a healthy dose of thermal grease).
Noise - obvious.
Keeping dust out - not so obvious, but a good idea when you want to keep noise levels permanently low. Otherwise it may be necessary to clean out the power supply (and maybe more) once a year or so, which is what I do.
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline Manyak

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #63 on: Sun, 26 April 2009, 16:36:23 »
Pfft, I've been into PCs since the 386 days :)

And yes, I know the Ci7 is faster than the PhenII in most situations. But there are times the PhenII is equal or better, so you can't really say that its double the speed, hands down. Its only mainly in server and high-end workstation applications (like databases or rendering), where the Ci7 is king. Though just last year, for those same applications, Opterons were better than Xeons for the same things, and are a better choice if you don't need the performance of an i7. But either way, what we're looking at here are the prices you're going to pay for a decent computer based on the two platforms.

So since the case and HDDs can be the same, lets take into account the parts that differ:

Ci7 Setup:
CPU - $280
Motherboard - $200
RAM - $50 for 3GB
PSU: $55
Graphics card: $25

Total: $610

PhenII setup:
CPU: $170
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131381"]Motherboard[/URL]: $84
RAM: $41 for 4GB
PSU: $38
Graphics card: Not needed

Total: $333

So once you take into consideration all the parts you'll be getting, the overall price is a lot cheaper. How much more performace will a Ci7 get you with regular desktop use anyway? An few seconds shaved off when you want to convert some audio file in iTunes? Most people don't have their PCs encoding music or video 24/7, so its not like those few seconds are worth the extra $280. Then again, if you have a company that does a lot of rendering, the added bonus of an i7 would be much more beneficial since everyone will be able to work faster, and therefore cost less since you won't have to pay as much in wages.

Another way (actually a better way) to look at this is to look at the best PC you can get at a certain price point. Including all currently sold CPUs (C2s, Athlons, etc), AMD gives you better bang for your buck at the low and mid price points. So if you want to spend around $500 or less on a PC AMD is a better choice than Intel. Look at the price of the system above - just try and build an Intel setup for that same price that matches its performance.

And yes the enthusiasts have a big say in what the market share is, believe it or not. How many families do you know who don't have a relative or friend who is an enthusiast? All those families end up asking that person what kind of computer they should buy, what they should upgrade, etc. So while the enthusiast market is relatively small, they do have a big influence on what gets sold. And most enthusiasts, sadly, don't know as much as they think they do. A lot of them apply false logic, like for example, that because an E8400 is the best for them, Intel in general is best for everyone. Or sometimes the people asking the questions understand it wrong - the statement "Intel makes faster processors than AMD" could mean many things, none of them taking into account the price.


But all in all yes I agree, for general usage the best upgrade you can do to a computer is get it an SSD, or at least good 15k SAS drives if you can't be bothered to do a SECURE_ERASE every few months to keep the speed up (or can't afford SLC drives).
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 April 2009, 18:43:56 by Manyak »
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Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #64 on: Sun, 26 April 2009, 17:49:47 »
Hey guys, I appreciate the give and take thats going on here. It makes one pause to re-consider.

I got the phenom a week or so ago and from what I am doing with it I don't really see a performance increase over what I had previously ( amd x2 @ 2.8 ). I have absolutely no complaints with the phenom either. It runs cool, and on occasion I actually get all 4 cores to hit their top clock speed. Most of the time it just lopes along, unstressed.

I like what Manyak says in his last post, going to a SSD or 15k drive would give me a better upgrade. For me anyways, I am thinking that today's CPU's more than meet what most people will be needing.
The overclockers, gamers and people running whatever it is that they are running that require the latest and greatest  are a small percentage compared to the rest of the computer using community.

My first computer was a 486/33 DX. From that day till now I guess, it was always upgrade, upgrade and upgrade. I always saw an improvement over what I previously had. This last go around I think that is coming to an end. Especially with the latest version of ubuntu.  Now it looks like faster harddrives are the component that needs to be looked at.

Wonder what I will be buying next year.
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Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 26 April 2009, 18:34:08 »
I think Balmer is doing some great things at Microsoft. I hope he continues on that path that he is on.
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Offline bhtooefr

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #66 on: Sun, 26 April 2009, 18:54:55 »
Great things like talking about developers, helping create jobs in the chair industry, and ****ing killing Google? :p

Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #67 on: Sun, 26 April 2009, 19:36:23 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;87458
Great things like talking about developers, helping create jobs in the chair industry, and ****ing killing Google? :p


Exactly. He is the best man to run MS at this time. I wish him continued success.
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Offline Des

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 27 April 2009, 04:59:33 »
Manyak

Good mornin.
I disagree, read the reviews again,  As already said You putting that i7 against that phenom is wrong, use an old cheaper Core2Quad you end up with a cheaper and faster system.

Im not saying this all reviews published are saying this, read them.

.
Now for coffee.
.
got coffee "ahhhhhh"
So read the reviews,  this is the point, as one says for instance the Cheaper Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 Is faster then AMD Phenom II X4 810, other reviews use other processors and this is the point.
Another said that very Chip  AMD Phenom II X4 810 was AMDs try to get in on Intels Price/Performance but it Does right out fail.
I never go by views, Go by facts. and hell all facts are saying this. why are you debating this? Not read reviews?
AMD catching up yes. But it is obvious they need another year or so, and some luck.
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 April 2009, 05:28:42 by Des »

Offline bigpook

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #69 on: Mon, 27 April 2009, 07:14:11 »
Maybe comparing the phenom to the i7 is a bit unfair. I still think that bang for the buck AMD is a better deal. I need to read the reviews again. If I can remember to do so tonight when I get in I will post what I am reading.
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Offline Des

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #70 on: Mon, 27 April 2009, 07:42:32 »
Quote from: bigpook;87507
Maybe comparing the phenom to the i7 is a bit unfair. I still think that bang for the buck AMD is a better deal. I need to read the reviews again. If I can remember to do so tonight when I get in I will post what I am reading.

Yea its all back and forth, and the discussion is pretty useless anyway.

"AMD will most likely adjust its product range accordingly within the next few months"  <- this has happened a couple of weeks back and Im resonable sure Itīll recieve another cut next month or so. ( By then AMD should be in a great position, but its so useless cause most everybody dont need a new CPU anyway)

"Our tests showed that its performance is comparable to that of Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200" <- theese are now the same price (although the intel can be found at lower price point)

"AMD try to compete with Intel's Core 2 Quad Q9400 model"
Itīs not Like AMD is in anyway phasing this Chip towards an i7. They arent stupid.

All in all you cant really make a "wrong" choice. Mostly based on that Iīd be willing to bet not a lot are actually using their CPU's anyway.

NVIDIa have made some controversial press conferences lately about all new CPU's beeing unneeded.

And this is the sad thing really. Its all fun to buy a speedcar, but If your only gonna be stuck in queue's on your commute to work, whats the need?

But as we come from a world where CPU's did matter its hard to make the change. With SSD's around and GPU's domminating the game performance, this is where debates should go when buying a new computer. Anything else is useless.

And I do tend to call real CPU use for professional use only cause it would involve  pricey  software like Maya After Effects AutoCad and very large projects in theese software.
Itīs all so silly.

Really a focus on computers should be on,  Monitor(anyone noticed how cheap theese things are now?, grab a 26" or two) keyboard(!!!!) Harddrive(SSD) and Grafics card(your only focus for gaming). nothing else really.

Unless you actually need the CPU power for real computing ( I do) but that is such a minisqule part of humanity its almost laughable.
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 April 2009, 07:55:24 by Des »

Offline IBI

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Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #71 on: Mon, 27 April 2009, 09:14:20 »
Quote from: Des;87512
Really a focus on computers should be on,  Monitor(anyone noticed how cheap theese things are now?, grab a 26" or two) keyboard(!!!!) Harddrive(SSD) and Grafics card(your only focus for gaming). nothing else really.

Unless you actually need the CPU power for real computing ( I do) but that is such a minisqule part of humanity its almost laughable.


I largely agree (although you do need a decent CPU for some gaming) and encourage people to look at the screen and keyboard/mouse quality and well as how noisy the thing is. Unfortunately, manufacturers and sellers don't provide any useful information on the quality so the only real way to decide is to limit your search to those products that have several reviews availible (assuming you don't have a large range of computers to go and play with locally). This is more of a problem with laptops since at least you can generally fix whatever's wrong with a desktop.
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Offline Manyak

  • Posts: 295
Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #72 on: Mon, 27 April 2009, 11:12:50 »
Quote from: Des;87489
Manyak

Good mornin.
I disagree, read the reviews again,  As already said You putting that i7 against that phenom is wrong, use an old cheaper Core2Quad you end up with a cheaper and faster system.

Im not saying this all reviews published are saying this, read them.

.
Now for coffee.
.
got coffee "ahhhhhh"
So read the reviews,  this is the point, as one says for instance the Cheaper Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 Is faster then AMD Phenom II X4 810, other reviews use other processors and this is the point.
Another said that very Chip  AMD Phenom II X4 810 was AMDs try to get in on Intels Price/Performance but it Does right out fail.
I never go by views, Go by facts. and hell all facts are saying this. why are you debating this? Not read reviews?
AMD catching up yes. But it is obvious they need another year or so, and some luck.


I did read the reviews (which I had seen before), and they said pretty much the opposite - that the PhenII 2.6GHz is faster than a Q8200. Actually, the only test they were bad with in those reviews was Photoshop.

Quote from: IBI;87531
I largely agree (although you do need a decent CPU for some gaming) and encourage people to look at the screen and keyboard/mouse quality and well as how noisy the thing is. Unfortunately, manufacturers and sellers don't provide any useful information on the quality so the only real way to decide is to limit your search to those products that have several reviews availible (assuming you don't have a large range of computers to go and play with locally). This is more of a problem with laptops since at least you can generally fix whatever's wrong with a desktop.


That's why you build it yourself! :D

When you do it yourself there are a lot of things you can add to make it quiet that OEM PCs don't do. Such as rubber grommets for the fans and hard drives, sound dampening foam for the case walls, rubber case feet, giant CPU heatsinks with low RPM fans, underclocking to reduce heat (and therefore turn the fans down), choosing low-noise hard drives....
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Offline IBI

  • Posts: 492
Quad core versus Dual core
« Reply #73 on: Tue, 28 April 2009, 13:22:45 »
Quote from: Manyak;87560
That's why you build it yourself! :D

When you do it yourself there are a lot of things you can add to make it quiet that OEM PCs don't do. Such as rubber grommets for the fans and hard drives, sound dampening foam for the case walls, rubber case feet, giant CPU heatsinks with low RPM fans, underclocking to reduce heat (and therefore turn the fans down), choosing low-noise hard drives....


My desktop has got rubber grommets, a giant heatsink, low RPM fans and a low-noise hard drive (and would have had a great monitor If I'd not been forced to buy a year ago).

Unfortunately, laptops and all in ones (which make up a significant portion of 'computers' these days) are a lot less friendly to that sort of thing. You can't even specify it to come without HDD so you can install an SSD.
Owned: Raptor-Gaming K1 (linear MX)(Broken), IBM Model M UK, Dell AT102W, Left-handed keyboard with Type 1 Simplified Alps.