Author Topic: still love my 'silenced' endurapro (Read 6159 times)

wellington1869 · « **on:** Mon, 19 January 2009, 00:04:36 »

its amazing that for 3 weeks now I've loved this keyboard. Amazing cuz I went thru a dozen boards in about the span of a month before settling on this one, for a while it didnt look like I was going to be able to make up my mind. Also amazing because I used to own this board a couple of years ago and sold it back then cuz I didnt think it came up to the same high standards as the model M.

I guess a few things have changed since I last owned this board. For the first time last month I was able to compare a real M to the endurapro side by side. I still think M beats the heck out of endurapro in quality, but three things I liked a lot were the normal layout (normal sized spacebar etc), usb connection and generally updated electronics, and most of all, the lighter springs. M felt too heavy to me this time around, even though its sounds are still top notch.
A little silicon grease silencing and the deal was sealed. Clickety clackety bliss.

The BS is such a special switch. It gives equal parts of joy to one's fingers and ears. Such positive tactile feedback at the finger tips, you can feel the shock of the 'buckle' transmitted up your knuckles to your brain. And such definitive feedback for the ears. Its like driving a locomotive (in a good way). It even hisses as the boards resonance kicks in at speed. The only thing missing is the smell of fuel. The reason my typing test speeds are highest with the BS switch is because of accuracy rather than raw speed. Its the only board on which I approach 98% accuracy. Its amazing. On every other board I score around 93%.

I think another thing that helped me finally settle on one board was having gone thru the whirlwind experience of acquiring and testing out nearly every other type of mechanical board and realizing there really wasnt anything much better out there. For me anyway.

I think I like this board (albeit in modded form) about as much as xs likes his topre. Which is a lot!

Still want to try a tp2 but I'm totally happy with this one. If anything later on I might buy a customizer 104 with black keys from unicomp since I dont want the trackpoint at all. But its low on the priority list for now. As for my dell at101w, havent even used it much since I got it (but at $10 its not even worth selling).

I do have an smk85 with gray strongmans to sell. I'll put that up on marketplace soon I guess.

sandy55 · « **Reply #1 on:** Mon, 19 January 2009, 00:17:35 »

I named my silenced 5576-C01 ( a Japanese variant of Endurapro) * My Fair Lady*. Grease treatment works fine with childish M2. Your M2 will grow up to a senior high school girl instantly.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #2 on:** Mon, 19 January 2009, 00:30:22 »

Quote from: sandy55;18659

I named my silenced 5576-C01 ( a Japanese variant of Endurapro) * My Fair Lady*. Grease treatment works fine with childish M2. Your M2 will grow up to a senior high school girl instantly.

lol

I call my greased endurapro a "civilized" bs board. I can use it without my neighbors killing me now.

Do you have a pic of your 5576-C01? Is it japanese buckling springs?!

xsphat · « **Reply #3 on:** Mon, 19 January 2009, 01:24:33 »

Quote from: sandy55;18659

Your M2 will grow up to a senior high school girl instantly.

*runs to grab M2 from child's room*

sandy55 · « **Reply #4 on:** Mon, 19 January 2009, 06:37:15 »

Quote from: wellington1869;18662

Do you have a pic of your 5576-C01? Is it japanese buckling springs?!

Sold in Japan only. but actually IBM Canada made it( according to the label). This one uses same buckling mechanism as Model M. But key feel is rather rough and noisy ( probably like Endurapro )
Japanese buckling switches are available on 5576-A01 and -003.

There are two variations in 5576-C01. One is with a single cable and the other is with a separated cable for PS/2 port and mouse port.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #5 on:** Mon, 19 January 2009, 12:38:37 »

thanks for the pics sandy. I also saw the links you provided in another thread. Very interesting, I didnt realize endurapro was based on an older international design.

so did this keyboard come pre-greased (the 'soft touch' version)? Or did you grease it yourself?

itlnstln · « **Reply #6 on:** Mon, 19 January 2009, 12:41:22 »

Nice keyboard in the pics, but someone needs to put a little soap and water to the case.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #7 on:** Mon, 19 January 2009, 15:36:02 »

Sometime when I have a lot of time, I want to figure out how to shorten the spacebar on my M to a normal size. (actually the real challenge will be in moving/shifting the left and right alt keys over so they're still next to the spacebar). Ie, I want to actually drill a holes and install new switches in those positions to accomodate the alt keys in their new positions. If thats in any way possible without being too kludgy, then I would swap out the M's springs for the endurapro springs, and then I'd really have a perfect board

Maybe even do the usb conversion for an M that I saw someone offering on a geekhack thread once.

sandy55 · « **Reply #8 on:** Tue, 20 January 2009, 02:59:30 »

Quote from: itlnstln;18770

but someone needs to put a little soap and water to the case.

Ouch! I need to do so. I haven't bathed the girl yet since I got it from my mate. It's in the middle of it's way of metamorphosis.

C01 is non-greased buckling. It's a usual M style buckling spring system but with softer (low force) springs.

xsphat · « **Reply #9 on:** Tue, 20 January 2009, 03:13:30 »

Sandy, so you have a pic of your entire collection? I bet it would be drool-worthy.

sandy55 · « **Reply #10 on:** Tue, 20 January 2009, 10:52:37 »

I may have some good quality keyboards ( at least for me ) and I do have many poor boards. I don't have a pic of my entire collection because my room is too narrow to keep them in. most of my good boards are already listed in my web pages among with some poor boards.

lowpoly · « **Reply #11 on:** Tue, 20 January 2009, 10:57:17 »

How many boards do you have? Do you keep track?

bhtooefr · « **Reply #12 on:** Tue, 20 January 2009, 18:50:07 »

Quote from: sandy55

It's a usual M style buckling spring system but with softer (low force) springs.

OK, I need to type on one of those. I suspect I may need those buckling spring units. (But, I'm not sure what board they'd go in, if I could even get them - I really want a 1391401 with a TrackPoint IV, Windows keys, and low-force spring units, preferably with USB, but PS/2 is acceptable.)

wellington1869 · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 21 January 2009, 00:01:57 »

Quote from: sandy55;18682

Sold in Japan only. but actually IBM Canada made it( according to the label). This one uses same buckling mechanism as Model M. But key feel is rather rough and noisy ( probably like Endurapro )
Japanese buckling switches are available on 5576-A01 and -003.

There are two variations in 5576-C01. One is with a single cable and the other is with a separated cable for PS/2 port and mouse port.

sandy, where could someone in the US buy one of these? I get the feeling they are not listed on US ebay or retail stores. Also, how much would one cost, do you think? Thanks.

sandy55 · « **Reply #14 on:** Wed, 21 January 2009, 06:15:20 »

Quote from: wellington1869;19045

sandy, where could someone in the US buy one of these? I get the feeling they are not listed on US ebay or retail stores. Also, how much would one cost, do you think? Thanks.

These are Japanese 106 key keyboards. I don't think you can get them in US market. Maybe, Yahoo japan auction might be the only source for you. Most of japanese sellers may not ship items internationally.
Seems like 5576-A01 appears on the auction occasionally. not sure about C01. I've been away from auctions ( including eBay ) these three years.
I do not recommend to get C01s in auction. I saw many C01 with defective trackpoint. These were sold for $150 generally till three years ago. Buy it now price for A01 in above auction is about $111.

Chloe · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 21 January 2009, 06:16:37 »

Try Yahoo Japan Auctions. You can use Crescent Shop to bid on items.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #16 on:** Wed, 21 January 2009, 19:21:54 »

Quote from: sandy55;19068

These are Japanese 106 key keyboards. I don't think you can get them in US market. Maybe, Yahoo japan auction might be the only source for you. Most of japanese sellers may not ship items internationally.
Seems like 5576-A01 appears on the auction occasionally. not sure about C01. I've been away from auctions ( including eBay ) these three years.
I do not recommend to get C01s in auction. I saw many C01 with defective trackpoint. These were sold for $150 generally till three years ago. Buy it now price for A01 in above auction is about $111.

Thanks for the info

Here are some chocolates for you

xyzzy · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 22 January 2009, 03:45:40 »

Here's a C01, currently at ~ 56 USD with 3 days left and BIN option for ~ 90 USD (if I understand correctly the translation): http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r51457483

Not sure about the trackpoint condition, the seller doesn't mention anything about it.

sandy55 · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 22 January 2009, 07:13:08 »

Quote from: xyzzy;19140

Here's a C01, currently at ~ 56 USD with 3 days left and BIN option for ~ 90 USD (if I understand correctly the translation): http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r51457483

Not sure about the trackpoint condition, the seller doesn't mention anything about it.

Current price and BIN option are both correct. No comment about trackpoint.
This one is a single cable version (p/n 66G8363). you need an additional Y cable to use it with recent PC. NC pins in a PS/2 plug( pin #2 and #6 ) are assigned for trackpoint signals. You can make your own Y cable, but I'd like to recommend Y cable version ( p/n 66G8362 ). plug end of this version is divided for PS/2 port and mouse port.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 22 January 2009, 18:04:28 »

thanks for the deets guys. Price is a bit steeper than I'd like (also given that I'm not convinced yet that a sub-2-inch spacebar is really what I want). It definitely has some possibilities though, especially if those extra japanese keys are configurable in autohotkey...

sandy55 · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri, 23 January 2009, 03:05:51 »

Quote from: wellington1869;19211

especially if those extra japanese keys are configurable in autohotkey...

Those extra japanese keys don't work on Win XP 101/102 US keyboard driver( Microsoft Natural PS/2 keyboard) in stock condition. So I feel you can't remap extra keys. But If you can select 106/109 key Japanese keyboard driver, you can remap those japanese keys. Seems like dll file for 106/109 JP keyboard is stock ready in Windows US/UK version but inf file doesn't include said dll. You have to modify keyboard inf and remap several keys according to PS/2 layout. It's a bit complicated but I may be wrong because I haven't used remapping tool ever.

now I'm typing this comment with Dell AT-103 ( 106 key JP version of AT-101 Bigfoot ) on US 101 key driver to confirm windows reaction against extra japanese keys.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #21 on:** Fri, 23 January 2009, 08:30:28 »

Windows doesn't do anything because they're not in the map, but are the scancodes processed? Because if they are, there should be a way to use them.

sandy55 · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 23 January 2009, 09:59:56 »

You are probably right. Signals are processed with those keys hence we can use them on JP keyboard driver. Signal ( scancodes ) might not be defined in US keyboard driver.

ch_123 · « **Reply #23 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 04:24:44 »

I was playing around with some silicone grease and an old Model M. What surprised me most was how the sound of the keyboard affects how you perceive the tactility. I had some greased keys which I could have sworn were much less tactile than the non-greased ones. Then I put on some headphones and turned up the volume and tried again. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't tell the difference between the greased and non-greased keys.

If I were to be cynical, I'd say the lack of noise is why a lot of BS and Alps diehards complain that they don't feel anything when typing on Cherry Browns or Topres...

DreymaR · « **Reply #24 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 06:22:01 »

I think the deal with the JP IME keys is simply that they aren't defined in the keyboard layout! So while Windows gets the scan codes just fine it won't do anything with them.

If you look it up in Michael Kaplan's KeysEx (keysex, hehe) you'll even see VK codes unless I've misread something:

Code: [Select]

            VK_CAPITAL              = Keys.Capital,             // 0x14, Keys.CapsLock
            VK_KANA                 = Keys.KanaMode,            // 0x15
            VK_HANGEUL              = Keys.HanguelMode,         // 0x15, Keys.HangulMode
            VK_JUNJA                = Keys.JunjaMode,           // 0x17
            VK_FINAL                = Keys.FinalMode,           // 0x18
            VK_HANJA                = Keys.HanjaMode,           // 0x19
            VK_KANJI                = Keys.KanjiMode,           // 0x19
            VK_ESCAPE               = Keys.Escape,              // 0x1B
            VK_CONVERT              = Keys.IMEConvert,          // 0x1C
            VK_NONCONVERT           = Keys.IMENonconvert,       // 0x1D
            VK_ACCEPT               = Keys.IMEAceept,           // 0x1E, Keys.IMEAccept
            VK_MODECHANGE           = Keys.IMEModeChange,       // 0x1F
            VK_SPACE                = Keys.Space,               // 0x20

Those the ones?

Rajagra · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 06:47:53 »

Quote from: DreymaR;130664

I think the deal with the JP IME keys is simply that they aren't defined in the keyboard layout! So while Windows gets the scan codes just fine it won't do anything with them.

I bought a Korean keyboard, and the scan codes of the extra keys do get through. I see them using Aqua's KeyTest. Unfortunately Korean boards *only* send an upcode at the moment you press those 2 keys, making them pretty useless as Autohotkey shifts.

ds26gte · « **Reply #26 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 08:46:48 »

Quote from: ch_123;130662

I was playing around with some silicone grease and an old Model M. What surprised me most was how the sound of the keyboard affects how you perceive the tactility. I had some greased keys which I could have sworn were much less tactile than the non-greased ones. Then I put on some headphones and turned up the volume and tried again. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't tell the difference between the greased and non-greased keys.

If I were to be cynical, I'd say the lack of noise is why a lot of BS and Alps diehards complain that they don't feel anything when typing on Cherry Browns or Topres...

Perhaps one can go further: Typists may actually prefer a cheapie keyboard with no tactile bump if the sound were added via software, over a silent but tactile board. Witness the popularity of programs that add "typewriter sounds". A word processor, Q10, profoundly minimal in other respects, makes a point of offering such sounds as a feature.

Maybe the sound is all you need. In which case, it is much cheaper to produce it via the computer's own sound resources instead of painstakingly engineering it into the keyboard. Plus, software-generated sound allows calibration to individual, mood, and environment. I can't believe any tactility felt by fingers against keys can compare, in either range or sensitivity, to the incredibly complex impact of sound on the human ear.

msiegel · « **Reply #27 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 12:10:45 »

Quote from: ds26gte;130676

Maybe the sound is all you need. In which case, it is much cheaper to produce it via the computer's own sound resources instead of painstakingly engineering it into the keyboard.

fascinating...

maybe someone would like to record a Model F keystroke, and try it out with a rubber dome / scissor board?

ch_123 · « **Reply #28 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 12:20:06 »

I've never heard a recording of either a Model M or Model F that actually sounds completely accurate. The above one is quite good though.

timw4mail · « **Reply #29 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 14:33:04 »

Quote from: ch_123;130713

I've never heard a recording of either a Model M or Model F that actually sounds completely accurate. The above one is quite good though.

Some of use have the most recent posts at the top...

Rajagra · « **Reply #30 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 14:54:06 »

Quote from: timw4mail;130730

Some of use have the most recent posts at the top...

Top poster!!!

I prefer keeping things in order and using the 'first new post' link to start me at the right place.
I failed to see that link for a looooooong time. :lol:

microsoft windows · « **Reply #31 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 15:00:19 »

You're not the only one who failed to see that link. I've never known what it does till now.

ch_123 · « **Reply #32 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 15:00:53 »

Quote from: timw4mail;130730

Some of use have the most recent posts at the top...

You should set up a support group for yourself...

Xero · « **Reply #33 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 17:07:31 »

hmm i have my IBM model M buckling spring silent touch, wonder If i should bust it out. It came pre-greased from IBM and actually has a speaker in that speaker grill on the bottom, I read somewhere it was for making clicky noises but I dunno...

ch_123 · « **Reply #34 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 17:15:24 »

Model Ms with speakers were intended for use with IBM's UNIX workstations (RS/6000 and related). I'm not entirely sure what the exact purpose of the speaker was though. As far as I know, only some of the really old terminal boards had the click speakers.

I wonder how greased the IBM ones were... How quiet is it?

Xero · « **Reply #35 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 17:20:53 »

its really quiet, barely makes a noise at all. It doesn't feel the same as a non-greased model M at all. The sticker in the top left corner says "IBM Soft Touch" so I guess that's the proper name for it.
edit: here's the exact one: http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/13192

I got mine off ebay for like 60 bucks, search for "Ibm soft touch",they come up once in a while. I had to replace 2 springs in it (which I was able to do without taking it apart luckily) and I basically borrowed grease from the other springs to quiet them up.

ch_123 · « **Reply #36 on:** Fri, 06 November 2009, 17:27:05 »

Yeah, there comes a point where if you grease it too much, you start to interfere with the operation of the spring. There is a nicer balance though where you get something that is much less pingy than a regular Model M, but still has most of the feeling. Obviously that wasn't IBM's priority with these machines.

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Author Topic: still love my 'silenced' endurapro (Read 6159 times)