ALPS wear?

[timw4mail]

I just got my AEKII in the mail, which is supposedly the same switches as the Dell AT101W, but "damped". The AT101W just feels so horrible in comparison. The AEKII almost feels like the switches are a heavier actuation Cherry brown switch.

How significant a factor is wear on the feel of ALPS switches? I got the Dell as "New in Box", and I got the AEKII used, but in good shape.

Or, do the damped ALPS just feel that much better because they are not bottoming out nearly as hard?

[ch_123]

Yeah, I once tried out an AEKII and an AT102W, both of which were horribly worn out. A worn out one feels little better than a rubber dome. What's odd is that the wear on the two boards was equal across all switches, so I think that there could be some aging problem as well.

[cmr]

With only a few exceptions, the old Alps keyboards I've tried have been disappointing to type on, needing lubrication to reduce friction within the switch lest they be uncomfortable to use. The new switches in my TP2 feel completely different. I also suspect that there is something aging within the plastic components of the switches.

[timw4mail]

I'm saying that the used keyboard feels better than the one I got "New in box". Are you saying that I need to lubricate the switches on my AT101W? And with what?

[itlnstln]

I think the damped Alps the AEKII has are a little different than the black Alps (I could be wrong).  That said, it could be that the use the AEKII got loosened the switches over time.  OTOH, I have heard that Alps seem to stiffen as they age/are used.  I have never used an Alps 'board long enough to say one way or the other.  All of my Alps 'boards have been NIB, and have felt similar in terms of stiffness and smoothness.  I did get 2 used Dells once, but they were stored improperly, and the switches were so dirty, that it was hard to tell what they should have felt like.  Those two were given away.

[wellington1869]

I just got my AEKII in the mail, which is supposedly the same switches as the Dell AT101W, but "damped". The AT101W just feels so horrible in comparison. The AEKII almost feels like the switches are a heavier actuation Cherry brown switch.

How significant a factor is wear on the feel of ALPS switches? I got the Dell as "New in Box", and I got the AEKII used, but in good shape.

Or, do the damped ALPS just feel that much better because they are not bottoming out nearly as hard?

check the serial number on back of the aekii you got. does it start with  M or A?
The M isnt regular alps, its a japanese alps. [edit: or not an alps at all, actually]. Its actually smoother than the A version's alps, and quieter and softer. but its parts arent interchangeable with other alps boards.

I too found aekii smoother than at101w, even a nib one. I think the sliders are different, maybe less wobble in them? hard to say cuz they're still interchangeable. I do find the aekII sliders smooth out *any* board they're put in. Thats One of the other reasons i like those dampered sliders (ie, in addition to softer landing and quieter stroke, i find theyre smoother too). So i chalk it up to those particular aek damped sliders.

[wellington1869]

I'm saying that the used keyboard feels better than the one I got "New in box". Are you saying that I need to lubricate the switches on my AT101W? And with what?

i did that to my at101w once, it does smooth it out just slightly, but not by much; i think pook did that too once and he thought the difference was negligible. in my case i put silicon grease on the slider, esp on the side where the tactile leaf makes contact with it.

cant put too much cuz like a piston the slider eventually 'ejects' most of the excess silicon grease out of the top of the switch, lol.

[itlnstln]

check the serial number on back of the aekii you got. does it start with M or A?
The M isnt regular alps, its a japanese alps. Its actually smoother than the A version's alps, and quieter and softer. but its parts arent interchangeable with other alps boards.

Were the Mitsumi switches made by Alps? Other than the interface, they look completely different. That said, the Mitsumi switches were nicer, IMO, than the Alps.

[AndrewZorn]

making me regret buying the dell i just got done paying for
AEKIIs seem about as cheap on ebay

[wellington1869]

Were the Mitsumi switches made by Alps? Other than the interface, they look completely different. That said, the Mitsumi switches were nicer, IMO, than the Alps.

ya i think they're nicer too, lol.
I dont know if they're made by alps, maybe theres no relation to alps at all except that both types of switches happened to appear on two versions of the aekii?

[wellington1869]

making me regret buying the dell i just got done paying for
AEKIIs seem about as cheap on ebay

youd have to get an adb-usb adapter tho (another 30 bucks or more) to use the aekii

[timw4mail]

My serial number starts with an A, so maybe I'm just crazier than normal. Once I get my iMate, I might just use the AEKII as my main board. It's very quiet, and very comfortable.

[timw4mail]

youd have to get an adb-usb adapter tho (another 30 bucks or more) to use the aekii

From what I've seen, it's closer to $50.

[itlnstln]

ya i think they're nicer too, lol.
I dont know if they're made by alps, maybe theres no relation to alps at all except that both types of switches happened to appear on two versions of the aekii?

I'm pretty sure Mitsumi made their own switches.  I think Apple may have used one or the other based on availablilty.

[wellington1869]

I'm pretty sure Mitsumi made their own switches.  I think Apple may have used one or the other based on availablilty.

which brings up the question: are there any other mitsumi-based boards out there? THey're really quite fine switches!  And technically they ARE mechanical (not rubber dome). I'm surprised at how little attention we've paid them so far.

[AndrewZorn]

From what I've seen, it's closer to $50.

nevermind then, awesome

[timw4mail]

which brings up the question: are there any other mitsumi-based boards out there? THey're really quite fine switches!  And technically they ARE mechanical (not rubber dome). I'm surprised at how little attention we've paid them so far.

They seem to be rather rare, or clones of other switch types, though.

ALPS, Cherry, and Buckling spring switches are all very common.

You don't hear much about SMK or Mitsumi switches, presumably because they are rarer. Apple's always been pretty close with Mitsumi, perhaps those switches were custom orders for Apple?

[wellington1869]

They seem to be rather rare, or clones of other switch types, though.

ALPS, Cherry, and Buckling spring switches are all very common.

You don't hear much about SMK or Mitsumi switches, presumably because they are rarer. Apple's always been pretty close with Mitsumi, perhaps those switches were custom orders for Apple?

maybe there on japanese keyboards or something.  I'd definitely be interested if mitsumis show up on a normal contemporary usb keyboard.

[wellington1869]

here's mitsumi's keyboard key switch product page
http://www.mitsumi.co.jp/Catalog/indexuse/pc/switch_e.html

update, sorry, spoke too soon. its just diff types of buttons and switches. I got excited when i saw one called 'tactile switch' or something.

I dont see the aek mitsumis in that list, so maybe they just dont make it anymore.

[timw4mail]

Here's a list of the ones they make now:
http://www.mitsumi.co.jp/Catalog/compo/switch/index_e.html

No keyboard switches in sight.

[wellington1869]

No keyboard switches in sight.

thats a pity

I'll perform some google-fu and see if I can find any older boards still avail on ebay

[ch_123]

I've modded an AT101W with the switches and keycaps of an AEK II. I had thought that the AEK was really mushy when I first tried, but I actually find it really pleasant to type on now. Funnily enough, the keycaps make almost as big a difference to the feel as the dampeners do.

Moral of the story - Alps switches are pretty good. It's just that Dell manages to screw up everything they touch.

[keyb_gr]

Moral of the story - Alps switches are pretty good. It's just that Dell manages to screw up everything they touch.

Now that's a bit harsh, isn't it? The AT101W came along a good bit after the AEKII after all, IOW it can be expected to be built to a lower price point. The old AT101 with its pink switches might be a more worthy opponent.

But true, it's really kind of a shame that a board as solidly built as the Dell isn't any nicer to type on stock. My AT102DW didn't work any better for me than a Cherry G81 (hardly a revelation to begin with but actually quite dependable), the friction and hard landing totally kill it.

[ch_123]

That's probably true. The old SGI AT101s were also meant to be a good deal better built than the later Dells.

The Cream Alps are interesting. They are much quieter and have an almost mushy feel compared with the hard clack of the Black Alps. If I were to be harsh (again) about them, I'd say that they feel like rubber domes on steroids. Topre comparisons anyone? =P

[microsoft windows]

Personally, I find many rubber dome keyboards to be perfectly fine for typing on. It's only the low-quality ones like the newer Apples and Dells that I hate. Take the Dell Quiet-Key for example. It's a high-quality keyboard that can last virtually forever. It has sliders between the keys and rubber domes and the back is reinforced with a steel plate. How is that a low quality product?

[ch_123]

As far as I am concerned, Black and Cream Alps are about a step up from a good rubber dome and no more. I agree that I can live on a decent rubber dome, but nothing beats typing on Buckling Springs or Cherrys (possibly the clicky Alps too, have yet to try them)

[hyperlinked]

How significant a factor is wear on the feel of ALPS switches? I got the Dell as "New in Box", and I got the AEKII used, but in good shape.

My favorite board of the past was a black ALPS board that I completely wore out gaming and typing. I finally had to give it up because I ran out of donor keys and occasionally it was a real pain in the ass that none of my function keys worked anymore as those were the ones I transplanted with my broken switches.

The keyboard was a MicroConnectors board and it seemed to age just fine to me. I had that board for several years of very heavy use. I eventually bought a replacement for it, but I never felt as comfortable on the replacement as I did on the original.

When I learned about the world famous Ripometer tool, I pulled my gimpy old favorite and its failed replacements and tested them. I don't remember the actuation weights, but the old board was actually easier to actuate. I don't know whether it was the result of wear or if I had some mutant variant of black ALPS switches in that particular board.

So contrary to cmr's experiences, my ALPS board didn't stiffen.

[ch_123]

I find that they get rather mushy though. You'd be better off with Cherry Browns if you wanted something lighter.

[ch_123]

When you did that test with the Alps, did you use the same keycaps? Those Dell keycaps are a prime example of how a bad keycap can screw with a keyswitch...

[ch_123]

I wonder if the White/Blue switches are as bad as the black ones for wear and tear.

[itlnstln]

Welly and I bought a couple of used Dells that were not stored all that well, and we both noticed the same friction. All the NIB ones I have had have been smoother and more pleasant to type on. ALPS might be a nice switch, but their fundamental design doesn't allow them to "age gracefully."

[ch_123]

I got one of those NIB ones as well. I think I'd prefer some wear to take the stiffness out of them, but the ones that are really worn are atrocious.

[itlnstln]

My Northgate hit the sweet spot after about a couple of months of use.  A little use does help in "speeding up" the switches.  They are a little stiff when brand new.