Author Topic: Who the heck uses right Alt and Ctrl (Read 19771 times)

DreymaR · « **Reply #50 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 02:23:57 »

Quote from: AndrewZorn;127243

çółémák ȟä§ ít

While I'm a huge fan of Colemak in general, the AltGr mappings seem ... unfinished. I've been working on something better (for me) for years, and it's a huge bloated layout but man can you type some glyphs on that motha!

Meanwhile, I'm using the VK_102 key and the AltGr positions of [ and ] for national characters. I think that most accents should be on dead keys, and I'm looking to the intuitive way it's done in Linux (e.g., the :; key with AltGr will be a dead key for diaeresis and the "' key with AltGr does the acute accent etc). There will also, like in Colemak be special dead keys for certain symbols; I'm planning to cram a workable IPA into it - if you're not one of the IPA specialists who need symbols for drunken speech and suchlike, that is - as well as greek/kyrillic and hopefully hebrew scripts. Linguists should love it... I hope. And the '5 scripts' idea might finally get implemented.

But not yet.

DreymaR · « **Reply #51 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 02:26:17 »

Quote from: Rajagra;127240

I think you'll find that vanilla US layout is about the only one that doesn't use it.

I like vanilla ice cream, but vanilla US... ewww!!!

kode · « **Reply #52 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 02:37:48 »

Quote from: d2v;127196

Xah Lee has been posting on the Emacs mailing lists for years. He is also pushing for Common User Access (CUA) controls (Ctrl-X, C, V) to be default.
I was using caps lock as ctrl until I read his article.

Yes, the pinky has to do all the heavy lifting in pressing the modifier keys, resulting in sore pinky problem. (Emacs is famous for this, and this issue frequently comes up in Emacs vs. Vi flamewars. )

I suppose the humble hacker keyboard layout gets it right. It puts the modifier keys between left and right hand keys, to be actuated by index finger.

Xah is also pretty famous for being a usenet troll, so I more or less take anything said by him (and most others) with a grain of salt. Personally I like my ctrl on the homerow. I actually did more than swapping, I just made caps another ctrl. Much like I'm not missing the swap partition, I don't miss the caps lock. I guess the right ctrl sees some underuse for most emacs commands, but I do use it for cut/copy/paste stuff almost daily.

Mercen_505 · « **Reply #53 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 10:26:03 »

Late to the party, as always. Outside of gaming, I rarely if ever find myself using the right set of CTRL/ALT keys. In games, I tend to map them to frequently-used actions such as crouching or lobbing a grenade, as I'm left handed and still fondle the arrow keys as opposed to WASD.

hyperlinked · « **Reply #54 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 11:42:00 »

The right alt and ctrl buttons are EXTREMELY important.

You know how you often get an extra button sewn into a button shirt in case you need to make button repairs? The right alt and ctrl keys are like those. They're the first switch to get pulled when an emergency donor is needed.

itlnstln · « **Reply #55 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 11:50:40 »

Quote from: hyperlinked;127385

The right alt and ctrl buttons are EXTREMELY important.

You know how you often get an extra button sewn into a button shirt in case you need to make button repairs? The right alt and ctrl keys are like those. They're the first switch to get pulled when an emergency donor is needed.

Strong. Those and Pause/Break or Scroll Lock, especially Scroll Lock. The right Shift is a good donor, too. I don't think I have ever used the right Shift. Well, except for some test in the NKRO thread, but other than that, never.

msiegel · « **Reply #56 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 12:05:15 »

Quote from: hyperlinked;127385

The right alt and ctrl buttons are EXTREMELY important.

You know how you often get an extra button sewn into a button shirt in case you need to make button repairs? The right alt and ctrl keys are like those. They're the first switch to get pulled when an emergency donor is needed.

:lol:

timw4mail · « **Reply #57 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 12:20:24 »

Quote from: hyperlinked;127385

The right alt and ctrl buttons are EXTREMELY important.

You know how you often get an extra button sewn into a button shirt in case you need to make button repairs? The right alt and ctrl keys are like those. They're the first switch to get pulled when an emergency donor is needed.

So that's where I'm going to find another switch to swap in my NEC keyboard...thanks

ehird · « **Reply #58 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 13:31:10 »

Quote from: kode;127335

Xah is also pretty famous for being a usenet troll, so I more or less take anything said by him (and most others) with a grain of salt. Personally I like my ctrl on the homerow. I actually did more than swapping, I just made caps another ctrl. Much like I'm not missing the swap partition, I don't miss the caps lock. I guess the right ctrl sees some underuse for most emacs commands, but I do use it for cut/copy/paste stuff almost daily.

Xah is a total loon, but the arguments he makes in that article appear sound.

Kraicheck · « **Reply #59 on:** Thu, 22 October 2009, 10:52:15 »

I use the right Ctrl all the time in firefox:
Ctrl+Tab - switch between tabs
Ctrl+W - close tab (this is becoming a standard for all tab related programs)
Ctrl+t - new tab

I did remap the windows-keys to Ctrl.

@Ironcoder: please stop with the "winbloze", its childish.

msiegel · « **Reply #60 on:** Thu, 22 October 2009, 11:10:39 »

Quote from: Kraicheck;127601

I use the right Ctrl all the time in firefox:
Ctrl+Tab - switch between tabs
Ctrl+W - close tab (this is becoming a standard for all tab related programs)
Ctrl+t - new tab

i'm a little surprised how many people *are* using the right Ctrl and Alt. are you left-handed, by any chance?

Quote from: Kraicheck;127601

@Ironcoder: please stop with the "winbloze", its childish.

mainframe programmers in a bunker. what are you gonna do XD

ironcoder · « **Reply #61 on:** Thu, 22 October 2009, 11:35:21 »

Quote from: Kraicheck;127601

@Ironcoder: please stop with the "winbloze", its childish.

No, but thanks for asking.

"I don't need a weatherman to know which way the Winbloze...."

ironcoder · « **Reply #62 on:** Thu, 22 October 2009, 11:35:59 »

Quote from: msiegel;127604

mainframe programmers in a bunker. what are you gonna do XD

Another great line :high5:

Ulysses31 · « **Reply #63 on:** Thu, 22 October 2009, 13:02:30 »

I use right CTRL+PgUP/PgDn for moving through tabs, as well as the usual left CTRL+TAB (or CTRL+SHIFT+TAB) to go backwards.

Kraicheck · « **Reply #64 on:** Fri, 23 October 2009, 04:41:12 »

Quote from: msiegel;127604

i'm a little surprised how many people *are* using the right Ctrl and Alt.

For me, the right Ctrl is a recent development. I got annoyed with the disruptive nature of using the mouse when programming, so I started using a lot more keyboard-shortcuts and HHKB-like scripts to keep my hands on the home row. This in turn let to a more "purist" view of using the keyboard as it's supposed to be used; modifiers with one hand, actual keys with the other. Right now I have to bare the fact that I don't have a real right Alt, so some combinations I'm still forced to do single-handed. It's annoying but I really need that AltGr.

Quote from: msiegel;127604

are you left-handed, by any chance?

Yes, I am

. I do normally mouse with my right hand so that's not the reason why I use the right Ctrl

.

roaduck · « **Reply #65 on:** Fri, 23 October 2009, 12:42:01 »

Quote from: Kraicheck;127765

For me, the right Ctrl is a recent development. I got annoyed with the disruptive nature of using the mouse when programming, so I started using a lot more keyboard-shortcuts and HHKB-like scripts to keep my hands on the home row. This in turn let to a more "purist" view of using the keyboard as it's supposed to be used; modifiers with one hand, actual keys with the other. Right now I have to bare the fact that I don't have a real right Alt, so some combinations I'm still forced to do single-handed. It's annoying but I really need that AltGr.

Yes, I am . I do normally mouse with my right hand so that's not the reason why I use the right Ctrl .

I don't think I've ever used the Alt and Ctrl on the right and I've only just discovered keyboard shortcuts.Plus my friends think I'm strange because I put the mouse on the left even though I'm right-handed - I did it to force me to become more ambidextrous and it has helped enormously plus driving left-hand drive manual geared Mercs in France really chucked me in the deep end.

cmr · « **Reply #66 on:** Wed, 28 October 2009, 22:14:31 »

i basically only use right shift. for whatever reason i use alt and ctrl on both sides though.

watduzhkstand4 · « **Reply #67 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 00:10:10 »

I use the right ctrl + P to print stuff =P

watduzhkstand4 · « **Reply #68 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 00:16:52 »

Quote from: ripster;128970

Wats up Wat. Haven't seen you in a while.

hey ripters
sorry I've been very busy with school since the the first day it started. I only have classes three days a week but I still go to that hellhole every working day. How have you been? I always stop by whenever I have time to spy

It doesn't seem like anything new is coming out is there?

watduzhkstand4 · « **Reply #69 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 00:22:17 »

Quote from: ripster;128973

Nah, not much happening - still no Blue Cherry Filcos so at least be glad you got yours. When the Das S ships we'll probably beat up on it for a while.

oh I love my blue cherry no doubt about that. So Das S is the new thing? I gotta catch up on that lol

watduzhkstand4 · « **Reply #70 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 00:32:06 »

Quote from: ripster;128976

Wait until it ships. I'm sure something will be off about it. I have a gut feeling that if anybody can mess up Multimedia keys Metadot can.

Stupid they didn't ship a Tenkeyless version. They coulda claimed, "LOOK - We invented the Tenkeyless Form Factor!!" and gotten just as much press as the Blank key version.

I agree with you with the whole tenkeyless idea. I don't understand why nobody wants to make tenkeyless =/

timw4mail · « **Reply #71 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 07:11:11 »

Quote from: watduzhkstand4;128980

I agree with you with the whole tenkeyless idea. I don't understand why nobody wants to make tenkeyless =/

And I still don't really understand the overwhelming need for tenkeyless...but to each his own.

itlnstln · « **Reply #72 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 08:30:00 »

I like keyboards with smaller form-factors, so I can see the appeal in Tenkeyless versions of keyboards. Where the Filco fails, IMO, is that there is no virtual numpad like the Topres and IBM Space Savers.

ds26gte · « **Reply #73 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 08:34:33 »

Quote from: timw4mail;129016

And I still don't really understand the overwhelming need for tenkeyless...but to each his own.

A tenkeyless without an embedded numpad is crippled in my book. A keyboard should have the ability to simulate a pointing (and clicking) device, even if the user prefers to use an actual mouse or trackball for the latter's convenience.

Is there a Mouse Keys-like program that can be used on keyboards without a real or embedded numpad, i.e., by using other keys or keychords? I've searched around a bit, and these doesn't seem to be such an animal.

ironcoder · « **Reply #74 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 08:36:18 »

Quote from: timw4mail;129016

And I still don't really understand the overwhelming need for tenkeyless...but to each his own.

I felt the same way until I got my first 10keyless. I didn't use the numpad almost all, except for the end key. If you use multiple keyboards on one desk or table the smaller keyboard starts to really help. Unless you're using a really huge desk!

GGLucas · « **Reply #75 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 08:40:51 »

itlnstln · « **Reply #76 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 08:45:24 »

Welcome to Geekhack, GGLucas!

We need more representation from the Netherlands. I'm sure you'll fit right in with Webwit.

GGLucas · « **Reply #77 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 08:51:50 »

sggsix · « **Reply #78 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 08:59:01 »

I use the left alt/ctrl a lot more than the right alt/ctrl myself. But, I mainly use my computer for gaming, and typing papers for school. I am not a programmer.

itlnstln · « **Reply #79 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 09:00:54 »

Quote from: GGLucas;129049

Hi! Geekhack has been a great resource for me in trying to find a good first mechanical keyboard (settled on a filco with blue cherries, waiting for it to arrive). Being in Europe is not very kind to your wallet though ( $50 shipping =\ )

That VAT is a killer. From time-to-time, I would buy and ship items from here in the US to another member living in the UK to ensure value was accurately reported for VAT purposes.

microsoft windows · « **Reply #80 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 09:39:55 »

If I had to pay $50 for shipping for a nice keyboard, I just wouldn't buy it.

itlnstln · « **Reply #81 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 09:44:02 »

I wouldn't live in Europe, then. High shipping seems to be the norm when you include VAT.

DreymaR · « **Reply #82 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 09:59:37 »

Quote from: ds26gte;129040

Is there a Mouse Keys-like program that can be used on keyboards without a real or embedded numpad, i.e., by using other keys or keychords? I've searched around a bit, and these doesn't seem to be such an animal.

I use the 'unreal' operating system and simulate the simplest mousing in PortableKeyboardLayout's 'extend' mode. In the future, I hope to get multiple 'extend' states so I can implement mousing with different speed multipliers which is key to happy keyboard mousing. For now, it's handy for getting the pointer out of the way or up/down explorer lists. Keyboard autorepeat can be a ***** when key-mousing though.

There are other AutoHotkey implementations of mouse keys, I think. But maybe they all used the NumPad; don't recall. Wouldn't be too hard to tweak that in their source code, but with PKL I'd just use that instead.

texteur · « **Reply #83 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 10:15:59 »

Quote from: itlnstln;129080

I wouldn't live in Europe, then. High shipping seems to be the norm when you include VAT.

I live in Switzerland. If I buy a Filco from Elite Keyboards, it costs me $50 for shipping and 30-40$ for customs taxes. The same with Model Ms bought on eBay. That sucks, for sure...

itlnstln · « **Reply #84 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 10:36:25 »

Quote from: ripster;129091

Universal Health Care or $50 shipping/VAT. Hmm...... tough decision.

Good thing the coffee and beer has improved here.

Oh, that wasn't a decision posed for me. I would much rather enjoy my European beer at the brewery.

itlnstln · « **Reply #85 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 10:44:42 »

I really like a lot of the American micro brews. I do find, though, that American brewers love their hops. Because of this, I don't drink many American beers during the warmer months here as I don't find hoppy beers particularly "refreshing." Now that it's getting a little cooler, it might be time to pick up a 6 of Sierra Nevada or Anchor Steam.

itlnstln · « **Reply #86 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 10:57:05 »

Look, it's better than the Bud Light everybody drinks here.

I still think beers from the UK and Ireland are the best.

itlnstln · « **Reply #87 on:** Thu, 29 October 2009, 11:21:55 »

Nobody drinks that in TX. Bud Light is the national beer of Texas. We have a couple of stores in our chain that have 95% of the beer section as BL and a couple of facings each of regular Bud and Miller Light. Most of our stores have a fairly vast beer selection, especially in Austin.

This is the only true Budweiser:

News:

Author Topic: Who the heck uses right Alt and Ctrl (Read 19771 times)