Author Topic: Cherry Keycaps  (Read 11992 times)

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Offline chongyixiong

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Cherry Keycaps
« on: Sat, 12 September 2009, 22:09:56 »
Double Shot?
POM?
PBT?

It's all  here, under one roof if you want to get them from this China supplier..
Has a range of other stuff like a keycap puller and tons of Cherry keyswitches.

I was just wondering since I couldn't find any threads where people have bought a bag of keycaps from Cherry Corp themselves.. so please enlighten me if you are able to.. since Malaysia is much closer to China as well, so it would be much simpler to just order from there.

Looks like the official dealer of Cherry related stuff in China.. price seems just about alright, was thinking of ordering a set for my Filco's.. those double-shot keys seem pretty nice.. my Filco's (blank keys) are starting to bald and shine.

According to the descriptions, the black blanks are POM material while the white blanks are PBT material?
Any significant difference between these 2?

BTW, these are advertised to be fully compatible with the Cherry G80 series, so maybe some of the stabilisers might not work I guess, for the FILCO?

Thanks in advance.

Here are the links:
Double-shot goodness 460 yuan = USD$67
Shining White 180 yuan = USD$26
Cool Black 220 yuan = USD$32

Are these prices fair?
« Last Edit: Sat, 12 September 2009, 22:16:11 by chongyixiong »

Offline chongyixiong

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 12 September 2009, 23:08:13 »
Quote from: ripster;117385
If you're in Malaysia why not just order some and report back?  They should work on the Filcos except the Caps Lock key and maybe the front row.


Liasing with the seller, just discovered the website today.
However, seeing your anti-double shot otaku Filco, I couldn't stop wondering how different the fonts looked.. it's different right?

Also, I am considering between the POM and PBT.. any differences in the feel?
For now, I kinda like the smooth feel of the blank keycaps.. but I have tried out the surface texture of the HHKB Pro 2 and I really like that as well, a well ingrained texture really gives the extra 'oomph', LOL.

Offline phoenix

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 13 September 2009, 00:16:34 »
A quick and not quite exact translation of the description, if you can't read Chinese:

After much negotiation, we have obtained the rights to sell full sets of POM keycaps from Cherry. We are unable to sell individual keycaps, because:

1. Cherry G80 series have 6 rows of keys, each with a different angle, shape and label. With special keys like Enter and Shift, keycaps come with large variations depending on key location, color and material. It is very difficult to offer custom keycaps considering the price and minimum order.

2. PBT (white) and POM (black) keycaps are laser etched. Cherry's factories in Germany and Eastern Europe produce keyboards on unmanned production lines. The blank keycaps are first placed onto keyboards and then etched together. If you need a keycap, it will have to be pulled from a keyboard by a worker. Considering the extremely high labor cost in Germany, the cost of getting an individual keycap would be astronomical. That's why Cherry sent me an entire keyboard when I asked for replacement for a broken keycap.

3. Most enthusiasts won't buy all 104/105 ketcaps at a time (it wouldn't actually be worth it. You can almost buy another keyboard with that money), and just buy for example the WASD keys. In the end I may end up with lots of unpopular keycaps like Delete or Numlock in my warehouse.

So, we only accept orders for full sets. They will fit the G80-3000 series perfectly.

Offline Hak Foo

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 13 September 2009, 00:47:01 »
:drool:  They have the G80-3000LSCEU, which is sort of funny.  Shouldn't the Chinese, of all people, get the keyboards with the Chinese lettering?

Still, I'm surprised at the high price (730 yuan) considering it sells for about $65 when you can get it in the US.
Overton130, Box Pale Blues.

Offline lowpoly

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 13 September 2009, 03:21:25 »
The EU version is the ANSI version with horizontal enter. Bad name.

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Offline Bebop

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 27 October 2009, 10:22:37 »
Quote
"So, we only accept orders for full sets. They will fit the G80-3000 series perfectly."


Does anyone know whether they can supply a full set of French AZERTY layout keycaps, prefeably the double shots? Failing that I could contemplate a complete 105 key blue switched G80-3000 in AZERTY if the price/shipping was reasonable?

Cherry blue/brown switch keyboards are currently unavailable in France; you have to buy a 105 key German or British G80-3000  and change all the keys. I have two of the available black switched versions but I also want a blue one...

Offline Bebop

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 27 October 2009, 10:47:33 »
Quote
Welcome to Geekhack.

I doubt that a Chinese retailer will have French keys
.


Thanks for the welcome - its a good forum from what I've seen.

I have not found a single retailer in any country with French keycap connections, even in France, and only one secondhand AZERTY G80 on eBay at around €50.

Ah well.

Offline itlnstln

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 27 October 2009, 10:49:21 »
It might be a good time to go with blank caps.  You can get them from Elitekeyboards.com, but you will have to deal with VAT, etc.


Offline Bebop

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 27 October 2009, 11:02:59 »
Sorry, I am not nearly good enough to go down that road for the time being. My only clicky alternative (to waiting for something to turn up on eBay) is a customiser 105. I am still hesitating because of the potentiel noise pollution, even though I like the board.

Offline Bebop

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 27 October 2009, 11:26:33 »
Quote
Well, this is US Ebay but this Customizer went for $36 - not a bad deal IMHO.


Yep a good price. I suppose there have to be some advantages in Qwertyland, LOL !

I might just pull the trigger at pckeyboard.com - they deserve some business I suppose  even if it is just for offering foreign keyboard layouts when everyone else is maxing out their profits and cutting back on service.

Offline itlnstln

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 27 October 2009, 11:38:16 »
While not particularly innovative, Unicomp are some good folks.  You be doing them well by getting a 'board from them.


Offline Bebop

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 27 October 2009, 11:49:15 »
Yes, it seems that the lack of options on the Cherry front is leading me this way...

Offline Bebop

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 28 October 2009, 09:18:21 »
My problem has made me think, so here's to anyone in the industry that's listening:

Most quality mechanical keyboards use Cherry MX switches as do Cherry themselves of course and with good reason - they are great switches! There can be no shortage of tooling capacity or problems with economies of scale when it comes to manufacturing keycap kits in various layouts for switches that many different manufacturers use. The cost of carrying different boxes of plastic keys is insignificant when compared to the cost of carrying complete keyboards in different layouts.

The major problem appears to stem from the commonly accepted vision of an easy to market US 104 key layout as opposed to a difficult or expensive to market series of language defined 105 key layouts. This need not be the case. As far as I am aware, keyboard layouts that are: Austrian, British, Bosnian, Canadian, Croatian, Dutch, Faroese, Finnish, Greek, German, Hungarian, Irish, Italian, Korean, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese (Brazil and Portugal), Romanian, Russian, Slovene, Spanish, Swedish, Swiss...(etc.) all use the SAME physical 105 key layouts. Only the caps need to change. This is a HUGE market. The same boards could be sold cap-less to everyone, with the cap kit left to final customer choice. You could even have deluxe double shot cap kits, coloured cap kits, etc., etc.

The vision of a keyboard as something defined, packaged, distributed and sold according to the language-defined layout appears to be an illusion that is transforming a business and a customer service opportunity into a problem! Merely two boards appear to cover nearly all the world's needs, 104 and 105 key. The rest is "keycaps"!

Acquiring a different layout on a 105 or 104 touch keyboard should not involve a costly and expensive production run, just a change of readily available caps!

Of course it may also be that there are just too few enthusiasts and quality seekers to make any effort wothwhile for a keyboard manfacturer... but I would find this hard to believe.

Offline timw4mail

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 28 October 2009, 09:30:51 »
Quote from: webwit;128764
There is not a lot of choice. The quality switch industry died, and all there is left is Cherry and some of the Alps heritage, while Unicomp cornered the BS market.


Well, not that there were that many companies with buckling spring mechanism to begin with...

It is unfortunately true that the mechanical keyswitch industry is pretty much dead. SMK and NEC both had some interesting switches, that you have to find a keyboard with the switches in order to try them, and it's virtually impossible to find them new.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline Bebop

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 28 October 2009, 10:01:09 »
What I'm saying is that with just two boards based on Cherry MX switches, a 104 US and a 105 "international" and readily available keycap kits to suit the different language options a manufacturer can cover just about eveyone's needs for a quality mechanical keyboard.

For the moment it is impossible to get hold of a FILCO, a Das Keyboard, a Deck Keyboard etc. in anything other than QWERTY US 104. The 105 "international" layouts appear to be a missed oportunity simply because of a keycap language problem.

Maybe things will change as the global market for quality mechanical boards continues to grow.

Offline timw4mail

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 28 October 2009, 10:13:51 »
Quote from: Bebop;128773
What I'm saying is that with just two boards based on Cherry MX switches, a 104 US and a 105 "international" and readily available keycap kits to suit the different language options a manufacturer can cover just about eveyone's needs for a quality mechanical keyboard.

For the moment it is impossible to get hold of a FILCO, a Das Keyboard, a Deck Keyboard etc. in anything other than QWERTY US 104. The 105 "international" layouts appear to be a missed oportunity simply because of a keycap language problem.

Maybe things will change as the global market for quality mechanical boards continues to grow.


You forget that Japanese tends to have more keys as well. 106 or 108, I think.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline Bebop

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 28 October 2009, 10:30:42 »
Quote
You forget that Japanese tends to have more keys as well. 106 or 107, I think

According to Wikipedia:

"JIS layout, with Japanese kana in addition to a QWERTY style layout...[...]...The extra keys in the bottom row, and the changed keys in the leftmost column, control various aspects of the conversion process and select different modes of input."

So correct, there are extra keys on the bottom but hey, they already have Diatec FILCO, PFU Happy Hacking and Topre Realforce as home players anyway.

However none of these can be found in non-English 105 as far as I'm aware.

Offline Bebop

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 28 October 2009, 10:41:51 »
Quote
Wish the OP would report back. This is turning into a typical moanfest

I agree, would like to know if he has any more information....like you, I don't read Chinese either.

Offline chongyixiong

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 02:08:02 »
Quote from: Bebop;128784
I agree, would like to know if he has any more information....like you, I don't read Chinese either.

Quote from: ripster;128779
Wish the OP would report back.  This is turning into a typical moanfest.

Sorry, I was, and am still currently pretty busy for exams lately, but I'd get about ordering those once my examinations are over on 16th November.

Actually, I have already sent them an e-mail but to date they have not replied.

What are the 'information' that my fellow Geekhackers seek?

Quote from: ripster;128566
Anybody try ordering these yet?  Eyeballing them they look fully Filco compatible except for the offcenter capslock.  $67 for doubleshots.  I'd order but can't read Chinese.
With regards to the question above, it is written that they are entirely fully compatible with the Cherry G80-3000 series.
I'm guessing this is the US ANSI Layout from the pictures but they have not replied.

On the compatibility, I think Ripster did post a link sometime back on someone who transplanted the Cherry G80 keys onto his/her Filco.
Most of the keys transplanted successfully except the Shift and Enter due to the stabilizer's placement IINM.
« Last Edit: Sun, 01 November 2009, 02:12:14 by chongyixiong »

Offline lowpoly

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 13:06:24 »
Quote from: webwit;129694
These Chinese guys, they ordered in bulk from Cherry Germany.

Do you have more information here?

Quote from: webwit;129694
Can't one of the German members here give Cherry a call and claim to be a company looking for such bulks, to sniff out the options and pricing?

I tried, even confirmed that I still wanted it but never got an answer. I didn't press it though as I won't be buying anytime soon.

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Offline sixty

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 13:13:26 »
I had written these Chinese guys two months ago in proper Chinese (with the help of a friend) and asked if they would be shipping international too. Up to this day I have no received an answer. I guess its a closed business.

Regarding Cherry: When I was in contact with Cherry a while ago they told me that the keys are made somewhere different and that the boards arrive fully assembled and get lasered after that. They also told me that for that very reason they can not send out replacement keys as a service and will instead send a full replacement keyboard.

Bad luck, I guess.

Offline MsKeyboard

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 14:11:40 »
Placing the characters on the key once the keyboard is assembled is becoming a standard practice.  Also, some shipping restrictions (tariffs) make it difficult to get keyboard parts, whereas a complete keyboard is less of an issue.

Later.......

Offline Bebop

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Cherry Keycaps
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 04 November 2009, 12:51:40 »
Quote
Regarding Cherry: When I was in contact with Cherry a while ago they told me that the keys are made somewhere different and that the boards arrive fully assembled and get lasered after that. They also told me that for that very reason they can not send out replacement keys as a service and will instead send a full replacement keyboard.

Quote
Placing the characters on the key once the keyboard is assembled is becoming a standard practice. Also, some shipping restrictions (tariffs) make it difficult to get keyboard parts, whereas a complete keyboard is less of an issue.

All this might explain why I have no replies from Cherry in Europe regarding a set of AZERTY keys. This manufacturing based marketing strategy is ineffective for specialist markets where choice and/or service is an important criterium. It means for instance that I will not be buying any more of their keyboards in the future, unless they market a blue or brown switched G80-3000 in AZERTY (unlikely).
On the other hand I am eagerly awaiting delivery (tomorrow) of four IBM Model M's (1391402) in AZERTY which will probably mean that I can sit on the fence for a while and watch; after putting the black switched Cherries back in their box...
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 November 2009, 15:09:20 by Bebop »