Author Topic: Gold & metal keycap and metal slider  (Read 5614 times)

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Offline overdriver

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« on: Mon, 09 November 2009, 15:02:14 »
I am not sure if you guys already introduced these projects or not..

http://www.otd.kr has some exotic mod: Gold keycap, metal keycap and metal slider. It looks like cherry switch based.

enjoy this possibility:

Gold Keycap







according to this expert modder, it is made of 55% pure gold, 5% white gold, 20% silver, and rest are bronze, etc.

total weight is 10.9g (original plastic one was 0.3g)

He named it as 'Absolute keycap' in Korean. (l assume it is named after LoR)


and metal keycaps:



















He said that it took about 2.3 hours per keycaps to make

and his latest project, metal slider for Cherry Black











I think he sells it only to his board members. I cannot find any price tag in any of his board. ah.. yeah I speak Korean and English is my second language. :)
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Offline sixty

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 09 November 2009, 15:06:06 »
Yeah, I had seen these before.. its some great stuff. I heard its done with dentist materials to get the silicone molds. I'm still trying to get a proper account over at ODT, but so far Sad Nova did not get back to me yet.

I really wonder how the metal plunger Cherry MX feels to type on.

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #2 on: Mon, 09 November 2009, 15:46:01 »
Quote from: webwit;131349
Previous       month you will carry and will be pulverized and that time it related the       inside the threesome which gets twisted will make carry and to get that it       gets think?


What?
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Offline ch_123

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 09 November 2009, 15:46:08 »
Sounds like a fun day.

Offline JBert

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 09 November 2009, 16:15:45 »
Quote from: timw4mail;131354
What?
Exactly.
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Offline sixty

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« Reply #5 on: Mon, 09 November 2009, 16:29:27 »
I told him, model m, the keyboard, which means almost all my time.

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Offline AndrewZorn

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 09 November 2009, 16:52:18 »
about time on the metal keycaps.  the 2.3hrs each thing i think is surely exaggeration, or at least, he isn't mentioning that he can do 50 at once in the 2.3hr period.

Offline sixty

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« Reply #7 on: Mon, 09 November 2009, 17:53:07 »
Quote from: AndrewZorn;131377
about time on the metal keycaps.  the 2.3hrs each thing i think is surely exaggeration, or at least, he isn't mentioning that he can do 50 at once in the 2.3hr period.


The way they are done now is one-by-one. His mold is for one key at a time from what I can tell.

Offline AndrewZorn

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 09 November 2009, 18:36:45 »
Quote from: webwit;131389
How would this feel? And a 55g key becomes a 44g key?
i cant imagine it doing anything else
and im not being sarcastic, there seems to be a lot of subjective opinion about key feel, but i dont think weight does anything but change the force

mind as well reveal one of my secret projects
the idea was to fill the empty space of the key with something, like solder
to increase the key weight / decrease actuation force
so existing keys could be modded
EDIT but looking at the pictures now it looks like the keycaps require the whole hollowed-out section

im just saying there must be a way to combine/save time on those keys
really though how long until an aluminum case and keys are not $400 + 2.3hrs*87
« Last Edit: Mon, 09 November 2009, 18:40:58 by AndrewZorn »

Offline AndrewZorn

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 09 November 2009, 19:26:03 »
well yeah the first 11g of it

Offline ricercar

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 09 November 2009, 23:47:47 »
Quote from: ripster;131374
Show Image


WTF? Holy tsunami, Batman. Looks like Ripster can supply us all with keycaps.

You may have a Bosendorfer Escape key, my CHEF SALAD key takes the cake!



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Offline msiegel

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 10 November 2009, 00:07:25 »
Quote from: ricercar;131432
Show Image


omg. i love that chef salad key! XD

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Offline ricercar

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 10 November 2009, 00:48:42 »
of course all I have is a phonecam when I have a really nice key to show off.
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Offline clickclack

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 10 November 2009, 02:33:00 »
Quote from: ripster;131374
Found this pic while browsing OTD.

Whew.  I thought I was getting a little obsessive about keys.


I would imagine you think I am certifiable at this point then, 50,000+ keys and counting :S

I have a couple metal (aluminum and bronze) prototypes right now that look very similar to that blue (upside down one) anodized one. I also have some metalic coated plastic ones (not plated and not painted, but bonded). I don't have to cast them like a dentist or a jewler though which would save some time at the cost of "some" refinement. We shall se how interest goes though since I am mostly at the moment doing this for myself.
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Offline AndrewZorn

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 10 November 2009, 07:36:02 »
the metal coated plastic is interesting... the look, no wear, but keeps the same feel.  fake too, but hopefully then cost savings justifies it.

Offline TheSoulhunter

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 10 November 2009, 08:50:40 »
Already made some "raws" at work, now I'm saving on a small milling-machine... ;D


Offline itlnstln

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 10 November 2009, 08:53:18 »
Nice pic.  I can't wait to see what you come up with.


Offline Rajagra

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 10 November 2009, 11:28:00 »
Quote from: overdriver;131341
total weight is 10.9g (original plastic one was 0.3g)

Quote from: webwit;131389
How would this feel? And a 55g key becomes a 44g key?

Quote from: AndrewZorn;131391
i cant imagine it doing anything else

It would do much more than that. The upwards acceleration when you release the key would be 36 times slower. (A=F/M)
(EDIT> Actually it's more like a 45 X difference as the net force is reduced by 10g)

Maybe not a problem for the escape key, but you wouldn't want to type the letters on keys like that.

[strike]Edit> Calculated some times. A 0.3g key takes 0.067s to rise 4mm with a constant 55g spring force.
A 10.9g key takes 0.45s. Nearly half a second![/strike] Corrected below!
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 November 2009, 08:58:43 by Rajagra »

Offline PRISONER 24601

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 10 November 2009, 14:55:40 »


What this world really needs is a peppermint escape key~!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.
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Offline ak_nala

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 06:07:06 »
Quote from: Rajagra;131514
Edit> Calculated some times. A 0.3g key takes 0.067s to rise 4mm with a constant 55g spring force.
A 10.9g key takes 0.45s. Nearly half a second!


Hmmm - been awhile since I took Physics (much longer than I care to admit), but pretty sure that's not quite right.


If I am correct:

First, we have to convert everything into meters, kilograms and newtons for distance, mass and force units to be correctly applied.


Key Travel (Displacement) = 4mm = 0.004 meters

Mass of Original Plastic key = 0.3 g = 0.0003 kg
Mass of New Metal key = 10.9 g = 0.0109 kg

Nominal Spring "Force" on key measured as weight to actuate, discounting key weight = 55g**  =  0.055  kg

** Plus or minus the 0.3g of the plastic key is well inside the margin of error of the Rip-O-Meter so seems reasonable to take the full measurement as the weightless strength of the spring in this case.


Converting the kg of the Spring "Force" measurement to Newtons (actual unit of Force) we multiply by conversion factor of 9.80665 Newtons per 1 kg (at Earth Sea-Level):

F = 0.055 x 9.80665 = 0.539 newtons

Acceleration from A = F / M:

Original key = 0.539 / 0.0003 = 1796.67 meters per second per second
Metal key = 0.539 / 0.0109 = 49.45 meters per second per second

Now, to take into account Gravity's effect, subtract 9.8 meters per second per second for each (assuming, of course, that the keys are vertical, though the effects of slightly angling the keys is relatively minor if only a few degrees off):

Original key Net Acceleration = 1796.67 - 9.8 = 1786.87
Metal key Net Acceleration = 49.45 - 9.8 = 39.65


To get how much time it takes to travel from full down to full up assuming a constant force from the spring:

Time squared (in seconds) = Displacement (in meters) / one-half Acceleration
(above from the simplified formula S (distance traveled) = (1/2 x A) x (T squared) - - since initial Velocity is 0)

So, plugging things into this formula gives the following Key return times:

Plastic Key =  0.00212 seconds = approx. 2 milliseconds
Metal Key = 0.0142 seconds = approx. 14 milliseconds

So even the metal key would give a theoretical limit of around 35 characters per second on a given key if the down and up time are identical and with no time between strokes (or 7 words per second = 420 wpm).

Mind you, all of this assumes a constant acceleration force from the spring for the whole distance, with no friction, and that the keycap is the only mass being accelerated (the key stem/plunger should be weighed and added to the keycap to achieve more accurate results).  


EDIT:  It occurred to me that perhaps I should have used only the net spring force after the weight of the keys themselves were deducted (55g and 44g for Plastic and Metal respectively) as that is all that would be available to provide the acceleration force. If this is the case, then the revised results are:

Plastic key (taken as baseline and essentially the same) = 0.00212 seconds
Metal key = 0.0164 seconds (only a 2.2 millisecond difference and still giving 30 characters per second)

The revised figures for Metal Key:
F = 0.044 x 9.80665 = 0.4315 newtons
A = 0.4315 / 0.0109 = 39.59 meters per second per second
Net A = 39.59 - 9.8 = 29.79
Time to travel up 4mm =  0.0164


EDIT - EDIT:  Wow, I am rusty. Don't know what I was thinking trying to put the gravitational stuff in there when it is already accounted for if you net the opposing forces of spring and weight. So last "Edit" approach is correct but without the spurious 9.8 m/s2 held over from first try. (Note, however, that the initial 55g force measurement for the spring is essentially already a net force for the original plastic key if the measurement was taken with the key in place.)

Final revisions result in (by coincidence basically the same as the first try):
Plastic key = 0.00211 = approx. 2 milliseconds
Metal key = 0.01420 = approx. 14 milliseconds
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 November 2009, 04:09:08 by ak_nala »
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Offline timw4mail

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 07:17:01 »
So, in other words, it would come back up slower, but likely fast enough that it wouldn't matter for the sake of actually typing.

De-bouncing might be another story though...
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Offline Shawn Stanford

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 07:24:15 »
Quote from: webwit;131349
Previous month you will carry and will be pulverized and that time it related the inside the threesome which gets twisted will make carry and to get that it gets think?

You usually pay double for that kind of action, Cotton.
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Offline Rajagra

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 08:53:03 »
Quote from: ak_nala;131657
Hmmm - been awhile since I took Physics (much longer than I care to admit), but pretty sure that's not quite right.


That's what I get for using Notepad to work things out in.:der:

Doing it properly:

Code: [Select]
s=ut+½at²
From a standing start (u=0) we get s=½at² or t=sqrt(2s/a)
s=4mm=0.004m
Spring force=55g=0.055Kg (assume fixed for simplicity, so result will only be approximate)

For 0.3g key (0.0003kg)
Net upwards force=9.8*(0.055-0.0003)=0.53606N
a=f/m=0.53606/0.003=1786.8666...m/s²
t=sqrt(2s/a)=sqrt(2*0.004/1786.8666...)=0.00212S
About 2ms

For 10.9g key (0.0109kg)
Net upwards force=9.8*(0.055-0.0109)=0.43218N
a=f/m=0.43218/0.0109=39.6495m/s²
t=sqrt(2s/a)=sqrt(2*0.004/39.6495)=0.0142S
About 14ms
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 November 2009, 08:55:36 by Rajagra »

Offline overdriver

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Gold & metal keycap and metal slider
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 13:58:24 »
Quote from: timw4mail;131670
So, in other words, it would come back up slower, but likely fast enough that it wouldn't matter for the sake of actually typing.

De-bouncing might be another story though...


Yeah.. I sense that the absolute 'gold' keycap is intended only for special key(e.g. ESC) since it has that kind of characteristic and it is expansive anyway.
He didn't say exactly how it feels like.. but I guess potential customers want it for cosmetic reason(cool & geekness and MDIBTYD factor) anway :becky:
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