Author Topic: NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)  (Read 9171 times)

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Offline elbowglue

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #100 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 15:46:52 »
I recommend the Filco Tenkeyless Blue Cherry board.  IF you don't mind the loudness of the noise that comes from it when typing, this is probably the sexiest beast out there, and feels the best too.  The otaku looks awesome, the only thing is you may have some trouble finding the right numbers across the top of the keyboard (typing 47 instead of 58), also good luck punctuating stuff with <>.,{}:"_+=-@#$%^ these symbols.

If you go with normal keycaps and think the otaku will be more sexier, you can buy a set of blank keycaps from elitekeyboards, but not the otherway around.

For pure typing experience blue cherries >> brown cherries, unless you need quiet operation.

Quote from: ch_123;129807
Odd, it has been discussed more than once.

They are considered bad, the reason being that when released, they don't really 'unclick'. What this means is that if you want to repeatedly press a key, you don't really know how far you have to let it go back up before you can press it again. Sounds odd, but you'd find out soon enough if you played an FPS with one.

That doesn't mean that they are diaolically bad, just that they are not ideal. Browns would be a better choice because the tactility is subtle and therefore doesn't really interfere with that kind of thing.
My keyboards: Filco Cherry Blue Tenkeyless(daily home), Compaq MX11800 (modded to blacks), Compaq "MX 84u",  Wellington\'s Dampened Endurapro, Pinkalicious Filco Blue Cherry, Chicony KB-5191, Chicony KB-5181, Desko MOS 5023 UP "elbowglue" spos (modded to blues), Siig Minitouch (monterey blue), SMK-88 (blue cherries), Ricercar SPOS
Smallest to biggest keyboards in inches (Length X Height) - Length is most important for a midline mouse position

KBC Poker: 11.6 x 3.9 - HHKB: 11.6 x 4.3 - Siig Minitouch (Geekhack Space Saver): 11.6 x 6 - Deck/Tg3 82: 12 x 6 - Noppoo Choc Mini 12.4 x 5.3 - Compaq "MX 84u": 13.1 x 7.5 - Filco Tenkeyless: 14 x 5.3 - Cherry "ricercar spos" G86-62410EUAGSA: 14 x 7.75 - Topre Realforce 86u: 14.4 x 6.65 - Desko "elbowglue spos" MOS 5023 UP: 14.5 x 8.4 - IBM Model M Spacesaver: 15.3 x 7 - G80-1800: 15.9 x 7.1 - Adesso MKB-125B: 16 x 7.3 - Compaq Mx11800, Cherry G80-11900: 16.25 x 7.5 - Filco Standard: 17.3 x 5.4 - Unicomp Endurapro: 17.9 x 7.1 - Adesso MKB-135B: 18.3 x 6.0 - Cherry G80-3000: 18.5 x 7.6 - IBM Model M, Unicomp Customizer: 19.3 x 8.27

Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #101 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 17:00:43 »
So a vote against Blues for gaming. Just what I was waiting for. I can always try Blues later I guess, I can just pick up that Cherry Brown Filco Tenkeyless. But do I want the Printed Keycap version already in stock, or should I wait for the Otaku blank version? I think I lost the ability to decide ****.

Also, the Otaku version should have that special coating, whereas if you get the blank keycaps separate, it will not have that coating. How good is this coating?

BTW, I searched, but I admit I didn't have time to read and read to find the right info =)
« Last Edit: Sun, 01 November 2009, 17:03:19 by NeoDiNardo »

Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #102 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 17:10:08 »
I was debating making the keyboard partly blank. like all the main typing keys blank, but the number row, the function keys, etc, could be labled. Best of both worlds yes?

But I want the keycaps to be coated the same. Why would they make those extra blank keycaps different?

Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #103 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 20:30:43 »
Read up on that coating wear thread on the Filcos, it was so long and off topic, got nothing out of it really except that I wish the plastic was less wearable. The only board I know that does something special is again Deck, the keycaps are impossible to wear the charater out. I forget if that is sublaminated or double shot or whatever.

Found two interesting links I'm sure everyone knows about here, but I will post them anyway.

Video of the Deck Legend Tactile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=menPPFQ2AEw&feature=player_embedded

A useful thread on keyboards:

http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/491752-mechanical-keyboard-guide.html

Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #104 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 20:33:57 »
Which got me thinking, they sell a blank keycap set at Deck for $25, which someone noted that you can put on any Cherry MX switch. So if I wanted, I could grab the blank Deck caps, put them on the Filco. Even mod the Filco with LEDs.

Offline elbowglue

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #105 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 21:02:27 »
Get the filco otaku 87 key if you are worried about keycap wear.
My keyboards: Filco Cherry Blue Tenkeyless(daily home), Compaq MX11800 (modded to blacks), Compaq "MX 84u",  Wellington\'s Dampened Endurapro, Pinkalicious Filco Blue Cherry, Chicony KB-5191, Chicony KB-5181, Desko MOS 5023 UP "elbowglue" spos (modded to blues), Siig Minitouch (monterey blue), SMK-88 (blue cherries), Ricercar SPOS
Smallest to biggest keyboards in inches (Length X Height) - Length is most important for a midline mouse position

KBC Poker: 11.6 x 3.9 - HHKB: 11.6 x 4.3 - Siig Minitouch (Geekhack Space Saver): 11.6 x 6 - Deck/Tg3 82: 12 x 6 - Noppoo Choc Mini 12.4 x 5.3 - Compaq "MX 84u": 13.1 x 7.5 - Filco Tenkeyless: 14 x 5.3 - Cherry "ricercar spos" G86-62410EUAGSA: 14 x 7.75 - Topre Realforce 86u: 14.4 x 6.65 - Desko "elbowglue spos" MOS 5023 UP: 14.5 x 8.4 - IBM Model M Spacesaver: 15.3 x 7 - G80-1800: 15.9 x 7.1 - Adesso MKB-125B: 16 x 7.3 - Compaq Mx11800, Cherry G80-11900: 16.25 x 7.5 - Filco Standard: 17.3 x 5.4 - Unicomp Endurapro: 17.9 x 7.1 - Adesso MKB-135B: 18.3 x 6.0 - Cherry G80-3000: 18.5 x 7.6 - IBM Model M, Unicomp Customizer: 19.3 x 8.27

Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #106 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 21:12:15 »
Wow. I knew I was waffling, but I didnt know how much until I read my own thread again. Kinda like a skipping record loop. Guess I will decide sooner or later! Anything is better than nothing. To think I typed all this on a 15 dollar keyboard!!

Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #107 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 21:20:43 »
Quote from: elbowglue;129834
Get the filco otaku 87 key if you are worried about keycap wear.


After reading some more, I can say I'm not really worried about keycap wear. In fact, I decided against the Otaku version, at least on my gaming board. You see, if I hold the keyboard in a gaming grip, my typing memory grip will not help me find the buttons I choose for game commands. And if someone borrows my PC, they will be lost with the Otaku. I can type just fine without looking, I just can't hit the number and extra buttons right yet, but I will learn. I don't look as a rule. But for gaming, in a different hand position, I would be lost. It would suck. And every game is different. I need more points of reference, like a keycap printing! Or I suppose I could try to wing it with the WASD purple keys, but still, I feel like for gaming the characters could come in handy.
« Last Edit: Sun, 01 November 2009, 22:55:19 by NeoDiNardo »

Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #108 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 22:24:45 »
I don't know why I even post. I kept chaning my mind and editing.
« Last Edit: Sun, 01 November 2009, 23:09:31 by NeoDiNardo »

Offline rdh

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #109 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 22:44:23 »
Quote from: NeoDiNardo;129832
Which got me thinking, they sell a blank keycap set at Deck for $25, which someone noted that you can put on any Cherry MX switch. So if I wanted, I could grab the blank Deck caps, put them on the Filco. Even mod the Filco with LEDs.


Most Cherry-switch boards have "sculpted" key caps, meaning the shape in each row is slightly different.  This lets the key tops follow a curve even though the switches are attached to a flat circuit board.
The Deck folks took a different approach and used the same key cap shape for all rows.

I believe the Deck blank caps should work on the Filco (except for the ones to the left of the space bar, which are narrower to fit in Deck's FN key), but they will have a different shape than the Filco key caps.
at home: IBM "Space Saving" Model M
at work: Topre Realforce 87UKB55


Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #110 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 22:52:33 »
Quote from: rdh;129844
Most Cherry-switch boards have "sculpted" key caps, meaning the shape in each row is slightly different.  This lets the key tops follow a curve even though the switches are attached to a flat circuit board.
The Deck folks took a different approach and used the same key cap shape for all rows.

I believe the Deck blank caps should work on the Filco (except for the ones to the left of the space bar, which are narrower to fit in Deck's FN key), but they will have a different shape than the Filco key caps.


It was just a random thought, of course I am not pursuing this idea.

Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #111 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 22:56:30 »
been reading all day on this... wasted all the sunlight!

Offline rdh

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #112 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 22:59:01 »
Quote from: NeoDiNardo;129845
It was just a random thought, of course I am not pursuing this idea.


Just makin' sure you knew.  

Plus, I meant "to the right of the space bar", not left.  Gonna have to get out my "L" and "R" mittens again.
at home: IBM "Space Saving" Model M
at work: Topre Realforce 87UKB55


Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #113 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 23:34:19 »
Just pulled the trigger on a Filco Tenkeyless Tactile Touch Keyboard. Ordered purple WASD keycaps too. It should be a great addition to my Logitech G500 Mouse and Razer Megasoma Mousepad.

Offline kencheeto

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« Reply #114 on: Mon, 02 November 2009, 01:24:59 »
I think you'll be happy. I'm on the filco right now and as an ex-'pro' fps gamer, the key action is just fine.

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #115 on: Tue, 03 November 2009, 02:37:40 »
Quote from: kencheeto;129853
I think you'll be happy. I'm on the filco right now and as an ex-'pro' fps gamer, the key action is just fine.


Brown Keyswitch?

Offline J888www

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #116 on: Tue, 03 November 2009, 05:05:37 »
Glad to see you have finally pressed the "No Return" button and purchased your Final Decision.

After due consideration derived from this Post, I've decided on a Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Click (seduced by the alluring pretty green lights) without WASD as I'm far too old for games. Also decided to add a "Clear acrylic Keyboard Roof", not so much for the "Je ne sais quoi" but more to do with my old clumsy trembling hands.  Accidents occurring even more frequent as Time flies,  and the green lights are more soothing for my blurring eyes.
Often outspoken, please forgive any cause for offense.
Thank you all in GH for reading.

Keyboards & Pointing Devices :-
[/FONT]One Too Many[/COLOR]

Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #117 on: Sun, 08 November 2009, 12:51:34 »
Quote from: J888www;130062
Glad to see you have finally pressed the "No Return" button and purchased your Final Decision.

After due consideration derived from this Post, I've decided on a Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Click (seduced by the alluring pretty green lights) without WASD as I'm far too old for games. Also decided to add a "Clear acrylic Keyboard Roof", not so much for the "Je ne sais quoi" but more to do with my old clumsy trembling hands.  Accidents occurring even more frequent as Time flies,  and the green lights are more soothing for my blurring eyes.


Yep... ordering from Filco is kinda like passing the "Windmill Of No Return" from Back to the Future III.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-ankOcRY1c

I have not recieved it yet, but it's on a shipping truck somewhere. Elitekeyboards is not exactly as speedy as Amazon or Newegg, but it will do.
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 November 2009, 13:17:31 by NeoDiNardo »

Offline exousia

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #118 on: Mon, 09 November 2009, 18:09:06 »
Quote from: NeoDiNardo;129757
how bout cherry blues?


i want cherry clears tbh
« Last Edit: Mon, 09 November 2009, 18:50:18 by exousia »

Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #119 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 00:11:55 »
So I am typing this post with my new Filco Tenkeyless Tactile Touch right now. I like the keyboard so far, this is my first typing exercise with it. Much better than my 15 dollar "hold me over" board. That's to be expected though.

I use to own the Matias Tactile Pro Keyboard for a few weeks, so it's not like I never tried a mechanical keyboard before. The MTPK had lots of issues, so I gave it away to a family member, with the intention of upgrading, but never did. I even had the Happy Hacking Keyboard with Topres, for a day anyway. I sent it back as it was not what I wanted at the time, underwelming for the money was my thoughts, I did not give it a chance though.

I am bottoming out almost every key when I type, I have a heavy hand and definatly thought I would feel that "slight tactile bump" more. I can't feel it at all when I type, I can feel it ever so sightly if I press a key from the side. Once my hands are in the typeing postion, no bump at all, yet the key action is still what I would call nice. Don't even worry about that bump getting in the way of gaming like. It's like linear with a light keystroke to me right now. Keybounce is vastly improved over my old rubber dome.

Using the backspace a lot, but when I get going I fly, typeing pretty good. The mistakes take three times as long to correct than when I am not making any, I would say my typing speed is up instantly as it feels like I am churing out sentences better.

Even after all the reading and posting here, I am still suprised at how light the keystroke is. I can see how this would be great for typeing as when I don't mess up I can really fly without stressing my fingers. For gaming I will have to be  deliborate for sure, so I don't press a button by mistake, yet it should be ok. Might want to get that Cherry Black version someday, guess it depends on how much I game and all. The keys are louder than a dome for sure, not bad, but enough for me to wonder if the Blues really make that much more noise over what I am hearing.

My lession is take everything you imagined and kick it down a notch. I bet the Blues will not be as clicky as I imagined it before when I eventually get to try them. Making mistakes due to the lightness of the keystroke, but I think i will get use to it soon and I will like the lightness for typeing. Should be better than a non mechanical board for gaming by far, even if I would like the Blacks for gaming, it's still far better than rubber domes. Don't know about how the Topres would be, I can't remember how they felt.

The Tenkeyless part is interesting. More room for gaming and centering your keyboard. I use numbers in my passcodes, but now I may limit that as I don't have that handy numberpad anymore. The board is short! My Razer Megasoma mousepad is as long as my keyboard! Did not like the Red Esc Key, or the Purple WASD Keys I ordered. Breaks up the black too much and they don't feel quite as gripfull as the main keys, guess thats that special coating, but its very subtle for sure. Not what I would call rubber at all, just a bit of grip, like if you licked your finger or not turning a page in a book. Even more subtle than that however. Like that coating vs no coating though. Definatly would want the ability to buy new keycaps with that coating (Printed Ones) when these wear down. The keyboard feels great and heavy, the kickstands are nice, and wow that bright blue LED right in my face. Far and away too bright! Might have to cover them up with some see threw dimming material. Pretty, but wow. Not a dealbreaker by any means, but wow. Nice build quality. I think I got the right keyboard, but I would not know if I was uneducated on keyswitches, I can't read much on this box, most of it is not in English! The words Tactile Touch do not appear anywhere. How much does a box cost again? Not a big deal, but another wow moment. A sticker promting vista? naaaa, I'm rocking Windows 7 baby.

Well that is enough random thoughts. Sorry I did  not take the time to edit this down to a more digestible read, don't have that kind of time, just typed what came into my head. Thanks for all the help guys. Oh, and that guy with the cat in a box pic, saw you around other forums during searchs trying to defend some keyboards! nice. I'm on Hard Forum myself under Sylar Powers. Trying to get on Xtreme Systems and Neogaf next. They don't just let you in it seems.

Typed all this laying down on my bed, so take that with a grain of salt. Good buy in the end, not sure if I will always stick with Cherry Browns, but its a billion times better than a rubber dome, so you will not be disappointed with this board if its your first mechanical board. So I would not want to return this at all, I like it alot... yea like I had a choice ;)
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 November 2009, 00:22:25 by NeoDiNardo »

Offline sixty

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #120 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 00:38:38 »
That does sound a lot like my own experiences with the brown. I was very disappointed by not really being able to feel the tactile bump when actually typing. The only way I was able to feel it was by pushing the keys individually, very slowly.

I gave the board time to see if it would grow on me.. about three months. I did not. Ultimately I ended up liking the blues so much more. By now thanks to all my various kinds of G80s I often type on Cherry Blacks and I actually like those a lot too by now.

Its hard to give more advice, the ultimate way to find out which switch really is for you is by going through all of them :/

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #121 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 02:06:44 »
Quote from: sixty;131635
That does sound a lot like my own experiences with the brown. I was very disappointed by not really being able to feel the tactile bump when actually typing. The only way I was able to feel it was by pushing the keys individually, very slowly.

I gave the board time to see if it would grow on me.. about three months. I did not. Ultimately I ended up liking the blues so much more. By now thanks to all my various kinds of G80s I often type on Cherry Blacks and I actually like those a lot too by now.

Its hard to give more advice, the ultimate way to find out which switch really is for you is by going through all of them :/


I like the Browns alot, the quesiton is will I like something else more. So your right in that I could gain from trying out more keyswitches. Honestly I am just glad I got something decent to type on for a change. The lack of tactle bump feel does not bother me, just surprising that they even call it a tactle bump! I just wanted something to type and game on with a degree of quality. In that it succeeds for now. I can try the Blacks and Blues next year. I will give them all a try eventually. That's the beauty of these Filcos. You can try every switch almost, even the Alps copies. No need to hunt down other keyboard designs. These will all look and feel good, come in Tenkeyless, etc, you just have to find the switch you want. Then you can sell all the other ones here! Sweet! I would try the Topres, but I will not buy a variable pressure keyboard, or one without an arrow key section. Common. I need those.
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 November 2009, 02:16:29 by NeoDiNardo »

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #122 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 07:12:42 »
Quote from: NeoDiNardo;131640
I like the Browns alot, the quesiton is will I like something else more. So your right in that I could gain from trying out more keyswitches. Honestly I am just glad I got something decent to type on for a change. The lack of tactle bump feel does not bother me, just surprising that they even call it a tactle bump! I just wanted something to type and game on with a degree of quality. In that it succeeds for now. I can try the Blacks and Blues next year. I will give them all a try eventually. That's the beauty of these Filcos. You can try every switch almost, even the Alps copies. No need to hunt down other keyboard designs. These will all look and feel good, come in Tenkeyless, etc, you just have to find the switch you want. Then you can sell all the other ones here! Sweet! I would try the Topres, but I will not buy a variable pressure keyboard, or one without an arrow key section. Common. I need those.


Compared to the tactile point on black ALPS, the Cherry brown is fairly noticeable. Ironically enough, I use the blue Cherry keyboard at work and the brown Cherry keyboard at home.  The blues are a little bit stiffer, but the weird force curve seems to accentuate the tactile point rather well. If you are looking solely for the tactile point, buckling spring has no contest. Cherry blues and browns are lighter on the fingers, though.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline Hakhu

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #123 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 07:48:23 »
Quote from: sixty;131635
... I often type on Cherry Blacks and I actually like those a lot too by now.


That's what really surprised me too.

I had bought a EU layout board with blacks which I then replaced with blues and put the blacks in the German layout board.
I plugged that in just for a little spin and for my girlfriend. She really needs those "Umlaute".
Now I use it regularly when at home and it's really nice. I like the force needed to actuate the key much better then the light blues. I'm thinking of swapping the springs (just the springs, so tactile, clicky, but a little higher actuation force). Has anyone tried that?

Offline ocdonkb

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« Reply #124 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 14:15:24 »
If I had to describe my kb's, I'd say the Unicomp buckling springs is "fun and loud"... where as the Filco cherry brown is "effortless typing". I like them both(maybe a tad more for the BS) for different reasons.
| Filco Brown 87 key | Realforce 87U | Unicomp Spacesaver | IBM Model M | Cherry ML4100 | Dell AT101W | Focus 2001 |

Offline sixty

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« Reply #125 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 14:42:30 »
Quote from: Hakhu;131674
That's what really surprised me too.

I had bought a EU layout board with blacks which I then replaced with blues and put the blacks in the German layout board.
I plugged that in just for a little spin and for my girlfriend. She really needs those "Umlaute".
Now I use it regularly when at home and it's really nice. I like the force needed to actuate the key much better then the light blues. I'm thinking of swapping the springs (just the springs, so tactile, clicky, but a little higher actuation force). Has anyone tried that?


Yes, I was thinking about doing this too for a while.. Actually huha on here has done a full spring swap and modded his G80 with blues to greens (blue+black spring = mx green). If I remember correctly, he liked it quite much.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #126 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 14:55:54 »
Nice idea but given the effort involved, I'd rather go and get myself a Model M. For me, the blue's main advantage is how un-stiff they are.

Offline Hakhu

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« Reply #127 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 16:31:09 »
Quote from: ch_123;131753
Nice idea but given the effort involved, I'd rather go and get myself a Model M.


It's not that bad. Once I had found the most effective way of doing it, it took me about 1.5 hours to swap all switches. Meaning: opening a whole row (about 15 switches), taking out stem and spring, then the other board, then switch. At the end this took about 10min.

I actually thought about doing a Realforce Mod (strong-finger-keys with black springs, the weak-finger-keys with blue springs). But I had already done half the board by the time I thought of it.

Offline Hakhu

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« Reply #128 on: Wed, 11 November 2009, 17:31:52 »
Do you have a link to that mod.
I'm having trouble imagining what part of the switch/key(?) to shave and how that would reduce that actuation force.

Thanks