Author Topic: What type of ALPS? Siig Minitouch (Read 8340 times)

erricrice · « **on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 16:11:08 »

Hallo everyone,
So after all this talk about fukkas and XMs and all this ALPS type stuff, I got to wondering what type of ALPS I had used.

So does anyone know what type of ALPS are in the Siig Minitouch?

Review with switch pics here. (No switch innards though)

They're definitely not XMs(no tabs near sliders) and I don't think that they're fukkas, since the Siig is pretty old. They don't have the ALPS logo on the switch.

Any ideas?

wellington1869 · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 16:17:02 »

siig minitouch = real, complicated, original, bigfoots.

one problem tho, the real complicated original bigfoots came in 2 slightly different varieties (I've had trouble pinning down the difference, which is supposed to be slight). For instance, real alps-heads (sandy comes to mind) would insist that you can only get the, er, "REAL-REAL, complicated, original, bigfoots" on the northgates and CVTs (no doubt he'd know of other obscure boards too).

The siig, also the dell at101w, and sgi etc, have the regular-real, complicated, original, bigfoots.

dont ask me which boards have the simplified white alps, cuz for the longest time I thought the dell at101w did, until someone corrected me.

also anyone feel free to jump in and correct the above, lol.

but basically the siig minitouch has a white alps that MOST people would consider to be real, complicated, original.

(and speaking for myself, while all this is interesting, this is why i cant take the alps-pedigree debates too seriously. THe differences are often very slight, and in some cases i've liked the supposedly later/inferior versions better than the originals, and in the end I believe it comes down to whatever floats your boat).

erricrice · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 16:49:44 »

Ok cool thanks!
I'm going to be getting a northgate(well used mind you) via 10 yr old storage special pretty soon, so I was wondering what to expect.
I would love to have this type of switch in a full size, although I do love the tininess of this thing.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 17:01:16 »

Quote from: erricrice;120371

Ok cool thanks!
I'm going to be getting a northgate(well used mind you) via 10 yr old storage special pretty soon, so I was wondering what to expect.
I would love to have this type of switch in a full size, although I do love the tininess of this thing.

well if you wind up with a northgate I think no one can accuse you of alps fakery

if you wind up with both a siig and a northgate, I'd be curious to know if you find any switch differences (both in construction or feel).

alpslover · « **Reply #4 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 19:04:46 »

Quote from: wellington1869;120360

siig minitouch = real, complicated, original, bigfoots.

the siig minitouch switches in that review that erric linked to are not real complicated original alps switches. they are one of the simplified variants.

however, it may very well be that siig minitouches were made with a variety of alps-type switches over the years and that some of them may have been genuine complicated alps.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #5 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 19:27:09 »

Quote from: alpslover;120389

the siig minitouch switches in that review that erric linked to are not real complicated original alps switches. they are one of the simplified variants.

however, it may very well be that siig minitouches were made with a variety of alps-type switches over the years and that some of them may have been genuine complicated alps.

lol, i knew there would be corrections needed

Well FWIW the northgate repair guy I asked about the siigs minitouch once told me they were original alps... tho maybe his terminology is different from ours...

erricrice · « **Reply #6 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 19:44:19 »

Quote from: wellington1869;120375

well if you wind up with a northgate I think no one can accuse you of alps fakery

if you wind up with both a siig and a northgate, I'd be curious to know if you find any switch differences (both in construction or feel).

I am most definitely going to be posting a review for the northgate once I get it, but it is very very yellowed, so I dunno if the switches are going to be any good. Again, updates when I get it.

Also, this Siig came from the nortgate repair guy, so I dunno.

erricrice · « **Reply #7 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 19:51:20 »

And I'm glad that these might not be true ALPS because they're a little bit stiff(not heavy, but weird if you don't push down on them perfectly straight)
Still a great feel though, love em even so.

quadibloc · « **Reply #8 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 20:21:47 »

I see that the SIIG Minitouch Plus (with Windows keys, naturally) is still being made, and with mechanical switches too. It's even available at places like Fry's Electronics, which apparently you can find in the United States.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #9 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 20:55:37 »

Quote from: quadibloc;120400

I see that the SIIG Minitouch Plus (with Windows keys, naturally) is still being made, and with mechanical switches too. It's even available at places like Fry's Electronics, which apparently you can find in the United States.

i believe those are rubber dome versions. There are a ton of rubber dome siig minitouches out there. I dont believe the alps version is made anymore.

erricrice · « **Reply #10 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 21:36:57 »

Quote from: wellington1869;120406

i believe those are rubber dome versions. There are a ton of rubber dome siig minitouches out there. I dont believe the alps version is made anymore.

Yeah the Minitouch Plus is rubber domes. And crappy ones at that.

quadibloc · « **Reply #11 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 23:04:55 »

I'm surprised, because the SIIG site now specifically states the keyboard has mechanical switches.

http://www.siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=JK-AB0211

Hmm, maybe it doesn't.

In any case, the keyboard runs to $40, unlike $12 or so for similar-looking keyboards. Small keyboards with laptop-like layouts are, after all, common enough, some with rubber domes, some with scissor switches.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #12 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 23:14:41 »

Quote from: quadibloc;120447

I'm surprised, because the SIIG site now specifically states the keyboard has mechanical switches.

http://www.siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=JK-AB0211

Hmm, maybe it doesn't.

In any case, the keyboard runs to $40, unlike $12 or so for similar-looking keyboards. Small keyboards with laptop-like layouts are, after all, common enough, some with rubber domes, some with scissor switches.

interesting, tho that description also says it has an AT connector, so its pretty old. Do they still have new old stock for sale for such an old board? Anyway if its NOS, I doubt they're still making AT boards.

Well even if its NOS, 50 bucks isnt bad for a NOS tenkeyless alps board.

rdjack21 · « **Reply #13 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 23:28:37 »

Quote from: quadibloc;120447

I'm surprised, because the SIIG site now specifically states the keyboard has mechanical switches.

http://www.siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=JK-AB0211

Hmm, maybe it doesn't.

In any case, the keyboard runs to $40, unlike $12 or so for similar-looking keyboards. Small keyboards with laptop-like layouts are, after all, common enough, some with rubber domes, some with scissor switches.

From the specifications tab:

Quote

Switch activation mechanism: Conductive rubber

Also says that key travel is 3.0mm so short throw as well.

maxlugar · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 00:31:28 »

Quote from: wellington1869;120360

siig minitouch = real, complicated, original, bigfoots.

For instance, real alps-heads (sandy comes to mind) would insist that you can only get the, er, "REAL-REAL, complicated, original, bigfoots" on the northgates and CVTs

also anyone feel free to jump in and correct the above, lol.

I am compelled to jump in and correct the statement about CVTs lol

CVTs do not use the same REAL complicated ALPS branded key switches used in the Northgate keyboards they supposedly emmulate. How could they? ALPS branded key switches are presumably no longer in production.

And without trying to reopen the ALPS debate that has been beaten to death by passionate supporters on each side of the ALPS camp: Supporters of real complicated ALPS key switches (i.e. Sandy, me) on the right and even more passionate supporters of unbranded simplifed type 1 ALPS copies (a.k.a. Fukkas) namely Wellington, on the left, when it ultimately comes down to personal preference.

The Fukkas are diabolically simple compared to real complicated ALPS switches, but the quality of the 4 components that make up the Fukka switch seems cheap compared to the components used in the complicated ALPS switch - especially the spring.

That being said, no one ever said cheap can't also be sheik. If it wasn't for that blasted controller or firmware or whatever is causing all the f...ups in the Filco Zero, Wellster would have damn near the ideal keyboard.

Me, I still prefer my Filco FKBN104MC/EB with its Cherry MX Blue key switches. I can't get it to f...up, no matter how hard I try.

Better luck with the TVS Gold Welly...:pray:

wellington1869 · « **Reply #15 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 00:41:21 »

lol, thanks for the correction max

tvs gold - no hearts will be broken here because i know what i'm getting up front

Namely kitsch value

anything more than that will merely be a pleasant surprise

The TP3 on the other hand: Praying :pray: that they get it right :-D

Of course, if you want to sell me the controller from your blue cherry filco... xD

Btw I got my docking station with ps2 ports, tho i havent run the fukka filco thru there yet. Will do it this weekend, just out of curiosity.

maxlugar · « **Reply #16 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 01:55:00 »

Quote from: wellington1869;120453

The TP3 on the other hand: Praying :pray: that they get it right :-D

Of course, if you want to sell me the controller from your blue cherry filco... xD

Btw I got my docking station with ps2 ports, tho i havent run the fukka filco thru there yet. Will do it this weekend, just out of curiosity.

If I were a a betting man...wait, I am a gambler!, I wouldn't hold my breath for the TP3.. I'll bet you my DSI ASK-6600U (a whoppin' $50 value), you will be majorly disappointed.

I'd sell you the controller from my Blue Cherry Filco but the feedback from the geekhack gurus and techno nerds suggests that the the Filco Blue Cherry controller wouldn't even work in the Zero.

I like my Blue Cherry Filco so much, I am strongly considering getting another one because I'm tired of hauling this one back and forth every day from the office to home. I know 104-key keyboards aren't cool but that's all EliteKeyboards currently stocks with Blue Cherries (no Otaku for me).

I'll eagerly anticipate the results of your tests with the Filco Zero using the ps/2 connection. :drum: and also look for pics of your snazzy TVS Gold :smokin:

wellington1869 · « **Reply #17 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 09:36:20 »

Quote from: maxlugar;120462

I'd sell you the controller from my Blue Cherry Filco but the feedback from the geekhack gurus and techno nerds suggests that the the Filco Blue Cherry controller wouldn't even work in the Zero.

rdh stuck his brown cherry controller (FKBN87M/EB majestouch tactile touch) in a fukka tenkeyless zero and it worked like a charm
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=120216&postcount=89

which gives us fukka owners all hope that we'll stumble upon a blue/brown cherry filco controller while walking down the street one day.

Although in this case both were 87 key boards; i wonder if the 104 key blue cherry controller would work as well.

maxlugar · « **Reply #18 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 11:04:57 »

Quote from: wellington1869;120499

rdh stuck his brown cherry controller (FKBN87M/EB majestouch tactile touch)
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=120216&postcount=89

i wonder if the 104 key blue cherry controller would work as well.

That's the potential issue to which I was referring. The only 87-key boards I have are the Zero and 87U.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #19 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 11:23:36 »

My two favorite switches still are the fukkas and the bs. Cant decide between them. Sometimes (like in the morning when my typing fingers arent warmed up yet) I like starting out on the BS; by afternoon i switch to fukkas when i'm flying along.

It sort of reminds me of my tennis racquets (back when I used to play), my coach would start me off with the big-plate widebody (more power) and then switch me to my regular racquet once I had a groove (more control). In this case, bs gives me more control and later I switch to more speed once i'm in a groove

of course its probably all just my imagination

I do like them both tho. Its telling that both are relatively medium-to-heavy, which is basically where I live when typing. With gobs of feedback (tactile and auditory). Never got used to the lighter switches.

anyway i'm very glad to have them both. Took me a year to 'stabilize' on switch choices but they seem fairly stable now.

HKEPCLED · « **Reply #20 on:** Tue, 29 September 2009, 08:06:11 »

The SIIG minitouch using some taiwan made slider call "Monterey", Not ALPS slider

http://s587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/HKEPCLED/Micro%20Touch%20SIIG/

http://s587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/HKEPCLED/Monterey%20Slider/

I also have a "Compucon" keyboard K-108 using the same "monterey" slider

http://s587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/HKEPCLED/Compucon%20K108/

erricrice · « **Reply #21 on:** Tue, 29 September 2009, 10:20:59 »

Quote from: HKEPCLED;121384

The SIIG minitouch using some taiwan made slider call "Monterey", Not ALPS slider

http://s587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/HKEPCLED/Micro%20Touch%20SIIG/

http://s587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/HKEPCLED/Monterey%20Slider/

I also have a "Compucon" keyboard K-108 using the same "monterey" slider

http://s587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/HKEPCLED/Compucon%20K108/

Huh, wow, it's looking like the minitouch could come with all kinds of different 'alps' type switches. Mine has what are definitely white/cream ALPS copies, with the four notches on each corner of the slider the way ALPS usually are, that one has those blue sliders and webwit's has yellow sliders for the function keys.

The world may never know.

itlnstln · « **Reply #22 on:** Tue, 29 September 2009, 10:28:51 »

How do the Montereys feel compared to the Alps switches?

chimera15 · « **Reply #23 on:** Wed, 11 November 2009, 16:13:38 »

Quote from: wellington1869;120360

siig minitouch = real, complicated, original, bigfoots.

one problem tho, the real complicated original bigfoots came in 2 slightly different varieties (I've had trouble pinning down the difference, which is supposed to be slight). For instance, real alps-heads (sandy comes to mind) would insist that you can only get the, er, "REAL-REAL, complicated, original, bigfoots" on the northgates and CVTs (no doubt he'd know of other obscure boards too).

The siig, also the dell at101w, and sgi etc, have the regular-real, complicated, original, bigfoots.

dont ask me which boards have the simplified white alps, cuz for the longest time I thought the dell at101w did, until someone corrected me.

also anyone feel free to jump in and correct the above, lol.

but basically the siig minitouch has a white alps that MOST people would consider to be real, complicated, original.

(and speaking for myself, while all this is interesting, this is why i cant take the alps-pedigree debates too seriously. THe differences are often very slight, and in some cases i've liked the supposedly later/inferior versions better than the originals, and in the end I believe it comes down to whatever floats your boat).

Considering the incarnations the board went through I won't doubt that some probably did have real complicated, however the majority of siig minitouch's 1903's and 1948's have fake simplified alps. I have 5 of them now, and they all originally had white fake simplified's, but I've modded one of them to have creams, and one real complicated, so it's possible if you encounter a real it might have been a mod or a repair. 2 of mine also have the yellows for function keys.

Dell bigfoots have real black tactile non clickies.

chimera15 · « **Reply #24 on:** Wed, 11 November 2009, 16:16:33 »

Quote from: itlnstln;121437

How do the Montereys feel compared to the Alps switches?

Monterey's I believe are also called nmb's and they're extremely light with a very light click. I have a full sized nmb board and it's probably one of my favorite clicky type switch.

itlnstln · « **Reply #25 on:** Wed, 11 November 2009, 16:20:22 »

I might have to check out the NMB switches if I come across one. Light switches are right up my alley.

microsoft windows · « **Reply #26 on:** Wed, 11 November 2009, 16:26:41 »

I like the big heavy buckling spring.

ch_123 · « **Reply #27 on:** Wed, 11 November 2009, 16:33:16 »

I liek Mudkipz!

microsoft windows · « **Reply #28 on:** Wed, 11 November 2009, 16:47:42 »

What on Earth (or some other planet) is that thing?

chimera15 · « **Reply #29 on:** Wed, 11 November 2009, 17:41:59 »

Quote from: microsoft windows;131803

What on Earth (or some other planet) is that thing?

It's a pokemon. It's an underground joke from the /b/ threads of 4chan, and encyclopedia dramatica.

microsoft windows · « **Reply #30 on:** Wed, 11 November 2009, 17:42:30 »

I've never heard of a "pokemon".

chimera15 · « **Reply #31 on:** Wed, 11 November 2009, 17:50:26 »

Quote from: microsoft windows;131845

I've never heard of a "pokemon".

omg. lol Pokemon is an anime series aimed at children. It's one of the most popular kids cartoons ever. It's like 10-15 years running.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/So_i_herd_u_liek_mudkip

timw4mail · « **Reply #32 on:** Wed, 11 November 2009, 17:59:50 »

12 years... 1997

Arc'xer · « **Reply #33 on:** Wed, 11 November 2009, 18:18:42 »

Quote from: timw4mail;131849

12 years... 1997

Earlier than that so it would be around 15 years maybe over 15 years so '95-'96. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it went further back considering the ideas and designs formulating over the life of it's creators.

Remember they had to dub and censor a lot of the episodes, like a lot of the shows they put here. So it didn't appear in the U.S. for a while.

News:

Author Topic: What type of ALPS? Siig Minitouch (Read 8340 times)