[IC] KAM Playground

[hottrout]

Great progress, obviously the base colour needs to be a lot darker.

[nihiltres]

Hey biip, I registered an account on geekhack just to say that I'm extremely interested in this. I'm looking around for caps for my first custom keyboard, and this set is just perfect for me. I'm working towards building a Hyper 7 (setting it up with 206 keys; 188x1u + 18x1.5u), so I'd be buying many sets, including particularly the Ergo to help fill out those 1.5u keys nicely. I'm also into the Mac-style symbols, so seeing the 1u and 1.5u "⌘" (command-symbol) keys in the Lisa set (not to mention the option and control symbols in the Ergo set) is great and makes this just an absolute dream after looking around at ways to combine other sets to fill my board in a consistent way while getting what I want.

I've got one piece of criticism and two requests.

First, the criticism. Since I'm getting many sets, I noticed that a group of media keys (icons for {back, play/pause, stop, forward}) is in a whole bunch of kits, including Stream, Audio, Creation, and Lisa. It might make sense to have these in a smaller kit mostly on their own, if only so that I and people like me don't end up with 4 copies of that group! I get that it's a bit of an awkward thing to change, but reduced redundancy is probably worth campaigning for.

Second, two requests: a mono legends kit, and a coding/debugging kit. They've already been asked-for, but I'm echoing the sentiment. Those are basically all I could wish for beyond the beautiful designs you've already presented.

Thanks for reading; keep being awesome.

[harlekein]

So it will definitely be matte?

I'm dissapointed, but it's not going to deter me.

[biip]

Kits update

[Starston3]

Very curious to understand why continue to forge ahead with this project with Keyreative seeing all their mishaps, poor communication, poor qc, sending out partial order before designer approved, switching to double shot pbt without consulting with the main vendor previously, etc…

[kidpid]

Very curious to understand why continue to forge ahead with this project with Keyreative seeing all their mishaps, poor communication, poor qc, sending out partial order before designer approved, switching to double shot pbt without consulting with the main vendor previously, etc…

Yeah, there's no chance I'm buying this set as a Keyreative set at this point. They've proven to be completely unreliable.

[Ravenhar]

I don't have a macropad but this set gives me a huge urge to build one. Could totally build a creation or stream pad using the gorgeous novelties. I'm still pretty new to the hobby so I've no preference between DSA or KAM.

Would more than likely pick up 2 or more kits though!

[HungerMechanic]

The CU7 is in GB again, which would probably pair well with this. CU7 is a macropad.

Still wish these were glossy, though. I rarely prefer glossy, but with this set, luxury lickable buttons, it just makes sense.

[vladimir108]

Oh yes please, add some programming stuff! I'd love to see this on a macropad!

Initially I was like: why? But that's actually not a bad idea.

I image icons for:
- debugging: run, break, step, next
- build, rebuild, execute, test
- (there must be more)

will do
still waiting for updates from the manufacturer.
At this point, I'm starting to also consider DSA.

No set for developers/admins? :-(

[William_S_Jones]

@biip DSA is fine w/ me!

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[key_nes]

100% in for the novelties. Loveeeeee the themeeeee 

agree! its super cute

[nihiltres]

No set for developers/admins? :-(

There are some keys, in Navigation and Creation, that are useful for developers. Navigation has step-into, step-out, step-over, and Creation has a bug key, plus biip has confirmed a "plugin" key via Discord. I agree that a dedicated developer set would be nice, but the keys do exist, and personally I'd be going for the "whole playground" kit that biip has teased that would include a single copy of every novelty.

@biip DSA is fine w/ me!

I'd personally much prefer the initial KAM or a similar smooth profile, as I'm not fond of the "pebbly" texture of DSA. It's no skin off my teeth if DSA is available in addition to KAM or whatever else, but I'd really like a smooth profile.

[Volny]

I'd personally much prefer the initial KAM or a similar smooth profile, as I'm not fond of the "pebbly" texture of DSA. It's no skin off my teeth if DSA is available in addition to KAM or whatever else, but I'd really like a smooth profile.

I can see how texture is going to be largely a personal preference. Though the 'pebbliness' of SP DSA keycaps is partly why they're so matte. Which I think makes them look more attractive and elegant than glossy caps. Though more importantly, this also makes legends stand out more clearly in various lighting conditions. And clarity of legends is obviously of particular importance when talking about macro keys like these.

Though having said that, DSA doesn't necessarily mean 'pebbly' anyway. I have a bunch of different DSA keycaps from different brands, and they all feel quite different. The Signature Plastics standard DSA PBT keycaps feel moderately textured (and, for me, excellent). I have some KPrepublic ones that feel a bit smoother, and some other ones I got on AliExpress that are smooth to the point of almost being slippery. Lastly, I have some novelties from Drop's DSA Astrolokeys set, and those are by far the most pebbly - considerably more so than SP.

[vishydesigns]

very cool!

[DomaRho]

The novelties for this set are fantastic. Audio/eq would be sick on a macropad

[biip]

@biip DSA is fine w/ me!

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DSA samples have been ordered.
I keep you posted

[William_S_Jones]

@biip DSA is fine w/ me!

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DSA samples have been ordered.
I keep you posted

Yes.....you rock, main reason you are 1 of my favorite keycap designers!

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[olihaimar]

Love the look of this biip! AND BOARDWALKKKKKK hooray

[Volny]

So happy about the DSA Will they be from Signature Plastics, or some other manufacturer?

[rpiguy9907]

So happy about the DSA Will they be from Signature Plastics, or some other manufacturer?

SP does not do reverse dye sub so I’m guessing no?

[Volny]

Ah, I see. Thanks. 

[sevenseacat]

Not interested at all if it's DSA, so I'll wait and see...

[William_S_Jones]

Not interested at all if it's DSA, so I'll wait and see...

DSA is GOD TIER!

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[Nothatso]

Yeah not to be too negative, but DSA is probably my least favorite profile to type on. I know Keyreative has its issues, but going DSA would kill any interest I have, personally.

[phxrbn]

Totally cool with dsa for a macro board set. Makes sense if kam can't get it right.

[Volny]

In my opinion, DSA is far and away the best option for macropads (and surely this set is first and foremost designed for macropads), for a simple reason: of all the uniform profiles, it has by far the greatest variety of available macro-friendly keycaps on the market. A macropad needs clearly labelled keycaps, yet every macropad is different, so it falls to each user to find keycaps that will translate to the myriad functions of their particular macropad. To this end, nothing on the market comes close to the DSA selection on pimpmykeyboard.com, which has the largest selection of icon- and word-based keycaps, and lets you buy individual keycaps from any of their designer DSA sets too. On top of that, there are quite a few novelty or macropad-leaning DSA sets on Aliexpress and elsewhere.

I'm sure that most people who are serious about piecing together a highly customised macropad have naturally found themselves landing on DSA, just as I did. Not because they particularly love the look or feel of the profile (maybe they do, maybe they don't - either way it's a secondary concern here) but because it opens doors to customisability options that none of the other profiles can.

The keycap selection in this set is very good indeed, but it can't cover everyone's needs, because everyone's needs are so varied. For example, as a heavy Photoshop user, I'm happy to see Photoshop-type keycaps in the "creation" kit, but there are still a bunch of Photoshop tools/shortcuts I use daily that aren't represented there. I'm sure most people would find similar gaps in their particular usage scenarios. If this set comes out in KAM, then we're pretty much stuck with those gaps, as KAM keysets are few and far between, and macropad-friendly ones even more so. But if the set comes out as DSA, it'll be a lot easier to supplement with existing options on the market. Sure, we'll have to accept some color differences between Playground and non-Playground keycaps, but at least the profile will be uniformly consistent and will still feel good to use.

[Mr Chrome]

The keycap selection in this set is very good indeed, but it can't cover everyone's needs, because everyone's needs are so varied. For example, as a heavy Photoshop user, I'm happy to see Photoshop-type keycaps in the "creation" kit, but there are still a bunch of Photoshop tools/shortcuts I use daily that aren't represented there. I'm sure most people would find similar gaps in their particular usage scenarios. If this set comes out in KAM, then we're pretty much stuck with those gaps, as KAM keysets are few and far between, and macropad-friendly ones even more so. But if the set comes out as DSA, it'll be a lot easier to supplement with existing options on the market. Sure, we'll have to accept some color differences between Playground and non-Playground keycaps, but at least the profile will be uniformly consistent and will still feel good to use.

Maybe it’s because I’ve always used blanks for macropads so I don’t worry about legends matching function, but I don’t see much reason to change the profile to DSA just because there are more DSA keysets widely available. I think the vague icons of the Addons kit covers for gaps in the other kits pretty well, and is definitely kinder on the eyes than mixing and matching sets. I do agree that the lack of in-stock KAM does mean you have to commit to the kits offered, though. Personally, I wouldn’t mind some base colour blanks to cover for any missing keys, seeing as the navy won’t match any existing sets. But that’s minor.

Not the biggest fan of DSA myself, but still think the change is a good idea if KAM can’t achieve the right colours or has any other issues (which they always do lol). KAT Space Cadet has been... interesting. Might be a good idea to poll the change.

[Volny]

I can't really imagine using blanks for macropads. It's not like alphas where you have 30 years' of muscle-memory to guide you, making legends not really necessary. I've found that my macro needs tend to evolve as my work and/or workflow evolves, and certain macro keys might only have been living in a particular spot for a few days or weeks, so clear labelling is a must. Though it just goes to show how differently everyone uses their macro keys, as I wrote before. I have a lot of macro keys in my setup (exactly 101 of them as it happens - I just counted), which I presume is a somewhat different use case to yours (unless you have that many too and still don't need legends for them, in which case I ask why bother getting keycaps at all when you could just as easily control the keys with your Jedi powers? )

[Mr Chrome]

I've found that my macro needs tend to evolve as my work and/or workflow evolves, and certain macro keys might only have been living in a particular spot for a few days or weeks ...

Ah, that's interesting! Having some keycaps only for days at a time is completely alien to me :L I only have 24 dedicated macro keys, not at all like your 101(!!!), and maybe it's because small orthos have put me in the habit of using layers and ignoring legends anyway, but blanks suit my needs just fine. I suppose even my use of blanks is actually an argument for DSA, with the availability of DSA blanks.

Still, I do think people who use a lot of macro keys end up with very specialised uses for them, and it becomes almost impossible to create a standalone set that works 100% for those users. I think this set is more about fulfilling the needs of the most common macros, and having vague keys which can be used for more niche ones, without being a ubiquitous set. I guess it's a set that can work for every use, but isn't designed for every use. If you were to make that, I suppose you should go for DSA and stock colours, kinda like the way relegendables fit that role, so that it can be mixed and matched for maximum application. But I prefer the aesthetic and uniqueness of this set.

TL;DR if not mixing sets then KAM > DSA for me, but Keyreative has a backlog and reputation from hell so I'm open to manu change.

[Volny]

I've found that my macro needs tend to evolve as my work and/or workflow evolves, and certain macro keys might only have been living in a particular spot for a few days or weeks ...

Ah, that's interesting! Having some keycaps only for days at a time is completely alien to me :L

I never said anything about keycaps being active for days at a time. Only that the overall setup tends to evolve over time as I continue to optimise it, and as my own work evolves. So some macro keys may end up shifting positions to different spots, while new ones will occasionally be added to the setup (on a long-term basis).

Still, I do think people who use a lot of macro keys end up with very specialised uses for them, and it becomes almost impossible to create a standalone set that works 100% for those users.

This was exactly my point. Since many users will therefore need to supplement this set with keycaps from other sets, it makes sense to use a profile that already has decent baseline options to choose from (ie. DSA) rather than one that has almost none (KAM). Mixing keycaps from different sets isn't aesthetically perfect, but many people who are in the market for a set like this may value function over form, in which case it may be a worthwhile compromise.

[BeardedChow]

This is an amazing set.

Would love a child set for video editing icons.

Drive me nuts there so many different programs for editing with no shortcut Keysets.

Definitely in for this regardless.

[Bub]

+1 to changing this to DSA. Can always run as KAM later if they get it together.

[salgiza]

The MOQ won't be a problem if changing to DSA? One of the nice things that Keyreactive does have is that there is no main kit and every key counts towards the MOQ, so it wouldn't be a problem if most people ignore the base (alphas) kit, and just buy one (or a few) of the icon sets.

That being said, even the alphas look really nice, and I would also buy them for sure if a South kit was available (although I understand that adding Norde & South kits would make this IC compete for the biggest number of kits ever!).

[bamblerow]

Curious about Ergo kit and redox.
I think KAM Superuser was the only set I remember included redox support for (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/3099/8088/products/ergo_blanks_1512x.png?v=1612533436), not sure if that we because they went with a blank approach. The 5 1.5u side keys feature appropriate legends that other kits don't contain in 1.25u form.

Would it be possible to add the 10 1.25u variants of the 1.5u in the ergo kit to the ergo kit?

[piit79]

DSA samples have been ordered.
I keep you posted
[/quote]

What's the turnaround time for DSA? Hope it's not 18+ months like SA...

And +1 for the programming/coding stuff!

[Yomiiiiii]

Yo, made an account just to talk about this set. Is it still in the works? Or has it been cancelled?

[ImaSpacePotato]

Yo, made an account just to talk about this set. Is it still in the works? Or has it been cancelled?

Biip is still waiting in samples, all manufacturers are pretty backed up right now.

[biip]

Yo, made an account just to talk about this set. Is it still in the works? Or has it been cancelled?

Biip is still waiting in samples, all manufacturers are pretty backed up right now.

This. Waiting for the DSA samples atm. Manu is working on it.

[Yomiiiiii]

Wonderful, whether it's DSA or KAM I'll definitely find a way to cop this set.

[William_S_Jones]

In & even more w/ it being KAM profile thanks @biip

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[piit79]

In & even more w/ it being KAM profile thanks @biip

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Did you mean "with it not being KAM profile"? Looks like it will be DSA...

[William_S_Jones]

In & even more w/ it being KAM profile thanks @biip

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Did you mean "with it not being KAM profile"? Looks like it will be DSA...

What ever it is, DSA or KAM, it's a win, I love both uniform profiles!

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[turangaleela]

Omg? I'm in the second these are available. The alphas are really nice too I could see a 60 plus a macropad for my editing work...
Big fan btw

[Nevrest]

Any update on the samples?

[GSPADE]

Another dope set from the one and only. These look great

[TerraKeycaps]

I like this a lot. Great variety of kits.

[ndom91]

DELETED - MISPOST

[lecorsair]

Doesn't seem Biip is that active on this forum anymore, is there any update anywhere? anyone know if this project is still being worked on?

[biip]

Doesn't seem Biip is that active on this forum anymore, is there any update anywhere? anyone know if this project is still being worked on?

I have not been quite active there lately indeed 😅
I tend to post more updates on my Discord server.

Latest update regarding this set being DSA samples ordered haha.
I keep you in touch!

[lecorsair]

Doesn't seem Biip is that active on this forum anymore, is there any update anywhere? anyone know if this project is still being worked on?

I have not been quite active there lately indeed 😅
I tend to post more updates on my Discord server.

Latest update regarding this set being DSA samples ordered haha.
I keep you in touch!

Thank you, biip!