Dye-sub DIY (crazy idea?)

[Matt3o]

okay, I've got this idea, wondering if anyone thought about something similar (or actually tried it)

- get a dye sub printer and inks
- make a mold (only the female part, ie. the key top) with heat resistant silicone
- print the legend on heat transfer paper
- cut the legend and place it into the heat resistant mold
- preheat the keycap
- put the keycap into the silicone mold and apply pressure
- heat the keycap+silicone+transfer paper with a professional heat blower or a press
- wait 20-30 seconds
- ta-dan!

crazy?

[Findecanor]

I don't know for sure, but my guess is that the ink used for dye-sublimation on paper is different than the one used for dye-sublimation on key caps.

[Matt3o]

that wouldn't be the normal dye sub ink, it's a special ink made for heat transfer paper (to dye sub on mouse pads, mugs, plates, ...).

edit: something like this http://www.sublimation.com/consumer-division/sublimation-ink/sublijet-iq/epson-workforce-30-inkjet-printer

[mkawa]

not crazy at all. basically what's being done by the larger rigs but at a smaller scale. you can dye sub many materials this way actually. the trick is really getting reliable results out of your dye sub printer and inks. unless you do indexed color and multiple passes with a very stable jig, it's much much harder to get reliable, repeatable and predictable results than you would think.

[wcass]

i've been toying with a similar idea.

take blank white or ivory PBT keys and print legends with "permanent" marker (or other mask not effected by water or heat), then RIT dye the key to very dark. finish by removing the mask with nail polish remover/alcohol/mek to make a black key with white legends.

my handwriting is atrocious, but if it works, i would send a set of blank keys to a calligraphy vendor on etsy.

[funkymeeba]

Hm, so I'm about to get some stock blank PBTs from SP. Has anyone succeeded in any form with a DIY dye-sub? It might be a pretty neat experiment.

[WhiteFireDragon]

Matt3o, sounds like a great idea. But you try it out first and let me know how it works out lol. Concept does sound good on paper, not sure if it's practical though.

[Matt3o]

If I find a bargain dye sub kit I'll try it out. I believe it would need a lot of practice to get nice results, but it could work.

[Nik]

Folks seem to have success dying entire PBT keys with dye by submerging them in a vat of Rit or Dylon dye.  However, you can't make a legend if the whole key is dyed... which gets me thinking: I used to make Ukrainian-style Easter eggs, and the same process could be followed for DIY dye-sublimation without need for an expensive printer or ink (I don't know how much the printers are, but surely a couple packets of dye would cost less?)

When making Ukrainian Easter eggs, hot wax is applied to the surface of an egg to mask the area and keep it the egg's current colour.  When the egg is submerged in a dye, the colour of the dye is added to/mixed with the colour of the exposed areas of the egg, but the areas that are covered in wax are unaffected.  The process might go as follows: first white areas are masked, then yellow is added, the yellow areas are masked, then blue is added, the now green areas are masked, and finally, red is added causing all of the remaining areas to turn black.

The only issue is that the hot metal tool that is used to melt and apply wax to eggs would probably deform a plastic key and the wax might melt off in a warm bath of dye.  However, you could try a mask material that isn't so reliant on heat. 

The easiest method I can think of for this would be to mask the area you want to dye with a sticker and paint the area that you don't want to dye with a clear coat.  You can buy peel and stick letters, but it might be tricky to get a good font of the right size.  You could make your own sticker by printing out the characters you want on paper, applying some double-sided tape to the reverse side (the good stuff with a layer of wax paper attached), and cutting them out with an exacto knife.

[wcass]

i recently tried using fingernail polish to mask the top of a PBT cap before a dye job; it didn't work. i only waited 2 hours for it to dry, so waiting more time might help.

but while i was at KeyCon, Binge showed me some caps made by another GHer with a splatter pattern on them - Elmers glue.

i'll give both and a few more ideas a try soon and post the results.

[Krogenar]

If I find a bargain dye sub kit I'll try it out. I believe it would need a lot of practice to get nice results, but it could work.

It should definitely be possible. There are all sorts of kits out there for dyesub work. My favorite is a coffee cup press -- it's just like a platter press (big flat heating pad comes down onto a same-sized platter -- except it's cylindrical! There's no reason why it couldn't work. From a logistical standpoint, it would be a lot easier to build some sort of carrier to hold multiple keycaps at once, and then print the images on paper, and then sublimate multiple keycaps in one pass.

My guess is that this is what Unicomp is doing now. If you look at some of their "Geekhack" keys, the legend appears in multiple locations -- not always consistent. Dyesubbing a single key at a time is possible, but probably very, very tedious. If the keycap blanks are cheap enough, you might have a few 'bad' prints, and it wouldn't matter so much.

Any luck on the project, Matt?

[Matt3o]

Any luck on the project, Matt?

the cost of BPT caps even blank is holding me back. Theoretically seems feasible but I bet you are going to waste a hell lot of caps until you find the perfect config.

I actually found a 3D vacuum heat transfer kit... we could even dyesub the sides of the key. but it goes for $1600 + the printer/inks.

[Krogenar]

I've also seen some injection molding machines for maybe a little higher. I wonder if it would make sense for GH to fund a groupbuy to purchase a GH-owned injection machine. People who pay into the GB would get more access to the machine's output, discounts on future keycaps, etc. You would still have to fund making molds, though.

[kmiller8]

I am work on this, pls gief monies.

[SpAmRaY]

I am work on this, pls gief monies.

$5!

[nubbinator]

On a similar note, my dad said he still has a plate maker from his print shop he had to shut down, so we've been looking at seeing if we could make our own UV printing or pad printing setup.

[Krogenar]

I am work on this, pls gief monies.

LOL, yeah right -- you can handle the molten ABS!

[kmiller8]

LOL, yeah right -- you can handle the molten ABS!

I seriously am working on finding a way to do this sub-$500. Just gotta learn how to metalwork.

[nkzt]

I did it.


Please see my Website for detail.

[Matt3o]

cool! thanks for sharing!

[nubbinator]

I did it.

More

Show Image

Please see my Website for detail.

Care to share the website?

[kmiller8]

Care to share the website?

he has a little website button below his name.

[nubbinator]

Care to share the website?

he has a little website button below his name.

Thanks.  TIL that the little globe under the name is for a website.

[Krogenar]

Very clever to build a case up around the keys. What material did you use? And how about the cylindrical shape of the keys ... How did you overcome that issue? Keys look professional!

[wcass]

i think that it is mold silicone like this.
http://www.smooth-on.com/Silicone-Rubber-an/c2_1113_1136/index.html

the cylindrical shape problem is resolved by printing to thermoplastic film. the holes in the mold around the keys allow a vacuum (underneath) to pull the film tight against the tops of the caps. it looks like he uses a standard hot air gun to apply heat.

[nkzt]

About cylindrical shape problem, as wcass said, I resolved by vacuum form. It is known as 3D sublimation. It follows gentle curved surface well. To avoid steep curve, I carved some edges of the mount. Keys' far and near side center make gaps between the mount.

About the mount's material, they are all plaster. Very fragile, maybe not usable so many times, but cheap and easy to handle. Good for test.

Just for your information, silicone rubber expands much under high temperature. I saw it when I printed the keys (3D sublimation uses flexible silicone sheet as cover). Coefficient of thermal expansion may be important for the mount's material. The best material may be PBT, but I have no resort to mold PBT.

[Binge]

You mention in your blog about dye-sub ink, an inkjet printer which accepts this ink, and the transfer paper.  To locate this stuff would one simple search for the following words,

1.  Inkjet printer.

2.  Dye-sub ink.

3. Thermoplastic film

Will these key phrases return a number of results?

[mkawa]

dye sublimation ink is solid. a piezo style inkjet printer will NOT print dye sublimation inks. you need a solid ink thermal transfer printer for this in addition to your sublimation press and other jigs.

also, while there may or may not exist reliable low temperature dyesub inks (the jury is still out on this one as far as i'm concerned), high temperature dyesub inks will definitely remelt ABS caps.

finally, DO NOT TRY TO DYESUB ACETAL/DELRIN/POM CAPS WITHOUT ADEQUATE VENTILATION. there are formulations of acetal out there that outgas formaldehyde (much like PTFE does) at 100-180-ish celsius.

[nkzt]

Inkjet printer and dye-sub ink is usual things, I suppose. Actually I bought them as a product bundling from a seller in Japan. Weird strange shop. But the printer is normal brand new EPSON Japan model, PX-105,  4 color pigment ink low-end model. The shop explains that the printer for sublimation should be pigment ink printer. Search at amazon.com with "non oem ink sublimation" for more details.

Thermoplastic film is a problem. In conclusion, I bought from Shenzhen Basya http://www.aliexpress.com/store/735699. The item name was "A4 size transparent film for 3D blank phone case sublimation." But now the item page shows "Sorry, this item is no longer available!" Substitute can be found by searching "3D sublimation film", but I hear, the gold film is not as good as transparent one. You may ask Shenzhen Basya directly.

[Krogenar]

dye sublimation ink is solid. a piezo style inkjet printer will NOT print dye sublimation inks. you need a solid ink thermal transfer printer for this in addition to your sublimation press and other jigs.

I hate to differ (ok, that's a lie) but yes, there are liquid dye sublimation inks. I print to paper with dye sublimation inks all day -- and I do it with piezoelectric inkjet printers. Try a company named Sawgrass to see the liquid inks. Now, as far as the temperature is concerned, yes -- these inks that I use do require a high temperature before they sublimate. I pass everything through either a fixation unit or a heat press. So those inks might not be ideal for what you're doing. Where are you getting your film from, and how are you printing it?

also, while there may or may not exist reliable low temperature dyesub inks (the jury is still out on this one as far as i'm concerned), high temperature dyesub inks will definitely remelt ABS caps.

There probably are lower temp dyesub inks at this point, but there might be other ways to achieve a good result: maybe reduce the dwell time and put down more ink? I think a platen/press sort of setup might be easier, and make the process more consistent. There are secondhand heat presses that might work, with some fiddling.

EDIT: http://www.sawgrassink.com/v.php?pg=571

[wcass]

remember how well PBT takes iDye (and the old RIT dye). lots of sources will tell you that PBT starts breaking down in water/steam above 60 C. I read somewhere that this process starts with the plastic becoming "semipermeable" which might allow dye to penetrate. when the plastic cools, it would trap the dye just below the surface. might this explain nkzt's good results on PBT caps while his PVC caps failed?

also, i think that the only "press" he is using is the vacuum pressure sucking down the film (nkzt, please correct me if i am wrong). heat is supplied by a standard hot air gun. i think that a rework station would work better (better nozzle selection and very fine control of air temperature and volume).

something that might work for the base - perhaps better than plaster; modeling clay like this which is almost as cheap as plaster.

[mkawa]

dye sublimation ink is solid. a piezo style inkjet printer will NOT print dye sublimation inks. you need a solid ink thermal transfer printer for this in addition to your sublimation press and other jigs.

I hate to differ (ok, that's a lie) but yes, there are liquid dye sublimation inks. I print to paper with dye sublimation inks all day -- and I do it with piezoelectric inkjet printers. Try a company named Sawgrass to see the liquid inks. Now, as far as the temperature is concerned, yes -- these inks that I use do require a high temperature before they sublimate. I pass everything through either a fixation unit or a heat press. So those inks might not be ideal for what you're doing. Where are you getting your film from, and how are you printing it?

also, while there may or may not exist reliable low temperature dyesub inks (the jury is still out on this one as far as i'm concerned), high temperature dyesub inks will definitely remelt ABS caps.

There probably are lower temp dyesub inks at this point, but there might be other ways to achieve a good result: maybe reduce the dwell time and put down more ink? I think a platen/press sort of setup might be easier, and make the process more consistent. There are secondhand heat presses that might work, with some fiddling.

EDIT: http://www.sawgrassink.com/v.php?pg=571

yah, i've talked to sawgrass. they do have some liquids, but the sublimation process is still very high temp and i think the liquids require you to use their transfer substrate, no?.

[Krogenar]

yah, i've talked to sawgrass. they do have some liquids, but the sublimation process is still very high temp and i think the liquids require you to use their transfer substrate, no?.

No, you don't have to use their transfer paper. There are other vendors for the paper. Check out Beaver Paper for some transfer papers.

[Krogenar]

also, i think that the only "press" he is using is the vacuum pressure sucking down the film (nkzt, please correct me if i am wrong). heat is supplied by a standard hot air gun. i think that a rework station would work better (better nozzle selection and very fine control of air temperature and volume).

The vacuum used to hold the film in place is awesome -- but how consistent is the gun? A press like the one shown here would be a lot better.

http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/2055130/32551641/0/1368586838/Highly_safety_T-shirt_heat_press_machine.jpg

The padding on the top half of the press is heat resistant and can mold down onto a slightly irregular surface. nkzt has made the surface a lot less irregular with his jig, enough so that it might work with this kind of press.

[nkzt]

also, i think that the only "press" he is using is the vacuum pressure sucking down the film (nkzt, please correct me if i am wrong). heat is supplied by a standard hot air gun. i think that a rework station would work better (better nozzle selection and very fine control of air temperature and volume).

The vacuum used to hold the film in place is awesome -- but how consistent is the gun? A press like the one shown here would be a lot better.

http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/2055130/32551641/0/1368586838/Highly_safety_T-shirt_heat_press_machine.jpg

The padding on the top half of the press is heat resistant and can mold down onto a slightly irregular surface. nkzt has made the surface a lot less irregular with his jig, enough so that it might work with this kind of press.

Yes, wcass, I use only vacuum pressure for pressing the film.

I feel difficulties about temperature control. Rework station or T-shirt heat press may be the answer, but they are too expensive and I have no friends who have those things.

Besides those expensive instruments will keep most people off DIYing keycaps. I hope many people DIYs keycaps and sells them at eBay or Etsy. I want to see various keycaps! My instruments are under $700 overall, including inkjet printer, excluding vacuum cleaner and PC .

remember how well PBT takes iDye (and the old RIT dye). lots of sources will tell you that PBT starts breaking down in water/steam above 60 C. I read somewhere that this process starts with the plastic becoming "semipermeable" which might allow dye to penetrate. when the plastic cools, it would trap the dye just below the surface. might this explain nkzt's good results on PBT caps while his PVC caps failed?

The only PBT cap I printed is blue one. That is an accessory of Keycool keyboard. White caps are all ABS. ABS caps soften up around 100℃, therefore dye-sub is almost impossible. PBT caps don't soften up around 160℃, I hear. I bought the ABS caps because I misunderstood they are PBT... I hope PBT caps simplify the temperature control.

[mkawa]

yah, i've talked to sawgrass. they do have some liquids, but the sublimation process is still very high temp and i think the liquids require you to use their transfer substrate, no?.

No, you don't have to use their transfer paper. There are other vendors for the paper. Check out Beaver Paper for some transfer papers.

interesting...

[Matt3o]

I've found an incredibly good paper for sublimation, it's not actually paper, but a series of films (PET thermo-forming+metal+coating for dye inks). It's called gold film and it basically wraps around objects and sticks on them. It's incredibly good for 3d sublimation.

[nkzt]

Matt3o, did you get gold film? Is it translucent? If impenetrable to light, inconvenient with alignment, I suppose. If gold film is good enough, that's a good news.

[Matt3o]

no, it's not transparent but you can slightly see through. basically you need guides to make a very precise work. I'm trying to get my hands on it and make some tests.

[bueller]

Watching this with great interest. Would love to be able to DIY the missing caps to fill out Cherry Dye Sub sets for my Pure.

[Krogenar]

Suggestion: maybe use this film/dyesub to make more "artistic" keycaps to start, rather than just reproductions.

EDIT: What I mean is, let's take the film, brush on some ink in an artistic way, let it dry, and then layer multiple colors onto some PBT caps. Sure, it might look like every color was just painted on, but it would still technically be dyesubbed. Maybe a decoupage or watercolor effect could be achieved? And we wouldn't have to fuss over getting everything "perfect" with a printer or get a perfect alphanumeric imprint.

[nkzt]

Suggestion: maybe use this film/dyesub to make more "artistic" keycaps to start, rather than just reproductions.

EDIT: What I mean is, let's take the film, brush on some ink in an artistic way, let it dry, and then layer multiple colors onto some PBT caps. Sure, it might look like every color was just painted on, but it would still technically be dyesubbed. Maybe a decoupage or watercolor effect could be achieved? And we wouldn't have to fuss over getting everything "perfect" with a printer or get a perfect alphanumeric imprint.

hmm, Jacquard's Dye-Na-Flow ink may be the answer. http://www.amazon.com/Jacquard-Products-Dye-Na-Flow-Exciter-9-Color/dp/B0006IKE70/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1389061384&sr=8-3&keywords=dye+paint

Hand drawings for hand-touching plastic commodity seems cool. Handle of umbrella, iPhone case, wallet etc... And keycap, of course.

[mkawa]

I've found an incredibly good paper for sublimation, it's not actually paper, but a series of films (PET thermo-forming+metal+coating for dye inks). It's called gold film and it basically wraps around objects and sticks on them. It's incredibly good for 3d sublimation.

do you know the set of people who make this? it sounds like either a saint-gobain or dupont thing. not a lot of companies have the facilities to bond metal to PET without any adhesive

[Matt3o]

I've found an incredibly good paper for sublimation, it's not actually paper, but a series of films (PET thermo-forming+metal+coating for dye inks). It's called gold film and it basically wraps around objects and sticks on them. It's incredibly good for 3d sublimation.

do you know the set of people who make this? it sounds like either a saint-gobain or dupont thing. not a lot of companies have the facilities to bond metal to PET without any adhesive

not yet. I'm trying to get in touch with the company, Xmas holiday officially ended yesterday in Italy (the 6th of Jan is the silliest of the Italian festivities, we celebrate an old witch who uses her broom to clean your house and leaves candies for kids... no kidding, it's a pagan thing). Today or tomorrow I should know better.

[nkzt]

I've found an incredibly good paper for sublimation, it's not actually paper, but a series of films (PET thermo-forming+metal+coating for dye inks). It's called gold film and it basically wraps around objects and sticks on them. It's incredibly good for 3d sublimation.

do you know the set of people who make this? it sounds like either a saint-gobain or dupont thing. not a lot of companies have the facilities to bond metal to PET without any adhesive

Isn't it metallised film? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallised_film

[Krogenar]

Suggestion: maybe use this film/dyesub to make more "artistic" keycaps to start, rather than just reproductions.

EDIT: What I mean is, let's take the film, brush on some ink in an artistic way, let it dry, and then layer multiple colors onto some PBT caps. Sure, it might look like every color was just painted on, but it would still technically be dyesubbed. Maybe a decoupage or watercolor effect could be achieved? And we wouldn't have to fuss over getting everything "perfect" with a printer or get a perfect alphanumeric imprint.

hmm, Jacquard's Dye-Na-Flow ink may be the answer. http://www.amazon.com/Jacquard-Products-Dye-Na-Flow-Exciter-9-Color/dp/B0006IKE70/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1389061384&sr=8-3&keywords=dye+paint

Hand drawings for hand-touching plastic commodity seems cool. Handle of umbrella, iPhone case, wallet etc... And keycap, of course.

More on this Dye-Na-Color here.

I'm picturing finding the film, and painting directly using the ink (perhaps this product) and then letting it dry, and using the torch method you used to try to get some interesting patterns. Maybe something can be placed on the keycap prior to this, to mask it?

[Matt3o]

something like this

[Krogenar]

something like this

Show Image

Yeah, or even a solid color, or brushstroke of color, and then layer them. To do a single legend perfectly is probably going to be tough -- but an artistic design that could survive a minor inconsistency and still look good would make it easier to get some experience.

[Wildcard]

something like this

Show Image

Now that's pretty original.

[nkzt]

something like this

Show Image

Yeah, or even a solid color, or brushstroke of color, and then layer them. To do a single legend perfectly is probably going to be tough -- but an artistic design that could survive a minor inconsistency and still look good would make it easier to get some experience.

Oh, you talk about fine art's painting technique like drybrush. I misunderstood.

BTW, I ordered PBT white blank keycaps at here http://www.buychina.com/items/keycool-kay-cool-84-87-104-pbt-pom-abs-cap-kit-upptqlsorpo,  but they said out of stock, and they didn't change the item page yet... I cancelled the order and went to keycapsdirect. Now I'm waiting for their DSA PBT keycaps. I want DCS too. Please recommend me nice DCS PBT white blank keycaps.

[damorgue]

Several people have mentioned that the dyesubs of HHKB are sharper than those of other manufacturers such as imsto or BSP. I noticed that Realforce and HHKB don't appear to be fully saturated legends on undyed background. They look more like dark grey on very light grey. I started thinking of reasons why, and I came up with a theory. I make the assumption that the dye follows the general rule of diffusion; that the rate of diffusion of the dye into the polymer depends on the difference in concentration. The theory is basically that they saturate the legend with dye, after which they dye the entire cap a light grey. They might even bleach the entire cap after this has been done.

Explanation:


Observe the following example where I applied this. Both of the "FONT" below were blurred the same amount, but the lower one was treated by introducing clipping. I exaggerated a bit which makes it really evident. The same effect although less of it would be achieved if the background had only been made a little bit grey.

I think treated lower one appears sharper. Does this theory sound reasonable at all?

[Krogenar]

I think treated lower one appears sharper. Does this theory sound reasonable at all?

I dyesub fabrics in my business (for the past 20 years), and we experience this sort of bleeding once in a while. What we do is we reverse print to paper with dyesub inks, which are then sandwiched on top of our target fabric. Then we run them both through a heatpress. The press gets to a high temperature and the pressure holds everything in place, so there's no slippage.

The way it works is that the ink (started as a liquid) is now in a solid state on the paper, but under high heat will become a gas -- skipping over the liquid phase entirely -- and work its way into the fibers. But still, even as it is a gas, there's some expansion of the gas, which is what probably accounts for the fuzziness. Once in a while I have a client who wants a super, super thin white rule line, on a black background -- and if it's thin enough, it will "fill in" a bit. If my pressure settings aren't right, it will be worse. Also, after coming out of the press, the paper and the fabric have to be separated and stay separated, or a double-hit shadow can occur. Also, putting down more ink than is actually needed will "blow-through" to the backside of the fabric. So I use a third substrate, a tissue, to catch that outgassing.

So, based on that, I think that's the phenomena you're seeing with the keycaps -- outgassing. The ink becomes a gas and doesn't go perfectly down into the substrate, it feathers out a bit. That said, I have no real idea how the keycap manufacturers are dyesubbing their caps. Maybe they're using the vacuum-sealed film (seems like overkill to me, but ideal if you were going to dyesub the entire surface of the keycap), or maybe they've just got a jig that allows for paper and a sandwich press sort of heatpress. I could see the paper route working if they're doing whole trays of just a single kind of letter, and they blanks are cheap enough.

I would love to see someone use the film to dyesub the entire surface of a keycap -- just so you could say it's been done.

Right, sorry -- damorgue, your theory is absolutely plausible. The contrast between the black-on-white is what makes the the black-on-gray look so much better.

[Matt3o]

here you can see the gold film in action

[Krogenar]

here you can see the gold film in action

Notice how the blank cellphone cases and the gold film are sort of 'prepped' in the top part of the machine? I guess you can't do this without preheating them both. Also, check out 1:02 minutes in -- 119 degrees C. Can ABS keycaps withstand that kind of temperature?

[Matt3o]

Can ABS keycaps withstand that kind of temperature?

No, that would be PBT, I don't think dye ink would stick ABS anyway (even if the material could resist 100+ C)

[Krogenar]

Here's another video, 8 cases at once.

Naturally, no prices listed.
http://sublimet.com/sublimation-products/sublimation-film/

[Krogenar]

Found this: http://www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum/showthread.php?7532-3D-Sublimation-Using-Film

People are apparently making phones cases (hella harder than the surface of a keycap) using paper. But from the discussion it sounds like film has some issues as well.

[Matt3o]

Naturally, no prices listed.
http://sublimet.com/sublimation-products/sublimation-film/

I tried to contact them. THey are from Spain. Let's see.

[nkzt]

In my experience, I've never felt that bleeding is a problem. But I haven't tested such characteristics. Test chart for that purpose may reveal it. I'll try it.

I've encountered double exposure like shadow sometimes. I thought that the film slipped while heating. Cooling is important? hmm, I'll take care.

The gold film video is interesting. As far as I saw, the film is impenetrable and they used a hole punch for alignment (and for fixing too?). Similar and more sophisticated trick may be required for keycaps. Good luck, Matt3o!

I have some iPhone blank cases, free gift of transfer film. Some are hard (likely PBT) and some are soft (no idea). The soft cases deform under 200℃. Perhaps they are for low-temperature dye-sub ink.

[Euf0ria]

Regarding the video with Phone case and goldfilm:
Think of the positibility of this:
Instead of placing two pieces in The fixture, why not place 105 keycaps at a time and then cover with a goldfilm with the whole 105 keycap layout/design all perfectly aligned and then make a whole set in One go!
Mind = blown ;-)

[Krogenar]

Regarding the video with Phone case and goldfilm:
Think of the positibility of this:
Instead of placing two pieces in The fixture, why not place 105 keycaps at a time and then cover with a goldfilm with the whole 105 keycap layout/design all perfectly aligned and then make a whole set in One go!
Mind = blown ;-)

What I picture is taking a long section of the film and painting it directly with dyesub inks (in an artful way), letting it dry, and then putting it either into a rigged up oven, or using the blowtorch method to get the film to then conform to the sides of an array of keycaps. All these companies are very tight-lipped about the specs on the devices. Not a single one I found would declare prices or the temperatures necessary: just buy our stuff! *grumble*grumble*

I put in a request for more information to one of the companies, so hopefully I can get some information.

Nkzt, where did you buy the film? Which company did you use, if you don't mind me asking?

[nkzt]

Nkzt, where did you buy the film? Which company did you use, if you don't mind me asking?

As I wrote before, I bought my film from Shenzhen Basya http://www.aliexpress.com/store/735699. The item page is http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/A4-size-transparent-film-for-3D-blank-phone-case-sublimation/735699_1489636166.html (They sell it again). I don't know the manufacturer of the film.

Regarding the video with Phone case and goldfilm:
Think of the positibility of this:
Instead of placing two pieces in The fixture, why not place 105 keycaps at a time and then cover with a goldfilm with the whole 105 keycap layout/design all perfectly aligned and then make a whole set in One go!
Mind = blown ;-)

In my case, plaster jig doesn't have enough strength for such large structure. Stainless steel or aluminium alloy can make such jig, but it costs much. In the future, if I come to make 100 sets, I'll invest to jig and machine (remote possibility).

[wcass]

Regarding the video with Phone case and goldfilm:
Think of the positibility of this:
Instead of placing two pieces in The fixture, why not place 105 keycaps at a time and then cover with a goldfilm with the whole 105 keycap layout/design all perfectly aligned and then make a whole set in One go!
Mind = blown ;-)

What I picture is taking a long section of the film and painting it directly with dyesub inks (in an artful way), letting it dry, and then putting it either into a rigged up oven, or using the blowtorch method to get the film to then conform to the sides of an array of keycaps. All these companies are very tight-lipped about the specs on the devices. Not a single one I found would declare prices or the temperatures necessary: just buy our stuff! *grumble*grumble*

I put in a request for more information to one of the companies, so hopefully I can get some information.

Nkzt, where did you buy the film? Which company did you use, if you don't mind me asking?

one of the "iphone case dye sub with gold film" videos on Youtube that i watched included preheat times (few minutes - don't remember) and temp (130 C). but i think the video was in Portuguese. it might have had info about printer and ink too, i just don't remember.

[Krogenar]

Regarding the video with Phone case and goldfilm:
Think of the positibility of this:
Instead of placing two pieces in The fixture, why not place 105 keycaps at a time and then cover with a goldfilm with the whole 105 keycap layout/design all perfectly aligned and then make a whole set in One go!
Mind = blown ;-)

What I picture is taking a long section of the film and painting it directly with dyesub inks (in an artful way), letting it dry, and then putting it either into a rigged up oven, or using the blowtorch method to get the film to then conform to the sides of an array of keycaps. All these companies are very tight-lipped about the specs on the devices. Not a single one I found would declare prices or the temperatures necessary: just buy our stuff! *grumble*grumble*

I put in a request for more information to one of the companies, so hopefully I can get some information.

Nkzt, where did you buy the film? Which company did you use, if you don't mind me asking?

one of the "iphone case dye sub with gold film" videos on Youtube that i watched included preheat times (few minutes - don't remember) and temp (130 C). but i think the video was in Portuguese. it might have had info about printer and ink too, i just don't remember.

Yeah, there was definitely a preheating phase to all this -- not just for the cases, but also for the film. The film looks like it was just inkjet printed. You could buy a liter of each of CMYK and you'd be good for a loooooong time. A single drop of the stuff is probably overkill. If they offered samples of the ink and the film, that would be perfect.

[Matt3o]

the preheating makes the process easier/better, but it's not strictly necessary. I've seen other videos where they do not preheat the materials.

I tried to contact 3 companies but none of them replied, I think the want to keep everything a bit "close", they don't want people start dye-subbing at home.

[Matt3o]

I've been contacted by one of the companies. The cost of the whole system is around €3000 for the oven and accessories and €1000 for the printer and dye sub film.

[bueller]

I've been contacted by one of the companies. The cost of the whole system is around €3000 for the oven and accessories and €1000 for the printer and dye sub film.

Hrmm, I wonder if we could DIY the oven....

[nkzt]

I've been contacted by one of the companies. The cost of the whole system is around €3000 for the oven and accessories and €1000 for the printer and dye sub film.

€4000 seems regular price in Japan, too. This price includes every possible help, I suppose. Such price may be reasonable if you are going to run iPhone case printing shop. Without their help, your shop may be suffered from the technical and supply instability.

But they have never tested printing on keycaps. They cannot supply any keycaps and any information about printing on keycaps. You want a oven? Buy it at Aliexpress or Buychina. Around $900. http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=3d+sublimation&catId=0&initiative_id=AS_20140120062634

But I don't want oven yet. I can transfer dye-sub ink by common heat gun and vacuum cleaner. Oven helps much definitely, but expensive and space-occupying.

[Matt3o]

temperatures are not high, my kitchen oven reaches 220C so theoretically you can do it at home. the problem of course is fixing the film on the caps, but anyway your solution, nkzt, is simple and brilliant.

[nkzt]

I've printed a test chart on PBT keycaps. I've found ink bleed. About 2 px in 600 dpi. How can I compensate it? I'm not well informed such kind of problem.

[Matt3o]

what printer do you have? most printers have a heads alignment feature that you can run to optimize printing.

[nkzt]

Thanks Matt3o, I've tried "gap adjustment" just now. Vertical line becomes much better (printed on paper, not tried on keycaps yet).

But the bleed comes from dye-sub mechanism too. As damorgue wrote ever, deeper color bleeds more (measure the photo by a ruler).

[Matt3o]

I see what you mean. There's little you can do about it I guess, apart from making dark graphics a pinch smaller I guess.

[Krogenar]

Even with the color bleed, how well does a single character reproduce onto the keycap? Is it of acceptable quality? Can you post a picture of a keycap that displays the dot gain or bleeding?

[nkzt]

I see what you mean. There's little you can do about it I guess, apart from making dark graphics a pinch smaller I guess.

I've googled several hours and got a conclusion. The technology what I want is "non-blind image deconvolution." This is a black magic of mathematics and there is no handy way to use it for printing. I end up with as you wrote.

Even with the color bleed, how well does a single character reproduce onto the keycap? Is it of acceptable quality? Can you post a picture of a keycap that displays the dot gain or bleeding?

This problem will much suffer the printing quality when the image contains a lot of thin lines. I have no plan of printing such image for the moment, but I love general solution.

[Giorgio]

This was a wonderful idea.... too bad that it has stopped :-(