Author Topic: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)  (Read 77105 times)

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Offline Oobly

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #250 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 14:17:03 »
Just received official word from ZeniMax, parent company from Bethesda. They will not license anything. So, this group buy is now official cancelled. I will allow a day or two for final thoughts before I lock the thread.

The future: I plan to begin a new IC thread and I am thinking of running a single Vault 111 keycap in an array of colors. I would like to do an 87 key as well (my own personal wish) but beyond this...who knows.

Seriously thinking of moving on to some other ideas...

Sorry to hear this. Sort of expected it, but still gutted. Makes me worried about if SP will force us to do the same for Classic Space. I understand for sets run through PMK, since the licensing extends to them for selling after the GB, but for "limited edition" community-organised GB's with a set selling period they should be fine with a letter of liability... I do actually blame SP for this. At the very least they, as the corporation making money from the design, should be the ones sending the letters to copyright / trademark holders. It's beyond ridiculous to expect individual designers to do this.
Buying more keycaps,
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Offline tofgerl

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #251 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 14:21:31 »
I disagree. SP is just covering their asses, and that's just good business.

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #252 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 14:47:26 »
I disagree. SP is just covering their asses, and that's just good business.

True. But they just made over 500 keycaps with the exact legend on that they now want permission for... after giving price out quotes for the current GB. It might be legally 'covering their asses' but they also look like asses for doing a 180 with their stance.

Offline tofgerl

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #253 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 14:48:56 »
All true.

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #254 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 14:55:35 »
I disagree. SP is just covering their asses, and that's just good business.

True. But they just made over 500 keycaps with the exact legend on that they now want permission for... after giving price out quotes for the current GB. It might be legally 'covering their asses' but they also look like asses for doing a 180 with their stance.

Well, I will be covering mine and will be taking my own legends and running with them. Since I am the owner of my Vaults, and plan to expand the numbers of them 21, 87, 111 just to name a few. But honestly, I want a change of scenery for a while. Plus, I heard that it will be a long time before SA keycaps are going to be produced (i.e. Danger Zone set to ship in February 2016)
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Offline nathanrosspowell

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #255 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 14:58:46 »
I disagree. SP is just covering their asses, and that's just good business.

True. But they just made over 500 keycaps with the exact legend on that they now want permission for... after giving price out quotes for the current GB. It might be legally 'covering their asses' but they also look like asses for doing a 180 with their stance.

Well, I will be covering mine and will be taking my own legends and running with them. Since I am the owner of my Vaults, and plan to expand the numbers of them 21, 87, 111 just to name a few. But honestly, I want a change of scenery for a while. Plus, I heard that it will be a long time before SA keycaps are going to be produced (i.e. Danger Zone set to ship in February 2016)
Yea, makes sense.

Thanks for all your effort man take some time, we'll be here to snap up your next creations!

Offline Data

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #256 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:07:14 »
I disagree. SP is just covering their asses, and that's just good business.

True. But they just made over 500 keycaps with the exact legend on that they now want permission for... after giving price out quotes for the current GB. It might be legally 'covering their asses' but they also look like asses for doing a 180 with their stance.

Well, I will be covering mine and will be taking my own legends and running with them. Since I am the owner of my Vaults, and plan to expand the numbers of them 21, 87, 111 just to name a few. But honestly, I want a change of scenery for a while. Plus, I heard that it will be a long time before SA keycaps are going to be produced (i.e. Danger Zone set to ship in February 2016)
Yea, makes sense.

Thanks for all your effort man take some time, we'll be here to snap up your next creations!

For sure.  :cool:

Offline ika

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #257 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:09:05 »
FWIW the vault designs and Lucky 38 were the reason I bought into this buy :)


I got buyer's remorse over the Series 2 Nukas but after all this went down I decided to just keep them since they probably won't ever be produced again.

Offline Oobly

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #258 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:09:48 »
I disagree. SP is just covering their asses, and that's just good business.

True. But they just made over 500 keycaps with the exact legend on that they now want permission for... after giving price out quotes for the current GB. It might be legally 'covering their asses' but they also look like asses for doing a 180 with their stance.

Well, I will be covering mine and will be taking my own legends and running with them. Since I am the owner of my Vaults, and plan to expand the numbers of them 21, 87, 111 just to name a few. But honestly, I want a change of scenery for a while. Plus, I heard that it will be a long time before SA keycaps are going to be produced (i.e. Danger Zone set to ship in February 2016)
Yea, makes sense.

Thanks for all your effort man take some time, we'll be here to snap up your next creations!

+1 to this. You do good work, love the designs.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #259 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:11:38 »
FWIW the vault designs and Lucky 38 were the reason I bought into this buy :)


I got buyer's remorse over the Series 2 Nukas but after all this went down I decided to just keep them since they probably won't ever be produced again.

Thank you for your support...Lucky 38 sadly will not be produced in its current state. I could press it, but I don't want to risk it.
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Offline linkshine

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #260 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:14:00 »
Sorry 00. This sucks, but youll come back with something better.

You know who wouldn't have an issue! CDProjektRed. Those guys are chill.  :p

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #261 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:20:15 »
Sorry 00. This sucks, but youll come back with something better.

You know who wouldn't have an issue! CDProjektRed. Those guys are chill.  :p

Refresh my memory...who is CDProjektRed?
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Offline trees

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #262 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:24:12 »
Sorry 00. This sucks, but youll come back with something better.

You know who wouldn't have an issue! CDProjektRed. Those guys are chill.  :p

Refresh my memory...who is CDProjektRed?

Creators of the Witcher series of games.
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Offline BrainFlush

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #263 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:42:31 »
And I'm skipping Fallout 4.

Ouch...

I already bought it and wouldn't avoid it over this thing.
That being said.

ZERO! Why you giving up man?
The other designs are adequate! Make another random one and run this damn GB already!
We believe in you and I need these caps or FO4 will never be the same!

Yes I am being overly enthusiastic but it's sad to see this all end over one cap.
Even if you don't make another cap or have the NC one, this is still a great cap buy!

That's all I have to say.
Sorry that you might say FI and not do anything, I don't blame you.
I just wish it wasn't so...

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #264 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:47:55 »
And I'm skipping Fallout 4.

Ouch...

I already bought it and wouldn't avoid it over this thing.
That being said.

ZERO! Why you giving up man?
The other designs are adequate! Make another random one and run this damn GB already!
We believe in you and I need these caps or FO4 will never be the same!

Yes I am being overly enthusiastic but it's sad to see this all end over one cap.
Even if you don't make another cap or have the NC one, this is still a great cap buy!

That's all I have to say.
Sorry that you might say FI and not do anything, I don't blame you.
I just wish it wasn't so...

Thanks for the support. Main thing is how far back any SA production will be at this point. I would rather regroup, and Keep It Simple, Silly with a single Vault 111 keycap Group Buy for the Fans out there...
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Offline BrainFlush

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #265 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:55:10 »
Thanks for the support. Main thing is how far back any SA production will be at this point. I would rather regroup, and Keep It Simple, Silly with a single Vault 111 keycap Group Buy for the Fans out there...

That damn Top Gun buy is really putting them back.
They're talking like 2016 something.
Oh well, $65k give or take is more than this GB. So I don't blame them.
And I think they knew they had plans already. Clearly.

Just keep us posted.
Thanks and sorry again it was such a disappointing end result.

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #266 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 16:14:09 »
Thanks for the support. Main thing is how far back any SA production will be at this point. I would rather regroup, and Keep It Simple, Silly with a single Vault 111 keycap Group Buy for the Fans out there...

That damn Top Gun buy is really putting them back.
They're talking like 2016 something.
Oh well, $65k give or take is more than this GB. So I don't blame them.
And I think they knew they had plans already. Clearly.

Just keep us posted.
Thanks and sorry again it was such a disappointing end result.

I for one and currently awaiting my DZ set...can't wait.
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Offline TheMalacoda

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #267 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 17:06:28 »
It's a real shame this happened, but we appreciate all the work you put in 00zeRO. Makes me glad I jumped on the DSA when I had the chance though!

I'm disappointed I won't ever own an SA Nuka Cola cap but at the same time I am looking forward to this Vault themed group but you keep mentioning. For sure I will get in on that whenever you are ready.

Offline ika

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #268 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 17:47:56 »
Thanks for the support. Main thing is how far back any SA production will be at this point. I would rather regroup, and Keep It Simple, Silly with a single Vault 111 keycap Group Buy for the Fans out there...

That damn Top Gun buy is really putting them back.
They're talking like 2016 something.
Oh well, $65k give or take is more than this GB. So I don't blame them.
And I think they knew they had plans already. Clearly.

Just keep us posted.
Thanks and sorry again it was such a disappointing end result.

They anticipated February for Danger Zone before they got the numbers for the drop; it's doing really well. Carbon is the one that's really stuffing the production pipe. Over 500 base sets and IIRC over 2k total sets ordered, close to 3k maybe. SA production was already delayed before those mammoth drops came in.

Offline THSdrummer

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #269 on: Wed, 30 September 2015, 07:48:28 »
Couldn't be more disappointed in the folks at ZeniMax or Bethesda. Fallout 4 better be damn good to renew my trust in them.

Thanks so much Zero for putting so much effort and time into this GB. It was one I had looked forward to for a while.

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Offline Oobly

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #270 on: Wed, 30 September 2015, 08:42:34 »
Thanks for the support. Main thing is how far back any SA production will be at this point. I would rather regroup, and Keep It Simple, Silly with a single Vault 111 keycap Group Buy for the Fans out there...

That damn Top Gun buy is really putting them back.
They're talking like 2016 something.
Oh well, $65k give or take is more than this GB. So I don't blame them.
And I think they knew they had plans already. Clearly.

Just keep us posted.
Thanks and sorry again it was such a disappointing end result.

It's Massdrop...

SP are just finishing production of Jukebox now. Carbon got 600+ base sets sold, Danger Zone looks like it'll be close to 500. That's a lot of caps. If they ran as PMK or traditional GB's they'd probably not have sold anywhere close to those numbers and we'd be able to get new sets made sooner. Not disappointed, though. The more sets they sell to the community, the more likely they are to listen to us and treat us like proper customers.

I was actually surprised Ctrl|Alt got Retro SA produced so quickly.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Dernubenfrieken

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #271 on: Wed, 30 September 2015, 08:43:32 »
Quote
Couldn't be more disappointed in the folks at ZeniMax or Bethesda. Fallout 4 better be damn good to renew my trust in them.

Thanks so much Zero for putting so much effort and time into this GB. It was one I had looked forward to for a while.

I don't see why you would be. No one wants to put their name to something they have no control over, especially when they're as big a name as they are. Its not like they're going after double zero, they just aren't going to sign off on anything. Blame SP if anything.

Quote
It's Massdrop...

SP are just finishing production of Jukebox now. Carbon got 600+ base sets sold, Danger Zone looks like it'll be close to 500. That's a lot of caps. If they ran as PMK or traditional GB's they'd probably not have sold anywhere close to those numbers and we'd be able to get new sets made sooner. Not disappointed, though. The more sets they sell to the community, the more likely they are to listen to us and treat us like proper customers.

Yeah I think people are totally underestimating the power of massdrop as a platform. It brings in so many people that might not be totally secure with traditional group buys, or are just casual buyers lurking the mech keyboard page. Just look at the amount of keysets that sell despite already being available for similar prices on ebay/mechmarket/classified/mechanicalkeyboards.com/etc.
« Last Edit: Wed, 30 September 2015, 08:47:39 by Dernubenfrieken »
    

Offline atectatifern

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #272 on: Wed, 30 September 2015, 18:26:27 »
Bought these from the last GB. Had never played or bought Fallout but was interested in it, but can't give this company any money after they stomped on this.

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #273 on: Wed, 30 September 2015, 19:16:27 »
Bought these from the last GB. Had never played or bought Fallout but was interested in it, but can't give this company any money after they stomped on this.

They didn't stomp. They just didn't give a nod to my use of their rightful logo. We are all free to vote with our wallets, but this should not make anyone decide not to enjoy their products. I will still produce Vault # keys as well as other designs yet to be discovered...please give Bethesda a break.
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Offline atectatifern

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #274 on: Wed, 30 September 2015, 19:26:08 »
Okay, stomp is a little harsh, but they basically couldn't be bothered. Still not interested in supporting them.

Offline atectatifern

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #275 on: Wed, 30 September 2015, 19:38:52 »
P.S.: 00zeRO, thanks for the work you've done on this and the previous GBs. Bummed that this didn't work out due to corporate inertia and IP paranoia on SP's part, but will watch future ones with interest.

Offline Oobly

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #276 on: Thu, 01 October 2015, 01:15:09 »
Bought these from the last GB. Had never played or bought Fallout but was interested in it, but can't give this company any money after they stomped on this.

They didn't stomp. They just didn't give a nod to my use of their rightful logo. We are all free to vote with our wallets, but this should not make anyone decide not to enjoy their products. I will still produce Vault # keys as well as other designs yet to be discovered...please give Bethesda a break.

Yup, it's not really their fault. There's a massive gap between "We'll sue you if you use our stuff!" and "We won't give permission to use our stuff explicitly because that sets a precedent that can be taken advantage of". SP is forcing designers to do something nigh on impossible, just to cover their asses in case a company gets upset. This is actually brought on by their new design for the way they want to run PMK, so they can sell sets for money after any GB...

If you want to boycott somebody because of this, boycott SP (particularly PMK), not Bethesda.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline nathanrosspowell

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #277 on: Thu, 01 October 2015, 13:33:34 »
Yup, it's not really their fault. There's a massive gap between "We'll sue you if you use our stuff!" and "We won't give permission to use our stuff explicitly because that sets a precedent that can be taken advantage of". SP is forcing designers to do something nigh on impossible, just to cover their asses in case a company gets upset. This is actually brought on by their new design for the way they want to run PMK, so they can sell sets for money after any GB...

If you want to boycott somebody because of this, boycott SP (particularly PMK), not Bethesda.

Well said. Makes sense to me. :thumb:

Offline MaNiFeX

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #278 on: Thu, 01 October 2015, 14:02:19 »
Bought these from the last GB. Had never played or bought Fallout but was interested in it, but can't give this company any money after they stomped on this.

They didn't stomp. They just didn't give a nod to my use of their rightful logo. We are all free to vote with our wallets, but this should not make anyone decide not to enjoy their products. I will still produce Vault # keys as well as other designs yet to be discovered...please give Bethesda a break.

Yup, it's not really their fault. There's a massive gap between "We'll sue you if you use our stuff!" and "We won't give permission to use our stuff explicitly because that sets a precedent that can be taken advantage of". SP is forcing designers to do something nigh on impossible, just to cover their asses in case a company gets upset. This is actually brought on by their new design for the way they want to run PMK, so they can sell sets for money after any GB...

If you want to boycott somebody because of this, boycott SP (particularly PMK), not Bethesda.

Let's put this into some perspective, please.  SP is a very small company based out of a very small town in remote Washington state.  The fact they are still able to make a business off of POS keysets gives us the opportunity to make our own runs of keys.

Consider they have limited machines that not only need care and maintenance, but cost $10,000s of dollars to replace.  Dies aren't cheap and neither is the cost of keeping employees running these machines.  Procuring plastics in such a wide range of colors and keeping them in the workflow process must be a bear of a task in and of its self.

Now, imagine running this niche company and all of the sudden someone is asking you to produce copyrighted materials.  Say, Mickey Mouse, Bart Simpson, the Game of Thrones house symbols, Sonic the Hedgehog, or Vault Boy?  Are you willing to risk your business for the risk of being sued for not licensing the product?

I'm sure if someone wanted to put up money and license the images from Bethesda, there wouldn't be an issue.

Obviously Zero won't take on the risk, or he'd sign the contract he was asked to sign. It's not as easy as, 'they won't let me use the image.'  People's businesses and personal finances are at stake here.  I'm sure there's a Chinese company that doesn't give a **** about use, but then there's still the distribution of said product, putting any seller at risk as well.

Totally sucks.  I wanted me some more Fallout themed caps and for everyone to rejoice in the fun.  It's a risk cluster**** that could probably be avoided if companies weren't so willing to sue over the use of their images.  Greed is inherent in the American Capitalist Economy, if you can't tell.

Offline Dernubenfrieken

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #279 on: Thu, 01 October 2015, 14:29:22 »
Bought these from the last GB. Had never played or bought Fallout but was interested in it, but can't give this company any money after they stomped on this.

They didn't stomp. They just didn't give a nod to my use of their rightful logo. We are all free to vote with our wallets, but this should not make anyone decide not to enjoy their products. I will still produce Vault # keys as well as other designs yet to be discovered...please give Bethesda a break.

Yup, it's not really their fault. There's a massive gap between "We'll sue you if you use our stuff!" and "We won't give permission to use our stuff explicitly because that sets a precedent that can be taken advantage of". SP is forcing designers to do something nigh on impossible, just to cover their asses in case a company gets upset. This is actually brought on by their new design for the way they want to run PMK, so they can sell sets for money after any GB...

If you want to boycott somebody because of this, boycott SP (particularly PMK), not Bethesda.

Let's put this into some perspective, please.  SP is a very small company based out of a very small town in remote Washington state.  The fact they are still able to make a business off of POS keysets gives us the opportunity to make our own runs of keys.

Consider they have limited machines that not only need care and maintenance, but cost $10,000s of dollars to replace.  Dies aren't cheap and neither is the cost of keeping employees running these machines.  Procuring plastics in such a wide range of colors and keeping them in the workflow process must be a bear of a task in and of its self.

Now, imagine running this niche company and all of the sudden someone is asking you to produce copyrighted materials.  Say, Mickey Mouse, Bart Simpson, the Game of Thrones house symbols, Sonic the Hedgehog, or Vault Boy?  Are you willing to risk your business for the risk of being sued for not licensing the product?

Totally agree, and the extra exposure from Massdrop and bigger keysets definitely have them thinking "why bother" when it comes to issues like this. They're already completely backed up, they might as well take orders that aren't so risky.
    

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: [GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)
« Reply #280 on: Thu, 01 October 2015, 14:39:12 »
Bought these from the last GB. Had never played or bought Fallout but was interested in it, but can't give this company any money after they stomped on this.

They didn't stomp. They just didn't give a nod to my use of their rightful logo. We are all free to vote with our wallets, but this should not make anyone decide not to enjoy their products. I will still produce Vault # keys as well as other designs yet to be discovered...please give Bethesda a break.

Yup, it's not really their fault. There's a massive gap between "We'll sue you if you use our stuff!" and "We won't give permission to use our stuff explicitly because that sets a precedent that can be taken advantage of". SP is forcing designers to do something nigh on impossible, just to cover their asses in case a company gets upset. This is actually brought on by their new design for the way they want to run PMK, so they can sell sets for money after any GB...

If you want to boycott somebody because of this, boycott SP (particularly PMK), not Bethesda.

Let's put this into some perspective, please.  SP is a very small company based out of a very small town in remote Washington state.  The fact they are still able to make a business off of POS keysets gives us the opportunity to make our own runs of keys.

Consider they have limited machines that not only need care and maintenance, but cost $10,000s of dollars to replace.  Dies aren't cheap and neither is the cost of keeping employees running these machines.  Procuring plastics in such a wide range of colors and keeping them in the workflow process must be a bear of a task in and of its self.

Now, imagine running this niche company and all of the sudden someone is asking you to produce copyrighted materials.  Say, Mickey Mouse, Bart Simpson, the Game of Thrones house symbols, Sonic the Hedgehog, or Vault Boy?  Are you willing to risk your business for the risk of being sued for not licensing the product?

I'm sure if someone wanted to put up money and license the images from Bethesda, there wouldn't be an issue.

Obviously Zero won't take on the risk, or he'd sign the contract he was asked to sign. It's not as easy as, 'they won't let me use the image.'  People's businesses and personal finances are at stake here.  I'm sure there's a Chinese company that doesn't give a **** about use, but then there's still the distribution of said product, putting any seller at risk as well.

Totally sucks.  I wanted me some more Fallout themed caps and for everyone to rejoice in the fun.  It's a risk cluster**** that could probably be avoided if companies weren't so willing to sue over the use of their images.  Greed is inherent in the American Capitalist Economy, if you can't tell.

For the record, I was never asked to sign a contract. But, you are absolutely correct, I won't sign one because at the end of the day, it is not worth it. I have my own designs without worrying about infringing upon someone else's. My course, as it stands is to walk away from anything that is not merely fair use. Vault keys are fair use.

There is fun to be had for sure, just not with Nuka Cola or Lucky 38...and on this note, I am closing the subject and locking this thread. Thanks for all your support, and I look forward to the next Vault keycap group buy coming soon... :thumb:
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