Author Topic: [IC] F62+F77! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards  (Read 376912 times)

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Offline Data

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 13 July 2015, 15:40:48 »
How difficult would it be to make cherry MX compatible stems for this? I'd like a hhkb style layout with the fn key. Why not make a modern version of the classic.

Supposedly Matt3o has already made some.  That was before my time here, so I don't really know much about them.  I'd pretty much have to source some before I could use a board like this.

Offline 0100010

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 13 July 2015, 23:03:24 »
Would say keep the standard F62 barrel positions.  Function can be handled by holding Space, splitting right (opposite of HHKB though) or left shift (ISO), or in between Ctrl / Alt on either side, or in place of Caps Lock.
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Offline Vizir

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 13 July 2015, 23:56:27 »
Function can be handled by holding Space
terrible idea. holding space should insert multiple spaces. would you like if I replaced you A so that keeping it pressed would make it function like a CTRL? no. there's a reason keys have repeat.

splitting right (opposite of HHKB though)
splitting right is exactly what it should be. the right shift is big enough, as it is.

left shift (ISO)
left shift doesn't need fixing.

in between Ctrl / Alt on either side
this is a possibility, but requires another layout to learn. the right shift is HUGE. why not just make it a little smaller?

in place of Caps Lock.
another possibility... but that can be handled in the firmware.

overall, i think adding another key to the right shift only adds to more possible key combinations.

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #53 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 00:08:02 »
I thought we just established that these were going to be recreations? I vote for keeping the original plate and PCB layouts for the initial run, at least.

Offline FrostyToast

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #54 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 09:16:37 »
I thought we just established that these were going to be recreations? I vote for keeping the original plate and PCB layouts for the initial run, at least.

While that is true you can easily have an option for both to my knowledge. A left stemmed 1.75u key (aka caps lock) and a 1u key would still be able to fit on the same barrels that the right shift would occupy. All that needs changing is an extra spot on the PCB for another switch.
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Offline Ellipse

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 10:48:45 »
For those who want the HHKB right fn key style:

Is it OK to use a stepped caps lock style key and a 1U function key in place of the right shift key?  There will be an extra pad on my PCB so you can split the right shift key.

Offline Vizir

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 12:40:44 »
You're suggesting a stepped key due to issues with stabs?

Offline AKmalamute

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 13:54:25 »
Here's an off the wall idea. Let's say I want to build a BS ergodox. Can I use this GB to spread the pain of construction out a bit?

 In other words, let's say I buy about 100 barrels -- only. The remaining parts to make a working keyboard would be (I'm a bit unfamiliar with BS innards so help me if I'm missing something):

  • plate(s) in SS. Could be laser cut by local shop. Y'know, after the .dxf is made.
  • PCB, redesigned to accept BS flippers as the connector. Any PCB fab, or are they "weird" ?
  • a uController. (Like, any controller? or will I have to buy into that long dead GB for capacitive controllers?)

If I could make my own keyboard that way, I'd like to buy so BS parts. Does that include the spring, or does that normally come with the keycap? I don't see a picture of a spring in this IC but I assume the barrel has three parts : flipper, outer barrel, and inner spring.

 Clue me in if I'm way off base here.

HHKB-lite2, Dvorak user

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 14:40:49 »
OK so the F62 will be available in two options:  one regular one identical to the original F62 layout and another option with 1.75 + 1u arrangement with the 1u fn key on the right barrel of the right shift key, like the HHKB style.  The PCBs may be more money (lower volume - maybe I can get them to treat it like the regular F62 since no components are in different places except one pair of pads).  I will keep everyone posted.  It is just a matter of adjusting their tooling for the top inner assembly and making a slightly different PCB. 

Vizir -1.75u keys only come in stepped, with a few rare exceptions like a Japanese layout Model M.  Unicomp only sells the nonstepped 1.75u key as part of the full Japanese key set from what I was told.

AK - loose barrels and flippers/springs may be available 6 months or so from now.  They should be around $1 per flipper/spring/barrel combination in bulk.  Anyone interested in doing another project down the line should PM me - if there are a number of projects I may not have enough barrels left for more than a few keyboards and then you would be out of luck if you need them (unless you ripped up an old model F 122 or AT).

You need the top/bottom inner assembly, xwhatsit controller, capacitive PCB, mylar sheet, and case. 

Offline AKmalamute

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 15:52:24 »
AK - loose barrels and flippers/springs may be available 6 months or so from now.  They should be around $1 per flipper/spring/barrel combination in bulk.  Anyone interested in doing another project down the line should PM me - if there are a number of projects I may not have enough barrels left for more than a few keyboards and then you would be out of luck if you need them

What I was really asking, was if you would consider adjusting the order form. Rather than buying leftovers, I want in on the GB. I could buy the barrels now, which won't help spread your cost for the plates / cases down any but you wouldn't have to spend too much ordering extras that never get used. I could do that, instead.  :))

HHKB-lite2, Dvorak user

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 16:24:49 »
Yes 100 or so barrels and flippers should be fine.  PM me once I start taking orders.

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 16:43:17 »
I like the idea of being able to order extra parts, because all moving parts are a point of future failure for these as well as all of the vintage Model F boards. Fortunately the barrels and flippers have proven very durable, but nobody has made any for 30+ years now and they will eventually start to wear out. Maybe you could offer barrel/flipper/spring combos in 25-packs as an ad-on to orders (or an alternative to orders, as the case may be)?

Offline 0100010

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 16:52:30 »
IF you are going to have two PCB and barrel plate layouts built (for original F62 and HHKB style), for the HHKB style I would suggest to split the right shift into a 1.25x and 1.5x keys, versus 1.75x and 1x.  Reason being all of the 1.75x keys from Unicomp are stepped.

EDIT : Like this -

« Last Edit: Tue, 14 July 2015, 16:55:44 by 0100010 »
  Quoting me causes a posting error that you need to ignore.

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 17:09:09 »
That seems like a good idea for those who want the mod.
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 July 2015, 17:11:59 by Techno Trousers »

Offline Vizir

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 20:21:01 »
hmm, i like that idea of 1.25 and 1.5 split. i don't want to be an ass and make this any more complicated, but what do you think of a split spacebar or JP hhkb style space and extra keys on each side?

also, Ellipse, I was one of the people who bought one of the xwhatsit's model f controllers group buys which you did. would that controller work? is the new controller any different? i still have mine saved up for the ever elusive kishsaver, perhaps I can use it on this.

Offline Air tree

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 20:25:15 »
How long should I have to put away some money for this? I'm balancing budgets between the mira and this and classic beige...  :'(

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 20:43:18 »
Vizir - the xwhatsit Model F controller is included - it is attached to the capacitive PCB like on the IBM XT keyboard.  I wasn't planning on adding other pads or complicating things further for this project - it is already too expensive!

Air tree - hopefully these will ship around the end of August - that could be too ambitious though.

0100010 - there is a debate going on over on DT and GH over 1.75 + 1u vs. 1.5 + 1.25u - I'll need some more feedback from those who want to buy the HHKB variation which one they prefer.  Right now the preference is 1.75 stepped +1u

Good idea Techno - extra parts of varying quantity will likely be available.
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 July 2015, 20:45:59 by Ellipse »

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 20:54:41 »
Just wondering, but how are you handling the spacebar situation?

Because some may not know, F space bars are different and not compatible with M space bars.  They will actuate the flipper the same, but they are totally different stabilizers.  With F being between the plates, and M being above the plate.  Plus, some also may not know, Unicomp does NOT make F style space bars.  To my knowledge nobody does.
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Offline Ellipse

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 21:03:54 »
Melvang - there are at least two types of Model F spacebars - I believe you are referring to the XT and AT variation.

There is another Model F spacebar that is similar to a Model M spacebar but it has a thinner stabilizer wire.

This project will work with Model M spacebars with no modification required.  Instead of the plastic holders for the spacebar on the F107s and such, there will be two U-shaped steel tabs epoxied to the correct place on the top inner assembly.  The steel tabs have been designed to secure a Model M spacebar stabilizer wire.  These should ensure a much more durable spacebar stabilizer post than the original brittle plastic.

If you want, you should be able to use a Model F spacebar and its stabilizer wire with a little plastic tube added, kind of like a reverse wcass spacebar stabilizer mod (not an XT or AT style spacebar which will not work with this project).

Offline Karura

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 21:17:19 »
Does anyone have a photo of the 1.75 stepped? There is no way to create a 1.75 non-stepped right shift?

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Offline Ellipse

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 21:19:26 »
1.75 stepped is just like a caps lock key.  The non-stepped 1.75 key is not in production by unicomp unless you buy a full Japanese key cap set.

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 21:35:21 »
Oh yeah, the steel space bar tabs! Please offer those a la carte too, if you can. I'd like to buy about 10 of them.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 21:42:56 »
OK I will make extras so you can replace them on your other Model F's.

Offline dfj

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 00:14:57 »
Ellipse :
  I wish you lots of success with this - but I want to pass on a few risks I see, as the little bit I can do to ameliorate them.

  I have a large stash of parts accumulated over the years, so I'm set, personally. For everyone else, however, I'd love to see progress against many of the challenges you are facing this summer.

The flippies, keystems and springs are some parts of the F keyboards that people have had trouble replicating.

  I find Unicomp's single-piece keys do not so much replicate the feel of the original single piece IBM keys as found on the XT/AT/bigfoot/4077s, though the difference between them and the two piece model M's is not troubling to me, since I prefer one-piece. This is very irritating for me, since I would love to be able to source new keys for fun F builds.

  The barrels are likely to be successful fast, as they are relatively flexible tolerance simple molds and are not picky about plastic, so long as it slides well with old PBT and whatever Unicomp is currently using. In a pinch, unicomp barrel-plates can be chopped up, but I seriously doubt this will be needed.

  I'm glad you are reducing risk on the case-side with CNC - reduces options for bulk cost reduction, but makes it way more likely a nice case will be available soon within the cost window.

  No-one I know has successfully replicated the flippies, whether in resin, home IM, or whatever - nevermind with conducting material to get a working one that both flips well and also scans well with minimal bounce. I don't even know if they require a minimum resistance to reduce ringing - conductive plastics can be much lower resistance now than 30-40 years ago in the F/beamspring era. Bit of fiddling with a scope testing some some fiddled keys could likely answer this part. I can't tell from your image of the flippie (IBM called them capacitive flip-plates) to what degree you have replicated IBM's work, as only the topside is shown in the rendering above.
  So - I feel you need to make sure your model *flips* well, and you need to also confirm it scans and bounces nicely. A nicely behaved F switch has a single, short 1.5ms bounce at the front for the make,  imo. The release is smooth and clean, generates a simple near linear signal on break.
  I guess I'm trying to warn that it might take a few more tries than one might consider reasonable to get all the variables playing nicely with each other. If your time and personal energy hold out - many of the problems that surprise you can be managed without huge amounts of additional cash - but it will take time. If you stick it out, ultimately, they will ship.
  Luckily some risk amelioration can be had for those who can source an old XT or 122 as a stopgap - lots of handy parts in there. The 4704 case is currently unobtanium, regardless of price - pcb is a little fiddly, but copying the original exactly is an option.
  Effective springs can be had by swapping out from unicomp flippies - they aren't the same strength, but they are made to sufficiently close tolerances, so work fine. Slight feel difference, but not one I mind, personally.

  I see the biggest risk - and the biggest win, with the case. The other dependencies are less risky, or less important, imo.

  I'd love to see working flippies though - I see them as a bit risky, but totally hope you get them working well so that the community has an arbitrary supply going forward. : )

Bestest Lucks!
dfj


 
 


 
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 July 2015, 20:35:48 by dfj »
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Offline 0100010

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 07:42:36 »
Vizir - take a look at this thread : http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/ibm-model-f-62-and-f-107-mod-ideas-t9324-60.html

The PCB template wcass had drawn up for the Rev3 F62 there, supported several configs for the bottom row.
  Quoting me causes a posting error that you need to ignore.

Offline Vizir

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 08:31:25 »
Edit: dupe post
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 July 2015, 14:31:01 by Vizir »

Offline Vizir

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 08:32:34 »
Vizir - take a look at this thread : http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/ibm-model-f-62-and-f-107-mod-ideas-t9324-60.html

The PCB template wcass had drawn up for the Rev3 F62 there, supported several configs for the bottom row.
Very cool. Is that PCB design being used in this project?

Offline 0100010

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 08:57:03 »
Not currently - but I would support it.  The bottom row options alone would make it worth it :

1.5 - 1 - 1.5 - 7 - 1.5 - 1 - 1.5 (standard 103 key Model F / Unicomp layout)
1 - 1.5 - 7 - 1.5 - 1 (HHKB-ish)
1.5 - 1 - 1.5 - 2.75 - 1.5 - 2.75 - 1.5 - 1 - 1.5 (split spacebar using Code keys)

Right shift is still optional though : normal 2.75x, split 1.75x + 1x or 1.5x + 1.25x.

Added image :

« Last Edit: Wed, 15 July 2015, 09:20:11 by 0100010 »
  Quoting me causes a posting error that you need to ignore.

Offline Vizir

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 19:40:53 »
Yes, I'm also in support for having more points on the PCB for additional keys. But it is up to Ellipse to finally decide where to stop ;)

The additional keys would make this an end game keyboard tho.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 20:49:03 »
Vizir - for now I expect to have 3 versions of the keyboards - F77, F62 standard, and F62 with 1.75u + 1u right shift. 

Offline Vizir

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #80 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 21:00:34 »
Sounds great.

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #81 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 21:17:44 »
Just wondering and a suggestion.

Are the barrels going to be XT or AT style.  And would it be possible to have plates cut to support both vintage and the new barrel?
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Offline Ellipse

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #82 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 22:00:48 »
They will be AT style.  I am making the barrels too, as the intent of the project is to make it from all new parts. 

Has anyone tried cutting off the XT barrel posts to make them fit inside an AT/F122 or other angled barrel connector keyboard?

Offline iamtootallforthis

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #83 on: Fri, 17 July 2015, 07:21:06 »
I am really looking forward to this board. I am still undecided though as to which one to get.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #84 on: Fri, 17 July 2015, 17:20:44 »
Get both ;D

I also plan on making extra foam inserts so that even if the foam wears out after a decade or so of usage, you can have a pre-cut spare handy.

Offline kirkvomit

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #85 on: Sun, 19 July 2015, 10:29:52 »
What controller will it use? Will it be possible to install TMK software on it?

Offline Vizir

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #86 on: Sun, 19 July 2015, 10:40:38 »
xwhatsits controller. It has its own firmware. Not sure if tmk supports it right now, but I'm sure it could be done.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #87 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 16:40:05 »
What are the advantages of TMK over xwhatsit and vice versa?

Offline Spopepro

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #88 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 17:35:55 »
What are the advantages of TMK over xwhatsit and vice versa?

Hasu's work (TMK) is really, really good and remarkably flexible.  It's about as pleasurable as can be for working with a firmware.  But xwhatit's is perfectly fine.  It's not as flexible, but doesn't need to be.

But it's moot, isn't it?  TMK doesn't have the capsense part to control the thresholds and the electronic stuff.

Offline AKmalamute

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #89 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 18:38:20 »
But it's moot, isn't it?  TMK doesn't have the capsense part

It didn't have the i2c stuff that the ergodox uses either. I bet a fork could be made.

Now, if only I could code my way out of a paper bag ...

HHKB-lite2, Dvorak user

Offline Vizir

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #90 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 23:31:21 »
I'm sure if someone makes a capsense module for tmk, it'll get added to the official repository. I think HaaTa's kiibohd firmware got the capsense support quite recently.

Offline Spopepro

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #91 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 23:43:13 »
I'm sure if someone makes a capsense module for tmk, it'll get added to the official repository. I think HaaTa's kiibohd firmware got the capsense support quite recently.

I can't find anything in the repo that indicates this. It is hard for me to imagine someone taking the time to do this since it's not just the firmware, but the calibration software and other maintenance tools specific to capacitive switches.


Offline Spopepro

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #93 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 00:04:13 »
Yes, that thread left off a year ago with "I have some arm ideas" and references a dead repo. It's not listed as an active project on kiibohd.com.

Look, I really like TMK, but not enough to fork it. Xwhatsit's solution is good. Is there something in TMK that you feel like the xwhatsit firmware needs? It would probably be easier to port the feature that way, rather than the other way around.

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #94 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 00:33:58 »
Xwhatsit controllers are well tested and solid for Model F and beamspring conversions. I don't really see any reason to reinvent the wheel on this one.

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #95 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 00:56:29 »
Xwhatsit controllers are well tested and solid for Model F and beamspring conversions. I don't really see any reason to reinvent the wheel on this one.

This is very true.  I have used them a couple times. 

Though I think an option for either mini or micro USB connector would be nice.  Personally I feel that mini is a bit easier to fine cheaper in longer lengths than micro. 

And I feel that Layer indicator LED should be a possible output in the expansion port.  I mean how often do we use Num Lock or Scroll Lock for the indicators to be useful.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich

Offline AKmalamute

  • HHKB Scrub
  • Posts: 837
  • Location: Western WA, USA
Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #96 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 01:01:06 »
Xwhatsit controllers are well tested and solid for Model F and beamspring conversions. I don't really see any reason to reinvent the wheel on this one.

Possibly because you're not trying to reinvent the wheel. Remember, I'm wanting to make an ergonomic keyboard, not recreate the dinosaurs. The keyswitch was beautiful; the layout, I'm not willing to pay money for anymore.

HHKB-lite2, Dvorak user

Offline Vizir

  • Posts: 298
  • Location: Tulsa, OK
Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #97 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 13:03:24 »
Yes, that thread left off a year ago with "I have some arm ideas" and references a dead repo. It's not listed as an active project on kiibohd.com.

Look, I really like TMK, but not enough to fork it. Xwhatsit's solution is good. Is there something in TMK that you feel like the xwhatsit firmware needs? It would probably be easier to port the feature that way, rather than the other way around.
I didn't ask for tmk support or anything about forking tmk. Just stated that it could be done.

Offline alienman82

  • * Elevated Elder
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Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #98 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 14:30:09 »
I expressed interest in the form.  Thank you for doing this. 

Offline Ellipse

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1616
  • Location: New York
    • Brand New Model F Keyboards
Re: [IC] Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F's made this year
« Reply #99 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 15:02:35 »
Thanks Alien!  Glad you are interested.  When we get to the order stage, every order helps lower per unit costs. 

As an update, supplier negotiations for the full run are going well but prototyping is not as well for for a reasonable cost unit.  I was quoted as high as $1,800 by one place for a prototype of just the case for one of the two designs! 

Does anyone here have access to an inexpensive CNC mill for plastic and/or aluminum?  At least for the prototype.  Please PM me if you can help.
« Last Edit: Wed, 22 July 2015, 15:04:48 by Ellipse »