G's announcement (not relevant to most geeks)

[rootwyrm]

We're still trying to collect data for the spreadsheet so we can try and at least figure out what the hell was actually shipped. So far, out of the ones we've matched up?
Not only did they go to the wrong people, the actual contents are also consistently wrong. Promised items either incorrect or simply omitted or - hopefully - in some other shipment. At this point there is absolutely no reason to believe anyone will get what they paid for. I've also confirmed at this point that at least two keyboards were sold twice and the MJ1 with clears was sold three times! I haven't even started going through keycap sets.

That makes it even more important to make sure it gets into the spreadsheet. You can PM Skysophrenic (actual gdoc owner) or myself here. I'm going to be reaching out to a couple folks via PMs to get some additional information in (probably futile) hopes some of the items actually had multiples available.

[fohat.digs]

Just wanted to say that this was my fault,  and to lay the blame at my feet. 

You're the one who convinced Berserk's wife to move to a new house? Why'd ya do it?

[phosphoric]

Just wanted to say that this was my fault,  and to lay the blame at my feet. 

You're the one who convinced Berserk's wife to move to a new house? Why'd ya do it?

he thought he could get a good deal, but that obviously didn't happen

[demik]

did somebody srsly get a pack of cigs?

[Floody]

did somebody srsly get a pack of cigs?

He posted them on the freebies thread

[chuckdee]

Just wanted to say that this was my fault,  and to lay the blame at my feet. 

You're the one who convinced Berserk's wife to move to a new house? Why'd ya do it?

he thought he could get a good deal, but that obviously didn't happen

Not exactly what I meant- but that's certainly what G implied,  so why not go there? 

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

[mobbo]

What kind of cigs?

Weren't they already opened?

[rootwyrm]

Spreadsheet updated with more data culled from various places. At this point, we've confirmed the following items were without a question sold to multiple people:

• KBC Poker X - sold to 2
• KBT Race 75% - sold to 2 - confirmed sold Apr 25
• Corsair K95 "Old Glory" - sold to 2 - confirmed sold Apr 25
• Filco MJ1 fullsize, stock clears, PBT keycaps - sold to 3
• IBM Model M13 WOB keycap set - sold to 2 confirmed, possibly 3

These are items where there is 100% certainty that there was not enough quantity to cover the orders paid for, and there never was. It is of course, on the seller to ensure they have either sufficient quantity or accurately record that an item is no longer available. This clearly was not done for one reason or another. At this point it is a certainty that people have paid for items which not only did not ship, but could not have possibly been delivered. Some of these sales may have occurred after it was posted elsewhere that the item had sold.

Additional research has also identified the following potential problem sales.

• Any Filco SA profile keycaps sold or paid for after April 11
• IBM Model F122, ANSI mod, painted backplate after April 11
• Cherry G80-1950 NIB after April 11
• G80-11903 HRMUS after April 11
• Any Tai Hao keycaps after April 25
• All Filco keycaps sold after April 25

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit?usp=sharing

[fohat.digs]

Not that I expect my box for another month, but all that MX minutiae is over my head.

Are Filco key caps especially desirable?
 

[user 18]

Not that I expect my box for another month, but all that MX minutiae is over my head.

Are Filco key caps especially desirable?

I believe it's mostly just Filco sphericals that most are interested in, as they are a SA profile set, and that's popular right now. I suppose there might also be special interest in the front-print caps, as there aren't very many sources for those either (at least not that I'm aware of).

[mind_funeral]

Not that I expect my box for another month, but all that MX minutiae is over my head.

Are Filco key caps especially desirable?

I believe it's mostly just Filco sphericals that most are interested in, as they are a SA profile set, and that's popular right now. I suppose there might also be special interest in the front-print caps, as there aren't very many sources for those either (at least not that I'm aware of).

Even the Filco Sphericals aren't that hard to find.  They can be bought new for around 45 GBP.

[rootwyrm]

Not that I expect my box for another month, but all that MX minutiae is over my head.

Are Filco key caps especially desirable?

I believe it's mostly just Filco sphericals that most are interested in, as they are a SA profile set, and that's popular right now. I suppose there might also be special interest in the front-print caps, as there aren't very many sources for those either (at least not that I'm aware of).

Anything to do with keycaps tends to be outside my area of expertise, save buckling spring 1pc/2pc. We managed to find a copy of the actual doc that was posted listing all the keycaps available though, thank gods - well, really, thank chuckdee! He found it. But it is a huge mess and the numbers are just flat out nuts.

The Filcos, he had 1 set of White on Brown SA Profile TKL, 3 sets of TKL stock, and 1 set of ANSI fullsize. Because the photos were deleted to destroy evidence, I don't know if these were front print or not.

Some of the other stuff though is just insane. DSA PBT blanks, he claims he had "41 set" of red blanks, "42 set" of white blanks, "a few numpad sets" and "a lot of misc or novelty". The list is still nowhere near complete either - for example, it's missing the DCS blank sets. I was told those had already been sold when I asked about them. Those do not appear anywhere on the PDF, but were definitely in the original sale post.

[fohat.digs]

I guess my concern is that I might get something and not recognize it for something that somebody else might really care about. And if I opened a box and found that 500 loose MX caps had been used as filler, I don't know that I would have the patience to examine and categorize each one.

No problem telling the difference between types of plastic and legend techniques, but all those distinctions with "profiles" can get pretty arcane. And that this pairing of colors is common and cheap while that pairing of colors is highly desirable and valuable is not what I have ever paid attention to, beyond occasionally thinking "oh, those look good" such as cream cheese and chives or coffee/chocolate.

[Tyr]

Are Filco key caps especially desirable?

The stock (non SA) filco keycaps are pretty crappy. I ordered a set because I also ordered a Filco TKL keyboard kit and since he was getting rid of the original keycaps for like $5 I might as well get them to put on there when I'm not using it with a nice set.
I don't think anyone will be crying because their filco set didn't come.

[chuckdee]

In case anyone needs them for their claims:

Keyset document: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j2ixerc8dp09vr2/Keycaps%20sublist.pdf?dl=1

Model M document: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dbsihs7dbqt9njl/Model%20M%20Model%20F%20Vintage%20Alps%20Keyboards%20sublist.pdf?dl=1

I converted the word document to PDFs to (a) make them more accessible, and (b) preserve the original text in a harder to edit format.

[[Lewynlight]]

I'm one of those ppl who ordered those taihaos and filco. Yeah, and i ordered those filco keycaps to replace my set which is already dirty/faded.
Well, i don't really care about them anymore, as for now all that i want to come to my door is my sp bumblebee, cherry wob grabbags and those dsa keycap grabbags.

Please be nice.. the problem is that my country's custom are so slow, it might be another month before i can confirm what i get. (Berserkfan never gave the tracking number to me, and i paid using WU as well.. shame on me)

[rootwyrm]

All keycaps and IBM keyboards from chuckdee's PDFs have been imported into the spreadsheet to ease tracking. (And helpfully illustrates that it is not all that hard to track if an item is sold or not. Get a message, put the name in.) Still looking for the other keyboard list.
For future confirmations, please see if you can match the item you purchased with it's ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION and the ID number on the spreadsheet. All of the item numbers are the same as beserk used except for keycaps, which did not have item ID numbers. Because of the extremely poor tracking, there are missing items that were in the thread but NOT in the documents we have.

That spreadsheet, once again:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit?usp=sharing

[chuckdee]

Mine are already there, but possibly update them to say Massdrop Granite in each description to make things clearer.

[rootwyrm]

Mine are already there, but possibly update them to say Massdrop Granite in each description to make things clearer.

Yup. For Keycaps there are TWO item IDs. When we know there are multiple different sets or pieces (e.g. Granite, Scarface, etc) there will be a "KC" ID for the description. Then there will be a "UKC" number which identifies the set piece.
Granites are "KC3" - then under that you would have a UKC number as well. So as an example, someone who ordered a Granite Common Kit and numpad would have:
1x UKC1 - $PAID - Granite numpad
1x UKC2 - $PAID - Granite Common Kit

Also note that because prices were reduced or changed significantly over the course of even individual transactions (so much for that screaming about lowballing) there are huge discrepancies. There are keyboards listed at over $200 that went for less than half that, while others received less drastic cuts. If at all possible, please let us know what you actually paid so that we can mark these correctly. It is vitally important to do so, because this is the best counter to claims that the items are worth utterly absurd values. (If an item didn't sell at $300, but did at $100, then it's only worth $100.)

[chuckdee]

I posted the updates, to hopefully help cross-reference them, with proof in PM's.

[shrubkeys]

All keycaps and IBM keyboards from chuckdee's PDFs have been imported into the spreadsheet to ease tracking. (And helpfully illustrates that it is not all that hard to track if an item is sold or not. Get a message, put the name in.) Still looking for the other keyboard list.

Uploaded the other keyboard list.

[chuckdee]

So, wanted to start some comments on this option- I was thinking about filing with the Internet Crime Complaint Center, but wasn't sure if I wanted to go this far at this time.  What is the Internet Crime Complaint Center?

However, you can still file a report online through the Internet Crime Complaint Center, or IC3.
 
The IC3 was established as a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C) to serve as a means to receive Internet related criminal complaints.
 
The IC3 accepts online Internet crime complaints from either the actual victim or from a third party to the complainant. They will process your complaint if they receive accurate and complete information from you. When filing a complaint, provide the following information:
Your name
Your mailing address
Your telephone number
The name, address, telephone number, and Web address, if available, of the individual or organization you believe defrauded you.
Specific details on how, why, and when you believe you were defrauded.
Any other relevant information you believe is necessary to support your complaint.
 
You can file a complaint with the IC3 at www.ic3.gov.

The shipping complaints, are, though annoying, apparently just erroneous and negligent, rather than fraud.

But based on the fact that no orders are complete and/or correct from the information that we have, and the double selling, this is looking more and more like fraud.  And with his response, it makes it a bit harder to swallow.  But, even with that, I still hesitate to file this kind of complaint.

What do others (affected and non-affected) think about this recourse?

[shrubkeys]

What do others (affected and non-affected) think about this recourse?

Be my guest, but it seems awfully...silly. This is waaaaay below the threshhold of what the FBI is interested in. Not to mention the fact that items were shipped from Singapore, where the FBI has no jurisdiction.

[Floody]

This thread went from someone getting cigarettes to calling the FBI

[romevi]

FBI? They're not going to give two craps about this.

[chuckdee]

What do others (affected and non-affected) think about this recourse?

Be my guest, but it seems awfully...silly. This is waaaaay below the threshhold of what the FBI is interested in. Not to mention the fact that items were shipped from Singapore, where the FBI has no jurisdiction.

If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO.  And why do you think it's below what they are interested in?  Do you see a limit somewhere?  And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.

[romevi]

What do others (affected and non-affected) think about this recourse?

Be my guest, but it seems awfully...silly. This is waaaaay below the threshhold of what the FBI is interested in. Not to mention the fact that items were shipped from Singapore, where the FBI has no jurisdiction.

If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO.  And why do you think it's below what they are interested in?  Do you see a limit somewhere?  And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.

Because PayPal doesn't want to deal with it.

[rootwyrm]

The shipping complaints, are, though annoying, apparently just erroneous and negligent, rather than fraud.

But based on the fact that no orders are complete and/or correct from the information that we have, and the double selling, this is looking more and more like fraud.  And with his response, it makes it a bit harder to swallow.  But, even with that, I still hesitate to file this kind of complaint.

What do others (affected and non-affected) think about this recourse?

At this point, it is absolutely wrong to rule out deliberate fraud. In fact, we just keep finding more and more red flags. A quick analysis of the pricing from the posts in mid-April and the actual sale prices show that many supposedly high value, high dollar items? Were sold for pennies on the dollar. Several examples:

- KBT Pure priced at $200, sold $100 (50%)
- Ducky Shine 3 priced at $150, sold $70 (46%)
- IBM M13 TrackPoint II black MaxiSwitch, sold at $100 - if in good working condition, easily $250 on eBay
- IBM Model F XT teensied priced at $90, sold for $65 TWICE - 72% of list from buyers, 144% of ask paid for it
- IBM "Bigfoot", asked $60, given for free to two people

Many sales were well, well below the initial or even current asking price. There are plenty of legitimate explanations for this and it's perfectly reasonable to lower the price of something if it's not selling or to entice a seller to buy more for completely aboveboard reasons. ("Buy two M122's, get a third one free!" Or "I'll give you X for 30% off because then you get the next flat-rate shipping tier.") There are also plenty of legitimate reasons to throw a bunch of free crap in a box - like if you're just going to throw it out otherwise and it's flat-rate shipping.
However, there's no guarantee that it isn't like the stuff that "just fell off the back of a truck" or the iPad box with a brick scam. Knock the price down till the seller can't refuse, knowing full well they're just buying an empty box. We also have an inexplicable situation where certain boxes went literal slow boat from China with no tracking, while others got express shipping - seemingly independent of weight. To say nothing of the "local" sales where despite regular claims of problems with local buyers, only two locals have been found so far and both were shipped their packages.
And I will reiterate that we STILL only have a total of 2 keyboards reported as received. This is out of 21 confirmed keyboard sales so far. That's right - at least 21 complete keyboards were sold. If we go by how many times keyboards were paid for, it's at least 30 - so far.

It is too early to call criminal act versus epic incompetence. But we are nowhere near being able to rule out deliberate fraud either.

Also, the prices and items in the various documents uploaded by helpful folks are way the hell off. I'm not talking "a little bit" or "knocked price down $10." I mean there are paid for and received items that never appeared in any of the docs I've reviewed yet, there are price differences of hundreds of dollars, and quantities specified don't line up within the documents themselves. This could be because items were sold and removed, it could be because of typos, there's no way of knowing for certain.

[kekman]

so at what point do we file a claim for fraud? If we never receive anything and we don't have a tracking number, we can never prove that the items were never sent out and are just stuck in some shipping facility halfway across the world.

I'm going to check whether moneygram shows if your money has been received once my internet gets fixed tonight.

[rootwyrm]

so at what point do we file a claim for fraud? If we never receive anything and we don't have a tracking number, we can never prove that the items were never sent out and are just stuck in some shipping facility halfway across the world.

I'm going to check whether moneygram shows if your money has been received once my internet gets fixed tonight.

The best way for right now is to follow these steps:

• Get your order on the spreadsheet - start by checking if there's an ITEM ID associated under the category tabs
• Go to the Edits, Comments here tab and put "Ordered", your username, what type of item, how many, and what you paid for each excluding shipping. One item per row please!
• Screenshot any PMs and payment confirmation if available, remove personal information, and PM it Skysophrenic or myself so we can move your order to confirmed.
• Review the spreadsheet to see if your items appear on the Ordered or Received sections

Neither Skysophrenic nor I are lawyers, yadda, not legal advice, etcetera. However, if you have no tracking number and have not received the package in a reasonable amount of time or you paid via a method with a limited window in which to make a claim or which is difficult to file a claim with, you should consider filing a claim simply stating that you have received neither the item you paid for nor any tracking number. Remember that if you DO get your items, you can usually cancel or close a dispute as resolved to your satisfaction - and if the order is wrong, you can update it to say that as well. Do NOT cancel disputes until after you have opened the package and confirmed whether or not the order is correct no matter what!

[shrubkeys]

If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO.  And why do you think it's below what they are interested in?  Do you see a limit somewhere?  And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.

You've convinced me. In fact, we've not gone far enough. I've just filed fraud reports with MI6, Interpol, the Better Business Bureau, the ATF, the CIA, CSI, IBM and IFTTT. Who wants to write him a bad review on Yelp?

[Darkshado]

It's way too soon to proceed with police complaints IMHO.

Many, myself included, are still waiting for their shipments and the advertised timeframes for that still have weeks before they're over.

[HoffmanMyster]

If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO.  And why do you think it's below what they are interested in?  Do you see a limit somewhere?  And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.

You've convinced me. In fact, we've not gone far enough. I've just filed fraud reports with MI6, Interpol, the Better Business Bureau, the ATF, the CIA, CSI, IBM and IFTTT. Who wants to write him a bad review on Yelp?

Do we really need to get condescending and sarcastic in this thread?  There's no harm in reporting this to anyone.  Sure, it might be in vain, but in that case perhaps a polite reminder or heads up of that fact is more appropriate.

[shrubkeys]

If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO.  And why do you think it's below what they are interested in?  Do you see a limit somewhere?  And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.

You've convinced me. In fact, we've not gone far enough. I've just filed fraud reports with MI6, Interpol, the Better Business Bureau, the ATF, the CIA, CSI, IBM and IFTTT. Who wants to write him a bad review on Yelp?

Do we really need to get condescending and sarcastic in this thread?  There's no harm in reporting this to anyone.  Sure, it might be in vain, but in that case perhaps a polite reminder or heads up of that fact is more appropriate.

Okay - in all fairness, I thought I did give him a polite heads-up. The first time he suggested the IC3.

But you are also correct that it was inappropriate of me to be patronizing just because he didn't immediately come around to my way of thinking. Apologies, all - and to chuckdee in particular. And if you do manage to get berserkfan a bad Yelp review, you have my mad respect.

[chuckdee]

If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO.  And why do you think it's below what they are interested in?  Do you see a limit somewhere?  And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.

You've convinced me. In fact, we've not gone far enough. I've just filed fraud reports with MI6, Interpol, the Better Business Bureau, the ATF, the CIA, CSI, IBM and IFTTT. Who wants to write him a bad review on Yelp?

Do we really need to get condescending and sarcastic in this thread?  There's no harm in reporting this to anyone.  Sure, it might be in vain, but in that case perhaps a polite reminder or heads up of that fact is more appropriate.

Okay - in all fairness, I thought I did give him a polite heads-up. The first time he suggested the IC3.

But you are also correct that it was rude of me to be patronizing just because he didn't immediately come around to my way of thinking. Apologies, all - and to chuckdee in particular. And if you do manage to get berserkfan a bad Yelp review, you have my mad respect.

I was just asking, because the PP rep included a reference to it when they talked to me.  And referred to where it was in every correspondence.  It's not because they don't want to deal with it- they are.  But he was saying with the extent of it, we might want to consider it.  And he also said with the extent of it, it was very possible that Paypal would also, because a third party can file.

I was also asking because I thought all of us were in it and dealing with it as a community.  I guess I was naive in that respect.

But I also realized, with someone who was a lot nicer and more helpful than many of the people in the thread, that it was probably out of negative emotions that I've been trying to keep in check.  It feels bad to be taken advantage of, especially in this way.  It's even worse when the person posts what he did at the beginning of this thread, and responds to your inquiries in the way that he did (at least with me). 

And what's even worse is an insincere apology.  Adding that on top of the rudeness and the condescension.  But I guess you knew that, and that's why you did it.

No more discussion needed.  I would be sorry that I posted- except it did have good effects in other areas, so I guess it evens out.  Thanks all.

[HoffmanMyster]

If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO.  And why do you think it's below what they are interested in?  Do you see a limit somewhere?  And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.

You've convinced me. In fact, we've not gone far enough. I've just filed fraud reports with MI6, Interpol, the Better Business Bureau, the ATF, the CIA, CSI, IBM and IFTTT. Who wants to write him a bad review on Yelp?

Do we really need to get condescending and sarcastic in this thread?  There's no harm in reporting this to anyone.  Sure, it might be in vain, but in that case perhaps a polite reminder or heads up of that fact is more appropriate.

Okay - in all fairness, I thought I did give him a polite heads-up. The first time he suggested the IC3.

But you are also correct that it was inappropriate of me to be patronizing just because he didn't immediately come around to my way of thinking. Apologies, all - and to chuckdee in particular. And if you do manage to get berserkfan a bad Yelp review, you have my mad respect.

True, true.  I would just hate to see a thread like this which is already fairly non-positive devolve into victims tossing mud at each other, is all.    As for that Yelp review, we can only hope. 

[rootwyrm]

Okay folks, so, some new information has come to light in the past hour (no joke) and the spreadsheet has been updated.

TL;DR is this:
FILE YOUR DISPUTE OR CLAIM IMMEDIATELY. DO NOT WAIT FOR PACKAGES TO SHOW UP. THERE IS A 30 DAY WINDOW FOR MANY TRANSACTIONS.
IF YOU ARE ASKED TO FILE A POLICE REPORT BY YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY OR BANK, DO SO IMMEDIATELY.
I am comfortable stating authoritatively that there is absolutely no way that beserkfan can cover refunds or items even if his statements about setting aside $2000 for this were true.

$2,000 of refunds would not even cover 5 people. More than 40% of it would go to cover just two large orders. Now consider that for a moment - there are two people who spent more than $900. At the prices we have seen in the documents as opposed to what was paid, only one of them would get a full refund. That's not a math error either - according to the price sheet, it would have been nearly $1,000 before shipping. Consider that for a moment. Now do you think a neophyte is going to spend that kind of money on very specific items? Absolutely not. So yeah. There is not going to be any victim blaming tolerated from me, and there is no sympathy left either.
Nobody just "forgets" an order allegedly worth $1,000 before discounts, even in this mess. And they sure don't forget that they got payment for the same item from two people on pretty much the same day.

The victim shaming and the pointing and laughing is probably the biggest problem with getting people to report that they got screwed. That's absolutely unacceptable, period. And that's going to stop right the hell now. Skysophrenic and I have been working our asses off on this spreadsheet - which frankly, is why I've been cranky. That and all the "SUCKS TO BE YOU, I KNEW BETTER" gloating from people who quite bluntly, didn't know jack and simply didn't have the cash to buy what they wanted. You children got your giggles - now the adults are talking.

At this point, it is certain that more than $2,500USD was sent to beserkfan through various means. We still don't know how much people actually sent because they haven't posted or PM'd anyone to say "hey, I ordered X and paid $Y." There is no reason whatsoever not to do that unless you're hoping to get lucky with package roulette and cheat someone out of their stuff. In which case, you should expect a similar reception to what beserkfan is getting now.
Nobody is telling anyone what they do or don't have to do with what they receive - that is between the person who paid for it and Paypal or their bank, and the person who paid for it and the person who received it. To the extent I am able, I am happy to try and connect people if they can't find each other. Not going to mediate or get involved in more than 200 transactions because frankly, I do not have the time.
Regardless, to make the strongest possible case for ALL customers, we need to know exactly what was ordered, paid for, and roughly how much. That is the information we need from you, that we are assembling for everyone to use. Nobody wants or needs your personal information. Really! We don't! Seriously, I work with HIPAA enough thanks!

To date, a single person has received a single item they ordered, and that item was a set of free keycaps. We may end up needing to start whole new threads just to try and track what people are receiving. There are more than 200 keycap sets, and very nearly 200 keyboards. We have absolutely no idea if the items that were sold actually did ship in entirety, only part of them, or if what has been received is just red herrings. If you think you are getting what you ordered, I am sorry to say that so far the evidence indicates otherwise. And again, if you do, you can always cancel a dispute as resolved stating that you did ultimately receive the items. (And I would honestly hope that anyone who does would do so.)

But it is very likely only way you are going to get your money refunded if you do not get your items is if you file very soon. Again, I personally encourage people to include links or URLs for the evidence presented in this thread and in the spreadsheet in any dispute. These provide the clearest factual arguments that the seller was aware, stated they would not issue refunds on an arbitrary basis, does not intend to cooperate with victims, and that items were sold to multiple people repeatedly.

Hyperbole and trolling are not helpful, not needed, and not wanted. What we need is factual data - all the factual data we can get our hands on. If you talked with beserkfan and changed your mind on a buy, we want to hear from you. If you paid beserkfan money and are still waiting on shipping, we want to hear from you. If some mysterious package full of keboards from Singapore showed up at your door, we want to hear from you. At this point, we are focused on assisting people in recovering their money first and foremost - which means finding out how much was sold, how much it was sold for, how many times it was sold, and if the item ever showed up anywhere, and which items were never actually shipped despite being sold.
Connecting all these lost packages with their rightful owners is enough of an undertaking that it qualifies as an entirely separate project at this point.

[3K]

Regardless, to make the strongest possible case for ALL customers, we need to know exactly what was ordered, paid for, and roughly how much. That is the information we need from you, that we are assembling for everyone to use.

This is a list of my order:

• Model F 50 keys, teensied. (internal teensy, blank caps) - 70$
• Full set of Green on White Buckling Spring keycaps - 30$
• 6u DSA Space Bar - 2$
• Teensy 2.0, no pins - 14$

Set of small things - 20$ :

• Green dyed buckling spring keycaps
• solder wire
• sip sockets
• a white wrist rest

I were helped by Wodan as proxy, but I do not have a full list of his order ATM. Also my info is that the package did not arrive yet.

[katushkin]

I did think it was strange that he asked for a bank transfer for most of the money. LUL.

[chuckdee]

I did think it was strange that he asked for a bank transfer for most of the money. LUL.

Well,  after his problems with PayPal,  I didn't think that was automatically bad,  it's just that I wasn't going to do that no matter what. But it wasn't automatically a red flag for that reason I think.

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

[katushkin]

I did think it was strange that he asked for a bank transfer for most of the money. LUL.

Well,  after his problems with PayPal,  I didn't think that was automatically bad,  it's just that I wasn't going to do that no matter what. But it wasn't automatically a red flag for that reason I think.

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

I still think it is. There are plenty of other more secure ways to send money to people that gives you some sort of protection instead of throwing your money into a big hole hoping to get something back.

[chuckdee]

I did think it was strange that he asked for a bank transfer for most of the money. LUL.

Well,  after his problems with PayPal,  I didn't think that was automatically bad,  it's just that I wasn't going to do that no matter what. But it wasn't automatically a red flag for that reason I think.

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

I still think it is. There are plenty of other more secure ways to send money to people that gives you some sort of protection instead of throwing your money into a big hole hoping to get something back.

What are those, if you don't mind me asking?  I really don't like Paypal, but it's the easiest and most secure option I've been able to find.  I was using google wallet for a while, but then they decided to change it, and few places take it in and of itself.

[dgneo]

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82224.0

[chuckdee]

That's not how it works. And yes, I see now that Paypal ****ed up and marked it as Damaged. That is not how I filed it. I filed it as "WRONG ITEM" but apparently the site didn't take. Since I had no visibility into that, I had no idea. I've asked Paypal to correct it as part of the escalation. Nothing in the package was damaged, everything was well packed, and everything is still safe.
As it is, even if I reverse the charges, this is going to cost me money. Period. I have keycaps that need to go to their legal owner. I have a keyboard that somehow has to go to ****ing Sweden. This is not how I want to spend my weekend. It is not even in the same universe as what I want to be doing. Dealing with the angsty ragequitting BS from someone who refuses to accept responsibility for errors he already admitted he made? I do that enough at work. I have not one single desire to do it here.

Just wanted to let you, and anyone else that had problems uploading to their complaint know that I received a message from Paypal about it.

Type paypal.com/il/uploaddoc in your url. You should be able to send documentation that way. Be sure to reference your case number and name.

[dgneo]

I just checked, and find that I still have some things that were paid for by other people and never sent to them.

These are:

1)   keyboard that I owe Mike52787. Already agreed that I would paint the board for him over the next few weeks before sending

2)   Box of white on black Ducky Side Print keycaps. I was damned sure I sold these, and I still have them???!!!

3)   Brand new NIB sealed light green set of gateron thick PBT blank keycaps. Also damned sure I sold these already.

4)   100 brand new white PBT blank keycaps. I mistakenly double sold my 80 colored PBT grab bag, so I promised someone he would get these 100 brand new whites instead to do his own dyejobs. But who did I promise?

5)   I have a box of newish Ducky thick PBT keycaps. This was never listed for sale/ is a personal set. If you got screwed by an insufficient shipment please let me know and this can be sent to you.

6)   I have a set of new gray switches and new stems/springs I’m pretty sure were sold very early on. I can’t remember to whom I sold these.

7)   I still have a set of cherry PCB mounted stabilizers. Not sure if anyone is still owed one set. I’m convinced I sold all my Cherry stabs.

   I have a brand new orange silicon skin for Ducky Shine 3 Fullsize keyboards. Originally not listed for sale; meant to give to rootwyrm as a surprise freebie, but was left out of the Ducky Shines shipped to him via untracked sea mail. Since rootwyrm has filed paypal complaint, he will not get this.

9)   Am holding on to an empty G80-1950 box with the accessories (keycaps and cable) inside! Two people bought G80-1950s from me and they were supposed to be shipped in the boxes, but now I don’t have any G80-1950 and I have one empty box instead. I think the keyboard itself must have been stuffed in someone’s 10kg box or thrown away by accident.

10)   I still have a bunch of Model M and F cables. I thought I over promised them to anyone who wanted, and I still have these things!

11)   I remember a legit buyer wanted some of my Cherry keyboard trackball/ trackpad assemblies. I still have these!

12)   I don’t remember if I ever sold my Filco Fullsize kit. Do I owe anyone this kit?

13)   If I can still find things that have been sold/ promised to be given and were not shipped out I’ll post them.
 
14)   No more Big Items.


If you are owed any of these things, please contact me by PM. Just give your address; shipping is on me. Not going through my notes anymore which are a mess and not reliable. I’ll read PMs in a week.

Shipping:

I will ship by early June. Shipping by sea mail, untracked. May take 2-3 months. Don’t pester me to rush ship things or else mistakes may recur. The April-May period was horrible and the consequences are still reverberating.

I will take photos of the postal receipts, packaging and postmarks to prove that they were handed off at the post office.

Cross posting this, as he closed the other thread and erased the OP.

[[Lewynlight]]

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82224.0

I just checked, and find that I still have some things that were paid for by other people and never sent to them.

These are:

1)   keyboard that I owe Mike52787. Already agreed that I would paint the board for him over the next few weeks before sending

2)   Box of white on black Ducky Side Print keycaps. I was damned sure I sold these, and I still have them???!!!

3)   Brand new NIB sealed light green set of gateron thick PBT blank keycaps. Also damned sure I sold these already.

4)   100 brand new white PBT blank keycaps. I mistakenly double sold my 80 colored PBT grab bag, so I promised someone he would get these 100 brand new whites instead to do his own dyejobs. But who did I promise?

5)   I have a box of newish Ducky thick PBT keycaps. This was never listed for sale/ is a personal set. If you got screwed by an insufficient shipment please let me know and this can be sent to you.

6)   I have a set of new gray switches and new stems/springs I’m pretty sure were sold very early on. I can’t remember to whom I sold these.

7)   I still have a set of cherry PCB mounted stabilizers. Not sure if anyone is still owed one set. I’m convinced I sold all my Cherry stabs.

   I have a brand new orange silicon skin for Ducky Shine 3 Fullsize keyboards. Originally not listed for sale; meant to give to rootwyrm as a surprise freebie, but was left out of the Ducky Shines shipped to him via untracked sea mail. Since rootwyrm has filed paypal complaint, he will not get this.

9)   Am holding on to an empty G80-1950 box with the accessories (keycaps and cable) inside! Two people bought G80-1950s from me and they were supposed to be shipped in the boxes, but now I don’t have any G80-1950 and I have one empty box instead. I think the keyboard itself must have been stuffed in someone’s 10kg box or thrown away by accident.

10)   I still have a bunch of Model M and F cables. I thought I over promised them to anyone who wanted, and I still have these things!

11)   I remember a legit buyer wanted some of my Cherry keyboard trackball/ trackpad assemblies. I still have these!

12)   I don’t remember if I ever sold my Filco Fullsize kit. Do I owe anyone this kit?

13)   If I can still find things that have been sold/ promised to be given and were not shipped out I’ll post them.
 
14)   No more Big Items.


If you are owed any of these things, please contact me by PM. Just give your address; shipping is on me. Not going through my notes anymore which are a mess and not reliable. I’ll read PMs in a week.

Shipping:

I will ship by early June. Shipping by sea mail, untracked. May take 2-3 months. Don’t pester me to rush ship things or else mistakes may recur. The April-May period was horrible and the consequences are still reverberating.

I will take photos of the postal receipts, packaging and postmarks to prove that they were handed off at the post office.

Cross posting this, as he closed the other thread and erased the OP.

loled at that, this guy is really poor with problem solving.

[HoffmanMyster]

I just checked, and find that I still have some things that were paid for by other people and never sent to them.

These are:

1)   keyboard that I owe Mike52787. Already agreed that I would paint the board for him over the next few weeks before sending

2)   Box of white on black Ducky Side Print keycaps. I was damned sure I sold these, and I still have them???!!!

3)   Brand new NIB sealed light green set of gateron thick PBT blank keycaps. Also damned sure I sold these already.

4)   100 brand new white PBT blank keycaps. I mistakenly double sold my 80 colored PBT grab bag, so I promised someone he would get these 100 brand new whites instead to do his own dyejobs. But who did I promise?

5)   I have a box of newish Ducky thick PBT keycaps. This was never listed for sale/ is a personal set. If you got screwed by an insufficient shipment please let me know and this can be sent to you.

6)   I have a set of new gray switches and new stems/springs I’m pretty sure were sold very early on. I can’t remember to whom I sold these.

7)   I still have a set of cherry PCB mounted stabilizers. Not sure if anyone is still owed one set. I’m convinced I sold all my Cherry stabs.

   I have a brand new orange silicon skin for Ducky Shine 3 Fullsize keyboards. Originally not listed for sale; meant to give to rootwyrm as a surprise freebie, but was left out of the Ducky Shines shipped to him via untracked sea mail. Since rootwyrm has filed paypal complaint, he will not get this.

9)   Am holding on to an empty G80-1950 box with the accessories (keycaps and cable) inside! Two people bought G80-1950s from me and they were supposed to be shipped in the boxes, but now I don’t have any G80-1950 and I have one empty box instead. I think the keyboard itself must have been stuffed in someone’s 10kg box or thrown away by accident.

10)   I still have a bunch of Model M and F cables. I thought I over promised them to anyone who wanted, and I still have these things!

11)   I remember a legit buyer wanted some of my Cherry keyboard trackball/ trackpad assemblies. I still have these!

12)   I don’t remember if I ever sold my Filco Fullsize kit. Do I owe anyone this kit?

13)   If I can still find things that have been sold/ promised to be given and were not shipped out I’ll post them.
 
14)   No more Big Items.


If you are owed any of these things, please contact me by PM. Just give your address; shipping is on me. Not going through my notes anymore which are a mess and not reliable. I’ll read PMs in a week.

Shipping:

I will ship by early June. Shipping by sea mail, untracked. May take 2-3 months. Don’t pester me to rush ship things or else mistakes may recur. The April-May period was horrible and the consequences are still reverberating.

I will take photos of the postal receipts, packaging and postmarks to prove that they were handed off at the post office.

Cross posting this, as he closed the other thread and erased the OP.

Thanks for that. When I get back to a PC I will merge the threads. This whole thing is enough of a cluster**** as it is already.

[fohat.digs]

I will merge the threads.

It was exceptionally confusing from the beginning with multiple threads on multiple forums - all simultaneous and different.

[qwack]

I think it's obvious, but just in case, I'd advise people to not fall for this. So he miraculously finds stuff again, offers to send items to people who were wronged without saying who is eligible and who shall get what (so everything would be negociated in MP, behind closed doors), and finally warns that it would take 2 to 3 months for the goods to reach people: he's merely buying time hoping that people will stop making paypal claims or retract them, adding to the overall confusion, hoping that after those 3 months it will be too late for people to dispute the initial transaction.

Or maybe he's truthful, but the method does not seem to differ significantly than that which led to the current clusterduck, so I can't see how it should work this time. I'd like to say "it's nice to see him try to correct what went wrong" but it doesn't even seem to be the right way to do it (more shady transactions aren't the way to go).

[rootwyrm]

I think it's obvious, but just in case, I'd advise people to not fall for this. So he miraculously finds stuff again, offers to send items to people who were wronged without saying who is eligible and who shall get what (so everything would be negociated in MP, behind closed doors), and finally warns that it would take 2 to 3 months for the goods to reach people: he's merely buying time hoping that people will stop making paypal claims or retract them, adding to the overall confusion, hoping that after those 3 months it will be too late for people to dispute the initial transaction.

Or maybe he's truthful, but the method does not seem to differ significantly than that which led to the current clusterduck, so I can't see how it should work this time. I'd like to say "it's nice to see him try to correct what went wrong" but it doesn't even seem to be the right way to do it (more shady transactions aren't the way to go).

Nobody should even consider trusting this, because it's plainly an attempt to buy time and put disputes outside the window, ensuring no claims can be made. For wire transfers and the like, the period is usually 30 days or less, if there are any provisions at all. Meaning if you wait this alleged "3-5 weeks" for an untracked package, you definitely will not be able to make even an attempt to recover even your shipping costs if you get the wrong item.
For Paypal, depending, the period is 30 or 180 calendar days. That 3-5 weeks does not include customs processing time or local shipper time. Which means that if you wait the maximum time, that's over 10 weeks - which will unquestionably put you outside of the dispute window. Paypal will not even let you open a dispute. It's a done deal.

Again: opening a dispute does not mean you are getting your money back or that you are screwing the seller. When you open a dispute, you are creating an official record that says nothing more than "hey, there is an issue here, I'm concerned, please help resolve these concerns." It goes to the SELLER first to give them a reasonable opportunity to work with you directly to resolve it. Paypal is aware, they may place a hold on withdrawals for the seller, but they do not get involved. If you receive your items, you can always let the seller know everything is fine, and close it as resolved! And I would sincerely hope everyone who receives the correct items does so!
It doesn't ding the seller, and they can then take out the funds immediately. It shows the seller is able to work with the purchaser to resolve issues in a constructive fashion. Paypal understands that mistakes happen, and considers resolving them a net positive showing the seller can be trusted to take care of problems.

But if you do NOT open a dispute, there is NO record of the issue or potential issue. Once the deadline passes, you have no recourse. The money is gone and you're stuck with what you got. It is vitally important to maintain good records of everything. Photograph the package, photograph the contents, screenshot IM exchanges, the works.