Classified Forum Rules Discussion Thread

[mkawa]

This is a thread for discussing the rules declared and enforced for the classifieds forum. Below is a copy of the classifieds forum rules as of 5/23/12. Please note that early posts in this thread may refer to iterations of the rules that are no longer stated in this thread. Best to start at the end if you wish to continue discussing either the content or enforcement of rules in the classifieds forum.


These rules are subject to change, so please check this thread periodically. If you take offense to any of these rules, please PM Quarzac with your concerns.

1) Threadcrapping: If you aren't interested in buying from a seller, STAY OUT OF HIS/HER THREAD. Repeat offenders put themselves in danger of moderator action.

2) Bumping: Posts that consist of nothing but the word "bump", "ttt", "top", etc. are not acceptable posts, regardless of the forum. If you cannot think of a way to add useful information to a FS/WTB/FA thread, do not add a post to the thread. This new information does not have to be earth shattering, but each new post in a thread should add information to that thread. In addition, please allow 24 hours between posts to your own threads that are not responses to interested parties.

3) Thread Closure: To be fair to other sellers, please close your threads once both parties in a transaction have left iTrader feedback.

4) Method of Sale: We will not regulate method of sale. Instead, we encourage members to "vote with your dollars". If you don't like the method that a user is using to tell his or her item, don't buy it! Ignore it, and let the thread sink.

5) Conflict resolution: CAVEAT EMPTOR. Moderators will not step in to mediate deals gone bad. BE CAREFUL WHEN BUYING/SELLING ON THIS FORUM! We accept no liability and will provide no services to buyer or seller short of providing a forum for advertisements and a method for buyer/seller feedback. On that note, we highly encourage buyers and sellers to reference their own feedback ratings (heatware, ebay, etc), in addition to iTrader.

Posts disobeying these rules may be subject to moderator action.

Thanks folks.

[litster]

1) agreed.  don't like the price, don't bad mouth it
2) what is the guideline for bumping?  Is once a day OK?  Once every other day?
3) this sounds much better than what was originally there.
4) I hated people changed the original price to SOLD.  This is good
5) this sounds like an opinion.  what is the rule here?

the last part, it needs to be more clear.  With what you are saying here, you mean my classifieds thread could be deleted without warning because someone threadcrap on it?  As I mentioned somewhere else, it is better for mods to leave a note as to why certain action was taken, so the offender or other readers know what caused the action, so they know what not to do in the future.  Blindly deleting something without any explanation will just create more confusions and questions.  In this case, transparency is very important.

In general, I applaud the more open dialog that the previous iron fist approach.  I understand this is a privately run forum.  But a diplomatic approach will go a long way in getting people to follow the rules happily.

[demik]

2)do it like ocn. exactly 24 after your last bump you can bump again.

3) i say keep it open until item is received.

[mkawa]

OP updated. this list reflects both issues we have been discussing and the intent of a rule that would address them, rather than a set of proposed rules.

[fossala]

We should ban auctions.

[silat]

LOL foss. I was waiting for someone to say that:)
I must say that auctions will become problematic someday. We cannot monitor them properly to make sure they are run in an honest manner.

[fossala]

Come on, I don't hide my opinions on the matter. All it does is trys to squeeze every last penny out of people. Because we are such an enthusastic group we get carried away and auctions for 2 keycaps end at $200.

[Awful]

Great changes. Should ban auctions like Fossala suggested.

[fossala]

What stops people "shill bidding"? If I bid $300 and the next highest bid is $200. All the seller has to do is say someone bid $290 and he has just pocked himself another $100.

[Input Nirvana]

FWIW:
I don't support the deletion portion as mentioned by the OP. It is closed-minded, short sighted, and reflects the inability of the mods to deal with perceived issues reasonably. I have no interest in partaking in a forum condoning that type of escapist moderating. You can do better than that. If not, find someone that can.

If there's a problem, open the can of worms and address it for all to see. Set examples. Don't hide behind a delete button.

You may have meant something entirely different, in that case, I'm giving you this opportunity to amend your post before I repost and delete it.

Input Nirvana OUT

[slueth]

Man this forums is starting to become OCN, I really don't like these new rules..
I wish geekhack goes back to how it was.  Sure Ripster and KL's poopsling could of been offensive to some people, but I rather have that then all these new rules and mods..   That's what I found great about Geekhack, you didn't have to be scared about being banned and it was a wild west where gunslingers would troll, people could socialize, and we can talk about geeky stuff...

I am just afraid Mods will get over their heads and enforce too hard, Geekhack will be like any other tech enthusiast website([H], OCN)

[fossala]

Man this forums is starting to become OCN, I really don't like these new rules..
I wish geekhack goes back to how it was.  Sure Ripster and KL's poopsling could of been offensive to some people, but I rather have that then all these new rules and mods..   That's what I found great about Geekhack, you didn't have to be scared about being banned and it was a wild west where gunslingers would troll, people could socialize, and we can talk about geeky stuff...

I am just afraid Mods will get over their heads and enforce too hard, Geekhack will be like any other tech enthusiast website([H], OCN)

I dissagree, if you look at what the mods are mainly doing it is responding to reported post. If people report posts, and a lot of people do. It is obvious that a lot of people are unhappy.
No one is talking about banning, just trying to make the classifieds more structured.

[Input Nirvana]

No problem with the rules. They are reasonable and help the community.

I also want fully accountable mods, no mystery deletions with no warnig/explanations like what is proposed in the OP. If you want to keep the standards high, start there. Keep it easy to see and understand.

[slueth]

I am not saying I disagree with these rules we have right now.. but I don't want too much rules..
I think too many policies can be a bad thing, not sure if geekhack will be as enjoyable to me.
Let newcomers jump  into Geekhack, interact other people without fear, I hate joining forums and reading a long list of stickies for rules and then find out that I didn't read something carefully and BAM! punished...
Will people like noodles(where is he?) be able to say greetings in a casual way, will we be able to post NSFW, buds?
Will there be more rules for the other forum sections?
Just discussing my opinion

[fossala]

Topics like posting cannabis has to be kept to members forums as it is against forum rules anyway.

I don't think that everyone should know what the mods are doing as it could cause hostility. If you do something wrong, you will get warning/infractions. The whole world doesn't need to know what you did and what mod pulled you up on it.

[slueth]

Rather have transparency, the more the better.  What kind of hostility are you talking about, explain?

[fossala]

#1, In other forums I go on Mods aren't treated as normal members (hostility) I don't want this to happen here. Look at a certian member, he is already getting annoyed and flaming the mods.
#2, If we let everyone know what the people said and what action got taken, there would be no reason to remove it from the forum in the first place.

[slueth]

Not sure who you are talking about.. but if there is hostility there is some aggressor.  I think a lot of people (maybe its just me)want transparency and fairness.  I don't want geekhack mods to become Soup Nazis(Seinfeld).

[mkawa]

For those who complain about the advent of rules. First, we have had a set of rules since the beginning of time (of the forum). Second, you don't get to have this both ways; you can't both not have a set of rules and complain about someone else breaking what you consider to be a forum rule.

Hence, it's easiest for all involved to simply agree to abide by a simple, effective set of discussion rules (again, we all did this when we signed up!).

Finally, this is a bit of a tangent, but I very much think it needs to be said: I personally consider myself to be a volunteer member of the community that is following moderation guidelines in such a way that any other well behaved member of the community could be swapped into my place and more or less the same actions would be taken.

[fossala]

Ripster, don't swear. All you are doing is asking to be banned.

[fossala]

I think all are bad. Kind of like your attempted baiting. Do you want to be banned just to say, look they hate me?

[fossala]

Thanks for the White MX switch you sent me btw.  I'll post pics at Deskthority.net today.  The spring is weird.  (hope Limmy doesn't see this)

No problem. Belive it or not I don't dislike anyone around here. But baiting is only going to get you banned.

[maoiste]

I really don't like the auction stuff here in classifieds, as already has been said it really goes against what i think a community of keyboard enthusiasts should strive for (sharing the wealth and helping each other out, so we can enjoy our common interest even more).
Also i find reselling/reauctioning clickclack keys for anything but the retail price really offensiv towards the creator and the community, as clicklack sells them for a really fair price and he could easily charge more but chooses not to.

I think if classifieds is going to keep allowing auctions there need to be rules, so that they will be more transparent. Only open bids in the thread, prolonging auctions on bids within the last 15 mins maybe to prevent sniping.
If it is going to be subforum for auctions  i feel it has to be much more moderated. Because i think as is ppl are unhapy with auctions they will threadcrap said auctions which isn't ok aswell.

Other than that.
1) agreed
2) 24h bumps
3) Thread should be closed after item is recieved (presuming there is nothing wrong with the recieved item)
4) really agree with that as it would benefit less experienced users like myself. Also if rule 4 will make it, it might be good to have a subforum where ppl can ask other users to gauge stuff they are going to sell which could also lead to a good archive if sellers will edit the final selling price into those threads.
5) see above

Btw i don't know if any of you played diablo2 but i feel this forum has worse rules than forums i used back then to trade virtual goods, so i really would like to see some changes.

[Parabellum]

It's not like we need any of this - we're not OCN.

[litster]

agree with Input.  Set the rules up, make them fair, and when you take action based on the rules.  SAY SO.  This is called transparency.  If you just delete posts and close threads, even for good reasons, people won't know.  People will just think mods abuse their power.  Also, mods need to be accountable for their actions.  When people see mods do the right things and state what they do and why, people will respect that.  Otherwise, you will just be pushing more and more people away.

Honestly, the way the original rules were written (the tone) totally turned me off.  Now it is getting better.

[Input Nirvana]

I'm not discounting the rules, Not at all. I've not said, "That's a bad rule!!"

I don't have any issue with moderation, or there being mods. I don't. Never said "Moderation is bad, don't have mods!!!"

I'm not being aggressive and flaming the mods. I'm not doing that. I sort of 'know' most of them and think highly of them, and there is nothing personal. I kinda like 'em

What I HAVE said and done (2 things):
1) I don't like the aggressive "cop" stance. I'll call it out right now. Mkawa, you are here to serve, not police. I want to see a change in your attitude and presentation. It's not what you are doing, but how you do it, and how you do it is very important. Dont' ruin things, you've already started down that path, so change before it's too late and real damage is done. Think of yourself as a customer service representative, because that's exactly what a mod is.

2) I don't like the 'mystery' or 'hidden side' of some moderation, you are not clear on what is happening or why. It's confusing and takes the joy out of the process. Just get it out there, address it, and move on. The attempt at invisible omnipotent alleged higher authority is what breeds hostility. So don't do it.

Honestly and truthfully, I need to move on, this stupid crap is getting my blood pressure up. It's just a god damn forum, keep it simple.

IN-PUT NIR-VAN-NA OUT!

[mkawa]

1) in programmer jargon, "deprecated" means most aptly "no longer supported". i wasn't aware that that is so different from its dictionary definition. in the future it's probably fine to ask what it means without condescension and a very large video.

2) thanks for the input(, ) nirvana, litster and others. i and the other moderators truly appreciate it.

2a) my feeling is that, as moderators, we are agents of imav more than that of the community. where possible, yes, we would like to serve the community, but i feel the way forward to doing that is to assist imav. this may require playing the bad guy sometimes, but that is why, like most volunteer positions, it's a bit thankless.

2b) we have discussed adding more transparency to moderation actions, and the problem is that it often invites as much or more non-productive argument as productive argument, which requires more moderation and so on...

3) a number of us on the board are, yes, highly technical people, and we (in fact i, in particular) are highly direct, brusque, what have you; this is not necessarily because we hate everyone or aspire to be law enforcement officers, but because that is the way we are used to communicating, and changing our mode of communication takes time and constructive advice. please keep this in mind when you consider your comments.

[snowboarder3]

I'm all for auctions. Simple supply and demand. Don't like it? Don't bid. I've never seen someone so concerned with the rules as foss. Internet, serious business.

If auctions are banned what stops someone for selling a cc for 200 obo and then just taking the best offer?

Makes me want to auction one of my click clakcks just to spite these communists.

[mkawa]

So are ClickClack auctions allowed then?

sell whatever you want however you want.

[thegunner100]

People should leave the prices for the things that have been sold, that way we'll have a reference point for selling similar items.

[Djuzuh]

I don't know, I'm okay with this.

It makes more sense to order the threads via the last changes made to them, or the last information added, instead of the seller's forum disponibility.

[mkawa]

People should leave the prices for the things that have been sold, that way we'll have a reference point for selling similar items.

unfortunately given our hands off policy, this has to be up to user discretion. while i agree that it can be helpful, not every user will want this information to be public. as a substitute, we've stickied an appraisal thread to the top of the forum

[jdcarpe]

Is there any way we can have auction threads moved off-site, to eBay or similar? With the strict "no threadcrapping" policy, there is no way for the community to "self police," and to call out profiteering weasels for the scum they are. These "members" are only here to try and make money off other members of our community, simply because they possess something that is in high demand. Yes, I'm talking about Clack Factory skulls, etc. Heck, I got caught up in it at one time, as a buyer, before I knew that it only hurts the community to artificially inflate the prices so. I see the folly of it now, but we need to help other new members see it also.

Either that, or loosen up on the "no threadcrapping" policy. If you don't want people "crapping" in your thread, then don't be a jerk with your sale.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Anyone else want to add to the discussion?

[sth]

Is there any way we can have auction threads moved off-site, to eBay or similar? With the strict "no threadcrapping" policy, there is no way for the community to "self police," and to call out profiteering weasels for the scum they are. These "members" are only here to try and make money off other members of our community, simply because they possess something that is in high demand. Yes, I'm talking about Clack Factory skulls, etc. Heck, I got caught up in it at one time, as a buyer, before I knew that it only hurts the community to artificially inflate the prices so. I see the folly of it now, but we need to help other new members see it also.

Either that, or loosen up on the "no threadcrapping" policy. If you don't want people "crapping" in your thread, then don't be a jerk with your sale.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Anyone else want to add to the discussion?

Agreed.

Also, in light of recent group buy drama, I think there should be some stronger moderation of users that mislead people for profit. It is not acceptable in a community setting for people to make up sob stories in an attempt to make more money / spend less at the expense of other users.

[MMB]

It can't be any simpler than 'if you don't like the prices, you don't need to participate'. Do you go into a Target and complain to the management that you don't like the price on something? No. You go somewhere else and buy it there.

If people can't get that, then simply require 'Auction' threads to be locked on the first post. This way, nobody can post, complain, whine or otherwise, and everything is handled in PM's. It's either that or not allowing auctions at all.

[cactux]

^ x2

[demik]

LIST A STARTING PRICE FFS.

**** this "shoot me an offer" crap

give people something to start with!!

[MMB]

LIST A STARTING PRICE FFS.

**** this "shoot me an offer" crap

give people something to start with!!

I think you're mad at jrr

[sth]

It can't be any simpler than 'if you don't like the prices, you don't need to participate'. Do you go into a Target and complain to the management that you don't like the price on something? No. You go somewhere else and buy it there.

If people can't get that, then simply require 'Auction' threads to be locked on the first post. This way, nobody can post, complain, whine or otherwise, and everything is handled in PM's. It's either that or not allowing auctions at all.

But it's not that simple. It's not about not liking the prices, it's about the prices being predicated on a lie fabricated to put more money in one person's pocket. It's like if you went to target and bought something, only for the cashier to tell you that the item you wanted is going to cost more and then pocket the extra. Compound that with the fact that geekhack is not a for-profit entity and you can hopefully see where I and others have a problem with simplifying everything to 'if you don't like it dont buy it.'

Also dude you are a worse threadcrapper than I am

[MMB]

But it's not that simple. It's not about not liking the prices, it's about the prices being predicated on a lie fabricated to put more money in one person's pocket. It's like if you went to target and bought something, only for the cashier to tell you that the item you wanted is going to cost more and then pocket the extra. Compound that with the fact that geekhack is not a for-profit entity and you can hopefully see where I and others have a problem with simplifying everything to 'if you don't like it dont buy it.'

Also dude you are a worse threadcrapper than I am

First of all, wrong bro. I am sorry, but it's a free market. And as such, people are free to post something for whatever they wish. You are FREE to not participate. Complaining and flaming someone because of that only drags the morale of the forum down and reflects poorly on GH.

Do you complain to ebay when someone sold an item for what you FELT was many times more than it was worth? Seriously, check yoself.

Also, don't spread lies about me. I never crap in someones sale thread.

[demik]

[cactux]

^ Batman ?

[MMB]

^ Batman ?

It's clearly the green lantern....

[demik]

aquaman!

because he does nothing

[sth]

But it's not that simple. It's not about not liking the prices, it's about the prices being predicated on a lie fabricated to put more money in one person's pocket. It's like if you went to target and bought something, only for the cashier to tell you that the item you wanted is going to cost more and then pocket the extra. Compound that with the fact that geekhack is not a for-profit entity and you can hopefully see where I and others have a problem with simplifying everything to 'if you don't like it dont buy it.'

Also dude you are a worse threadcrapper than I am

First of all, wrong bro. I am sorry, but it's a free market. And as such, people are free to post something for whatever they wish. You are FREE to not participate. Complaining and flaming someone because of that only drags the morale of the forum down and reflects poorly on GH.

Do you complain to ebay when someone sold an item for what you FELT was many times more than it was worth? Seriously, check yoself.

Also, don't spread lies about me. I never crap in someones sale thread.

There is absolutely no such thing as a free market that actually exists and can be used as a comparable model here.
eBay sellers PAY TO SELL on ebay. There is no fee to sell on geekhack, and the entire site is run out of love at a monetary loss.
 There is no market here without the community, and lying TO FURTHER YOUR PROFIT is unacceptable behaviour. I seriously can't believe people don't get banned for that kind of ****.

[jcrouse]

^ x2

^ x3

I simply don't see the immediate effects of how this is bad, for people, the website, the reputation of GH or anything.

JDCarpe, or someone on that side of the fence, please explain to me how selling a CC skull for $100 has a negative effect on all of this. I still have to believe that if you don't like it, don't bid or make offers. When you then walk away, probably laughting to yourself, how are you negatively impacted?

Thanks,
John

[demik]

But it's not that simple. It's not about not liking the prices, it's about the prices being predicated on a lie fabricated to put more money in one person's pocket. It's like if you went to target and bought something, only for the cashier to tell you that the item you wanted is going to cost more and then pocket the extra. Compound that with the fact that geekhack is not a for-profit entity and you can hopefully see where I and others have a problem with simplifying everything to 'if you don't like it dont buy it.'

Also dude you are a worse threadcrapper than I am

First of all, wrong bro. I am sorry, but it's a free market. And as such, people are free to post something for whatever they wish. You are FREE to not participate. Complaining and flaming someone because of that only drags the morale of the forum down and reflects poorly on GH.

Do you complain to ebay when someone sold an item for what you FELT was many times more than it was worth? Seriously, check yoself.

Also, don't spread lies about me. I never crap in someones sale thread.

There is absolutely no such thing as a free market that actually exists and can be used as a comparable model here.
eBay sellers PAY TO SELL on ebay. There is no fee to sell on geekhack, and the entire site is run out of love at a monetary loss.
 There is no market here without the community, and lying TO FURTHER YOUR PROFIT is unacceptable behaviour. I seriously can't believe people don't get banned for that kind of ****.

or get vendor forums.

IF U MAKE MONEY OFF GH GET A ****ING VENDOR FORUM. especially group buys, large amounts of money too. well, compared to everybody else.

[cactux]

How can you tell when someone makes money or not ? Let say that I paid 500 for a filco, am I going to be punished because I am looking for 500usd (this is an example).? What is going to happen is that people wont buy it and I will be force to reduce the price

[MMB]

There is absolutely no such thing as a free market that actually exists and can be used as a comparable model here.
eBay sellers PAY TO SELL on ebay. There is no fee to sell on geekhack, and the entire site is run out of love at a monetary loss.
 There is no market here without the community, and lying TO FURTHER YOUR PROFIT is unacceptable behaviour. I seriously can't believe people don't get banned for that kind of ****.

It sounds like you are really just upset because you feel it lacks integrity. But you don't have much to stand on in terms of basis for your feelings. It IS a free market in the sense that GH allows people to make the posts. They also tell you clearly, that you do not have to participate. If GH as a community shuns this 'behavior' as you refer to it, then nothing would ever get bought, and the listing would drop down into oblivion. But the fact is, it's a hard to obtain item, and holds value for those willing to spend on it. I say this time and time again... ITS ONLY EXPENSIVE AND OR OVERPRICED TO THE PEOPLE THAT WOULDNT PAY OR FEEL ITS WRONG TO PAY THAT MUCH MONEY.

Hope that makes sense.....

[sth]

How can you tell when someone make money or not ? Let say that I paid 500 for a filco am I going to be punished because I am looking for 500usd (this is an example).? What is going to happen is that people wont buy it and I will be force to reduce the price

if you paid $500 for a filco... you're using silly non-real situations to compare to what is actually happening on this board.

And MMB - integrity is a major part of any strong community. sorta bums me out that you'd rather ignorant people get burned and reward ******* behavior than just make things right. unchecked capitalism (what I assume you mean by free market) does not exist in a vacuum removed from human behavior or communities, and what it does to both of those things is destroy them.

Again, I only have a personal issue with profiteering, which I try not to project to the community. Lying has no place in the market.

[MMB]

How can you tell when someone make money or not ? Let say that I paid 500 for a filco am I going to be punished because I am looking for 500usd (this is an example).? What is going to happen is that people wont buy it and I will be force to reduce the price

if you paid $500 for a filco... you're using silly non-real situations to compare to what is actually happening on this board.

And MMB - integrity is a major part of any strong community. sorta bums me out that you'd rather ignorant people get burned and reward ******* behavior than just make things right. unchecked capitalism (what I assume you mean by free market) does not exist in a vacuum removed from human behavior or communities, and what it does to both of those things is destroy them.

Again, if someone is willing to pay that much, especially in an auction situation, then it's what personal value they hold it at. It doesn't mean the seller lacks integrity just because you personally feel they are charging too much. How are they being an ******* because they put an item up for bid, and someone happens to want to drop way more than what it's worth on it? I have done that myself even with the knowledge that it wasn't worth that much, but I had to have it. You need to go in with those things in mind before making judgement calls, which you seem to be doing an awful lot of. Bottom line is, until GH says "NO AUCTIONS ALLOWED", you have no basis to complain, or at the very least, no business complaining in that particular thread. Those are the rules, I didn't make them. And until they change, you are going on and on about nothing right now.

[sth]

Again, if someone is willing to pay that much, especially in an auction situation, then it's what personal value they hold it at. It doesn't mean the seller lacks integrity just because you personally feel they are charging too much. How are they being an ******* because they put an item up for bid, and someone happens to want to drop way more than what it's worth on it? I have done that myself even with the knowledge that it wasn't worth that much, but I had to have it. You need to go in with those things in mind before making judgement calls, which you seem to be doing an awful lot of.

That's really not what I'm talking about here. You can tell because what you're saying is reasonable, and I'm not talking about reasonable behavior But really, yeah, if a buyer wants to pay more for something that's their deal. That says nothing of people running shady auctions or people getting too caught up in the moment and making a ****ty decision. I'm not saying we need to police sellers for nubs' sake, but there is certain ****ty behavior that can be banned without ruining the fun for everyone.

Bottom line is, until GH says "NO AUCTIONS ALLOWED", you have no basis to complain, or at the very least, no business complaining in that particular thread. Those are the rules, I didn't make them. And until they change, you are going on and on about nothing right now.

Rules change when people start talking, so that's what I'm doing. I have plenty of basis to complain when I see something I view as unjust being perpetuated by sellers who have more respect for money than people.

[alaricljs]

**** Taking off the moderator hat *****

So... how would you feel if I started selling PCB mount MX blue switches for $.50/ea +shipping (say $5.50) in the classifieds?

Let's preface this with the fact that most people in this thread know that there's a source selling at ~$.23

Am I taking advantage of anyone?  I personally don't think so.

try 2:

I start a GB for the same switches, we have to make it to 3200 switches and it's $.32 per switch plus the split shipping to me and the $5.50 to you.  If demik kept his fat mouth shut I could have done this and made myself ~$285.  In fact, I'd bet money I could have offered them for $.45 and made ~$700.

Here's the thing... I would never do it at cost like demik, my time is money.  I like GH and you guys, so I'd never do it at $.45/ea because that's just plain gouging.


How do you know the diff and moderate it?

[sth]

**** Taking off the moderator hat *****

So... how would you feel if I started selling PCB mount MX blue switches for $.50/ea +shipping (say $5.50) in the classifieds?

Let's preface this with the fact that most people in this thread know that there's a source selling at ~$.23

Am I taking advantage of anyone?  I personally don't think so.

Get a vendor forum.

try 2:

I start a GB for the same switches, we have to make it to 3200 switches and it's $.32 per switch plus the split shipping to me and the $5.50 to you.  If demik kept his fat mouth shut I could have done this and made myself ~$285.  In fact, I'd bet money I could have offered them for $.45 and made ~$700.

Here's the thing... I would never do it at cost like demik, my time is money.  I like GH and you guys, so I'd never do it at $.45/ea because that's just plain gouging.

How do you know the diff and moderate it?

Repeat behavior is a good indicator. Also, we are a fairly resourceful community. If you tried to sell them at that high a profit, somebody would very likely point out that they are priced much lower than you are selling them for. Of course, the seller could ***** about that being threadcrapping but it's no less relevant to the sale than mentioning that the source the GB operator is working with is shady and might rip off the GB operator.

I'm not saying people should never charge more than cost for things. I'm saying it should be transparent, and if it's discovered that you are intentionally misleading people to make a buck you are an ******* who has no place in a community-supported forum. Of course black and white rules will have exceptions. Thats why judgement calls should be made on a case-by-case basis.

[demik]

**** Taking off the moderator hat *****

So... how would you feel if I started selling PCB mount MX blue switches for $.50/ea +shipping (say $5.50) in the classifieds?

Let's preface this with the fact that most people in this thread know that there's a source selling at ~$.23

Am I taking advantage of anyone?  I personally don't think so.

try 2:

I start a GB for the same switches, we have to make it to 3200 switches and it's $.32 per switch plus the split shipping to me and the $5.50 to you.  If demik kept his fat mouth shut I could have done this and made myself ~$285.  In fact, I'd bet money I could have offered them for $.45 and made ~$700.

Here's the thing... I would never do it at cost like demik, my time is money.  I like GH and you guys, so I'd never do it at $.45/ea because that's just plain gouging.


How do you know the diff and moderate it?

[jcrouse]

and if it's discovered that you are intentionally misleading people to make a buck ....

That is a completely different situation and was not really what was being discussed. I don't like speaking for other people, but am guessing NOBODY is going to argue that intentionally misleading is acceptable. What you were arguing, I thought, was price gouging and invisible auctions. I realize you could equate intentionally misleading to invisible auctions, but remember, there are some honest and good people out there.

Suppose you post something and say you want $50. By the time you check your PMs the first guy offered you $50, but someone else offered $80 and someone else $90. Just something to think about ...

Also, suppose you had something that you paid $30 for but know you could sell it for $60 to $80. What do you do? Sell it for $30 because your part of a community? How about $40, just to cover a little time and effort (maybe shipping), how about the full $80. Where does it end. Short on the seller lying and being caught doing so, almost impossible, this is not regulatable. Even open bids, maybe he has a friend run the price up.

[sth]

and if it's discovered that you are intentionally misleading people to make a buck ....

That is a completely different situation and was not really what was being discussed. I don't like speaking for other people, but am guessing NOBODY is going to argue that intentionally misleading is acceptable. What you were arguing, I thought, was price gouging and invisible auctions. I realize you could equate intentionally misleading to invisible auctions, but remember, there are some honest and good people out there.

It's what I have been discussing this whole time, and it has happened. I am not looking to stir up more **** but this exact scenario came up last week for a current group buy.

Its the sellers choice whether to honor their original selling price or turn their straight-sale into a bidding war.
As far as my personal answer to your last paragraph, I trade as much as possible especially when it comes to items of questionable / relative value (like click clacks, cherry doubleshots, whatever it is). Prices for some things reflect their rarity but that doesn't mean that they are really worth that dollar amount -- just that somebody is willing to pay for it because they have the privilege of spending stupid amounts of money on plastic toys.

[DanGWanG]

Enforce rules about hidden bidding.  Keep everything free market and visible to the public.  Shame the sellers who rip people off (wall of shame/blacklist).  Educate buyers while still protecting sellers.

Edit:  Oh, and also constructive criticism (delivered in a non-offensive tone) about the price and availability should NOT be considered threadcrapping.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33033.0

[demik]

Enforce rules about hidden bidding.  Keep everything free market and visible to the public.  Shame the sellers who rip people off (wall of shame/blacklist).  Educate buyers while still protecting sellers.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33033.0

do this to traders too.

[sth]

Enforce rules about hidden bidding.  Keep everything free market and visible to the public.  Shame the sellers who rip people off (wall of shame/blacklist).  Educate buyers while still protecting sellers.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33033.0

do this to traders too.

What, and run the risk of getting a nickname like Mr. Dop? The danger is too great.

[DanGWanG]

I added this part to my post too, but you guys quoted me before my edit =/

Added:  Oh, and also constructive criticism (delivered in a non-offensive tone) about the price and availability should NOT be considered threadcrapping.

[fartq]

so, i think what's going to happen to the classifieds section is a couple of things will concretely change:

1) post bumping will be strictly controlled by the software. basically, no matter how many times you post "ttt, bump", etc. the post will simply not pop to the top of the page for anyone for 8-12 hours.

2) there will be an explicit way to mark your item "sold/traded/bought/w/e" that closes the thread automagically

we'll just start with that. as the current sticky says, actual active human moderation will be at a minimum for the time being. too many other fires at the moment. i do agree that if criticism is constructive, it should be allowed, in general, on the forum. that said, it really depends on what the entire userbase thinks. i do feel like, so far, we've done pretty well at being cohesive and constructive since the reboot, but i also know that this will change somewhat as we start growing rapidly again.

so in summary: good to debate this constructively, but nothing's going to change from its current wild-west state for a little while.

[Cindori]

Why can I not post in Classifieds? Need post count? How much?

[IPT]

so does talking about prices in the thread count as thread crapping now?

[boost]

so does talking about prices in the thread count as thread crapping now?

x2

[mztriz]

Is it okay to post a thread offering services for keycaps?

[clickclack123]

Can we please have a rule that sellers can't edit posts to remove the price when an item is sold? Then people can search and use previous sales as a gauge what a certain item usually goes for.

[SpAmRaY]

Can we please have a rule that sellers can't edit posts to remove the price when an item is sold? Then people can search and use previous sales as a gauge what a certain item usually goes for.

Well if they are decent people and you PM them I'm sure they will help you.

Also I was disappointed I thought this was a new thread at first

[IPT]

Can we please have a rule that sellers can't edit posts to remove the price when an item is sold? Then people can search and use previous sales as a gauge what a certain item usually goes for.

i'll be honest, its just a lot easier to delete the items you've sold when you're cleaning up a selling thread.

[jdcarpe]

Can we please have a rule that sellers can't edit posts to remove the price when an item is sold? Then people can search and use previous sales as a gauge what a certain item usually goes for.

i'll be honest, its just a lot easier to delete the items you've sold when you're cleaning up a selling thread.

Right, but then we lose the price history for future sales valuations. That's why I don't think the "one consolidated sales thread" idea is a good one. If each item, or group of items, that is sold are in one [FS] thread, and that thread is updated to say "SOLD" and then locked once that sale is complete, then the price history stays archived.

[SpAmRaY]

Can we please have a rule that sellers can't edit posts to remove the price when an item is sold? Then people can search and use previous sales as a gauge what a certain item usually goes for.

i'll be honest, its just a lot easier to delete the items you've sold when you're cleaning up a selling thread.

Right, but then we lose the price history for future sales valuations. That's why I don't think the "one consolidated sales thread" idea is a good one. If each item, or group of items, that is sold are in one [FS] thread, and that thread is updated to say "SOLD" and then locked once that sale is complete, then the price history stays archived.

Seems like I have much better luck selling things when the thread is for only one item and with as little other information as possible.

[IPT]

yeah but then you get people *****ing about having multiple sale threads
i agree, 1 sale thread per item is the easiest way to do it, then when items sold they get locked and moved to an archive forum perhaps.

But again, people complain if you have like 2 threads in classified.

[SpAmRaY]

yeah but then you get people *****ing about having multiple sale threads
i agree, 1 sale thread per item is the easiest way to do it, then when items sold they get locked and moved to an archive forum perhaps.

But again, people complain if you have like 2 threads in classified.

Well when people get carried away with 3 threads at once with multiple items in each thread and even linking the threads to one another....that I'm not so sure about.

[IPT]

yeah but then you get people *****ing about having multiple sale threads
i agree, 1 sale thread per item is the easiest way to do it, then when items sold they get locked and moved to an archive forum perhaps.

But again, people complain if you have like 2 threads in classified.

Well when people get carried away with 3 threads at once with multiple items in each thread and even linking the threads to one another....that I'm not so sure about.

so let me ask you this then.  Would it have been better when I'm selling 2 keyboards, keycap sets, novelty keys, and 3DS (lol) to have them all in 1 thread or make like 6 threads.  I'd prefer 6 threads instead of 1, but if i did that i'd have been *****ed at for all of eternity

[jdcarpe]

I think if you have multiple items for sale at one time, you should combine them into one thread. Then either mark or move the sold stuff to the bottom of the OP, or a *RESERVED* post in your thread. Then once everything has sold (or you give up), then lock it and start a new one for the next items you sell later.

[SpAmRaY]

I think if you have multiple items for sale at one time, you should combine them into one thread. Then either mark or move the sold stuff to the bottom of the OP, or a *RESERVED* post in your thread. Then once everything has sold (or you give up), then lock it and start a new one for the next items you sell later.

yeah but then you get people *****ing about having multiple sale threads
i agree, 1 sale thread per item is the easiest way to do it, then when items sold they get locked and moved to an archive forum perhaps.

But again, people complain if you have like 2 threads in classified.

Well when people get carried away with 3 threads at once with multiple items in each thread and even linking the threads to one another....that I'm not so sure about.

so let me ask you this then.  Would it have been better when I'm selling 2 keyboards, keycap sets, novelty keys, and 3DS (lol) to have them all in 1 thread or make like 6 threads.  I'd prefer 6 threads instead of 1, but if i did that i'd have been *****ed at for all of eternity

Well the only reason I see most people have for 6 threads is so you can post them 4 hours apart, then you can bump them at the same time everyday and link them all to one another and you get to stay exposed on the first page every 4 hours.

I think if you have multiple items for sale at one time, you should combine them into one thread. Then either mark or move the sold stuff to the bottom of the OP, or a *RESERVED* post in your thread. Then once everything has sold (or you give up), then lock it and start a new one for the next items you sell later.

^^ Yes I've done this in the past. Lately my selling has been somewhat spur of the moment where I just look at stuff I've got sitting around and ask myself how much I really wanted that item to begin with, which usually ends up in it getting put up for sale.

[regack]

I'm not saying I'm all for this, just tossing it out as a concept.  A lot of times people have multiple things to sell at once, like ProjectD said.  Would it at all make sense to have subsections of classifieds?

Keyboards - complete boards & directly related (wrist rests, cases, custom services)
Caps - singletons, sets, storage cases, I can't think of anything else, but maybe there is...
Other (the off-topic of classifieds) - shoes, microwave ovens, mice, external drives, sexy santa suits...

the 3DS - that's other, completely unrelated.   A FS thread titled....

               [FS] 2 keyboards, keycap sets, novelty keys, and 3DS

...is kind of crappy.  I would much rather see 3 subjects in targeted areas...

[FS] 1988 IBM Model M, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL, ErgoDox Acrylic Case (Unused)
[FS] (2x) R4 Spherical Set, Various Novelty Caps, purposely-melted candy corn Clack
[FS] Nintendo 3DS + Zelda

That said, I'm not much of a shopper, I don't go browsing the classifieds looking for anything and everything, I'm usually targeting something, so having things split out is easier for me. 

The other idea I had would be to offer tagging of posts (from predetermined lists) so the classifieds area could have filters applied to, but that's a lot more work (so somebody better get started tomorrow). 

[SpAmRaY]

Do we no longer have to post proper time stamps?

I notice more threads without them.

Of course I  report but maybe nobody is around to enforce the rules?



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[xondat]

Do we no longer have to post proper time stamps?

I notice more threads without them.

Of course I  report but maybe nobody is around to enforce the rules?

I don't think some threads require them, as the actual product is one-off (I'm thinking ETF recently).

I have noticed a general increase, it's usually off-site members trying to sell on another platform, hence the lack of care.

It's the same with people running group buys off-site, but posting links in their IC instead of making a GB post, but that's another topic.

[SpAmRaY]

So is it fair game now to simply link to an r/mechmarket thread for a classifieds posting here?

Some reason I thought this was against the rules.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[hapakey]

This post should be in Suggestions subforum.

[HoffmanMyster]

So is it fair game now to simply link to an r/mechmarket thread for a classifieds posting here?

Some reason I thought this was against the rules.

Not necessarily against the rules, as it's effectively similar to posting all your items in a google sheet and linking that in the body of the post.  As long as the needed info is present, there shouldn't be any issues per the rules. 

That said, it's always easier/nicer if the content is directly in the body of the thread here on GH, just for ease of use.