Author Topic: New Dell AT101Ws $10  (Read 31645 times)

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Offline D-EJ915

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New Dell AT101Ws $10
« on: Wed, 03 December 2008, 21:27:40 »
new auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-104-Key-PS2-6P-USA-Keyboard-NEW-227KN_W0QQitemZ370127527802QQihZ024QQcategoryZ51084QQcmdZViewItem

no more free shipping, but it's not too bad if you buy 2 or more

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-104-Key-PS2-6P-USA-Keyboard-NEW-227KN_W0QQitemZ220316307599QQihZ012QQcategoryZ51084QQcmdZViewItem

seems like a pretty freaking good deal, that's the kinds with the alps/alps clone switch isn't it?

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #1 on: Wed, 03 December 2008, 21:30:58 »
It looks like it.  The model number I know it by is AT-101W, though.  I will try to do some research and get back.


Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #2 on: Wed, 03 December 2008, 21:37:51 »
I can't really tell.  Dell may have used the same shell as the AT-101, but used rubber domes instead on this one.  You might have to ask the seller to provide a pic w/o the keycap.


Offline D-EJ915

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« Reply #3 on: Wed, 03 December 2008, 22:16:28 »
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=12751&postcount=263
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=12756&postcount=265

it should be

and holy cow
Code: [Select]

Purchase history
User ID Buy It Now Price Qty Date of Purchase
p***o   US $10.00          80  Nov-26-08 16:41:33 PST

LOL 80

I bought a compaq branded logitech mouseman from this guy best offer of $12 from a BIN of $17 so they seem kinda generous it seems so go for the best offer if you want one, but I'd use cashback + BIN if I wanted say 3 or more.

Offline skriefal

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« Reply #4 on: Wed, 03 December 2008, 22:26:27 »
$10 each with free shipping?  I'd order a few... if I didn't already own two of 'em!

Offline iMav

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« Reply #5 on: Wed, 03 December 2008, 22:47:06 »
That is a phenomenal deal.  If you are partial at ALL to these keyboards...I'd start hording now!  :)

(and I bet the person that bought those 80 turns them around and makes a healthy profit by posting them properly on eBay)

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #6 on: Wed, 03 December 2008, 22:55:56 »
I am not so sure these are the Alps keyboards since on the listing they are labeled with a different model number.  If someone chances it and buys one, please let us know if this is the Alps version.  If so, I may pick up a couple.

EDIT:  Now that I looked at the picture in iMav's post linked above, I did see that these are the Alps 'boards.  Now that I stand corrected, I am off to pick up a couple. :)


Offline iMav

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« Reply #7 on: Wed, 03 December 2008, 22:59:37 »
Look at my recent post.  That is the correct DP/N.

I can verify personally that if it says 227KN on the box, it's a AT101W on the inside.  ;)


Offline bhtooefr

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« Reply #8 on: Wed, 03 December 2008, 23:02:50 »
Looking at the eBay completed listings, these things don't seem to go for more than that anyway, though. So, you wouldn't be making a profit, really.

I'd say, if you want to try one, buy one. If you like them, buy a bunch of them, and hoard them.

(I don't even have $10 handy to try one, though.)

Offline iMav

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« Reply #9 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 00:38:36 »
I can confirm that (at least in my case) they will take $7 a piece for them.  ;)

Offline fkeidjn

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« Reply #10 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 00:56:53 »
Looks too good to be true.  I place a $7 offer though.
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #11 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 01:00:08 »
Even though, I gave my last two to my mom, I decided to pick another up.  They are fairly nice 'boards, especially for the price, and, if it breaks, no big deal.

EDIT: I just placed a $7 offer on 2 more ($14 total).  I can always figure out what to do with them later. :)


Offline D-EJ915

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« Reply #12 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 01:30:14 »
Oh nice, I put a best offer in as well


I just noticed that this joint is the same place that has the AGP/PCI-X riser board I want for my Itanic

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #13 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 07:11:21 »
does anyone have any picks of the inside of one of these 'boards?

Offline iMav

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« Reply #14 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 07:44:20 »
Quote from: xsphat;13616
does anyone have any picks of the inside of one of these 'boards?

Much like most alps and cherry 'boards, it's a bunch of switches soldiered onto a circuit board.  

I had one totally apart for a good cleaning not too long ago (one that I have since given away).  And I don't remember anything extra-ordinary about it.

How curious are you?  I can tear one apart and take pics in the morning if you'd like.

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #15 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 07:50:08 »
I'm curious about this metal plate. The AT-102R I had didn't have one.

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #16 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 08:11:00 »
Quote from: iMav;13622
How curious are you?  I can tear one apart and take pics in the morning if you'd like.

I'd like to see the guts before I buy one, and maybe several, for some mods I've been thinking about doing for a while. If it looks like it could work, I would just as soon buy 3 of them right away.

All I need is a pic of the board laying on it's keys with the bottom cover off. I also need to know where the chip is.

Thanks for offering to go through the trouble. :)

Offline poonsmjj

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« Reply #17 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 09:46:13 »
thanks for the find :) just offered to buy 2 at $7... will let you guys know how it went

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #18 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 10:39:25 »
Hey iMav, never mind about taking that keyboard apart — Filco is now making what I was going to create so I can just buy one.

Offline iMav

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« Reply #19 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 14:31:27 »
Quote from: xsphat;13647
Hey iMav, never mind about taking that keyboard apart — Filco is now making what I was going to create so I can just buy one.
The Filco mini?  That's been around for a while now.  (in fact I even owned one for a bit)

EDIT:  Ahh, white alps.  Nice.  

Ready to change up your daily driver again, eh?  ;)

Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #20 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 14:33:49 »
They have a metal backplate. Controller is on the keyswitch pcb, IIRC. The pcb said (c) Alps.

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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #21 on: Thu, 04 December 2008, 16:54:22 »
Quote from: iMav;13680
Ready to change up your daily driver again, eh?  ;)


This is another keyboard I've dreampt of, just like the Topre.

Offline D-EJ915

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« Reply #22 on: Sat, 06 December 2008, 15:15:28 »

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #23 on: Sat, 06 December 2008, 15:38:34 »
I got one just in time — it shipped today.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #24 on: Sat, 06 December 2008, 15:44:51 »
Quote from: D-EJ915;13903
seller ended it and relisted it charging for shipping now: http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-104-Key-PS2-6P-USA-Keyboard-NEW-227KN_W0QQitemZ370127527802QQihZ024QQcategoryZ51084QQcmdZViewItem


what switch in those? black alps?

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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #25 on: Sat, 06 December 2008, 16:00:15 »
Quote from: wellington1869;13907
what switch in those? black alps?


Word.

Offline iMav

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« Reply #26 on: Sat, 06 December 2008, 17:00:56 »
Funny.  Hopefully everyone here got their desired allotment before the listing was changed.

My wife loves these 'boards, so I made sure I stocked up.

Offline D-EJ915

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« Reply #27 on: Sat, 06 December 2008, 17:13:26 »
yeah if you go to the other one it has the offers and winners and such

Code: [Select]

d-ej915( 99Feedback score is 50 to 99) US $7.00 Seller accepted 3 Dec-06-08 08:31:31 PST Paid Paypal
p***n ( 16Feedback score is 10 to 49) -- Seller accepted 2 Dec-06-08 00:26:24 PST --
n***n ( 14Feedback score is 10 to 49) -- Seller accepted 1 Dec-05-08 20:03:54 PST --
r***e ( 13Feedback score is 10 to 49) -- Seller accepted 2 Dec-05-08 14:53:40 PST --
h***a ( 49Feedback score is 10 to 49) -- Seller accepted 2 Dec-05-08 14:36:58 PST --
e***e ( 151Feedback score is 100 to 499) -- Seller accepted 1 Dec-05-08 14:30:36 PST --
h***s ( 37Feedback score is 10 to 49) -- Seller accepted 1 Dec-05-08 14:17:59 PST --
h***o ( 53Feedback score is 50 to 99) -- Seller accepted 3 Dec-05-08 12:10:05 PST

then people who just hit the BIN
Code: [Select]
p***oFeedback score is 500 to 999 US $10.00 80 Nov-26-08 16:41:33 PST --
o***oFeedback score is 10 to 49 US $10.00 2 Dec-05-08 12:03:01 PST --
h***aFeedback score is 10 to 49 US $10.00 1 Dec-05-08 12:05:11 PST --
r***eFeedback score is 10 to 49 US $10.00 2 Dec-05-08 16:33:27 PST --
t***o US $10.00 1 Dec-08-08 07:24:23 PST --

Offline cchan

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« Reply #28 on: Sat, 06 December 2008, 18:25:53 »
Yay, I ordered one at $6.50 with free shipping. It's scheduled to arrive friday.
HP Envy17: Core i7-2760QM, 8GB DDR3, 128GB Crucial m4 + 750GB Hitachi, Windows 7 Home Premium x64, Cherry ML4100, Logitech M500, HP zr22w
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Offline lexicon

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« Reply #29 on: Sat, 06 December 2008, 18:38:20 »
I got 4, 2@$10, 2@$7, free shipping, on their way.

Do they come in boxes?  

Of course, I already have two.  Beige.  And one black.
IBM Model M 1391401 (1989)
IBM Model M 52G9658 (1993) x2
Unicomp Customizer 101 (black)
Solidtek ASK-6600U
Dell AT101W (way too many)
Dell AT101W (black)
Silicon Graphics AT-101 (1993)
Cherry G84-4100

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #30 on: Sat, 06 December 2008, 18:41:57 »
I got one at $8 because I felt bad. Shipping to my joint now is $8.62. They had to loose their ass on us.

Offline iMav

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« Reply #31 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 03:13:28 »
I got 3 @$7 each ($21 total).  Free shipping, of course.

Offline andb

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« Reply #32 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 05:49:53 »
Well, I hesitated. I was going to order 5, but put it off when I saw there were so many. Well, now Im screwed :)

Not too stressed, I just wanted them around as gifts, don't really need them myself. But I really should have taken this auction more seriously and jumped on it.  :'(

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #33 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 06:19:55 »
I ended up getting 3 for $24.  Great find!


Offline xsphat

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« Reply #34 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 09:47:55 »
I was planning on buying another 2 of them and lobbing off the number pad, but then the Filco with XM (radio?) Alps style switches came out, so F that in the A —*now that I can buy one what's the point?

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #35 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 09:55:52 »
$10 vs $100+ ?  The finish and look-and-feel would be nowhere near the same, though.


Offline xsphat

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« Reply #36 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 14:38:29 »
Quote from: itlnstln;13994
$10 vs $100+ ?  The finish and look-and-feel would be nowhere near the same, though.


So you think I should still look into it? It would be cool to be able to say I modded a keyboard. Hell, if it works out all right, I might not even have to buy the Filco (which doesn't match ANY of the other keyboards in my collection, BTW).

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #37 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 14:56:04 »
Sure.  It would be a fun project and you wouldn't have to spend all the money on the Filco.  On the other hand, the Alps switches in the Dell feel nothing like those in a Northgate as they are not clicky; they are sort of like Alps version of the Cherry browns.  That, and the seller went up in price.  I am thinking that I might try to mod my Evolution with the Dell switches to make them a little less loud for work.


Offline lexicon

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« Reply #38 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 14:56:09 »
Hey, I would rate the fit and finish of an AT101 as well above a G84-4100.  Yeah, it's big and dorky, but it's not flimsy.
IBM Model M 1391401 (1989)
IBM Model M 52G9658 (1993) x2
Unicomp Customizer 101 (black)
Solidtek ASK-6600U
Dell AT101W (way too many)
Dell AT101W (black)
Silicon Graphics AT-101 (1993)
Cherry G84-4100

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #39 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 15:00:34 »
Quote from: lexicon;14031
Hey, I would rate the fit and finish of an AT101 as well above a G84-4100.  Yeah, it's big and dorky, but it's not flimsy.


To me, they are about the same.  I feel that, as far as build quality goes, the 4100 is a little better: a better weight to size ratio and better rubber feet.  I do, however, like the Dell's laser-etched keys better than the 4100's printed keys (and I like the 2-color molded keys of the Northgate better than both :) ).


Offline xsphat

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« Reply #40 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 15:04:47 »
I have the Model M mini, so the Dell would feel right at home. I don't know, it's supposed to get here Friday, so over the week end I'll take it apart.

And if the switches suck, I'll just put the real Alps whites in my MK96 in the new Dell.

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #41 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 15:07:16 »
Quote from: lexicon;14031
big and dorky, but it's not flimsy.


Hey, I resemble that!

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #42 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 15:09:13 »
Quote from: xsphat;14036
I have the Model M mini, so the Dell would feel right at home. I don't know, it's supposed to get here Friday, so over the week end I'll take it apart.

And if the switches suck, I'll just put the real Alps whites in my MK96 in the new Dell.


If you do that, can you post a how-to in the mods section?  I don't think we have anything, currently, that discusses how to change Alps sliders.


Offline xsphat

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« Reply #43 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 15:09:27 »
This is the first time in my life I can say, "Dude, I'm gettin' a Dell"

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #44 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 15:11:50 »
Quote from: itlnstln;14038
If you do that, can you post a how-to in the mods section?  I don't think we have anything, currently, that discusses how to change Alps sliders.


I have a guy to do it for me, but I am sure he would love to document the process, as would I with the rest of the project.

At this point, I don't know where the chip is in the AT101W, so depending on where it is, this might not even be possible.

Offline kodos96

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« Reply #45 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 17:21:50 »
Quote from: itlnstln;14030
I am thinking that I might try to mod my Evolution with the Dell switches to make them a little less loud for work.


Since I'm currently considering doing this exact same mod (alps black from a dell into an evolution), any chance you could document the procedure if you do go ahead with it?

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #46 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 17:41:16 »
Quote from: kodos96;14066
Since I'm currently considering doing this exact same mod (alps black from a dell into an evolution), any chance you could document the procedure if you do go ahead with it?


yea, I wanna watch too...

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Offline bigpook

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« Reply #47 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 18:28:28 »
I just got one for 5 dollars : )
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Offline fkeidjn

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« Reply #48 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 21:36:48 »
Got mine today.  Yes, it's legit and new.  I'm surprised that they have 200+ units still in stock.  How and where did they get so many???
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline cchan

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« Reply #49 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 21:52:26 »
Mine's scheduled to come friday... did I already post about this? Can't wait, even though i"ll wrap it up and open it at Christmas just so my parents don't complain.
HP Envy17: Core i7-2760QM, 8GB DDR3, 128GB Crucial m4 + 750GB Hitachi, Windows 7 Home Premium x64, Cherry ML4100, Logitech M500, HP zr22w
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Offline lexicon

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« Reply #50 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 23:09:21 »
Quote from: fkeidjn;14089
Got mine today.  Yes, it's legit and new.  I'm surprised that they have 200+ units still in stock.  How and where did they get so many???


So was it in a sealed box?

It is very weird that they would have so many new units.  Maybe somewhere out there there's a closet full of nib 1391401s....
IBM Model M 1391401 (1989)
IBM Model M 52G9658 (1993) x2
Unicomp Customizer 101 (black)
Solidtek ASK-6600U
Dell AT101W (way too many)
Dell AT101W (black)
Silicon Graphics AT-101 (1993)
Cherry G84-4100

Offline fkeidjn

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« Reply #51 on: Tue, 09 December 2008, 23:53:00 »
Quote from: lexicon;14098
So was it in a sealed box?

It is very weird that they would have so many new units.  Maybe somewhere out there there's a closet full of nib 1391401s....


It wasn't exactly vacuumed sealed in plastic, but I could tell it was new.
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline iMav

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New Dells ?
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 10 December 2008, 00:04:24 »
These have been showing up from more than one seller lately.  I got two NIB earlier (and ordered 3 more from this latest auction).  Auctions like this (and the mk96's available...even though shipping is more expensive now then previously) are GREAT opportunities to get decent keyboards that you can give away to others.  While some people won't spend the money themselves for quality keyboards, if you put a decent one in front of them, they'll thank you for it.  :)

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #53 on: Wed, 10 December 2008, 00:14:41 »
Quote from: iMav;14102
These have been showing up from more than one seller lately.  I got two NIB earlier (and ordered 3 more from this latest auction).  Auctions like this (and the mk96's available...even though shipping is more expensive now then previously) are GREAT opportunities to get decent keyboards that you can give away to others.  While some people won't spend the money themselves for quality keyboards, if you put a decent one in front of them, they'll thank you for it.  :)


I noticed that the shipping is 20 bucks now on MK96s from the same auction we all got ours from a while back. They are just gouging people, and not shipping the number pad as stated in the auction to boot. What crap.

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #54 on: Wed, 10 December 2008, 06:24:53 »
Quote from: kodos96;14066
Since I'm currently considering doing this exact same mod (alps black from a dell into an evolution), any chance you could document the procedure if you do go ahead with it?


Quote from: wellington1869;14068
yea, I wanna watch too...


Sure.  I think Wellington's latest post in the mods is going to cover most of the details, though, so if you want to get started, I think that would be the best place to start.  I won't be getting to my mod for a few weeks.


Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #55 on: Thu, 11 December 2008, 20:42:39 »
Quote from: xsphat;14036

And if the switches suck, I'll just put the real Alps whites in my MK96 in the new Dell.


I'm about to do this too, lol. That way I get a normal layout with white alps...

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

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Offline fkeidjn

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« Reply #56 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 00:13:27 »
I attached some pics of the unpacking of some more I got, plus the back tag.
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline fkeidjn

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« Reply #57 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 00:14:16 »
And a pic of the guts of the black Alps
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #58 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 00:19:43 »
thanks for the pics!
I was so soured by the gritty board experience I cant even imagine what 'smooth' alps will feel like. I'm looking forward to re-trying it though.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

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Offline fkeidjn

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« Reply #59 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 00:39:02 »
I'm still baffled as to how 250+ units showed up on eBay, and nobody's buying them...
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline bhtooefr

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« Reply #60 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 00:43:14 »
My guess is a company may have went out of business, and liquidated inventory they had lying around?

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #61 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 01:14:24 »
Quote from: fkeidjn;14540
I'm still baffled as to how 250+ units showed up on eBay, and nobody's buying them...


To us they are really nice keyboards, but to other people they are butt assed ugly.

Offline bigpook

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« Reply #62 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 05:37:09 »
If it wasn't for the price, and that they are black alps, I would have passed. And yes, it is an ugly keyboard.
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Offline D-EJ915

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« Reply #63 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 10:40:44 »
I have a feeling the lack of purchases is from the fact that there are no pictures and there was no mention of at101 or whatever in the auction

Offline bhtooefr

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« Reply #64 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 10:41:55 »
Well, also, there's the fact that some people just don't like black Alps...

Offline bigpook

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« Reply #65 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 10:50:30 »
Quote from: D-EJ915;14573
I have a feeling the lack of purchases is from the fact that there are no pictures and there was no mention of at101 or whatever in the auction


Posting pictures of the Dell, in all its ugly glory, could possibly have discouraged ANY purchases : ) Just kidding....honest : )
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Offline bigpook

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« Reply #66 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 10:51:34 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;14574
Well, also, there's the fact that some people just don't like black Alps...

A friend of mine has the Dell with black alps and I swapped one of my model M's for about a week. I thought the black alps were pretty good. He didn't like the model m though, he felt it took too much effort to press the keys.
His Dell was old and used though, and somewhat yellowed. I am curious as to what a new black alps switch feels like.
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Offline lam47

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« Reply #67 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 11:29:46 »
If these were in the UK I would have pissed myself with glee.
Lucky yanks!
Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #68 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 11:51:02 »
Quote from: bigpook;14552
And yes, it is an ugly keyboard.


agreed. Wish it were prettier.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #69 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 11:53:14 »
Quote from: bigpook;14577
He didn't like the model m though, he felt it took too much effort to press the keys.

i agree the M's can feel like too much resistance sometimes, I think thats probably why I'm enjoying swapping them out with the alps board now and then. Maybe in the long run I will try to stick unicomp springs into a model M board (on the assumption that they are slightly lighter).
Quote

I am curious as to what a new black alps switch feels like.

me too, I'm surprised to see so many fans of it here, and for $7 bucks, why not.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline lexicon

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« Reply #70 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 12:23:30 »
I think they're kinda purty, myself, especially the black ones.  I do have a visceral reaction to that Dell logo, however.  It's like using a keyboard with AOL stamped on it.
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #71 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 15:39:03 »
Quote from: lexicon;14594
I think they're kinda purty, myself, especially the black ones.  I do have a visceral reaction to that Dell logo, however.  It's like using a keyboard with AOL stamped on it.


lol That's why I mock it in my sig. I have my Dell keyboard hooked up to my C2D MacBook!

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #72 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 15:40:09 »
Hey Lexicon, are these identical to the Silicon Graphics AT-101 you have?

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #73 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 16:20:40 »
may have to paint mine black just to pretend its cooler than it is

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Offline bigpook

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« Reply #74 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 16:22:03 »
While its still ugly, I think it would look better in black.
What kind of paint do you use?
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #75 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 16:52:02 »
Quote from: bigpook;14628
While its still ugly, I think it would look better in black.
What kind of paint do you use?


I researched this at one point, and the fruits of my research was the following:  (I havent tried this yet but when I do try it, the below is what I'll attempt, I guess):

-1 can of "duplicolor vinyl dye" (glossy black) (use vinyl dye not vinyl paint, most people say can be found at auto parts store, tho I say ebay or amazon)
-1 can of duplicolor "adhesive promotor"
-1 can of "appliance epoxy" sealer
-light sandpaper (lightly sand everything including the keys if you want blank keys and are going to paint them)
-isopropyl alcohol
-nose mask and eye protection (recommended)

I think basically you sand it, clean it with alchol, apply adhesive promoter, apply a one or two layers of the vinyl dye, then final topcoat of the epoxy sealer. The pics I saw looked pretty damn good.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #76 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 16:57:44 »

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #77 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 17:02:18 »
Quote from: xsphat;14642
Check this out


quote: "RITT Dye(used to dye clothes and sold at drug stores, Walgreens, Osco, CVS) on the nylon parts."


thats brilliant! You can have all kinds of colored keys with that, and it wouldnt cover up the lettering.

That gives me a ton of ideas... :) I think I'll paint the dell black and put in denim-blue keys!

(or for that matter I could just remove and dye the whole frame with RITT - even easier than painting, and might get some cool "tinted" effects (since I think RITT would only "tint" the plastic).

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline fkeidjn

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« Reply #78 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 18:12:00 »
Quote from: wellington1869;14644
quote: "RITT Dye(used to dye clothes and sold at drug stores, Walgreens, Osco, CVS) on the nylon parts."


thats brilliant! You can have all kinds of colored keys with that, and it wouldnt cover up the lettering.

That gives me a ton of ideas... :) I think I'll paint the dell black and put in denim-blue keys!

(or for that matter I could just remove and dye the whole frame with RITT - even easier than painting, and might get some cool "tinted" effects (since I think RITT would only "tint" the plastic).


Are you going to document your process?
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #79 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 18:19:13 »
Quote from: fkeidjn;14657
Are you going to document your process?


well it'll be at least a month before I try it, but I have used RITT before quite a bit (to dye clothes) so I'm somewhat familiar with the dying process itself. Based on that (and from what I gathered on the site that XS linked to):
 
--warm or hot water (in my experience, you dont have to boil it on the stovetop, so long as the water is very hot it will work, though with clothes they say the color sticks better if its boiling, but in the case of plastic keys, I dont think it would be wise to boil the plastic, as it may melt, who knows). Bucket (or if on stove, large spagetti saucepan).
--pour in the RITT (use whole package; if you want pink instead of red, buy the pink RITT (rather than trying to use half a packet of the red RITT). RITT comes in every color you can imagine. Also comes in powder versus liquid, either will do.
--Mix it well, put in the keys (or, clothes), and keep mixing, dont stop mixing. The reason you want to keep mixing is because otherwise you will get uneven dying. This is true for clothes and according to some of the comments on that site, is also true of keys). Keep mixing for 10 minutes.


thats it, take them out and let them dry before rinsing. That should more or less work (it will work for me cuz I'm actually only interested in "tinting" the plastic frame and/or keys, not in covering them up completely). If the color isnt dark enough, I think hotter water may be required (and maybe in that case it may make sense to bring water to a boil on the stovetop and then turn off the flame, rather than just using hot tap water).

Also in my experience, some dye colors work much better than others. The colors that work very well are black , navy blue, green, and red. The other colors tend to "deeply tint" rather than color. (Even with the above, sometimes it will take two dye-cycles to get the right shade you want, for instance, if water isnt hot enough, black will produce charcoal gray (which actually personally i'd prefer), and red will produce dark pink, etc). So you may want to apply it multiple times.

On the whole this does sound like a relatively very easy way to add a splash of color to the keyboard without having to mess with messy paints and sanding and all that. RITT costs like $1, is available everywhere, and in a rainbow of colors, and all you'd have to do is pop off keys and frame, dye it, pop them back on 10 minutes later.

When I do do it, I'll definitely document the result with pictures :)

P.S, and dont forget to buy red RITT just for the escape key :D

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #80 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 18:20:13 »
This puts me off trying Rit dye:

Quote from:
Down side, dye doesnt penetrate the plastic very much so any scratches will show up a bright white.


I tried some satin vinyl dye on an old keyboard with printed ABS keycaps and the letter still sort of shows so it might need sanding first. It also seems to change the finish. Part of the key was glossy from wear before, now it's satin like the rest of the key. It doesn't seem to scratch easily but I don't know how it will look with long-term use.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #81 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 18:32:41 »
Quote from: Chloe;14659
This puts me off trying Rit dye:
I tried some satin vinyl dye on an old keyboard...


hmmm, once again chloe opts for the hard way... ;)

I guess I'm not expecting huge gashes in it while its on my desk...  also if that happens it only means another 10 minutes in the dye bath ;)

but yes, vinyl dye is a more industrial (and more desirable) solution if you have the time and space to do the work right...

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #82 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 18:45:47 »
Well, I'm not really happy with the finish, it still looks sprayed. It could be the brand I used (VHT). I think I'd rather keep it unpainted.

Quote from: bigpook;14552
If it wasn't for the price, and that they are black alps, I would have passed. And yes, it is an ugly keyboard.

I used to have a beige AT102R. They look better in black, but they still look like big old keyboards to me. Since developing RSI my priorities have changed, the switches are more important to me than looks. I could be typing on a Luxeed...

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #83 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 18:50:15 »
I wonder if the frame from a rubber dome dell "quietkey" keyboard will fit the at101? Those are sometimes avail in black for pretty cheap.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline bigpook

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« Reply #84 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 18:58:08 »
Quote from: Chloe;14669
Well, I'm not really happy with the finish, it still looks sprayed. It could be the brand I used (VHT). I think I'd rather keep it unpainted.



I used to have a beige AT102R. They look better in black, but they still look like big old keyboards to me. Since developing RSI my priorities have changed, the switches are more important to me than looks. I could be typing on a Luxeed...


There is no way of getting around that, they are big old keyboards : )
The Dell will never be my daily keyboard ( the numpad kills it for me ), but its a cheap way to play with black alps. For what I paid for it, it wouldn't bother me to toss it when I was done with it.

I agree with you on the importance of the switches, but the form factor is a big influence for me also. Right now, I think the HHKB and Filco mini form factor and quality construction are at the top of my list. An honourable mention goes to the IBM model M spacesaver...
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Offline bigpook

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« Reply #85 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 18:59:27 »
I had to google Luxeed....not sure how to respond to that : )
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Offline Chloe

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« Reply #86 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 19:07:57 »
Quote from: bigpook;14673
I agree with you on the importance of the switches, but the form factor is a big influence for me also. Right now, I think the HHKB and Filco mini form factor and quality construction are at the top of my list. An honourable mention goes to the IBM model M spacesaver...

It is to me too, and layout. I prefer compact keyboards like the tenkeyless Filco. The all-black HHKB looks really nice too but I don't think I can adapt to the shortcuts. I've become more aware of construction quality since getting the Cherry keyboards. They have flaws I've not seen in keyboards before.

Offline bigpook

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« Reply #87 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 19:16:35 »
I don't have any Cherry keyboards to gauge. But I can tell you that the Filco Tenless is one well made keyboard. I think it is the best made keyboard that I have right now.
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Offline bhtooefr

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« Reply #88 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 19:20:03 »
I think the Luxeed comment is a reference to that Gigabyte gaming keyboard review thread, in which someone said that girls only like low profile flashing keyboards, and then a female friend of mine said that she would get the Luxeed (a low profile flashing keyboard) if she were a proper geek. :p

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #89 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 19:22:23 »
It's not actually, I wanted one (and a Filco tenkeyless) long before I joined geekhack. :)

Offline bhtooefr

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« Reply #90 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 19:23:47 »
You do realize, because of your response (about low profile flashing keyboards) in that thread, we can never let you live that down, right? :p

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #91 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 19:27:53 »
Well honestly, I don't think these things are as gendered as some make out. I get frustrated when I'm reminded of what a girl is "supposed" to like.

Offline lexicon

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« Reply #92 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 21:46:44 »
Quote from: xsphat;14621
Hey Lexicon, are these identical to the Silicon Graphics AT-101 you have?

No.  The form factor is identical, but the SGI is somewhat heavier and feels more solid.  The switches also have some sort of damper on them so they don't click as much. The keys also don't wobble like the keys on the Dells and have a little friction the Dells don't have.  The cable is longer and thicker.  It just feels a bit more expensive.

Well this is weird.  I just pried off a keycap on the SGI and they seem to be Alps switches with a white stem and a black surrounding mount.  The Dells have a black stem.  Are the SGI switches whilte Alps with some kind of damper?
IBM Model M 1391401 (1989)
IBM Model M 52G9658 (1993) x2
Unicomp Customizer 101 (black)
Solidtek ASK-6600U
Dell AT101W (way too many)
Dell AT101W (black)
Silicon Graphics AT-101 (1993)
Cherry G84-4100

Offline bigpook

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« Reply #93 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 21:56:48 »
Quote from: Chloe;14688
Well honestly, I don't think these things are as gendered as some make out. I get frustrated when I'm reminded of what a girl is "supposed" to like.


I think its not so much the low profile as it is the flashing lights : )
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #94 on: Sat, 13 December 2008, 22:50:28 »
got an old dell quietkey board that I'm going to try out the RITT Process on. I'm going to try to come as close as possible to that realforce 86 with dark charcoal keys and frame and bright red escape key.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #95 on: Sun, 14 December 2008, 00:49:07 »
I'm glad you guys like that link, I've been sitting on it for a while. I though tit was good idea and maybe a good way to get a charcoal keyboard with black keys like my old HHKB Pro 2 (which I must admit I'm starting to miss ...).

I'll watch your experiment with interest, Wellington.

Quote from: lexicon;14692
No.  The form factor is identical, but the SGI is somewhat heavier and feels more solid.  The switches also have some sort of damper on them so they don't click as much. The keys also don't wobble like the keys on the Dells and have a little friction the Dells don't have.  The cable is longer and thicker.  It just feels a bit more expensive.

Well this is weird.  I just pried off a keycap on the SGI and they seem to be Alps switches with a white stem and a black surrounding mount.  The Dells have a black stem.  Are the SGI switches whilte Alps with some kind of damper?


Thanks for the detailed and complete answer. I really liked the look of SGIs when they came up on eBay and I saw they had white Alps, but Robert from Northgate Repair told me not to buy one; to go with the Focus 2001 instead. Maybe that's why. I always wondered about that, come to think of it.

more about the Alps blacks. I still like them, but only after using them for a while. They feel kind of like really heavy Topres, so they might loosen up and be pretty nice, but for now I don't know.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #96 on: Sun, 14 December 2008, 01:25:56 »
Quote from: xsphat;14705
I though tit was good idea


I am struggling with myself trying to choose between a plethora of responses (sorry, I didnt get past that line, I'll go back and read the rest of your post ;)

Update: Ok, having thought long upon the opportunity that has thus presented itself, I've settled upon a response.
And my response is simply:

"qft".

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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #97 on: Sun, 14 December 2008, 01:28:35 »
Oops. I'm not gonna fix tit either.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #98 on: Sun, 14 December 2008, 01:29:46 »
Quote

more about the Alps blacks. I still like them, but only after using them for a while. They feel kind of like really heavy Topres, so they might loosen up and be pretty nice, but for now I don't know.

I'm still convinced that grays are going to be lighter (resistance) than the blacks, tho I dont have proof yet. Will know soon as my blacks get here...

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #99 on: Sun, 14 December 2008, 01:34:25 »
Quote from: xsphat;14708
Oops. I'm not gonna fix tit either.


:D

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline fkeidjn

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« Reply #100 on: Sun, 14 December 2008, 03:27:42 »
Quote from: xsphat;14705
more about the Alps blacks. I still like them, but only after using them for a while. They feel kind of like really heavy Topres, so they might loosen up and be pretty nice, but for now I don't know.

All you need are the rubber dampers, and then you have an SGI keyboard.
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline iMav

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« Reply #101 on: Sun, 14 December 2008, 07:29:12 »
Reminds me of these two threads on macrumors:

Tangerine Macbook
Orange iBook

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #102 on: Sun, 14 December 2008, 21:54:11 »
So after just two days, I had to switch out the Dell, even if just for a few days.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #103 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 05:36:22 »
I got myself a rather worn out AT102W a month ago, but I might take a chance with one of these considering that theyre new and cheap. I could even transfer the switches from the US layout one to my UK layout one if I was sufficiently bored :)

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #104 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 06:04:58 »
Quote from: fkeidjn;14715
All you need are the rubber dampers, and then you have an SGI keyboard.


You can't retro-fit the rubber dampers into a switch that doesn't have them already, unfortunately.  This is waht I am going to try to attempt in my Northgate mod (by switching the sliders out with those form an Apple 'board).


Offline lexicon

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« Reply #105 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 11:35:36 »
Is it possible to remove the dampers in an SGI board?  It would be cool to convert it to straight white Alps.  Alps switches seem pretty easy to get into from the top -- where is the bumper?
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #106 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 11:40:08 »
Quote from: lexicon;14884
Is it possible to remove the dampers in an SGI board?  It would be cool to convert it to straight white Alps.  Alps switches seem pretty easy to get into from the top -- where is the bumper?


Yes, It should be easy to remove.  See here:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot2.htm

If you do get rid of them, send them to me.  I will have to find sliders that will take them, but they should come in handy if some of the Apple ones I get are dry-rotten.


Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #107 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 11:58:41 »
we need a rubber dampers "bank" ;)

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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #108 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 12:09:02 »
The biggest issue with it is needing the sliders to use the dampers.  It would have been nice if they would have used the same slider design across all the switches.  Then, production costs could have been cheaper and they would just add the dampers as necessary.  Oh well, it just makes modding that much harder.


Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #109 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 12:28:30 »
Quote from: itlnstln;14891
The  It would have been nice if they would have used the same slider design across all the switches.  Then, production costs could have been cheaper and they would just add the dampers as necessary. .


exactly, I'm surprised they didnt do that.

I guess thing to do is acquire a set of those sliders from an AEKII and keep them for life (xferring them into any new alps boards you get, as you go).

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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #110 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 13:25:29 »
Quote from: wellington1869;14892
exactly, I'm surprised they didnt do that.

I guess thing to do is acquire a set of those sliders from an AEKII and keep them for life (xferring them into any new alps boards you get, as you go).


Pretty much.  I am not looking forward to doing the mod.  It is going to be a monotonous, tedious PITA.


Offline D-EJ915

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« Reply #111 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 16:11:14 »
I got my 3 today (took long enough lol, ups).  Anyway the force needed to actually get the keys down is a lot lower than I'm used to except on the HHKB2 which is probably about the same or lighter.
« Last Edit: Fri, 20 November 2020, 18:44:11 by D-EJ915 »

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« Reply #112 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 16:26:59 »
I took my Dell apart today, since I go the the new keys for the Topre, and it looks like I could hack off the number pad. I'm gonna see what I can do about getting the proper tools and I'll keep you cats posted as to whether I am going to attempt the mod.

Offline D-EJ915

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« Reply #113 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 16:38:39 »
Quote from: xsphat;14945
I took my Dell apart today, since I go the the new keys for the Topre, and it looks like I could hack off the number pad. I'm gonna see what I can do about getting the proper tools and I'll keep you cats posted as to whether I am going to attempt the mod.
sounds cool.

Are the keys always this difficult to pop off?  Granted I was using yo-yo string wrapped around either side of the switch under the key but dang.

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #114 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 16:41:58 »
Alps keys are always a pain to get off.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #115 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 16:44:00 »
Quote from: D-EJ915;14946


Are the keys always this difficult to pop off?  Granted I was using yo-yo string wrapped around either side of the switch under the key but dang.


use the "two paperclips" method.

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Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #116 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 16:44:38 »
Quote from: xsphat;14945
I took my Dell apart today, since I go the the new keys for the Topre, and it looks like I could hack off the number pad. I'm gonna see what I can do about getting the proper tools and I'll keep you cats posted as to whether I am going to attempt the mod.
Better saw the pcb somewhere outside, the dust is toxic. And if you use for ex. a Dremel there will be lots of dust.

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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #117 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 16:50:44 »
Quote from: lowpoly;14950
Better saw the pcb somewhere outside, the dust is toxic. And if you use for ex. a Dremel there will be a lot of dust.


Thanks for the tip. My biggest concern with the project is the two metal plates the PCB is sandwiched between. The rest should be cake.

Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #118 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 16:58:06 »
IIRC, there's only one metal plate. The one on the back is just a piece of cardboard? Anyway, a Dremel would take care of everything in no time.

The most difficult part is probably getting nice cuts through the case. Hard to do without machinery. Maybe with a miter-box saw. I'd probably let a company do it with a milling machine. You can put little circular saw blades on those. You will have clean cuts and everything will fit nicely afterwards.

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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #119 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 16:58:53 »
Quote from: xsphat;14951
Thanks for the tip. My biggest concern with the project is the two metal plates the PCB is sandwiched between. The rest should be cake.


the metal plates are going to be a B**ch.
Cant you take it to home depot and have them cut it for $5 or $10?
They've done that for me with copper plumbing pipe and etc.

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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #120 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 18:59:43 »
lowpoly, there are two in mine — one on the top and one of the bottom.

Offline fkeidjn

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« Reply #121 on: Tue, 16 December 2008, 00:30:08 »
Would it be possible to chop off the excess plastic, to make it more like a Filco Tenkeyless?
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #122 on: Tue, 16 December 2008, 01:57:44 »
Maybe, but that would kill what the keyboard is - fugly!

And if I was to do that I would just build a new case. I want to modify the Dell (and get rid of that stupid logo), so that is a good idea, but not my intent.

Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #123 on: Tue, 16 December 2008, 04:21:51 »
Quote from: xsphat;14967
lowpoly, there are two in mine — one on the top and one of the bottom.
Oh, haven't seen that before (and I took a few apart). Does that mean you can't access the circuit side of the pcb? Because it's possibile that you cut vital paths when cutting off the numpad.

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Offline cchan

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« Reply #124 on: Tue, 16 December 2008, 05:55:25 »
My AT101W has a metal plate on top, and a metallized cardboard one on the bottom. Could it be that xsphat is mistaking the metallized cardboard sheet for an actual metal plate?
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Offline iMav

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« Reply #125 on: Tue, 16 December 2008, 06:40:38 »
Quote from: Tales;14995
My AT101W has a metal plate on top, and a metallized cardboard one on the bottom. Could it be that xsphat is mistaking the metallized cardboard sheet for an actual metal plate?

I'm sure xsphat's AT101W is the same as everyone else's.

Offline bigpook

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« Reply #126 on: Wed, 17 December 2008, 18:52:02 »
Got my Dell today, I take back the negative comments. Granted, its full size, but its new. Its even got that new keyboard smell : ) And the key feel is very nice.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #127 on: Wed, 17 December 2008, 20:24:41 »
Quote from: bigpook;15175
Got my Dell today, I take back the negative comments. Granted, its full size, but its new. Its even got that new keyboard smell : ) And the key feel is very nice.


wow, these have been a big hit huh? Mine is due in on the 22nd.

So I wonder how long an alps board lasts before turning into the gritty rattly monsters we've all experienced. "8 to 10 million keystrokes" is supposed to be the switch lifespan -- but how much is that in years? (assuming its one's main board).

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Offline bigpook

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« Reply #128 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 04:13:14 »
Quote from: wellington1869;15177
wow, these have been a big hit huh? Mine is due in on the 22nd.

So I wonder how long an alps board lasts before turning into the gritty rattly monsters we've all experienced. "8 to 10 million keystrokes" is supposed to be the switch lifespan -- but how much is that in years? (assuming its one's main board).


I will probably never find out. I doubt it will get used all that much. The gritty rattly monsters you mention is making me wonder. Do all alp switches degrade quickly? Or was/is it something else. I have a keyboard coming with white alps, will that the suffer the same fate?
Maybe I should have went with the blue cherries.
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #129 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 04:42:02 »
Pook, it's just like everything else in life — you get back what you put out. My 20+ year old Northgate was smooth, as have been all the new Alps and the vast majority of my used Alps keyboards. Just take care of it the way you were going to anyway and you'll be fine.

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #130 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 05:58:59 »
Quote from: xsphat;15210
Pook, it's just like everything else in life — you get back what you put out. My 20+ year old Northgate was smooth, as have been all the new Alps and the vast majority of my used Alps keyboards. Just take care of it the way you were going to anyway and you'll be fine.


Exactly.  The ones Wellington and I got initially were stored in a fairly dirty and dusty location.  I spent about 10-15 min. taking them apart and bloeing them out with an air duster.  There was all types of dust bunnies and dirt flying out of there.  I think that was why the switches felt gritty.  I have had my Northgate for awhile, and, other than the switches loosening up a little with use, they fell just as smooth as when I got them.  When I do my mod on the Northgate, I am going to blow out the inside of each switch as I replace the guts to ensure they stay clean.


Offline bigpook

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« Reply #131 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 06:56:58 »
Thanks for the context. I feel better now. : )
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #132 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 07:36:56 »
Quote from: bigpook;15214
Thanks for the context. I feel better now. : )


And, sh*t, it's $10.  If the 'board sucks after a year or two of use, I still think that's a better deal than any other $10 'board on the market.  That's why I got 3. ;)


Offline xsphat

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« Reply #133 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 11:24:25 »
They are nice keyboards.

Offline bigpook

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« Reply #134 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 13:34:40 »
Quote from: itlnstln;15215
And, sh*t, it's $10.  If the 'board sucks after a year or two of use, I still think that's a better deal than any other $10 'board on the market.  That's why I got 3. ;)

Well yes, thats true. I should have got a couple instead of one. It will be hard to find them again at that price in the future.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #135 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 13:53:00 »
Quote from: itlnstln;15212
Exactly.  The ones Wellington and I got initially were stored in a fairly dirty and dusty location.  I spent about 10-15 min. taking them apart and bloeing them out with an air duster.  There was all types of dust bunnies and dirt flying out of there.  I think that was why the switches felt gritty.


that would explain it I guess. That makes me feel better about alps too.

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Offline kodos96

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« Reply #136 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 13:55:42 »
Quote from: itlnstln;15212
When I do my mod on the Northgate...


Not sure if you've already talked about it in another thread, but what mod(s) are you planning on your Northgate? (I'm assuming you're talking about the Evolution). As an Evolution owner with modding plans myself, I'm just curious what others are up to.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #137 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 14:03:42 »
Quote from: kodos96;15240
Not sure if you've already talked about it in another thread, but what mod(s) are you planning on your Northgate? (I'm assuming you're talking about the Evolution). As an Evolution owner with modding plans myself, I'm just curious what others are up to.


he's going to silence it completely by addressing each of the sources of noise on it: click, bottoming clack, topping clack, resonance.  :)
(using, respectively: black alps leaf, rubber dampers from AEKii, rubber dampers from AEKii, and sound absorbing anti-resonance pads.)

Is that about right itln?

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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #138 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 14:28:08 »
Quote from: webwit;15243
Now for the alternative solution ;) You know how those Model M's have those speaker grills with nothing behind them? I'm thinking about using it, in combination with the Sennheiser PX-300  noise-canceling headphones which I have. I'd need a small amplifier, and ideally it would not catch sound (reaction time..NC is better with continuous sounds) but be triggered by the keys, with, I guess, some pre-recorded sound. But that would be very difficult..


wow, now thats a mod! :)

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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #139 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 14:58:37 »
Quote from: wellington1869;15241
he's going to silence it completely by addressing each of the sources of noise on it: click, bottoming clack, topping clack, resonance.  :)
(using, respectively: black alps leaf, rubber dampers from AEKii, rubber dampers from AEKii, and sound absorbing anti-resonance pads.)

Is that about right itln?


10-4!


Offline kodos96

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« Reply #140 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 16:12:58 »
Quote from: wellington1869;15241
he's going to silence it completely by addressing each of the sources of noise on it: click, bottoming clack, topping clack, resonance.  :)
(using, respectively: black alps leaf, rubber dampers from AEKii, rubber dampers from AEKii, and sound absorbing anti-resonance pads.)


Why the black leaf springs instead of just using the AEKii for everything? Are AEKii's leaf springs too clicky?

I like the feel of my the white's so much that I'm not sure I want to mess with the leaf springs (especially if that Dell I tried the other day was in fact black alps - I didnt like the feel of them at all). So I'm thinking I might try AEKii sliders/dampers but leave the white's leaf srpings - I think I could live with the click, if I could just eliminate the clack. But I'll have to find an AEKii first and see how it goes (if anyone knows where I can get an AEKii btw, please let me know).

Offline kodos96

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« Reply #141 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 16:22:52 »
Quote from: webwit;15243
Now for the alternative solution ;) You know how those Model M's have those speaker grills with nothing behind them? I'm thinking about using it, in combination with the Sennheiser PX-300  noise-canceling headphones which I have. I'd need a small amplifier, and ideally it would not catch sound (reaction time..NC is better with continuous sounds) but be triggered by the keys, with, I guess, some pre-recorded sound. But that would be very difficult..

I had this same idea before (not for a keyboard, but for other noise-cancelling needs). But what I'm wondering is whether noise-cancelling works with free-standing speakers (as opposed to headphones). It seems like having the cancellation waveform come from a source not localized right by your ears might make it not work... my main source of scepticism is just that if this DID work, somebody would have done it already.... cause you could make a Get Smart "cone of silence" kinda thing, which would be so cool that, if it were possible, you'd expect someone to have already productized it, and have infomertials for it on late night TV....

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #142 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 16:25:04 »
The click is unnecessary in the Alps switches and just adds sound without adding much feel.  In a Model M, the click IS the actuation of the switch in that when the spring buckles and, thus, clicks, the hammer presses on the membrane.  On the Alps, the click is just the leaf slamming against the casing of the switch; the switch is activated by another mechanism.  I found a "parts only" AEKII on ebay for about $3.


Offline kodos96

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« Reply #143 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 16:26:23 »
Quote from: itlnstln;15262
The click is unnecessary in the Alps switches and just adds sound without adding much feel.  In a Model M, the click IS the actuation of the switch in that when the spring buckles and, thus, clicks, the hammer presses on the membrane.  On the Alps, the click is just the leaf slamming against the casing of the switch; the switch is activated by another mechanism.  I found a "parts only" AEKII on ebay for about $3.


Well then what accounts for the difference in feel between whites and blacks?

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #144 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 16:36:25 »
Quote from: kodos96;15263
Well then what accounts for the difference in feel between whites and blacks?


The minimal (IMO) difference in feel in balcks and whites has to do with the leaf snapping back on the casing of the switch.  See here:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot3.htm


Offline kodos96

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« Reply #145 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 16:41:30 »
Quote from: itlnstln;15265
The minimal (IMO) difference in feel in balcks and whites has to do with the leaf snapping back on the casing of the switch.  See here:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot3.htm


The Dell I tried the other day felt WAY different (in a bad way) than my Northgate (whites).... but I wasn't able to verify what keyboard that actually was... did Dell ever make any keyboards with non-membrane switches other than alps black?

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #146 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 16:43:30 »
The differences I feel between my Dells and my Northgate have to do more with the case of the keyboard (plastic vs. steel, respectively) than the switches.  To me, the switches, themselves, feel very silmilar aside from a little more snap in the tactile bump on the whites.


Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #147 on: Thu, 18 December 2008, 19:11:36 »
any chance you can post before/after sound files?

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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #148 on: Fri, 19 December 2008, 12:56:06 »
does anyone know if this dell (at101w) has alps or strongmans?

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« Reply #149 on: Fri, 19 December 2008, 13:30:55 »
Alps.


Offline ch_123

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« Reply #150 on: Fri, 19 December 2008, 17:45:44 »
I got mine for $7, hopefully it wont take it too long to get shipped over to Europe :)

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #151 on: Fri, 19 December 2008, 19:02:46 »
Quote from: itlnstln;15363
Alps.


In that case I'd bet my gray strongmans are lighter and softer than the blacks in the dell... I guess I'll find out for sure on the 22nd when my dell is to arrive...

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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #152 on: Sat, 20 December 2008, 08:53:25 »
Quote from: wellington1869;15406
In that case I'd bet my gray strongmans are lighter and softer than the blacks in the dell... I guess I'll find out for sure on the 22nd when my dell is to arrive...


You'll be getting a present for my birthday.


Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #153 on: Sat, 20 December 2008, 12:59:23 »
Quote from: itlnstln;15518
You'll be getting a present for my birthday.


doesnt seem fair does it :p

My latest theory is that, since I believe strongmans are lighter and softer than alps, the grays are basically "black strongmans" (and are going to be lighter and softer than the blacks alps).
Unless anyone knows of any actual black strongmans? (And if you do, I'd like to buy them!)

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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #154 on: Sat, 20 December 2008, 13:23:23 »
black strongman:


Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #155 on: Sat, 20 December 2008, 13:34:45 »
Quote from: xsphat;15550
black strongman:


:D lols
pretty sure he cant touch type

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Offline bigpook

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« Reply #156 on: Sat, 20 December 2008, 13:34:48 »
Quote from: xsphat;15550
black strongman:

Show Image


You know, I always wondered what was underneath those keys.
Thanks for clearing that up.
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #157 on: Sat, 20 December 2008, 13:44:01 »
Quote from: wellington1869;15554
:D lols
pretty sure he cant touch type


He doesn't need to - he just stares down the keys until they type for him!!

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« Reply #158 on: Sat, 20 December 2008, 21:29:46 »
Quote from: wellington1869;15554
:D lols
pretty sure he cant touch type


I wouldn't tell him that...


Offline D-EJ915

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New Dells ?
« Reply #159 on: Mon, 22 December 2008, 15:38:58 »
I just noticed that the key caps on my SGI USB keyboards and these Dell alps ones use the same connector and are interchangeable aside from the fact that the dells are shaped  and giant sized.




Offline lexicon

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New Dells ?
« Reply #160 on: Mon, 22 December 2008, 15:43:07 »
Quote from: D-EJ915;15837
I just noticed that the key caps on my SGI USB keyboards and these Dell alps ones use the same connector and are interchangeable aside from the fact that the dells are shaped  and giant sized.




Are the SGI USB keyboards rubber dome, or, if not, what switches do they have?
IBM Model M 1391401 (1989)
IBM Model M 52G9658 (1993) x2
Unicomp Customizer 101 (black)
Solidtek ASK-6600U
Dell AT101W (way too many)
Dell AT101W (black)
Silicon Graphics AT-101 (1993)
Cherry G84-4100

Offline D-EJ915

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New Dells ?
« Reply #161 on: Mon, 22 December 2008, 17:12:20 »
Quote from: lexicon;15838
Are the SGI USB keyboards rubber dome, or, if not, what switches do they have?

rubber dome with little slidey thingies http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/enthauptet/bin/sgi_usb.jpg

Offline itlnstln

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New Dells ?
« Reply #162 on: Tue, 23 December 2008, 08:37:13 »
Ahh.  These are very similar to what I found in the Apple 'board I bought for my mod.  In the pic (which wasn't very close), they looked like Alps switches, but I was very disappointed. :(


Offline lam47

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New Dells ?
« Reply #163 on: Wed, 24 December 2008, 13:12:40 »
Just been given a 102w. Black alps are linier right?
I cant seem to get the key caps off to clean it out though. Are they particularly stiff?
Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline iMav

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New Dells ?
« Reply #164 on: Wed, 24 December 2008, 13:21:41 »
Quote from: lam47;16078
Just been given a 102w. Black alps are linier right?


Tactile, non-clicky.

Offline xsphat

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New Dells ?
« Reply #165 on: Wed, 24 December 2008, 15:42:33 »
Quote from: lam47;16078
Are they particularly stiff?


Yes. Alps keys are known for that.

Offline lam47

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New Dells ?
« Reply #166 on: Wed, 24 December 2008, 15:52:23 »
Here it is. I have to say its in good shape. The keys to me feel like they have less travel than the cherries. Feels a little odd to type on. Also they are firmer than the white alps.
How do the new ones feel? are they looser or even stiffer?
What do you guys think of them?



Edit.
Didnt take long before I had to open it :)
The PCB has the best solder job I have seen in any of my boards. Its very clean.
Also the PCB is backed with a foiled piece of card.
Lastly is a useless picture of the chip as the flask bleached it out.
Enjoy.


Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline bigpook

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New Dells ?
« Reply #167 on: Wed, 24 December 2008, 16:54:11 »
Quote from: xsphat;16080
Yes. Alps keys are known for that.

And I thought it was just me. Do they unstiffen over time?

Time being measured in months not years : )
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline Chloe

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New Dells ?
« Reply #168 on: Thu, 25 December 2008, 03:45:42 »
Quote from: itlnstln;15927
Ahh.  These are very similar to what I found in the Apple 'board I bought for my mod.  In the pic (which wasn't very close), they looked like Alps switches, but I was very disappointed. :(

Do you know the model number?

Offline Chloe

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New Dells ?
« Reply #169 on: Thu, 25 December 2008, 04:01:42 »
Quote from: bigpook;16082
And I thought it was just me. Do they unstiffen over time?

The first time I removed them I was not expecting them to be so stiff. They are not so difficult now I've removed them once.