[IC] CNC Aluminum Case for Topre RealForce TKL keyboards

[norbauer]

Corian option seems very interesting and unique, but I'm a little concerned about durability, especially during shipping. I understand cleaning should not be a problem given the smooth surface?

Also, do I read it correctly that the weight of Corian case would be about 2/3 of aluminum one? Doesn't it make the Corian one a bit on the "light" side?

Not really, because the case has more volume than a normal aluminum case due to the design. I figure therefore that the weight will be similar to the Cooler Master cases I made recently in aluminum, which had a smaller overall material volume. Corian is definitely not a lightweight material.

[cynviloq]

Corian option seems very interesting and unique, but I'm a little concerned about durability, especially during shipping. I understand cleaning should not be a problem given the smooth surface?

Also, do I read it correctly that the weight of Corian case would be about 2/3 of aluminum one? Doesn't it make the Corian one a bit on the "light" side?

Not really, because the case has more volume than a normal aluminum case due to the design. I figure therefore that the weight will be similar to the Cooler Master cases I made recently in aluminum, which had a smaller overall material volume. Corian is definitely not a lightweight material.

Also, they make kitchen countertops out of Corian so based on normal use case, it should be pretty durable! If packaging is similar to the NT case GB, then I would believe that damage during shipping should not be an issue.

[MMKB]

Interesting to know how Corian case sounds.

[IonutZ]

I'm down.


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[pr0ximity]

Would be more interested in nice CNC'd aluminum with hard anodizing than Corian, if I could have my way. Not enough hard ano around here. An 87U case would be right up my alley thoigh, I'll be keeping an eye out. Nothing too gaudy please, I like my Realforce for its understated, office-camoflauge aesthetic

[alienman82]

have you seen the digilog case?  they made use of the extra space with a usb hub.  would be nice to see something like that here.

[afrokobe]

what relatively would the weight difference be between corian and aluminium?

Hey afrokobe!

Density of Corian is 1.7g/mL and Aluminum is 2.7g/mL

Hey Ryan!

Is there some consumer product, preferably relatively cheap, that I could buy to kind of get the feel of corian?  Pretty sure I have felt corian countertops, but kind of hard to imagine a case made out of it haha.  Really excited for the case though!

[Trente]

Definitely interested, But also wondering if there would be one fore realforce RGB coming later or the 104 key version like the HG profile keyboard

[norbauer]

what relatively would the weight difference be between corian and aluminium?

Hey afrokobe!

Density of Corian is 1.7g/mL and Aluminum is 2.7g/mL

Hey Ryan!

Is there some consumer product, preferably relatively cheap, that I could buy to kind of get the feel of corian?  Pretty sure I have felt corian countertops, but kind of hard to imagine a case made out of it haha.  Really excited for the case though!

When I have a sample, I'll do good pics and maybe a video, so I think that should give you a good sense. They use it a lot in newer/nicer Starbucks locations as countertop material, if that helps.

[Panzerhawx]

Hey Norbauer!

First of all, great work. Been onboard with your cases since R1 Novatouch. Any chance of a version with Winkey blockers? Similar to the RF 10th AE edition.

Pic for reference: http://imgur.com/pNBsChm

It would really complete the custom look.

Interesting. Maybe we could do two versions, since it's a very minor change to the geometry. Solid would be nicer than inserts, I feel.

Forgive my ignorance, but what's the idea with winkey blockers? Is it that some countries don't use winkeys?

I definitely agree, and that was what I was implying - in the vein of the insert blockers of the 10th AE case, but as solid extrusions that are part of the top case.

The idea with winkey blockers is not because of a regional difference. It is an aesthetic choice carried from vintage boards - back in the day, a lot of keyboards did not feature Winkeys because operating systems simply did not use them. Here is a link about layouts for reference: https://www.keychatter.com/form-factors-and-layouts/

Realforce boards carry the same "retro aesthetic" (with the exception of the RF RGB), and feature the same key spacings for a winkeyless design to be plausible, which is why I want to see this happen. I'm sure many others in this community (especially our retro-loving friends at Deskthority!) would love to see a winkeyless version of your case. In fact, the winkeyless design has been prominent recently, with almost every Korean custom board I've seen.

Ah, ok. Cool. Thanks for clarifying! This will be an issue to explore once I'm further along with negotiating with a factory (i.e., asking them to do two variant designs), but I'll bear it in mind. If anybody else would like this option, please speak up so I have a sense of how interested folks would be.

Awesome. Hopefully if there's enough interest, perhaps you could add it as a checkbox on the IC form (alongside other suggestions people have made?) 

[K.Mak]

Ah nuts, I just sold my 87U because I wasn't super happy with my detachable cable mods and now here's a case with USB C as an option.

[jorgenslee]

Would there be an option for hard anodization?

[poolside]

Reading the description, the underside of the case would remain exposed, right?
Can we see the inside shape of the case without that "hidden" gray plate shown in the CAD renders? I can't see where it attaches to the case.

My apologies, but I don't understand your question. Maybe we've got our wires crossed on terminology. So, the the thing that comes out of the original Realforce keyboard I'm calling the plate (which also incidentally has a PCB attached to it). The Corian/aluminum thing we're putting it into, we'll call the case. The there is another "plate" (which is to say a contoured piece of sheet metal) which we can call the back cover; it attached to the underside of the case with little tabs and chamfered screws that hold it down into a recessed groove at the bottom of the case. So, no, the underside of the case isn't exposed except for that back cover; it faces down toward the table but you'll never it when the keyboard is resting on a table. Is that what you mean by the plate being "hidden?" Sorry for my confusion. Please clarify.

Yes, that's what I meant. Thanks for clarifying.
When screwed into position, will that back cover be flush with the underside of the case? I mean, the case and the back cover will then be one smooth surface?

You've got it. The back cover may be ever so slightly recessed (like 0.25mm or something) for a little technical safety margin, but effectively it will be flush.

Will the back cover be made out of steel or aluminum? Could it even be Corian?

[WarCommand]

Can't wait for this, although it's a bummer that the top bezel can't just be done away with entirely.

[Troif]

I agree that the top bezel could be away totally if possible. Anyway I am IN again in your business! Count on me.

[norbauer]

I agree that the top bezel could be away totally if possible. Anyway I am IN again in your business! Count on me.

Not unless you're OK sawing your PCB into two with a hacksaw. ;P

This may void one's warranty.

[norbauer]

Will the back cover be made out of steel or aluminum? Could it even be Corian?

I hadn't yet decided. I was going to get prototypes made in both materials. If aluminum can work, it's preferable, but I was worried about bowing since it's thin, so steel might provide better physical characteristics.

I hadn't thought about Corian, actually! That would be super cool, if the case ends up being in Corian. I shall investigate!

[norbauer]

All you folks asking about "hard" (Type III) anodizing: you do know that means you can't get your case in colors, right? All hard ano coatings are a dark olive color and can't be dyed, other than black.

I put "hard" in quotes above because it's not actually actually markedly harder than "soft" (Type II) anodizing; the main difference is that the oxide layer is thicker.

In case there is a notion out there that "hard" ano is just a nicer version of "soft," I just wanted to point out that a cursory inspection of the terms doesn't tell the whole story.

[pr0ximity]

All you folks asking about "hard" (Type III) anodizing: you do know that means you can't get your case in colors, right? All hard ano coatings are a dark olive color and can't be dyed, other than black.

I put "hard" in quotes above because it's not actually actually markedly harder than "soft" (Type II) anodizing; the main difference is that the oxide layer is thicker.

In case there is a notion out there that "hard" ano is just a nicer version of "soft," I just wanted to point out that a cursory inspection of the terms doesn't tell the whole story.

Yes.

[eksuen]

Doesn't look like you were able to make the "top" bezel any narrower than the stock case, but I'm curious about whether Corian will work.

[nastrovje]

Awesome norbauer!

Looks very nice and I have waited for a custom case for my favourite board a long time now.

So definitely interested!

I also love the idea of using Corian. I think it feels quite exquisite.

Is there a problem with using more than those two colours as a material? Or how many orders would you need, so it would make sense to offer another? I would be really interested in "Hot" or "Royal Red" for example, which I found after looking through DuPont's color catalogue. But I guess they must have more than shown here.
Link: http://www.dupont.de/produkte-und-dienstleistungen/construction-materials/surface-design-materials/marken/corian-mineralwerkstoff/produkte/corian-all-colors.html

I am also one of the guys heavily interested in the WKL version with blockers.
e/ Altough then there is the question which key you block, because you would need to block where the "Menu" key on the 87u is, to achieve a real WKL on a 86u, which I would prefer. Besides being useless for a 86u, it would also look weird blocking the right windows key on the 87u and keeping Menu key and Ctrl. Wouldn't it?

pic showing difference between 86u/87u: https://i.imgur.com/tqzcosT.jpg

The idea of a USB Hub like in the digilog case, sounds awesome aswell. Good idea alienman.

Optically I'm actually a fan of the standard top bezel. No need to try to make it smaller. It only looks so dominant on pictures but in real life and especially from the angle you normally look at it, I think it even adds to the case.

e2/ under me: I love the show too man!

[alienman82]

I love the sopranos

[nmur]

all you guys wanting to take away the top bezel need to embrace the forehead

it's part of what makes a RF a RF

[eksuen]

all you guys wanting to take away the top bezel need to embrace the forehead

it's part of what makes a RF a RF

forehead?! more like fivehead.

[jorgenslee]

All you folks asking about "hard" (Type III) anodizing: you do know that means you can't get your case in colors, right? All hard ano coatings are a dark olive color and can't be dyed, other than black.

I put "hard" in quotes above because it's not actually actually markedly harder than "soft" (Type II) anodizing; the main difference is that the oxide layer is thicker.

In case there is a notion out there that "hard" ano is just a nicer version of "soft," I just wanted to point out that a cursory inspection of the terms doesn't tell the whole story.

Yeah, I'm fine with black. Is the factory supporting hard anod?

[mrkevint]

I'm in! Glad that this is happening.

I've always wanted a Digilog case but they're impossible to find nowadays. It looks like this design will be a nice improvement.

Quick question: Will this case work on a Realforce TKL with a JIS layout? I assume that it will but I just want to confirm.

[norbauer]

I'm in! Glad that this is happening.

I've always wanted a Digilog case but they're impossible to find nowadays. It looks like this design will be a nice improvement.

Quick question: Will this case work on a Realforce TKL with a JIS layout? I assume that it will but I just want to confirm.

I'm also assuming this, but without having test it yet.

[norbauer]

For those curious about what white Corian looks and feels like, go to your local Apple store and check out the iPad displays. The stylus holder is machined Corian.

[FSund]

The white Corian is very tempting.

Will the Corian come in a polished finish?

[axtran]

I'm in! Glad that this is happening.

I've always wanted a Digilog case but they're impossible to find nowadays. It looks like this design will be a nice improvement.

Quick question: Will this case work on a Realforce TKL with a JIS layout? I assume that it will but I just want to confirm.

A Norbauer™ will be much better quality than a Digilog.

[mrkevint]

I'm in! Glad that this is happening.

I've always wanted a Digilog case but they're impossible to find nowadays. It looks like this design will be a nice improvement.

Quick question: Will this case work on a Realforce TKL with a JIS layout? I assume that it will but I just want to confirm.

A Norbauer™ will be much better quality than a Digilog.

Yeah I've read some mixed things about the Digilog case. I'm glad that there is an alternative.

I have a Norbatouch case so I have no doubts  .

[cynviloq]

Besides the marble and solid white/black finishes - is Corian able to be produced in solid colors?

[norbauer]

Besides the marble and solid white/black finishes - is Corian able to be produced in solid colors?

Yes, it comes in all manner of different colors, actually—both solid and patterned (though the survey numbers so far don't suggest to me that we'd hit quantities sufficient to do more than one or two colors at most).

[dgneo]

Just curious, what are the chances of getting a WKL one off? 

I've an 86u and have been hunting for a WKL case for a while (this one in specific).

[norbauer]

Just curious, what are the chances of getting a WKL one off? 

I've an 86u and have been hunting for a WKL case for a while (this one in specific).

If and when a GB happens, I'm seriously considering offering a Winkeyless option—if the economics make it feasible to do two designs.

[dgneo]

Just curious, what are the chances of getting a WKL one off? 

I've an 86u and have been hunting for a WKL case for a while (this one in specific).

If and when a GB happens, I'm seriously considering offering a Winkeyless option—if the economics make it feasible to do two designs.

That's what I like to hear! Very intrigued

[avid]

Norbauer, you should clearly quit your job and do cases fulltime. Super hyped about this. Realforce are one of my favourite keyboards.
You clearly need to be a guest on top clack and talk about awesome cases.

One thing i enjoy with my realforce is actually the realforce logo. Is this something that will be incorporated in the case?
I think the idea of using quilted leather is pretty cool and something like a quilted wrist rest would be fantastic.

[nmur]

Norbauer, you should clearly quit your job and do cases fulltime. Super hyped about this. Realforce are one of my favourite keyboards.
You clearly need to be a guest on top clack and talk about awesome cases.

One thing i enjoy with my realforce is actually the realforce logo. Is this something that will be incorporated in the case?
I think the idea of using quilted leather is pretty cool and something like a quilted wrist rest would be fantastic.

i think it was mentioned earlier in the thread that there could be legal issues with something like that

i'd love it too though. i wonder if i could take it to a shop afterwards and get it machined myself...

[romevi]

I just saw this.

Come to me.

[Jokrik]

wow, just came across this! very interested

Just curious, what are the chances of getting a WKL one off? 

I've an 86u and have been hunting for a WKL case for a while (this one in specific).

If and when a GB happens, I'm seriously considering offering a Winkeyless option—if the economics make it feasible to do two designs.

That's what I like to hear! Very intrigued

and you know we are on the same page @dgneo

[avid]

realforce 87 in black is probably one of the best looking keyboards. I really like the understated design and contrary to most i like the big upper unused space. The colors that would look best in my eyes would be a matte black and a chrome silver option.

[elcubismo]

I really hoped that this was an HHKB case, how long till that one 😥 (I know you don't love 60%s)?

If I were to do a sub-TKL case, it would be more likely the Leopold FC660C

An FC660C case would be phenomenal! I'm still jealous of the mx version that came out on massdrop.

[adamcobabe]

Is it just me or is this triggering other people too? Norbauer, I'm sure you've thought about this, but what about just continuing that line to the end? Why does the riser need to end here? Love the Corian concept, btw.

[norbauer]

Show Image

Is it just me or is this triggering other people too? Norbauer, I'm sure you've thought about this, but what about just continuing that line to the end? Why does the riser need to end here? Love the Corian concept, btw.

This is an issue of manufacturability. If we brought the material to such a narrow point, it would be very brittle and prone to breaking (if Corian), or bending (if aluminum).

[B1G_B1RD]

Sounds like a cool idea but as someone who worked at a countertop manufacturing company I can say that Corian is quite brittle when you machine it too thin. I doubt that the case could be machined without breaking on the bed unless it is done in several passes at a low speed. I would think you wouldn't want to mill it any thinner than 3/16" at any point. Its a very dense material but has poor tensile strength. With the thin parts on the TKL case it would be very susceptible to breaking with moderate impact. You can, however, use threaded inserts as long as there is enough thickness around it.

[norbauer]

Sounds like a cool idea but as someone who worked at a countertop manufacturing company I can say that Corian is quite brittle when you machine it too thin. I doubt that the case could be machined without breaking on the bed unless it is done in several passes at a low speed. I would think you wouldn't want to mill it any thinner than 3/16" at any point. Its a very dense material but has poor tensile strength. With the thin parts on the TKL case it would be very susceptible to breaking with moderate impact. You can, however, use threaded inserts as long as there is enough thickness around it.

I may be coming around to a similar view myself. Based on my tests so far, it can definitely be machined in this geometry if correct feeds and speeds are used, but I share your concern about brittleness of the end product. That being said, I have notes and examples of a number of consumer products being machined from Corian (including even an electronics housing), so I don't want to give up too early. I'm continuing to experiment.

FWIW, the survey data also suggests that people are at best ambivalent and maybe even prefer the idea of good old aluminum, so I'm exploring that avenue in parallel right now. I feel like aluminum calls for a slightly different design, so I'm working on that right now and then will get a prototype—maybe with hard ano (in black) as an option as some have suggested/requested.

[B1G_B1RD]

I may be coming around to a similar view myself. Based on my tests so far, it can definitely be machined in this geometry if correct feeds and speeds are used, but I share your concern about brittleness of the end product. That being said, I have notes and examples of a number of consumer products being machined from Corian (including even an electronics housing), so I don't want to give up too early. I'm continuing to experiment.

FWIW, the survey data also suggests that people are at best ambivalent and maybe even prefer the idea of good old aluminum, so I'm exploring that avenue in parallel right now. I feel like aluminum calls for a slightly different design, so I'm working on that right now and then will get a prototype—maybe with hard ano (in black) as an option as some have suggested/requested.

If you can find a company that can machine it properly then you should give a prototype a shot but i think it would be a lot more expensive than aluminum since the finishing process is more delicate. If you did have a successful prototype I might suggest some level of drop tests to test its durability. I think Corian would be a very sweet keyboard case but in a more simple and robust form.

[eksuen]

I may be coming around to a similar view myself. Based on my tests so far, it can definitely be machined in this geometry if correct feeds and speeds are used, but I share your concern about brittleness of the end product. That being said, I have notes and examples of a number of consumer products being machined from Corian (including even an electronics housing), so I don't want to give up too early. I'm continuing to experiment.

FWIW, the survey data also suggests that people are at best ambivalent and maybe even prefer the idea of good old aluminum, so I'm exploring that avenue in parallel right now. I feel like aluminum calls for a slightly different design, so I'm working on that right now and then will get a prototype—maybe with hard ano (in black) as an option as some have suggested/requested.

If you can find a company that can machine it properly then you should give a prototype a shot but i think it would be a lot more expensive than aluminum since the finishing process is more delicate. If you did have a successful prototype I might suggest some level of drop tests to test its durability. I think Corian would be a very sweet keyboard case but in a more simple and robust form.

Like a 60% case?

[B1G_B1RD]

I may be coming around to a similar view myself. Based on my tests so far, it can definitely be machined in this geometry if correct feeds and speeds are used, but I share your concern about brittleness of the end product. That being said, I have notes and examples of a number of consumer products being machined from Corian (including even an electronics housing), so I don't want to give up too early. I'm continuing to experiment.

FWIW, the survey data also suggests that people are at best ambivalent and maybe even prefer the idea of good old aluminum, so I'm exploring that avenue in parallel right now. I feel like aluminum calls for a slightly different design, so I'm working on that right now and then will get a prototype—maybe with hard ano (in black) as an option as some have suggested/requested.

If you can find a company that can machine it properly then you should give a prototype a shot but i think it would be a lot more expensive than aluminum since the finishing process is more delicate. If you did have a successful prototype I might suggest some level of drop tests to test its durability. I think Corian would be a very sweet keyboard case but in a more simple and robust form.

Like a 60% case?

Ya, any case that would only have an outer boundary with some beefy bezels. 40%, 60%, 75%. Corian comes in sheets of 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4" so any depth more than that would require extra man hours to glue together. Glue joints are typically invisible on lighter colors. You would see it on black.

[need]

While I respect you wanting to leave your mark, and while this would probably not be a deal breaker to me, I would prefer a case without branding.

I actually prefer not to leave my mark. There are exceptions to this were branding can add some beautiful ornamentation to products (the snow caps on Mont Blanc products, for example), but generally speaking I don't like branding for its own sake unless it add something aesthetically to the product. I was mainly responding to requests by others above, but generally speaking I tend to have a strong anti-branding bias and prefer to let the product speak for itself.

As much as I like plain designs, a maker's mark makes total sense to me for anything that has a sense of craftsmanship to it. When it's overdone though, it gets distasteful quickly.