Author Topic: [IC] GMK Gravity Well  (Read 6236 times)

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Offline spingo

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[IC] GMK Gravity Well
« on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 00:24:12 »
GMK Gravity Well
Might change the name to GMK Singularity

Photon Ring Red

Graviton Purple

Inspiration
Designs are based off the effects of gravity with black holes being a major aesthetic to the set.
The set features a novelty G that resembles a black hole but the negative space within still reads as a 'G'.
Yes, the choice of the G was intentional and just so happens to start off the word Gravity. Sometimes you get lucky like that.

Light can't escape black holes so the legends closest to the 'G' and consequentially the other novelty black hole keys are darkened (esc and enter with consideration for the arrow keys and numpad set).

I love sets that play with Alphas and wanted to design something new and fun. I've been working on this every day for as many hours as I can fit in and expect to see a good amount of changes in the coming days/weeks.

What to expect next
The number one complaint (rightfully so) was kitting. I've come up with a base kit that covers the standard units you see in a set; but I've added "black out" keys as well that can be used next to the novelty keys. As I was kitting and taking into consideration how many ways we enthusiasts can set up a board it became abundantly clear that the number of black out keys can get out of hand; especially taking 40s into consideration. I've updated the IC form to show the newest renders of the kits and added a question or two.

Currently, what I expect to come is a fully monochromatic base set with the novelty G and alpha G provided.
More than likely the numpad will be a child set but will follow the black hole design that the Alpha set does. If that's too costly I'll do something to bring some gravity to its appeal. (see what I did there)

A novelty set which will include one or both of the color ways. I plan on having novelties for Escape, Enter, Control, Arrows, Numpad, and 2 novelties for rows 1-4.

I'll also be uploading renders as I get more designs completed.

I post renders on my Discord and I'm very open to feedback.


Renders
I'm currently a one man team (if we don't count all of you beautiful people giving me advice and feedback) and I've taught myself enough blender to do these very mediocre renders.




Addressing some comments in the IC and here
Apologies on how incomplete this post is and started. I'm working hard (not rushing) to get this to a place where people can appreciate what I started with and see where it's going.

I am listening. I promise. I'm listening to all of you in the comments, Discord, and the IC form. Obviously it doesn't mean I'm going to try to win everyone over but I do want to take the time to say thank you. You guys are helping me shape this and it's greatly appreciated.

I'd love to kit this baby out to count for every board but I know cost is big for a lot of us. I have 5 keyboards now and the idea of buying another kit and caps isn't exactly something I'm trying to explain to future broke me.

I have been contacted by some people at GMK about getting a price on molds and color matching. I've asked them to wait until I'm further along in the project but it's exciting to hear from them.

I have also been in contact with some more people from the community on Discord, although I don't know if they want me naming names. But special thanks to them as well!

I've decided to continue updating here. I've been getting more and more IC forms and a lot of people starting to show interest. It doesn't hurt and it allows everyone to watch me stumble through this with some form of grace (I hope).

If you want to bring attention to the IC and how it develops over the next few, please consider adding this tag to your signature

Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=122469.0][img width=320 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/pku78C6.png[/img][/url]

« Last Edit: Tue, 13 February 2024, 22:43:24 by spingo »

Offline DirtyGingy

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 00:34:44 »
So, are you going to try to get GMK to do new Alpha molds?

Offline spingo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 00:36:54 »
Short answer: yes, if it has enough support yadda yadda.

I know it drives the price up but I do like the GMK sets I own now. If it ends up being cost prohibitive or even just physically prohibitive I'll move onto another solution or bite the bullet and move on.

Offline anson42

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 01:01:05 »
I'm in for the arrow keys doing the Spider Man pointing at Spider Man meme. Oh, wait, I can do that now! Seriously though, I like where you're going with the set and would love to see it come to fruition with GMK or someone else. GLWIC.

Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 02:37:31 »
Love the concept, but like previously mentioned, if GMK isn't willing to or reasonably quote you on new alpha molds, you could consider KKB or DMK. I think DMK actually did something recently where they mirrored the alphas and ePBT did something similar with ePBT Cool Kids

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Offline keepoto

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 03:14:37 »
alphas dont seem that doable with GMK (or any doubleshot manu at all); it's a cool concept but you have to factor in usability for ordinary users as well

colours remind me of some nice GMK sets so it's definitely a pleasant combination, and isnt too "similar" to any set on top of my head

the R2 novs seems a bit more difficult to understand intuitively or at first sight compared to other novs

since this is a concept test no comments on kitting but the huge numpad enter looks a bit wack haha

edit: also logically shouldn't QWE etc rotate more than RTY etc?


Offline keepoto

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 03:16:09 »
Love the concept, but like previously mentioned, if GMK isn't willing to or reasonably quote you on new alpha molds, you could consider KKB or DMK. I think DMK actually did something recently where they mirrored the alphas and ePBT did something similar with ePBT Cool Kids

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those were all dyesub

Offline noxtace

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 05:16:37 »
This is actually a love at first sight set for me. I really hope you can pull this off with gmk. If gmk canít do it, maybe try hitting up dcx? But their font is a bit meh.

The only gripe i have with this set is the ĎGí key. The letter and the icon itself I dig, but that purple base looks very off. Iíd rather have the base stay white.

Offline Manukbs_

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 06:42:38 »
It's complicated, and it needs more work, but do it, it's a really cool concept

Offline Rafa_n

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 06:43:16 »
alphas dont seem that doable with GMK (or any doubleshot manu at all); it's a cool concept but you have to factor in usability for ordinary users as well

Why do you say this? They will require new molds, just like any other novelty.
It will be a bit more expensive, but very doable.

Offline Fraaaan

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 06:47:19 »
I'm not sure why everyone is raising concerns over new molds when it's something GMK regularly does without problems. A set with custom alpha legends, Chaos Theory, literally shipped a few weeks ago and it's a similar idea to this. Is it going to be expensive? Sure. But people who say GMK can't or won't do this don't really have any idea what they're talking about. People also make custom novelties for tons of keysets. As long as it's possible, and the vendor is willing to pay, GMK will happily do what is requested of them.

Familiarize yourself with GMK's mold restrictions and guidelines and get to work on some new legends. For example, 3 out of 4 of your novelties don't look possible to doubleshot, but I'm just eyeballing it as someone who's never worked on creating legends so maybe I'm wrong. If you need more info, contact vendors and GMK. It seems like this comment section is full of ignorance so take all advice given with a grain of salt.

The kitting needs a lot of work but I'm sure you're aware of that. Please check other GMK keycap sets from the last few months to see how kitting is generally done.

edit: here's a google drive link for anyone who can't open the one above
« Last Edit: Sun, 11 February 2024, 08:23:37 by Fraaaan »

Offline Jae-3soteric

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 06:48:45 »
Itís no more difficult to do than the Chaos Theory reverse alphas in theory so itís def possible. It will mean all new moulds for those keys though which will increase the cost.

Itís def a really cool concept (and as a science fan one I really like) just needs some fine tuning in the details. Could def make use of some of GMKs new effects as well


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Offline vhaarr

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 06:52:25 »
Familiarize yourself with GMK's mold restrictions and guidelines

Can you host that document in a way that makes it accessible? Link just asks me to log in with an MS account and when I do I get an error message saying I don't have access to the document.
Let the Holy Handgrenades rain.
Hammering on an old Happy Hacking Pro 2. Still going strong!

Offline Jae-3soteric

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 06:56:26 »
http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/65c8c3f01a4bf/Guidelines_for_Custom_GMK_Keycap_Set.pdf
This should work. Let me know if it doesnít


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Offline Fraaaan

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 08:22:00 »
Familiarize yourself with GMK's mold restrictions and guidelines

Can you host that document in a way that makes it accessible? Link just asks me to log in with an MS account and when I do I get an error message saying I don't have access to the document.

My bad, wasn't aware of this. I uploaded it to my Google Drive, it should work for everyone now.

Offline spingo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 11:02:25 »
I'm in for the arrow keys doing the Spider Man pointing at Spider Man meme. Oh, wait, I can do that now! Seriously though, I like where you're going with the set and would love to see it come to fruition with GMK or someone else. GLWIC.

I found out any set can do this when I designed them lol. It's a hidden meme on a board.

Offline spingo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 11:11:12 »
Love the concept, but like previously mentioned, if GMK isn't willing to or reasonably quote you on new alpha molds, you could consider KKB or DMK. I think DMK actually did something recently where they mirrored the alphas and ePBT did something similar with ePBT Cool Kids

I want to avoid printed legends to avoid any kind of fading or bleeding. I've had some so-so experience with pbt printed caps.

the R2 novs seems a bit more difficult to understand intuitively or at first sight compared to other novs

since this is a concept test no comments on kitting but the huge numpad enter looks a bit wack haha

edit: also logically shouldn't QWE etc rotate more than RTY etc?
I agree - I know novelties need some fine tuning. They may end up scrapped in a later update but as of now I do like the concepts. And thanks for the heads up on readability of the R2 novelties.

This render is a modified render kit someone made for free download. I plan on picking up KRK so I can better represent what I want in the design. I hear good things about KRK.

Yes, logically you would see the outer rows skew more but it doesn't translate well in design-anese.

Offline Cylent

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 12:14:18 »
You specifically asked for feedback and criticism, so I won't sugarcoat it.

This "IC" is raw and extremely undercooked. At this point you must know that this is essentially just a blank concept post, not an IC. The kitting is a joke and the novelties leave a lot to be desired. There are no renders, and given that you stated you intend on buying KRK, you're aware of these issues. Your concept image should have been posted in a discord chat rather than on geekhack, but here we are.

On the idea itself, it's interesting but half-baked. The most interesting thing about the concept is the altered alphas, and honestly the set would be more interesting as "black hole" or "wormhole" concept.

As others have pointed out, unless you are really, really intent on having GMK manufacture this, I recommend going the dyesub route. It will allow you to do more detailed novelties and edit more of the legends without the exorbitant cost of new molds. For example, your current concept has only the alphas being altered by the "gravity well." Why not the mods and other keys? Could you create custom mods that better fit the theme? There's a lot further you can go to push this idea to its logical conclusion. Personally, going with GMK and going for only new molds on the alphas feels like a waste of a decent idea. And to address your other comment OP, dyesub is not the same as pad printing.

I recommend that you take some feedback from this "IC," buy KRK, and get some feedback from other designers in some of the discord communities. I know I've been pretty mean in this comment, but consider it tough love. Feel free to reach out on discord, I'm happy to help.
« Last Edit: Sun, 11 February 2024, 15:23:15 by Cylent »

Offline keepoto

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 13:29:04 »
What is wrong with you people this is literally a check of interest, stop enforcing disco gaming adventures

Offline xLeHoy

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 13:35:26 »
I like the idea for sure. Will be hard to pull off but good luck!

PS: Complaining about the kitting for example is pretty much unwarranted criticism as this is an Interest Check about the general idea

Offline Fraaaan

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 15:13:09 »


What is wrong with you people this is literally a check of interest, stop enforcing disco gaming adventures

The person you're getting upset about is contributing way more to this IC than you ever could.

You literally said this:

alphas dont seem that doable with GMK (or any doubleshot manu at all); it's a cool concept but you have to factor in usability for ordinary users as well

This is the biggest load of crap I've read on this website since Kokaloo's last comment. Why would these alphas not be possible to doubleshot and what the hell is "usability for ordinary users?"


Offline spingo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 15:21:16 »
You specifically asked for feedback and criticism, so I won't sugarcoat it.

This "IC" is raw and extremely undercooked. At this point you must know that this is essentially just a blank concept post, not an IC. The kitting is a joke and the novelties leave a lot to be desired. There are no renders, and given that you stated you intend on buying KRK, you're aware of these issues. Your concept image should have been posted in a discord chat rather than on geekhack, but here we are.

On the idea itself, it's interesting but half-baked. The most interesting thing about the concept is the altered alphas, and honestly the set would be more interesting as "black hole" or "wormhole" concept.

As others have pointed out, unless you are really, really intent on having GMK manufacture this, I recommend going the dyesub route. It will allow you to do more detailed novelties and edit more of the legends without the exorbitant cost of new molds. For example, your current concept has only the alphas being altered by the "gravity well." Why not the mods and other keys? Could you create custom mods that better fit the theme? There's a lot further you can go to push this idea to its logical conclusion. Personally, going with GMK and going for only new molds on the alphas feels like a waste of a decent idea. And to address your other comment OP, dyesub is not the same as pad printing.

I recommend that you take some feedback from this "IC," buy KRK, and get some feedback from other designers in some of the discord communities. I know I've been pretty mean in this comment, but consider it tough love. Feel free to reach out on discord, I'm happy to help.
Thanks so much for writing this out!

I bought KRK this morning and have been working on the actual kit. It looks more like an actual IC. I promise to update at least the base set with a proper kit tonight.

I'm reworking the novelties but because of the idea of going GMK I didn't want to mod more than I felt was necessary to get the design I wanted. Being my first IC and all I don't know how much this many molds will bump cost. If it's crazy I'll abandon GMK. It was my first choice but I'm not married to it.

I also like the challenge of restriction to breed creativity. There's also something about mold injected caps that I prefer and I don't know what it is. It doesn't mean it has to be GMK but it was a desire.

I do appreciate the feedback and I don't think it was mean spirited. I'll keep designing and updating as frequently as I can. Hopefully I can win some people over by design.

I've reached out to a few designers on discord but haven't had a response yet. I have had some luck on Reddit.

I'll think over what you said, thanks again.
« Last Edit: Sun, 11 February 2024, 15:25:37 by spingo »

Offline Cylent

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 15:38:14 »
I bought KRK this morning and have been working on the actual kit. It looks more like an actual IC. I promise to update at least the base set with a proper kit tonight.

I'm reworking the novelties but because of the idea of going GMK I didn't want to mod more than I felt was necessary to get the design I wanted. Being my first IC and all I don't know how much this many molds will bump cost. If it's crazy I'll abandon GMK. It was my first choice but I'm not married to it.
Please don't rush to update this post asap. Allow yourself to fully cook a meal before updating/posting a new IC thread. Posting a standardized KRK base kit render overnight won't change much. This is why I said you should go into discord and get feedback from other designers. It's important to take your time and let ideas marinate, rather than rushing to make constant small updates.

IIRC for new molds for GMK it's $150/mold if you want it to be exclusive, $75/mold if the molds are open to other designers to use (assumes prices have not increased in the last couple years). That's about $3,000 if the design is public and it's just for alphas, not including numbers, mods, novelties, etc. That's either an upfront cost or will be baked into the kit cost - either way, since you'll likely be running at 250 MOQ, it will make your base kit noticeably more expensive. In today's market, that may be a meaningful barrier. Again, it's doable, but will limit your design choices considerably.

Offline spingo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 16:56:21 »
I bought KRK this morning and have been working on the actual kit. It looks more like an actual IC. I promise to update at least the base set with a proper kit tonight.

I'm reworking the novelties but because of the idea of going GMK I didn't want to mod more than I felt was necessary to get the design I wanted. Being my first IC and all I don't know how much this many molds will bump cost. If it's crazy I'll abandon GMK. It was my first choice but I'm not married to it.
Please don't rush to update this post asap. Allow yourself to fully cook a meal before updating/posting a new IC thread. Posting a standardized KRK base kit render overnight won't change much. This is why I said you should go into discord and get feedback from other designers. It's important to take your time and let ideas marinate, rather than rushing to make constant small updates.

IIRC for new molds for GMK it's $150/mold if you want it to be exclusive, $75/mold if the molds are open to other designers to use (assumes prices have not increased in the last couple years). That's about $3,000 if the design is public and it's just for alphas, not including numbers, mods, novelties, etc. That's either an upfront cost or will be baked into the kit cost - either way, since you'll likely be running at 250 MOQ, it will make your base kit noticeably more expensive. In today's market, that may be a meaningful barrier. Again, it's doable, but will limit your design choices considerably.

I hear ya. I think I'll cook it a lot more before you hear much on it. I did end up talking to a designer and he was a boat load of help. So, thank you everyone who took the time to respond to me and I hope to update you in the near future. A lot of new ideas have come to me and what you say is true.

Offline mr_foggy

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 17:18:17 »
needs work, but itís a very cool idea. totally doable with gmk, too.
just stay away from pbt and youíll have my attention.

Offline conternecticus

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 11 February 2024, 19:51:51 »
Definitely needs work on kitting, but the core idea (colors and alphas) is very nice. Will there be any collabs? GLWIC!

Offline spingo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 12 February 2024, 00:18:54 »
Definitely needs work on kitting, but the core idea (colors and alphas) is very nice. Will there be any collabs? GLWIC!

I would love to collaborate with some people

Offline QweertyBree

  • Posts: 4
Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 12 February 2024, 05:33:27 »
Really love this concept and wishing you all the luck in finding out how to make it come to life. I would love to follow your progress if you plan on posting it anywhere. I've thought about getting into designing myself but haven't dedicated time or mental resources to it yet. But I am really psyched for this idea.

Offline spingo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 12 February 2024, 09:15:27 »
Really love this concept and wishing you all the luck in finding out how to make it come to life. I would love to follow your progress if you plan on posting it anywhere. I've thought about getting into designing myself but haven't dedicated time or mental resources to it yet. But I am really psyched for this idea.
Updates here will be sporadic. If there's anything big I'll update the post but ideally I'll be running a proper IC in the future with kits, color ways, and support.

Because it's so early I am currently compulsively checking on the thread and IC form while I'm making changes.

Offline SirYeetWilliams

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 13 February 2024, 12:12:20 »
this is dope if it's doable
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Offline spingo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well - looking for criticism and feedback
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 13 February 2024, 21:31:31 »
Updated main post showing some renders, design choices, and showing off a new novelty key design.

Offline Klexos

  • Posts: 9
Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 13 February 2024, 23:38:59 »
It's exciting to see the changes made after your initial posting of this. Although the concept might not be as baked as this community desires, I enjoy seeing the apparent enthusiasm you're putting towards designing this and how you're taking input. Good luck moving forward!

Offline offbrandbiscuit

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 21 February 2024, 09:01:30 »
This is the one

Offline mgsickler

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 21 February 2024, 09:11:23 »
I really like this idea and find it fun. I do think that you should lean more into the gravity well idea, and have the legends become distorted and not just angled. Almost like they're being sucked in.

Offline spingo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gravity Well
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 22 February 2024, 14:31:28 »
I really like this idea and find it fun. I do think that you should lean more into the gravity well idea, and have the legends become distorted and not just angled. Almost like they're being sucked in.
Appreciate it! That is a design I've been playing with. I figured if just offsetting the legends requires a new mold, might as well go for broke :D.

I'm nearly done with the novelty set, hopefully have an update by this weekend and I'll be revisiting the alphas as well as some more color combinations. It's really starting to come together.