Author Topic: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews  (Read 9022 times)

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Offline psdp

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Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« on: Mon, 01 February 2016, 17:45:14 »
I really appreciate the huge wealth of information everyone has shared in this forum.  I wanted to contribute my experiences incase someone else could find it of value, here are my reviews of a few keyboards.  I am not a gamer, use for programming and typing.  I am a large tall person (big fat guy) with fairly large hands, people have called my fingers meat hooks.

Dell L100 rev A00 -- Have used various crummy keyboards over the years.  Was helping clean out stuff from an office that had been closed and saved an L100 from the trash.   Ergonomically it was more comfortable to type on than the one I was using at the time.   I prefer to lay my arms on the desk and do not like wrist rests so the L100 with it's lower profile was a step up from my previous keyboard.    Have read bunch of people here think the L100 is crap, from my perspective at the time, it was a one eyed man in the land of the blind.

Dell SK-8115 rev A03 DJ331 -- Couple years later and another office closing junk clearing, I came across this model and it was a nice feeling upgrade above the L100.  Got my hands on a few other SK-8115's and noticed they each had the same model number but different revision and part numbers.  Each has a different feel to them, I liked the A03 DJ331 the best.  At the time the board had hardly any use to it and the keys were lighter to type on, crisper feeling and it wasn't too loud.    The outer keys like the left shift and some others on the right have always had a  little bit of bind to them if I didn't press on them correctly or was typing too fast, but later those keys started binding more to the point it was annoying and I went looking for a new keyboard.   

Dell KB212-B DJ454 Rev A01 -- Was at Goodwill, saw they had a pile of keyboards so I rummaged through them and found the kb212-b that looked new.  Sticker had a price of $2.99 so bought it and put it into service.  This was more quiet than the SK-8115, easier to press keys and quieter but I didn't like the angle so I taped a 1/2” stick under the back side to elevate it a bit so was almost same height and angle as the 8115.   It was better to type on than the sk-8115, even though the board itself looked and felt cheaper and flimsier.

Dell KB216p N6R8G  rev A01  chiclet -- Saw one of these on ebay so I ordered it to give it a try.  In the progressions of keyboards I was using, each succeeding one is better than last, but oh boy this one is so much better than all the previous!   It has what looks like chiclet keys, but read in another thread a true “chiclet” is a completely flat key like the Radio Shack Color Computer has (had one of those back in the day).  The KB216p keys have a slight depression in the middle to help guide my fingers to their center point.  The board is a lot slimmer, lower and closer to the desk which at first I didn't like but after a few minutes it won me over.   WAY quieter than the others, this is the most quiet and comfortable keyboard I have used to date.   Tested the H key to see how much force it took to press the key, stacked some nickels on the key and when I got to 11, the key went from up to down.   

Gateron Reds -- Wife is a serious gamer and she bought a mechanical keyboard, she told me I was a dinosaur and I needed to research what mechanical keys are like.  Tried hers and man that keyboard is noisy compared to mine, but noticed how different the keys feel.  My KB216p is a membrane so the force it takes to press the keys is that full stack of 11 nickels and then it collapses the dome and makes the connection.  On her mechanical key, it only takes a stack of 7 or 8 nickels to get the key moving down enough to make contact.   At 11 nickels the key will bottom out.   Read in another thread the point of mechanical keys is not to bottom out, but only to press enough to make contact so results in less jarring on the fingers, don't have to bottom out like with a membrane.   So I looked around and ordered a mechanical keyboard, will give it a try and see. 
Dell KB216p Chiclet -- Nuthin but mush and I love it.

Offline Macsmasher

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 01:34:32 »
I'm 58 and have been on PCs since the 8088. Do yourself a favor and just get a Topre keyboard. The only problem for you will be that your search is over. Sorry buddy. If you want to keep searching for the game changing keyboard, do NOT buy a RF or HHKB.


The reason I don't call myself a 'keyboard enthusiast' is because I have Topre. I no longer search. Game over pal.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 07:15:23 »
Do yourself a favor and just get a Topre keyboard.

Possibly true if you like quiet.

If you can stand some noise, ancient IBM iron is bulletproof and immensely satisfying.
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Offline psdp

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 15:07:52 »
I remember when I finally got my 8088, my dad bought it for me and he only had an 8086 so was a real ego booster for me.  :)  I worked for him and the previous computers we were the TRS-80 Model III and I had a color computer. 

Thanks for the tip about the Topre switches, I just checked youtube and found a great video that had a bunch of typing comparing the Topre on a  HHKB2 to Cherry switches on a Razer.   Will have to consider the Topre for a full size board. 

But horrors to me, I stumbled on the 40% thread and now I gotta build one of those just for a fun side project.   From what I understand, the Topre only comes with custom membranes, you can't get those as singles for custom builds?   Any chance you know of a key switch that is (or close to) as quiet as the Topre?
Dell KB216p Chiclet -- Nuthin but mush and I love it.

Offline Homenubbie

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 15:15:45 »
What did you order?

Offline psdp

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 15:40:39 »
I haven't ordered anything yet. 
Dell KB216p Chiclet -- Nuthin but mush and I love it.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 17:07:31 »
THOSE CHICLET DELL'S OMG. We have them at the office. How can one type on that!!? Not to flame, but seriously. They are even worse than 5$ kb's you can find.

Please explain me what's nice about them? The older ones may be nicer, but the new ones (1yr old). They feel mushy, wobbly, still hard when bottoming out although it is rubber dome, skips keys, spacebar jams after a year, feet break off, print wears off, they change color in the sun (the gray ones). the list goes on.
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Offline psdp

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 17:51:29 »
HEhehehe... must be an acquired taste for us sophisticated folks.   :)   I might be using a different one than the one you are talking about, what is the model you are talking about at your office? 



Dell KB216p Chiclet -- Nuthin but mush and I love it.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 18:03:22 »
HEhehehe... must be an acquired taste for us sophisticated folks.   :)   I might be using a different one than the one you are talking about, what is the model you are talking about at your office?

I'll have to look it up tomorrow. Will post a pic as well.
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Offline Macsmasher

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 18:34:50 »
I remember when I finally got my 8088, my dad bought it for me and he only had an 8086 so was a real ego booster for me.  :)  I worked for him and the previous computers we were the TRS-80 Model III and I had a color computer. 

Thanks for the tip about the Topre switches, I just checked youtube and found a great video that had a bunch of typing comparing the Topre on a  HHKB2 to Cherry switches on a Razer.   Will have to consider the Topre for a full size board. 

But horrors to me, I stumbled on the 40% thread and now I gotta build one of those just for a fun side project.   From what I understand, the Topre only comes with custom membranes, you can't get those as singles for custom builds?   Any chance you know of a key switch that is (or close to) as quiet as the Topre?


Topre isn't a membrane keyboard. Not really mechanical either. It's a capacitive rubber dome, but most people just classify it mechanical for conversation sake.

You can read more about the switch here:  https://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_switch

Unfortunately, you can't buy Topre switches. However, there's been talk of some sort of Topre knockoffs out of China. If that's true, you might find a source for them.

I'm not sure why Topre doesn't make their switches available like Cherry does. From what I understand, keyboards are a very small segment of their business. Most of their business is OEMs producing industrial machinery, aircraft manufactures, military applications, etc.

Offline ander

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 05:01:02 »
psdp: I must agree with macsmasher. You obviously have a long, fond history with RD boards, so it seems like a Topre would be your ideal transition. As you know, they're not cheap, but they combine the best of both styles: the satisfying plock of a dome; and the speed, consistency and durability of a mechanical. (Remember to wash your hands before you sit down to type, to keep your investment looking nice.)

Meanwhile, considering how much you like Dells, you really should try a Dell QuietKey RT7D5JTW (p/n 0463CD), made in Thailand. They're several notches above Dell's later China-made efforts, IMHO; I've seen them referred to around here as "the poor man's Topre". They come in jet black and classic beige, and new ones still appear regularly. Why, here are a couple now (prices include shipping):

Black ($25)

Beige ($26.50)

Cheers, A.
« Last Edit: Wed, 03 February 2016, 05:08:32 by ander »
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Offline psdp

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 09:39:38 »
Thanks a bunch for all the info, really appreciate it.   

Dell KB216p Chiclet -- Nuthin but mush and I love it.

Offline ander

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 04:49:21 »
Thanks a bunch for all the info, really appreciate it.

Don't mention it... Most of us would rather talk about keyboards than eat.  :?)
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 06:40:12 »
HEhehehe... must be an acquired taste for us sophisticated folks.   :)   I might be using a different one than the one you are talking about, what is the model you are talking about at your office?

I'll have to look it up tomorrow. Will post a pic as well.

These keyboards are what I meant.. they are a crime to humanity:

Dell KB 212-PL


(Picture courtesy of tweakers.net)
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Offline psdp

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 11:36:07 »
Yes, I agree with a lot of what you said for the kb212-b, they feel super cheap and the keys are loose & wobbly, but I feel it is a better board than the sk-8115.    What I think is better than both of them is the KB216p.
Dell KB216p Chiclet -- Nuthin but mush and I love it.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:40:47 »
Yes, I agree with a lot of what you said for the kb212-b, they feel super cheap and the keys are loose & wobbly, but I feel it is a better board than the sk-8115.    What I think is better than both of them is the KB216p.

What do you like about the kb216p? Is it scissors or rubberdome still?
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Offline psdp

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:30:24 »
I haven't pulled the keys off but think it is just a simple rubber dome.

The KB216p is SO QUIET.   I can type all night and won't wake anyone up.  Plus they are dirt cheap that if it ever broke, can get another new one for less than $20 including shipping. 

On way home I stopped at an electronics store to tap on a few mechanicals.  Tried an Apex M800 which has a hybrid mechanical switch,  has a picture on the cover of the box, the switch housing looks like a cherry but has a spring and rubber dome inside.  Pressing on the keys they were just as quiet as KB216p easier to press and don't have to bottom out like have to on a membrane.  At $200 for the Apex, really gotta think about it before purchasing.   
Dell KB216p Chiclet -- Nuthin but mush and I love it.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 06 February 2016, 06:44:42 »
I haven't pulled the keys off but think it is just a simple rubber dome.

The KB216p is SO QUIET.   I can type all night and won't wake anyone up.  Plus they are dirt cheap that if it ever broke, can get another new one for less than $20 including shipping. 

On way home I stopped at an electronics store to tap on a few mechanicals.  Tried an Apex M800 which has a hybrid mechanical switch,  has a picture on the cover of the box, the switch housing looks like a cherry but has a spring and rubber dome inside.  Pressing on the keys they were just as quiet as KB216p easier to press and don't have to bottom out like have to on a membrane.  At $200 for the Apex, really gotta think about it before purchasing.

Well, I believe that my topre's are really quiet, but I understand what you are saying. I used to use Apple KB's and those are insanely quiet as well. Difficult to beat soundwise. But the mushy feel of Dell's.. I still hate it every second of it I have to use them.

I think that the cheapness factor is the only thing driving people towards them: doesn't matter if it fails after two months. Just go out and buy a new one.
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Offline Altis

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:36:05 »
Every Dell keyboard I've used has been terrible... except one. I deal with many KB212-B boards at work and recently came across one that is much better than the others.

It's absolutely silent -- by far the quietest board I've ever used, and super smooth. It feels pretty good to type on though I don't really care for the flatness of the board.

Now, having said that, I've done some typing on it and I could swear it's getting louder very quickly. Maybe it was just the newness of it that made it feel so much better, but none of the other new ones felt or sounded as refined as this.
WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad -- Logitech K740 -- QSENN DT-35 -- Zenith Z-150 (Green Alps)

Offline psdp

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:52:51 »
Besides sound and mush feel, got another question for you.  When you type on your topre and other mechanical keyboards, do you bottom out on the key strokes or do you just tap enough to get them to activate?  Was reading that is one of the advantages of going with a mechanical is to train your fingers not to bottom out and have the dreaded bounce at the bottom.

But also read the travel area on mechanicals is only 4mm.  The keys on my KB216 is only 2 pennies high and a penny is supposed to be 1.5mm thick so guessing I have a 3mm travel on my keys.  As I press the keys, they have a resistance to them and then a sudden collapse of the membrane dome.  It seems like when I type, my fingers are feeling for that collapse and just as the collapse happens, I am starting to let up the pressure on the stroke so when it hits the bottom, I am already loosening up the pressure so it doesn't seem like a hard bounce.  Well, except for the backspace key and enter keys, I those deserve a thunking for their sinful ways.  :)

So with a travel area of only 4mm, can you really only press them part way?
How about accidental activation, do they accidentally activate when you lay your fingers on the keys?

Altis - whats the number off the back of if?   Seems like there are 8 or 10 different version of that model keyboard.
Dell KB216p Chiclet -- Nuthin but mush and I love it.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 06 February 2016, 18:46:13 »
Besides sound and mush feel, got another question for you.  When you type on your topre and other mechanical keyboards, do you bottom out on the key strokes or do you just tap enough to get them to activate?  Was reading that is one of the advantages of going with a mechanical is to train your fingers not to bottom out and have the dreaded bounce at the bottom.

But also read the travel area on mechanicals is only 4mm.  The keys on my KB216 is only 2 pennies high and a penny is supposed to be 1.5mm thick so guessing I have a 3mm travel on my keys.  As I press the keys, they have a resistance to them and then a sudden collapse of the membrane dome.  It seems like when I type, my fingers are feeling for that collapse and just as the collapse happens, I am starting to let up the pressure on the stroke so when it hits the bottom, I am already loosening up the pressure so it doesn't seem like a hard bounce.  Well, except for the backspace key and enter keys, I those deserve a thunking for their sinful ways.  :)

So with a travel area of only 4mm, can you really only press them part way?
How about accidental activation, do they accidentally activate when you lay your fingers on the keys?

Altis - whats the number off the back of if?   Seems like there are 8 or 10 different version of that model keyboard.

Specifically related to Topre, you will bottom out as well. How Topre's work is, when beyond the actuation force, the force required to push deeper is extremely light. So it is usually agreed that in practice you will keep bottoming out on Topre's. But, because Topre is so tactile, you can very easily feel the "bump", which is the point after which the key actually registers. And you can train yourself to stop exerting more force at that point. The advantage is that you will reduce strain and type faster, because your muscle memory will learn to lift your finger when it feels the bump. With regular mushy rubber domes, this tactility is not so defined and you will keep smashing the keys like they are linear (like with mx reds and blacks).

Now, with heavier switches like mx green (clicky) and mx clears (tactily, not-clicky) you can indeed train your fingers to prevent bottoming out. Because the weight to push further beyond the clicky or tactile actuation point INCREASES drastically, you have to exert considerable more force to push through the bottom. So this helps you to lift your finger once your muscle memory knows when the "click" or the "increase in force" occurs, preventing you to bottom out.

For the lighter switches, it will be more difficult to not bottom out (mx browns for example).

I cannot speek for ALPS and other switches as I have no personal experience with them.
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Offline Altis

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 06 February 2016, 19:50:23 »
Besides sound and mush feel, got another question for you.  When you type on your topre and other mechanical keyboards, do you bottom out on the key strokes or do you just tap enough to get them to activate?  Was reading that is one of the advantages of going with a mechanical is to train your fingers not to bottom out and have the dreaded bounce at the bottom.

But also read the travel area on mechanicals is only 4mm.  The keys on my KB216 is only 2 pennies high and a penny is supposed to be 1.5mm thick so guessing I have a 3mm travel on my keys.  As I press the keys, they have a resistance to them and then a sudden collapse of the membrane dome.  It seems like when I type, my fingers are feeling for that collapse and just as the collapse happens, I am starting to let up the pressure on the stroke so when it hits the bottom, I am already loosening up the pressure so it doesn't seem like a hard bounce.  Well, except for the backspace key and enter keys, I those deserve a thunking for their sinful ways.  :)

So with a travel area of only 4mm, can you really only press them part way?
How about accidental activation, do they accidentally activate when you lay your fingers on the keys?

Altis - whats the number off the back of if?   Seems like there are 8 or 10 different version of that model keyboard.

I can second what illucionist is saying.

The only realistic way to type normally and not bottom out is to use a switch that has a steep force curve in the spring.

I'd say the best for this is Cherry MX Clear. They aren't all that heavy up to and through the tactile bump, but beyond that it gets quite heavy suddenly. It's pretty easy to avoid bottoming out on those.

Most switches are either too light overall or much lighter after the tactile point to be able to avoid bottoming out while typing normally.
WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad -- Logitech K740 -- QSENN DT-35 -- Zenith Z-150 (Green Alps)

Offline psdp

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Re: Couple Dell Keyboard Reviews
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 06 February 2016, 23:41:52 »
That is really neat info about the green and clears.  Thanks a bunch for sharing that!
Dell KB216p Chiclet -- Nuthin but mush and I love it.