I'm a little confused, what's the plan here? Do you want to try and get these keys produced in a particular colourway or alongside future sets?
As for improving ISO Compatibility, I 100% support this. I'm kind of lucky as a UK ISO user but even that can be a struggle at times (looking at your Carbon!)
... Thus I propose that you should run the GB yourself so that you can force the issue.
Gotcha, yes that makes sense! I suppose from a UK perspective, my absolutely minimum is literally just a R4 |\ (along with the ISO return, but that's usually a given). As long as I have that, I'm not too fussed about the location of @# etc.
30 keys I picked now.30 1u keys. How much would they cost at GMK?
MOQ 150 sets, ca. 16,50€ (netto,EXW)
MOQ 250 sets, ca. 15€ (netto, EXW)
MOQ 500 sets, ca. 13,50€ (netto, EXW)
MOQ 1,000 sets, ca. 11,50€ (netto, EXW)
Well these quotes are for ADDING these keys to a large base kit with more than 100+ keys in it alreadyEither way a good deal to me.
Ordering these keys in an individual kit would be more, maybe closer to 25$
Here's my current status.
- Green keys are the ISO-International essentials
- Yellow keys are candidates for removal
- Dark blue indicates perfect matches
- Light blue indicates very close matches
- Light Red indicates some kind of match
- Red indicates ... hm :(Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/l6jHZ46.png)
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/6f7830fa68c43c022e3d691bddb1a9a2 (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/6f7830fa68c43c022e3d691bddb1a9a2)
My concept:
- First key of row 1 just isn't worth it
- Tertiary legends are no a priority
- Secondary/Tertiary legends swap counts as a close match to me
- Row profiles matter, this isn't DSA
EDIT - UPDATE:
Got a response from GMK regarding the markup when adding the originally planned 35 keys to a common GMK base kit (100+ keycaps) and the estimate is 16,50€ at MOQ 150! That should be LESS THAN 20$ even with tax&customs¤cy conversion!
I agree those keys are hard to give up.Here's my current status.
- Green keys are the ISO-International essentials
- Yellow keys are candidates for removal
- Dark blue indicates perfect matches
- Light blue indicates very close matches
- Light Red indicates some kind of match
- Red indicates ... hm :(Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/l6jHZ46.png)
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/6f7830fa68c43c022e3d691bddb1a9a2 (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/6f7830fa68c43c022e3d691bddb1a9a2)
My concept:
- First key of row 1 just isn't worth it
- Tertiary legends are no a priority
- Secondary/Tertiary legends swap counts as a close match to me
- Row profiles matter, this isn't DSA
EDIT - UPDATE:
Got a response from GMK regarding the markup when adding the originally planned 35 keys to a common GMK base kit (100+ keycaps) and the estimate is 16,50€ at MOQ 150! That should be LESS THAN 20$ even with tax&customs¤cy conversion!
Thanks for your very important contribution.
I'm not sure what de se no dk users think, if they could sacrifice some keys that are very easy to remember, or if the are considered very important, I'm talking about the yellow ones:
Q@
M -mu
About the E€, on second thought, I'd like to have it in the ISO kit...
Talking about my ideal italian layout, I would be happy to sacrifice this key
\| (currently red)
But I'm not sure that I, or other italian users, could justify a kit missing all the pink-red keys, which are used very often:
'?
ì^
èé
+]
ò
a
ù
[SNIP]
1. While your points on the first R1 keycaps makes perfect sense to me, the aim of adding R1 ^ °, R1 ` ¬ ¦ (and keeping R2 Q @) is to have ^ | and @ available in all layouts as they are a must for some if not most computers coding idioms. That's of course leaving aside the colour scheme issue.
2. AZERTY does not make sense, as it requires ~25 very specific keys. There's certainly no market for that. The, probably few, French speaking users of aftermaket keycaps usually resort to US International, and some, perhaps, to custom layouts. May someday a kit will come out with the 6 additional French Canadian layout upper case letters+diacritics: this could be very helpful for custom layouts.
3. A similar approach to the one you took for Danish and Norwegian, and the one hinted at above for French, could apply to Spanish and Portuguese as well, i.e. adding R3 Ç for both and R3 Ñ for Spanish. Italian is harder to tackle with: may be adding the four R2 and R3 keycaps that have lower case vowels+diacritics would be a possible answer. It's a matter for native speakers of these languages to settle.
On these last points, the approach differs from yours as its aim is not to provide a better match to the standard national layout, but to give users the ability to build their own custom layout with all standard alphas displayed on keycaps, even though whether that makes sense to most potential users or is pointless remains questionable.
Thanks for your very important contribution.
I'm not sure what de se no dk users think, if they could sacrifice some keys that are very easy to remember, or if the are considered very important, I'm talking about the yellow ones:
Q@
M -mu
About the E€, on second thought, I'd like to have it in the ISO kit...
Talking about my ideal italian layout, I would be happy to sacrifice this key
\| (currently red)
But I'm not sure that I, or other italian users, could justify a kit missing all the pink-red keys, which are used very often:
'?
ì^
èé
+]
ò
a
ù
Another thing: the keys with three symbols... are they doubleshot or pad printed? If they're pad printed, maybe it could be taken into consideration to simplify some keys, removing some symbols, also because they conflict with other languages:
- removing the { [ ] } from 7 8 9 0
- removing the \ from the ?+
And about the estimate received by gmk, that is a very good news. If I only think how much did I have to discuss in each group buy, to have barred FJ5 added to the base set... An exorbitant expense of €1.5, for a thing that 50% of geekhackers love.
we find 20 italian geekhackersEasy to say.
As an italian user, I would be happy to pay something more to have my layout added. Let's say that there is a total of 20 italian users interested in this...Intriguing. I would support this.
What's the MOQ of an addon to the base set? 150 pieces?
150 keys * 6 italian keys * 0.5 eur/key = 450 eur
450 eur/ 20 italian users= 22.5 eur
and then you must obviously send me all the 45 keys that I've paid!! :-)
The idea was never to run this as a standalone GB, prices would be quite different if we asked for a 30 keys set.How different? It would be worth running an ISO-int GB for past GBs such ask Skidata+ or Skeletor (with the permission of their respective creators).
But I'm not sure that I, or other italian users, could justify a kit missing all the pink-red keys, which are used very often:I could happily give up the ù for I use the ANSI enter and I remove the ù entirely, but that's just me. I could live without the pink keys since I can touch type but having them on the board would make it prettier.
'? ì^ èé +] ò à ù
Another thing: the keys with three symbols... are they doubleshot or pad printed?I guess as long as they are on the top side, they are doubleshot.
great idea.
having dealt with GMK internationally, you need to be aware of this:
If you are buying from GMK in the EU and do not want to be subjected to VAT, then you need to have a registered business there.
Good luck with this!
great idea.
having dealt with GMK internationally, you need to be aware of this:
If you are buying from GMK in the EU and do not want to be subjected to VAT, then you need to have a registered business there.
Good luck with this!
Not sure what you mean with business,
It's enough to have a VAT registration number, which is something that most professionals have (from engineers, to freelance workers, to lawyers).
If you are in EU, then you have to pay either the sellers VAT rate or yours.
I'd rather pay the german 19% instead of our 27%.
great idea.
having dealt with GMK internationally, you need to be aware of this:
If you are buying from GMK in the EU and do not want to be subjected to VAT, then you need to have a registered business there.
Good luck with this!
Not sure what you mean with business,
It's enough to have a VAT registration number, which is something that most professionals have (from engineers, to freelance workers, to lawyers).
Unless you're self-employed or are a contractor with your own LLC, you WILL NOT have this (source: am professional engineer for an European company)
great idea.
having dealt with GMK internationally, you need to be aware of this:
If you are buying from GMK in the EU and do not want to be subjected to VAT, then you need to have a registered business there.
Good luck with this!
Not sure what you mean with business,
It's enough to have a VAT registration number, which is something that most professionals have (from engineers, to freelance workers, to lawyers).
Unless you're self-employed or are a contractor with your own LLC, you WILL NOT have this (source: am professional engineer for an European company)
I'm both.
i have a plan for GMK with GE1 yellow and RO1 red , if you could give me the exact keys on ISO-International essentials , i will add them to my lay-out.
i have no MOQ about this GMK GB,
It seems that the OP has abandon this idea, or at least he left it unattended, for quite some time already. What's the point of reopening the thread?
Wasn't the idea to define a kit for ISO languages to be included in ANSI/UK sets? GB runners choose wheter to offer the kit or not in their GBs, it's really not Wodan's decision.
Wasn't the idea to define a kit for ISO languages to be included in ANSI/UK sets? GB runners choose wheter to offer the kit or not in their GBs, it's really not Wodan's decision.
Thanks for the explanation, I have not read that post carefully.
Wasn't the idea to define a kit for ISO languages to be included in ANSI/UK sets? GB runners choose wheter to offer the kit or not in their GBs, it's really not Wodan's decision.
Thanks for the explanation, I have not read that post carefully.
Sry for the lack of explanation, i assumed the post was read ;)