Super-rare IBM Model H!!

[ander]

Wow—I don't think any of us have seen one of these! It's a super-rare IBM Model H:








I've added the closeup of the label so you can see the amazing detail yourselves.

Er, I think that's an H, anyway... Or is it a Model II ?  :?D

[rm-rf]

hahaha!

I am pretty sure that's just an "M" but with the curve of that thing above it taking up the same spot it does almost look like an "H"

[ander]

Or it may be a Model ii and you just can't see the dots.

This could also be one of IBM's rumored secret experimental models, where they intentionally hid part of the model name under the copyright. Those guys could be sneaky!

[Irontree]

I think it just a standard Model M.
We need someone with super skills to look at the picture up close.

[rowdy]

hahaha!

I am pretty sure that's just an "M" but with the curve of that thing above it taking up the same spot it does almost look like an "H"

After a brief squint at the picture (zoomed in slightly), I'd go with this.

There does seem to be a gap between the alleged horizontal bar and the left/right vertical strokes.

[ander]

[OP chortling—not a lot, just somewhat]

[rm-rf]

section A, adjusted the levels on the text till you could see the difference
section B, shows a similar effect.
section C, more outline on the top of the M, under the C, of corp.
section D, lasers didn't help find anything.

could go further but I didn't want to say enhance anymore.

[jaffers]

Enhancing that image a bit for colour seperation you can clearly see that there is no direct line between the two vertical lines... Unfortunately another model M man 

[jaffers]

Show Image

section A, adjusted the levels on the text till you could see the difference
section B, shows a similar effect.
section C, more outline on the top of the M, under the C, of corp.
section D, lasers didn't help find anything.

could go further but I didn't want to say enhance anymore.

Looks like we both had the same idea at the same time

[ander]

This was really bugging me, so I contacted an associate professor I know at the University of British Columbia's Physics/Astronomy Dept. By observing an extreme closeup of the image with the latest quantum-optical spectroscopic technology, he was able to infer this superpositioned pattern of azimuthal magnetism:





It does indeed look like an H!!

My friend adds that this impression has a 99.999% probability of having occurred in this and approx. j³²/v^Φ parallel universes (where j is the plate number of the earliest known IBM beamspring and v is the square footage of the house in Mexico that Richard Feynman bought with his Nobel Prize money). Of course to avoid influencing the experiment, my friend had to be careful to maintain entirely neutral thoughts regarding mechanical keyboards—which, as you know, is easier said than done, because they're so cool.

But I'm not stopping there. I've contacted a friend in Armonk, NY who was a longtime computer scientist at IBM. (Among his many other innovations, it was his idea to cut the upper-left corner off of each IBM punched card—before that, anyone who used the cards had to check the corners until they found the tiny text that said THIS CORNER IS IRRELEVANT.) He has access to IBM's secret archives there, and told me some time ago he'd be glad to track down specific keyboard-related esoterica as long as he could remain anonymous. He'll clear this up! I'll let you know as soon as he finds something.

I'm sure you'll agree—we seldom see this kind of intrigue here at GH!  :?O

[Bucake]

[ander]

I can't blame some of you for being skeptical... GH has certainly seen its share of hoaxes.

Only last year a GH member claimed he'd found a 1988 IBM Model Q, long rumored to have been created by a top-secret British weapons lab for elite secret agents posing as computer operators. To the casual observer, it looked like a standard Model M—but interior photos revealed a miniaturized flamethrower, grenade launcher, and a high-intensity laser capable of slicing through a Model F-122 like it was a Cherry G80-3800.

Because these weapons were concealed behind the drainage holes, the member wrote, "the grenades had to be very, very small—but they could still be deadly, especially when used against short evil assistants". He also explained the weapons were activated by specific four-key combinations; and that he'd avoided destroying his desk, and/or himself, by carefully reading the documentation first.

Doubts started to form, however, when it was pointed out:

• That no IBM keyboard made at that time could possibly support NKRO.

• How far-fetched it was that any real geek would bother with documentation, even when it had a skull and crossbones and a large DANGER—DEADLY DEVICE! warning.

Eventually the member admitted the hoax, and that the idea had occurred to him after seeing the fake Chinese keyboard used by the villain in Tomorrow Never Dies:




(Credit: "007 in Hong Kong" – http://bond.web.idv.hk/bond/007inhk.php)

[SamirD]

Where's the ebay link?

[njbair]

I can't blame some of you for being skeptical... GH has certainly seen its share of hoaxes.

Only last year a GH member claimed he'd found a 1988 IBM Model Q, long rumored to have been created by a top-secret British weapons lab for elite secret agents posing as computer operators. To the casual observer, it looked like a standard Model M—but interior photos revealed a miniaturized flamethrower, grenade launcher, and a high-intensity laser capable of slicing through a Model F-122 like it was a Cherry G80-3800.

Because these weapons were concealed behind the drainage holes, the member wrote, "the grenades had to be very, very small—but they could still be deadly, especially when used against short evil assistants". He also explained the weapons were activated by specific four-key combinations; and that he'd avoided destroying his desk, and/or himself, by carefully reading the documentation first.

Doubts started to form, however, when it was pointed out:

• That no IBM keyboard made at that time could possibly support NKRO.

• How far-fetched it was that any real geek would bother with documentation, even when it had a skull and crossbones and a large DANGER—DEADLY DEVICE! warning.

Eventually the member admitted the hoax, and that the idea had occurred to him after seeing the fake Chinese keyboard used by the villain in Tomorrow Never Dies:


(Attachment Link)

(Credit: "007 in Hong Kong" – http://bond.web.idv.hk/bond/007inhk.php)

Bravo!

[1391406]

Where's the ebay link?

Here

[unoab]

I think I would seriously question what I saw on these labels based on this auction I just saw:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231743496211
it says model M on a label like those, but seems to obviously be a mode F, based on the black back plate and part number... so maybe labels should be taken with a grain of salt...

[SamirD]

I think the ebay world is getting a big scammy.  They know what these things are worth in good condition so everyone is vying for having a perfect board when we all know they're not that prevalent.  Buyer beware for sure.

[Snowdog993]

I can't blame some of you for being skeptical... GH has certainly seen its share of hoaxes.

Only last year a GH member claimed he'd found a 1988 IBM Model Q, long rumored to have been created by a top-secret British weapons lab for elite secret agents posing as computer operators. To the casual observer, it looked like a standard Model M—but interior photos revealed a miniaturized flamethrower, grenade launcher, and a high-intensity laser capable of slicing through a Model F-122 like it was a Cherry G80-3800.

Because these weapons were concealed behind the drainage holes, the member wrote, "the grenades had to be very, very small—but they could still be deadly, especially when used against short evil assistants". He also explained the weapons were activated by specific four-key combinations; and that he'd avoided destroying his desk, and/or himself, by carefully reading the documentation first.

Doubts started to form, however, when it was pointed out:

• That no IBM keyboard made at that time could possibly support NKRO.

• How far-fetched it was that any real geek would bother with documentation, even when it had a skull and crossbones and a large DANGER—DEADLY DEVICE! warning.

Eventually the member admitted the hoax, and that the idea had occurred to him after seeing the fake Chinese keyboard used by the villain in Tomorrow Never Dies:


(Attachment Link)

(Credit: "007 in Hong Kong" – http://bond.web.idv.hk/bond/007inhk.php)

There is always the heavily sought-after IBM Model T keyboard, which you could have in any color, as long as it was black.  Unfortunately, they stopped making them when people kept trying to find the shift lever that was apparently forgotten about in the original design.
The mandolin crystal inside was the most beneficial part, being as many members of GH have claimed to have at least one.
The problem is and still is, that even after completely tearing them apart and putting them back together, the crystal just vanishes in a purple puff of smoke.
Some claimed to have inhaled the substance and discovered nirvana.  Others just claim it caused a major headache.  Be that as it may, I have not encountered one yet, and I believe that the last ones were taken off our planet to save mankind.
Keep your eyes peeled folks!  There might be one out there.

[SamirD]

Mandolin crystal...hahaha...I had to read all about that the first time I heard about it.  What hype.

[ander]

...The mandolin crystal inside was the most beneficial part, being as many members of GH have claimed to have at least one. The problem is and still is, that even after completely tearing them apart and putting them back together, the crystal just vanishes in a purple puff of smoke...

LOL, dude!

[demik]

lol ebay so crazy

[ander]

 =================================================================

Important follow-up to this post:

I was wrong—only Board #1 below was a mislabeled Model F (which has now been sold). Board #2 is indeed a Model M-122; see Snowdog's post after this one.

 =================================================================

I think I would seriously question what I saw on these labels based on this auction I just saw:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231743496211
it says model M on a label like those, but seems to obviously be a mode F, based on the black back plate and part number...

Man, you're absolutely right (and I'm being completely serious now)—this eBay seller is selling two Model F's that are mislabeled as Model M's.

The links again:

Board #1

Board #2

Consider:

• They're both 6110347s, a Model F part number

• The photo on the 2nd board's page clearly shows the back is black, not beige.

• They have the Model F's straight metal 270-degree connectors, not angled connectors like Model M-122s.

The seller refers to them as "mint", and they do look like they're in excellent shape. With BIN prices of $72 and $75 shipped, that's quite a good deal... The odd labels may even make them more valuable.

These would normally have been made in '84 or '85. But maybe they really were made in '89. IBM may have put together a couple of left-over F's at a customer's request, and used their Model M label setup to print labels for them. The operator would've been prompted to type in the part number (as there were so many variants), but the date and model name would've been populated by default. It would've been easy to forget to change that single letter in the model name... That's my theory.

And isn't it funny—what lead to my posting about this was the sellers's confusion over the model name.  :?)

[Snowdog993]

I think I would seriously question what I saw on these labels based on this auction I just saw:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231743496211
it says model M on a label like those, but seems to obviously be a mode F, based on the black back plate and part number...

Man, you're absolutely right (and I'm being completely serious now)—this eBay seller is selling two Model F's that are mislabeled as Model M's. Here are the links again:

Board #1

Board #2

• 6110347 is a Model F p/n (see DT's Model F page)

• On the 2nd board's page, the photo clearly shows the back is dark metal, not beige plastic.

• The boards have the straight, metal-encased 270-degree connectors, not the angled connectors Model M-122s have.

They look like they're in excellent shape, with no visible exterior defects. (The seller refers to them as "mint".) With BIN prices of only around $70 shipped, that's a very good deal—and the mislabeling may make them even more valuable as collectors' oddities. (They obviously would've been made in '84 or '85, not '89.)

Well, whaddaya know—this was worth pointing out after all.  :?)

I have to correct you Ander, the 1389260 is a Model M.  Go to the listing again and look at all the pictures again, please.  It's a nice terminal M in good condition, but not a Model F.

[ander]

You're right, Snow... I thought they were both '347s. I also see someone has already snapped up the 347.

Also, you posted your reply while I was modifying my post, which is why your quoted version is different... I guess this'll teach us to try to combine lunacy with seriousness.  :?)

[SamirD]

I want to present an alternate theory, so humor me.

What if the seller is actually putting these together and presenting them as brand new?  There's just something tingling in my fake-o-meter.

[ander]

What if the seller is actually putting these together and presenting them as brand new?

Putting them together from what? Do you think they printed the mismatched label too?

Also, they don't say "brand new" or "new", but "mint", which means "like new" (no signs of use). It's either true or it isn't.

[SamirD]

What if the seller is actually putting these together and presenting them as brand new?

Putting them together from what? Do you think they printed the mismatched label too?

Also, they don't say "brand new" or "new", but "mint", which means "like new" (no signs of use). It's either true or it isn't.

Not like that, but like putting a M body on a bottom plate they found with an H.  There's nothing to tell us that the guts are original to that particular model.

Like an ebay post I've seen for a mint condition bolt modded 88 Model M.  It was modified for 1-piece caps.  How is that mint condition since the 88 came with 2 piece caps?

[Snowdog993]

What if the seller is actually putting these together and presenting them as brand new?

Putting them together from what? Do you think they printed the mismatched label too?

Also, they don't say "brand new" or "new", but "mint", which means "like new" (no signs of use). It's either true or it isn't.

Not like that, but like putting a M body on a bottom plate they found with an H.  There's nothing to tell us that the guts are original to that particular model.

Like an ebay post I've seen for a mint condition bolt modded 88 Model M.  It was modified for 1-piece caps.  How is that mint condition since the 88 came with 2 piece caps?

It really depends on the Model M's model number.  There are several models that did have 1-piece caps on them.  "Modified for" 1-piece caps?  You can put 2-piece caps or 1-piece caps on Model M keyboards.  Some people actually prefer the 1-piece caps.  I honestly can't tell the difference unless I actually take them off. 

[ander]

Like an ebay post I've seen for a mint condition bolt modded 88 Model M.  It was modified for 1-piece caps.  How is that mint condition since the 88 came with 2 piece caps?

Before we proceed, the annoying technical writer in me wants to clarify some terms:

"1-piece caps". Technically, all key caps are one-piece. The "cap" is the upper part of a two-piece button, consisting of a cap mounted on a stem. (I'm not making this up; it's what IBM called them, and what Unicomp still does.)

Okay—what I think you're saying is:

• This Model M was in "mint condition", in that it showed no signs of use; it was "like new".

• For some inexplicable reason, the seller had replaced this M's original two-piece buttons with one-piece buttons.

So indeed, the question is: Could it be considered a mint-condition 1988 Model M, since original 1988 Model M's don't have two-piece buttons?

So, you have a mint-condition 2nd-generation M that looks and types fabulously. And unless you make a point of showing someone the buttons are one-piece, they'll never know, will they? And as long as you intended to keep and enjoy this M, there's no reason such a thing should matter. In normal use, there's no need for us to disassemble keyboards.

But does it bother you anyway, just because you know the buttons are one-piece? That is the question.

Some people would describe that kind of thinking as neurotic. ("A functional disorder in which feelings of anxiety, obsessional thoughts, compulsive acts, and physical complaints without objective evidence of disease, in various degrees and patterns, dominate the personality.")  Neurotic individuals find it impossible to enjoy themselves because they're always thinking about how stuff isn't perfect.

The good news is, that describes 99% of vintage KB enthusiasts. So if those are the kinds of thoughts that are going through your head, I'd say you're doing everything correctly.  :?)

It really depends on the Model M's model number.  There are several models that did have 1-piece caps on them.  "Modified for" 1-piece caps?  You can put 2-piece caps or 1-piece caps on Model M keyboards.  Some people actually prefer the 1-piece caps.  I honestly can't tell the difference unless I actually take them off. 

Ah, but you could take them off if you wanted to. I think that's the point Samir is making. And it's a good one. Because, as KB people, we're into detail—even detail you wouldn't normally see. This is the peculiar obsession we call...

[SamirD]

What if the seller is actually putting these together and presenting them as brand new?

Putting them together from what? Do you think they printed the mismatched label too?

Also, they don't say "brand new" or "new", but "mint", which means "like new" (no signs of use). It's either true or it isn't.

Not like that, but like putting a M body on a bottom plate they found with an H.  There's nothing to tell us that the guts are original to that particular model.

Like an ebay post I've seen for a mint condition bolt modded 88 Model M.  It was modified for 1-piece caps.  How is that mint condition since the 88 came with 2 piece caps?

It really depends on the Model M's model number.  There are several models that did have 1-piece caps on them.  "Modified for" 1-piece caps?  You can put 2-piece caps or 1-piece caps on Model M keyboards.  Some people actually prefer the 1-piece caps.  I honestly can't tell the difference unless I actually take them off.

I have one unicomp m122 that has the 1-piece ca...err...cap and stem unit vs the two piece unit.  I can tell a slight difference between that and the IBM M I'm using now, but I think that's more to do with the normal variation between buckling spring boards than the keycaps.  Personally, I've always liked the two piece units as it is 100x easier to clean the caps.

[SamirD]

Like an ebay post I've seen for a mint condition bolt modded 88 Model M.  It was modified for 1-piece caps.  How is that mint condition since the 88 came with 2 piece caps?

Before we proceed, the annoying technical writer in me wants to clarify some terms:

"1-piece caps". Technically, all key caps are one-piece. The "cap" is the upper part of a two-piece button, consisting of a cap mounted on a stem. (I'm not making this up; it's what IBM called them, and what Unicomp still does.)

Okay—what I think you're saying is:

• This Model M was in "mint condition", in that it showed no signs of use; it was "like new".

• For some inexplicable reason, the seller had replaced this M's original two-piece buttons with one-piece buttons.

So indeed, the question is: Could it be considered a mint-condition 1988 Model M, since original 1988 Model M's don't have two-piece buttons?

So, you have a mint-condition 2nd-generation M that looks and types fabulously. And unless you make a point of showing someone the buttons are one-piece, they'll never know, will they? And as long as you intended to keep and enjoy this M, there's no reason such a thing should matter. In normal use, there's no need for us to disassemble keyboards.

But does it bother you anyway, just because you know the buttons are one-piece? That is the question.

Some people would describe that kind of thinking as neurotic. ("A functional disorder in which feelings of anxiety, obsessional thoughts, compulsive acts, and physical complaints without objective evidence of disease, in various degrees and patterns, dominate the personality.")  Neurotic individuals find it impossible to enjoy themselves because they're always thinking about how stuff isn't perfect.

The good news is, that describes 99% of vintage KB enthusiasts. So if those are the kinds of thoughts that are going through your head, I'd say you're doing everything correctly.  :?)

It really depends on the Model M's model number.  There are several models that did have 1-piece caps on them.  "Modified for" 1-piece caps?  You can put 2-piece caps or 1-piece caps on Model M keyboards.  Some people actually prefer the 1-piece caps.  I honestly can't tell the difference unless I actually take them off. 

Ah, but you could take them off if you wanted to. I think that's the point Samir is making. And it's a good one. Because, as KB people, we're into detail—even detail you wouldn't normally see. This is the peculiar obsession we call...

Show Image

Duly noted on the cap and stem!  Thank you for the clarification.  Correct technical terms are important if you're getting into technical details.  :thumb:  (It always peeves me when in the car enthusiast world people get terms wrong.  For example, 'NOS' isn't nitrous oxide injection, it's a company that makes nitrous oxide injection products.  And yet the two get used interchangeably by someone who really doesn't know what they're talking about.)

You get my point completely ander.  :thumb:  The bone stock, original 1988 Model M didn't come with bolt mods or 1 piece cap and stem units.  Bolt mods I'm okay with since the only way around it is to send a board to Unicomp for refurbing (which is what I'll probably do if I ever have to), but changing the cap and stem is a no-no in my book.  It came with 2 piece units and if someone wants to call something 'mint', ie implying original,  they cap and stem units should be 2 piece units.

The funny thing is this thing that others can call 'too picky' 'perfectionist' etc is actually where progress comes from.  As the saying goes, "God is in the details."  And if that's the case, what we do is heavenly. ;)

[Snowdog993]

Hmm.

More

Sanity check.

[Snowdog993]

More stuff.

More

Sanity check.

[Snowdog993]

Maybe it's the difference between Unicomp and IBM legends....

More

Sanity check.  (But the Unicomp is 2-piece)

[Snowdog993]

Maybe another check with this...

More

Sanity check.  Unicomp APL and IBM 2595.  (Unicomp is STILL 2-piece)

Maybe it's the legends that SamirD is going on about.

[Snowdog993]

There is always the review that DV made on the Unicomp M122.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62060

I have the feeling that the feeling isn't the feeling.  On the other hand, it might just be the keyboard itself.

[SamirD]

Maybe another check with this...

Show Image

Show Image

Sanity check.  Unicomp APL and IBM 2595.  (Unicomp is STILL 2-piece)

Maybe it's the legends that SamirD is going on about.

What were you checking on these?  I mean, they're all fine examples, but have been 'tastefully modded' as the car enthusiast term would be.  Not sure what your point is?

The legends are another good point even though I wasn't even thinking about that.  True IBM legends are a bit different, especially on an 88.

[Snowdog993]

Maybe another check with this...

Show Image

Show Image

Sanity check.  Unicomp APL and IBM 2595.  (Unicomp is STILL 2-piece)

Maybe it's the legends that SamirD is going on about.

What were you checking on these?  I mean, they're all fine examples, but have been 'tastefully modded' as the car enthusiast term would be.  Not sure what your point is?

The legends are another good point even though I wasn't even thinking about that.  True IBM legends are a bit different, especially on an 88.

I just had to check my sanity when I read what you said.  It had nothing to do with you personally.  Carry on.

[SamirD]

There is always the review that DV made on the Unicomp M122.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62060

I have the feeling that the feeling isn't the feeling.  On the other hand, it might just be the keyboard itself.

Wow, he really ripped it apart.  Consider all of that though, my Unicomp m122 feels pretty good.  But it was also created for someone else as an oem, so maybe it was built a little better.  It is also ps2.

[Halvar]

In related news:

May I present the ultra-rare Cherry Model "HY 3000":

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Tastatur-Cherry-Modell-HY-3000-/252162259611

[Snowdog993]

I figured that jet.com took the remaining mandolin crystals.
They are using them in their new advertising campaigns.
You can see the actual effect very vividly.
Good work jet.com!
Mindblowing.

[ander]

Duly noted on the cap and stem!  Thank you for the clarification.  Correct technical terms are important if you're getting into technical details.  ...

Dude, I just want you to know, I think you're one of the coolest people on this forum. You're certainly one of my favourite people. That said, I don't think there's much of a chance that many of these guys will pay attention to the terminology details I shared up there. It's funny, but while many of the people here are totally into precision and accuracy when it comes to hardware, they couldn't care less about proper terms for stuff. So I mention these now and then for my own amusement, more than anything else.

Maybe another check with this... Sanity check.  Unicomp APL and IBM 2595.  (Unicomp is STILL 2-piece)... Maybe it's the legends that SamirD is going on about.

LOL, dude, I always enjoy how you post pix of your boards at every opportunity. Well, if I had such cool stuff, I probably would too.  :?)

In related news:
May I present the ultra-rare Cherry Model "HY 3000"...
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Tastatur-Cherry-Modell-HY-3000-/252162259611

Funny! Er, I mean das ist lustig!

I figured that jet.com took the remaining mandolin crystals.... They are using them in their new advertising campaigns... You can see the actual affect very vividly... Good work jet.com!

Yowie—mandolin crystals!! I'm cuckoo for mandolin crystals!!





 [bouncing around room, voiding health insurance]

[SamirD]

Duly noted on the cap and stem!  Thank you for the clarification.  Correct technical terms are important if you're getting into technical details.  ...

Dude, I just want you to know, I think you're one of the coolest people on this forum. You're certainly one of my favourite people. That said, I don't think there's much of a chance that many of these guys will pay attention to the terminology details I shared up there. It's funny, but while many of the people here are totally into precision and accuracy when it comes to hardware, they couldn't care less about proper terms for stuff. So I mention these now and then for my own amusement, more than anything else.

Why thank you!  You're one of my favorite people on here as well because of all the useful information you share considering you have a whole warehouse of stuff to play with and no need to ever share. 

[SamirD]

I just had to check my sanity when I read what you said.  It had nothing to do with you personally.  Carry on.

lol.  Gotcha.  Thank you for checking!  It was good to see you with such an extensive collection double-checking.   

In a related note, I discovered that one of my blue label Ms has 1-piece assemblies.  In another related note, I'm now attempting to pop off a keycap on every blue label M I have just to see if I have another 1-piece, lol.  I was happy to discover that the 'Options by IBM' M that I have is a 2-piece even though it is blue label. 

I can't wait to have enough time to clean and properly photograph all my Ms.

[Snowdog993]

I figured that jet.com took the remaining mandolin crystals.... They are using them in their new advertising campaigns... You can see the actual affect very vividly... Good work jet.com!

Yowie—mandolin crystals!! I'm cuckoo for mandolin crystals!!

[bouncing around room, voiding health insurance]

You can see the mind-bending side effects of them in this illustration:




Edit: Unless you're that blind guy sitting over there....

[SamirD]

The blind's mind can't hear the mandolin crystals and thinks everyone else is crazy, lol.

[ander]

I just wanted you all to know that this is one of those GH topics I still think about from time to time, especially in the middle of the night when it's dark and quiet and anything could happen.

[SamirD]

LOL!

And what does happen?