(GB)HYPERFUSE GMK (currently shipping)

[nubbinator]

So far the arguments I see fall into three categories:

• Usability/function - make the set useable to the greatest number of people.
• Aesthetics - make it so there are alternative aesthetically pleasing options.
• Taste/feel - make this set suit my taste preferences.

Call me biased, but taste seems to be the least important of this three.  Taste does not impact the useability of the set nor does it provide any other significant difference.  I prefer scoops, but use sets with nibs and bars.  It makes no difference.  I prefer scoops because I can feel them easier and they're more pleasant feeling too, but it's a minor thing with marginal impact. 

On the other hand, added layout support lets it be used with mite boards and more future layouts and also has a positive impact on resale value.  It's not important to me, but it's helpful to a decent number of people who otherwise couldn't use the set or use it the way they want. Aesthetics lets people vary their sets and lets people inject more of their own personality and aesthetics into the set. Both these have a larger impact on the set.

[abjr]

Is scooped key the same thing as the deep dish keys you find on the DSA set?

No. Think of scoops as shaped like a half-pipe in snowboarding/skateboarding.

[Yslen]

It is the cylindrical equivalent of the spherical deep dish caps

[BunnyLake]

ok lemme put a few things out there

this thread, from start to finish has been great, with people being very helpful and all around nice, its been a super positive experience and i do not want that derailed

EVERYONE has a different opinion, and nobody is more correct than anyone else when it comes tto what THEY want

some of you may know me, and some of you may not, but ill put this out there about me, im the sort of guy that will listen to ALL requests, but i will be making MY own decision

the way i look at group buys may be different to other people, but the way i see it is this, im putting my idea out to the world, and as much as i like to please people, i wont compromise my design

please be nice to each other, if you disagree with what someone else wants, that doesnt mean their point is any less valid than anyone elses

i have been reading every comment and every request, and a ton of thought is going in to finding a balance between keeping the most people happy, adding some aesthetic flair and increasing usability

please trust me when i say, im putting lots of thought and time in to making these decisions, and that i have a huge amount of experience across many gbs as to what gets requested, and what ends up being used

[Yslen]

In bunny we trust <3

[VesperSAINT]

ok lemme put a few things out there

this thread, from start to finish has been great, with people being very helpful and all around nice, its been a super positive experience and i do not want that derailed

EVERYONE has a different opinion, and nobody is more correct than anyone else when it comes tto what THEY want

some of you may know me, and some of you may not, but ill put this out there about me, im the sort of guy that will listen to ALL requests, but i will be making MY own decision

the way i look at group buys may be different to other people, but the way i see it is this, im putting my idea out to the world, and as much as i like to please people, i wont compromise my design

please be nice to each other, if you disagree with what someone else wants, that doesnt mean their point is any less valid than anyone elses

i have been reading every comment and every request, and a ton of thought is going in to finding a balance between keeping the most people happy, adding some aesthetic flair and increasing usability

please trust me when i say, im putting lots of thought and time in to making these decisions, and that i have a huge amount of experience across many gbs as to what gets requested, and what ends up being used

OOOOOO~~~ AMEN. Do your thang, baby. Do your magic~~~

[Polymer]

So far the arguments I see fall into three categories:

• Usability/function - make the set useable to the greatest number of people.
• Aesthetics - make it so there are alternative aesthetically pleasing options.
• Taste/feel - make this set suit my taste preferences.

Call me biased, but taste seems to be the least important of this three.  Taste does not impact the useability of the set nor does it provide any other significant difference.  I prefer scoops, but use sets with nibs and bars.  It makes no difference.  I prefer scoops because I can feel them easier and they're more pleasant feeling too, but it's a minor thing with marginal impact. 

On the other hand, added layout support lets it be used with mite boards and more future layouts and also has a positive impact on resale value.  It's not important to me, but it's helpful to a decent number of people who otherwise couldn't use the set or use it the way they want. Aesthetics lets people vary their sets and lets people inject more of their own personality and aesthetics into the set. Both these have a larger impact on the set.

It depends on each person wouldn't it?  If you could only pick two out of the three, are you sure you'd pick layout and looks over feel?  If so why do people want GMK over SP?  It is almost entirely because of feel.  I'm not saying feel is more important than the other two but before you dismiss it as the least important, you'd probably want to consider exactly what that means....Would you rather have SP with many different layouts or GMK with just the standard stuff plus ISO and Tsangan?  Would probably depend on each individual right?  Or would you rather have SP with a few extra colored keys or GMK that don't have the extra colored keys?  For a person that feels they're about the same might want the extra colored keys..

That's probably too much of a black and white comparison...it is obviously a lot more complicated than that...

But what shouldn't be happening is people insulting others because they don't like the suggestion that person made for the extras (nevermind that suggestions were solicited).

I'm not even making a big deal about it...I'm just responding to people's comments about it...Ultimately I don't care what the extras are, I'll be happy with whatever...and I've said that several times already...but if people want to challenge my opinion, go for it..at least I can explain WHY I'm coming to my suggestion...unlike most of the responses which are basically "NO we don't need that I like scoops".  There isn't even a thought that others might have a different opinion about something.

[VesperSAINT]

  ~ faith in bunny. have some.

More

lol dat image doe

[strict]

There are very few people around here I would put complete, unquestioning, blind faith into and Bunny is one of them. Everyone just needs to chill out and trust that he will take care of it and blow our collective minds from awesomeness in the process.

[VesperSAINT]

[Lastpilot]

Ultimately I don't care what the extras are, I'll be happy with whatever...and I've said that several times already...

People who are happy with whatever don't post pedantic paragraphs.

[BunnyLake]

Ultimately I don't care what the extras are, I'll be happy with whatever...and I've said that several times already...

People who are happy with whatever don't post pedantic paragraphs.

can we not, i dont want the thread turning in to people bickering back and fourth

people dont need too be defending themselves here, i left conversation open for people to put forward their ideas of what they would like to see in the set, just because someone puts forward an idea doesnt mean that idea will end up in the set, so there is no reason for people to try and justify why it shouldnt be included etc

most of that isnt aimed at you btw lastpilot

[Polymer]

Ultimately I don't care what the extras are, I'll be happy with whatever...and I've said that several times already...

People who are happy with whatever don't post pedantic paragraphs.

Completely untrue...I'd like to see certain things..but ultimately, these are extras...without any guarantees of anything...If I was going to be unhappy with a set because some unknown extra wasn't what I thought would be good, why the hell would I buy it in the first place?   That's right..I wouldn't....I also know the chances of my suggestion are basically 0%.  Wouldn't I now be UNHAPPY with the set if your comment was true?  But I'm most definitely NOT unhappy with the set...Completely excited about it..

I probably shouldn't even reply but really..come on..how does this whole thing degenerate from open suggestions to insults because of those suggestions...really really immature..

[trizkut]

Completely untrue...I'd like to see certain things..but ultimately, these are extras...without any guarantees of anything...If I was going to be unhappy with a set because some unknown extra wasn't what I thought would be good, why the hell would I buy it in the first place?   That's right..I wouldn't....I also know the chances of my suggestion are basically 0%.  Wouldn't I now be UNHAPPY with the set?

I probably shouldn't even reply but really..come on..how does this whole thing degenerate from open suggestions to insults because of those suggestions...really really immature..

I would say it stemmed from you suggesting that we should accommodate nibs by nixing the 1800 support.. 

I trust Bunny and think scoops should be fine;  they serve the same purpose as nibs, which ultimately is just to help differentiate keys to more easily locate the home row.

[BunnyLake]

Completely untrue...I'd like to see certain things..but ultimately, these are extras...without any guarantees of anything...If I was going to be unhappy with a set because some unknown extra wasn't what I thought would be good, why the hell would I buy it in the first place?   That's right..I wouldn't....I also know the chances of my suggestion are basically 0%.  Wouldn't I now be UNHAPPY with the set?

I probably shouldn't even reply but really..come on..how does this whole thing degenerate from open suggestions to insults because of those suggestions...really really immature..

I would say it stemmed from you suggesting that we should accommodate nibs by nixing the 1800 support.. 

I trust Bunny and think scoops should be fine;  they serve the same purpose as nibs, which ultimately is just to help differentiate keys to more easily locate the home row.

1800 support will be in no matter what at this point

after the planning phase for this happened, the tx1800 buy dropped, and because of the success of that and the current support for that format, as well as my hetero love for both inlikeflynn and elrick, i cant leave that out

[Sygaldry]

Ultimately I don't care what the extras are, I'll be happy with whatever...and I've said that several times already...

People who are happy with whatever don't post pedantic paragraphs.

Completely untrue...I'd like to see certain things..but ultimately, these are extras...without any guarantees of anything...If I was going to be unhappy with a set because some unknown extra wasn't what I thought would be good, why the hell would I buy it in the first place?   That's right..I wouldn't....I also know the chances of my suggestion are basically 0%.  Wouldn't I now be UNHAPPY with the set if your comment was true?  But I'm most definitely NOT unhappy with the set...Completely excited about it..

I probably shouldn't even reply but really..come on..how does this whole thing degenerate from open suggestions to insults because of those suggestions...really really immature..

Can we just stop all this back and forth bickering?

It's not productive at all and is just cluttering up the thread.

Also... can we just accept the fact that no one wants nibs? One person's desperate justifications and questionable statistics seemingly pulled out of thin air won't change this fact.

[CPTBadAss]

Also... can we just accept the fact that no one wants nibs? One person's desperate justifications and questionable statistics seemingly pulled out of thin air won't change this fact.

I want nibs. If those who want nibs don't speak up, how will we change the "fact". I don't like scoops and it's taken me ages to get used to scoops. But I think someone else mentioned that if we had to pick between extra caps/new colors or nibs, I'd rather see sets get more caps and colors.

[Polymer]

I would say it stemmed from you suggesting that we should accommodate nibs by nixing the 1800 support.. 

I didn't say that...again, another person that doesn't actually read the posts..

I actually specifically said I'm not saying to remove 1800 support...I'm just stating I think there would be more users that get use out of nibs than 1800 support.  That isn't the same thing as saying I want to get rid of 1800 support.  I'm just saying if you want a justification number wise, I believe (and I could be wrong) that based on what I see, a greater % would use nibs than 1800.

[Skuloth]

Someone mentioned it earlier and I'm also curious. Does GMK have support for dvorak and colemak? It would be interesting to see if there is interest for keys to support alternate layouts.

[Ouro]

I would like an accent enter key and a unique esc key as extras to be honest.

How good is the base set support for korean customs?

[BunnyLake]

I would like an accent enter key and a unique esc key as extras to be honest.

How good is the base set support for korean customs?

its fine for customs layout dependent of course

[BunnyLake]

Someone mentioned it earlier and I'm also curious. Does GMK have support for dvorak and colemak? It would be interesting to see if there is interest for keys to support alternate layouts.

im sure they could , however we wont have the budget nor demand to include that

[jdcarpe]

Let me ask this question, because I don't know the answer. Are the "nubs/nibs" on GMK's F and J keys exactly like the little dot in the center of the numpad 5 key? That is the only key like that I have ever felt on a Cherry/GMK set. And I really HATE the way it feels. I rest my left hand on the home row, which is why my F key is the shiniest key on my keyboards. I have a tendency to rub those keys with my fingers while rested there (right hand is on my mouse/trackball). So does GMK have the "bar style" nubs, or are they always the "dots?"

I know the set would have scoops as well as nubs if those are added, but I'm just curious as to the style of them.

[Skuloth]

Someone mentioned it earlier and I'm also curious. Does GMK have support for dvorak and colemak? It would be interesting to see if there is interest for keys to support alternate layouts.

im sure they could , however we wont have the budget nor demand to include that

Fair enough.

[BunnyLake]

I would say it stemmed from you suggesting that we should accommodate nibs by nixing the 1800 support.. 

I didn't say that...again, another person that doesn't actually read the posts..

I actually specifically said I'm not saying to remove 1800 support...I'm just stating I think there would be more users that get use out of nibs than 1800 support.  That isn't the same thing as saying I want to get rid of 1800 support.  I'm just saying if you want a justification number wise, I believe (and I could be wrong) that based on what I see, a greater % would use nibs than 1800.

id be shocked (and slightly appalled) if more people wanted nibs than 1800 support

that isnt me cutting you down, and i can appreciate that there is a minority of people that would prefer nibs to scoops

[BunnyLake]

Let me ask this question, because I don't know the answer. Are the "nubs/nibs" on GMK's F and J keys exactly like the little dot in the center of the numpad 5 key? That is the only key like that I have ever felt on a Cherry/GMK set. And I really HATE the way it feels. I rest my left hand on the home row, which is why my F key is the shiniest key on my keyboards. I have a tendency to rub those keys with my fingers while rested there (right hand is on my mouse/trackball). So does GMK have the "bar style" nubs, or are they always the "dots?"

I know the set would have scoops as well as nubs if those are added, but I'm just curious as to the style of them.

no they are like the nibs on sp dcs, or at least they have that as an option, they may also do the dot as well though, i have the dots on some bsp sets, as well as some dsa sets, and really really really hate them

[jdcarpe]

Let me ask this question, because I don't know the answer. Are the "nubs/nibs" on GMK's F and J keys exactly like the little dot in the center of the numpad 5 key? That is the only key like that I have ever felt on a Cherry/GMK set. And I really HATE the way it feels. I rest my left hand on the home row, which is why my F key is the shiniest key on my keyboards. I have a tendency to rub those keys with my fingers while rested there (right hand is on my mouse/trackball). So does GMK have the "bar style" nubs, or are they always the "dots?"

I know the set would have scoops as well as nubs if those are added, but I'm just curious as to the style of them.

no they are like the nibs on sp dcs

Ah, okay thank you. I've just never tried a GMK/Cherry set with them, so I had no idea.

[BunnyLake]

Let me ask this question, because I don't know the answer. Are the "nubs/nibs" on GMK's F and J keys exactly like the little dot in the center of the numpad 5 key? That is the only key like that I have ever felt on a Cherry/GMK set. And I really HATE the way it feels. I rest my left hand on the home row, which is why my F key is the shiniest key on my keyboards. I have a tendency to rub those keys with my fingers while rested there (right hand is on my mouse/trackball). So does GMK have the "bar style" nubs, or are they always the "dots?"

I know the set would have scoops as well as nubs if those are added, but I'm just curious as to the style of them.

no they are like the nibs on sp dcs

Ah, okay thank you. I've just never tried a GMK/Cherry set with them, so I had no idea.

this is what i assume people are asking for when they say nibs

http://i.imgur.com/jZKGwNB.png

[Polymer]

Let me ask this question, because I don't know the answer. Are the "nubs/nibs" on GMK's F and J keys exactly like the little dot in the center of the numpad 5 key? That is the only key like that I have ever felt on a Cherry/GMK set. And I really HATE the way it feels. I rest my left hand on the home row, which is why my F key is the shiniest key on my keyboards. I have a tendency to rub those keys with my fingers while rested there (right hand is on my mouse/trackball). So does GMK have the "bar style" nubs, or are they always the "dots?"

I know the set would have scoops as well as nubs if those are added, but I'm just curious as to the style of them.

Sorry, maybe I should call them bars instead of nibs...Based on some of the other GMK GBs they have ones with bars (I thought people called them nibs) as an option although traditionally they're scoops which is what I remember having from many years ago...

[Polymer]

I would say it stemmed from you suggesting that we should accommodate nibs by nixing the 1800 support.. 

I didn't say that...again, another person that doesn't actually read the posts..

I actually specifically said I'm not saying to remove 1800 support...I'm just stating I think there would be more users that get use out of nibs than 1800 support.  That isn't the same thing as saying I want to get rid of 1800 support.  I'm just saying if you want a justification number wise, I believe (and I could be wrong) that based on what I see, a greater % would use nibs than 1800.

id be shocked (and slightly appalled) if more people wanted nibs than 1800 support

that isnt me cutting you down, and i can appreciate that there is a minority of people that would prefer nibs to scoops

Could be...I think a good number of people would like it to support 1800..I would too...I just think the actual number of people that would use it though is pretty small...

But thanks for the consideration....I know whatever you end up putting into the set is going to be done with the best of intentions and I'm sure it'll be fantastic. 

[Sygaldry]

and I am most likely wrong

I'm fairly certain that a significant number of people in the TX1800 buy also bought into this GB. This doesn't even account for the number of people in this buy who own G80-1800 boards in one or more of it's many variations.

Also, it pretty much goes to say that the effect of any additional layout supported goes beyond just unlocking the use of this key set for that one particular layout - there is enough overlap between certain layouts to make this possible. Take for example the Lightsaver layout, which could use some of the keys necessary to support the 1800 layout.

I know you weren't advocating for the removal of the 1800 layout support but your use of bogus statistics and the confrontational way you phrased that original post caused many people to rally against you.

It would be one thing to say "I want nibs." But it is something completely different to say "I want nibs because they're more useful than the other keys you've already decided to include."

[nathanrosspowell]

Just want to thrown my two pence into the ring. Personal opinion ahead:

Echoing some other people in here, I think the priority should be compatibility over customization. Finding a alternate color (cyan/purp) escape or enter key might be hard, but it's not impossible - getting a hyperfuse 1.75u control key is going to be virtually impossible in the future. A fair few people went in on more than one set, so I think a nice bonus would be to extend the amount of keyboards the set can be used on. I would ask for HHKB, 1800, 75% styles and maybe even JD40/45 before nibs, and definitely before extra escape keys

We already know that GMK color packs can be successful on their own. I'm sure a purple/cyan run for all modifiers would go though  fine in the future and appeal to more than just the hyperfuse gmk people.

I like the array of options in the Hack'd By Geeks set. As a keyboard fan I think it's going to be cool to see that kit on a wide range of boards. Much more so than seeing the kit only on TKL with the escape and enter keys replaced with orange variations (for example).

As we all know, we went in for the keys shown on the mockup. This is a super awesome bonus! Lets keep the discussion positive and on topic Whatever we get, I can't wait.

[jdcarpe]

JD40/45 support would be great!

[Skuloth]

JD40/45 support would be great!

This would be awesome. Also perhaps we could get 1.25 / 1.75 fn keys? However I'm not sure GMK can do that.

[BunnyLake]

i should probably also jump in and tell people to manage their expectations as to what we can add

if we use this an an example



that pic is taken from ivans dolch gb, and that pack was priced at $24 and contains 16 keys

to add that to 500 orders would cost $12000 which certainly will be way outside the budget

im waiting for margo to get back to me on some piring things, but ill have some provisional mockups sorted most likely some time tonight

[BunnyLake]

oh i should also state that is a more expensive example, as its a separate pack and we will be adding to a larger pack, but a good way to think of it is itll be roughly a dollar a key x 500, so for every key we add in (depending on the key) itll be roughly a $500

[Lastpilot]

With 500 orders in mind my suggestion for extras goes to three windowed lock keys. Num lock, caps lock, scroll lock. MOQ is 400 anyway, might as well make use of the opportunity if we can.

the trouble is the MOQ is higher on windowed keys

you need to order 400 of each, but im right there with you in wanting them sir, it was just a practical reasons, and  i didnt wanna do them as blanks, which was the only workaround i could think of to get them to hit MOQ

[Polymer]

I'm fairly certain that a significant number of people in the TX1800 buy also bought into this GB. This doesn't even account for the number of people in this buy who own G80-1800 boards in one or more of it's many variations.

I know you weren't advocating for the removal of the 1800 layout support but your use of bogus statistics and the confrontational way you phrased that original post caused many people to rally against you.

It would be one thing to say "I want nibs." But it is something completely different to say "I want nibs because they're more useful than the other keys you've already decided to include."

I believe they would get more use but that's just my opinion...and what I mean by that is if you gave people both more people would use nibs than use 1800.  That is different than saying what is the preference for the set.   Some people would prefer more potential layouts even though they would prefer nibs over scoops..but they just don't dislike scoops enough to give up another layout which I think is a very good justification...But regardless, I'm just expressing what I think..

Did you actually read my post?  It was confrontational?  seriously..read it again..

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68198.msg1681711#msg1681711

[jdcarpe]

[snip]

I think this has been beat to death by now. You really don't need to defend yourself any longer. It just seems like you can't let it go, if you continue.

[Skuloth]

I think the key I am most interested in seeing is an FN key for those of us that will be using this on a 60%.

[Sygaldry]

Edit: Deleted. No point in continuing this conversation.

[Skuloth]

Guys stop arguing about nibs and whether or not people are being confrontational. It doesn't matter and it's simply derailing actual discussion.

[Yslen]

Are windowed keys any kind of a possibility? Because dear God yes..!

[BunnyLake]

Are windowed keys any kind of a possibility? Because dear God yes..!

i dont like changing things that are promised in the set, but ill change the scroll lock to a windowed scroll lock for sure if nobody objects to having it windowed

[Skuloth]

Are windowed keys any kind of a possibility? Because dear God yes..!

i dont like changing things that are promised in the set, but ill change the scroll lock to a windowed scroll lock for sure if nobody objects to having it windowed

Seems weird to me to have some keys with windows and some without. However I largely dislike windowed keys.

[vindaon]

I think the key I am most interested in seeing is an FN key for those of us that will be using this on a 60%.

Would also like a 1.25 FN if possible.

[VesperSAINT]

Are windowed keys any kind of a possibility? Because dear God yes..!

i dont like changing things that are promised in the set, but ill change the scroll lock to a windowed scroll lock for sure if nobody objects to having it windowed

I like the idea of an option to have extra windowed caps but I'd rather not have a single dedicated windowed scroll lock key while the rest are non-windowed (caps lock, numpad, etc.). I think that might be a lil' awkward for the overall look of the set.

[BunnyLake]

Are windowed keys any kind of a possibility? Because dear God yes..!

i dont like changing things that are promised in the set, but ill change the scroll lock to a windowed scroll lock for sure if nobody objects to having it windowed

I like the idea of an option to have extra windowed caps but I'd rather not have a single dedicated windowed scroll lock key while the rest are non-windowed (caps lock, numpad, etc.). I think that might be a lil' awkward for the overall look of the set.

yeah i agree been a long day and wasnt thinking etc

[BunnyLake]

ok

invoices should be marked up to date on the site, its possible i missed some early ones, so if your order shows anything at all other than paid, please pm me your order number and invoice number and ill sort that right away

[VesperSAINT]

yeah i agree been a long day and wasnt thinking etc

I got yo back, baby~