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Offline kriminal

  • Posts: 424
Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 16:18:02 »
Quote from: didjamatic;239575
Just twist tie a bodily appendage to the cord so when you get up to leave you'll be reminded to unplug it.


sounds painful
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Offline ironman31

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« Reply #51 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 17:55:23 »
Lol she said she would make one if I obtained the keys.... multicolored
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Offline Stone

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« Reply #52 on: Mon, 16 May 2011, 09:21:37 »
Quote from: Stone;221687
I've been meaning to replace my crappy home iron for ages as I've just been using the Wellers at work - so I'll have a serious look at those in the OP. Thanks!

Finally got my workspace set up - a recalcitrant pin header (one pin in a huge ground plane) foiled my 18W Antex so I've bitten the bullet and gone for the CSI906. The hot-air rework + decent iron combination seems like a total winner - it'll make SMD rework a lot easier! I might even swap over to SMDs for prototyping, single-sided PCBs are pretty cheap...

Stone
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Offline aegrotatio

  • Posts: 334
Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 18 June 2011, 21:11:04 »
What's the word on RoHS-compatible soldering stations today?
My old reliable and decidently cloned generic TechAmerica kicked the bucket recently and it occurs to me I should have something that can melt silver solder.
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Offline thp777

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« Reply #54 on: Thu, 07 July 2011, 08:32:57 »
i recieved a gordak 952 hot air rework and soldering station as payment for modding an xbox controller a few months ago. it is quite nice. digital display for the hot air and one for the iron. really nice not having to wait for iron to heat up anymore. before i got it i was using a black and decker craft iron to do all my intricate soldering it was horrible but i was soldering 30awg to pcb traces with it like a pro.
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Offline HaveANiceDay

  • Posts: 344
Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #55 on: Thu, 07 July 2011, 09:14:16 »
I've never used lead-free solder. Any big differences?
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #56 on: Thu, 07 July 2011, 09:25:46 »
Quote from: HaveANiceDay;375351
I've never used lead-free solder. Any big differences?

 
It's just crap

Xbox 360 users are well aware about this, at least the end effects (33% of dead units due to bad soldering).
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Offline HaveANiceDay

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« Reply #57 on: Thu, 07 July 2011, 09:32:03 »
Quote from: The Solutor;375355
It's just crap

Xbox 360 users are well aware about this, at least the end effects (33% of dead units due to bad soldering).

I'm aware that lead-free solder requires higher temperatures (which my hakko fm202 can surely provide). Maybe they used inadequate soldering irons or had bad technique.

I'm more interested in the difference between lead-based and lead-free. Like temperature difference, usability, anything to watch out for.
Also, is it a problem to use lead and lead-free solder with the same tip?
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #58 on: Thu, 07 July 2011, 09:40:59 »
Quote
Maybe they used inadequate soldering irons or had bad technique.


Obviously even this matters, when one is used for decades with something is hard to get used to something new.

Btw, temp or not, the final effect is more like the cheap 50/50 or 40/60 alloys used by plumbers than the good 60/40 o 63/37 used by electronics.

Obviously i think that with time, increased knowledge, and newer alloys things can only go better.

But ATM i have 3 or 4KG of old style tin, and I don't mind to experiment further.
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Offline daerid

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« Reply #59 on: Thu, 07 July 2011, 09:48:49 »
Just wanted to chime in that I bought the station mentioned by the OP, and I must say it's pretty awesome for the price. The tip keeps its tin really well and it heats up quickly.
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Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #60 on: Thu, 07 July 2011, 09:59:59 »
You can use the same tip, make sure you clean it nicely between changes.

The biggest difference between the solders is that very few lead-free solders are eutectic.  This means that there is a temperature range where some of it is solid and some of it isn't.  Makes for interesting problems if your parts shift during the cooling transition.  Another issue is how the lead-free solder flows, capillary action is hindered by this so you have to get used to the behaviors of the particular solder you are using before doing anything important.  This is why sometimes lead-free soldering also benefits from a more liberal use of flux.

Hope that helps.
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Offline HaveANiceDay

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« Reply #61 on: Thu, 07 July 2011, 12:01:05 »
Thanks for the answers Solutor and alaricljs.
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Offline 8_INCH_FLOPPY

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« Reply #62 on: Sun, 17 July 2011, 23:21:30 »
Lead-free solder is a joke. It has long-term reliability problems(which is why it is not used by the military or medical industry), and it is actually more dangerous to use, since the high melting temperature results in more toxic chemicals being vaporized. Then there's the issue of it wearing out soldering iron tips faster and being a  pain to use.
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Offline RickyJ

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« Reply #63 on: Mon, 18 July 2011, 21:15:29 »
Plays into planned obsolescence, since the device is junk after a few years (depending on how fine the pitches are).  So instead of a device being useable for 10+ years, it's toast after 3.  It keeps me busy in the auto industry though, I repair ECU's/instruments/controllers/etc constantly.

On the topic of chemicals, flux for lead-free processes is way more toxic than good ol' rosin (tree sap based) flux for leaded soldering.  You can get water-based flux, but it must be cleaned after useage or it will absorb moisture and cause shorts.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #64 on: Thu, 21 July 2011, 16:59:26 »
Quote from: daerid;375376
Just wanted to chime in that I bought the station mentioned by the OP, and I must say it's pretty awesome for the price. The tip keeps its tin really well and it heats up quickly.

Which one did you get, the analog?

My decisions:
--FX-888 (no auto shut-off) 70W starting at $90
--Weller WES51 (auto shut-off) 50W starting at $85
--CSI Station 1A (no auto shut-off) $30 40W-or-CSI BK2000 (auto shut off) $40 35W. Both use Hakko tips, allegedly Hakko models with no quality drop. Price savings is notable.
« Last Edit: Thu, 21 July 2011, 18:50:01 by input nirvana »
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Offline N8N

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« Reply #65 on: Thu, 21 July 2011, 18:13:26 »
Anyone have one of these and also an old Weller station with the temp control in the tips?  I think it's a WTCP?  I have two of the old Wellers and have found them quite satifactory, but if this is a significant step up in convenience/usability to this new thing, the price is inexpensive enough that if it's worth it I'd love to give it a try.  (and also not have to buy new tips to change temp setting...)
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #66 on: Thu, 21 July 2011, 18:34:42 »
Quote from: N8N;384972
Anyone have one of these and also an old Weller station with the temp control in the tips?  I think it's a WTCP?  I have two of the old Wellers and have found them quite satifactory, but if this is a significant step up in convenience/usability to this new thing, the price is inexpensive enough that if it's worth it I'd love to give it a try.  (and also not have to buy new tips to change temp setting...)


Do you mean the magnastat solder powered at 24V ?

I used it as my daily driver for more than a decade, i bought a JBC desoldering station, but never used it to solder, always magnastat in the laboratory, or a butane powered Portasol in the field.
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Offline N8N

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« Reply #67 on: Thu, 21 July 2011, 18:44:49 »
Quote from: The Solutor;384984
Do you mean the magnastat solder powered at 24V ?

I used it as my daily driver for more than a decade, i bought a JBC desoldering station, but never used it to solder, always magnastat in the laboratory, or a butane powered Portasol in the field.

Yup, TC202 power supply w/ TC201 pencil.  Got two of 'em salvaged from previous employer.  no idea of age, but they've been working for me so far.  The concept of being able to change temp just by twiddling a knob and having tip selection only dictated by shape is appealing though.  Is there a decent desoldering attachment for the unit in the OP?  I was actually just a few days ago considering buying a desoldering attachment for my weller on eBay in preparation for a "real keyboard project" (I think I'm pretty set on doing a Filco w/ clears.  Or maybe ergo clears.  Haven't tried the ergos yet though, need to get more clear stems to hook that up - I like my clears board too much as a daily driver to take it offline for an experiment, and I got all sorts of disapproving looks when I tried to use a Model M at work.)
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #68 on: Thu, 21 July 2011, 18:59:36 »
Not sure about the exact model but I haven't bought  the Weller power supply... i provided a 24V AC line to my laboratory, connected to 5 or 6 wall sockets (i used your 110V standard ones to avoid accidental connections on the 230V line) so I killed two birds with one stone, a plain transformer is way less expensive than a Weller one and I had the solder handy in all the laboratory w/o the needs of carry around the transformer...
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Offline sordna

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #69 on: Fri, 22 July 2011, 02:46:36 »
Quote from: input nirvana;384926
Which one did you get, the analog?

My decisions:
--FX-888 (no auto shut-off) 70W starting at $90
--Weller WES51 (auto shut-off) 50W starting at $85
--CSI Station 1A (no auto shut-off) $30 40W-or-CSI BK2000 (auto shut off) $40 35W. Both use Hakko tips, allegedly Hakko models with no quality drop. Price savings is notable.

I have the Weller WES51, although I was thinking of the WLC100 first, which allows for the iron to be plugged in directly to the mains without the transformer if you so wish! I once did a little soldering replacing a TRIAC on a dimmer of a lamp mounted high in the wall with a cheapo iron (no station) and extension cord. It would be much harder to do that with a soldering station. Anyway, I wanted something better though, so I eventually got the WES51.

Wow, there's a temp-controlled soldering station for just $18, unbeliavable:
http://www.amazon.com/Stahl-Tools-Variable-Temperature-Soldering/dp/B0029N70WM
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #70 on: Fri, 22 July 2011, 11:40:04 »
It's also available with free shipping directly from their website ($12) if you buy $100:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=374-100

I'll hold out till it's under $10  :)

I bet it might be the same unit as the Weller WLC100...
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 21888[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 21889[/ATTACH]
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 July 2011, 15:59:38 by input nirvana »
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Offline TexasFlood

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« Reply #71 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 07:58:10 »
FYI, just saw there is a Weller rebate that covers models WSA350, 170M, WES51, WESD51 and WLC100.  The Weller WES51 qualifies and is currently $83.55 at Amazon with free shipping.
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Offline TexasFlood

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« Reply #72 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 08:01:21 »
FYI, just saw there is a Weller rebate that covers models WSA350, 170M, WES51, WESD51 and WLC100.  The Weller WES51 qualifies and is currently $83.55 at Amazon with free shipping.
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #73 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 09:55:25 »
Thank you, I had no idea about the rebate !!
The rebate is for purchases between April 18, 2011 and July 31, 2011.
Looks like, I'll get $20 back for my WES51, I bought it after April 18  :-)
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #74 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 12:13:35 »
At a total cost of about $65 for a Weller WES51, it makes it hard to consider a cheaper unit, or an upgraded unit, just looking from a dollar value perspective.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 July 2011, 12:21:57 by input nirvana »
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #75 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 16:24:56 »
A Hakko FX-951 70w for $120 lightly used just popped on my radar locally.

http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?CID=49&PID=4482&Page=1
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Offline N8N

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« Reply #76 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 17:35:48 »
OK, so (warning, off topic) it looks like the sale of my house is going through tomorrow (long story.)

So.  Before I sock away the proceeds in preparation to buy another pad, I was thinking of buying myself two things - first, a good TV, since I've been using my 25" monitor and my roommate thinks that that is unacceptable.  Second, a good keyboard for work so I can class up my cube a little.

I've narrowed it down to a Filco or a WASD (now that that's on the table) but the first thing I will do to it is mod it to clears before even taking it to the orifice.

Given that I have a Weller WTCP, what should I buy?  I have no desoldering tools.  Should I go with a newer Weller or Hakko, or just try to find a desoldering attachment for the WTCP?  (or would a separate solder sucker really be the way to go, and if so, which one would you guys recommend?  I really don't solder electronics nor hang out with people that do; most of my experience is with automotive repairs.  Yes, I've reworked quite a few vintage wiring harnesses.)

thanks!
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #77 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 17:42:33 »
First of all, I would rater give a small, local company some business. For a full size metal plate keyboard I would buy the WASD. Maybe he can sell you a keyboard with the switches separately, so you won't need to desolder anything!
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #78 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 22:00:07 »
First wait for my review tomorrow. I'll pretty much tell you what to do :)
I already spoke with him about unassembled parts, I don't think it's a problem, except for a warranty issue (there won't be any).

As for soldering, I don't like hot air stations, takes too long and is too hard on the board I think. So then it's either one of those nifty, expensive solder-sucker irons with vacuum (hassle) or a hand-held $10 sucker or wick. Wick doesn't seem to work well with lead-free solder (for me).
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Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #79 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 22:05:42 »
If wick is not working well add more flux.  Also, perhaps that particular solder didn't like your particular flux.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #80 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 22:32:30 »
Thanks for the info!

Actually I was de-soldering a couple usb ports from a new laptop, I'm sure it was lead-free, didn't seem to flow as well as any other leaded solder I've used. Is that a lead-free characteristic...poor flow? So I'll brush flux on it next time.
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Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #81 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 22:34:35 »
Yes, that is a primary characteristic of lead-free.  Also crank the heat if it seems to flow in bits and pieces.  It's not eutectic, so some of it is liquid and some of it's not quite liquid yet.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #82 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 22:49:14 »
That sounds more or less like what was happening, I could see the solder get shiny and melt, but only a tiny fraction would wick. Or I was not able to pull the item off the trace even though the solder appeared liquid.

Frustrating.
Very frustrating when you don't understand why something that always worked well, suddenly doesn't work at all :)
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Offline N8N

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« Reply #83 on: Fri, 29 July 2011, 09:29:53 »
so what "hand held $10 sucker" works well?  I don't have one at all now.

does the above post mean that I should invest in some flux?  I assume that I need flux for electronics and can't use the flux that I use for copper plumbing?

thanks
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #84 on: Fri, 29 July 2011, 09:40:55 »
I've only used wick.
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Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #85 on: Fri, 29 July 2011, 09:42:33 »
Plumbers flux is aggressive enough to eat the copper traces off a board if you're not careful in cleaning up.  There are a number of choices in electronic fluxes, rosin is still the best for leaded solder.  For any SMT soldering you'll want a no-clean flux since it's a little hard to clean underneath a chip.

I don't even recall where I got my solder sucker, alu body in blue anodize.  It works just fine.  As long as you find a metal bodied sucker I doubt it could be all that bad.

edit:  This looks good.
« Last Edit: Fri, 29 July 2011, 09:53:20 by alaricljs »
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Offline RickyJ

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« Reply #86 on: Sat, 30 July 2011, 12:44:29 »
^ That's the one I used for years, was never really thaaat impressed with it but it got the job done for the most part.  A couple years ago I got this one and never looked back!

Temperature is key for soldering, but desoldering especially.  If your tip is too cool, you'll take too long and possibly cook the part (they are rated for a certain soldering temperature for usually 10 seconds max).  Too hot and you could damage the part as well.  There's a happy medium with the heat transfer where you can melt the solder without overheating the component, and it just takes practice to figure it out.  For desoldering small/medium components with leaded solder, I find that 600F on my WES51 works well without damaging traces.  Small/medium parts with lead-free solder I bump it to 650F.  Larger components like relays I use 700-750F depending on how much of a heatsink the part is acting like, but you really have to be careful about not damaging the traces of the PCB.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #87 on: Sat, 30 July 2011, 16:01:13 »
RickyJ: Very helpful for me, thank you :)
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Offline N8N

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« Reply #88 on: Sat, 30 July 2011, 16:20:22 »
yes, thank you, I am planning on ordering a new keyboard as well as tools next week and it's always good to get feedback from those more experienced rather than having to go through all the trial and error myself.  I figured that someone here would have lots of experience with soldering on PCB's somehow :)
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #89 on: Sat, 30 July 2011, 22:16:42 »
What size/style tips are better for desoldering/soldering cherry switches and 24AWG wire?

I just got a Hakko FX-951 and need to decide on what extras to get.
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Offline RickyJ

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« Reply #90 on: Sun, 31 July 2011, 02:09:41 »
I've got plenty of tips for my Weller, but I find that for 99% of what I do I use a fine screwdriver style tip (0.031"/0.79mm wide; Weller ETH for those with WES/WESD51's).  For ultra-fine surface mount chips/etc I've got sharp pointed tips, but without a flat spot they don't hold solder worth a damn.  For limited access soldering I've got long skinny tips, but there's not enough mass in the tip to keep the temperature steady if the part I'm heating up is large (sucks the heat right out of it).  Wider screwdriver tips have their uses, but you'll be way better off spending a few bucks on a finer tip that you'll use for just about everything.

For tip cleaning I've always just used the sponge that came with my Weller (on 2nd sponge now), but I've heard that the brass wool you can buy is better.  When my tip gets too cruddy for the sponge to clean, I gently scrape it off with my exacto knife.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #91 on: Sun, 31 July 2011, 20:54:53 »
FYI:

I noticed the solder pump RickyJ linked: Digikey DP-100, may be a re-branded industry standard "Edsyn Soldapullt DS-017" (usually about $25-$30) or a cheaper copy. It's made without the the Soldapullt name and sold for less than $15, name is Hon Bao HB-017. An ebay seller has them for $13.25 free shipping, and jameco.com is $8.95 plus shipping ($7 in-state and tax) Yikes!.

I already got a new Soldapullt on sale for $20 free shipping through ebay (really good price), I guess I didn't want to save another $6 and take any kind of chance.

Thanks for the tip advice!

The brass wool is flux impregnated, one reason it works so well.

THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED
« Last Edit: Mon, 01 August 2011, 17:40:09 by input nirvana »
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Offline RickyJ

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« Reply #92 on: Mon, 01 August 2011, 02:58:44 »
Good to know!  I knew I couldn't be the only one using that pump, it's all-around a mirrrrrrion times better than the cheapo Radio Shack/etc blue aluminum crap.  BTW the suction tips for those DP-100/Soldapult/etc withstand some pretty serious heat (750F so far).  The 90 degree twist to open for emptying is very nice, and the plunger locks down so I can fit it easily in my mobile kit bag!
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #93 on: Mon, 01 August 2011, 11:26:26 »
What particular tools are you buying for keyboard mods?
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Offline TexasFlood

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« Reply #94 on: Mon, 01 August 2011, 12:13:55 »
Quote from: sordna;388724
Thank you, I had no idea about the rebate !!
The rebate is for purchases between April 18, 2011 and July 31, 2011.
Looks like, I'll get $20 back for my WES51, I bought it after April 18  :-)

Someone asked to borrow my old WTCP a while back so using that as an excuse to update rather than go fight to get it back, :wink:, so clicked buy on a WES51 yesterday on Amazon hopefully in time to qualify for the rebate.  I've been told the WTCP really belongs in a museum anyway, hah.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #95 on: Mon, 01 August 2011, 12:56:57 »
Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

Unless someone deals with me. I'll die for principle.
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Offline TexasFlood

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« Reply #96 on: Mon, 01 August 2011, 16:43:23 »
Thanks for the Soldapullt info, think I have one in my toolbox.  Gotta go dig around & check.  I have another but it's cr_p and I should probably throw it out.  Might get a spare for that price.
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Offline TexasFlood

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« Reply #97 on: Mon, 01 August 2011, 17:02:02 »
Thanks for the Soldapullt info, think I have one in my toolbox.  Gotta go dig around & check.  I have another but it's cr_p and I should probably throw it out.  Might get a spare for that price.

I found this TSL017 on ebay for $13.25 shipped free from msd-inc, assume that's the one you meant.




and the HB-017 at jameco.com for $8.95 (qty 1) as you said but looks like they have minimum $7 shipping charge so ebay might be a better deal.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #98 on: Mon, 01 August 2011, 17:17:25 »
$13.25 free shipping (tax in CA) Hon Bao HB-017
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 22985[/ATTACH]
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350461008462&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123#ht_500wt_1180

Will accept $20.00 'Make Offer' free shipping (there may be tax in NE?) Edsyn Soldapullt DS-017
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 22986[/ATTACH]
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180644821086&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_3654wt_1328

There is a chance the $13.25 unit may not be as tough as the Soldapullt. I spoke to someone that has it, he said it's high quality compared to most, but he doesn't have a Soldapullt to compare side-by-side. Soldapullt  is allegedly 'Made in USA', but we know what that means.

The ebay listing near the bottom shows a diagram of the Soldapullt. Since they look identical in appearance, I can't imagine too much of a difference, it's a pretty simple device. If you're a professional or do a lot of soldering, the Soldapullt is the way to go for only $20. If you do a little less soldering, you may want to save $5-6.

EDIT----UH-OH---

http://www.mainelectronics.com/soldersuck.htm

I guess it's the same story, you get what you pay for. No hidden steals here. $20 cash for the Soldapullt is very decent though. I'll go edit the other post a bit.
« Last Edit: Mon, 01 August 2011, 17:36:00 by input nirvana »
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #99 on: Mon, 01 August 2011, 17:34:53 »
All that really matters is that it matches my new Hakko FX-951:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 22987[/ATTACH]

And, I graduated Cal, so it's my school colors. Go BEARS!
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