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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Huntor0 on Sat, 23 April 2011, 15:50:43

Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Huntor0 on Sat, 23 April 2011, 15:50:43
Has anyone tried these pads from EK by chance?
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,slpads (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,slpads)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Tallon on Sat, 23 April 2011, 17:17:28
Several of us have ordered them, but I'm not sure if anyone has actually received them yet. I should receive mine next week - after which I'll post my reactions to them.

We recently discussed this, see this thread - http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17373-Silence!!!
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Sat, 23 April 2011, 17:44:35
Just got mine today but haven't tried them on yet.. too nice a day outside. lol

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/DSC05239.jpg)

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/DSC05232.jpg)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Progear on Sat, 23 April 2011, 18:07:26
Looking at those, I have a sudden urge to play Connect Four.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Tallon on Sat, 23 April 2011, 19:29:40
Did you just get the soft pads? I went ahead and got both, since I have no idea which I'd like better.

Won't come in till next week though ;(
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Sat, 23 April 2011, 19:32:11
Quote from: Tallon;336345
Did you just get the soft pads?

Yup, I got the soft ones, will try them on later.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Shazb0t on Sat, 23 April 2011, 21:23:34
Let us know how they feel.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Sun, 24 April 2011, 16:34:34
Sorry took me awhile.   I put some on today on a PLU ML-87 with blue switches and it does reduce the noise somewhat.  Please keep in mind that I got the soft pads and not the firm ones.  The key travel felt the same but basically it got rid of that bottoming-out sound when you type.

With the soft pad on:

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/DSC05249.jpg)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: guilleguillaume on Sun, 24 April 2011, 17:12:53
Would be nice to know if this helps MX Blue to redeuce the "hysteresis", I mean the gap where you can't activate the switch.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Sun, 24 April 2011, 17:21:10
Hmm.. I don't know.  To me, it felt like that gap was still there and this just helps soften the landing part.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: BaconKnight on Sun, 24 April 2011, 18:13:48
Think you might do audio clip samples? Just wondering.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Sun, 24 April 2011, 18:18:38
^ I don't have anything to record the sound with.  Maybe I can use my iPhone?  It's a 3GS so the camera kinda sucks. lol
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Cata1yst on Sun, 24 April 2011, 18:31:36
Better than nothing :)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: guilleguillaume on Sun, 24 April 2011, 19:02:51
Quote from: ripster;336700
Won't change hysteresis.  As impossible as getting rid of hysteresis on a buckling spring.

Okey!

Was curious about it.

It actually doesn't bother me.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Sun, 24 April 2011, 20:20:02
Quote from: Cata1yst;336698
Better than nothing :)

 
Here you go.  I recorded with that built-in voice recorder on iPhone.  Don't know if you could hear the difference much and since it was recorded using iPhone, you might need Apple's QuickTime or iTunes for playback.

Might wanna turn up the volume a bit.

Before:

http://hotfile.com/dl/115700406/28bdcff/Memo1.m4a.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/115700406/28bdcff/Memo1.m4a.html)

After installed the pads:

http://hotfile.com/dl/115700593/eee5854/Memo2.m4a.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/115700593/eee5854/Memo2.m4a.html)

Please excuse my typing.  I'm not a touch typist. lol  Also I didn't install the pad on the space bar so that loud thock you hear is me hitting the space bar.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: godofdeath on Sun, 24 April 2011, 23:37:26
does it remove the metal vibration sound from the metal place when you smack your keys too hard?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Mon, 25 April 2011, 00:42:32
Quote from: godofdeath;336795
does it remove the metal vibration sound from the metal place when you smack your keys too hard?

Nope, ripster is right.  It doesn't remove the sound completely but dampens it somewhat.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: mjacob on Mon, 25 April 2011, 01:31:33
Quote from: reaper~;336693
I don't have anything to record the sound with.


What you need is one of these (http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Microphones-Yeti-USB-Microphone/dp/B002VA464S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303713009&sr=8-1). Expensive keyboards and expensive audio equipment go hand in hand. And the really scary thing is that $100 isn't even close to being expensive for a microphone.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: BaconKnight on Mon, 25 April 2011, 01:34:45
Nice sound samples. Does seem to help lessen the sound. I was possibly thinking about grabbing some for the mx black choc I'm getting soon, just to have the absolute quietest mechanical keyboard I can get. I see you got the soft pads, do they affect the "feel" of the keys at all and if so how?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Tallon on Mon, 25 April 2011, 01:58:27
I didn't listen to the sound bites yet - but if you want "super quiet", supposedly the firm ones are far better for that (but will definitely lessen key travel)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: elef on Mon, 25 April 2011, 02:35:01
Quote from: reaper~;336657
With the soft pad on:

Show Image
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/DSC05249.jpg)

I'm pretty sure the pad goes inside the keycap. It will basically fill the keycap around the round protrusion that mates with the keystem. If you just put the pad on the keyswitch like this and press on the keycap, it might not slide onto the round thingie like it should. Then it will get pinched between the keycap and the switch and it'll limit travel more than it should.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: CephalicCarnage on Mon, 25 April 2011, 02:45:37
Thanks for the sound samples.  So what's the verdict?  Do you like having these installed?  Plan on keeping them installed or buying more for other keyboards?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Mon, 25 April 2011, 08:53:41
Quote from: elef;336834
I'm pretty sure the pad goes inside the keycap. It will basically fill the keycap around the round protrusion that mates with the keystem. If you just put the pad on the keyswitch like this and press on the keycap, it might not slide onto the round thingie like it should. Then it will get pinched between the keycap and the switch and it'll limit travel more than it should.

I tried that too but it kept falling off when I flip the kepcap around to put on the stem. lol
 
Quote from: CephalicCarnage;336836
Thanks for the sound samples.  So what's the verdict?  Do you like having these installed?  Plan on keeping them installed or buying more for other keyboards?

You're welcome and like someone else said in another thread, to silent a mech keyboard is like putting a silencer on a Harley and that's never a good thing.  Personally, I prefer the sound without these pads.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: elef on Mon, 25 April 2011, 10:24:36
Quote from: reaper~;336898
I tried that too but it kept falling off when I flip the kepcap around to put on the stem. lol
 

 
Then the hole is too big. It's a shame, I might be interested in getting some of these myself.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 25 April 2011, 10:32:42
Quote from: reaper~;336898
I tried that too but it kept falling off when I flip the kepcap around to put on the stem. lol

 
So the haven't even managed to size correctly the hole, as I did in my (ten seconds) tests ?

This is what I call a professional reseller
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Mon, 25 April 2011, 10:49:29
Well, on EliteKeyboards homepage they show the pad on the switch itself so maybe that's the way it's supposed to be?  I don't know.

(http://www.elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/sl120_cs_sw_th620x400.jpg)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 25 April 2011, 11:49:48
Hi, Reaper, nice keyboard :-)  Thanks for taking the time to do the samples, etc.

Quick question:  It was my understanding that these pads were adhesive, but then you said that they fall out of the keycaps.  So they're not adhesive, or it's just too weak?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: marvkip on Mon, 25 April 2011, 12:26:40
wouldn't this be more ideal for Black switches to reduce the sound of them bottoming out?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 25 April 2011, 12:59:02
Thanks for the sound samples...I thought there was a definite dampening, which I liked. My keyboards are Cherry browns, so I'm not too sure how the effect would be different, but I want to reduce the sound output as much as possible.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: isp on Mon, 25 April 2011, 13:40:20
do they actually do anything? how do they effect cherry reds?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: elitekeyboards on Mon, 25 April 2011, 13:56:18
Quote from: reaper~;336951
Well, on EliteKeyboards homepage they show the pad on the switch itself so maybe that's the way it's supposed to be?  I don't know.

Show Image
(http://www.elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/sl120_cs_sw_th620x400.jpg)

This is correct, it is designed to fit loosely around the keycap mounts (of several manufacturer's mounts). If the pad fits too tightly on the mount then you end up pushing the pad into the switch on the down-stroke; i.e. pin-cushioning. Yea, they would be easier to install if they held onto the mount; it's a tradeoff that you have to accept for performance.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 25 April 2011, 13:57:40
Quote
do they actually do anything?


They are very effective. But keep in mind that effective and pleasant are not synonyms, the keys becomes silent and with a soft landing, but this change a bit the soul of the mech keyboard.

Personally i like more the silicone o-ring mod
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Mon, 25 April 2011, 14:12:11
Quote from: heedpantsnow;336978
Hi, Reaper, nice keyboard :-)  Thanks for taking the time to do the samples, etc.
Quick question:  It was my understanding that these pads were adhesive, but then you said that they fall out of the keycaps.  So they're not adhesive, or it's just too weak?

You're welcome and you should recognize that board, it's from you. lol =D  Anyway, they're not adhesive.
 
Quote from: input nirvana;337004
Thanks for the sound samples...I thought there was a definite dampening, which I liked. My keyboards are Cherry browns, so I'm not too sure how the effect would be different, but I want to reduce the sound output as much as possible.

You're welcome.
 
Quote from: isp;337024
do they actually do anything? how do they effect cherry reds?

I haven't tried them on red yet, just with the blue switches since they're the loudest.
 
Quote from: elitekeyboards;337036
This is correct, it is designed to fit loosely around the keycap mounts (of several manufacturer's mounts). If the pad fits too tightly on the mount then you end up pushing the pad into the switch on the down-stroke; i.e. pin-cushioning. Yea, they would be easier to install if they held onto the mount; it's a tradeoff that you have to accept for performance.

Thanks for clearing that up for us. =)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 25 April 2011, 14:47:38
I'm wondering if they make the keys feel "mushy" or just a "soft landing"?
And do they reduce other sound a bit, like the "hollowness echo" in the keycap?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Mon, 25 April 2011, 14:57:36
^ Well, they didn't feel mushy to me.  The keys felt the same but a bit quieter (since I got the soft pads, I'd imagine the firmer pads might feel different).  As for that hollow echo sound, I'm not too sure since I didn't notice it before on this particular keyboard.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: elef on Mon, 25 April 2011, 15:28:02
Quote from: elitekeyboards;337036
This is correct, it is designed to fit loosely around the keycap mounts (of several manufacturer's mounts). If the pad fits too tightly on the mount then you end up pushing the pad into the switch on the down-stroke; i.e. pin-cushioning. Yea, they would be easier to install if they held onto the mount; it's a tradeoff that you have to accept for performance.

I'm afraid I don't understand any of that.

"If the pad fits too tightly on the mount then you end up pushing the pad into the switch on the down-stroke; i.e. pin-cushioning."
What, where, how? Do you mean that if the hole is too tight, the round cylinder in the keycap will catch on the edge of the hole in the pad? That's exactly why you should have a smaller hole in my opinion: keep the pad inside the keycap, eliminating that possibility entirely. The same hole size should work for all or most Cherry MX keycaps, I imagine.

"it's a tradeoff that you have to accept for performance"
In what way do you gain performance from having a loose pad under the keycap instead of a fixed pad inside the keycap?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 25 April 2011, 15:41:14
Quote from: elef;337097
I'm afraid I don't understand any of that.

"If the pad fits too tightly on the mount then you end up pushing the pad into the switch on the down-stroke; i.e. pin-cushioning."
What, where, how? Do you mean that if the hole is too tight, the round cylinder in the keycap will catch on the edge of the hole in the pad? That's exactly why you should have a smaller hole in my opinion: keep the pad inside the keycap, eliminating that possibility entirely. The same hole size should work for all or most Cherry MX keycaps, I imagine.

"it's a tradeoff that you have to accept for performance"
In what way do you gain performance from having a loose pad under the keycap instead of a fixed pad inside the keycap?

 
I totally agree due to the soft material there is at least 2mm in tolerance, so if the hole fits right on the normal cylinder it will fit a bit tighter on higher diameters ones, but I really can't see how this could impact the performance
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: CephalicCarnage on Mon, 25 April 2011, 15:47:00
With all the feedback so far, I think these sound perfect for linear switches where most, if not all the noise comes from bottoming out.  Until I own a board with red switches, I'll just enjoy the noisiness of my blue switches.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 25 April 2011, 15:53:04
Quote from: reaper~;337088
^ Well, they didn't feel mushy to me.  The keys felt the same but a bit quieter (since I got the soft pads, I'd imagine the firmer pads might feel different).  As for that hollow echo sound, I'm not too sure since I didn't notice it before on this particular keyboard.

I understand. Thanks. :)
They don't noticeably reduce the keystroke travel?

I'm wanting to give my split Kinesis the highest quality feel, sound, performance I can. It's a work in progress, and a test-bed.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Tallon on Mon, 25 April 2011, 16:35:49
I just put in my "firm" soft landing pads -

My initial reaction, they REALLY decrease the sound! Actually, at first I was underwhelmed - and then I hit a key that didn't have a pad in it yet, and I was amazed at how much louder it was. The firm pads really do quiet the board. For those of us who want quiet switches (one of the reasons I bought a "silent" das), these are great. The keys still feel great in my opinion and I didn't lose any typing speed (100 wpm). Having said that, they do feel different - but I'm not the best at describing subjective things like that - other than to say I am going to keep using these for the foreseeable future ;).

Oh - I let my wife try. She couldn't feel a difference between the soft and hard pads (I couldn't really feel a difference either), but there is a significant difference in sound. The firm pads definitely quiet the bored a lot more than the soft.

She's all excited - now she wants my Das keyboard! =-\

-Tallon
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Mon, 25 April 2011, 16:45:29
Quote from: input nirvana;337108
They don't noticeably reduce the keystroke travel?

Nope, none that I notice.
 
Quote from: Tallon;337130
I just put in my "firm" soft landing pads -

My initial reaction, they REALLY decrease the sound! Actually, at first I was underwhelmed - and then I hit a key that didn't have a pad in it yet, and I was amazed at how much louder it was. The firm pads really do quiet the board. For those of us who want quiet switches (one of the reasons I bought a "silent" das), these are great. The keys still feel great in my opinion and I didn't lose any typing speed (100 wpm). Having said that, they do feel different - but I'm not the best at describing subjective things like that - other than to say I am going to keep using these for the foreseeable future ;).

Cool.  Thanks for your input.  Now we have both to compare. =P
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 25 April 2011, 19:08:34
Tallon-Firm is quieter than soft. Great. Did you hear reapers sound comparison on blues with and w/o soft pads? Do you notice reduced keystroke travel with either? What switches does your board have? Any negative input?

My Kinesis Contoured has browns that are PCB mounted, any comparative input on that application?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: dr/owned on Mon, 25 April 2011, 19:13:58
Quote from: ripster;336907
I would have rather Majestouch found a Chinese supplier of nice thick doubleshot keys.  Would be as effective as reducing the sound and look/last a lot better than current key offerings (including Signature Plastics's).  

There's gotta be injection molding equipment just sitting in Taiwan gathering dust.

 
^This.  But unfortunately it looks like buying doubleshots alone is just as expensive as getting a used Cherry donor board.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: nhwhaup on Mon, 25 April 2011, 20:02:06
I received my pads today and am extremely happy with them.  I bought both the black (softer) and the gray (firmer).  The black ones didn't appear to have enough to them to even make any difference so I tried them on only a few keys and then went to town putting the gray ones on all my keys.  My keyboard is the Filco Majestouch with the Cherry Red switches.  For these linear switches the pads are just awesome.  The keys were pretty quiet to begin with - only noisy when bottoming out once in awhile.  Even as quiet as they were, my husband complained about the noise when I used them in the living room while we were also watching TV.  Now tonight I got points for the whole procedure of tearing the keyboard apart to please him and I actually like the sound and the feel even better than before.  So a totally win-win for me.  Pretty near silent and still love the light touch of the reds.  Really happy with the results and will continue to use these.  Hopefully the pads will hold up well.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Tallon on Mon, 25 April 2011, 20:24:16
Quote from: input nirvana;337225
Tallon-Firm is quieter than soft. Great. Did you hear reapers sound comparison on blues with and w/o soft pads? Do you notice reduced keystroke travel with either? What switches does your board have? Any negative input?

My Kinesis Contoured has browns that are PCB mounted, any comparative input on that application?

I am using browns (Das S silent, which is plate mounted). If the keystroke is shorter with the firm grey pads - my wife and I cannot notice it. You could say the keys are not as "crisp" - since, normally, you press a brown switch and it requires so little force it basically free falls down until it bottoms out and makes the loud clack. Now there's a pad that stops that. I'm sure that's obvious to everyone, but nonetheless - it does change the feel of the keys somewhat. As far as sound goes - it's almost as quiet as my old membrane board, but has the nice reliable quality of a mechanical.

I did hear reaper's sound comparisons. You can definitely tell a difference from his recordings - and he's using the soft ones. Firm is definitely more quiet - and my wife and I could not tell a difference as far as keystroke length, and any difference in "firmness" or "softness" between the pads was too minor a difference for us to really notice. No negative input - I'll be using these from now on, and I may end up getting another set of firm pads for my next board (since my wife wants this one, I have the perfect excuse to get another mechanical keyboard ;) ).

-Tallon
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 25 April 2011, 20:46:53
Wow, Tallon, you have really answered and offered some helpful info, thank you so much. The browns I use are PCB mounted but I can see what might be the same and what might be different.

I'm sure this information is helpful to others as well.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Khaotik55 on Mon, 25 April 2011, 20:48:52
I bet reds with firm pads would be the most boring keyboard ever LOL.

EDIT: On second thought it would probably feel cool like typing on a cloud.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: mtl on Mon, 25 April 2011, 21:41:14
A cloud of......boobs?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: BaconKnight on Mon, 25 April 2011, 21:42:26
Just ordered a set to go along with my Choc Mini MX black I've got on order. I wanted to get MX blacks for a night-time use keyboard specifically, hoping with the firm pads + MX black I'll have the quietest mechanical keyboard possible. Will try to do sound samples before and after when they get in (although it looks like that won't be for at least a week or so)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 25 April 2011, 21:42:46
Mmmmm.....booooobs :)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: reaper on Mon, 25 April 2011, 21:59:42
Quote from: mtl;337285
A cloud of......boobs?

Quote from: input nirvana;337287
Mmmmm.....booooobs :)

lol I was waiting for ripster to come in with that cloud of boobs comment. =D
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Tallon on Mon, 25 April 2011, 22:01:40
Quote from: input nirvana;337259
Wow, Tallon, you have really answered and offered some helpful info, thank you so much. The browns I use are PCB mounted but I can see what might be the same and what might be different.

I'm sure this information is helpful to others as well.

No problem! I've learned a ton from this forum, I'm happy to give back when I can. What's really nice - these pads aren't much money, so if you don't like them you won't be set back much ;). Hopefully you like them as much as I do!

-Tallon
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: nocturn4l3030 on Mon, 25 April 2011, 23:46:20
Quote from: Tallon;337302
No problem! I've learned a ton from this forum, I'm happy to give back when I can. What's really nice - these pads aren't much money, so if you don't like them you won't be set back much ;). Hopefully you like them as much as I do!

-Tallon

you can sell almost anything on the classified sections too if you're unhappy with the purchase
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Input Nirvana on Tue, 26 April 2011, 00:59:50
Quote from: nocturn4l3030;337341
you can sell almost anything on the classified sections too if you're unhappy with the purchase

NEED TO GET RID OF ASAP:
Very high quality and well built girlfriend. Kinda beat up, with a few small problems here and there, but still has a few good years left in her. Looks like new. Well maintained, records available upon request. Will throw in extras to make a deal. Upgraded to newer model.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: nocturn4l3030 on Tue, 26 April 2011, 01:49:08
Quote from: input nirvana;337358
NEED TO GET RID OF ASAP:
Very high quality and well built girlfriend. Kinda beat up, with a few small problems here and there, but still has a few good years left in her. Looks like new. Well maintained, records available upon request. Will throw in extras to make a deal. Upgraded to newer model.

trade you for a Model M?  LOL
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: panda-R on Tue, 26 April 2011, 17:22:50
Hey it's me the assclown, i like to assclown around because it makes people upset.

I am however very happy to see that the impressions of these pads are so positive.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: mtl on Tue, 26 April 2011, 21:40:44
Can we please find something to complain about with these soft landing pads? This is Geekhack, isn't it?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: godofdeath on Tue, 26 April 2011, 22:28:20
Quote from: mtl;337828
Can we please find something to complain about with these soft landing pads? This is Geekhack, isn't it?

they cost too much
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Tue, 26 April 2011, 22:36:28
Well, a complaint was said that ideally they should stick inside the keycap stem, not the switch.
I wonder how they compare to the red soft silicone o-rings I found, which are very good to begin with (softer and less noisy than rubber o-rings):
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8857&viewfull=1&page=4&do=comments#post337573 (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8857&viewfull=1&page=4&do=comments#post337573)

Only one way to find out, argh.

By the way, with the silicone o-rings, the loudest part of my cherry browns' action now is the upstroke. I bet if the soft landing pads could stick in the keycap, they would muffle the upstroke noise a bit.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 27 April 2011, 00:49:17
Are you able to post a sound comparison?

I have no idea, but would the silicone o-rings AND the soft-landing pads be used at the same time???
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Wed, 27 April 2011, 01:13:59
I would need to buy (that's the only way to find out) the soft landing pads to do a comparison. Also, while you could use pads and o-rings at the same time, I'm sure they would reduce key travel noticeably. In a couple keys that did need a thicker cushion (the Kinesis arrow keys) I used a very thin (1/16") rubber washer and an o-ring. A pad and an o-ring would be too thick I think. However if you don't mind reduced key travel, I bet you could use an o-ring to hold the soft landing pad on the keycap stem, like I'm doing with the washer (see pic in the post I pointed to).
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 27 April 2011, 01:31:54
Got it.

I'm curious the sound difference between the o-rings and soft pads. It seems that perhaps neither muffles the upstroke, but both do a fair job with the rest.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Wed, 27 April 2011, 01:50:23
Something stuck on the keycap underside will reduce the resonance by a really tiny bit. If you're that paranoid about noise, you could try pouring some silicone adhesive or caulk inside your keycaps, that might help more. Maybe you can use silicone to glue the gray landing pads to your keycaps, that might be the best realistic solution.
But to eliminate upstroke noise (if it's even possible), you would most certainly need to open up and modify the switch itself.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 27 April 2011, 06:05:00
Quote from: mtl;337828
Can we please find something to complain about with these soft landing pads? This is Geekhack, isn't it?

 

Already done, the hole is oversized
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: gregh on Wed, 27 April 2011, 06:20:27
Well, they should be colored red for maximum gaming performance.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 27 April 2011, 06:27:41
Quote from: The Solutor;337932
Already done, the hole is oversized

 
That's what he said.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 27 April 2011, 09:05:19
Quote from: keyboardlover;337938
That's what he said.

Ba-da-BING!!
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: MartZink on Wed, 27 April 2011, 09:25:07
Quote from: mtl;337828
Can we please find something to complain about with these soft landing pads? This is Geekhack, isn't it?

They are not pre-cut.

They are not made of gold foam, just foam foam.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: guilleguillaume on Wed, 27 April 2011, 12:04:15
Quote from: MartZink;338007
They are not pre-cut.

They are not made of gold foam, just foam foam.

(http://i.imgur.com/huR4O.jpg)

Well, it says detachable so they're suposed to be "pre-cut"

At least is what I understand.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Tallon on Wed, 27 April 2011, 12:36:46
They are pre cut
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: MrSneis on Wed, 27 April 2011, 14:45:02
I would say that the change in sound and feel reminds me of the "mushiness" of the stabilized keys on a Leopold.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: CephalicCarnage on Wed, 27 April 2011, 16:20:18
Quote from: MrSneis;338181
I would say that the change in sound and feel reminds me of the "mushiness" of the stabilized keys on a Leopold.

Could these be the key to reviving the Leopold's popularity?  I recall so many complaining about the stabilizers.

Just add these, then Leos will have that same feel uniformly across the board eh?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: canon.tk on Wed, 27 April 2011, 18:03:41
I own 3 Filcos and a Leopold and I really like the feel of the Leopold.  The stabilizers don't bother me.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: MrSneis on Wed, 27 April 2011, 18:22:30
Quote from: canon.tk;338305
I own 3 Filcos and a Leopold and I really like the feel of the Leopold.  The stabilizers don't bother me.

Agreed, I 'm just saying that some have complained about the "mushy" feel of the stabilizers and I feel like adding these pads has a similar effect on the regular keys of my Filco.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Wed, 27 April 2011, 18:36:30
dampers/o-rings only take effect at the last 1 milimiter or so of key travel (definitely way after the key registers). The silicone o-rings I tried actually provide a pleasant shock absorbing effect, and the pads will probably have the same benefit. I haven't tried a Leopold keyboard, but I suspect the mentioned stabilizers would affect a much larger portion of the key travel.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 27 April 2011, 20:18:16
Any linky for the silly-kone O-ring supplier available?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Wed, 27 April 2011, 20:29:48
A gotta miny froma oringsusa.com but had to phone them to ask because the silicone 40A durometer ones were not listed in their online store.
Part number is: -008 S40
10c apiece, 250 pieces minimum order. However there are a lot of o-ring suppliers with crappy or no online stores, google and call a few, for example these guys: http://www.alliedmetrics.com/seals/o-rings/ (apart from selling v-rings as well) say they have silicone o-rings starting at 25A duro on their website, however you would need to call them to find if that's an option for the 008 size. Pls report back!
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 27 April 2011, 20:32:46
the clears are easy to find in places like this.

http://www.steelnavel.com/product.asp?ID=1457&MID=197&MID2=1&A1=10

But for a steal price.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Wed, 27 April 2011, 21:34:23
These v-rings look very interesting, I wonder how much they cost.
http://catalog.precisionassoc.com/viewitems/precision-associates-inc-v-ring/v-rings
(http://catalog.precisionassoc.com/ImgMedium/6225.jpg)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: elef on Thu, 28 April 2011, 10:56:57
Quote from: sordna;338398
A gotta miny froma oringsusa.com

You clearly need a better keyboard!
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 28 April 2011, 11:12:16
Quote from: elef;338664
you clearly need a better keyboard!

lol!
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Thu, 28 April 2011, 11:26:21
I was just replying to "linky for silly-kone", my keyboard works fine thank you :-)
Back to the topic, I found this supplier http://www.mcmaster.com/ that has a huge selection of o-rings and stuff, and a very nice online store that allows you to select and choose dimensions, materials etc. Lowest durometer they have for o-rings is 50 however.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 28 April 2011, 11:47:27
I've ordered from McMaster before.  They have absolutely anything you can think of, if you can find it in their 800 page catalog or labyrinthine website.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: elef on Thu, 28 April 2011, 14:32:00
Quote from: sordna;338685
I was just replying to "linky for silly-kone", my keyboard works fine thank you :-)

I was just referring to the baffling number of typos in that short sentence. I eventually managed to decipher the content, I know what question you were answering - I was just teasing.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Thu, 28 April 2011, 15:01:12
tipoz? waht tipoz?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 28 April 2011, 18:54:13
...and this is why pictures of cats and misspelled words are so damn funny...
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: aynjell on Thu, 28 April 2011, 19:50:14
I just ordered one set of firm and one set of soft. I'll be trying them both on blues and browns and I'll let you guys know what sounds and feels the best. For the blues my goal is to quiet them, for the browns I'm hoping for a posher feel so likely I'll be happiest with soft on browns and firm on blues.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: mrsone on Fri, 29 April 2011, 05:32:42
I ordered and received a set of both the firm pads and the soft pads. I put the firm pads on my Razer Blackwidow Ultimate, and the soft ones on my Filco Cherry Brown. On the Blackwidow the clack of bottoming out was eliminated and the keytravel felt much shorter, however it made it easier for me to release the key right at the point of actuation. The only noise now is from the actual clicking, which is rather quite nice. On my Filco with Cherry Browns again the travel distance was reduced, although not by as much as with the firm pads I feel. It felt initially as if the feeling of the tactile point was softened, but as I got used to the feeling of the modification I was able to feel the tactile point better. It still does not feel as pronounced as before but it seems much more comfy.

All in all I am happy with both sets. They do work and on top of that I finally was able to get over my fear of messing with stabilizers on large keys. I think I may even move up to more serious mods as the extra work involved is worth it.

(Also I wanted to note that installing the firm pads on my backlit Blackwidow Ultimate did not obscure the backlighting much.)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: gregh on Fri, 29 April 2011, 13:02:50
I tried the softpads on my cherry red board (majestouch 2), and didn't like it. I gave it 36 hours and just couldn't get used to the "mushier" feeling. It was less noisy but the change in feel was just too dramatic for me. My reds lost all of their crispness. I do bottom out when I type, so that might make a difference for you.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: mrsone on Fri, 29 April 2011, 13:17:40
They definitely do change the way that the keys feel. I am getting used to them still but so far I like how they dampened the clack of the Cherry blues. On the browns, though I may remove the pads as I do find that the shorter travel distance is a little much for me with a lighter switch.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 29 April 2011, 13:47:34
As I said earlier silencing a cherry board is like silencing an Harley Davidson: the noise is reduced, the neighbors are happier, but the keyboard has lost is soul.

You may like it or hate it. It's just matter of personal preferences (as usual).

Bdw the  o-ring mod is less drastic and less mushier, and you can also choose from a vast variety of o-rings with various hardness to meet better your taste.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: aynjell on Fri, 29 April 2011, 14:36:55
Quote from: The Solutor;339232
As I said earlier silencing a cherry board is like silencing an Harley Davidson: the noise is reduced, the neighbors are happier, but the keyboard has lost is soul.

You may like it or hate it. It's just matter of personal preferences (as usual).

Bdw the  o-ring mod is less drastic and less mushier, and you can also choose from a vast variety of o-rings with various hardness to meet better your taste.


The way you talk about keyboards, you should be wearing horn rim glasses and drinking PBR man. I myself am the exact opposite of your situation, I need to silence my blues to make my neighbors happy, and I want more of a soft feeling on my browns. I don't like the clack at the bottom as much as others, though I suppose it's a distinct possibility the oring mod may be the best option for me.

I will have to try it.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Fri, 29 April 2011, 14:56:18
Well, Solutor said you may like it or you may hate it. If you're thinking about o-rings, go ahead and try them, I am happy with that solution, and it's cheap. However don't go with regular o-rings (they are too hard). I recently found that mcmaster.com has AS568A size 008 o-rings, in 50A durometer, which is much softer than the usual 70A durometer, and they only cost about $9 for a pack of 125.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 29 April 2011, 16:39:39
Quote from: aynjell;339251
The way you talk about keyboards, you should be wearing horn rim glasses and drinking PBR man. I myself am the exact opposite of your situation, I need to silence my blues to make my neighbors happy, and I want more of a soft feeling on my browns. I don't like the clack at the bottom as much as others, though I suppose it's a distinct possibility the oring mod may be the best option for me.

I will have to try it.

 
My message was meant as neutral as possible.

I tried the o-ring mod well before any news about the EK soft landing keypads.

So I'm not criticizing nor backing the silencing thing, I'm just giving an opinion about what happen if you mod the keyboard.

The only opinion I gave is about foam v.s. o-ring, for me the o-ring solution is way better.

Quote
Well, Solutor said you may like it or you may hate it. If you're thinking about o-rings, go ahead and try them, I am happy with that solution, and it's cheap. However don't go with regular o-rings (they are too hard). I recently found that mcmaster.com has AS568A size 008 o-rings, in 50A durometer, which is much softer than the usual 70A durometer, and they only cost about $9 for a pack of 125.


You know, I tried o-rings, i like it and i will buy the silicone ones (altough the place you linked has also some 50A nitrile rubber ones).

BTW I'm asking to myself if a meck keyboard with the beige switches and the o-ring dampeners is  just a rubber dome lookalike, likely a durable rubber dome lookalike, but still a keyboard that cost at least 10x the almost equivalent rubber dome one...
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: mrsone on Sat, 30 April 2011, 00:11:54
That o ring mod sounds neat. I'll have to give that one a try in the future. That may be what I am looking for. I don't mind the clacking on my Filco but on the Blackwidow it is pretty loud. I am still trying the foam pads but I will order a set of the o rings and give that a try to just for comparison.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: nhwhaup on Sat, 30 April 2011, 04:32:33
For those of you that have tried both the o-rings and the pads tell me a little more how the feel and sound differs.  I have the firm pads now and really like them.  I have them on my Cherry Reds which are pretty quiet to begin with but the pads really stop any chance of bottoming out noise.  It's funny how most on this forum really like the loud clicking of the mx switches.  I don't so much mind the clicking but for me much prefer a deeper or lower sound if I'm going to have any sound at all.  My first preference would be for a very light touch keyboard with tactile or linear feel that was totally silent.  So for me the Cherry Reds with the linear quiet and now with the pads is the closest I'm going to get.  My other favorite is the topre switches which are not quiet but do have a much deeper thunking instead of clicking sound.  

For those that have tried a few different o-rings - what size and material has worked best to accomplish the most silencing and still leave a good feel to the stroke?

Thanks,
nhwhazup
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: KikassAssassin on Tue, 03 May 2011, 00:12:45
I received and installed the firm (gray) pads on my Filco with cherry browns.

It definitely changes the feel of the keys, and it's going to take a little getting used to. I'm not sure if the length of the keystroke has been reduced (looking at two keys side by side, one with a pad and the other without, I don't see any difference in their height when I press them both down), but there's definitely more resistance near the end of the key stroke that makes it feel like the keys aren't going down as far while I'm typing. It does almost give it a sort of a rubber dome feel, so if you can't stand the feel of rubber domes, these pads may not be for you. I need to spend some more time with them before I make up my mind on whether I like the feel of them or not.

As far as its stated purpose goes, it definitely does the job it sets out to do. My keyboard is MUCH quieter now than it was before. The keys make very little sound now on the downstroke (and what sound there is is more of a dull "thump" than a sharp "clack"), so the upstroke is now by far the largest source of sound coming from the keyboard. If only Filco had used thicker key caps to help reduce the upstroke noise, this would be a truly silent keyboard. As it is, it's still quieter than even some rubber domes I've used.

I might look into those o-rings and see how they compare to the pads. I'd also like to hear some suggestions for which ones to try from people who have used them.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: mrsone on Wed, 18 May 2011, 03:42:29
I just got some o-rings and tried them on both my Razer Blackwidow Ultimate and my Filco Cherry MX Brown. On the Blackwidow Ultimate it worked well, but I ended taking the o-rings off because of the sound of the rings hitting the little LEDs above the switch. Surprisingly enough it did not block the backlight on the Blackwidow, but it added an annoying "ching" to each keypress that I didn't like. On the Filco the o-ring mod is perfect. It dampened the clack without changing anything else about the keyboard. My Filco is pretty quiet now except for the pinging of the metal backplate. I am very satisfied with the mod, however. I used the same ones that sordna suggested, the 50A durometer AS568A size 008 o-rings in Buna-N and they fit spectacularly. So thanks guys, for the suggestions. Anyone have any ideas on how to stop the clacking with a similar mod for backlit keyboards like the Blackwidow Ultimate?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: elef on Wed, 18 May 2011, 05:53:36
Quote from: mrsone;347900
I used the same ones that sordna suggested, the 50A durometer AS568A size 008 o-rings in Buna-N and they fit spectacularly.

Anyone have a link to these from a company that ships to Europe? I know it'd be sort of daft to buy this sort of stuff from overseas instead of picking it up from a local brick and mortar store, but I don't feel like spending hours and hours looking for the right stuff.
Title: metric o-rings might be better
Post by: sordna on Wed, 18 May 2011, 11:26:01
Actually, the 008 o-rings are ~ 1.6mm in thickness, and this reduces key travel somewhat. Also the inner diameter is tighter than it needs to be. You can get metric o-rings in Europe that are 1.5mm thick (and with 5mm inner diameter) which in my opinion would be better than the american ones! I suggest you go to a hardware store and buy a few o-rings with the following specs to try, they should be a few euro cents each!

Inner diameter: 5mm
Thickness: 1.5mm (This means the outer diameter would be 8mm)
Material: doesn't matter.
Durometer (hardness): get the lowest you can find, 70 is the standard, but 50 or lower would be better (softer).
 
Report back. We might be asking you to ship us some :-)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Zet on Wed, 18 May 2011, 13:00:30
I'm really gonna try to make some landing pads on my own, since I cannot get the ones from EK, and give them a try when my filco m2 with reds arrives.
What I really would like to know is, how long do this last, at some point they might just get a little more flat and then just do nothing, but when would that point come, soon or not?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Wed, 18 May 2011, 13:16:35
No way to telll for sure, it depends on the material. Silicon or rubber o-rings should last for years. Even the soft landing pads (especially the gray ones) seem durable. But if you use some sort of foam material with bubbles, that might go flat in a few months. Someone mentioned making landing pads out of a tire tube. That should be very durable as well. You need to find a tube with wall thickness around 1.5mm. Usually, mountain bike tire tubes state the thickness, take a look:
http://www.cheapbikeparts360.com/cycling/bike-tubes-and-bike-tubes-care/
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: elef on Thu, 19 May 2011, 01:26:56
I tried bike innertubes, it's not that great. If you use a hole punch that makes just the right hole (5mm?) then you might be able to make it work, but if you can't make evenly sized holes, all your keys will feel a bit different (the ones with smaller holes won't lay flat and feel mushy). If you try this, definitely get some heavy duty thick tubes. Normal tubes will probably be too thin to work.

I'll try and find some soft 5mmx1.5mm O-rings, thanks for the info.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: elef on Thu, 07 July 2011, 03:31:47
Quote from: sordna;348010
Actually, the 008 o-rings are ~ 1.6mm in thickness, and this reduces key travel somewhat. Also the inner diameter is tighter than it needs to be. You can get metric o-rings in Europe that are 1.5mm thick (and with 5mm inner diameter) which in my opinion would be better than the american ones! I suggest you go to a hardware store and buy a few o-rings with the following specs to try, they should be a few euro cents each!

Inner diameter: 5mm
Thickness: 1.5mm (This means the outer diameter would be 8mm)
Material: doesn't matter.
Durometer (hardness): get the lowest you can find, 70 is the standard, but 50 or lower would be better (softer).
 
Report back. We might be asking you to ship us some :-)

Reporting back: a couple of days ago I went to get some O-rings. Your specs are bang on the money. 5 mm is a perfect fit for my filco keycaps and 1.5 thickness seems to be just right. When I push down a key as far as it will go, it doesn't seem to be any higher up than adjacent keys that don't have an o-ring on them. So travel is not significantly affected, but the loud landing clack is gone. All I could find was 70 durometer o-rings, so they are pretty firm but I don't mind. I wouldn't want the landing to be softer, really.
These things cost me about 0.056 EUR each, so about 5-6 EUR for a full keyboard.
The only thing is... I'm not sure I like them. They make the keyboard more civilized-sounding but I sort of miss the manly clack. I guess the ideal solution for me would be to get some thicker, quieter keycaps instead of using o-rings. The filco caps are a bit too over-the top but the o-rings are a bit too muted for me.
Still, if you need to dial down the volume of your cherries for the sake of your spouse or co-workers, 5x1.5 o-rings are thoroughly recommended.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: kwantz on Mon, 01 August 2011, 16:26:06
I wanted to bump this back up, so what are people views on these? Are the people who bought them still using them? Also to the people who bought both, soft and firm, which one are you using now and why?
Also to the people using these on cherry blues (seems like most people are using these on browns, black and reds, to make them quieter)  what about people using blues who want that extra tactile feel but want them slightly quieter?
What’s your view on them did it actually make them noticeably quieter??
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: mrsone on Mon, 01 August 2011, 18:23:31
I got both the soft landing pads and the firm landing pads. I am sorry to say, but I am no longer using any of them. While they were nice to dampen the clack, overtime I realized that what The Solutor said was true: dampening switches really kills the soul of the keyboard for me. The o-rings were the best mod by far, but then when I got the Cherry MX reds in I found that I really did not even need them anymore. So now I am just using the keyboards virgin I guess (if that is what you would call it). Also, for some reason now I am really starting to appreciate the differences between the keyboard switches more. I even am starting to long for the loud clickyness of the Cherry MX Blues again (I can't use them while I am working so I had to shelve my Blackwidow Ultimate for awhile). So I am not using the pads anymore. I have yet to get rid of them, though.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: nhwhaup on Mon, 01 August 2011, 18:52:23
Quote from: kwantz;391168
I wanted to bump this back up, so what are people views on these? Are the people who bought them still using them? Also to the people who bought both, soft and firm, which one are you using now and why?
Also to the people using these on cherry blues (seems like most people are using these on browns, black and reds, to make them quieter)  what about people using blues who want that extra tactile feel but want them slightly quieter?
What’s your view on them did it actually make them noticeably quieter??


I have the firm gray landing pads on my full size Filco with reds and the soft black landing pads on my Filco TKL also with reds. I've been using them for over a month and like them both for the very quiet and muted sound.  My Filco TKL is my absolute favorite. I wouldn't necessarily discount my full sized board but it definitely takes second place due to when I get a little crazy typing it does have the infamous Filco "ping".  My TKL with the softer pads and white PBT keycaps is just perfect for me.  For me it just doesn't get any better. The touch is so light that I feel like my fingers just float over the keys.  I can type for hours with no fatigue and that wasn't the case with other boards.  And the TKL has no "ping" whatsoever no matter how furiously I type.  I originally thought the firm landing pads would be the best as they are definitely more rubbery but I actually think I like the softer black ones even better. Try them both - small investment.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Fred on Tue, 30 August 2011, 07:35:18
Quote from: nhwhaup;391240
Try them both - small investment.

I wish! =(
Their page suggests 44.50$ for shipping a 0.9kg package, and "email" for lighter ones. Too bad they seemed to not like my email and never answered. :|
Although, it can't be *that* expensive if they're not sending it in a box (I'm guessing not for two sheets of whatever it's made of)... i think.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: greyhounds on Tue, 30 August 2011, 12:28:58
Pad or o-rings won't change the installed height of the keycap. They will limit how far down the key can travel, however. If you compare two keys side by side, one with pads/o-rings and one without, you'll see what I mean.

Also, the effect of each varies with keycap type. Re-lengendable keys work better with pads than o-rings as the o-rings really limit their travel.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Tue, 30 August 2011, 12:39:19
I found that cherry doubleshots don't work well with o-rings either. Basically, the shorter the keycap stem, the more your keytravel will be affected.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25333[/ATTACH]
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: redpill on Tue, 30 August 2011, 12:45:02
I have a set of the gray landing pads if anyone wants to try them, I could never get used to the feel.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: keyjay on Thu, 08 September 2011, 05:23:26
I see what seems to work best for some is going to http://www.mcmaster.com for metric o-rings at 5 mm ID and 1.5 mm thickness.

Now, I'm wondering about firmness. I see Durometer hardness of 70 seems to indeed be a standard and is available with those specs in silicone (part # 5233T31). I also see it available in 75 in Viton (part # 9263K121).

I see in this thread, though, it was suggested to seek a softer o-ring, maybe around 40.

I have no idea how those hardness levels compare to the "soft" vs "firm" landing pads available from EK, though. I do know I've learned enough to know that, given the choice between EK soft and firm pads, I'd definitely want to go with the firm pads.

Any idea how the EK firm pads might compare in firmness to an o-ring at a 40 or 70/75 firmness rating?
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Thu, 08 September 2011, 09:27:56
My estimate is that the gray landing pads have a 30A durometer and the black ones have a 20A durometer. The firmness comes down to personal preference, mine is 40-50. McMaster part # 2418T114 ... wasdkeyboards.com sells the same thing for a bit more but it ends up cheaper with their free shipping.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: keyjay on Thu, 08 September 2011, 10:02:57
Quote from: sordna;412632
My estimate is that the gray landing pads have a 30A durometer and the black ones have a 20A durometer. The firmness comes down to personal preference, mine is 40-50. McMaster part # 2418T114 ... wasdkeyboards.com sells the same thing for a bit more but it ends up cheaper with their free shipping.

The McMaster part number you're using has a 4.47 mm diamater, which is narrower than the 5 mm that has been called ideal. You're finding it fits okay, though, huh? No stretching needed?

And it has a thickness of 1.778 mm, which is more than the 1.5 mm of the other choices I mentioned. That's almost 20% thicker, which is that much less room for travel. I don't know how much these small changes in travel matter but I'd assume we don't want to reduce it any more than necessary.

I wonder about firmness, too. If it's hard rubber but it's still rubber or something similar, isn't it still probably going to do the job better than what it was like with no dampener? I'm curious what it's like to get "too" firm. I'm sure I'll be able to find out for myself soon enough when I try a few choices.

The WASD offering is pretty interesting. They don't mention ID or hardness, but it's .5 mm in thickness! That's a lot less than the o-rings we've been looking at on McMaster that are all 1.5 mm thick and up. It's 1/3 of the thickness of the smallest alernative! And it's that much less change in the original range of travel, which seems desirable on the one hand, though I don't know if that also means it doesn't work as well because of there just being that much less to it.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: keyjay on Thu, 08 September 2011, 10:15:47
I just noticed in another thread someone estimating that EK gray "firm" landing pads are slightly softer than the Durometer 40 silicon o-rings they'd been using.

So, 70/75 might be a bit too firm to be really fun. I appreciate, of course, the comment that it comes down to personal preference.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Thu, 08 September 2011, 10:39:47
ID doesn't matter much, 4.5 to 5mm will work the same. Keycaps stems are 5.5mm anyway, some slight stretching is needed to keep the o-ring in place. wasdkeyboards o-rings are THE SAME  (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?20857-O-Ring-Rubber-Switch-Dampeners-now-available)as mcmaster part 2418T114. They are not .5mm in thickness, they just reduce key travel by that much.
Anyway, I encourage you to get both 008 size and 1.5mm metric o-rings and share the results with us.
Title: Comparison - EK soft vs WASD O-ring
Post by: nikonf5 on Thu, 08 September 2011, 15:28:31
Some points on this from a person who has WASD O-rings, EK soft pads and one un-modded key [E] on his DAS S with Blues.

Basically, I am an O-ring fan and my pads will go to my gf if she decides she wants to go mechanical after ogling my Filco Clicky at home next month as I figure she wont be able to tell the difference if she even wants blue switches.


<1> Mushiness
The EK soft pads are mushy enough that you can feel it when you are pressing down on a key till "the end".
I dont feel it when I am typing unless I really concentrate but it IS mushy so for anyone who cant stand even a little but of mushiness, there is that to consider.

The WASD O-rings do NOT have this problem at all and I mean, AT ALL.
I push down the same way as on the EK soft-pad modded key and where the pads mushiness can be felt, the even nature of the O-rings makes it seem part of the keyboard design as you dont feel anything at all.
The O-rings even remove the slight rotating wobble that Cherry MX keys normally have in their lowest position.
I have yet to see whether the O-rings from sordna's mod feel any different as McMaster Carr wont ship to Canada and oringsusa costs too much to ship here even if I knew the part#.
sordna uses silicone duro 50 but WASD hasnt specified anything except industrial nitrile rubber and although the duro isnt mentioned, I can tell you from pinching them that they aint soft at all.


<2> Ease Of Installation
It could be just me be being anal [this IS GeekHack] but putting the soft landing pads on is a pain as they are loose around the stem and putting the key on afterwards while thinking about not moving the pad around feels weird.
What the soft pads DO accomplish for you is you can feel the final bump of attaching a keycap back on with them whereas with the O-ring, I cant tell and I kept on pushing down on the keycap but no bump.
I have also removed keys after having the pads on for a while and there is not telling whether the pad will be under the keycap stuck on the stem, lying in the "diamond" position on the switch or exactly where you originally put it.

You can mod all your keys at once with the O-rings and they will stick to the stem and stay there until you are ready to put the keys back on allowing you to do everything in one step.
As mentioned before, being completely circular, they are also completely even and thus a lot better integrated solution.


<3> Sound Damping
Dont jump down my throat on this but this is something I have verified as objectively as I can considering the "theory" is mine.
This really only applies to the blue switches as thats all I have tested it with and those are the only ones that have noise "required" after getting rid of the bottoming-out clack.

Basically, the the landing pads cover the part of the blue stem that some of the click noise directly emanates from when you depress any blue switch.
Thus, the landing pad is also dampening the click sound as well as preventing the bottoming out sound.

I found keys with the O-ring mod to have a very sharp precise click as compared to muffling of the sound by the pad-modded keys.

This is a reverse-engineered assessment in the sense that I realised what was happening after I had O-ring modded a few WASD colored keycaps and replaced pad-modded regular Das keys, as opposed to knowing it would be this way and testing it after.



I will bring my Vernier's to work tomorrow and post the exact thickness of the WASD O-rings.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: Krumlin on Thu, 08 September 2011, 16:34:29
I just got my Filco tenkeyless with mx browns - chose it based on all the good info on this site - thanks guys.

Anyway, I've been experimenting with some of the o-ring related mods, so I'm sharing some of my ideas and experiences.

O-Rings
I'm in the UK, so I've been trying to use what's available locally. The best fitting o-rings I found were a 0.208"(id) x 0.07"(thick) - these are a standard imperial size (at least in the UK) so they should be available from most engineering suppliers. For comparison - that's equivalent to 5.3mm x 1.78mm. I paid £5 for 100. They fit perfectly - no stretching required to fit them on the keycap stems, but they're just tight enough to not fall off.

The ones I got are a hard nitrile rubber - I'm guessing they're about 70 hardness which is very hard - I think it's about the same as car tyres. Anyway, I'm pretty happy with them - they definitely improve the keyboard (according to my preferences.) My experience is the same as others have reported - it gets rid of the 'clackiness' when you bottom out the keys. I think it's also changed the way I type slightly - if the bottom of the key stroke is a little softer (and a little higher) it seems to make you hit the keys more gently. Perhaps it's all psychological, but that's how it seems. All in all a worthwhile mod.

Felt
I couldn't find any silicone o-rings of the right size, so thought I'd experiment with some other things. One of the ideas I had was to use felt to make EK style landing pads. Felt is an obvious alternative to rubber type materials - it's used extensively in musical instruments for percussive damping, and it's used all over the place in industry and automotive applications for sound insulation.
So... I got some regular crafting felt - about 2mm thickness. Basically just punched it using a regular hole punch and hacked it in to squares of 'about the right size' using scissors.
My conclusion: pretty much useless! One layer made almost no difference to either the feel or the sound. Two layers did dampen the feel and the sound, but 4mm thickness starts to impede the keystroke too much and things start to feel mushy.

Other Ideas
I've had a couple more ideas but I haven't done anything with them yet:

(1) Rubber Washers.
As an alternative to o-rings. I can't find this mentioned anywhere, but I'm sure the idea must have occurred to others. An M5 1.5mm rubber washer with an outer diameter of about 10mm would probably be a useful alternative to o-rings. I was on the verge of ordering some of these when I had another idea...

(2) Silicone Mat.
I'm thinking of the type of silicone sheet/mat that they sell for baking/cooking. Never really looked at this stuff, but I'm sure it's about 2mm thick, and it should feel softer than the nitrile rubber. They didn't have any in the local hardware store this afternoon, but I might have a go at this when I can find some.
Another possibility would be the rubber sheet they sell for making gaskets - you can get it in quite small sheets in sizes of 1mm, 1.5mm, 2mm etc but it's harder than silicone. A knife and a hole punch would quickly fashion these in to the required landing pad shape. If/when I do this, I'll report back.

Hope someone finds this useful...
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: N8N on Thu, 08 September 2011, 16:39:53
Quote from: nikonf5;412945

The WASD O-rings do NOT have this problem at all and I mean, AT ALL.
I push down the same way as on the EK soft-pad modded key and where the pads mushiness can be felt, the even nature of the O-rings makes it seem part of the keyboard design as you dont feel anything at all.
The O-rings even remove the slight rotating wobble that Cherry MX keys normally have in their lowest position.
I have yet to see whether the O-rings from sordna's mod feel any different as McMaster Carr wont ship to Canada and oringsusa costs too much to ship here even if I knew the part#.
sordna uses silicone duro 50 but WASD hasnt specified anything except industrial nitrile rubber and although the duro isnt mentioned, I can tell you from pinching them that they aint soft at all.


ISTR Weyman posting that he was trying the O-rings that sordna mentioned, so they very well may be the exact same ones that you would get from ordering from McMaster-Carr.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Thu, 08 September 2011, 17:38:58
Let's transfer the o-ring conversation to the o-ring wiki discussion. (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:5450&do=comments&page=4)

The present thread should focus on soft-landing pads, which is a fine product by the way, here's a photo I took when I got them, next to my favorite keyboard:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26193[/ATTACH]
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: keyjay on Fri, 09 September 2011, 01:39:24
Quote from: sordna;413012
The red silicon ones that can be seen in some photos are posted, are 40 durometer, slightly softer than the mcmaster/wasdkeyboards ones, but still firmer than the firm (gray) landing pads.

I really respect and appreciate all the thorough investigation and reporting you've been doing on this subject, so please take this question in that context.

How do you know those are what you describe? The ones I found at http://www.McMaster.com part # 5233T31 are 5mm x 1.5 mm x Duro 70 and they're also red silicon.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Fri, 09 September 2011, 02:18:04
I have no idea about the 5233T31 ones. The only mcmaster o-rings I have tried are the black 2418T114 ones.
My red ones I purchased from oringsusa (not mcmaster) so I know very well what I'm describing. Please re-read my posts, I provided accurate and clear information.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: keyjay on Fri, 09 September 2011, 02:37:05
Quote from: sordna;413193
I have no idea about the 5233T31 ones. The only mcmaster o-rings I have tried are the black 2418T114 ones.
My red ones I purchased from oringsusa (not mcmaster) so I know very well what I'm describing. Please re-read my posts, I provided accurate and clear information.

sordna, I'm not debating or attacking you. Seriously. Please. I was just wondering if you were aware of that variation.

I assumed when you said "The red silicon ones that can be seen in some photos [that] are posted, are XYZ" you were referring to various photos posted by others -- in which case we wouldn’t know for sure which they had unless they all stated it.

Maybe I misunderstood and you were referring to photos you posted yourself. Or maybe they did al state what they had.

Actually, not to quibble, but in that sense you really weren't accurate and clear.

Either way, it's certainly not worth belaboring.

I just mentioned it because I felt that since you obviously are meticulous and through you'd genuinely appreciate this being pointed out for others and ourselves in our team efforts to learn more together.

Well, I guess now it’s clear that red o-rings in various photos could be a variety of sizes and hardness.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: keyjay on Fri, 09 September 2011, 02:41:16
@sordna,

Maybe that was just a typo and you meant to type "some photos I posted," in which case my comments are obviously moot.

Let's not bash heads over a typo.

We all make mistakes. I once thought I made a mistake, but I was wrong.
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: sordna on Fri, 09 September 2011, 02:53:55
It's a typo alright, I ment some photos I posted. I fixed it: are -> I. But still, even with the typo, what I wrote does not imply that my red o-rings came from mcmaster. And my post that ranks them all clearly says that I am ranking the stuff I have tried. Also, apart from the photos, I do mention that the red 40 durometer o-rings come from oringsusa.com. Anyway, to avoid all this babbling at the expense of other readers, how about you delete your last 2 posts, and I'll delete this one in return.  :-)
Title: EK's "Soft-Landing" Pads for Cherry MX
Post by: keyjay on Fri, 09 September 2011, 02:59:01
Quote from: sordna;413206
It's a typo alright, I ment some photos I posted. I fixed it: are -> I. But still, even with the typo, what I wrote does not imply that my red o-rings came from mcmaster. And my post that ranks them all clearly says that I am ranking the stuff I have tried. Also, apart from the photos, I do mention that the red 40 durometer o-rings come from oringsusa.com. Anyway, to avoid all this babbling at the expense of other readers, how about you delete your last 2 posts, and I'll delete this one in return.  :-)

Absolutely! With pleasure! ;-)