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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Tesyu on Sun, 11 September 2016, 09:26:14

Title: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: Tesyu on Sun, 11 September 2016, 09:26:14: Just as title,really want to know the reason.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 11 September 2016, 09:31:26: Quote from: Tesyu on Sun, 11 September 2016, 09:26:14
Just as title,really want to know the reason.

My guess would be wasted real estate.

I mean, really a backspace key should be in place of the top half of a big ass enter key.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 11 September 2016, 09:42:50: The standard evolved to the US ANSI layout with the horizontal rectangular Return/Enter key partly out of mimicry of the IBM Model M. In addition, I would speculate that the move from the BAE could have been motivated by simplicity of design and better mechanical stability along with cost savings realized by the simpler design. The BAE and similar designs for the Return/Enter key required a somewhat complicated setup for the stabilizers, such as a peg plus a stabilizer wire. The big Return keys were prone to binding when the key was pressed off-center.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: ideus on Sun, 11 September 2016, 10:00:40: Cost savings and rationalization of keyboard space area.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: chyros on Sun, 11 September 2016, 10:21:58: Much like Hypersphere said, it's just because of the Model M. IBM has always dictated the standard keyboard layout. It was also because of them that the BAE was standard at some point (because of the F AT).
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: daerid on Mon, 12 September 2016, 10:07:15: Good lord I hate the big ass enter key. It's also much less stress on my hands to hit the backspace key with my right ring key. Which, to be fair, is probably because I have gargantuan super long fingers.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 12 September 2016, 10:23:46: So, you hate the "Big-Ass" Enter because the Backspace key is small..
That is not the fault of the Enter key but of the displaced \ key being on the top row. There are keyboards with the \ key next to right Shift or on the bottom row.

Anyway, the best position for Backspace is on the bottom row, instead of the left half of the Space Bar. (A DIP switch to change side would make it appeal to more people)
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: Touch_It on Mon, 12 September 2016, 10:48:51: BAE is fine. 1u backspace is the bigger evil.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: romevi on Mon, 12 September 2016, 12:02:59: Quote from: Findecanor on Mon, 12 September 2016, 10:23:46
So, you hate the "Big-Ass" Enter because the Backspace key is small..
That is not the fault of the Enter key but of the displaced \ key being on the top row. There are keyboards with the \ key next to right Shift or on the bottom row.

Anyway, the best position for Backspace is on the bottom row, instead of the left half of the Space Bar. (A DIP switch to change side would make it appeal to more people)

Quote from: Touch_It on Mon, 12 September 2016, 10:48:51
BAE is fine. 1u backspace is the bigger evil.

Yup, these. I love the BAE, but hate the 1u Backspace.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: chyros on Mon, 12 September 2016, 12:18:23: Quote from: romevi on Mon, 12 September 2016, 12:02:59
Quote from: Findecanor on Mon, 12 September 2016, 10:23:46
So, you hate the "Big-Ass" Enter because the Backspace key is small..
That is not the fault of the Enter key but of the displaced \ key being on the top row. There are keyboards with the \ key next to right Shift or on the bottom row.

Anyway, the best position for Backspace is on the bottom row, instead of the left half of the Space Bar. (A DIP switch to change side would make it appeal to more people)

Quote from: Touch_It on Mon, 12 September 2016, 10:48:51
BAE is fine. 1u backspace is the bigger evil.

Yup, these. I love the BAE, but hate the 1u Backspace.
Focus Layout FTW! :D
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 12 September 2016, 23:38:29: Quote from: daerid on Mon, 12 September 2016, 10:07:15
Good lord I hate the big ass enter key. It's also much less stress on my hands to hit the backspace key with my right ring key. Which, to be fair, is probably because I have gargantuan super long fingers.

LOVE the BIG-arse Enter key.

It shows everyone you're in charge, by having that behemoth before you.

Also it breaks up the visual monotony of equally spaced 'smaller' keys.

Go LARGE or go home Geeklings 8) .
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: keyladding on Tue, 13 September 2016, 01:35:08: It's all about that bass
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: daerid on Tue, 13 September 2016, 01:43:40: Quote from: Findecanor on Mon, 12 September 2016, 10:23:46
So, you hate the "Big-Ass" Enter because the Backspace key is small..
That is not the fault of the Enter key but of the displaced \ key being on the top row.

Perfectly happy with the \ key where it is. I use it all the damn time (as well as the | symbol), and having it right there between backspace and enter is perfect to me. I realize I probably am in a minority, but for my hands, the standard ANSI layout is about as ideal as it gets in the staggered qwerty realm.

Except for Caps Lock. That thing is useless and always gets remapped to Control.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 13 September 2016, 03:45:08: Don't care if it's a normal Enter or BAE as long as I got muh' nice normal backspace.

I found that the BAE doesn't go down quite as smooth if you press the upper portion on most of the boards I've tried. Even this Packard Bell which has amazing stabs it's noticeably stiffer to press on the top part.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 13 September 2016, 04:25:29: Many BAE have stabilisers only on the "ANSI part", with a sliding post on the top. That might explain why the top is not as easy to press.

I found that there are lots of stabiliser variations on BAE keys. Cherry keyboards tend to have one on the vertical with a dummy switch on the left. Many Alps keyboards have two: one ANSI and one very small at the top. An Ortek OEM Alps keyboard I had even had Alps-style horizontal stabilisers and Costar-style vertical stabilisers...
Overlapping stabilisers tend to be very rare, but NMB "Space Invader"-switch keyboards had them, as did one Alps-clone keyboard I saw.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: ideus on Tue, 13 September 2016, 07:37:10: For actual touch typists only the extreme left of an ANSI style Enter is needed, nothing, more; anything else is an excess, an exercise of pure waste.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: chyros on Tue, 13 September 2016, 07:47:53: Quote from: ideus on Tue, 13 September 2016, 07:37:10
For actual touch typists only the extreme left of an ANSI style Enter is needed, nothing, more; anything else is an excess, an exercise of pure waste.
Touch typing is soooo 2015 man, none of the cool kids do it anymore :p .
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: t8c on Tue, 13 September 2016, 08:41:59: Wonder if GMK still has the BAE molds. I have seen gateron BAE.

Cherry BAE are things of beauty.
(http://i.imgur.com/TkAL6.jpg)
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: ideus on Tue, 13 September 2016, 15:05:39: Quote from: t8c on Tue, 13 September 2016, 08:41:59
Wonder if GMK still has the BAE molds. I have seen gateron BAE.

Cherry BAE are things of beauty.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/TkAL6.jpg)

I like the shape of ISO Enter, but this?
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: romevi on Tue, 13 September 2016, 15:59:21: Quote from: ideus on Tue, 13 September 2016, 15:05:39
Quote from: t8c on Tue, 13 September 2016, 08:41:59
Wonder if GMK still has the BAE molds. I have seen gateron BAE.

Cherry BAE are things of beauty.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/TkAL6.jpg)

I like the shape of ISO Enter, but this?

You've never seen a BAE?
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 13 September 2016, 16:56:22: Quote from: romevi on Tue, 13 September 2016, 15:59:21

You've never seen a BAE?
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: t8c on Wed, 14 September 2016, 08:19:01: Quote from: fohat.digs on Tue, 13 September 2016, 16:56:22
Quote from: romevi on Tue, 13 September 2016, 15:59:21

You've never seen a BAE?
Nom nom. Medium ass enter keys are also cool! Zeniths especially!
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: ideus on Wed, 14 September 2016, 10:47:14: Quote from: fohat.digs on Tue, 13 September 2016, 16:56:22
Quote from: romevi on Tue, 13 September 2016, 15:59:21

You've never seen a BAE?

It is way too much keyboard real state lost; unless, your fingers are as thick as a can.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 04 September 2017, 10:47:41: Necro for reasons:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=91402.0
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: dante on Mon, 04 September 2017, 11:03:51: Quote from: Tesyu on Sun, 11 September 2016, 09:26:14
Just as title,really want to know the reason.

"Bigass" is not politically correct.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: chyros on Mon, 04 September 2017, 14:51:38: Quote from: dante on Mon, 04 September 2017, 11:03:51
Quote from: Tesyu on Sun, 11 September 2016, 09:26:14
Just as title,really want to know the reason.

"Bigass" is not politically correct.
I'm sure "bigass" is fine. "Big ass" though...
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Mon, 04 September 2017, 19:35:55: I have small hands, so it's difficult to hit the center of the Enter or Backspace key with my pinky without moving my hand from the home key row, so I never bought a board with these small keys.

Since this has been brought up, I noticed that a few large keys such as R Shift have holes in the PCB where the stabilizers fit where you could actually install a dummy switch. Has anyone ever tried this and would this work better than standard stabilizers? I realize this would increase the resistance and you would have to insert very light springs or take them out. But the existence of these just seemed strange.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Tue, 05 September 2017, 12:46:09: Having used an IBM XT keyboard for a bit, I can't help wondering if the BAE is a sort of "missing link" between that layout and the Model M. It seems like if you were trained to touch-type on the XT, then you would naturally reach your pinky finger way over to the vertical part of the BAE, and if you were trained on the Model M, then you'd naturally reach for the lower half of it. Either way you're good.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: ideus on Tue, 05 September 2017, 14:20:24: Quote from: Zobeid Zuma on Tue, 05 September 2017, 12:46:09
Having used an IBM XT keyboard for a bit, I can't help wondering if the BAE is a sort of "missing link" between that layout and the Model M. It seems like if you were trained to touch-type on the XT, then you would naturally reach your pinky finger way over to the vertical part of the BAE, and if you were trained on the Model M, then you'd naturally reach for the lower half of it. Either way you're good.

It began appearing in AT keyboards, the successor of XT. I would like to give it a try with the upcoming BAE's GB. Anyways, it is very easy to switch with ISO so my ISO keyboard will be my guinea pig, so you can even switch in between them, back and forth.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: phinix on Thu, 19 May 2022, 06:45:26: Necro again :)

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=116126.0;all

I wonder if its BAE ISO based or ANSI.
ISO would have 3 vertical stems, ANSI - horisontal.

EDIT: its ANSI :thumb:
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: Sup on Thu, 19 May 2022, 07:27:11: ISO enter 4 lyfe.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: ideus on Thu, 19 May 2022, 08:08:40: Quote from: phinix on Thu, 19 May 2022, 06:45:26
Necro again :)

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=116126.0;all (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=116126.0;all)

I wonder if its BAE ISO based or ANSI.
ISO would have 3 vertical stems, ANSI - horisontal.

EDIT: its ANSI :thumb:

The IC including a BAE gives this thread a new chance.
Title: Re: Why most manufacturer stopped making Bigass enter Keyboard?
Post by: Mikhail on Thu, 19 May 2022, 17:19:48: And this https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=117130.0