[GB] Alps Party 60% - Hannibal at the Gates

[swimmingbird]

+1 to Punic War references

[trees]

In for this and Alpine Winter as my first ever GB 

[sean]

Should I use any method to my madness with regards to selecting which switches to harvest from my AEK?  Just do the 60%? pick ones that probably have less use? Should I keep the locking switch somewhere?

To much time to wait without thinking and planning things if you know what I mean 

TMK supports locking switch if you want to use it

[tominabox1]

Should I use any method to my madness with regards to selecting which switches to harvest from my AEK?  Just do the 60%? pick ones that probably have less use? Should I keep the locking switch somewhere?

To much time to wait without thinking and planning things if you know what I mean 

TMK supports locking switch if you want to use it

I know, I have adb-usb on a teensy right now but I'm thinking about moving the switch to a layer toggle maybe instead.  Just curious if anybody else has ideas for that.

[cheddarbek]

Should I use any method to my madness with regards to selecting which switches to harvest from my AEK?  Just do the 60%? pick ones that probably have less use? Should I keep the locking switch somewhere?

To much time to wait without thinking and planning things if you know what I mean 

I kept my lock switch on caps lock, and I use another on RGUI as a function switch.

[tofgerl]

There are locking Alps switches?

[tominabox1]

There are locking Alps switches?

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL_Lock

[tofgerl]

... I want it...

[cheddarbek]

... I want it...

They're glorious. Locking switches, whether Alps or Cherry ought to be more common.

[nathanrosspowell]

Just trying to decided between Quiet Click and Clicky and whether or not to jump in for the anodizing. I think it would look pretty slick on the HHKB plate!

[njbair]

Just trying to decided between Quiet Click and Clicky and whether or not to jump in for the anodizing. I think it would look pretty slick on the HHKB plate!

I ordered clicks for one of mine and quiets for the other. I already have an Infinity with quiets and I love them. I'm sure the clicks will be great, and I don't think you'll have any regrets one way or the other.

[nathanrosspowell]

Just trying to decided between Quiet Click and Clicky and whether or not to jump in for the anodizing. I think it would look pretty slick on the HHKB plate!

I ordered clicks for one of mine and quiets for the other. I already have an Infinity with quiets and I love them. I'm sure the clicks will be great, and I don't think you'll have any regrets one way or the other.

So what I think you are saying is "why not both?"... classic wallethack 

[njbair]

Just trying to decided between Quiet Click and Clicky and whether or not to jump in for the anodizing. I think it would look pretty slick on the HHKB plate!

I ordered clicks for one of mine and quiets for the other. I already have an Infinity with quiets and I love them. I'm sure the clicks will be great, and I don't think you'll have any regrets one way or the other.

So what I think you are saying is "why not both?"... classic wallethack 

Well it would have made sense to order all the same, since they come by the 10's and each board has just over 60 keys. But I want to try Matias Clicks, but not enough to risk two boards' worth. So I'll stick with Quiets for one, which I know I like, and take the plunge for the other board.

As to why I ordered two of these boards when I already have two Alps 60%'s that's just wallethack.

[nathanrosspowell]

Just trying to decided between Quiet Click and Clicky and whether or not to jump in for the anodizing. I think it would look pretty slick on the HHKB plate!

I ordered clicks for one of mine and quiets for the other. I already have an Infinity with quiets and I love them. I'm sure the clicks will be great, and I don't think you'll have any regrets one way or the other.

So what I think you are saying is "why not both?"... classic wallethack 

Well it would have made sense to order all the same, since they come by the 10's and each board has just over 60 keys. But I want to try Matias Clicks, but not enough to risk two boards' worth. So I'll stick with Quiets for one, which I know I like, and take the plunge for the other board.

As to why I ordered two of these boards when I already have two Alps 60%'s that's just wallethack.

Seeing as 70 switches are going to cos me about the same as a case of beer I might end up getting a set of both. The only Alps I can remember trying in real life was a Dell with Black Alps and I wasn't really blown away, so I guess I'm just trying to hedge my bets a bit.

[njbair]

Just trying to decided between Quiet Click and Clicky and whether or not to jump in for the anodizing. I think it would look pretty slick on the HHKB plate!

I ordered clicks for one of mine and quiets for the other. I already have an Infinity with quiets and I love them. I'm sure the clicks will be great, and I don't think you'll have any regrets one way or the other.

So what I think you are saying is "why not both?"... classic wallethack 

Well it would have made sense to order all the same, since they come by the 10's and each board has just over 60 keys. But I want to try Matias Clicks, but not enough to risk two boards' worth. So I'll stick with Quiets for one, which I know I like, and take the plunge for the other board.

As to why I ordered two of these boards when I already have two Alps 60%'s that's just wallethack.

Seeing as 70 switches are going to cos me about the same as a case of beer I might end up getting a set of both. The only Alps I can remember trying in real life was a Dell with Black Alps and I wasn't really blown away, so I guess I'm just trying to hedge my bets a bit.

Black Alps are the worst. That's not even really an opinion. I've seen people recommend buying a Dell AT101 with Black Alps just for the chassis, then getting another Alps board to harvest the switches from (AEKII, IIGS, etc). They're throwaway switches, really. No comparison to Orange/Salmon Alps or Matias.

[sean]

Should I use any method to my madness with regards to selecting which switches to harvest from my AEK?  Just do the 60%? pick ones that probably have less use? Should I keep the locking switch somewhere?

To much time to wait without thinking and planning things if you know what I mean 

TMK supports locking switch if you want to use it

I know, I have adb-usb on a teensy right now but I'm thinking about moving the switch to a layer toggle maybe instead.  Just curious if anybody else has ideas for that.

I'm kinda curious about this too now, has anybody used a locking switch as a function layer, or something even crazier?

[Yoe]

Hmm... guys.. is there more than one version of the AT102W? I replicated the alpha part of the plate in my AT102W in CAD and it ended up like this:



And this is what the plate in the OP looks like:



Difference is the stepped caps lock... thoughts on this?

Edit: Oh, never mind! I just read through the entire thread and realised it had been discussed before.

[E3E]

Should I use any method to my madness with regards to selecting which switches to harvest from my AEK?  Just do the 60%? pick ones that probably have less use? Should I keep the locking switch somewhere?

To much time to wait without thinking and planning things if you know what I mean 

TMK supports locking switch if you want to use it

I know, I have adb-usb on a teensy right now but I'm thinking about moving the switch to a layer toggle maybe instead.  Just curious if anybody else has ideas for that.

I'm kinda curious about this too now, has anybody used a locking switch as a function layer, or something even crazier?

I bought a bunch of MX locks thinking I'd use them for precisely this and have only ended up using two for boards that dd not have toggle functions built into the firmware. On my Infinity, I considered using the Alps latching switch from my AEK but felt that letting the firmware handle it was a better choice. The only drawback I can see is forgetting if you've toggled a layer or not, which a latching switch would easily be able to display.

[tofgerl]

I am planning to use my keyboard in two modes. Each mode would have different layers,  so like layer 1,2 and 3 for work and 4,2 and 5 for gaming for example. Instead of using multiple key combos, a locking switch would select mode, and buttons would select layers.

[jdcarpe]

Hmm... guys.. is there more than one version of the AT102W? I replicated the alpha part of the plate in my AT102W in CAD and it ended up like this:

(Attachment Link)

And this is what the plate in the OP looks like:

Show Image

Difference is the stepped caps lock... thoughts on this?

Edit: Oh, never mind! I just read through the entire thread and realised it had been discussed before.

I know you edited your post already, but honestly, I wasn't looking at a real life example when I designed that plate. I wasn't aware that the Dells had a stepped caps lock position. Depending on which caps people are planning on using for their builds, I can change it easily to the stepped version.

@njbair, what is Alpine Winter doing for a Caps Lock key...stepped or centered? Do you know offhand which Badwrench's mods included?

[njbair]

Hmm... guys.. is there more than one version of the AT102W? I replicated the alpha part of the plate in my AT102W in CAD and it ended up like this:

(Attachment Link)

And this is what the plate in the OP looks like:

Show Image

Difference is the stepped caps lock... thoughts on this?

Edit: Oh, never mind! I just read through the entire thread and realised it had been discussed before.

I know you edited your post already, but honestly, I wasn't looking at a real life example when I designed that plate. I wasn't aware that the Dells had a stepped caps lock position. Depending on which caps people are planning on using for their builds, I can change it easily to the stepped version.

@njbair, what is Alpine Winter doing for a Caps Lock key...stepped or centered? Do you know offhand which Badwrench's mods included?

On-center in both cases. And FWIW, the Tai Hao sets on Massdrop are also on center.

[jdcarpe]

Hmm... guys.. is there more than one version of the AT102W? I replicated the alpha part of the plate in my AT102W in CAD and it ended up like this:

(Attachment Link)

And this is what the plate in the OP looks like:

Show Image

Difference is the stepped caps lock... thoughts on this?

Edit: Oh, never mind! I just read through the entire thread and realised it had been discussed before.

I know you edited your post already, but honestly, I wasn't looking at a real life example when I designed that plate. I wasn't aware that the Dells had a stepped caps lock position. Depending on which caps people are planning on using for their builds, I can change it easily to the stepped version.

@njbair, what is Alpine Winter doing for a Caps Lock key...stepped or centered? Do you know offhand which Badwrench's mods included?

On-center in both cases. And FWIW, the Tai Hao sets on Massdrop are also on center.

Thanks for the quick response! I suppose we should keep the centered position then, for compatibility with current and future GB sets. This would really only hurt anyone who is planning on salvaging keycaps from a vintage AT101(W).

I know i3oilermaker had SP make molds for center-stemmed, stepped caps lock keys for MX, and I'm pretty sure they can swap in an Alps mount stem if requested...

[CPTBadAss]

Black Alps are the worst. That's not even really an opinion. I've seen people recommend buying a Dell AT101 with Black Alps just for the chassis, then getting another Alps board to harvest the switches from (AEKII, IIGS, etc). They're throwaway switches, really. No comparison to Orange/Salmon Alps or Matias.

You've apparently never tried good condition Black Alps. They're actually not bad. They're not my favorite but I like them better than White Alps. Seems like Black Alps are the most susceptible to dust, grime, wear, etc. I've found that their feeling really varies between even switch to switch.

I'm kinda curious about this too now, has anybody used a locking switch as a function layer, or something even crazier?

Yes. I have a Alps Cream Lock Switch on the function layer button for my Siig Minitouch. I find lock keys as a toggle on function layers makes a lot of sense.

[njbair]

Hmm... guys.. is there more than one version of the AT102W? I replicated the alpha part of the plate in my AT102W in CAD and it ended up like this:

(Attachment Link)

And this is what the plate in the OP looks like:

Show Image

Difference is the stepped caps lock... thoughts on this?

Edit: Oh, never mind! I just read through the entire thread and realised it had been discussed before.

I know you edited your post already, but honestly, I wasn't looking at a real life example when I designed that plate. I wasn't aware that the Dells had a stepped caps lock position. Depending on which caps people are planning on using for their builds, I can change it easily to the stepped version.

@njbair, what is Alpine Winter doing for a Caps Lock key...stepped or centered? Do you know offhand which Badwrench's mods included?

On-center in both cases. And FWIW, the Tai Hao sets on Massdrop are also on center.

Thanks for the quick response! I suppose we should keep the centered position then, for compatibility with current and future GB sets. This would really only hurt anyone who is planning on salvaging keycaps from a vintage AT101(W).

I know i3oilermaker had SP make molds for center-stemmed, stepped caps lock keys for MX, and I'm pretty sure they can swap in an Alps mount stem if requested...

This would be the best solution.

Maybe at the end of the buy, BlueNalgene can track down everyone who ordered the affected plate, and ask them whether they want on-center or stepped. In fact, he may have already mentioned this...

[Yoe]

Hmm... guys.. is there more than one version of the AT102W? I replicated the alpha part of the plate in my AT102W in CAD and it ended up like this:

(Attachment Link)

And this is what the plate in the OP looks like:

Show Image

Difference is the stepped caps lock... thoughts on this?

Edit: Oh, never mind! I just read through the entire thread and realised it had been discussed before.

I know you edited your post already, but honestly, I wasn't looking at a real life example when I designed that plate. I wasn't aware that the Dells had a stepped caps lock position. Depending on which caps people are planning on using for their builds, I can change it easily to the stepped version.

I see. The are both relevant as options then. Just got a bit confusing :)

Also, though the ISO AEKII may not be of interest to anyone as it won't work with Hasu's PCB, the plate design should perhaps be verified. The ISO AEKII layout is tweaked to the right making the enter key a bit narrower, and it looks like this:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/3aff9552b4b657d7e216
http://www.finestcomputers.co.uk/FinC/Apple/hardware/ExtendedKeyboard-II/No.3/EK2-1.JPG

A quick glance at the plate in the op, and it seems a bit off compared to that. Actually, putting the ISO AEKII from above into Swill's KB with Poker hole option on puts the holes half-way into some switches… 

[cheddarbek]

I'm kinda curious about this too now, has anybody used a locking switch as a function layer, or something even crazier?

I run a lock switch as function on my 60% alps with hasu's PCB.

TMK doesn't explicitly support locking switches as function (but it does support locking caps and such) - the key with a lock switch is that if the firmware isn't set up to support it, what the board will see is a press and release when first locked, then another press and release when unlocked.

I just modified fn in TMK to act as a toggle I believe. I'd have to go back and look at the file to see exactly how I implemented it.

[BlueNalgene]

Thanks for the quick response! I suppose we should keep the centered position then, for compatibility with current and future GB sets. This would really only hurt anyone who is planning on salvaging keycaps from a vintage AT101(W).

I know i3oilermaker had SP make molds for center-stemmed, stepped caps lock keys for MX, and I'm pretty sure they can swap in an Alps mount stem if requested...

I think I sent you a PM about this at the time when it was originally noticed.

I already have the Alps plates with the stepped caps lock key modification made.  I put them together when people originally brought up this issue.  I'll send you the files by email when I find a free moment.

Maybe at the end of the buy, BlueNalgene can track down everyone who ordered the affected plate, and ask them whether they want on-center or stepped. In fact, he may have already mentioned this...

Yes, that is the plan.  To reiterate here, I will send a small question along with the invoice to every participant who ordered a Dell plate asking which version they want.  I will make it clear in the email that I am asking what caps source they will use, since some newer users aren't aware they are about to run into an issue.  The order will be made after this info with the invoice is returned.  I chose to do it this way to prevent further complicating the order form.  I want it nice and simple.

[VinnyCordeiro]

I wish the deadline were 1 week later, so I would be able to join the GB.

Well, you can't always get what you want, as someone wiser already said.

[jdcarpe]

I wish the deadline were 1 week later, so I would be able to join the GB.

Well, you can't always get what you want, as someone wiser already said.

I can't speak for anyone, of course, but you might PM BlueNalgene and ask if he might be able to extend it for you for a few days. Some organizers are able to do that once in a while in certain circumstances. That is the advantage of having a community-organized group buy.

[braidn]

Speaking of extending this, does anyone have a timetable on the shipping of plates/pcbs?

[digi]

Will these stabs work? From an Apple M0116

[tominabox1]

Will these stabs work? From an Apple M0116

Show Image

I believe so.

[BlueNalgene]

Speaking of extending this, does anyone have a timetable on the shipping of plates/pcbs?

Things ship when I get everything. 

I expect most everything will be quick except for the PCB, since hasu will be hand-soldering them all, and they have to ship from Japan.

[digi]

nothing like de-soldering some 30 year old switchies

[CPTBadAss]

I'm literally the opposite of digi. Just joined the buy for those delicious Matias Quiets. One day I'll be as cool as him.

[njbair]

I'm literally the opposite of digi. Just joined the buy for those delicious Matias Quiets. One day I'll be as cool as him.

Opposite of Digi... So you're not a 49ers fan?

[digi]

I'm literally the opposite of digi. Just joined the buy for those delicious Matias Quiets. One day I'll be as cool as him.

Matias MUSH Quiets?!?!

Opposite of Digi... So you're not a 49ers fan?

Fired!! Wait, you're doing that Alpine Alps GB, nevermind...re-hired!

[digi]

Will these stabs work? From an Apple M0116

Show Image

I believe so.

I'm definitely going to need a longer space bar stab wire, hopefully the rest of em will work..

[Yoe]

Will these stabs work? From an Apple M0116

Show Image

I believe so.

I'm definitely going to need a longer space bar stab wire, hopefully the rest of em will work..

Stab wires are no biggie to make from piano wire if the ones you've got are the wrong size. What's harder to come by is the plastic thingamajigs.. especially the cylindrical ones for space bar (and sometimes enter.) You often need two of those, and depending on donor kb you may only get just one.

[Våtdräktsman]

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/tex-metal-case

Anyone wanna join? Just need three more people to reach MOQ.

Also note the issue with some diode shorting on this particular case.

[swimmingbird]

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/tex-metal-case

Anyone wanna join? Just need three more people to reach MOQ.

Also note the issue with some diode shorting on this particular case.

Was thinking about joining but I'll leave it to the last day

[BlueNalgene]

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/tex-metal-case

Anyone wanna join? Just need three more people to reach MOQ.

Also note the issue with some diode shorting on this particular case.

All you need is a little dielectric to separate the metals.  Electrical tape will work fine.  If you want to make it look cleaner, you could try vinyl wrapping that you can get for cars.

[CPTBadAss]

I'm literally the opposite of digi. Just joined the buy for those delicious Matias Quiets. One day I'll be as cool as him.

Matias MUSH Quiets?!?!

See? Still the opposite. I was pleasant and paid you a compliment. You're just rude.

[digi]

I'm literally the opposite of digi. Just joined the buy for those delicious Matias Quiets. One day I'll be as cool as him.

Matias MUSH Quiets?!?!

See? Still the opposite. I was pleasant and paid you a compliment. You're just rude.

You're right, I went too far...Send me your Kingsaver with Blues and we can be friends again...

I won't be nasty like Hoff anymore. Sorry.

[Våtdräktsman]

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/tex-metal-case

Anyone wanna join? Just need three more people to reach MOQ.

Also note the issue with some diode shorting on this particular case.

All you need is a little dielectric to separate the metals.  Electrical tape will work fine.  If you want to make it look cleaner, you could try vinyl wrapping that you can get for cars.

Yeah I've checked around on how to prevent it, not a big deal.

[BlueNalgene]

Updated OP

If you haven't filled it out already, I have a form for an IC on Matias Stabilizers.  Please indicate interest using the simple form.

[braidn]

I know it was a little up in the air but, have we confirmed that the plates will work with Costar inserts?

[stoic-lemon]

What constitutes a set of stabs in this case? Enough for a 60% keyboard?

[jdcarpe]

I know it was a little up in the air but, have we confirmed that the plates will work with Costar inserts?

The Costar inserts that snap into the plate? No, the plate will definitely NOT work with those.

[BlueNalgene]

What constitutes a set of stabs in this case? Enough for a 60% keyboard?

That sort of depends on what layout you are doing.  E.g. the sets won't have one for an Infinity spacebar.

The sets are what Matias defines as a set. 

Would you like to know more?