On the availability of ISO in GB

[depletedvespene]

What other type of KB should be in Chile? But the Spaniard one.

Remember there are two layouts for Spanish: "Spanish (Spain)" and "Spanish (Latin America)", both designed for an ISO physical layout. In Chile, the official(*) layout is the latter, although the former is commonly seen as well.

That said, it's not difficult to find aftermarket cheap-ass keyboards that force any of the two Spanish layouts to an ISANSI or even a plain ANSI keyboard, often making absurd or outright idiotic changes in the process... and when it comes to Chinese mech-like keyboards, the ANSISO hybrids I mentioned earlier have become somewhat common, too.



(*) Official in this context very very probably means "Back in the '80s, someone at IBM decided so, and no one's ever questioned it.". Some other countries, like Brazil, do have an official definition from a state agency.

[ideus]

What other type of KB should be in Chile? But the Spaniard one.

Remember there are two layouts for Spanish: "Spanish (Spain)" and "Spanish (Latin America)", both designed for an ISO physical layout. In Chile, the official(*) layout is the latter, although the former is commonly seen as well.

That said, it's not difficult to find aftermarket cheap-ass keyboards that force any of the two Spanish layouts to an ISANSI or even a plain ANSI keyboard, often making absurd or outright idiotic changes in the process... and when it comes to Chinese mech-like keyboards, the ANSISO hybrids I mentioned earlier have become somewhat common, too.



(*) Official in this context very very probably means "Back in the '80s, someone at IBM decided so, and no one's ever questioned it.". Some other countries, like Brazil, do have an official definition from a state agency.

I see. I use a Swedish layout that allows me to write in EN, SP and FR with no issues whatsoever. The layout even has three locations that you can repurposed if you do not need the grave accented characters often.

[Puddsy]

the data says nobody buys it when it's available

so the percentage of people it saves more people money is vastly larger than the percentage it solves problems for

basically just learn to use ANSI you giant nerds

[lewisflude]

the data says nobody buys it when it's available

so the percentage of people it saves more people money is vastly larger than the percentage it solves problems for

basically just learn to use ANSI you giant nerds

I've seen this point before and I do get it. In a world with so much competition and so little margin, optimising sets really does matter in order to gain enough popularity to meet MOQ. You say vastly, but the split we tend to see in high end kits is about 80% ANSI users and 20% ISO users, so there's no doubt the custom end of the hobby skews American but there is a significant community outside of the US+China.

What we're talking about here is a 3-4% increase in costs (assuming $5 for adding physical ISO support in a base kit costing $130) in order to enable 20% of the community. In addition to that, about 8-12% of users typically buy NorDeUk kit, clearly showing there's a minority of users who want the option to have legends that are regionally correct.

For many outside the US/China ISO is "the standard" and the custom side of the hobby includes a lot more ISO boards than someone from an ANSI-using country might expect. Not only that, but there's a significant population of people on non-custom mechanical keyboards looking to get into the hobby.

As this hobby grows, if the overall "pie" is getting bigger we should support ISO as the 20% of people using ISO will want those keys in order to get physical compatibility. ANSI isn't the global standard for keyboard layouts, we have two. The one from the American National Standards Institute and the one from the International Standards Organisation and both get about 50/50 usage in the "real world".

At the end of the day, they might just seem like different shapes for keys, but for a lot of people these shapes are fundamental to what a keyboard is.

[fleeceman]

the data says nobody buys it when it's available

so the percentage of people it saves more people money is vastly larger than the percentage it solves problems for

basically just learn to use ANSI you giant nerds

Would expect nothing less from you Pudgy.





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[depletedvespene]

…
ANSI isn't the global standard for keyboard layouts, we have two. The one from the American National Standards Institute and the one from the International Standards Organisation and both get about 50/50 usage in the "real world".

Fun fact: the "ANSI" and "ISO" terms are, strictly speaking, misnomers. Both shapes for the Enter key originated in American keyboards and were encoded and fixed into the current standard shapes by IBM itself in the Enhanced layout. Both Enter keys are American (and so is the BAE "Big Ass/Asian Enter" Enter key, which was not just standardized but actually created by IBM as well, in the F AT keyboard).

Before the Enhanced layout became commonplace, many differing physical layouts and shapes for the Enter key existed, and the most common layout by far was the "DEC terminal" one, as seen in its keyboards (and off-brand units), which had what we know call a "thin ISO" Enter key.

So, if you want to "Buy American!" or something, be clear that both main possibilities competing today came from there.

[Surefoot]

From what i have seen in China they have no own standard, and are using a lot of BAEK (typical asian layouts) or even ISO UK alike layouts. Speaking of "common" keebs that you find at work offices. I have even seen JIS in some places.

[jonowarren94]

the data says nobody buys it when it's available

so the percentage of people it saves more people money is vastly larger than the percentage it solves problems for

basically just learn to use ANSI you giant nerds

Pudgy... The data is flawed. Look at a set that offered reasonably priced ISO kits eg xda canvas and compare that to the hhkb kit (Hobbyist) keys that are often included in base kits, and (probably) about the same cost. Both have similar number of kits sold and I have seen a vocal minority cry out when ISO is included in the base because they won't ever use it, well look at the data its used as much as hhkb layout and yet I for one am happy to pay for that compatibility despite knowing I will never use it myself.

[ideus]

the data says nobody buys it when it's available

so the percentage of people it saves more people money is vastly larger than the percentage it solves problems for

basically just learn to use ANSI you giant nerds

You are totally right my dear. But let us be as stubborn as we can, even if the means that we should live with only three set forever.

[nguyenhimself]

>inb4 it’s a niche ugly set like Jamon

[lewisflude]

>inb4 it’s a niche ugly set like Jamon

Show Image

It's a niche ugly set like Jamon

[nguyenhimself]

>inb4 it’s a niche ugly set like Jamon

Show Image

It's a niche ugly set like Jamon

Weird how all the other kits, even the 40 & the Mac, have no problem hitting MOQ huh?

[Surefoot]

For this particular GB, when pressing other europeans about it, they answered they didnt buy anything from MassDrop due to the US shipping and additional EU customs... Makes me sad, i like this set.

[lewisflude]

For this particular GB, when pressing other europeans about it, they answered they didnt buy anything from MassDrop due to the US shipping and additional EU customs... Makes me sad, i like this set.

Can confirm this was the case in the UK community. We essentially pay 22%+ over what Americans pay because Drop mark German-made GMK products as "made in America".

[tobiasvl]

Yeah, I've bought two keycap sets with international kits on Drop, but with the expensive shipping and the customs (25% in VAT, on the full price including the shipping fee, plus customs handlings fees...) I can't do that often, unfortunately, so Drop is reserved for the sets I truly love and for the rest I rely on proxies.

But yeah, no arguing those numbers are very bad

[tobiasvl]

Ooooh. Looks like Drop is experimenting with establishing an EU proxy right now actually: https://drop.com/talk/23671/testing-local-shipping-in-european-union-part-2

[HotRoderX]

Ooooh. Looks like Drop is experimenting with establishing an EU proxy right now actually: https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-pc37x-gaming-headset-eu#overview

There not experimenting its a thing they been working on and are gradually getting the kinks out of. I wouldn't call it a proxy. As the items that are sold EU specific do cost more as the cost of importing/Vat Etc are rolled into the price. I think the biggest advantage for EU customers is the fact instead of taking 2-4 weeks to get a item they get it in like a week. Also no extra hassle with Imports and what not.

[lewisflude]

Ooooh. Looks like Drop is experimenting with establishing an EU proxy right now actually: https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-pc37x-gaming-headset-eu#overview

There not experimenting its a thing they been working on and are gradually getting the kinks out of. I wouldn't call it a proxy. As the items that are sold EU specific do cost more as the cost of importing/Vat Etc are rolled into the price. I think the biggest advantage for EU customers is the fact instead of taking 2-4 weeks to get a item they get it in like a week. Also no extra hassle with Imports and what not.

Oh yes, I did hear about this. It's really exciting. If they can keep GMK products out of US, then I think Europeans will be much more likely to buy into sets running on Drop.

[HoffmanMyster]

Ooooh. Looks like Drop is experimenting with establishing an EU proxy right now actually: https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-pc37x-gaming-headset-eu#overview

There not experimenting its a thing they been working on and are gradually getting the kinks out of. I wouldn't call it a proxy. As the items that are sold EU specific do cost more as the cost of importing/Vat Etc are rolled into the price. I think the biggest advantage for EU customers is the fact instead of taking 2-4 weeks to get a item they get it in like a week. Also no extra hassle with Imports and what not.

Oh yes, I did hear about this. It's really exciting. If they can keep GMK products out of US, then I think Europeans will be much more likely to buy into sets running on Drop.

Any idea if you all will be able to avoid additional taxes and fees since the caps are produced in Germany anyway?  Avoiding shipping and delays is of course a great benefit, but I noticed that all of the Sennheiser products, for example, cost more in the EU despite being a German company with at least some portion of manufacturing taking place in Germany.  I would have expected our EU brethren to benefit a bit more from this... is the main appeal just the shipment time, or maybe I'm missing something?

[HotRoderX]

Ooooh. Looks like Drop is experimenting with establishing an EU proxy right now actually: https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-pc37x-gaming-headset-eu#overview

There not experimenting its a thing they been working on and are gradually getting the kinks out of. I wouldn't call it a proxy. As the items that are sold EU specific do cost more as the cost of importing/Vat Etc are rolled into the price. I think the biggest advantage for EU customers is the fact instead of taking 2-4 weeks to get a item they get it in like a week. Also no extra hassle with Imports and what not.

Oh yes, I did hear about this. It's really exciting. If they can keep GMK products out of US, then I think Europeans will be much more likely to buy into sets running on Drop.

Any idea if you all will be able to avoid additional taxes and fees since the caps are produced in Germany anyway?  Avoiding shipping and delays is of course a great benefit, but I noticed that all of the Sennheiser products, for example, cost more in the EU despite being a German company with at least some portion of manufacturing taking place in Germany.  I would have expected our EU brethren to benefit a bit more from this... is the main appeal just the shipment time, or maybe I'm missing something?

Massdrop Touched on why the Sennheisers are more expensive in the EU. They have a contract setup that they don't get the products directly from Sennheisers European office. Instead the products are gotten from Sennheiser USA which is a division of Sennheiser. They are manufactured in Europe but then sold thought American division, thus they have to be brought to America first then imported back to Europe.

[HoffmanMyster]

Any idea if you all will be able to avoid additional taxes and fees since the caps are produced in Germany anyway?  Avoiding shipping and delays is of course a great benefit, but I noticed that all of the Sennheiser products, for example, cost more in the EU despite being a German company with at least some portion of manufacturing taking place in Germany.  I would have expected our EU brethren to benefit a bit more from this... is the main appeal just the shipment time, or maybe I'm missing something?

Massdrop Touched on why the Sennheisers are more expensive in the EU. They have a contract setup that they don't get the products directly from Sennheisers European office. Instead the products are gotten from Sennheiser USA which is a division of Sennheiser. They are manufactured in Europe but then sold thought American division, thus they have to be brought to America first then imported back to Europe.

Huh, thanks for the info.  That's certainly an interesting situation, but does make sense.  Hopefully once the Drop EU system matures a bit they can streamline the logistics to make things a bit more efficient/affordable.