Author Topic: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?  (Read 10214 times)

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Offline FlareonTheFalse

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Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 17:49:04 »
I have the Realforce 87U with all 55g keys. After typing on it for a little under an hour, my fingers/hands become really fatigued/achey. Am I doing something wrong? Also, I'm not quite sure how to not "bottom out"; Any time I press a key it goes all the way to the bottom unless I'm extremely careful when typing.

Offline Defect

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 17:51:54 »
Bought mine, didn't like it.  Definitely fell short of the absurd amounts of hype.

I still use it every now and then but I have the same problems you have.  It's very stiff, very heavy, and not supportive at all.  Even the build quality is below what I expected.  Now I'm just angry ranting :(

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Offline exitfire401

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 18:02:59 »
it took me learning how to not bottom out on blues before I couldn't bottom out on Topre. From there, it was a much more enjoyable experience.
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Offline Defect

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 18:04:52 »
it took me learning how to not bottom out on blues before I couldn't bottom out on Topre. From there, it was a much more enjoyable experience.

I could see myself liking 45g Topre, and it's on my list.  55g was overhyped and left me disappointed.

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Offline aref

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 18:30:32 »
I tried the 55g for a long time. I liked the initial feel; but for long-term, daily typing, it's a killer. I sold my 55g 87U keyboards.
I went to a 45g with the hope that I'd enjoy the feel; no joy. The 45g lacked feel. I've returned to MX key switches.

I use my keyboards for writing only. And Topre's 55g switch is difficult for hours of typing. I found the switch more tiring
than the IBM SSKs I owned. I would not recommend 55g Topre switches if one uses their keyboard for typing lengthy prose.

Offline hasu

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 18:51:18 »
55g is for macho :D Looks like you need to develop your finger muscle more. Get model M for a finger barbell.

Or try variable weighted one, which is default configuration of Realforce and for everyone use.

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 19:19:34 »
55g seems to be the prefered variant for long typing sessions from what I've seen.
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Offline keymaster

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 20:12:28 »
I had to switch out my 55g RealForce when I was typing up a term paper because it was too heavy of a switch for hours of typing.

Offline Elrick

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 20:34:29 »
I had to switch out my 55g RealForce when I was typing up a term paper because it was too heavy of a switch for hours of typing.

55g is fine.  How else can you attune your ligaments then to use these brilliantly tuned babies.  When I'm not being an MX fan-boy I still love hitting these for some hours, just easy to not make mistakes and your selection of every key definitely gives you decent feedback, compared to softer switches.

If you are finding it hard to lift your fingers to actuate a key-switch, then maybe it's time to look into Dragon Speech Software.

Offline Polymer

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 21:12:20 »
I have the Realforce 87U with all 55g keys. After typing on it for a little under an hour, my fingers/hands become really fatigued/achey. Am I doing something wrong? Also, I'm not quite sure how to not "bottom out"; Any time I press a key it goes all the way to the bottom unless I'm extremely careful when typing.

You're going to bottom out with Topre..you just are.  You can minimize it a bit..but lightly bottoming out is going to happen..that is the nature of that switch and honestly, one of the best parts of using it.

As far as fatigue...I'm sure you must have read comments on the 55g Topre..some people really love it..for some it is too tiring...It has nothing to do with how you're using it but just how much more work your hands/fingers need to work. 

From this point you can either keep using it and get used to it (you will get used to the weight) or sell it and move to 45g or some other type of switch...

Offline alosec

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 21:13:21 »
I'm not a wuss with tiny hands, I love my 55g realforce. I use it for long gaming sessions, and the two essays I've typed with it were both fine.

Offline nobee

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 21:31:23 »
As much as I absolutely love typing on my 55g RF, I'm actually glad I only use it periodically. In fact, I think that's the only reason why I love it so much. I use my FC660C as my daily driver, but occasionally I would switch to my 55g on another computer to do more secondary tasks at work. I think I would hate it if I had to type on it for long periods because it really does feel heavy on the fingers after a while. I would still recommend it because it really does feel fantastic to type on, but if you use it as a daily driver to type term papers, or your job requires you to type up a lot documentation or reports for hours on end, I wouldn't recommend the 55g.
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Offline PointyFox

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 21:46:47 »
Topres are designed for bottoming out.  Also you're a wimp. 55g is nothing.

Offline smknjoe

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 22:16:19 »
...just to pile it on a little...how can you (all) be so tired by "ergo" (compared to rd and bs they are) switches? I'd guess that everyone here learned to type on standard rubber domes or buckling springs which are both much heavier...
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Offline FlareonTheFalse

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 22:55:09 »
If you can type on buckling springs or similar, good for you. I don't care, and neither do the other people in this thread who felt the 55g was a bit uncomfortable. This isn't a pissing contest to see who can handle the heaviest keys. Be a bit more respectful, and try to refrain from calling people wusses or wimps when stating your opinion, please. And of course, this is aimed pretty much directly at the people who used that wording in their posts.


Of course, I'm not calling the 87U 55g a bad keyboard. This is my first mechanical keyboard; EVERYTHING before this point has been the absolute cheapest rubber dome keyboard money could buy at Wal-mart in the technology aisle. I love the response from the keys and the sound that they make while typing on them. Everything feels premium and I don't regret spending the $200 I did on the board. However, it just feels a tad heavy to me, which is concerning, because I intend to use the thing for programming in around a month or two at university. I don't want to kill my fingers after typing for hours on end using a board that might put too much stress on them.

« Last Edit: Mon, 16 June 2014, 23:02:10 by FlareonTheFalse »

Offline rowdy

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 22:59:10 »
Some people prefer lighter switches - that is why there are alternatives.

If there weren't lighter switches, a lot of people would simply give mechanical keyboards a miss.
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Offline smknjoe

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 23:07:28 »
Some people prefer lighter switches - that is why there are alternatives.

If there weren't lighter switches, a lot of people would simply give mechanical keyboards a miss.

That's my point though. Only "mechanical"  boards offer lighter switches. The cheap rubber domes that most people here started out on are much heavier (60-80g) than most mechanical boards including the 55g Realforce. So, I'm just questioning how going from a heavier RD to a lighter RD/Mech can result in more typing fatigue. 
« Last Edit: Mon, 16 June 2014, 23:09:46 by smknjoe »
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Offline Polymer

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 23:22:42 »
Some people prefer lighter switches - that is why there are alternatives.

If there weren't lighter switches, a lot of people would simply give mechanical keyboards a miss.

That's my point though. Only "mechanical"  boards offer lighter switches. The cheap rubber domes that most people here started out on are much heavier (60-80g) than most mechanical boards including the 55g Realforce. So, I'm just questioning how going from a heavier RD to a lighter RD/Mech can result in more typing fatigue.

I don't think that is true at all..I'd say most rubber dome keyboards are about the same as 45g Topre...with some being heavier...add in scissor switch keyboards as well which do not take much force to press down...Otherwise 55g would be closer to what people are used to..and we know that isn't true either...

Offline histevenhere

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 23:23:54 »
I have the 55g and a variable weight RF and I enjoy the variabled weight one better for typing. The 55g felt smoother and richer in experience for the brief sessions I could use it for until the fatigue kicked in :(
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Offline FlareonTheFalse

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 23:28:55 »
If thats true @skmnjoe, it could be the fact that the 87U 55g introduces more key travel than a standard, cheap rubber dome keyboard tends to these days. It was a change from my previous keyboard, for sure. I enjoy typing on the 87U until my hands begin to get tired.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 23:30:13 »
Some people prefer lighter switches - that is why there are alternatives.

If there weren't lighter switches, a lot of people would simply give mechanical keyboards a miss.

That's my point though. Only "mechanical"  boards offer lighter switches. The cheap rubber domes that most people here started out on are much heavier (60-80g) than most mechanical boards including the 55g Realforce. So, I'm just questioning how going from a heavier RD to a lighter RD/Mech can result in more typing fatigue.

I don't think that is true at all..I'd say most rubber dome keyboards are about the same as 45g Topre...with some being heavier...add in scissor switch keyboards as well which do not take much force to press down...Otherwise 55g would be closer to what people are used to..and we know that isn't true either...

But with rubber dome you HAVE to bottom out to make contact between the membrane and the metallic-coated rubber plunger, in order to register the key.

This would eventually take its toll due to impact stress on your fingers and wrists.

Most mechanical keyboards do not require bottoming out to register the key stroks.

What about Topre?  I have only HHKB and tend to bottom out all the time.  Can't say I've tried to type on Topre without just naturally bottoming out.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline smknjoe

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 23:47:20 »
Well the wiki is still lacking at lot of material since it was "reformatted" a couple of years ago, but a quick google search turns up an average actuation force of 45-80+g depending on who you believe. I haven't tested the force for myself, buy my laptop switches are pretty close to MX greens I would guess.
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Offline Polymer

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 17 June 2014, 07:58:07 »
But with rubber dome you HAVE to bottom out to make contact between the membrane and the metallic-coated rubber plunger, in order to register the key.

This would eventually take its toll due to impact stress on your fingers and wrists.

Most mechanical keyboards do not require bottoming out to register the key stroks.

What about Topre?  I have only HHKB and tend to bottom out all the time.  Can't say I've tried to type on Topre without just naturally bottoming out.

You bottom out with Topre anyways...So what is really the difference?  You don't HAVE to but you do..by the very nature of the switch you do...

The bottom out of a rubber dome keyboard is not a big deal...you don't have to smash it it can be light..just as Topre is just light.

Now with really light switches or even a lot of cherry switches, you don't have to bottom out...but no doubt, not bottoming out at all takes its toll on your speed...

Not one person has demonstrated typing at speed and not bottoming out...There some that bottom out lightly or bottom out only some of the time..but you're just not going to type w/o bottoming out at all..not without losing speed.

I've even seen some people type not with their finger tips but where your finger prints are...the oddest thing I've seen..but that was their attempt at not bottoming out and just watching that made me want to smack them...

Offline Puddsy

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 17 June 2014, 10:44:04 »
Well the wiki is still lacking at lot of material since it was "reformatted" a couple of years ago, but a quick google search turns up an average actuation force of 45-80+g depending on who you believe. I haven't tested the force for myself, buy my laptop switches are pretty close to MX greens I would guess.

depends on the laptop


What about Topre?  I have only HHKB and tend to bottom out all the time.  Can't say I've tried to type on Topre without just naturally bottoming out.

You don't have to, but most people will do it anyway, since you get the full Topre "thock" if you do that.

Topre actuates somewhere in the middle third of the downstroke.
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Offline ctbear

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 17 June 2014, 16:11:38 »
This is always up to personal preference. I have the RF 55g at work and a HHKB at home and I am really close to just sell the HHKB, just because it's so light.

Offline esoomenona

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 17 June 2014, 16:18:36 »
This is always up to personal preference. I have the RF 55g at work and a HHKB at home and I am really close to just sell the HHKB, just because it's so light.

Mod the HHKB with 55g switches?

Personally, typing on a 55g for extended periods of time isn't a problem for most fingers. On a RF, it's perfectly fine. But with the HHKB, because of the position and usage of my pinkies on keys such as Ctrl and Fn, I have found those keys to be too heavy. Thus, when I get some time, I plan to swap certain keys back to 45g.

Offline Beca

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 17 June 2014, 16:22:49 »
it took me learning how to not bottom out on blues before I couldn't bottom out on Topre. From there, it was a much more enjoyable experience.

I could see myself liking 45g Topre, and it's on my list.  55g was overhyped and left me disappointed.
I saw someone compare the weight of the 55g to mx blacks, and that's when I knew that it was going to be too heavy. I'm typing on a 45g Realforce right now, and it's not as light or non-tactile as everyone says it is.

Then again, I have weak fingers :eek:

Offline Daspartic

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 17 June 2014, 16:27:47 »
Just stick with it and give it some more time.  After a while your fingers won't feel fatigued or achy after you use it for extended periods of time, especially after the domes get broken in.
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Offline Beca

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 17 June 2014, 17:19:39 »
Just stick with it and give it some more time.  After a while your fingers won't feel fatigued or achy after you use it for extended periods of time, especially after the domes get broken in.
Don't topre rubber domes get stiffer over time?

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 17 June 2014, 17:22:38 »
Just stick with it and give it some more time.  After a while your fingers won't feel fatigued or achy after you use it for extended periods of time, especially after the domes get broken in.
Don't topre rubber domes get stiffer over time?

I thought the opposite was true, and that they got lighter due to wear

Paging mkawa
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Offline Defect

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 17 June 2014, 17:49:41 »
Just stick with it and give it some more time.  After a while your fingers won't feel fatigued or achy after you use it for extended periods of time, especially after the domes get broken in.
Don't topre rubber domes get stiffer over time?

I thought the opposite was true, and that they got lighter due to wear

Paging mkawa

I bring my 87u 55g to work every now and then to try to "break in" the domes.  No progress so far.  Still my least favorite of all my boards.  If the cups softened up I could see myself using it more. 

Requires so much force to break the top, and then offers 0 cushioning for a very harsh bottom out.  And it's not about dainty fingers--I've been power lifting for over 8 years and have NO issues with my Buckling Spring or Stock/Panda clears and Ghost Blacks.

Not pictured: KeyCool 84 [MX Red] | Focus 2001 [Complicated White Alps]
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 17 June 2014, 18:52:37 »
Just stick with it and give it some more time.  After a while your fingers won't feel fatigued or achy after you use it for extended periods of time, especially after the domes get broken in.
Don't topre rubber domes get stiffer over time?

I thought the opposite was true, and that they got lighter due to wear

Paging mkawa

I bring my 87u 55g to work every now and then to try to "break in" the domes.  No progress so far.  Still my least favorite of all my boards.  If the cups softened up I could see myself using it more. 

Requires so much force to break the top, and then offers 0 cushioning for a very harsh bottom out.  And it's not about dainty fingers--I've been power lifting for over 8 years and have NO issues with my Buckling Spring or Stock/Panda clears and Ghost Blacks.

That could be an idiosyncrasy of that particular keyboard, maybe?

I have several keyboards with MX blacks, for example.  One is an absolute joy to type on (might be vintage blacks, the keyboard is sufficiently old for that), one is lpeasant to type on, and the other one (the newest one) feels a bit ... gritty.

It might just be a bad example of a 55g Topre board you have.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline Daspartic

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 17 June 2014, 19:57:21 »
Just stick with it and give it some more time.  After a while your fingers won't feel fatigued or achy after you use it for extended periods of time, especially after the domes get broken in.
Don't topre rubber domes get stiffer over time?
I've heard of that happening but I'm not sure of the validity of that claim.  But I know in the short term, the domes do get a little less stiff.
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Offline Danule

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 08:32:08 »
I have found so far after a year with a 45g it has gotten a little softer. Topre still offers the smoothest typing experience so far.
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Offline fatmav

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 21 June 2014, 17:28:56 »
I like using my 55U for a change sometimes, but really I find that you need almost "perfect technique" to use this keyboard right if you want to type on it for the entire day. The keys are rather unforgiving: you must hit the keys at a small range of angles for the keys to feel "right". If you hit a key at a "wrong" angle, the keys are just annoying at best and the sharp edges on the PBT caps can actually dig into your finger tips. Another problem is the space bar: it's not the angle, it's the stiffness when you hit it off center. The experience improves a lot if you press the spacebar closer to center. Alas, as the wear on my spacebar shows, I tend to hit the spacebar at almost the 85% point to the right and this is just bad. I had to constantly remind myself to hit the space bar closer to the center when I am on my 55U. On the days when I am lazy and want to anchor my palm on the wrist rest, perfect technique is just not going to happen and so I happily swap out the keyboard and replace it with something else.

Lately I have been breaking into a Code Clear and every once in a while I come back to try the 55U for an hour or two and that's when I start to notice that it really is the thock-thock sound that I like, not so much about the switch. However, I don't hate the keyboard so to speak. Of the three in the office who had tried my 55U, all three agree that it's a very nice keyboard *if* you type with your wrists in the air. The problem, again, is that this does not happen everyday.
(We had a 45 variable before... the problem is the "a" key being way too soft...)

Offline ckar

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 21 June 2014, 18:42:52 »
After reading this thread it amazes me how much variation people can experience using the same keyboard. I recently got the Realforce 87U 55g and it has been an absolute joy to type on. I haven't experienced any of the strange problems you all have been writing about here in this thread. My conclusion would be it really is the user that has the problems and not the keyboard. I am writing this only because I don't want people who are considering getting a Topre keyboard to make a mistake and dismiss a great keyboard for all the wrong reasons.

That being said I know it is not a perfect keyboard, the only minor negative thing I could say about this keyboard would be at first it required an ever so slightly heavier touch than what I am used to (I used mostly laptop keyboards before this). However that quickly went away after a couple days of typing when I got used to the keyboard. Now is it just a great keyboard to type on and after typing many hours on it I feel it is one of the best there is. It might be strange to say, I actually look forward to typing on my keyboard now and I have been writing a lot more now since I bought it.

To balance out the negativity in this thread I have to say the Realforce 87U 55g is a great keyboard and I highly recommend it and you really can't go wrong with getting such an amazing keyboard.
« Last Edit: Sat, 21 June 2014, 19:11:26 by ckar »

Offline rowdy

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 21 June 2014, 18:59:49 »
After reading this thread it amazes me how much variation people can experience using the same keyboard. I recently got the Realforce 87U 55g and it has been an absolute joy to type on. I haven't experienced any of the strange problems you all have been writing about here in this thread. My conclusion would be it really is the user that has the problems and not the keyboard. I am writing this only because I don't want people who are considering getting a Topre keyboard to make a mistake and dismiss a great keyboard for all the wrong reasons.

That being said I know it is not a perfect keyboard, the only minor negative thing I could say about this keyboard would be at first it required an ever so slightly heavier touch than what I am used to (I used mostly laptop keyboards before this). However that quickly went away after a couple days of typing when I got used to the keyboard. Now is it just a great keyboard to type on and after typing many hours on it I feel it is one of the best there is. Although it might be strange to say, I actually look forward to typing on my keyboard now and I have been writing a lot more now since I bought it.

To balance out the negativity in this thread I have to say the Realforce 87U 55g is a great keyboard and I highly recommend it and you really can't go wrong with getting such an amazing keyboard.


What it ultimately comes down to is that different people prefer different keyboards.

Getting both points of view is good, as it helps people decide by raising pros and cons from different perspectives.  Ideally we'd all be able to try a new keyboard before spending money on it, but that rarely happens.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline fuzzybaffy

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 21:28:00 »
I have both a Topre 45-g (not a 55-g, though), and a Cherry MX Brown board. If there is any fatigue associated with the Topre, and I believe fatmav was also talking about this, I think it's the shape of the keycaps - I believe they are different than the typical OEM profile caps you see in most boards. Then again, I don't own a 55-g, so it may be due to the weight of the keyboard and not the shape.

If the fatigue IS due to the shape of the caps, getting used to the keyboard will definitely help with that. I know it took me some time to get adjusted to the Topre keycaps.

Also, I don't know where people think the Topre build quality is subpar. It's definitely better than my Filco with MX Browns.

Offline lightsout714

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 22:22:52 »
I'm curious how you guys that don't like 55g like blacks? Or clears for that matter? I tried some Topres the other day and 55g was my favorite. That was just for a short period though.

That said I'm typing on new clears right now and really enjoying them. But I haven't done anything big on this board yet besides posting on some forums.

Offline aref

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 22:57:13 »
I used to use 55g Topre switches. They are fine for short bursts of typing or intermittent typing. But for all-day typing or extended periods of typing, day after day, they are, for me, difficult to use.
I don't care for lengthy typing sessions on MX Blacks either. Again, for short postings, they're fine. I cannot comment on MX Clear switches, I've never used them. And these days I use MX Reds, it took me a while to adjust to them, and I can type for 11 hours with no hand-related fatigue or strain. But, it's taken weeks to gain an affinity for MX Reds.

Offline lightsout714

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #40 on: Mon, 23 June 2014, 01:06:16 »
I used to use 55g Topre switches. They are fine for short bursts of typing or intermittent typing. But for all-day typing or extended periods of typing, day after day, they are, for me, difficult to use.
I don't care for lengthy typing sessions on MX Blacks either. Again, for short postings, they're fine. I cannot comment on MX Clear switches, I've never used them. And these days I use MX Reds, it took me a while to adjust to them, and I can type for 11 hours with no hand-related fatigue or strain. But, it's taken weeks to gain an affinity for MX Reds.

I liked reds but I am not a finesse typer, nor can I touch type sadly so reds are an error fest for me.

Offline fatmav

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 20:28:14 »
I'm curious how you guys that don't like 55g like blacks? Or clears for that matter? I tried some Topres the other day and 55g was my favorite. That was just for a short period though.

(I won't say I do not like 55g---it's just not a switch that I will want to be locked into for life.)

My experience on Black has been miserable. I can deal with heavier springs. I happily type on a Green some days when I want to train my fingers and I have been able to use a Clear exclusively for two months at work. I am also typing this on a Matias Clicky, which is not exactly light. However, overall, I just don't "get" Black. Linearity shines in Red because it makes the keyboard super smooth (I use Red on a Kinesis ergo). But once that smoothness is accompanied by a heavy spring, it just because "mushy". In contrast, Green and to a certain extent Clear compensate for that heaviness with some fun.

Again, just my personal preference and I notice that I don't play games as much as a colleague who very much don't mind Black (he said it's hard to settle between Red and Black and he's in the process of sourcing some springs in the middle).

Offline rowdy

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 20:56:29 »
I'm curious how you guys that don't like 55g like blacks? Or clears for that matter? I tried some Topres the other day and 55g was my favorite. That was just for a short period though.

(I won't say I do not like 55g---it's just not a switch that I will want to be locked into for life.)

My experience on Black has been miserable. I can deal with heavier springs. I happily type on a Green some days when I want to train my fingers and I have been able to use a Clear exclusively for two months at work. I am also typing this on a Matias Clicky, which is not exactly light. However, overall, I just don't "get" Black. Linearity shines in Red because it makes the keyboard super smooth (I use Red on a Kinesis ergo). But once that smoothness is accompanied by a heavy spring, it just because "mushy". In contrast, Green and to a certain extent Clear compensate for that heaviness with some fun.

Again, just my personal preference and I notice that I don't play games as much as a colleague who very much don't mind Black (he said it's hard to settle between Red and Black and he's in the process of sourcing some springs in the middle).

That might depend on the switches.  I have three keyboards with MX blacks - one is a delight to type on, one is ok, the other one feels gritty.  Strangely that is in decreasing age order i.e. the oldest keyboard feels best.

Maybe that is an indication that MX blacks do need time to wear in.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline fatmav

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #43 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 21:13:44 »
I also read that if I replace the keycaps with heavier (say PBT) caps, then Black would feel lighter. I can buy the physics since the spring has a heavier load on top, but can one really feel that? Any experience?

Offline lightsout714

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 21:50:53 »
I'm curious how you guys that don't like 55g like blacks? Or clears for that matter? I tried some Topres the other day and 55g was my favorite. That was just for a short period though.

(I won't say I do not like 55g---it's just not a switch that I will want to be locked into for life.)

My experience on Black has been miserable. I can deal with heavier springs. I happily type on a Green some days when I want to train my fingers and I have been able to use a Clear exclusively for two months at work. I am also typing this on a Matias Clicky, which is not exactly light. However, overall, I just don't "get" Black. Linearity shines in Red because it makes the keyboard super smooth (I use Red on a Kinesis ergo). But once that smoothness is accompanied by a heavy spring, it just because "mushy". In contrast, Green and to a certain extent Clear compensate for that heaviness with some fun.

Again, just my personal preference and I notice that I don't play games as much as a colleague who very much don't mind Black (he said it's hard to settle between Red and Black and he's in the process of sourcing some springs in the middle).
This was also my first impression of black's when I tried them at the store. They felt closest to domes to me. Recently played with them again and liked them. Don't have a board for longer testing though.

Offline PointyFox

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Re: Realforce 87U [55g weight] for long periods of typing?
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 23:11:24 »
I'm curious how you guys that don't like 55g like blacks? Or clears for that matter? I tried some Topres the other day and 55g was my favorite. That was just for a short period though.

(I won't say I do not like 55g---it's just not a switch that I will want to be locked into for life.)

My experience on Black has been miserable. I can deal with heavier springs. I happily type on a Green some days when I want to train my fingers and I have been able to use a Clear exclusively for two months at work. I am also typing this on a Matias Clicky, which is not exactly light. However, overall, I just don't "get" Black. Linearity shines in Red because it makes the keyboard super smooth (I use Red on a Kinesis ergo). But once that smoothness is accompanied by a heavy spring, it just because "mushy". In contrast, Green and to a certain extent Clear compensate for that heaviness with some fun.

Again, just my personal preference and I notice that I don't play games as much as a colleague who very much don't mind Black (he said it's hard to settle between Red and Black and he's in the process of sourcing some springs in the middle).

That might depend on the switches.  I have three keyboards with MX blacks - one is a delight to type on, one is ok, the other one feels gritty.  Strangely that is in decreasing age order i.e. the oldest keyboard feels best.

Maybe that is an indication that MX blacks do need time to wear in.

They do wear in, however this is NOT the reason why older MX Blacks are very smooth.  They're actually made differently and feel that smooth whether used or not.


I also read that if I replace the keycaps with heavier (say PBT) caps, then Black would feel lighter. I can buy the physics since the spring has a heavier load on top, but can one really feel that? Any experience?

Barely if at all.  The difference should be like 1 gram or less.  Since the springs are like 20gf at the top, the difference would only be like 5% max, probably a lot lower. 
« Last Edit: Tue, 24 June 2014, 23:13:25 by PointyFox »