Author Topic: Group Buy Description and Warning  (Read 7026 times)

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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Group Buy Description and Warning
« on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 10:30:41 »
I think this is something the community could benefit from, so I'll be putting something together to outline what exactly a group buy is, how it works (logistically), and what can go wrong.  We have a constant influx of new members joining buys hoping to get new and cool things, not realizing what they're getting into. 

We have a thread that outlines the rules governing Group Buy threads.  Unfortunately, this doesn't get into the details that I mentioned above.  Since this thread has a different purpose, I will not be amending it to include this information, and will instead create another thread which goes into these details.

This thread is a central discussion point for this topic.  Feel free to post things you'd like to be included in the thread, and I will post my draft here when it is completed.  We can gather input and work to make it simple, understandable, and to the point (while still being effective).

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 10:30:50 »
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 10:30:57 »
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 10:32:22 »
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

To clarify, what I see as a big problem with many group buys is you get someone who is extremely enthusiastic who has access to things the community wants and they desire to help us acquire those things however because the community doesn't know when enough is enough they keep asking and pushing for more and more until things just fall apart because they got too big, too fast.

I'm not a group buy expert by any means, everything I have done was very small in scale BUT I tried to keep everything as simple as possible, this is where I believe many group buy organizers fail, first they don't have a clue what they are getting into to begin with and then they just keep expanding their group buys until they are so big they are crushed beneath the weight of it all.

To the community we need to stop and think who/what/when/where/how we throw our collective money at stuff, yes it is awesome to get things we couldn't get otherwise but let us make sure our expectations are realistic and the risk are understood before signing up for things. If group buy details are not clear question the organizer relentlessly until they either give up or can come up with clear and concise answers.

Trying to be brief, will think on it and try and get more later.
« Last Edit: Fri, 27 February 2015, 10:44:31 by SpAmRaY »

Offline jamster

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 11:16:21 »
From the perspective of a newish member here. Managed to get into an existing long-running group buy, and might enter another soon.

For me, it was really easy to get an idea of what I was getting into. It just required looking at several existing group buys that had lots and lots of pages- read the first page that described the buy, read a couple in the middle and check what the date change was, and read the last several pages to see what had recently been happening.

This wasn't much effort on my part, but it gave me a good feel for what was going on. And also quickly gave me the idea that these things usually (possibly always?) run hugely over the initial time estimate.

The only buy that I read in its entirety was the one that I bought into (Ivan's round... 3 or 4, can't remember). 64 pages at the time and running for over a year, but I only read the whole thing because it was entertaining going over the drama of the hiccups in production and people creaming themselves in anticiapation of the product.

« Last Edit: Fri, 27 February 2015, 11:17:59 by jamster »

Offline spoonypirate

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 11:22:29 »
I'm relatively new (I've lurked for a couple months before even joining, and I find more enjoyment reading than participating), but the stickied post in the group buy section with giant bold "Caveat Emptor" in the post was enough for me to realize that anything I intend to get may take longer than were I to buy something from a store front.

For some perspective, I'm lumped in with the group of members still waiting on a case from Sprit. Do I wish I would've gotten the case by now? Sure. Am I freaking out? No. I emailed him a few months after seeing him saying he was going to ship mine, got no response, and inferred he was slammed with the popularity of the group buy. I bought an aluminum case, slapped my nerd60 in there, and when Sprit catches up, I'll play around with my case options then. This is a hobby, and I'm treating it as such.

Personally, I feel like the existing thread saying caveat emptor is enough. It set my expectations rather low so I'm not going to be terribly disappointed if someone doesn't match a deadline 100% perfectly. Judging by some of the threads where people are blasting the organizers, though, I can see how more clarification might be necessary.

Offline billnye

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 11:23:01 »
I think this will be very helpful for all the new members.

Thanks for all you do big hoff :-*

Offline Jixr

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 11:29:25 »
the more streamlined and limited the options are in the buy, the faster it goes and is usually successful.

Buys where there are lots of options ( sprits GB's for example ) are the ones where things get chaotic and you end up with thousands and thousands of dollars taken from buyers, then have to wait over a year, and still have no contact with sprit and basically are SOL. The most infuriating thing is that he is still allowed to post new GB's and take more money from the community.

But yeah, I don't think anyone here is out to scam people, but I feel like quite a bit with the slower GB's, that all these promises are made for X amount of money, and then when it comes to production, it ends up costing them more money than they expected, and then they find themselves in a hole and either have to front the money themselves, work out finding a different supplier, or altering the promised unit.

I'll say this, I've never had a GB on GH that has run as smooth as promised by the org. Generally if they say it will be delivered in 6 months, I double it and expect it will take a year. I get that real life happens, but orgs. need to be a bit more realistic with their promises, and buyers need to know that delays happen.
In Harrys Tai-ho buy, he's had the final product in hand since Dec, but has not shipped due to stuff he has going on. While I get that life happens, we really need to encourage a productive attitude from the sellers and at the same time, shame orgs that do not make regular updates, or deliver their products in a reasonably timely manor.

And from a new buyers POV, they need to know this is not amazon, and that they are basically giving away money for free to a stranger on the internet and that nothing is guaranteed, they don't have any buyers rights. claims for refund, exchanges, warranties,replacement of damaged/lost goods in shipping, etc. are all at the sole discretion of the org.


I see it on both sides, and unfortunately its a sucky system. GH is smart to basically stay out of it, but complaints are starting to grow,and I'd like to see GH lean towards protecting the buyers as much as they can if they are going to try to get into regulating it a bit.

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 12:55:28 »
The most infuriating thing is that he is still allowed to post new GB's and take more money from the community.

This is not true.  He hasn't started a GB since July 2014 and his previous GB (March 2014) was a success, with a second part that finished up later and was also a success (I proxied orders for the US).  His order form is still up, but AFAIK he is not collecting money (please correct me if I'm wrong).


I do agree with everything else you've said, although I don't agree with "shaming" organizers.  I know that I took a couple weeks to ship the springs, and I felt really bad for taking longer than just a few days (the theoretical minimum), and was thankful that people were supportive.  If people had shamed me that would have just made me feel even worse, and wouldn't have changed the situation.  If people are being lazy that's one thing, but it's rarely ever that simple.

Offline pasph

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 13:04:14 »
A success?
I paid my first invoice on july 2013 and still received nothing
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 13:04:53 »
A success?
I paid my first invoice on july 2013 and still received nothing

You never received your springs?

Offline pasph

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 13:06:27 »
Yes i received springs i'm talking about $860 of other stuff
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Offline pasph

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 13:07:14 »
Do you want a complete list?
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 13:09:33 »
Yes i received springs i'm talking about $860 of other stuff

Well the GB I referenced from March 2014 was the spring GB...which was a success.  I made no reference to his keyboard GBs.  I was responding to someone commenting that he is still allowed to create GBs, which he is not.

Do you want a complete list?

I'm really not sure why you are responding to me in what appears to be an irritated manner.  I'm doing nothing but attempting to help people here... If you take issue with anything I'm doing, please feel free to PM me.

Offline pasph

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 13:15:16 »
I found trying to defend sprit fiasco insulting
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 13:17:13 »

I found trying to defend sprit fiasco insulting

I did nothing of the sort. I provided facts (sprit IS NOT allowed to start more group buys) and gave evidence of the time his last group buy began.

Offline pasph

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 13:18:32 »
Good
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Offline JPG

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 13:28:37 »
As from my experience with Sprit GB (happy I did not buy too much stuff like some others), when I committed to Sprit GB, Paypal still had a relatively small delay for people to ask a chargeback. Considering it's a group buy and that things needs to be made after payment is sent, it was not realist to expect to get the stuff before the end of the chargeback delay.


But since it is now 180 says (half a year!), my opinion is that it could be realist for GB organizers to have the obligation to deliver stuff in the 180 days delay or expect people to chargeback them without remorse.


I understand it could make things harder for GB organizers, yet it would provide a quite simple way for GB participants to have some sort of insurance they will get their stuff when they pay for it or at least be able to get their money back. It would probably force the GB to be either smaller or more structured, I don't know really.


I know that organizing a GB requires tremendous efforts and time, yet there has been many GB failures since I joined GB, enough for me to be really "scarred" to join one from now on.


Anyway, that's my opinion, and I only hope it will get people to think about it and the possible solutions.


The only thing I am sure, is that there's a problem right now with GBs in general. Some are very successful, and some other are complete/partial failures. The evident problem is that the ratio of failures is quite high from my perspective.
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 13:45:24 »
If you're willing to pay higher rates for sorting, shipping, and hiring help, sure, 180 days is reasonable.  If you want to keep prices more affordable, it needs to be longer, especially for the bigger buys.  When I ran my GB, which wasn't the biggest, I barely managed to get it all done in 6 months. 

I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for 6 months, just that it can be a difficult timeline.

Since Sprit is the whipping boy here, at least some people have gotten stuff.  We're still doing better than the GH60.

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 13:51:02 »
But since it is now 180 says (half a year!), my opinion is that it could be realist for GB organizers to have the obligation to deliver stuff in the 180 days delay or expect people to chargeback them without remorse.

I can understand something like this being positive, but it would really screw over someone who ran into legitimate issues (supplier issues that are no fault of the organizer, for example).  If the item has been purchased, the organizer no longer has that money in hand, and chargebacks could ruin them financially. 

That said, it would likely prevent more buys from going south.  However, it just seems too damaging to the organizer and no one would be willing to take that risk on (maybe that's a good thing though).

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 14:03:03 »
As from my experience with Sprit GB (happy I did not buy too much stuff like some others), when I committed to Sprit GB, Paypal still had a relatively small delay for people to ask a chargeback. Considering it's a group buy and that things needs to be made after payment is sent, it was not realist to expect to get the stuff before the end of the chargeback delay.


But since it is now 180 says (half a year!), my opinion is that it could be realist for GB organizers to have the obligation to deliver stuff in the 180 days delay or expect people to chargeback them without remorse.


I understand it could make things harder for GB organizers, yet it would provide a quite simple way for GB participants to have some sort of insurance they will get their stuff when they pay for it or at least be able to get their money back. It would probably force the GB to be either smaller or more structured, I don't know really.


I know that organizing a GB requires tremendous efforts and time, yet there has been many GB failures since I joined GB, enough for me to be really "scarred" to join one from now on.


Anyway, that's my opinion, and I only hope it will get people to think about it and the possible solutions.


The only thing I am sure, is that there's a problem right now with GBs in general. Some are very successful, and some other are complete/partial failures. The evident problem is that the ratio of failures is quite high from my perspective.

There are tons of group buys that have taken or will take more than 180 days to deliver.

I paid >$500 for R5 caps from 7bit over a year ago, originally it was going to be a 'quick' buy but 7bit just can't help himself and according to him SP interrupts production on R5 to do everything else.

Then you have the smallfry 40% buy which is now at almost 9 months with no end in sight, original lead time was 4-6 weeks.

Obviously the [ctrl]alt buys that were delayed, they are doing the best they can but things have taken much longer than anticipated.

Ivan's R3 black PBT buy that ran into issues actually producing what was sold, which he did mention it could take a little longer since it was something new.

Do we even need to mention the GH60?

And I know there are more.

For as many buys as there are that get delayed most all are for different reasons but to expect all buys to conclude in 6 months, probably isn't going to happen.

Edit: I was interrupted so a few have replied since I typed this out but its still relevant.

Offline JPG

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 14:15:50 »
I don't say that the 180 days is a perfect solution, but one that has a lot of potential.


As for cost, I also consider at this point that people should be interested in paying more in order to get their stuff faster and safer.


And I absolutely agree with the fact that it would be sad if an honest group buy organizer gets chargedback if he gets unexpected delays from the supplier, but at the same time many GBs starts all ok then get some "unexpected problems" and then go wrong.


The other thing is that now that paypal extented it's limit to 180 days, whatever GH decides is the best orientation (if an orientation on this matter is decided) and whatever the GB organizer wants, GB participants will be able legally to charge them back if they get close to the 180 days limit and they still don't have their stuff. So whatever is decided on GH, the GB organizers will need to be more aware of this risk. Because after 40 days people can understand that the product is not done and shipped most of the time, but after 180 days, many will decide to charge back in order to protect their money.


In a perfect world, all GBs would end up all good, but it's not a perfect world and some GBs see many thousands of dollars disappear.


Anyway, I would be interested in someone else having a nice solution for this situation.
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Offline Novus

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 15:05:47 »
There's a pretty easy solution.
Just don't GB and buy retail.

Offline Jixr

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 15:28:45 »
Well, I can say for sprit ( and sorry, I don't want to sound like i'm picking on him, but its an issue that I'm personally dealing with as I have money tied up with nothing to show for it, and that the buy is basically the most recent to go bust )

I've been seeing a bit on other forums and things, that people see his GB, and still are giving him money, most of which don't know of all the problems its had, and then the negative look towards GH's GB's grows and turns away people, and then we get more and more shaming of other sellers like we just saw in harrys thread.

Is there any way to require that the GB pages T&C has to be read before users can see or post in the GB threads? that way at least mods can say that they looked at and agreed to the T&C before even accessing the GB page.

Offline GSimon

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 22:40:55 »
Is there a way to enforce some kind of a standard for posting Group Buy updates at least?

Like, a rule where Group Buy leaders must post a progress update at least once a month? Even if there is no progress in that time it would at least give some re-assurance to those participating in the Group Buy that the person running it is still around.

I remember when the GMK CMYK Group Buy stopped updating and a lot of people, myself included, were concerned that the Leader bailed. When people don't update it's just frustrating and leads to unnecessary drama. I used to get all pissy when feng seemed to ignore people in his Group Buys, although at this point I've come to terms that it's just his approach and at least he comes through. Most new buyers won't understand this though.

In short the people running the group buys should be doing a better job at managing expectations. And people who have been here for long enough to know what it's like shouldn't be surprised or offended when new users react to the delays in a negative way and act like they should have known better. Perhaps some users were 'naive' to think a Group Buy wouldn't take longer than a year when the person running it claims it would only be a couple months, but it's wrong to blame the participants for 'not knowing better' because they should somehow understand this is the norm when it's their first buy.

Offline Melvang

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 23:02:34 »
As much as I would like to see a limit on how long a group buy can last, it is simply not feasible.  For a multitude of reasons.

First and foremost, **** happens.  Second, no two group buys are the same.  Three, stuff gets added or things change.

If there was a time limit and something comes up outside of the organizers control, what happens then, and how do you enforce it?  Look at what happened to BunnyLakes personal paypal account when he was collecting money for Toxic.  For those that don't know, here is in a nut shell what happened.  Bunny ran an auction for BroBots but you had to have a paid for Toxic order of at least the alphas to enter the raffle.  When the results were out who won and who didn't, some people that didn't win did a chargeback to cancel their order.  With this bunch of chargebacks, PayPal froze his account including ALL the money he had collected for the buy.  If there was a time limit for group buys and this happened, should he be reprimanded for something outside of his control?

There really is no feasible way for GH to remove all or even most of the risk associated with a group buy.

If anything there should be some sort of requirement similar to the requirement to create a thread in Classifieds.  Why there isn't kind of boggles my mind.  One can't sell personal wares for two months and only after 25 posts to individuals, but one can create an account and on day one create a group buy and potentially take a good portion of the community for thousands of dollars.

I think somewhere around six to nine months worth of membership with 1,000 to 1,500 posts would be a decent place to start.  I also wouldn't be opposed to some sort of skype/facetime/insert video chat of choice interview with a few mods/admins before being able to post group buys. 

Now people with already established vendor sites as a legitimate business, that's a bit different story.  Especially when US based due to having some legal liabilities there.
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Offline Novus

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 03:15:05 »
Don't forget about Ivan and his (I think it was PLUM) fiasco for pbt round 3.

Offline tbc

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 03:26:28 »
does anyone actually have statistics?

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Offline Wilba

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 05:15:47 »
If anything there should be some sort of requirement similar to the requirement to create a thread in Classifieds.  Why there isn't kind of boggles my mind.  One can't sell personal wares for two months and only after 25 posts to individuals, but one can create an account and on day one create a group buy and potentially take a good portion of the community for thousands of dollars.

I think somewhere around six to nine months worth of membership with 1,000 to 1,500 posts would be a decent place to start.  I also wouldn't be opposed to some sort of skype/facetime/insert video chat of choice interview with a few mods/admins before being able to post group buys. 

Duration of forum membership and post count are useless metrics of someone's competence to run a group buy in a timely fashion.

As a newbie to GH, I find that kind of restriction would not work for me. I've designed and produced many DIY electronics kits, both the PCBs, parts and enclosures, and run many group buys, and now I'm planning to do the same for keyboards. I like reading GH and I will contribute in words when I have something to say, but when I don't, I'll be busy actually making stuff and designing/producing things that other members want, not posting random thoughts in every thread to boost some post count.

From an outsider's perspective (which is what I have ATM), six months between receiving payments and shipping goods is ridiculous. I'm genuinely curious how they are running this long... whether it's manufacturing delay, or the person running it has no time to sort and pack goods, or it was poorly planned from the start, leading to changes while it was running. I've seen group buys run by "experienced" group buy runners that are dragging on. Unless the reasons for them "failing" are identified, then they can't be avoided in future.

One idea I had: a mod/admin posts early on in the thread (preferably on the first page) where they can update people about the group buy while it is running (in a way, give people some confidence that there is some oversight happening), and then when it is finished, an independent review of what transpired.

Offline tbc

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 15:06:51 »
Duration of forum membership and post count are useless metrics of someone's competence to run a group buy in a timely fashion.

it's not about skill or competence.  it's about community involvement and building trust.
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Offline pasph

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 16:04:39 »
Duration of forum membership and post count are useless metrics of someone's competence to run a group buy in a timely fashion.

it's not about skill or competence.  it's about community involvement and building trust.

There were reputable members who has been mia or worse
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Offline Wilba

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 18:54:07 »
it's not about skill or competence.  it's about community involvement and building trust.

One's level of involvement in the community and the amount of trust others have in them don't always correlate with their ability to handle the logistics of running a group buy.

Restricting who can run a group buy through some admin veto power isn't going to solve the fundamental problem of them running way longer than they should. Comparing group buys with Kickstarter campaigns just supports the perception that a lot of group buys are being run by people who are incapable of doing them successfully.

If you don't study the past you are doomed to repeat it. If you want group buys to run better in future, identify what went wrong in the past, so the same mistakes can be avoided.





Offline tbc

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 17:39:50 »
it's not about skill or competence.  it's about community involvement and building trust.

One's level of involvement in the community and the amount of trust others have in them don't always correlate with their ability to handle the logistics of running a group buy.

Restricting who can run a group buy through some admin veto power isn't going to solve the fundamental problem of them running way longer than they should. Comparing group buys with Kickstarter campaigns just supports the perception that a lot of group buys are being run by people who are incapable of doing them successfully.

If you don't study the past you are doomed to repeat it. If you want group buys to run better in future, identify what went wrong in the past, so the same mistakes can be avoided.

i don't think it works either.

but the core GH members are very outspokrn about community vs money.



but more on topic....why don't we just implement a max number of orders?  something small for new GBOs and something smart once you're no longer a newbie.
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 17:58:06 »
Is there a way to enforce some kind of a standard for posting Group Buy updates at least?

Like, a rule where Group Buy leaders must post a progress update at least once a month? Even if there is no progress in that time it would at least give some re-assurance to those participating in the Group Buy that the person running it is still around.

This would be really great, but what you're asking us to do is to make someone post on GH...which we do not have the power to do.  If they don't post, then what?

I remember when the GMK CMYK Group Buy stopped updating and a lot of people, myself included, were concerned that the Leader bailed. When people don't update it's just frustrating and leads to unnecessary drama. I used to get all pissy when feng seemed to ignore people in his Group Buys, although at this point I've come to terms that it's just his approach and at least he comes through. Most new buyers won't understand this though.

CMYK was led by Ivan in 2013 and was very successful.  Are you referring to CMYW, started by dubsgalore and abandoned for months?  There is a big difference, and I think clarifying this is important.


If anything there should be some sort of requirement similar to the requirement to create a thread in Classifieds.  Why there isn't kind of boggles my mind.  One can't sell personal wares for two months and only after 25 posts to individuals, but one can create an account and on day one create a group buy and potentially take a good portion of the community for thousands of dollars.

There is not a post count requirement, but GB threads do require approval.  We also have a list of "approved" GB leaders that have led many successful buys before (Ivan, etc.), as well as a list of "banned" GB leaders that are no longer allowed to run GBs.  We do not approve every GB thread that is submitted.  Is this common knowledge, or did this change go unnoticed?  (honest question)

Offline tbc

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 18:12:18 »
There is not a post count requirement, but GB threads do require approval.  We also have a list of "approved" GB leaders that have led many successful buys before (Ivan, etc.), as well as a list of "banned" GB leaders that are no longer allowed to run GBs.  We do not approve every GB thread that is submitted.  Is this common knowledge, or did this change go unnoticed?  (honest question)

i figured as much from related comments. i can't remember seeing an official notice ever though.

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Offline ideus

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 18:23:41 »
Interest checks could be a good place to start the screening of potential GB leaders.

Offline mkawa

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 22 March 2015, 10:04:52 »
from the perspective of someone who has run a few small successful buys and then totally botched a gigantic one, i would very much appreciate it if the community came together to make a comprehensive guide on these. one addition that i think definitely needs to be in a guide is kind of an oral history of long-running or outright bad GBs, what happened to them, and lessons learned.

i very much think it should be the old hands in the community who contribute heavily to this guide, and that it be guidance for people who might want to form a buy as well as those looking to buy in.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 22 March 2015, 14:15:05 »
A step by step guide, including hints on what and when to communicate to the community, would also be a good idea.

That might give prospective GB organisers an idea of how much work there is to do.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline tbc

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 22 March 2015, 14:22:43 »
may i suggest that people include 'major holidays' in the gbo guide?  events such as CNY.
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 March 2015, 20:20:38 by tbc »
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Group Buy Description and Warning
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 22 March 2015, 20:04:44 »
Also what about a step by step guide for GB participants?

How to check whether you should participate in a GB.
Checking whether the pricing timeframe suits your income period.
Submitting an order.
Paying for an order.
Checking the status of your order.
What to do while waiting for order fulfilment (e.g. check the thread daily or weekly).
How to update shipping information.
How to transfer your order to someone else.
What to expect when delivery starts.
Dealing with unforeseen delays.

Most of these questions come up on a regular basis from new and established members who are participating in a group buy.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ