Maybe it would be best to figure out a profile by elimination?
E.g. I think we can scratch Cylindrical sculpted, Cherry profile by GMK already checks all the boxes, it'd be a bold move to compete with them.
Low profile spherical sculpted is being done by evan as you pointed out.
High profile spehrical sculpted exists as SA by SP and Maxkeys. MT3 expanded this to the realm of PBT.
I guess that leaves us with either uniform cylindrical or high profile sculpted cylindrical :P
Filled out the IC. I have faith in you Mike! You always deliver a product I like. I'd just ask that 1800/75% compatibility is there as I use both of those layouts quite a bit.
2 x 3u spacebar for people who want to split space the newer boards that support that instead of the old 2.75u shift style setup.
I'd also encourage you very strongly to be incredibly particular about the legends. JTK doubleshot level is just not going to cut it for me.
Good luck!
Very exciting to see, I am interested!
Really awesome, can't wait for this to become a reality!!! I know how much work and money will have to go into making this, and hope it all works out for you.
As long as it is spherical and sculptured, I will buy a set.
EDIT: I also second the 1800 compatibility.
Interested but we have a lot of ABS right now, I'd prefer some quality PBT
Maybe it would be best to figure out a profile by elimination?
E.g. I think we can scratch Cylindrical sculpted, Cherry profile by GMK already checks all the boxes, it'd be a bold move to compete with them.
Low profile spherical sculpted is being done by evan as you pointed out.
High profile spehrical sculpted exists as SA by SP and Maxkeys. MT3 expanded this to the realm of PBT.
I guess that leaves us with either uniform cylindrical or high profile sculpted cylindrical :P
Good point.
What about medium height sculpted spherical? That's an itch (a niche, hah!) that no one seems to scratch. Glossy smooth!
Yea, I definitely dont want to do an exact clone of something, but I do want to have a profile that agrees with the community. My personal preference is a MX style Topre HiPro. :)
MX style Topre HiPro. :)Now this is something I could get behind.
New Profile Keycap IC
Okay long story short - I have the opportunity to create a new profile and be able to pay for the tooling. So I am seeking the community's input on this set.
Some details
* These keycaps will be made in house by me (not directly by me all the time, but I am working on a couple business partners).
* Yes, I am basically attempting to make a small keycap factory.
* These will be thick doubleshot ABS. PBT doubleshot is too difficult to get right, and dyesub is too restrictive.
* I don't want this set to mimic or even be remotely close to the The Van's new profile - HuB. That is their project and I do not want to step on toes.
Some FAQs
Do you know how much this will cost?!?
* Yes, like I said above, I have the opportunity to get this going.
Do you know how difficult tooling would be to get made?!?
* Yes, I will seek out a mold making company and make sure that we get the tolerances correct
What compatibility are you looking to have?
* I am looking to have a good sized compatibility kit with the exceptions of really obscure - such as colemak, dvorak, and nordic. At least to start off that is.
What is your timeline?
* This is the very early parts of this project. I would like to have a profile picked out within 1-2 months. After the profile is picked I would have these 3D printed in a very high quality and get some feedback. If all goes well, we move on to the tooling. I would love to have some actual samples in 8-10 months time (thats a pretty optimistic timeline).
What is your pricing?
* I dont have this figured out yet. The goal is to have a broad compatibility kit for under $100. That is the goal.
IC Part
Form here - https://goo.gl/forms/eBF3XdRSNz6vifoG2 (https://goo.gl/forms/eBF3XdRSNz6vifoG2)
* Please give me some good feedback. I want this set to be a set that caters to the community. I wont be able to please everyone, but I will take in consideration
* Please also know that I understand what this entails. I have done my research, and know the importance of a good quality keycap.
* This is probably the biggest project that I have taken on for NovelKeys. It is very very important to me.
Yea, I definitely dont want to do an exact clone of something, but I do want to have a profile that agrees with the community. My personal preference is a MX style Topre HiPro. :)
Yea, I definitely dont want to do an exact clone of something, but I do want to have a profile that agrees with the community. My personal preference is a MX style Topre HiPro. :)
Down for that.
Is DSA really lower than cherry? I Always got the impression that cherry was lower, or at least most of the rows. Is it feasible to do a sculpted cylindrical keyset with a lower profile than cherry?
Maybe it would be best to figure out a profile by elimination?
E.g. I think we can scratch Cylindrical sculpted, Cherry profile by GMK already checks all the boxes, it'd be a bold move to compete with them.
Low profile spherical sculpted is being done by evan as you pointed out.
High profile spehrical sculpted exists as SA by SP and Maxkeys. MT3 expanded this to the realm of PBT.
I guess that leaves us with either uniform cylindrical or high profile sculpted cylindrical :P
Good point.
What about medium height sculpted spherical? That's an itch (a niche, hah!) that no one seems to scratch. Glossy smooth!
Regardless of the ultimate profile that is chosen, it would be great if there were convex spacebars for the various split spacebar sizes: 2.75u, 2.25u, 2u, 1.75u, etc.
Regardless of the ultimate profile that is chosen, it would be great if there were convex spacebars for the various split spacebar sizes: 2.75u, 2.25u, 2u, 1.75u, etc.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FGMNSj7.png)
I have been working on this for a bit. It is a superelliptical step sculpture (SSS) profile, ala Microswitch & IBM Beam Spring. It is designed to accomodate triple shot abs legends at 1.6mm uniform thickness. The dish is 1mm deep. It uses a level row 4 which is roughly 7mm in height, and a 6-degree R3 which is slightly lower than cherry. R5 is .05mm higher than cherry. The level row is the lowest that I know of (DSA is 8mm) and can be used to make a uniform set as well. The step between rows is a consistent 15-degrees, which (IMO) is ideal.
I am still in the process of finishing the models. If you are interested in collaborating, I would be open to it.
A mid-height version of Hi-Pro or MT3 would be neat I think. I'm aware there are low/medium sculpted spherical profiles popping around now like HuB and EDRUG, but they don't seem to be as "cuppy" as Hi-Pro or MT3.MT3 is superelliptical and has a dish depth of 1.1mm, as opposed to .7mm for most spherical caps (SA, DSA, clones). Not that you can't make a low profile spherical set just as deep as MT3, but they will never be as cuppy because the sides will still be too low to make contact with anything short of shrek fingers.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/PIzGgPp.png)
Here is a sample render of an R2 1U triple.
EDIT: Just realized the legend is upside down. Oh well, you get the point ;D
A mid-height version of Hi-Pro or MT3 would be neat I think. I'm aware there are low/medium sculpted spherical profiles popping around now like HuB and EDRUG, but they don't seem to be as "cuppy" as Hi-Pro or MT3.MT3 is superelliptical and has a dish depth of 1.1mm, as opposed to .7mm for most spherical caps (SA, DSA, clones). Not that you can't make a low profile spherical set just as deep as MT3, but they will never be as cuppy because the sides will still be too low to make contact with anything short of shrek fingers.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
First IC form is closed.
Results
- mid height
- sculpted
- spherical
- centered large font
- icon mods
- very close between textured and matte finish
- scooped homing
Centered large font, NotLikeThis
First IC form is closed.
Results
- mid height
- sculpted
- spherical
- centered large font
- icon mods
- very close between textured and matte finish
- scooped homing
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FGMNSj7.png)
I have been working on this for a bit. It is a superelliptical step sculpture (SSS) profile, ala Microswitch & IBM Beam Spring. It is designed to accomodate triple shot abs legends at 1.6mm uniform thickness. The dish is 1mm deep. It uses a level row 4 which is roughly 7mm in height, and a 6-degree R3 which is slightly lower than cherry. R5 is .05mm higher than cherry. The level row is the lowest that I know of (DSA is 8mm) and can be used to make a uniform set as well. The step between rows is a consistent 15-degrees, which (IMO) is ideal.
I am still in the process of finishing the models. If you are interested in collaborating, I would be open to it.
With HUB coming, idk if you should really follow these advices.
I don't remember exactly what was in the form, but was the "large area" throwed away?
With HUB coming, idk if you should really follow these advices.
I don't remember exactly what was in the form, but was the "large area" throwed away?
I think HuB and the profile that I am looking at are definitely different enough to coexist. And there are things that I may not do exactly as the community has voted. I’m actually leaning towards text mods vs icon.
I’m not sure what you mean by large area? The form never changed, so I think I got all the answers down.
There wasn't like a question about "large surface area" vs Cherry-like (e.g. small surface)?
There wasn't like a question about "large surface area" vs Cherry-like (e.g. small surface)?
There was not.
Polls are great, but design by committee is usually counterproductive. You have to be a little like Steve Jobs and give the people what they don’t yet know that they want. I guess what I’m saying is that sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions and go with them, because you know what works, even if it goes against popular opinion.
Really looking forward to whatever you come up with!
Polls are great, but design by committee is usually counterproductive. You have to be a little like Steve Jobs and give the people what they don’t yet know that they want. I guess what I’m saying is that sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions and go with them, because you know what works, even if it goes against popular opinion.
Really looking forward to whatever you come up with!
design by vote almost always ends with nobody happy
Polls are great, but design by committee is usually counterproductive. You have to be a little like Steve Jobs and give the people what they don’t yet know that they want. I guess what I’m saying is that sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions and go with them, because you know what works, even if it goes against popular opinion.
Really looking forward to whatever you come up with!
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FGMNSj7.png)
I have been working on this for a bit. It is a superelliptical step sculpture (SSS) profile, ala Microswitch & IBM Beam Spring. It is designed to accomodate triple shot abs legends at 1.6mm uniform thickness. The dish is 1mm deep. It uses a level row 4 which is roughly 7mm in height, and a 6-degree R3 which is slightly lower than cherry. R5 is .05mm higher than cherry. The level row is the lowest that I know of (DSA is 8mm) and can be used to make a uniform set as well. The step between rows is a consistent 15-degrees, which (IMO) is ideal.
I am still in the process of finishing the models. If you are interested in collaborating, I would be open to it.
I like this one, however i would change the last 2 rows, the difference in height (which is present on cherry) doesn't make any sense on current angles of modern keyboards imho.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WippovA.png)
My biggest issue with the poll as it was is that a combination of the most popular aspects isn't necessarily the most popular combination, But, the results as they are seem like a good combination to go with, and I'm definitely interested in it, even though I voted for uniform cylindrical. :)
IMO there does need to be a small difference in height, otherwise it becomes too similar to a uniform profile. Although this is very much a matter of personal preference.That is an astute observation. The step on this profile is in fact consistent (with exception to the first row). All steps are simply justified to the base angle of the board, as opposed to each row being justified according to the difference in angle from the previous row. Thanks for the feedback.
One thing I would change is to make the height difference more consistent between rows. Currently there's a huge step down from R4 to R5, while there's pretty much no step between R0 and R1.
The diagram shows what I mean. Cherry profile does have a reasonably consistent step size between rows.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/OnFz0yg.png)
IMO there does need to be a small difference in height, otherwise it becomes too similar to a uniform profile. Although this is very much a matter of personal preference.That is an astute observation. The step on this profile is in fact consistent (with exception to the first row). All steps are simply justified to the base angle of the board, as opposed to each row being justified according to the difference in angle from the previous row. Thanks for the feedback.
One thing I would change is to make the height difference more consistent between rows. Currently there's a huge step down from R4 to R5, while there's pretty much no step between R0 and R1.
The diagram shows what I mean. Cherry profile does have a reasonably consistent step size between rows.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/OnFz0yg.png)
* I am looking to have a good sized compatibility kit with the exceptions of really obscure - such as colemak, dvorak, and nordic. At least to start off that is.
So my mom was a system's analyst, and she specifically instructed me to learn qwerty because "if you learn another layout, you will look like an idiot when you have to use someone else's terminal". Little did she know...* I am looking to have a good sized compatibility kit with the exceptions of really obscure - such as colemak, dvorak, and nordic. At least to start off that is.
*cries in Colemak
Ah, I hadn't realised it was intentional. MT3 profile has a somewhat similar sculpt, although yours looks better IMO.(https://i.imgur.com/PvXokpb.png)
I think many sculpted profiles are modelled after the keycaps on the Model F/M which have a curved plate and therefore inherently have a consistent step size.
I have no idea if your sculpt is better/worse in terms of ergonomics or typing feel, it just looks a bit off (to me anyway).Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/massdrop-x-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set/AI7B3442_copy_20180221164446.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=crop&w=473&dpr=1)
Ah, I hadn't realised it was intentional. MT3 profile has a somewhat similar sculpt, although yours looks better IMO.
I think many sculpted profiles are modelled after the keycaps on the Model F/M which have a curved plate and therefore inherently have a consistent step size.
I have no idea if your sculpt is better/worse in terms of ergonomics or typing feel, it just looks a bit off (to me anyway).Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/massdrop-x-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set/AI7B3442_copy_20180221164446.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=crop&w=473&dpr=1)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/PvXokpb.png)
Mod row still is intentionally out of step, and function row is a half step, but everything else is dead nuts.
Ah, I hadn't realised it was intentional. MT3 profile has a somewhat similar sculpt, although yours looks better IMO.
I think many sculpted profiles are modelled after the keycaps on the Model F/M which have a curved plate and therefore inherently have a consistent step size.
I have no idea if your sculpt is better/worse in terms of ergonomics or typing feel, it just looks a bit off (to me anyway).Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/massdrop-x-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set/AI7B3442_copy_20180221164446.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=crop&w=473&dpr=1)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/PvXokpb.png)
Mod row still is intentionally out of step, and function row is a half step, but everything else is dead nuts.
Eh, I can spot all sorts of issues lol. Here is another (https://i.imgur.com/e7XiJ7E.png)Ah, I hadn't realised it was intentional. MT3 profile has a somewhat similar sculpt, although yours looks better IMO.
I think many sculpted profiles are modelled after the keycaps on the Model F/M which have a curved plate and therefore inherently have a consistent step size.
I have no idea if your sculpt is better/worse in terms of ergonomics or typing feel, it just looks a bit off (to me anyway).Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/massdrop-x-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set/AI7B3442_copy_20180221164446.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=crop&w=473&dpr=1)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/PvXokpb.png)
Mod row still is intentionally out of step, and function row is a half step, but everything else is dead nuts.
That looks amazing :p
Looks like this will compete with DSS for the most part. I think the (marketplace) success of this will depend on how robust designer support is, how high quality the results are, and how reliable the manufacturing and order fulfillment is. One of the biggest reasons Signature Plastics gets so much of the custom (spherical) keycap business is that they know how to work with designers and their color options are unmatched. The other reason is their vendor relationship with MassDrop, which gets their product onto a lot of keyboards.This is valuable feedback.
From looking at the renders, it seems like there is a row profile that is very nearly flat, which I think is a good idea. This gives designers the option of offering a flat set of bottom-row modifiers.
I love DSS, but it wont be competing unfortunately because it hasn't been produced in 25 years, for what reason I am not sure.
That is great news!I love DSS, but it wont be competing unfortunately because it hasn't been produced in 25 years, for what reason I am not sure.
That is changing:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93584.0
That DSS sculpt looks awful based on the pictures. This project will blow it out of the water, especially with the option for a flat bottom row. I absolutely love that on my MT3 /dev/tty0 set.
That DSS sculpt looks awful based on the pictures. This project will blow it out of the water, especially with the option for a flat bottom row. I absolutely love that on my MT3 /dev/tty0 set.
I think the DSS sculpt looks pretty good. It is quite an aggressive sculpt, so I can see why others mightn't like it.
DSS probably can have a flat bottom row too if the designer chooses. The pictures are 12344, but if 1.25u keys exist in any other profile they can be used instead. I guess we won't know for sure until the first new DSS sets are released :))
This looks like it has a much more gentle sculpt regardless, so it will probably suit some people more than DSS.
Maybe it would be best to figure out a profile by elimination?
E.g. I think we can scratch Cylindrical sculpted, Cherry profile by GMK already checks all the boxes, it'd be a bold move to compete with them.
Low profile spherical sculpted is being done by evan as you pointed out.
High profile spehrical sculpted exists as SA by SP and Maxkeys. MT3 expanded this to the realm of PBT.
I guess that leaves us with either uniform cylindrical or high profile sculpted cylindrical :P
How about reverse-sculpted so it's like you're typing on the surface of a ball? ;)
Is DSA really lower than cherry? I Always got the impression that cherry was lower, or at least most of the rows. Is it feasible to do a sculpted cylindrical keyset with a lower profile than cherry?Cherry's home row keys are lower than DSA. Other keys are higher.
Regardless of the ultimate profile that is chosen, it would be great if there were convex spacebars for the various split spacebar sizes: 2.75u, 2.25u, 2u, 1.75u, etc.Personally I would like the bottom-row modifiers to also be convex, because I tend to press both Alt keys with my thumbs as well.
Some notes for details:Will do.
* Do design struts inside the keycaps at the right height to make them compatible with silencing O-rings and QMX clips. SA and DSA don't have this.
* Make sure that stabilised keys are thinner in the right places to make them compatible with different Costar-style stabilisers. Some original Cherry keycaps have problems on some keyboards. Many later keysets like Leopold's thick Cherry-profile do this right.I don't believe this will be an issue, but I will make sure to test the prototypes with several variants and make the necessary changes if necessary.
* Injection nipple is least visible if on the bottom.Check
* Keycaps that are shiny on the sides (regardless of texture on top) look the most vintage-like. I suppose this might be mostly a cost-issue though.The sides on these will definitely be high gloss. It's actually a lot cheaper than textured.
Personally I would like the bottom-row modifiers to also be convex, because I tend to press both Alt keys with my thumbs as well.This is unlikely, simply for cost issues.
I am also a member of the school of thought that the angle of the ZXCV row should be larger than uniform. (DCS better, Cherry profile worse. Preferably the switches on the ZXCVB row should be angled more, but no Cherry MX keyboard is done that way)Stay tuned for the next revision...
Revision 6 renders: Taller caps (.7mm on average), cherry step height (r2-r5), more aggressive sculpting (14.5 to -12.5 degrees), 13mm touch surface (1.1mm deep), refined dishes... next up is legends.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/DbQzbNB.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/7PhPyLv.png)
in this design r1 is defined as the mod row, r6 being the function row
Looks nice. Will you have an option for flat bottom row?I'm just the designer. As to what will be offered, mgsickler will make the final call. That said, Here are some renders to give you an idea of what it would look like. I will say that this revision has a much more aggressive sculpt than other sets you are probably used to. Because of this, I would think that an inverted r5 (6.5 degrees) would work far better than a r4 (0 degrees) bottom row. I have included a render of that as well for your digestion. Once again, I can't speak to what exactly is going to be offered, just theoretical here.
I will say that this revision has a much more aggressive sculpt than other sets you are probably used to.
For me the biggest issue with angled bottom row is that I don't like angled spacebars. The are uncomfortable on my thumbs when I type.I'm the same way. I learned and use the "proper" form of touch typing, so I hit spacebar with the edge of my right thumb while keeping fingers positioned over the home row. So with an angled bottom row, I'm hitting the sharp edge of the space bar with my thumb every time.
What if the spacebar was contoured in such a way that it essentially lines up with r5 like I rendered but had no rear edge?For me the biggest issue with angled bottom row is that I don't like angled spacebars. The are uncomfortable on my thumbs when I type.I'm the same way. I learned and use the "proper" form of touch typing, so I hit spacebar with the edge of my right thumb while keeping fingers positioned over the home row. So with an angled bottom row, I'm hitting the sharp edge of the space bar with my thumb every time.
[What if the spacebar was contoured in such a way that it essentially lines up with r5 like I rendered but had no rear edge?If the back edge was rounded off enough it might work, I guess, but I'm having trouble imagining exactly what you mean. To visualize the issue, think of the side of the thumb coming straight down onto the space bar, parallel to the plate. If an edge is sticking up, that's going to be an irritation over time.
Flat bottom row will depend on what the tooling costs end up being.
A perfect summation. Bravo.Flat bottom row will depend on what the tooling costs end up being.
You already have a flat row profile. No need for another one (just for the bottom row). Just make sure you offer a flat spacebar and all is good.
It's actually quite a bit more complicated than that. Modifier dishes are (currently) half as deep as r4, and the spacebars are convex (obviously), so we are actually talking about an entirely new profile row.A perfect summation. Bravo.Flat bottom row will depend on what the tooling costs end up being.
You already have a flat row profile. No need for another one (just for the bottom row). Just make sure you offer a flat spacebar and all is good.
I wonder what the name will be for this awesome profile. :)
The internal name is SSS (triple-S), but I have no idea how it will be branded. I kind of like the sound of phonetic names more than codes though.I wonder what the name will be for this awesome profile. :)
How about NVK or NKS for NovelKeys? Or since it's a collab' between Spectre and Mgsickler, maybe SxM (or the other way around). Just some quickfire ideas ;)
The internal name is SSS (triple-S), but I have no idea how it will be branded. I kind of like the sound of phonetic names more than codes though.I wonder what the name will be for this awesome profile. :)
How about NVK or NKS for NovelKeys? Or since it's a collab' between Spectre and Mgsickler, maybe SxM (or the other way around). Just some quickfire ideas ;)
It's actually quite a bit more complicated than that. Modifier dishes are (currently) half as deep as r4, and the spacebars are convex (obviously), so we are actually talking about an entirely new profile row.
I think you might be misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. I had intended that (for comfort reasons) the modifiers have a significantly shallower dish than the other keys. They don't necessarily have to be, but if they were and a flat bottom row was simply derived from r4's existing geometry, you would end up bottom row mods with deep dish and every other mod shallow. Furthermore, legends would have to be cut for both dish profiles, one for each bottom row.It's actually quite a bit more complicated than that. Modifier dishes are (currently) half as deep as r4, and the spacebars are convex (obviously), so we are actually talking about an entirely new profile row.
The convex spacebar vs. concave modifiers issue is not a problem that needs solving, IMO. Sure, it would be super cool if there was a full convex profile, but it is not a necessity. Moreover, any keyset designer who wants to provide a flat bottom row can just use the flat profile you already have. If you want to invest in a different flat profile just for bottom row mods, knock yourself out. I'm just saying it isn't really that necessary and that keyset designers can get by just fine without it.
I wouldn’t mess around with dish depths just for “comfort” sake. Profile angles will have more impact on comfort, I feel, than dish depth. I would prioritize for angle options, even at the expense of trying to “optimize” dishing. I mean, if you find yourself concerned about the comfort of deep dishing, then I would suggest that deep dishing should be avoided all together, except maybe for homing keys. A middle-ground dish depth, somewhere between deep and shallow, should be plenty comfortable enough for all keys.I "mess around" with every potential element. When capital costs are as high as they are for a product like this, it's a matter of due diligence. There is one thing that assures failure more than anything else. That is contempt prior to investigation.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hZbtZWN.png)
The latest revision...
I, personally, and quite satisfied with the forms. Yes, legends still need to be done (in progress) and yes there will be many more keys offered. That said, I have little (to no) say as to what sizes and options will be offered. Cost will dictate much of those decisions and Mike will make that call when the time comes.
I wanted to extend my gratitude to everyone who has provided me with the valuable feedback that was required to get this right and especially Mike for giving me the opportunity to design this profile. This will be the last update I post. Look to Mike for future content and support.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hZbtZWN.png)
The latest revision...
I, personally, am quite satisfied with the forms. Yes, legends still need to be done (in progress) and yes there will be many more keys offered. That said, I have little (to no) say as to what will be produced. Cost will dictate much of those decisions and Mike will make that call when the time comes.
I wanted to extend my gratitude to everyone who has provided me with the valuable feedback that was required to get this right and especially Mike for giving me the opportunity to design this profile. This will be the last update I post. Look to Mike for future content and support.
No, but I'm sure an r2 or r3 up arrow will be the default. I like very little step and a lot of sculpt between my arrow rows. Just a preference thing.
Is the top arrow a mistake?
Also, at the end you are not considering lowering a bit the last row caps inclination, making it more linear with the rest of the profile (slightly)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/IgyOU2O.png)
Looking really nice, I like the design choices/reasoning. Would you be able to post a side view of this compared to some other profiles to help translate it to real life?I will work on this
What font you guys have in mind for now?I like eurostile rounded.
What font you guys have in mind for now?I like eurostile rounded.
Gotham is probably the most neutral looking, and will better match the style of vintage keycap legends (like Space Cadet, Honeywell, etc.). Just something to think about.In the case of space cadet, new plates will need to be made for a majority of the legends anyway, but I hear yah.
Woah! Now that is thinking outside the box. I'm not sure if I like the stepped caps, but it would definitely make this profile truly unique.Thanks, I'm modeling stepped caps, shifts, and iso enter as well. I have no idea what will or will not make the cut, but it's a fun exercise if nothing else
Those stepped keycaps are an interesting way of trying to transition from angled ALT keys to a flat spacebar. Personally I don't think they are necessary. IMO, they don't improve the aesthetics over simply using normal ALT keys with a flat spacebar. The change from angled to flat is going to look funky either way; the stepping just makes it look even stranger (and not necessarily better), in my view.It's not just the stepped alts. The spacebar is actually matched to the profile of the steps, which is substantially different from a standard flat row such as r4. If you were to simply place an r4 spacebar between r1 mods, it would not be aligned with any single face of the other keys.
For what it's worth I like it ...Woah! Now that is thinking outside the box. I'm not sure if I like the stepped caps, but it would definitely make this profile truly unique.Thanks, I'm modeling stepped caps, shifts, and iso enter as well. I have no idea what will or will not make the cut, but it's a fun exercise if nothing elseThose stepped keycaps are an interesting way of trying to transition from angled ALT keys to a flat spacebar. Personally I don't think they are necessary. IMO, they don't improve the aesthetics over simply using normal ALT keys with a flat spacebar. The change from angled to flat is going to look funky either way; the stepping just makes it look even stranger (and not necessarily better), in my view.It's not just the stepped alts. The spacebar is actually matched to the profile of the steps, which is substantially different from a standard flat row such as r4. If you were to simply place an r4 spacebar between r1 mods, it would not be aligned with any single face of the other keys.
Hey, the Alts are the only modifiers I use on the bottom row. Don't mess with them!Just offering some potential options, not replacing anything. As far as convex mods go, if it were only for 1.25 and 1.5u, I wouldn't say they were outside the realm of possibility, but I would think the best way to ensure production is to do a group buy.
And, as I said before, I prefer those to be convex because I press them with my thumbs.
Like the cool and unique ideas, and the effort going into community feedback here :thumb:Thanks for the support. It really means a lot coming from an aficionado such as yourself. I would trade a kidney for your raytheon board.
Will be excited to see what you come up with, definitely a thread I'll be watching.
I wouldn't mind convex mods. It would be reminiscent of the beamspring bottom row, but not quite so low in comparison to the rest of the keys.
Certainly convex mods that match the spacebar in terms of angle and height would be really cool, and it might be sufficient to just start with 1.25u and expand to other sizes later on if they prove popular with designers. It would definitely make this new profile stand apart from the crowd.Ok. As always, I am just a designer, but I will work on getting a couple of convex r1 options modeled.
May i know what plastic injection machine are you going to use?
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Someone had asked for a profile overlay for comparison and I lost my patience trying to make a pretty render so here is a potato one instead ;)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/9K08VGj.png)
SSS is superimposed in blue over the corresponding profile in red. From the top down is SA, MIX, Filco (OEM), and Cherry.
There is also the possibility for low profile sculpted.
so here is a potato one instead ;)
Thanks, I'm modeling stepped caps, shifts, and iso enter as well. I have no idea what will or will not make the cut...
Don't forget the HUB profile that Van Keyboards is working onThere is also the possibility for low profile sculpted.
I suspect that SP's revived DSS profile will be the closest thing we're going to get to a low profile sculptured spherical keycap family. Though it, like this NovelKeys profile, may be closer to medium profile than low profile. Still, it will be substantially lower than SA (which is what Maxkey produces) or MT3 (which is itself a little lower than SA).
yeah, stepped iso enter is a hat tip to bigger-ass enters like you would find on a extel teleprinter. Looks rad. I'm not sure what the pilot set will be, but something like honeywell would be fitting, considering the profile's roots. The caps were designed from the ground up to accomodate triple shot legends, so if there is enough demand, it can be done. Embossed legends wont happen. They collect dirt and there simply isn't a big enough demand to justify the tooling. Thanks for the feedback.Thanks, I'm modeling stepped caps, shifts, and iso enter as well. I have no idea what will or will not make the cut...
Thank you, I would buy a kit with stepped keys, especially with a stepped ISO enter!
Could stepped caps-lock have a stem that is positioned to be compatible with TKL keyboards-one-can-actually-buy (e.g. Filco, Varmilo) as opposed to some mythical "standard" TKL keyboards?
Also, any thoughts on the pilot key-set? I would be interested in RetroBlight or Nuntucket Selectric. Something rare and colourful but not too crazy.
PS: since starting from scratch - any possibility of triple-shots or something weird like embossed rather than level legends?
The caps were designed from the ground up to accomodate triple shot legends, so if there is enough demand, it can be done.:o
That's unfortunate. What features of the profile made it so much more expensive to tool than anticipated?
Do you have a rough sketch on how the new profile will look like?
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I have been a little silent on this, but am still working away.
Here is a picture with some different prototypes.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/k6IwMCN.jpg)
The first row is the latest prototype. The second row is the first. The third is dev tty. The last is topre hipro.
I have a few more tweaks to make the set, but it is coming along really nice. I am hoping to have a tkl keyboard proto by the end of June or so.
I'm finding it hard to tell from the picture, are both prototype rows the same height? the one in the back almost looks taller.
Those Topre Hipro are so juicy. Love me some high profiles.
This is awesome, Can't wait to see what comes of this!!! Now if only we could confirm fitment with alps switches with my sliders... ;)
Lookin’ good. Nice work - I really like people who put ideas into reality. Still buying, so long as it’s in a decent colourway. :)
Thanks for the update. I'm not sure if I like the small, flat row 1. Dev/tty is my only experience with spherical profiles though. Doesn't having them so much shorter than row 2 make them harder to reach with one hand while doing a key combo like ctrl-F6?
That looks sexy af :thumb:
A hi-pro replica is nice, but tbh with the HUB profile KS going south it might be worth taking another look at making a sculpted low profile.
A hi-pro replica is nice, but tbh with the HUB profile KS going south it might be worth taking another look at making a sculpted low profile.
This will actually be shorter than Topre Hipro. More of a mid height style.
I have been a little silent on this, but am still working away.
Here is a picture with some different prototypes.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/k6IwMCN.jpg)
The first row is the latest prototype. The second row is the first. The third is dev tty. The last is topre hipro.
I have a few more tweaks to make the set, but it is coming along really nice. I am hoping to have a tkl keyboard proto by the end of June or so.
... haven't had a chance to finger myself yet.
I am really excited for this. You are doing a great job Mike, love ya!
The gentle and symmetrical row angles of the prototype(s) remind me of SA, which has some minor benefits, but I know the community likes row profiles that are more Cherry/Beamspring-ish. And the roundness of MT3 makes them superior, shape-wise, to any other spherical keycap being made today, so that's something to think about.
I do like the depth of dishing and the smoothness of the gradient from the top ridge to the center of the keycap in the prototype(s). Topre Hi-Pro keycaps have too sharp a ridge crease for my tastes, and MT3 comes dangerously close to that as well, but is a bit better than Hi-Pros in that regard. SA has the gentlest gradient of all, but they aren't dished deeply enough, IMO. In fact, I think that the deep-dish mold for SA should be the standard mold for SA, and they should make their deep dish keys a bit deeper still. That's why I like the dishing in the prototype(s); they seem to strike just the right balance, though I'd like to see what a deep dish prototype would look like as well.
Personally I don't care for the huge drop-off that Topre's Hi-Pro keycaps have, both from the numrow to the F-row, and from the Shift-row to the bottom row. It is neither aesthetically pleasing nor ergonomic. I have a Topre 104UK Hi-Pro and those drop-offs are rather unpleasant, to be frank.
Interesting, found a way to make it made?
This looks fantastic!
This looks really promising! Great work, Mike!
You should sell blank sets to raise funds for all the legend molds ;)
You should sell blank sets to raise funds for all the legend molds ;)
Actually this isn't a bad idea. If you did a polished 3d printed or first test run on molds before fine tuning, for early adopters to test review and validate the profile before the official first run(s), it could go a long way toward disproving the potential naysayers. Funds from these early adopters could be used to fine tune/bootstrap larger production run. Specifically I'm thinking about lessons learned from Hub's first attempt, which a lot of people were unsure of but were backing because of the price and colorways, with the profile shape largely unproven. Also as an example the EDRUG Mix/MDA first run was a cheap low cost way to get the new profile out to users, with higher quality runs following. Just my 2c, but it's a thought worth exploration.
Thanks everyone for some feedback! Here are a couple more pictures.Fantastic work Mike! Having spent WAY too much time modeling my profile, these seem really well sorted. I will be watching for updates.
I will definitely have a keyboard full of keycaps for Keycon.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vtMT6ob.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/janAALg.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/oMqzOmp.jpg)
Fantastic work Mike! Having spent WAY too much time modeling my profile, these seem really well sorted. I will be watching for updates.
Height looks good. By the way how would you describe the level of "cuppiness" compared to SA/tty/hi-pro? Hard to tell from pictures.It’s almost in the between SA and Hipro. Shorter than both of them though.
Looks fantastic Mike! Love the adjustments to the F-row.
That looks really nice. I'm excited to try it.
Looks great! :thumb: I really think I can enjoy this profile. Looking forward to it.
I have been a little silent on this, but am still working away.
Here is a picture with some different prototypes.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/k6IwMCN.jpg)
The first row is the latest prototype. The second row is the first. The third is dev tty. The last is topre hipro.
I have a few more tweaks to make the set, but it is coming along really nice. I am hoping to have a tkl keyboard proto by the end of June or so.
Thanks everyone for some feedback! Here are a couple more pictures.This looks really good. Would be very interested in giving the set a shot and can't wait to see more of what's to come as it progresses from here!
I will definitely have a keyboard full of keycaps for Keycon.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vtMT6ob.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/janAALg.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/oMqzOmp.jpg)
Definitely interested in trying these out. Is there a name for these profiles yet?
The render looks fantastic! Can't wait to see more updates as time goes by. Also, count me interested for the blanks idea too.
New update! I have been typing on the 3D printed profile for a couple days now. I am really enjoying it. Here are a couple pictures. Please note that these are 3D printed, so some of the keycaps dont fit just perfectly.approved :thumb:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LgChKWr.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5ENirBD.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/DDHARJQ.jpg)
Next steps.
I am currently working through what keycaps and legends are needed to have maximum compatibility. Once I get the total number of keys and legends, I will be able to move a little quicker with things. No real ETA, but if everything goes smoothly, I think I should have keycaps within a years time.
New update! I have been typing on the 3D printed profile for a couple days now. I am really enjoying it. Here are a couple pictures. Please note that these are 3D printed, so some of the keycaps dont fit just perfectly.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LgChKWr.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5ENirBD.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/DDHARJQ.jpg)
Next steps.
I am currently working through what keycaps and legends are needed to have maximum compatibility. Once I get the total number of keys and legends, I will be able to move a little quicker with things. No real ETA, but if everything goes smoothly, I think I should have keycaps within a years time.
Looks good!Thank you!
Outstanding progress! :thumb:I appreciate that. Its coming along pretty well. :)
Looks great! Any chance for a r0?
I recently got a 75% ( I think... it's a Drevo Gramr) and I love it except for the num and f-key row height similarity. :)
how aggressive does the scooping feel compared to sp sa? and if any comparison to the scooping on topre hi-pro?
New update! I have been typing on the 3D printed profile for a couple days now. I am really enjoying it. Here are a couple pictures. Please note that these are 3D printed, so some of the keycaps dont fit just perfectly.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LgChKWr.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5ENirBD.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/DDHARJQ.jpg)
Next steps.
I am currently working through what keycaps and legends are needed to have maximum compatibility. Once I get the total number of keys and legends, I will be able to move a little quicker with things. No real ETA, but if everything goes smoothly, I think I should have keycaps within a years time.
What keyboard is that? It looks about the same angle as my Jane.
SA was far too painful to use on my Jane, which gets a little high as it is. This profile looks like it may be much more comfortable.
Oh man does that look nice! Sculpted SA is my fav profile as it stands, but I do not like using it with high angled boards. This looks like it would work great with high angled boards & have that sculpted SA type of feel. Are you bringing a set to Keycon?
R4 is the same mold as R2, just turned upside down – right?
What keyboard is that? It looks about the same angle as my Jane.
SA was far too painful to use on my Jane, which gets a little high as it is. This profile looks like it may be much more comfortable.
Its a Norbatouch! :)
Oh man does that look nice! Sculpted SA is my fav profile as it stands, but I do not like using it with high angled boards. This looks like it would work great with high angled boards & have that sculpted SA type of feel. Are you bringing a set to Keycon?
I will be bringing this to Keycon for sure.
wow i cant wait for this. will there be any unique colour mods or are you just gonna focus on the profile of the keycaps?
also when can we expect this to be out?
R4 is the same mold as R2, just turned upside down – right?
That’s correct.
We are labeling the rows as A, B, C, and D. So a normal layout would be AABCDC. B and D are just mirrored.
I'd like to see some competition in cherry profile. All other profiles, from a commercial standpoint, are a miserable failure. How many SA makers are there? Probably 3.
How many high quality OEM brands are there? None?!
Go with cherry, and after we've been able to make you earn something, feel free to experiment.
Whatever road you'll choose, please give us some ISO!
Cant wait for Novelpro. Fully for this. :thumb:
I'd like to see some competition in cherry profile. All other profiles, from a commercial standpoint, are a miserable failure. How many SA makers are there? Probably 3.
How many high quality OEM brands are there? None?!
Go with cherry, and after we've been able to make you earn something, feel free to experiment.Whatever road you'll choose, please give us some ISO!
I am pretty happy with the way my profile is turning out, and the way it feels to type on it. So I wont be changing that up. As for ISO, I am unsure at this time if it will be included at first. It all depends on the what the total costs are going to be on my end.Cant wait for Novelpro. Fully for this. :thumb:
Thanks!
The fact that you didn't choose the cherry or the OEM profile means that you're not competitive in the pricing and in the quality. It's the same thing that happened with that brand that was offering keycaps in cherry profile. The price was comparable with GMK but the consistency was way lower. Have fun.
I think you would make a lot more money as a business venture if you could invest upfront in doubleshot PBT machining and chemistry. Success would mean knocking GMK and SA off their pedistal, especially if you could get the texture options to enable keyfeel to mimic smooth ABS or the chalkier feel of PBT with the same profile. The Koreans have established that doubleshot PBT can produce colors just as vibrant as ABS. It could be the profile to end all profiles. Otherwise what niche is this profile competeing in? Lower cost spherical? Taking advantage of SA's limited capacity? I think Maxkeys is already cornering that market and you can't compete with the Chinese on price unless you build a complete automation factory to minimize labor costs.
When Spectreiil was involved there was discussion of a convex bottom row. Is that still part of the plan?
https://i.imgur.com/OmH9uMr.png
Not finalized font (pretty close though), but this was exciting to get to see.
Very interesting!
Have you announced what sort of "theme" or vibe you're going with for this keycap set yet?
Very interesting!
Have you announced what sort of "theme" or vibe you're going with for this keycap set yet?
My main inspiration was Topre HiPro mixed with SA. So thats basically what I am aiming for in terms of the profile and legends.
We have been working on the legends, and put together a quick render.
Please note that this is a WIP. Lots will be changed, this is more to get an idea of what the font looks like.
Confirmed changes - Alphas will be smaller. Anyways, just trying to keep everyone updated on this. It is still moving forward. :)
Again, this is is really just to get an idea of the font that we are using.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Ted6p9O.png)
Yeah, I mean if the alphas look as big and derpy as that it's a no-buy from me. But the font itself is fine. Not in love with the "J" but everything else seems okay.
These will be dye sub (at least the first round), right? Can you offer an alternative legend color – for example, black – to broaden the audience? I personally want to test out your new profile, but wouldn't use the current legend color long-term. But a grey & black color scheme at work would be perfect.
Anyway, great work!
Diubleshot ABS, right?
Diubleshot ABS, right?
Most likely. With talking to the injection molding places, they all say that ABS would be the best way to go.
These will be dye sub (at least the first round), right? Can you offer an alternative legend color – for example, black – to broaden the audience? I personally want to test out your new profile, but wouldn't use the current legend color long-term. But a grey & black color scheme at work would be perfect.
Anyway, great work!
Not dyesub - doubleshot. The render wasnt a colorway, it was just to show off the font.
First colorway will be a neutral set.
Definitely still in the works. :)
Hope to have some more news in April-May.
Any chance this new profile could also incorporate a TMX stem for both Cherry and Topre?
I'm so sad we won't get Colevrak kits for this T_T
Looking great, I'll note my 1.25u left shift request here for anyone else as well who wants this niche key in the future.Agreed, if ISO enter won't be a thing then at least do the split left shift, that one extra key is way more important for all the European layouts.
Oof those renders look great. No Planck support tho :(
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What colors will be available? (please not the showed colors in the render).
Anyway i would actually prefer arrows instead of "down, left..."
Excited about this.
How well does POM take colors compared to ABS and PBT?
What colors will be available? (please not the showed colors in the render).
Anyway i would actually prefer arrows instead of "down, left..."
Colors are still a ways away from being decided, but the first colorway will be more soft than loud.
We are just going to use text based for all keycaps, and not use any type of icons right now.
How does POM wear over the long haul? ABS type shininess or...?
Excited about this.
How well does POM take colors compared to ABS and PBT?
Im not 100% sure, but I think some Gateron Stems, maybe all Cherry-MX stems, are made of a type of POM.
So If you think about all the nice a vibrant, as well as muted, colors we have in our switches, I would say POM takes color very well.
That is, to say, if my previous statement is correct. :)
Oof those renders look great. No Planck support tho :(
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Been talking to Cole from Woodkeys. We are going to add a C row "Up" and 2 C Row blanks to the kit.
Full Kit Suggestions.
* We know there are some keys missing. With that said I think we can add up to 5 keycaps to try to help out with compatibility.
* I have already been asked to a 1.25 key to the home row.
* ISO support is not planned at this time, but possibly down the future.
* I have also been asked to change C row Control to maybe function. Please let me know what you all think.
* We are also aiming to do this in doubleshot POM. My manu says that this shouldnt be an issue for them.
Nice! That'll help fill out a Planck a bit more.
Do you think a complete Planck kit will be offered in the future (including C raise/lower, D enter/shift, C esc, B tab, 2u space, etc)?
Really looking forward to trying these out, great work!
My only suggestion for this project, since it is double-shot and will have to be engraved with no changes to be made to the mold, is to improve the font consistency over what signature plastics is doing. For the modifier keys, the font size, kerning, tracking, and horizontal scaling (condensed vs. extended font appearance) should be consistent over the entire keyset. If you look at SP's modifiers, they are all over the map in terms of font size, scaling, tracking, etc. When new keys are added, which needs a new mold, the weight of the font changes. None of this is really acceptable, but as hobbyists we live with it because there is no other option.
So my suggestion is to force the manu to adhere to consistency in the area of typography. If a larger text will not fit on a keycap, then it is better to reduce font size than to "squish" the font horizontal scaling or to radically change the tracking. In some cases abbreviation is better than changing the consistency of the sizing. All of the modifiers should have the same font size and properties unless there is a good reason why it needs to be changed, like single character modifiers which can be enlarged to maintain the same "visual weight" as the other key designs.
I can post pics if needed but all one has to do is look at the difference between renderings of SP SA keysets, and the actual keyset. The renders always look better because the designer can maintain font consistency.
Good luck with the project, wish you the best of luck.
I'd like to have a Function key in the C row to replace Caps Lock, but I wouldn't do that by removing Control. Right now you have centered and staggered versions of both "CAPS LOCK" and "CTRL". I'd keep both centered and staggered "CAPS LOCK", and have the alternatives be centered "CONTROL" and "FUNCTION" (so lose the staggered ctrl, change the centered ctrl's legend to not be abbreviated, since it no longer needs to match the truncated one on the staggered key, and add a centered function). Then you have all three legends available, and still have a staggered cap for boards that need it.
This is looking really good. Curious about POM. Why choose that, and what would one expect from it vs. ABS or PBT?
1.25u row D for those 40% users. Looks like it's pretty much got the right sizes on other rows.
SHIF T.1.25u row D for those 40% users. Looks like it's pretty much got the right sizes on other rows.
:) What should the legend say for the 1.25 key? Seems like its doable.
Is that a 7.5u spacebar in the initial kit? If we're looking to trim some fat to free up space for less common layouts, my vote would be to boot that first. What board even uses that long of a spacebar?
Is that a 7.5u spacebar in the initial kit? If we're looking to trim some fat to free up space for less common layouts, my vote would be to boot that first. What board even uses that long of a spacebar?
On the bottom it’s 6.5, 7, 6.
6.5 for compatibility for Razer.
Nice! That'll help fill out a Planck a bit more.
Do you think a complete Planck kit will be offered in the future (including C raise/lower, D enter/shift, C esc, B tab, 2u space, etc)?
Really looking forward to trying these out, great work!
I need to figure out exactly how many keys need to be added for Ortho support. I think it could be a worth while kit add on, especially when I look at DSA Milkshake Ortho kits sold.
Give me some time to figure out how many keycaps are needed for Ortho.
Is that a 7.5u spacebar in the initial kit? If we're looking to trim some fat to free up space for less common layouts, my vote would be to boot that first. What board even uses that long of a spacebar?
On the bottom it’s 6.5, 7, 6.
6.5 for compatibility for Razer.
Ah okay thanks. Do you think Razer owners will be a big enough demographic for the new profile to justify the 6.5u key on it's own?
how would this compare to MT3 ?
is the surface area of the tops smaller or larger compared to SA and MT3 ?
I'm gonna be blunt, I'm not really digging the fact that it's less cuppy than even SA profile now. I'm too lazy to dig through the thread but I feel like at some point there was the idea of making the cups Topre Hipro-esque, which I think would be the way to go.
I'm gonna be blunt, I'm not really digging the fact that it's less cuppy than even SA profile now. I'm too lazy to dig through the thread but I feel like at some point there was the idea of making the cups Topre Hipro-esque, which I think would be the way to go.
My only suggestion for this project, since it is double-shot and will have to be engraved with no changes to be made to the mold, is to improve the font consistency over what signature plastics is doing. For the modifier keys, the font size, kerning, tracking, and horizontal scaling (condensed vs. extended font appearance) should be consistent over the entire keyset. If you look at SP's modifiers, they are all over the map in terms of font size, scaling, tracking, etc. When new keys are added, which needs a new mold, the weight of the font changes. None of this is really acceptable, but as hobbyists we live with it because there is no other option.
So my suggestion is to force the manu to adhere to consistency in the area of typography. If a larger text will not fit on a keycap, then it is better to reduce font size than to "squish" the font horizontal scaling or to radically change the tracking. In some cases abbreviation is better than changing the consistency of the sizing. All of the modifiers should have the same font size and properties unless there is a good reason why it needs to be changed, like single character modifiers which can be enlarged to maintain the same "visual weight" as the other key designs.
I can post pics if needed but all one has to do is look at the difference between renderings of SP SA keysets, and the actual keyset. The renders always look better because the designer can maintain font consistency.
Good luck with the project, wish you the best of luck.
Thats definitely the goal!
Okay, here is our proposed final kit. There are a lot of changes, and we have coverage for almost all boards.
Ortho, 40's should be covered for the most part. If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/17e8oPj.png)
Okay, here is our proposed final kit. There are a lot of changes, and we have coverage for almost all boards.
Ortho, 40's should be covered for the most part. If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/17e8oPj.png)
Are you still taking input on the coloway? I'd personally be elated to have a Honeywell option.
If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.
I supposed ergodox support would be out of scope at this moment, huh.
Ah okay thanks. Do you think Razer owners will be a big enough demographic for the new profile to justify the 6.5u key on it's own?Hold on a minute. Razer BlackWidow and Huntsman have 6u space bars. They are not 6.5u.
If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.When the Space Bar is 6u then there are two 1u modifier keys in-between right Alt and right Control.
Hold on a minute. Razer BlackWidow and Huntsman have 6u space bars. They are not 6.5u.
There are however several other gaming brands that do use 6.5u space bars. For instance, Corsair.
Razer BlackWidow and other modern keyboards have a centred stem.
Some older Cherry keyboards in the G80 series have an off-centred stem (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Space_bar_dimensions#6_units_.28114mm_wide.2C_3_keymounts.2C_57mm_and_38mm_apart.29) however. It should be possible to support both: The Cherry-compatible key stem will clear the centred switch on the BlackWidow.
Some (if not all) Razer keyboards with 6u do have the stabiliser stems farther apart than others though. I am not sure about the Huntsman's measurements, but I know that at least older Razer BlackWidow do have stabiliser stems wider apart but they do use Costar-style stabilisers, so it might not matter that much.
While Razer BlackWidow is a very popular keyboard, I think that is primarily because of availability: as it has been widely available in retail, and an entry into mechanical keyboards for many people. Once they are in, they may want to buy a better one. Putting high-quality keycaps on a Razer keyboard (with wide stabilisers) would be like putting lipstick on a pig IMHO.If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.When the Space Bar is 6u then there are two 1u modifier keys in-between right Alt and right Control.
These are often Windows+Menu, Windows+Fn, Fn+Menu or Windows+Compose.
As far as the 1u keycaps, we have a good amount of 1u row c keycaps that will work for the space. It may not be the exact text, but it will be compatible with the sizing.If you're not taking any more input, then why the hell do you ask!?
As far as the 1u keycaps, we have a good amount of 1u row c keycaps that will work for the space. It may not be the exact text, but it will be compatible with the sizing.If you're not taking any more input, then why the hell do you ask!?
Okay, here is our proposed final kit. There are a lot of changes, and we have coverage for almost all boards.
Ortho, 40's should be covered for the most part. If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/17e8oPj.png)
How thick are the caps planned to be? It would be nice to have more sets as thick as SA, or even more so, similar to Devlins. While that would increase the material price, thick caps tend to produce a much deeper thock.
Latest updateExciting!!!!
We have currently placed an order with our manu for a small test run of two keycaps. We are getting the "A" and "Caps Lock" keycaps made up to make sure the quality is what we want.
Latest update
We have currently placed an order with our manu for a small test run of two keycaps. We are getting the "A" and "Caps Lock" keycaps made up to make sure the quality is what we want.
Latest update
We have currently placed an order with our manu for a small test run of two keycaps. We are getting the "A" and "Caps Lock" keycaps made up to make sure the quality is what we want.
hmm... why didn't you have a space bar or enter key produced to check for warping? I hope all goes well with the test run. Always happy to see more options available for our hobby :)
looking good !
Would appreciate shots that show the thickness of the caps when the samples arrive !
Nice! That'll help fill out a Planck a bit more.
Do you think a complete Planck kit will be offered in the future (including C raise/lower, D enter/shift, C esc, B tab, 2u space, etc)?
Really looking forward to trying these out, great work!
I need to figure out exactly how many keys need to be added for Ortho support. I think it could be a worth while kit add on, especially when I look at DSA Milkshake Ortho kits sold.
EDIT: Just saw the updated kit design, looks amazing!!! I will buy in for sure, regardless of colorway. The profile looks really neat and I am interested in seeing what POM feels like in a keyset (maybe paired with Cream switches and a POM plate...)
Give me some time to figure out how many keycaps are needed for Ortho.
From the side the profile looks a bit wonky 😖
This set looks amazing and I can’t wait to get my hands on it. Really really looking forward to some POM caps! Great job!
wait, where did you see POM?
Great news! Super excited to see photos when that's done!wait, where did you see POM?
It will be doubleshot POM. :)
Update, manufacturer has confirmed the tooling design and just received the molds to start cutting into.
ISOShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/n0kAqK9.png)
Any updates on this project?
Oh my dear God... Are you still working on this? The cream keys with dark prints are the prettiest topre keys I've ever seen and exactly what I was looking for: super sleek, minimal and typewriter-like, with a gorgeous font.
Could you please drop us a line on whether this has any chance of coming out?
Thx
Oh my dear God... Are you still working on this? The cream keys with dark prints are the prettiest topre keys I've ever seen and exactly what I was looking for: super sleek, minimal and typewriter-like, with a gorgeous font.
Could you please drop us a line on whether this has any chance of coming out?
Thx
Sorry for the lack of updates here. After our first manufacturer (here in the USA) burned us pretty bad, we have put this on the back burner. It is NOT dead, but we have delayed it to work on some other projects as of now.
Oh my dear God... Are you still working on this? The cream keys with dark prints are the prettiest topre keys I've ever seen and exactly what I was looking for: super sleek, minimal and typewriter-like, with a gorgeous font.
Could you please drop us a line on whether this has any chance of coming out?
Thx
Sorry for the lack of updates here. After our first manufacturer (here in the USA) burned us pretty bad, we have put this on the back burner. It is NOT dead, but we have delayed it to work on some other projects as of now.
Will be watching from here on out with how this turns out! Liking the profile so far :)
I have been a little silent on this, but am still working away.
Here is a picture with some different prototypes.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/k6IwMCN.jpg)
The first row is the latest prototype. The second row is the first. The third is dev tty. The last is topre hipro.
I have a few more tweaks to make the set, but it is coming along really nice. I am hoping to have a tkl keyboard proto by the end of June or so.
Pardon for confusion, the keys I'm referring to are here; third row, off-white cream with dark legends.This is MT3 profile, DEV/TTY set, not Topre.
Pardon for confusion, the keys I'm referring to are here; third row, off-white cream with dark legends.This is MT3 profile, DEV/TTY set, not Topre.
My personal wish is something similar to mt3/hipro, but with the quality and smooth texture of abs doubleshot SP SA. Perhaps a slight bit lower than those mentioned profiles.
I hope the OP can read this. Please please consider this. This is the reason why Cherry profile feels so much comfortable to type on and rarely make us mis-typing. Cherry profile had serious ergonomic study by engineers, so again, please consider this idea. Or this would be another shortended SA profile without decent research of ergonomic, 1 example is OSA.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FGMNSj7.png)
I have been working on this for a bit. It is a superelliptical step sculpture (SSS) profile, ala Microswitch & IBM Beam Spring. It is designed to accomodate triple shot abs legends at 1.6mm uniform thickness. The dish is 1mm deep. It uses a level row 4 which is roughly 7mm in height, and a 6-degree R3 which is slightly lower than cherry. R5 is .05mm higher than cherry. The level row is the lowest that I know of (DSA is 8mm) and can be used to make a uniform set as well. The step between rows is a consistent 15-degrees, which (IMO) is ideal.
I am still in the process of finishing the models. If you are interested in collaborating, I would be open to it.
I like this one, however i would change the last 2 rows, the difference in height (which is present on cherry) doesn't make any sense on current angles of modern keyboards imho.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WippovA.png)
IMO there does need to be a small difference in height, otherwise it becomes too similar to a uniform profile. Although this is very much a matter of personal preference.
One thing I would change is to make the height difference more consistent between rows. Currently there's a huge step down from R4 to R5, while there's pretty much no step between R0 and R1.
The diagram shows what I mean. Cherry profile does have a reasonably consistent step size between rows.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/OnFz0yg.png)
Pardon for confusion, the keys I'm referring to are here; third row, off-white cream with dark legends.This is MT3 profile, DEV/TTY set, not Topre.
I see. Pardon the ignorance, perhaps I can learn something from this.
So an MT3 is a type of mount/stem as far as I understand and so won't fit a HHKB topre stem.
What does the DEV/TTY set stand for?
thanks for clarifying.
Oh my dear God... Are you still working on this? The cream keys with dark prints are the prettiest topre keys I've ever seen and exactly what I was looking for: super sleek, minimal and typewriter-like, with a gorgeous font.
Could you please drop us a line on whether this has any chance of coming out?
Thx
Sorry for the lack of updates here. After our first manufacturer (here in the USA) burned us pretty bad, we have put this on the back burner. It is NOT dead, but we have delayed it to work on some other projects as of now.