[GH design] Aluminum + Acrylic Filco TKL case

[oneproduct]

The premise

Hi everyone. Some people may remember that I designed and had some hand-made aluminum poker/pure cases built at a metal working shop near me. For those who haven't seen/heard of this, here's a little video to show the end product that was made:

I'd like to do something with that same shop again but this time for a Filco TKL case, but I'd like some help with design decisions.

The concept

The basic idea that I have is to do something similar to litster's design where he had several layers of acrylic stacked together like an ice cream sandwich (I'll have to contact him to make sure he's okay with it, otherwise we can come up with something a bit different). The main difference would be that the top and bottom layers would be aluminum and only the middle piece would be acrylic.

This is neat because it should have the cool metal look and touch on the surface, but also be very affordable, as there isn't any expensive CNC to be done and by using acrylic as the middle piece, you cut down on the material cost of aluminum.

Here's a little picture of what I'm thinking:



Screws would then connect the three layers together and would recede into the case so the surface remains smooth.

Things to do

Some things I would like some help with: (might add more later)
1. What is the exact space taken by a 1 unit key, and what is the amount of space between keys? Alternatively, if you already know the exact size of each of the key clusters that would be great too. In general, just getting the dimensions of everything right.
2. What special considerations need to be done for the bottom of the PCB? (fins, etc)

Aesthetics

1. I can have the cases anodized at the place near me again as well, though last time they didn't stick to their deadlines very well. I would only do brushing this time, as polished finishes weren't as great. The colors available are red, blue, gold and silver, but there's a minimum quantity that must be met for each color that we use.
2. What type of corners? Perfectly square vs slightly rounded (Filco style) vs very rounded (Leopold style).
3. What thickness of aluminum to use? I was thinking on the thin side, like 1/16". This would keep the cost down and it would still look and feel the same on the surface. More thickness would just be for the "I like it heavy" crowd, but would make things more expensive.

---

Anyways, let me know what you think or if you can help. I'm serious about getting these done at an affordable price! While people have done acrylic cases and aluminum cases already, they were always either limited in quantity or too expensive for most people. I would be able to make any amount of these.

Also, unlike the poker cases I had made before, these would be mostly machine made due to the type of work involved, so they should be more 'machine-perfect'.

[litster]

Ha, I found you first!  The answer is NO!

Just kidding :-)  Would love to help. 

[oneproduct]

That would be great, particularly since you must already have accurate dimensions.

Even more useful though would be your experience dealing with the troublesome bottom side.

Edit: typo

[Cindori]

fap fap fap

I love this idea. But it's gonna require high build quality and precise measurements to not look crappy, since it's separate pieces.

[DarkShot]

Unfortunately I can't help you with your spacing issue, but a couple questions about the acrylic fill:

First, were you going to be cutting it from single pieces and stacking it up? If not, how were you going to me making it?

Second, what colours were you looking to do?

And here's hoping you can get the assistance you need, it looks promising as the full aluminum keyboard case, while desirable is stupid expensive.

[damorgue]

I have made a couple of designs like this. I don't want to be too discouraging, but I stopped making that type because the thick middle part gets rather expensive if you want it in one piece If you use 4 separate sides, the mating surfaces will show at the edges. If you cut them at 45 degrees, you will still get a joint line at the edges. I wanted rounded corners, but I suppose those joints will not be visible if you make the corners sharp.

[oneproduct]

Unfortunately I can't help you with your spacing issue, but a couple questions about the acrylic fill:

First, were you going to be cutting it from single pieces and stacking it up? If not, how were you going to me making it?

Second, what colours were you looking to do?

And here's hoping you can get the assistance you need, it looks promising as the full aluminum keyboard case, while desirable is stupid expensive.

It would indeed be stacked up from single pieces. I'll have to check what thicknesses of acrylic I can get my hands on. I know that the local hardware store near me has some, but the selection is probably not that vast, and they only have clear acrylic. I'll be taking a peek there tomorrow.

If I do start getting these made in large quantities I'll have to find a better supplier for it and then see what thicknesses they have to determine how many layers of acrylic would be needed and what colors are available. Litster managed to get a fine selection of colors, so if I can't find anywhere close to me, I could always order some from wherever he got it in the US.

[oneproduct]

I have made a couple of designs like this. I don't want to be too discouraging, but I stopped making that type because the thick middle part gets rather expensive if you want it in one piece If you use 4 separate sides, the mating surfaces will show at the edges. If you cut them at 45 degrees, you will still get a joint line at the edges. I wanted rounded corners, but I suppose those joints will not be visible if you make the corners sharp.

I had thought of that, as it would obviously be much less expensive as you could make many layers from just a few sheets of acrylic. I'll have to see what things cost, I haven't really looked yet. I personally wouldn't be too bothered about being able to see where the pieces mate, particularly since as the user you'd only see and touch the top surface of the keyboard, but I know that everyone here is all hung up on looks.

[emptythecache]

I'm in a **** to buy probably two. I think natural aluminum color with mostly/full opaque black acrylic would look really really good. Slightly rounded corners on the sides, but flat as possible across the top would be ideal IMO. Maybe just the top part the corners a tiny bit so the edges aren't sharp.

This probably adds complexity and difficulty quite a bit, but it would be cool of the screws came up through the bottom and seated into the top panel (so you wouldn't see the screws at all with it sitting on your desk)

And yes, every opinion I have in regards to this is based on the cheat.

[damorgue]

The cheat looks very nice, I and I have always wanted pics of how it was made inside and details etc.

[Halverson]

Would the design also fit CM storms? Or would it not work to make it accommodate both boards?

[oneproduct]

I think that I heard that CM storms have an extra controller on the bottom? I'm not sure how different they are.

[jcrouse]

If you are planning on 1/16 aluminum for the top and the bottom where will be no place to put the threads for your screws, especially if you don't want to be able to see the screws from the top, meaning the tapped hole can't be a threw hole.

Also, you are saying acrylic to eliminate CNC costs (I think). How do you plan on cutting the area out for the keys?

I'm confused (as usual).

John

[oneproduct]

I was thinking to use acrylic to cut out the cost of aluminum, but it may not be much cheaper at all, I'll have to check.

I might be able to go in this Monday and try to get an estimate based on some things that litster has shown me. In his designs, the top is 1/8", so perhaps that would be sufficient to countersink screws.

[jcrouse]

In his designs, the top is 1/8", so perhaps that would be sufficient to countersink screws.

How about where the screws thread into?

[alaricljs]

Most flat-head screws require a minimum of 1/8" for the countersink... you might want to go a bit thicker to avoid issues with tolerances.

[oneproduct]

I'm talking with litster and he suggested I make the top layer thicker for other reasons as well. He recommended 1/4" so I'll go ahead and try that when I ask for an estimate and if then, if the estimate is reasonable, when I get a prototype built.

[The_Beast]

If you are planning on 1/16 aluminum for the top and the bottom where will be no place to put the threads for your screws, especially if you don't want to be able to see the screws from the top, meaning the tapped hole can't be a threw hole.

Also, you are saying acrylic to eliminate CNC costs (I think). How do you plan on cutting the area out for the keys?

I'm confused (as usual).

John

Could use a laser or water cutting

I recently got a quote for a standard TKL sized plate (for plate mounting switches), cut with +/- .002" tolerance, 1/16" material for $25 per plate for one plate (more plates = cheaper). So top plate, with cut outs for all the key caps, I think, would be pretty cheap since it's a much less complex design and doesn't need such tight tolerances.

[dorkvader]

I think that I heard that CM storms have an extra controller on the bottom? I'm not sure how different they are.

No, The CMstorm controller is in the same location as filco. It's the TT meka G1/WASDkeyboard that has it on the bottom. IT does, however, have a USB-inlet board on the bottom. This could be relocated, though.

The main difference is one of the standoffs is moved to make way for the USB subboard. You can modify your design to accomodate both pretty easily:

The Acrylic "ring" will have to account for the smaller USB cable (And detachable cable at that) This could be as simple as making the hole smaller (and the cable not really removable), or as complicated as getting a mini USB jack mounted in there.

The bottom plate would have to have a second hole for the Cmstorm standoff. You can have two types of plates made, or just add an extra hole and let the users pick where to put the standoff for firco/CMstorm use.

Ofcourse if you're just sandwiching the case in over he keyboard plate, this talk of standoffs becomes moot, and the only change is to put the USB sub board of the CMstorm somewhere (or offer a fixed filco cable). Myself, I don't mind if the cable is fixed: You could just tape the sub board under there somewhere, and have some strain relief on the cable, like a good S-bend in the acrylic where it exits.

I have horrible cellphone pictures documenting the CMstorm that I can report (so you can compare to filco pictures) or I can take more: Whatever you need.

[alaricljs]

The standoff near the A/Z/LShift is moved as well.

[metalliqaz]

Looks cool man.

[SmallFry]

I like this, would be nice if it would be able to support a Leo as well, but just me.

[DarkShot]

Unfortunately I can't help you with your spacing issue, but a couple questions about the acrylic fill:

First, were you going to be cutting it from single pieces and stacking it up? If not, how were you going to me making it?

Second, what colours were you looking to do?

And here's hoping you can get the assistance you need, it looks promising as the full aluminum keyboard case, while desirable is stupid expensive.

It would indeed be stacked up from single pieces. I'll have to check what thicknesses of acrylic I can get my hands on. I know that the local hardware store near me has some, but the selection is probably not that vast, and they only have clear acrylic. I'll be taking a peek there tomorrow.

If I do start getting these made in large quantities I'll have to find a better supplier for it and then see what thicknesses they have to determine how many layers of acrylic would be needed and what colors are available. Litster managed to get a fine selection of colors, so if I can't find anywhere close to me, I could always order some from wherever he got it in the US.

Makes sense.

If it comes down to doing larger volumes, it might be better to see if you can get a manufacturer to use thicker pieces and machine them all out, or see if you could get the walls cut with individual pieces of about 1/8" - 1/4" thickness, with the open faces of the acrylic as the walls and glue the corners together. Less pieces to work with this way, and if you use 1 or two colours max, it'd be both cheaper and more efficient in the long run for either choice.

Just some thought on my behalf.

[WhiteFireDragon]

I would love the idea to make a "generic" metal case that will fit all TKL models (filco, CM quickfire, leopold, etc).

[oneproduct]

I would love the idea to make a "generic" metal case that will fit all TKL models (filco, CM quickfire, leopold, etc).

Well I'd certainly be up for trying, but someone would have to provide me with specific dimensions for the CM and Leopold. At this point I'm just going to start with some price checking to see if its worth doing this and if it is I'll start working on measurements.

[Appeac]

I am very interested in seeing where this is going! Acrylic cases are always sexy.

[harrison]

I like the idea of mixed materials alot.  This should go a long way to keeping the machining and material costs down, and customization options far more open for people that want winkey or winkeyless, or opening up the 6 keys between the nav and home clusters.  definitely be keeping my eye on this as it starts to shape up.

[oneproduct]

I went to go visit the metal working shop today and showed the idea to the owner. I asked him for an estimate to make the whole thing out of aluminum, and then if that's too much, I'll look into mixing with acrylic more. For people interested in getting this to fit things other than a Filco, if you can supply me with measurements I can see what I can do. I'm sort of curious to see if I can have it work with a Realforce 87U as well. Though not quite the same size, the process would be the same, so it wouldn't be a problem to have two slightly different versions, as they would both count towards the same kind of "group buy" quantities.

[jeroplane]

This sounds like an amazing idea... The aluminium Pokers always look sexy, can't wait to see it done for one that will fit my Filco MJ2 TKL.

[weenis]

Tag

[i488]

I want an aluminum case soo bad!!

if u can make it happen, i will help bring the price down by selling them in the chinese market. (not intending to making a profit)
I have access to all the chinese keyboard geek forums, and I will be gladly to spread your case
the mkc case has caught the eye balls but not many can afford it.
Again, it really depends on  what price you can get, but the price depends on what volume you can get.
Just lemme know when you have the prototype. I will need the pix to get orders.
Hopefully, this can turn into a group buy.

cheers mate

[dirge]

Mark me down as interested, subscribed to the thread and hope this goes well

[Sifo]

Interested as well

[pasph]

Interested

[DarkShot]

Any update on suppliers and what you're able to get from them mate?

[oneproduct]

Still waiting for the estimate to come back. It's just been a week so far. They didn't specify when they'd get back to me, but I kind of went in with a friendly air since the guy who owns the place is my friend's father, so it wasn't something either of us were really treating as rush rush. I'll be sure to let everyone know once I know something.

[DarkShot]

Fair enough.

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

[damorgue]

Suggestions for how to make it cheaper in images, especially the last pic. Labeled layers A-D starting  from the bottom. Layer B could be interchangeable and be the only piece that needs to be changed to support more PCBs. It determines the clearance below the PCB. Layer C determines the clearance above the PCB. I think Layer A can have extra holes or even hexagonal holes to fit nuts which would simplify the installation and hide the nut. This is probably the cheapest way to make it, especially if you cut the sides as in the last pic. Everyone should be aware that every feature you add then adds to the cost, removing a layer to remove a line on the side, countersinking the screws on the top plate, making a layer in one piece to avoid the vertical line at the corner etc.


Assembly


Together


Cut a place for a nut. This is only valid if cut by laser or waterjet. Otherwise it is a cost adding factor.


Split corners= Much less wasted material

[dirge]

Version without winkeys for phantom + 1

[poopmat]

would something like this work for the quickfire rapid??

[modulor]

Looking good, damorgue!  How about the center mount screws?

would something like this work for the quickfire rapid??

As long as there is room for the small pcb that attaches the usb to the board, then it should be compatible.

[Cindori]

prototype dat shiet nao brah

[neeb]

Those ones in the video look awesome man!

[Cindori]

hey this board is kind of like damorgue's drawings?

http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/index.php?mid=photo&document_srl=5111668

[balanar]

Can't believe I didn't see this till now. I could attempt to source out the cost for acrylic pieces if you could provide the exact dimensions. I think it can be pretty cheap even with shipping as I can try to pull some strings hehe. No harm asking right?

I like the idea of more than one acrylic piece in the middle as it opens up the opportunity to mix colours. Think red black red sandwiched between some aluminum. Yummy! It is also, as someone else mentioned, alot cheaper than getting it made out of one piece.

[litster]

Suggestions for how to make it cheaper in images, especially the last pic. Labeled layers A-D starting  from the bottom. Layer B could be interchangeable and be the only piece that needs to be changed to support more PCBs. It determines the clearance below the PCB. Layer C determines the clearance above the PCB. I think Layer A can have extra holes or even hexagonal holes to fit nuts which would simplify the installation and hide the nut. This is probably the cheapest way to make it, especially if you cut the sides as in the last pic. Everyone should be aware that every feature you add then adds to the cost, removing a layer to remove a line on the side, countersinking the screws on the top plate, making a layer in one piece to avoid the vertical line at the corner etc.

the problem with this is as you need more thickness to accommodate the controller or connector at the back, the front of the keyboard will also get thicker, making the front of the case too tall.  The very first rev of my acrylic case design was like that, and it really sucked having the front as thick as the back. 

This design works fine for keyboards like KMAC or MX Mini because the keyboard uniformly thin front to back.  Filco and Phantom have USB connector or teensy controller, respectively, on the bottom of the PCB at the back.  Your suggestion to make the case with uniform thickness will make the front too thick to be comfortable to type on.

[damorgue]

It was my intention to show that the split corners could make it cheaper since it allows for the parts to stack nicely on a sheet. Not much thought went into the rest of the design.

A small space for the controller would be great as to not have to add that height across the entire board, as has been done before in similar designs.

[Cindori]

those chinese copycats stole ur designz!






http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/index.php?mid=market&page=4&document_srl=5166219

[damorgue]

I wouldn't call it stealing at all. It is a pretty obvious way of constructing it, and it has been done many times before. It is the small features that separate them, and I don't see any of mine in that design. Either way, I want it to be copied, that way I won't have to make one and I can get one of theirs instead

[Cindori]

I obvously applied some humor in my post. I think it's pretty awesome how those kbdmania guys just build the shiet they want. It's like every household over there has a CNC machine, and electronics engineering is taught in kindergarten.