DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS

[terran5992]

Im looking to uprade from my laser etched keyset.
Which one should i get?

[Sifo]

PBT! But only if it's thick. otherwise go doubleshots

[Jocelyn]

Thick dye-sub PBT from Imsto

PBT! But only if it's thick. otherwise go doubleshots

I'd still choose thin PBT over anything ABS.

[keymaster]

Thick PBT Dyesubs

[Sifo]

Thick dye-sub PBT from Imsto

PBT! But only if it's thick. otherwise go doubleshots

I'd still choose thin PBT over anything ABS.

Thin PBT is nasty. I only type on imsto thick blanks, so no ABS here.

[terran5992]

Whats the difference between thick and thin pbt?

[Jocelyn]

Thick is thicker, has cherry profile (lower), is denser and some say it feels better to type on.

Thick is on the right.

[terran5992]

Personally i really hate cherry profile, and i have bought a set of thick pbt from feng during his group buy, really not much difference for me.

[Jocelyn]

Yes, for some people it really doesn't matter. Let me know if you want to sell that thick PBT set from Feng and what color it is 

[keymaster]

Personally i really hate cherry profile, and i have bought a set of thick pbt from feng during his group buy, really not much difference for me.

Ducky will be coming out with dye-sublimated PBT (thick) keycaps with OEM profile. All the information is available on the Ducky Facebook Page.

[terran5992]

Yes, for some people it really doesn't matter. Let me know if you want to sell that thick PBT set from Feng and what color it is 

Its black on white , I sold it off already

Anyways this has really caught my eye.
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w4996320547.44.SpjLXP&id=17218012075&

[Jocelyn]

Those are from Imsto and here's his entire stock of Dyesub PBT - http://aikb.taobao.com/search.htm?spm=a1z10.1.w7574905737.20.vosvCh&scid=269483495&scname=yMjJ%2FbuqIER5ZXN1Yg%3D%3D&checkedRange=true&queryType=cat

Send him a PM including what you want and he'll send you an invoice.

Feng also has the set you linked and you could probably get the slightly cheaper than his Ebay price via GH - http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBC-Blue-Dyesub-Thick-PBT-Cherry-MX-Key-Caps-105-keys-included-/330758846871?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item4d02c37997

Just send him a PM

Those are Imsto's cherry height, thick PBT, dyesubs. They're almost identical to the ones on my keyboard I posted earlier in the thread. They're worth every dollar.

All of this. I'm really hoping Sherry lists them soon as I really want a set with Hangul.

[keymaster]

Yes, for some people it really doesn't matter. Let me know if you want to sell that thick PBT set from Feng and what color it is 

Its black on white , I sold it off already

Anyways this has really caught my eye.
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w4996320547.44.SpjLXP&id=17218012075&

Those are Imsto's cherry height, thick PBT, dyesubs. They're almost identical to the ones on my keyboard I posted earlier in the thread. They're worth every dollar.

[terran5992]

Oh i thought that those were thick pbt with oem height D:

[keymaster]

Oh i thought that those were thick pbt with oem height D:

Nope

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fitem.taobao.com%2Fitem.htm%3Fspm%3Da1z10.3.w4996320547.44.SpjLXP%26id%3D17218012075%26

[calavera]

Thickness is really just preference. Dye subs are superior to double shots but this also boils down to preference. I do like the crisp fonts on double shots. Dye subs are awesome though.

[terran5992]

Hmm Just wondering if thick pbt with OEM profile exist?

[Jocelyn]

Hmm Just wondering if thick pbt with OEM profile exist?

Gotta wait for these

Ducky will be coming out with dye-sublimated PBT (thick) keycaps with OEM profile. All the information is available on the Ducky Facebook Page.

Show Image

[terran5992]

Wow those look amazing , is that just the keycaps or the keyboard included?

[keymaster]

Wow those look amazing , is that just the keycaps or the keyboard included?

I am unsure. On one hand, they're not shown separately which would indicate a no to your question. But, on the other hand, they already do sell keycap sets, so I can see them doing that with these as well.

Maybe someone who can read Mandarin could enlighten us

[Lastpilot]

Leopold sells their FC700R with thick PBT.


http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1334728174

[Jocelyn]

Leopold sells their FC700R with thick PBT.

What a tease! I would do almost anything for a set of their blank grey/graphite and I was hoping your post would contain some kind of new info lol.
I've been told that they're not as thick as Imsto's set, but are heavier due to the type of PBT being denser than standard PBT. Their profile height is in between cherry profile and OEM profile. Also, the spacebar will not work with most keyboards, so you'd need something else for that.

[inteli722]

Does that spacebar have the same stem spacing as the FC200R? looks like it does...

if so...then I would very much like to have that set.

[Lastpilot]

Actually according to this http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33104.0 the spacebar will not fit an FC200R. I really thought they were the same too.

Edit: Also on the leopold website, the Poker X has a PBT edition too. No pictures of how thick they are though.

[metalliqaz]

It's actually the same as the fc500r, even more incompatible

[DavinDidIt]

I would choose dyesubbed PBT over ABS (doubleshot or otherwise) 100% of the time.  To make things even more confusing, Doubleshot PBT keycaps are on the way in the near future too!  If it wasn't for the horrible font, these would be ideal!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.438608786206837.93809.241720585895659&type=1

[keymaster]

I would choose dyesubbed PBT over ABS (doubleshot or otherwise) 100% of the time.  To make things even more confusing, Doubleshot PBT keycaps are on the way in the near future too!  If it wasn't for the horrible font, these would be ideal!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.438608786206837.93809.241720585895659&type=1

I can only imagine doubleshot PBT would be even better than regular PBT. Would doubleshot PBT be more durable than dyesub PBT? Hrmm...

[DavinDidIt]

I can only imagine doubleshot PBT would be even better than regular PBT. Would doubleshot PBT be more durable than dyesub PBT? Hrmm...

I would definitely think so.  The amount of double-shot plastic that makes up the legends on doubleshot PBT keys is thicker than the few microns that the ink can penetrate into the plastic on Dyesubbed PBT

[terran5992]

Well i only hope that the double shot pbt come in oem profile.

[keymaster]

Well i only hope that the double shot pbt come in oem profile.

They most certainly will if they're made by Signature Plastics. They're attempting to make PBT doubleshots affordable, so as of now, they only have the arrow keys set.

[Jmneuv]

SP isn't doing OEM profile though.

Do the thick PBT caps have enough clearance inside the cap for the switch?
It's relatively tight with 1x cherry doubleshots - oem has more clearance but some are very thick so i' wondering.

[sherryton]

These are ABS Double Shot, and they are in Cherry profile.  Made from the Original Cherry Toolings.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40253.0

A lot of people who tried these WILL not switch back to any other keysets unless they are Cherry ABS double shot or Cherry PBT Dye Sublimation.

[terran5992]

I've tried cherry profile and in my honest opinion I really hated it

[Hyde]

Mmmmmm so soon we gonna have OEM Thick PBT?  I wonder how it will compare to Cherry Profile Thick PBT.

[metalliqaz]

FC700R comes with OEM thick PBT IIRC

[OnTheBrink]

FC700R comes with OEM thick PBT IIRC

This was said before I believe. Nevertheless, getting an FC700R in U.S. will cost $200+ minimum. And GMarket doesn't have any blank or English black caps and no gray caps at all.

If you get someone to proxy for you from AU, which I did get somewhere here willing, you can buy one from PC Case Gear. It will still be $200+ minimum with AU to US shipping.

Nevertheless, $200 isn't that bad if you are sold on that keyboard. I think it has one of the nicest cases on the market and the grey/graphite case color is second to none. Also, after reading some reviews, it has even less imperfections than a Filco (perfect case cuts around the arrows. Something not seen on some Filcos, including mine).

I would have gone with it if there weren't complications swapping out keys. Maybe I will get it when it is more available. Given Ducky has stepped up their quality and all their exciting releases, including keys, coming soon--I went with a Ducky Shine 2.

Hope this helps.

[Jocelyn]

FC700R comes with OEM thick PBT IIRC

They're actually slightly less thick than Imsto's, but slightly heavier due to Leopold using a denser PBT material. Their profile height is also somewhere between cherry and oem profile - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40605.msg806839#msg806839

My info comes from WFD.

This was said before I believe. Nevertheless, getting an FC700R in U.S. will cost $200+ minimum. And GMarket doesn't have any blank or English black caps and no gray caps at all.

If you get someone to proxy for you from AU, which I did get somewhere here willing, you can buy one from PC Case Gear. It will still be $200+ minimum with AU to US shipping.

Nevertheless, $200 isn't that bad if you are sold on that keyboard. I think it has one of the nicest cases on the market and the grey/graphite case color is second to none. Also, after reading some reviews, it has even less imperfections than a Filco (perfect case cuts around the arrows. Something not seen on some Filcos, including mine).

I would have gone with it if there weren't complications swapping out keys. Maybe I will get it when it is more available. Given Ducky has stepped up their quality and all their exciting releases, including keys, coming soon--I went with a Ducky Shine 2.

Hope this helps.

I wish someone would buy one in grey and sell me the caps

[Hyde]

Just got my hands on the imsto PBT, while it's good but I find it a bit over hyped.  Doesn't feel like a huge upgrade over stock ABS.  That or maybe I'm not used to cherry profile yet.

I suspect I like the softer feeling of ABS better.  PBT feel a little bit unforgiving.  I wonder if I should try to find myself some thick double shot ABS from old cherry keyboards.

Though to be fair it's only been 2 days since I got the imsto set so I might give it some more time and see 

[L4yercake]

I've been using imstos for a couple months now and the other day I got some Cherry DS and I think I like the DS more. They feel like a better fit on the stems and they feel almost more solid then the PBT.

[Hyde]

Where did you get your Cherry DS?  I suspect I'll like ABS better because it's softer and absorb vibration better.  And I have to say imsto's keycap is kinda loose on the stems.  So you could be right that the Cherry caps might fit better.

[keymaster]

Just got my hands on the imsto PBT, while it's good but I find it a bit over hyped.  Doesn't feel like a huge upgrade over stock ABS.

Well, that explains why you feel they're overhyped. You prefer the feel of ABS, even stock ABS, over PBT... Those, like myself, swear by PBT because we like how smooth/soft PBT feels. PBT also develops shine much slower and is more resistant to chemicals and heat.

[Hyde]

I thought PBT are harder than ABS.  It's more brittle compare to ABS which is more flexible.  Though I have to say even for ABS, black keycaps feels more solid than white keycaps.  I wonder if it's the same for PBT (Since I got light grey).

Now if only they'll come out with OEM profile thick ABS keycaps lol.

[Hyde]

Here some update on my impression over the imsto thick PBT keycaps.  While I realize most on geekhack seems to prefer cherry profile and PBT keycaps, but I realize like mx switches is still all comes down to preference.

After a few days I realize:

1)  I still prefer OEM profile over Cherry profile.
2)  I still find ABS "softer" compares to PBT.  Which felt a little bit too harsh for my taste.  ABS absorb shock a little bit better also sounds a bit deeper.
3)  However I do agree "thick" do help make things feel better especially more noticeable on the larger keys, but less noticeable on the 1x1 keys.

So it sounds like I'm the minority here that actually prefer OEM profile ABS which is what most stock keyboards come with.  Though I'll have to say in a perfect world I'd probably want a OEM profile thick ABS double shot keycaps.

At the moment such keycaps does not exist so the 2nd closest choice I have at this point is either thin ABS or thick cherry double shots.  Maybe once Sherryton comes back I'll try to see if I can get my hands on the cherry double shots and see how it goes 

[Jocelyn]

but I realize like mx switches is still all comes down to preference.

This^ and Thanks for sharing your opinion. I think it's wonderful that we all have different responses to subjective sensations (qualia).

[Krogenar]

Thickness is really just preference. Dye subs are superior to double shots but this also boils down to preference. I do like the crisp fonts on double shots. Dye subs are awesome though.

I would imagine that double-shots would be superior (in terms of resisting wear to the legends) than dye-sub, seeing as how the legend goes all the way to the stem, and dyesub only goes partially down into the keycap. But both have to be better than pad printing.

[swagpiratex]

Lol, this is why we told you we feel sorry for your wallet when you sign up.
 There's no way we can tell you or know what you would like. You're gonna have to get both and find out yourself.

[rarar]

Personally i really hate cherry profile, and i have bought a set of thick pbt from feng during his group buy, really not much difference for me.

Ducky will be coming out with dye-sublimated PBT (thick) keycaps with OEM profile. All the information is available on the Ducky Facebook Page.

Show Image

Saw that on reddit a while ago. SO MUCH WANT. Replace the keycap in the middle of your .gif and put the blue set of keycaps there. THAT IS HOW I FEEL

[rarar]

Just got my hands on the imsto PBT, while it's good but I find it a bit over hyped.  Doesn't feel like a huge upgrade over stock ABS.

Well, that explains why you feel they're overhyped. You prefer the feel of ABS, even stock ABS, over PBT... Those, like myself, swear by PBT because we like how smooth/soft PBT feels. PBT also develops shine much slower and is more resistant to chemicals and heat.

I went straight from crappy quality Razer blackwidow ultimate keycaps, to HHKB blank PBT caps, and OMG I FRICKIN LOVE PBT <3

[yicaoyimu]

IMHO, go for double shot if you want good-looking keycaps, DyeSub PBT if you want something that feel nice to type on.

[Hyde]

but I realize like mx switches is still all comes down to preference.

This^ and Thanks for sharing your opinion. I think it's wonderful that we all have different responses to subjective sensations (qualia).

Haha thanks I'm trying to find if I'm the only one that prefer ABS over PBT.  So far it does sounds like I'm the only one 

Lol, this is why we told you we feel sorry for your wallet when you sign up.
 There's no way we can tell you or know what you would like. You're gonna have to get both and find out yourself.

LOLLLL it was youuuuuuuu, you introduced me to the group buy and now my wallet hates me lol jk.

Though you were the one that told me about the IvanIvanovich (formerly Lysol) group buy.  But I thank you for it because like you said there's no way to know until I actually try it