Conducting auctions is not condoned in the Classifieds subforum. We lack appropriate software infrastructure and legal means to maintain auctions and ensure fair terms for everyone. If you wish to sell your items as auctions, please use appropriate sites, such as eBay. You may link your external auctions in the “External Auctions” subforum (to be added).[/li][/list]
While I like most of the changes I am not sure if a complete ban on auctions is a good thing or not. I know I have conducted a decently run auction (got delayed a touch on sending the pieces out) but it was for a negative profit (donated to GH) and was hoping to do it again sometime depending on if I found something I was willing to part with and could pick it up for a decent price. That would however be the only reason I would conduct an auction. Not to get the most money into my pocket but to help raise money for GH.
While I like most of the changes I am not sure if a complete ban on auctions is a good thing or not. I know I have conducted a decently run auction (got delayed a touch on sending the pieces out) but it was for a negative profit (donated to GH) and was hoping to do it again sometime depending on if I found something I was willing to part with and could pick it up for a decent price. That would however be the only reason I would conduct an auction. Not to get the most money into my pocket but to help raise money for GH.
While it's admirable to run charity auctions the fact of the matter is you could just as easily run something on ebay and donate it after, couldn't you?
While I like most of the changes I am not sure if a complete ban on auctions is a good thing or not. I know I have conducted a decently run auction (got delayed a touch on sending the pieces out) but it was for a negative profit (donated to GH) and was hoping to do it again sometime depending on if I found something I was willing to part with and could pick it up for a decent price. That would however be the only reason I would conduct an auction. Not to get the most money into my pocket but to help raise money for GH.
While it's admirable to run charity auctions the fact of the matter is you could just as easily run something on ebay and donate it after, couldn't you?
Ebay fees suck
I don't like the picture rule. It's one of those things that exists to avoid issues with a few ****ty sellers at the expense of annoying the majority of good ones. I've happily provided pictures to everyone who has requested them in my sales, and I've requested pictures from others as well. But when dealing with trusted individuals, I just don't care.
But that's, just, like, my opinion, man.
Please do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
QuotePlease do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Does that mean I can't have something for sale on both DT and GH?
QuotePlease do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Does that mean I can't have something for sale on both DT and GH?
QuotePlease do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Does that mean I can't have something for sale on both DT and GH?
QuotePlease do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Does that mean I can't have something for sale on both DT and GH?
This is a silly rule, IMO.
QuotePlease do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Does that mean I can't have something for sale on both DT and GH?
This is a silly rule, IMO.
QuotePlease do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Does that mean I can't have something for sale on both DT and GH?
QuotePlease do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Does that mean I can't have something for sale on both DT and GH?
This is a silly rule, IMO.
You should only list for sale or trade items that are already in your possession and include clear photographs of your items (in good light, no blurry night-time “potato shots”) along with your GeekHack.org user name and date the photograph was taken.
QuotePlease do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Does that mean I can't have something for sale on both DT and GH?
surely you guys have different user names other places :P
QuotePlease do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Does that mean I can't have something for sale on both DT and GH?
surely you guys have different user names other places :p
We don't, ray4jc :<
It could mean that. It just wasn't too clear to me what it meant. Wanted to get clarification.QuotePlease do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Does that mean I can't have something for sale on both DT and GH?
ahh, I read that rule to mean : don't post a thread saying check out my crap for sale over at "http://othersite.ru (http://othersite.ru)" .... but maybe I'm wrong about that. If that's the case, the rule should be more explict in what it means.
Yup, that's what it means! Or Reddit and GH. One at a time.
Yup, that's what it means! Or Reddit and GH. One at a time.
Ahh, so no problem in selling at two different sites, just no linking here?
Yup, that's what it means! Or Reddit and GH. One at a time.
Yup, that's what it means! Or Reddit and GH. One at a time.
Ahh, so no problem in selling at two different sites, just no linking here?
It's more for listing the same item in 2+ places at once. We've had someone try to do an auction on reddit and link it here for more bids and replies, for example. That was an extreme case, but a bit shady in terms of logistics.
Yup, that's what it means! Or Reddit and GH. One at a time.
Ahh, so no problem in selling at two different sites, just no linking here?
It's more for listing the same item in 2+ places at once. We've had someone try to do an auction on reddit and link it here for more bids and replies, for example. That was an extreme case, but a bit shady in terms of logistics.
No, that's not the same thing, if you think about it. Linking external auctions in a separate subforum is really for eBay links only, and bids are done through eBay.
The double-selling rule is for not creating "WTS" threads for the same thing here, and say, on reddit, where you're taking orders from both websites for the same item.
The double-selling rule is for not creating "WTS" threads for the same thing here, and say, on reddit, where you're taking orders from both websites for the same item.What's the reasoning behind this rule? I just don't see how it can help anything. It would be great if you could explain to me.
The double-selling rule is for not creating "WTS" threads for the same thing here, and say, on reddit, where you're taking orders from both websites for the same item.
The double-selling rule is for not creating "WTS" threads for the same thing here, and say, on reddit, where you're taking orders from both websites for the same item.What's the reasoning behind this rule? I just don't see how it can help anything. It would be great if you could explain to me.
The double-selling rule is for not creating "WTS" threads for the same thing here, and say, on reddit, where you're taking orders from both websites for the same item.What's the reasoning behind this rule? I just don't see how it can help anything. It would be great if you could explain to me.
Well there was that one guy who was selling that keyboard in about 4 different places that he traded for but didn't send his part of the trade.
I would think it would be ok to do so long as it was noted in the OP, something like 'This 'item' also listed at DT', etc....but that is just like my opinion.
I don't have a problem with people posting an item for sale on multiple sites, as long as they make it VERY CLEAR that the item is posted for sale elsewhere, and probably link to the ad on the other site(s).
If it's to be an auction, which will no longer be allowed on GH, then it should go in the External Auctions subforum.
I don't have a problem with people posting an item for sale on multiple sites, as long as they make it VERY CLEAR that the item is posted for sale elsewhere, and probably link to the ad on the other site(s).
If it's to be an auction, which will no longer be allowed on GH, then it should go in the External Auctions subforum.
I'll second this. I think that sellers should be allowed to sell on multiple sites *if* they say it's listed elsewhere and provide a link. The rule would be hard to enforce in general. And I think that it might be shortsighted of me to have thought that this is the only place that someone might try and sell their keyboard/goods.
I don't have a problem with people posting an item for sale on multiple sites, as long as they make it VERY CLEAR that the item is posted for sale elsewhere, and probably link to the ad on the other site(s).
If it's to be an auction, which will no longer be allowed on GH, then it should go in the External Auctions subforum.
I'll second this. I think that sellers should be allowed to sell on multiple sites *if* they say it's listed elsewhere and provide a link. The rule would be hard to enforce in general. And I think that it might be shortsighted of me to have thought that this is the only place that someone might try and sell their keyboard/goods.
And make it clear that bids/offers will only be accepted on one site.
To increase transparency of bids and prevent someone saying they have a higher offer on a different site when they don't.
I strongly oppose this. This rule would just encourage people to reuse the same threads for a long time, with widely differing items.
- You may post a thread to buy/sell/or conduct a trade here with the following limitation: each member should only create and bump at most 2 up-to-date threads, and 1 unified thread is highly encouraged--the second thread being beneficial only if its nature is very different from the first. For example:
“[FS] Filco Majestouch-2 TKL [WTB] leather wrist rest” – 1 combined thread
“[FT] SP Crap Bag Keycaps – trade here” – 2nd thread
Any additional active threads will be locked or removed.
That would be bad if it were enforced as a rule. It would lead to items not being offered here.
- Please do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
I strongly oppose this. This rule would just encourage people to reuse the same threads for a long time, with widely differing items.
- You may post a thread to buy/sell/or conduct a trade here with the following limitation: each member should only create and bump at most 2 up-to-date threads, and 1 unified thread is highly encouraged--the second thread being beneficial only if its nature is very different from the first. For example:
“[FS] Filco Majestouch-2 TKL [WTB] leather wrist rest” – 1 combined thread
“[FT] SP Crap Bag Keycaps – trade here” – 2nd thread
Any additional active threads will be locked or removed.
It makes it more difficult to see when new items come for sale, and it would leave a lot of old outdated discussions about items no longer for sale.
Does this apply to DT as well? Choosing one or the other will just cause pain. I agree with Findecanor on this one.
- Please do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Are the things listed under 'Thread etiquette' to be considered as rules. Label them as rules if so, cause otherwise that is a bit ambivalent and leaving things which could lead to a ban up for interpretation is bad practice.
- Thread etiquette:
All items for sale must include defined prices (please do not request PMs with offers). If you are unsure how much an item costs, you may ask in the Price Check (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=31779.0) thread.That thread has never worked. I would estimate that the ratio of requests to answers is about 10:1, and this would cause that thread to be drowned. I am completely opposed to this rule. Some less valuable items are not even worth it to try and estimate individually, and just listing them and letting the interested people decide how much a bunch of them are worth will increase the number of successful sales. I am not speaking of auctions. This just seems like something aimed at removing auctions but will also remove the chances of selling larger numbers of cheaper items.
Please make sure your country of residence / item location is specified in your profile or your Classifieds thread, as well as whether you intend to use a proxy for shipping.I think this should be added as a requirement to even post in the classifieds, along with the time active/post number rule. It is beneficial for the entire forum.
These two means that we have to wait for the GB to be delivered. I think being able to sell spots is a good idea. Shipping it only to ship it off again as soon as it arrives seems wasteful to me.[/list][/list]
- Classifieds Post Content
You should only list for sale or trade items that are already in your possession...
---If you are trying to sell your spot in a group buy, please do so in the corresponding group buy thread.
Does this apply to DT as well? Choosing one or the other will just cause pain. I agree with Findecanor on this one.
- Please do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
With new rules, requests for bids or offers will not be allowed. The rule about only posting in one place is probably getting scratched off anyway due to reasonable arguments made here.
All items for sale must include defined prices (please do not request PMs with offers). If you are unsure how much an item costs, you may ask in the Price Check (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=31779.0) thread.That thread has never worked. I would estimate that the ratio of requests to answers is about 10:1, and this would cause that thread to be drowned. I am completely opposed to this rule. Some less valuable items are not even worth it to try and estimate individually, and just listing them and letting the interested people decide how much a bunch of them are worth will increase the number of successful sales. I am not speaking of auctions. This just seems like something aimed at removing auctions but will also remove the chances of selling larger numbers of cheaper items.
I don't see what is really wrong with the classifieds (I quite like the current Laissez faire type classifieds).....
...seems like we're trying to fix a non existent problem
I don't see what is really wrong with the classifieds (I quite like the current Laissez faire type classifieds).....
...seems like we're trying to fix a non existent problem
I don't see what is really wrong with the classifieds (I quite like the current Laissez faire type classifieds).....
...seems like we're trying to fix a non existent problem
I tend to agree. I can explain EXACTLY what's going on here:
A few people started complaining and/or there were one or two isolated incidents involving the classifieds. So the admins/mods thought there was a problem with the RULES, so they feel the need to change said RULES in order to make those few incidents seem resolved.
The reality of the situation is, however, that there was no problem with the RULES to begin with, just a problem with PEOPLE. Which you're going to get no matter what you do, so doing anything at all is just illogical.
IMO. Just saying...
#logic
I don't see what is really wrong with the classifieds (I quite like the current Laissez faire type classifieds).....
...seems like we're trying to fix a non existent problem
I tend to agree. I can explain EXACTLY what's going on here:
A few people started complaining and/or there were one or two isolated incidents involving the classifieds. So the admins/mods thought there was a problem with the RULES, so they feel the need to change said RULES in order to make those few incidents seem resolved.
The reality of the situation is, however, that there was no problem with the RULES to begin with, just a problem with PEOPLE. Which you're going to get no matter what you do, so doing anything at all is just illogical.
IMO. Just saying...
#logic
I would have to agree with this one. To me it almost sounds like gun control. Hey lets make these things illegal and we won't have any more shootings.
I don't see what is really wrong with the classifieds (I quite like the current Laissez faire type classifieds).....
...seems like we're trying to fix a non existent problem
Well, you're a vendor. These changes are being made to try and protect buyers as best we can, without getting involved in individual disputes.
Melvang, CLiB, those posts are not helpful...
We live in societies with rules and laws. It's the same on this forum. The rule changes will be made, so if you have a specific problem with something, please address it.
Melvang, CLiB, those posts are not helpful...
We live in societies with rules and laws. It's the same on this forum. The rule changes will be made, so if you have a specific problem with something, please address it.
Melvang, CLiB, those posts are not helpful...
We live in societies with rules and laws. It's the same on this forum. The rule changes will be made, so if you have a specific problem with something, please address it.
Trying to mediate here: I think they are simply trying to voice the lack of reasoning behind these changes. The changes would probably be received better if each change had an explanation behind it as to what problem it aims to resolve. For instance, I don't see how many of these changes can really decrease the risk of scams and recent unpleasantness. I guess those events are what have sparked you to come up with these changes.
I ... guarantee most geekhackers ... come here for the classifieds...
I ... guarantee most geekhackers ... come here for the classifieds...
FTFY
A link from the Classifieds page to this thread has been added in a stickied announcement thread.
Really don't like the 2 months before starting a thread rule.
Just enforce a strict posting etiquette, but the 2 months won't prevent any scam attempt. Let me explain you why this sucks, with my current case:
I ordered a WASD V2 keyboard with MX Blue. This is my first experience with MX Blue and sadly, it's not working out for me. It costed me a lot to get it, (shipping US > EU, Custom taxes etc) and I really need to sell it back asap to buy a new one. Sadly, with the new potential rules I won't be able to do it fast (whereas i'm currently grinding my way to 60 posts).
It makes no difference if I need 60 posts OR 2 months being around, since people don't know me here they'll ask me to send the keyboard out first, and then they'll pay me. Which is perfectly fine by me as long as the buyer is somewhat reputable. So what's the point preventing me to sell now ? Enforcing strict etiquette is one thing, but the change you're suggesting doesn't really bring anything good imo.
Really don't like the 2 months before starting a thread rule.
Just enforce a strict posting etiquette, but the 2 months won't prevent any scam attempt. Let me explain you why this sucks, with my current case:
I ordered a WASD V2 keyboard with MX Blue. This is my first experience with MX Blue and sadly, it's not working out for me. It costed me a lot to get it, (shipping US > EU, Custom taxes etc) and I really need to sell it back asap to buy a new one. Sadly, with the new potential rules I won't be able to do it fast (whereas i'm currently grinding my way to 60 posts).
It makes no difference if I need 60 posts OR 2 months being around, since people don't know me here they'll ask me to send the keyboard out first, and then they'll pay me. Which is perfectly fine by me as long as the buyer is somewhat reputable. So what's the point preventing me to sell now ? Enforcing strict etiquette is one thing, but the change you're suggesting doesn't really bring anything good imo.
Melvang, CLiB, those posts are not helpful...
We live in societies with rules and laws. It's the same on this forum. The rule changes will be made, so if you have a specific problem with something, please address it.
Really don't like the 2 months before starting a thread rule.
Just enforce a strict posting etiquette, but the 2 months won't prevent any scam attempt. Let me explain you why this sucks, with my current case:
I ordered a WASD V2 keyboard with MX Blue. This is my first experience with MX Blue and sadly, it's not working out for me. It costed me a lot to get it, (shipping US > EU, Custom taxes etc) and I really need to sell it back asap to buy a new one. Sadly, with the new potential rules I won't be able to do it fast (whereas i'm currently grinding my way to 60 posts).
It makes no difference if I need 60 posts OR 2 months being around, since people don't know me here they'll ask me to send the keyboard out first, and then they'll pay me. Which is perfectly fine by me as long as the buyer is somewhat reputable. So what's the point preventing me to sell now ? Enforcing strict etiquette is one thing, but the change you're suggesting doesn't really bring anything good imo.
First off, I'd encourage you to never ship something like a keyboard without accepting payment first. The proper course of action would be for the buyer to pay as goods/services on PayPal, and they could open a dispute if the keyboard never came.
Second, there are other venues in which you could sell your keyboard.
Third, GeekHack is not a marketplace; it's a community. Classifieds is just a perk.
Will there be any changes to vendor rules and/or possible group buy rules?
About the profiteering, say someone makes caps, we have quite a few up and coming cap makers. How would that apply to them?
Profit
The Classifieds subforum is not provided for the purposes of a resale outlet. With that said, we cannot monitor everyone’s transaction history effectively, especially outside of GeekHack.org, so some profitable sales / trades will occur. It is up to the buyers to do their due diligence in researching appropriate prices and deciding if something is worth the asking price. If you are uncertain about an item’s worth, please ask in this thread.
Will there be any changes to vendor rules and/or possible group buy rules?
About the profiteering, say someone makes caps, we have quite a few up and coming cap makers. How would that apply to them?
Where in the proposed rules changes does it address profiteering?
Oh, you mean this?QuoteProfit
The Classifieds subforum is not provided for the purposes of a resale outlet. With that said, we cannot monitor everyone’s transaction history effectively, especially outside of GeekHack.org, so some profitable sales / trades will occur. It is up to the buyers to do their due diligence in researching appropriate prices and deciding if something is worth the asking price. If you are uncertain about an item’s worth, please ask in this thread.
I guess I don't understand your question...
Trolling the moderators or saying that the new rules "cater to the dumb" is not helpful toward addressing these changes to the rules. If you have an issue with a rule change, please bring it up so it can be discussed.
Also, for the no auctions, does that mean charity auctions as well?
Also, for the no auctions, does that mean charity auctions as well?
Yes.
For auctions, why not just allow a separate Ebay Auctions only subforum?
- Auctions
Conducting auctions is not condoned in the Classifieds subforum. We lack appropriate software infrastructure and legal means to maintain auctions and ensure fair terms for everyone. If you wish to sell your items as auctions, please use appropriate sites, such as eBay. You may link your external auctions in the “External Auctions” subforum (to be added).
I thought there was something in there about no profiteering perhaps my reading comprehension sucks or a mod edit took place.
I thought there was something in there about no profiteering perhaps my reading comprehension sucks or a mod edit took place.
It was discussed, and fact is that we can't effectively moderate and regulate who is making how much profit. A lot of times we don't actually know how much a person paid. In some cases you might, because a person might be reselling something that everyone's seen them purchase from another sale. But in general, we can't make a blanket rule about restricting profiteering. The best judges are the buyers. If something looks too expensive--don't buy it :) Unless you have carts of gold, in which case you probably don't care anyway.
P.S.: I'd like to remind to all the argumentative types that these rules can be summed up as follows:
* cleaning up threads with better formatting and explicit photographs and prices, and keeping them up-to-date
* no auctions conducted on the site
* new cut-off rules for people to post threads in the Classifieds
That's mostly all there is to them.
But will it be considered threadcrapping if we point out something is over priced?
But will it be considered threadcrapping if we point out something is over priced?
Actually, that is more relevant than all the useless "GLWS" posts.
Can I sell something for the price I paid but charge 400 dollars for shipping?
Personally I am having much more success selling one item at a time and then closing the thread.
Personally I am having much more success selling one item at a time and then closing the thread.
Yeah, that seems to work better. Then you don't have multiple threads to bump, either.
Pacifist has made the same 3 threads over and over. Multi Threads And Multi bumps is clutter.Personally I am having much more success selling one item at a time and then closing the thread.
Yeah, that seems to work better. Then you don't have multiple threads to bump, either.
Actually those phrases were used for legal reasons, since we cannot tell people what not to do. We can only regulate what they have done.
Are you saying that people should be listing their entire household all the time?
4-5 items at a time is limiting?
Some things could be combined into "novelty caps" or "keycap sets" and "keyboards".
The title is "Classifieds Rules". It means everything inside is expected behavior.
Fine. Just cut out the 'Etiquette' sub-heading then, it's clearly superfluous.I agree with this. Specifying those items under the 'Thread Etiquette' lightly implies that they are optional accepted behaviour, but not specifically REQUIRED behaviour.
TO throw in some ideas:
1) I am working on a big sticky addressing scams now. I feel it isn't good enough so I haven't posted it after several weeks. But newbies are more likely to get scammed than old timers.
2) methinks we need a trade record section in the forums. Where you record, X sold Y to Z at price A, conditions B, mode of payment C. Delivery made within D days. (Or Delivery not made at all within 2 months).
Result: Z satisfied/ unsatisfied/ delighted.
Trade record should be made as soon as payment is made, and updated later.
I am talking to a mod about this now. Basically a trade record section must be extremely dry, objective, point based. No trading of insults. No comments accepted from other parties, unless they had direct involvement (Eg as Proxies). There should be ways to ensure the trade records are easily searchable, so that by 2020 you can go back 6 years and find an ancient trade where X had an unsatisfied buyer.
The Classifieds subforum is not provided for the purposes of a resale outlet. With that said, we cannot monitor everyone’s transaction history effectively, especially outside of GeekHack.org, so some profitable sales / trades will occur.
That was basically the point of the statement about profiteering in the Rules. Making a profit is a hot topic that causes drama in the Classifieds consistently. Just look at the opposing views in this discussion thread even within this same page! And everyone feels strongly about their respective opinion.
That is why it was included as a blurb. A reference on our stance. We can't really regulate it as moderators. It is up to members to do their own research, compare prices, ask questions.
That was basically the point of the statement about profiteering in the Rules. Making a profit is a hot topic that causes drama in the Classifieds consistently. Just look at the opposing views in this discussion thread even within this same page! And everyone feels strongly about their respective opinion.
That is why it was included as a blurb. A reference on our stance. We can't really regulate it as moderators. It is up to members to do their own research, compare prices, ask questions.
I think part of what krog was referring to is say you have a guy/girl who puts a lot of time and effort into making some sort of specialty cap and maybe it cost him/her $10 to make a cap and they'd like to sell it for $20.
I don't believe that's what your guys were addressing anyway.
That was basically the point of the statement about profiteering in the Rules. Making a profit is a hot topic that causes drama in the Classifieds consistently. Just look at the opposing views in this discussion thread even within this same page! And everyone feels strongly about their respective opinion.
That is why it was included as a blurb. A reference on our stance. We can't really regulate it as moderators. It is up to members to do their own research, compare prices, ask questions.
That was basically the point of the statement about profiteering in the Rules. Making a profit is a hot topic that causes drama in the Classifieds consistently. Just look at the opposing views in this discussion thread even within this same page! And everyone feels strongly about their respective opinion.
That is why it was included as a blurb. A reference on our stance. We can't really regulate it as moderators. It is up to members to do their own research, compare prices, ask questions.
I think part of what krog was referring to is say you have a guy/girl who puts a lot of time and effort into making some sort of specialty cap and maybe it cost him/her $10 to make a cap and they'd like to sell it for $20.
I don't believe that's what your guys were addressing anyway.
No, this doesn't have anything to do with an artisan cap crafter selling their wares. Just a blanket statement of the community's philosophy toward those who would tend to "buy low, sell high" to make a profit of their fellow community members.
Correct, that's not what that statement is about. It's more about buying a spacebar off a member for $10 and reselling it next week for $15. Or getting a cheap deal on an SSK on Craigslist and reselling here for 3x as much. Or less extreme: we even have people arguing to no end whether including shipping price in original expenses should count or not, which I believe should be evaluated on a case by case basis.
In any event, we don't have the resources or people with enough time to go through every single post and research every item, ask people for purchase receipts or invoices, and all that and then moderate based on our findings. Not only would that require a dedicated team of people, it would also be an invasion of privacy. hence realistically, we want to remind that it is the task left to our members.
Someone should write up a buying/selling guide :D
Can't we just get rid of the classifieds and hold an annual GH flea market? I feel like people would be much less butthurt if they could complete their keyboard purchases face-to-face...
#sarcasm
Spam, you seem to have lots of experience with therapy....
Little too much fox news in that reply.
No, this doesn't have anything to do with an artisan cap crafter selling their wares. Just a blanket statement of the community's philosophy toward those who would tend to "buy low, sell high" to make a profit of their fellow community members.
For clarity, the document should contain only rules that will be enforced, not opinions or stances that won't.
If they want to be polite about it--that's fine. In a constructive and polite manner. These are the sorts of replies that would not be good:
"Why is this KMAC so expensive? Is it 3x better than my QFR?" - that should go into a different dedicated thread, either in Keyboards, or added to Simple Questions, or What Is It Worth?, etc. Or better to do some searching for KMACs and see what goes into making them.
"So I see that you got this Skull a month ago from someone for $30 and now you're reselling it for $200? And hope no one noticed?" - pretends to be constructive but is more insulting
Here's how you could word it though:
"The average price of these skulls is currently $150, though in the past they've gone for as little as $30 (link to original sale price). Would you consider dropping the price?" - I see no problem with this sort of a reply. Technically if a seller wants to resell for $200--there's nothing you can do to stop him or her. If there's a buyer NOW who wants it and has $200 to spare, they may not care that the seller got it for much less, as there are no other options at this time.
I was looking for an appropriate flow chart for instructing people on _exactly_ how to behave, but couldn't find one anywhere.
Broadly speaking though...
Do you want the item, and like the price, and trust the seller?
Yes: buy it.
No: move along.
Really don't like the 2 months before starting a thread rule.
Just enforce a strict posting etiquette, but the 2 months won't prevent any scam attempt. Let me explain you why this sucks, with my current case:
I ordered a WASD V2 keyboard with MX Blue. This is my first experience with MX Blue and sadly, it's not working out for me. It costed me a lot to get it, (shipping US > EU, Custom taxes etc) and I really need to sell it back asap to buy a new one. Sadly, with the new potential rules I won't be able to do it fast (whereas i'm currently grinding my way to 60 posts).
It makes no difference if I need 60 posts OR 2 months being around, since people don't know me here they'll ask me to send the keyboard out first, and then they'll pay me. Which is perfectly fine by me as long as the buyer is somewhat reputable. So what's the point preventing me to sell now ? Enforcing strict etiquette is one thing, but the change you're suggesting doesn't really bring anything good imo.
Really don't like the 2 months before starting a thread rule.
Just enforce a strict posting etiquette, but the 2 months won't prevent any scam attempt. Let me explain you why this sucks, with my current case:
I ordered a WASD V2 keyboard with MX Blue. This is my first experience with MX Blue and sadly, it's not working out for me. It costed me a lot to get it, (shipping US > EU, Custom taxes etc) and I really need to sell it back asap to buy a new one. Sadly, with the new potential rules I won't be able to do it fast (whereas i'm currently grinding my way to 60 posts).
It makes no difference if I need 60 posts OR 2 months being around, since people don't know me here they'll ask me to send the keyboard out first, and then they'll pay me. Which is perfectly fine by me as long as the buyer is somewhat reputable. So what's the point preventing me to sell now ? Enforcing strict etiquette is one thing, but the change you're suggesting doesn't really bring anything good imo.
Yes it does, what does it do? it makes it more difficult for "drive by sellers". what can be done in one day? 60 posts that are not spam, TRUST me, i've done it to bypass the (10posts to view, 20 posts to bid, 50 posts in VIP section) post number, and none of it can be flagged as spam. As long as you can type 2 sentences a post, not sound like an idiot "lolz that's cool dude!", you can get 60 posts easily, if motivated, and "drive by sellers" are motivated, all you have to do is reply to 2 posts a sub-section every 6 hours and you're under the radar.
What they cannot bypass is a timestamp, in thise case, when the timestamp of the account was created, spam as much as you want, you still gotta wait 60 days, and by then "MOST" "drive by sellers" look at other easier targets to defraud in other forums.
One other major thing I think should be addressed here (this may have been answered already, if it was my apologies):
What about raffles?
One other major thing I think should be addressed here (this may have been answered already, if it was my apologies):
What about raffles?
Like selling tickets to get to punch someone?
Or FREE topre keyboard minimum 10 tickets sold @$20 apiece (one ticket per person)...hey...maybe I should try that.
A note about making profit on reselling goods:
The classifieds subforum is a perk of community membership. It is not a retail outlet or a resource to be deliberately exploited for profit; you are encouraged to buy, sell, and trade more or less at cost. That said, reasonable profit on sales and trades cannot in practice be stopped and is not disallowed. Please use good judgment and discretion. Remember that other forum members are not customers -- they're friends, fellow hobbyists, and community members. Posting huge markups on items (while not forbidden) is generally frowned upon by other members and may have social consequences on the forum. Polite discussion of prices in the Classifieds is encouraged (particularly in this thread) to help both buyers and sellers arrive at a fair price.
If you wish to respond to someone's listing and point out constructively and politely that the average sale price of an item is lower than what they chose, you may do so, but do include references. Any personal insults or aggression in price arguments may be subject to moderator action, potentially including muting or banning of participants."
The classifieds subforum is a perk of community membership. Remember that other forum members are not only customers -- they are friends, fellow hobbyists, and community members. Posting huge markups on items (while not forbidden) is generally frowned upon by other members and may have social consequences on the forum. Polite discussion of prices in the Classifieds is encouraged (particularly in [link]this thread) to help both buyers and sellers arrive at a fair price.
Comments in sales threads are now not only allowed but encouraged, so long as they are relevant (to the sale), constructive and polite. This includes discussions of price, the condition of the items, the provision of photographs, etc. Personal insults, aggression (passive or overt) in sales threads (by anyone, including the seller) will be subject to moderator action. Citing previous sales is encouraged. Complaints about large markups and 'price gouging' will receive the sympathy of moderators but no action will be taken.
I like almost all of it, with the exception of the final paragraph:QuoteA note about making profit on reselling goods:
The classifieds subforum is a perk of community membership. It is not a retail outlet or a resource to be deliberately exploited for profit; you are encouraged to buy, sell, and trade more or less at cost. That said, reasonable profit on sales and trades cannot in practice be stopped and is not disallowed. Please use good judgment and discretion. Remember that other forum members are not customers -- they're friends, fellow hobbyists, and community members. Posting huge markups on items (while not forbidden) is generally frowned upon by other members and may have social consequences on the forum. Polite discussion of prices in the Classifieds is encouraged (particularly in this thread) to help both buyers and sellers arrive at a fair price.
If you wish to respond to someone's listing and point out constructively and politely that the average sale price of an item is lower than what they chose, you may do so, but do include references. Any personal insults or aggression in price arguments may be subject to moderator action, potentially including muting or banning of participants."
The line: '[the classifieds] is not to be deliberately exploited for profit; you are encouraged to buy, sell and trade more or less at cost.'
To me, and others, this sets a bad tone. The rest of the preceding document sets up rules, a policy. This entire paragraph amounts to more of a manifesto than a policy. The use of the word 'exploited' casts users who seek a profit in a negative light, which doesn't help the document outline a policy. This line is then followed up by: 'That said, reasonable profit on sales and trades cannot in practice be stopped and is not disallowed.' Again, the subtext is negative: "The owners of the forum would really like to police sellers to make sure they don't make a profit, but we don't have the technology to get deep enough inside everyone's intestines to do so. But we really wish we could."
It feels like we installed an in-ground pool, and put up a sign that says: 'No Splashing, No Urinating in the Pool, Fun Should Be Kept to a Minimum.*'
* That said, reasonable 'fun' in the pool cannot in practice be stopped and is not disallowed.
Let's stick to the facts -- don't pee in the pool, don't splash. Leave out the manifesto stuff. Or just get rid of the pool entirely.
The language about forums members being more than just customers, great. The bits about public, polite and constructive discussion of prices, the possible social consequences of elevated prices, that's all great -- very good ideas. But the slant on the first part will leave a bad taste in people's mouths, and it will hurt the forum.
How about this:QuoteThe classifieds subforum is a perk of community membership. Remember that other forum members are not only customers -- they are friends, fellow hobbyists, and community members. Posting huge markups on items (while not forbidden) is generally frowned upon by other members and may have social consequences on the forum. Polite discussion of prices in the Classifieds is encouraged (particularly in [link]this thread) to help both buyers and sellers arrive at a fair price.
Comments in sales threads are now not only allowed but encouraged, so long as they are relevant (to the sale), constructive and polite. This includes discussions of price, the condition of the items, the provision of photographs, etc. Personal insults, aggression (passive or overt) in sales threads (by anyone, including the seller) will be subject to moderator action. Citing previous sales is encouraged. Complaints about large markups and 'price gouging' will receive the sympathy of moderators but no action will be taken.
Shorter and more focused on the policy. It doesn't enshrine capitalism as a 'Force for Good' and it doesn't make the self-flagellating socialist percentage of this community into superstars.
Posting huge markups on items (while not forbidden) is generally frowned upon by other members and may have social consequences on the forum
agree with krogenar here, especially this linePosting huge markups on items (while not forbidden) is generally frowned upon by other members and may have social consequences on the forum
So we're gonna have the forum karma hit squad go nuts on you in other forum topics if you're selling something higher than what they deem is fair market value?
So we're gonna have the forum karma hit squad go nuts on you in other forum topics if you're selling something higher than what they deem is fair market value?
Might there be a possibility of getting a subsection for sales where all proceeds will go to GH?
So we're gonna have the forum karma hit squad go nuts on you in other forum topics if you're selling something higher than what they deem is fair market value?
I don't think the mods could be expected to control people's emotions on whether a price was too high. It is stupid for third parties to be upset about transactions in which no one claims injury. There are people on GeekHack who seethe when someone sells a $40 Clack for $200. The buyer and seller are both fine with it, but these third parties are enraged.
Let them be enraged -- it's their right. They should be allowed to express their righteous fury in a polite and constructive way.*
*Expressions of righteous fury may have social consequences on the forum.
agree with krogenar here, especially this linePosting huge markups on items (while not forbidden) is generally frowned upon by other members and may have social consequences on the forum
So we're gonna have the forum karma hit squad go nuts on you in other forum topics if you're selling something higher than what they deem is fair market value?
That already happens now, I mean the pitchforks haven't been out too much lately but the usual hecklers come out pretty regularly.
yeah but im saying they're basically condoning this pitchforking now.
Its kinda silly. Also does this count as constructive posting in the sale thread then?
Seriously should just close classified on GH and let those karma****s be happy to circlejerk themselves.
yeah but im saying they're basically condoning this pitchforking now.
Its kinda silly. Also does this count as constructive posting in the sale thread then?
Seriously should just close classified on GH and let those karma****s be happy to circlejerk themselves.
If you bought CC (or anything else) for $40 and then try to resell it for $200, I would consider these comments to be constructive and relevant."
"This item normally sells for $40 -- why are you selling it for $200?"
Possible responses: "That's what it's worth to me." or "Yes, $40 versions of this product are available. This one I found and cleaned and refurbished and/or is special in some way."
"Always check the connectors on this -- this model is notorious for having wiring problems. Can the seller confirm that the cord is working?" Possible responses: Silence, or a guarantee that it was tested and works. A photo of the area of concern, etc. If the seller ignores relevant questions, well, that speaks volumes doesn't it?
Add rude comments to these statements, and they're out. I think the ToS requires basic civility, right?
Give me an example of "pitchforking"? Give me an actual statement from someone - is it rude, or is it just an upsetting statement of fact? Or both?
Give me an example of "pitchforking"? Give me an actual statement from someone - is it rude, or is it just an upsetting statement of fact? Or both?
Give me an example of "pitchforking"? Give me an actual statement from someone - is it rude, or is it just an upsetting statement of fact? Or both?
I would say both, but more than that its the mentality that when one person decides to be negative then all their buddies (you know GH is made up of cliques, they are like girls who always have to go to the bathroom together) decide to come and bash the person/thread also and sometimes it can be awful/hateful PM's as well.
The line: '[the classifieds] is not to be deliberately exploited for profit; you are encouraged to buy, sell and trade more or less at cost.'
To me, and others, this sets a bad tone. The rest of the preceding document sets up rules, a policy. This entire paragraph amounts to more of a manifesto than a policy. The use of the word 'exploited' casts users who seek a profit in a negative light, which doesn't help the document outline a policy. This line is then followed up by: 'That said, reasonable profit on sales and trades cannot in practice be stopped and is not disallowed.' Again, the subtext is negative: "The owners of the forum would really like to police sellers to make sure they don't make a profit, but we don't have the technology to get deep enough inside everyone's intestines to do so. But we really wish we could."
yeah but im saying they're basically condoning this pitchforking now.
Its kinda silly. Also does this count as constructive posting in the sale thread then?
Seriously should just close classified on GH and let those karma****s be happy to circlejerk themselves.
If you bought CC (or anything else) for $40 and then try to resell it for $200, I would consider these comments to be constructive and relevant."
"This item normally sells for $40 -- why are you selling it for $200?"
Possible responses: "That's what it's worth to me." or "Yes, $40 versions of this product are available. This one I found and cleaned and refurbished and/or is special in some way."
"Always check the connectors on this -- this model is notorious for having wiring problems. Can the seller confirm that the cord is working?" Possible responses: Silence, or a guarantee that it was tested and works. A photo of the area of concern, etc. If the seller ignores relevant questions, well, that speaks volumes doesn't it?
Add rude comments to these statements, and they're out. I think the ToS requires basic civility, right?
Give me an example of "pitchforking"? Give me an actual statement from someone - is it rude, or is it just an upsetting statement of fact? Or both?
The line: '[the classifieds] is not to be deliberately exploited for profit; you are encouraged to buy, sell and trade more or less at cost.'
To me, and others, this sets a bad tone. The rest of the preceding document sets up rules, a policy. This entire paragraph amounts to more of a manifesto than a policy. The use of the word 'exploited' casts users who seek a profit in a negative light, which doesn't help the document outline a policy. This line is then followed up by: 'That said, reasonable profit on sales and trades cannot in practice be stopped and is not disallowed.' Again, the subtext is negative: "The owners of the forum would really like to police sellers to make sure they don't make a profit, but we don't have the technology to get deep enough inside everyone's intestines to do so. But we really wish we could."
People _have_ exploited the classifieds though, e.g., winning a Clack in an EK auction and flipping it for a huge markup before it even arrives. I think 'resource to be exploited' is a fair description of that kind of behavior, and it's also fair to state that we, the forum staff, do not want the classifieds to be used in this way. The rules don't explicitly prohibit that behavior, but we wish you wouldn't do it, and are warning you that others do not like it and will hold it against you. I think you're reading too much into what's written about our feelings about what we _wish_ we could do.
No, if you read the rules carefully, there's never an okay for rudeness and bad-mouthing, nor is there room for it in the current ToS. If you look at it from all directions, the bit about Profit is just a statement of the fact: we can't control prices as moderators, we can't verify prices for every item, and we can only moderate based on behavior and specifically breaking rules. Yes, there are social consequences from overpricing--that's what it's like to be a human in a society of other humans--we're not just making it up to encourage some pitchfork mobs. It's going to happen anyway, and we can only deal with results. Imagine if we said "no profit"--how are we going to police that? Imagine the amount of pitchfork mobs happening then, trying to argue every other ad with something like "you said 'at cost', but charging $3 more for it". There are reasons for the wording being what it is, and not everyone is going to agree with it. But we have to think as moderators and administrators for the greater benefit of the community.
No, if you read the rules carefully, there's never an okay for rudeness and bad-mouthing, nor is there room for it in the current ToS. If you look at it from all directions, the bit about Profit is just a statement of the fact: we can't control prices as moderators, we can't verify prices for every item, and we can only moderate based on behavior and specifically breaking rules. Yes, there are social consequences from overpricing--that's what it's like to be a human in a society of other humans--we're not just making it up to encourage some pitchfork mobs. It's going to happen anyway, and we can only deal with results. Imagine if we said "no profit"--how are we going to police that? Imagine the amount of pitchfork mobs happening then, trying to argue every other ad with something like "you said 'at cost', but charging $3 more for it". There are reasons for the wording being what it is, and not everyone is going to agree with it. But we have to think as moderators and administrators for the greater benefit of the community.
so instead of taking a stand and also saying pitchfork mob mentality/comments will not be tolerated, its an open warning that it will happen and we'll look into it, but maybe not and be ready to take on the pitchfork mob?
I'm just saying the wording seems to condone the fact that pitchfork mobbing will happen and really its your fault if it does happen because you tried to profit.
It's always about Clacks with you guys, isn't it?
The forum staff has a position, and it's stated in the new rules. It is what it is.
so instead of taking a stand and also saying pitchfork mob mentality/comments will not be tolerated, its an open warning that it will happen and we'll look into it, but maybe not and be ready to take on the pitchfork mob?
I'm just saying the wording seems to condone the fact that pitchfork mobbing will happen and really its your fault if it does happen because you tried to profit.
[...]
- Discussion in sale threads
All discussion in the Classifieds threads should be limited to direct questions regarding items for sale/trade, shipping & handling inquiries, or relevant polite and constructive comments about sellers (such as if you suspect a dishonest seller) and prices, and corresponding answers.
- A note about making profit on reselling goods:
[...]
If you wish to respond to someone's listing and point out constructively and politely that the average sale price of an item is lower than what they chose, you may do so, but do include references. Any personal insults or aggression in price arguments may be subject to moderator action, potentially including muting or banning of participants."
NOTE: You must agree to these TOS (Terms of Service) before using GeekHack Forums
[...]
Personal Attacks - Personal attacks often lead to the trading of insults, and can throw the discussion of a legitimate topic off-track. Personal attacks are defined as issuing a single or repeated personal attack or attacks aimed at another member, rather than at their opinions or ideas. Criticizing a member's post is not considered a personal attack, but using terms that are derogatory, or designed to discredit a member is not permitted Furthermore, comments of a racist or sexist nature, as well as derogatory comments about national origin or sexual orientation, will be dealt with harshly, up to and including a ban from the forums.
Trolling - Trolling can be defined as when a member posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the primary intent or consequence of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. Trolling can also be accomplished by harassing another member by following them through various threads, creating threads directed at another member or group of members, or intentionally creating the same thread in various forums despite being warned or told to post in the correct forum. Members who feel they are being "trolled" should contact a moderator immediately, as this is the only effective way to prevent this behavior.
So you guys would be okay with the following scenario?
1. WASDkeyboards gets limited stock of ten (10) CODE Keyboard w/Clears. Sells @ $150.
2. jdcarpe uses his savings to buy 10x CODE w/clears @ $150/ea. $1500.
3. jdcarpe sells each CODE for $250, because they are no longer available anywhere, but market demand is high. $2500.
4. jdcarpe makes 67% ROI in just a few days by taking advantage of a niche marketplace.
So that is okay?
Forum staff is tired of opportunists seeing forum members as their personal "wallet" when they need to make quick cash.
So you guys would be okay with the following scenario?
1. WASDkeyboards gets limited stock of ten (10) CODE Keyboard w/Clears. Sells @ $150.
2. jdcarpe uses his savings to buy 10x CODE w/clears @ $150/ea. $1500.
3. jdcarpe sells each CODE for $250, because they are no longer available anywhere, but market demand is high. $2500.
4. jdcarpe makes 67% ROI in just a few days by taking advantage of a niche marketplace.
So that is okay?
Forum staff is tired of opportunists seeing forum members as their personal "wallet" when they need to make quick cash.
So by not allowing this on GH, how are you stopping any of these steps?
What happens if the following:
jdcarpe posts on say OCN/[H] forums/Reddit or eBay/Craigslist etc and people post in great finds or bring it up in a thread on GH?
Or someone who's a member at GH goes to these said forums and ends up buying the keyboard because its hyped at GH
jdcarpe still makes his 67% ROI in a few days by taking advantage of a niche marketplace.
What im saying is this doesn't stop your point of profiteering off of a niche market. The fact is if something's in high demand and discussed on GH, its most likely going to cause people to go buy it at overpriced cost. Allowing it on Geekhack or not doesn't change the fact its going to happen.
Not to mention i guarantee you the way this is going to be now is people are going to put up items at a high set price or say for trade.
Or if someone's looking for specific item, someone's gonna PM him/her and offer them the item at the high price as its what the "market" dictates.
you're gonna end up having offers given through PMs and sold at above your market prices. This is not going to stop profiteering.
The forum staff has a position, and it's stated in the new rules. It is what it is.
No, if you read the rules carefully, there's never an okay for rudeness and bad-mouthing, nor is there room for it in the current ToS. If you look at it from all directions, the bit about Profit is just a statement of the fact: we can't control prices as moderators, we can't verify prices for every item, and we can only moderate based on behavior and specifically breaking rules. Yes, there are social consequences from overpricing--that's what it's like to be a human in a society of other humans--we're not just making it up to encourage some pitchfork mobs. It's going to happen anyway, and we can only deal with results. Imagine if we said "no profit"--how are we going to police that? Imagine the amount of pitchfork mobs happening then, trying to argue every other ad with something like "you said 'at cost', but charging $3 more for it".
The line: '[the classifieds] is not to be deliberately exploited for profit; you are encouraged to buy, sell and trade more or less at cost.'
To me, and others, this sets a bad tone. The rest of the preceding document sets up rules, a policy. This entire paragraph amounts to more of a manifesto than a policy. The use of the word 'exploited' casts users who seek a profit in a negative light, which doesn't help the document outline a policy. This line is then followed up by: 'That said, reasonable profit on sales and trades cannot in practice be stopped and is not disallowed.' Again, the subtext is negative: "The owners of the forum would really like to police sellers to make sure they don't make a profit, but we don't have the technology to get deep enough inside everyone's intestines to do so. But we really wish we could."
People _have_ exploited the classifieds though, e.g., winning a Clack in an EK auction and flipping it for a huge markup before it even arrives. I think 'resource to be exploited' is a fair description of that kind of behavior, and it's also fair to state that we, the forum staff, do not want the classifieds to be used in this way. The rules don't explicitly prohibit that behavior, but we wish you wouldn't do it, and are warning you that others do not like it and will hold it against you. I think you're reading too much into what's written about our feelings about what we _wish_ we could do.
It's always about Clacks with you guys, isn't it?
The forum staff has a position, and it's stated in the new rules. It is what it is.
The point of this thread was to discuss the new rules, right? Or was the thread title changed?
Regardless of your philosophical stance, which I don't agree with obviously, I don't care what goes on on other forums. I care about what goes on at GH. That is the difference.
Exactly. So why the debate on a statement of fact? Let's talk about rules.
Exactly. So why the debate on a statement of fact? Let's talk about rules.
Will we be seeing any new rules/regulations on vendors/group buys etc?
Will we be seeing any new rules/regulations on vendors/group buys etc?
^^ :thumb:
The rules should be fair on both sides.
Set a price, but don't be threadcrapping about the price.
You personally condone threadcrapping about prices as you don't view it as threadcrapping.
Exactly. So why the debate on a statement of fact? Let's talk about rules.
To what fact are your referring?
The rules should be fair on both sides.
Set a price, but don't be threadcrapping about the price.
You personally condone threadcrapping about prices as you don't view it as threadcrapping.
This language achieves nothing except a chilling effect on economic activity. How is someone supposed to know how much profit is too much? Maybe they should sell it at a loss, just to be safe? No, they won't do that -- they'll go someplace else, get the price that they want, and that's a little less activity for GH. Keyboards and keycaps go outside the GH community, or, even worse, they remain unsold, get dropped into closets and forgotten. People searching for unique, or rare items will find them in some other manner. Likely, these transactions that so twist the panties of some community members will just happen under the table. So nothing is achieved except less traffic for GH, less openness, less expression
The declaration that GH is philosophically opposed to profit (but can do nothing about it) weakens the document and create a negative atmosphere not just for "evil" exploiters but ordinary people trying to achieve a "reasonable" profit.
The rules should be fair on both sides.
Set a price, but don't be threadcrapping about the price.
You personally condone threadcrapping about prices as you don't view it as threadcrapping.
Can you define threadcrap? Is it any criticism of the seller or his/her asking price?
i know how im going to get rich now.
buy a black and white 87u, switch caps, sell them for 70 more "because these don't come standard".
I'M QUITTING MY JOB TOMORROW.
Exactly. So why the debate on a statement of fact? Let's talk about rules.
To what fact are your referring?
The FACT that forum staff discourages profiteering off our forum members. I mean that's a FACT, bro.
Its as if I personally have to justify why im selling it at $140.
Is the below quoted response considered a threadcrap?i know how im going to get rich now.
buy a black and white 87u, switch caps, sell them for 70 more "because these don't come standard".
I'M QUITTING MY JOB TOMORROW.
This language achieves nothing except a chilling effect on economic activity. How is someone supposed to know how much profit is too much? Maybe they should sell it at a loss, just to be safe? No, they won't do that -- they'll go someplace else, get the price that they want, and that's a little less activity for GH. Keyboards and keycaps go outside the GH community, or, even worse, they remain unsold, get dropped into closets and forgotten. People searching for unique, or rare items will find them in some other manner. Likely, these transactions that so twist the panties of some community members will just happen under the table. So nothing is achieved except less traffic for GH, less openness, less expression
I think it achieves the goal of stating how we want the classifieds to be in practice, above and beyond what the rules require them to be. We don't want the classifieds to be a pure market. We want goods to circulate more or less at cost. Enforcing that is impossible, but we would like that to be the end result, ideally.
Its as if I personally have to justify why im selling it at $140.
I think you do. Price is relevant to your sale. If someone can say why they think it's a terrible price, others reading your thread should know. If someone attacks you in your sale thread, their posts will be removed. If they say "this key is available here for half the price", that's legit and will be left alone.
Discourage how? Through what actions?
Right, Mean Girls stuff. Nasty PM's, etc. That language about exploitation, wanting to do something, but not being able to do it, but warning that yeah, we might pillory you if we feel like it? We're gonna get on our single-gear vintage bikes, hook up our growlers full of microbrews and not invite you and you'll be so sorry... it's laughable. Just stick to the policy, not your feelings about profit. It is a FACT that there's a seriously screwed up clique here at GH. I see it more and more.
so wait since this specifically applies to clacks and lets be honest the main complaint about classified profit revolves around clacks, I'd be ok with declaring im selling it at $140 because I paid $140?
You're telling me as long as I put that in my sale thread noone can question me about the price? Or any posts about that price being a "rip off" will be removed?
If this is how its being moderated, I'd have no problems with that. But the fact is i've seen in my thread this isn't how its moderated, and the posts were left along and crapped on.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=27058.msg509406#msg509406
irony is there's even mention that the same posts were done on OCN and OCN mods removed and warned for threadcrapping.
This is not a fair characterization of the Classifieds Manifesto.
I think we'd be ok to take out the "social consequences" line if that feels like it's condoning pitchforking.
But I am not convinced that any of the rest of it has the negative associations or consequences that you are attributing to it.
These rules are bad and you should feel bad!
such as if you suspect a dishonest seller
btw, just another thing i was thinking about (slow day at work lol)Quotesuch as if you suspect a dishonest seller
i know you don't want a blacklist of some sort, so we're ok to maintain our own blacklist so to speak and call out people who have bad records in their threads?
I appreciate the explicit lack of a stance here :thumb:
Thank you for listening to and acting on feedback!
I appreciate the explicit lack of a stance here :thumb:
Thank you for listening to and acting on feedback!
I agree, the new paragraph is leaner and clearer. My only remaining critique (I know, right? What now Krog?!) is to perhaps change the "may be moderated" to "will be moderated." Being rude and insulting "may" result in moderator action? Again, thanks to the moderating team for listening.
i thought you guys were going to crack down on this?
pacifist creates the same thread every few days. adding maybe one item.
old thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54502.msg1221307#msg1221307
new thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55724.msg1253407#msg1253407
reason why this is okay?
all different items ;)
but lets see...
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=53084.msg1181854#msg1181854
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=53655.msg1198278#msg1198278
same items. multiple times.
hell, you copy and paste from the prior thread.
but meh, mods aren't going to do anything anyway.
Do you not see that I sold 4 caps between the two threads?
dont delete my comments.
Does announcing a price drop constitute a bump? i.e. Can it be done within 24 hours of the last post? (Within reason of course, no 1 cent price drops.)
According to the new rules, announcing a price drop would happen in the OP of your thread, with no reason to bump until 24 hours from the last post in the thread (not necessarily YOUR last post in the thread).
I think the 24hr rule on bump could be reconsider. I know is needed to avoid to get the board filled with ads, however exposure is required for the things to sale. You should consider that during normal hours the posts in the spy on latest forum posts may last a few minutes, maybe around fifteen, but during peak hours the posts last under 5 minutes. That means 24hr bump equals only a few minutes of exposure. I suggest a shorter term for bumping. Maybe each 12 hr.
Other option may be to add some code to make a rotation of classified adds at certain time, let say each 12 hours, to allow the active posters to gain exposure for the interested parties that check the classifieds. The option with this code may have a link at the menu or at the homepage.
I think the 24hr rule on bump could be reconsider. I know is needed to avoid to get the board filled with ads, however exposure is required for the things to sale. You should consider that during normal hours the posts in the spy on latest forum posts may last a few minutes, maybe around fifteen, but during peak hours the posts last under 5 minutes. That means 24hr bump equals only a few minutes of exposure. I suggest a shorter term for bumping. Maybe each 12 hr.
Other option may be to add some code to make a rotation of classified adds at certain time, let say each 12 hours, to allow the active posters to gain exposure for the interested parties that check the classifieds. The option with this code may have a link at the menu or at the homepage.
If people are that interesting in buying something they will go check the classifieds and not rely on spy.
And more bumping would only make it harder to stay on the first page of the classifieds, much less near the top of the first page :D
I think the 24hr rule on bump could be reconsider. I know is needed to avoid to get the board filled with ads, however exposure is required for the things to sale. You should consider that during normal hours the posts in the spy on latest forum posts may last a few minutes, maybe around fifteen, but during peak hours the posts last under 5 minutes. That means 24hr bump equals only a few minutes of exposure. I suggest a shorter term for bumping. Maybe each 12 hr.
Other option may be to add some code to make a rotation of classified adds at certain time, let say each 12 hours, to allow the active posters to gain exposure for the interested parties that check the classifieds. The option with this code may have a link at the menu or at the homepage.
If people are that interesting in buying something they will go check the classifieds and not rely on spy.
And more bumping would only make it harder to stay on the first page of the classifieds, much less near the top of the first page :D
That is why I suggested the FIFO sorting also, within the classifieds.
I think the 24hr rule on bump could be reconsider. I know is needed to avoid to get the board filled with ads, however exposure is required for the things to sale. You should consider that during normal hours the posts in the spy on latest forum posts may last a few minutes, maybe around fifteen, but during peak hours the posts last under 5 minutes. That means 24hr bump equals only a few minutes of exposure. I suggest a shorter term for bumping. Maybe each 12 hr.
Other option may be to add some code to make a rotation of classified adds at certain time, let say each 12 hours, to allow the active posters to gain exposure for the interested parties that check the classifieds. The option with this code may have a link at the menu or at the homepage.
If people are that interesting in buying something they will go check the classifieds and not rely on spy.
And more bumping would only make it harder to stay on the first page of the classifieds, much less near the top of the first page :D
That is why I suggested the FIFO sorting also, within the classifieds.
That just seems to complicate things, I always stick with K.I.S.S.
I think the 24hr rule on bump could be reconsider. I know is needed to avoid to get the board filled with ads, however exposure is required for the things to sale. You should consider that during normal hours the posts in the spy on latest forum posts may last a few minutes, maybe around fifteen, but during peak hours the posts last under 5 minutes. That means 24hr bump equals only a few minutes of exposure. I suggest a shorter term for bumping. Maybe each 12 hr.
Other option may be to add some code to make a rotation of classified adds at certain time, let say each 12 hours, to allow the active posters to gain exposure for the interested parties that check the classifieds. The option with this code may have a link at the menu or at the homepage.
If people are that interesting in buying something they will go check the classifieds and not rely on spy.
And more bumping would only make it harder to stay on the first page of the classifieds, much less near the top of the first page :D
That is why I suggested the FIFO sorting also, within the classifieds.
That just seems to complicate things, I always stick with K.I.S.S.
What's that? I hope I am not biting the bait. :(
I think the 24hr rule on bump could be reconsider. I know is needed to avoid to get the board filled with ads, however exposure is required for the things to sale. You should consider that during normal hours the posts in the spy on latest forum posts may last a few minutes, maybe around fifteen, but during peak hours the posts last under 5 minutes. That means 24hr bump equals only a few minutes of exposure. I suggest a shorter term for bumping. Maybe each 12 hr.
Other option may be to add some code to make a rotation of classified adds at certain time, let say each 12 hours, to allow the active posters to gain exposure for the interested parties that check the classifieds. The option with this code may have a link at the menu or at the homepage.
If people are that interesting in buying something they will go check the classifieds and not rely on spy.
And more bumping would only make it harder to stay on the first page of the classifieds, much less near the top of the first page :D
That is why I suggested the FIFO sorting also, within the classifieds.
That just seems to complicate things, I always stick with K.I.S.S.
What's that? I hope I am not biting the bait. :(
I think the 24hr rule on bump could be reconsider. I know is needed to avoid to get the board filled with ads, however exposure is required for the things to sale. You should consider that during normal hours the posts in the spy on latest forum posts may last a few minutes, maybe around fifteen, but during peak hours the posts last under 5 minutes. That means 24hr bump equals only a few minutes of exposure. I suggest a shorter term for bumping. Maybe each 12 hr.
Other option may be to add some code to make a rotation of classified adds at certain time, let say each 12 hours, to allow the active posters to gain exposure for the interested parties that check the classifieds. The option with this code may have a link at the menu or at the homepage.
If people are that interesting in buying something they will go check the classifieds and not rely on spy.
And more bumping would only make it harder to stay on the first page of the classifieds, much less near the top of the first page :D
That is why I suggested the FIFO sorting also, within the classifieds.
That just seems to complicate things, I always stick with K.I.S.S.
What's that? I hope I am not biting the bait. :(
keep it simple stupid :D
Not calling you stupid, it is just a saying I thought everyone knew that....I must be getting old.
I think the 24hr rule on bump could be reconsider. I know is needed to avoid to get the board filled with ads, however exposure is required for the things to sale. You should consider that during normal hours the posts in the spy on latest forum posts may last a few minutes, maybe around fifteen, but during peak hours the posts last under 5 minutes. That means 24hr bump equals only a few minutes of exposure. I suggest a shorter term for bumping. Maybe each 12 hr.
Other option may be to add some code to make a rotation of classified adds at certain time, let say each 12 hours, to allow the active posters to gain exposure for the interested parties that check the classifieds. The option with this code may have a link at the menu or at the homepage.
If people are that interesting in buying something they will go check the classifieds and not rely on spy.
And more bumping would only make it harder to stay on the first page of the classifieds, much less near the top of the first page :D
That is why I suggested the FIFO sorting also, within the classifieds.
That just seems to complicate things, I always stick with K.I.S.S.
What's that? I hope I am not biting the bait. :(
keep it simple stupid :D
Not calling you stupid, it is just a saying I thought everyone knew that....I must be getting old.
Well that's my point. To develop a simple "click a link" automated way to get the rotary ads search. And yeah, I think you are getting older ;) .
I think the 24hr rule on bump could be reconsider. I know is needed to avoid to get the board filled with ads, however exposure is required for the things to sale. You should consider that during normal hours the posts in the spy on latest forum posts may last a few minutes, maybe around fifteen, but during peak hours the posts last under 5 minutes. That means 24hr bump equals only a few minutes of exposure. I suggest a shorter term for bumping. Maybe each 12 hr.
Other option may be to add some code to make a rotation of classified adds at certain time, let say each 12 hours, to allow the active posters to gain exposure for the interested parties that check the classifieds. The option with this code may have a link at the menu or at the homepage.
If people are that interesting in buying something they will go check the classifieds and not rely on spy.
And more bumping would only make it harder to stay on the first page of the classifieds, much less near the top of the first page :D
That is why I suggested the FIFO sorting also, within the classifieds.
That just seems to complicate things, I always stick with K.I.S.S.
What's that? I hope I am not biting the bait. :(
keep it simple stupid :D
Not calling you stupid, it is just a saying I thought everyone knew that....I must be getting old.
Well that's my point. To develop a simple "click a link" automated way to get the rotary ads search. And yeah, I think you are getting older ;) .
What's wrong with going to classifieds sub-forum and browsing he thread titles.....it doesn't get any easier than that.
I guess I don't understand the benefit of what you are talking about wanting to do.
One of the goals of the new system is to have cleaner, more organized Classifieds, such that it's easier to scan and won't be a problem to look beyond the first page. Right now, it's just a random spam-fest where everyone just wants to be on page 1 all the time, but there's nothing wrong with looking beyond page 1 if the titles are up-to-date and posts are easy to read and information is current. There's no need to bump more often than once a day.
To clean up the classifieds sub-forum, an easy idea would be to maintain it like the vendor forum, with child boards for WTS, WTB, WTT etc... This will allow people with certain motivations to avoid sifting through thread titles to find what they want. If I'm looking to only see what people are selling, I can go to the one child board for WTS, and avoid threads of people looking for things or desiring trades.
A potential downside is one user having to maintain several threads instead of one, but I feel the user experience for other members and cleanliness of this method outweighs that downside.
My other main irk with the classifieds sub-forum relates to utilizing old threads for new items. You end up with multi-page threads with content unrelated to the subsequent new items that people have added to their thread. Rather than deleting the threads, I have to read the update dates, as well as sift through posts to see when the most current questions/answers begin. Some of the time, as mentioned previously in this thread, you have old sell threads bumped for strictly discussion that can take place in other areas.
A way to avoid such an instance is to cap time a thread can stay open. Let's say all classified threads have a 30-day limit, then they're deleted. If you don't sell all your items, or have new ones to add after the time period, you must re-list; not unlike some websites for classifieds or eBay.
that is a freaking fantastic idea. i demand awesome little pngs for those icons though. lastpilot? krog? anyone want to try their hand at designing some cool little icons?
Only list for sale or trade items that are already in your possession. Include clear photographs of your items (in good light -- no blurry night-time “potato shots”) along with your Geekhack.org user name and the date the photograph was taken. (Example)
Do we need to put GeekHack on the sticky note?
lololol
Do we need to put GeekHack on the sticky note?
Just write what you call it on reddit all the time 'GeekWhack'
Do we need to put GeekHack on the sticky note?
Just write what you call it on reddit all the time 'GeekWhack'
Do we need to put GeekHack on the sticky note?
Just write what you call it on reddit all the time 'GeekWhack'
so the fact that these rules are in effect and yet 90% of the threads in classified still don't adhere to them, can we just remove the rules? lol
so the fact that these rules are in effect and yet 90% of the threads in classified still don't adhere to them, can we just remove the rules? lol
Or maybe start reporting the posts so the mods can take action? Mods aren't omniscient...
Do we need to put GeekHack on the sticky note?
Just write what you call it on reddit all the time 'GeekWhack'
Just write what you call it on reddit all the time 'GeekWhack'
Just write what you call it on reddit all the time 'GeekWhack'
Harsh tokes...
I'm assuming a witty response will get posted at /r/ripster.
Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?
I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.
All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.
The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.
Is this sort of thing going to be enforced? or encouraged? Or it is just a recommendation?
Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?
I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.
All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.
The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.
Is this sort of thing going to be enforced? or encouraged? Or it is just a recommendation?
Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?
I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.
All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.
The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.
Is this sort of thing going to be enforced? or encouraged? Or it is just a recommendation?
We can't control it, so the rules don't explicitly state it. We can say "don't delete any content, just cross out what's been sold and lock your thread once it's finished", but then some people still will, and we can't restore deleted information. Some people are attached to very long-standing threads, and it appears to be an individual preference. Nothing's changed in that respect. Those who like long threads keep them long, and those who just sell and forget still do that.
Pacifist: that is not true and is not written anywhere.
I don't remember that exactly anymore, but I think it had more to do with you reposting a new thread every couple days for a while, relisting some of the same items that were listed in your older (but still very recent) threads. That's a different situation.
Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?
I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.
All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.
The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.
Is this sort of thing going to be enforced? or encouraged? Or it is just a recommendation?
We can't control it, so the rules don't explicitly state it. We can say "don't delete any content, just cross out what's been sold and lock your thread once it's finished", but then some people still will, and we can't restore deleted information. Some people are attached to very long-standing threads, and it appears to be an individual preference. Nothing's changed in that respect. Those who like long threads keep them long, and those who just sell and forget still do that.
Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?
I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.
All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.
The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.
Is this sort of thing going to be enforced? or encouraged? Or it is just a recommendation?
We can't control it, so the rules don't explicitly state it. We can say "don't delete any content, just cross out what's been sold and lock your thread once it's finished", but then some people still will, and we can't restore deleted information. Some people are attached to very long-standing threads, and it appears to be an individual preference. Nothing's changed in that respect. Those who like long threads keep them long, and those who just sell and forget still do that.
Fair enough. I was just confused reading the apparent "WTS keycap" thread and all the posts were about trading hardware.
Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?
I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.
All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.
The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.
Is this sort of thing going to be enforced? or encouraged? Or it is just a recommendation?
We can't control it, so the rules don't explicitly state it. We can say "don't delete any content, just cross out what's been sold and lock your thread once it's finished", but then some people still will, and we can't restore deleted information. Some people are attached to very long-standing threads, and it appears to be an individual preference. Nothing's changed in that respect. Those who like long threads keep them long, and those who just sell and forget still do that.
Fair enough. I was just confused reading the apparent "WTS keycap" thread and all the posts were about trading hardware.
All the information about the actual sale/trade stuff is supposed to be in the very fist post, with a thread title to reflect that information. If you see that the thread titles are not up-to-date, or that the first posts are not up-to-date and people are trying to add stuff on page 10, feel free to report those threads to our attention.
Close old threads once the transactions are complete (i.e., payment has been made and the item(s) have been shipped and received).
If you have multiple items to buy or sell simultaneously, one unified thread is highly encouraged
The rules are made to regulate the average sales. There will be deviations from the norm, some extreme. The extreme deviations are by definition very uncommon. They will get evaluated individually. If you just want to argue semantics, I'm sure you could find a hypothetical loophole for every rule, which is just an intellectual exercise, and in practice we'll just do what seems most logical and correct for that situation.
The rules are made to regulate the average sales. There will be deviations from the norm, some extreme. The extreme deviations are by definition very uncommon. They will get evaluated individually. If you just want to argue semantics, I'm sure you could find a hypothetical loophole for every rule, which is just an intellectual exercise, and in practice we'll just do what seems most logical and correct for that situation.
Fair enough. But the rules should apply to all people using the classifieds subforum, and having individual evaluations with case by case rules is counterintuitive to having these general rules. Individual evaluations definitely should happen, but the mods should decide what to do based upon rules that are already set in stone and publicly known to everybody.
The rules are made to regulate the average sales. There will be deviations from the norm, some extreme. The extreme deviations are by definition very uncommon. They will get evaluated individually. If you just want to argue semantics, I'm sure you could find a hypothetical loophole for every rule, which is just an intellectual exercise, and in practice we'll just do what seems most logical and correct for that situation.
Fair enough. But the rules should apply to all people using the classifieds subforum, and having individual evaluations with case by case rules is counterintuitive to having these general rules. Individual evaluations definitely should happen, but the mods should decide what to do based upon rules that are already set in stone and publicly known to everybody.
That's what we try to do already. I was just insinuating that to have a rule for every situation, we'd be adding amendments and clauses and clarifications all day long for every guideline on the list. But it's not a programming code with automated moderation, so all we need is common sense guidelines.
all we need is common sense
We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily
We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily
There are some that were grandfathered in since they're unchanged (from my understanding). Others are getting reprimands from Photoelectric. Regardless, it's a lot of work to keep the older threads straight, especially if people don't report them.
We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily
There are some that were grandfathered in since they're unchanged (from my understanding). Others are getting reprimands from Photoelectric. Regardless, it's a lot of work to keep the older threads straight, especially if people don't report them.
But if the mods instituted some kind of time out where they lock the thread until the seller updates the photos, that would prevent those who just sit there and instead of taking photos bump their thread
We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily
We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily
I'm sorry but what is your problem, exactly? Geekhack was here long before either of us and it functioned perfectly fine without that rule. Why do you care so much? Do you think they are trying to scam you? If you don't like their posts, then don't buy from them. There was a time when the only rule here was CAVEAT EMPTOR, and the mods will still quote that back to you if something goes wrong.
We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily
There are some that were grandfathered in since they're unchanged (from my understanding). Others are getting reprimands from Photoelectric. Regardless, it's a lot of work to keep the older threads straight, especially if people don't report them.
But if the mods instituted some kind of time out where they lock the thread until the seller updates the photos, that would prevent those who just sit there and instead of taking photos bump their thread
Well they could do like most places and automatically delete threads without warning if they don't follow the rules.
We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily
I'm sorry but what is your problem, exactly? Geekhack was here long before either of us and it functioned perfectly fine without that rule. Why do you care so much? Do you think they are trying to scam you? If you don't like their posts, then don't buy from them. There was a time when the only rule here was CAVEAT EMPTOR, and the mods will still quote that back to you if something goes wrong.
To the moderators: what problem are you trying to solve, exactly? I don't know of a single occurrence of a Geekhack member being scammed that could have been prevented with a verification shot. There was no epidemic of misleading photos on the classifieds. Everyone was pretty honest about the things they were selling. They still are. So why make a new rule and start harassing everyone about it? You're like Congress, making new rules for the sake making new rules.
On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?
I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up pages of them. Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?
On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?
I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up pages of them. Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?
I would guess they don't want people cheating the system.
Include clear photographs of your items (in good light -- no blurry night-time “potato shots”) along with your Geekhack.org user name and the date the photograph was taken.
On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?
I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up pages of them. Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?
I would guess they don't want people cheating the system.
What do you mean by cheating the system?
On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?
I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up pages of them. Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?
I would guess they don't want people cheating the system.
What do you mean by cheating the system?
Before you could just delete your last post then repost therefore bypassing 24hr bumps.
On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?
I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up pages of them. Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?
I would guess they don't want people cheating the system.
What do you mean by cheating the system?
Before you could just delete your last post then repost therefore bypassing 24hr bumps.
Yeah, but wouldn't the mods be able to see if someone was doing that?
actually, we can't. that data is not logged.On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?
I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up pages of them. Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?
I would guess they don't want people cheating the system.
What do you mean by cheating the system?
Before you could just delete your last post then repost therefore bypassing 24hr bumps.
Yeah, but wouldn't the mods be able to see if someone was doing that?
So can we not reuse old threads? We have to close them and start new ones??in theory, as long as you consistently follow the guidelines, reusing old threads is fine. however, what we see with megathreads is that people wipe out old information quickly, do not keep everything in sync, and some posters have been downright nasty and insulting to staffmembers when contacted about it. that latter part is not acceptable in any way shape or form.
So can we not reuse old threads? We have to close them and start new ones??in theory, as long as you consistently follow the guidelines, reusing old threads is fine. however, what we see with megathreads is that people wipe out old information quickly, do not keep everything in sync, and some posters have been downright nasty and insulting to staffmembers when contacted about it. that latter part is not acceptable in any way shape or form.
we are discussing whether to allow reusing old threads or not just based on mod team's ability to enforce the rules within their the envelope of their time and attention.
Have the terms of service for the site as a whole changed? Or are the rules just for the lowliest of us, and the moderating staff mute/ban who they want without any reason?
I have tried posting to the classifieds three times now, and it still is not showing up! :'(
I have tried posting to the classifieds three times now, and it still is not showing up! :'(
I have tried posting to the classifieds three times now, and it still is not showing up! :'(
I have tried posting to the classifieds three times now, and it still is not showing up! :'(
Your post is not there to approve. Are you sure it went through? Try posting it without images, then if it goes through, edit and add your images. Your attachments might be too large.
I have tried posting to the classifieds three times now, and it still is not showing up! :'(
Your post is not there to approve. Are you sure it went through? Try posting it without images, then if it goes through, edit and add your images. Your attachments might be too large.
Wouldn't that negate the entire purpose of having to have it approved?
Would it be acceptable for me to just add them as imgur links? I realize now that they are too large for the in post picture viewerI have tried posting to the classifieds three times now, and it still is not showing up! :'(
Your post is not there to approve. Are you sure it went through? Try posting it without images, then if it goes through, edit and add your images. Your attachments might be too large.
Wouldn't that negate the entire purpose of having to have it approved?
? You can post end edit your own post--that's before the approval stage.
I have tried posting to the classifieds three times now, and it still is not showing up! :'(
Your post is not there to approve. Are you sure it went through? Try posting it without images, then if it goes through, edit and add your images. Your attachments might be too large.
Wouldn't that negate the entire purpose of having to have it approved?
? You can post end edit your own post--that's before the approval stage.
Would it be acceptable for me to just add them as imgur links? I realize now that they are too large for the in post picture viewer
[img width=500]link.jpg[/img] [img][/img] Maybe we should do a sub forum for clacks. I swear every other thread is "[WTB] MX clacks"
Maybe we should do a sub forum for clacks. I swear every other thread is "[WTB] MX clacks"
Don't forget brobots,bingecaps, gasmasks , nubbinator cap, kbk caps, dogy caps, hammer caps and now we even have pacifist caps, if I left anyone out I'm sorry but there are a ton of cap makers here now.
You would almost have to have a novelty cap subforum then people would want a key cap set subforum, keyboard subforum, cable subforum, etc, etc...where does it stop! ;)
A simpler division would be one WTS subforum, one WTB, and one WTT.
A simpler division would be one WTS subforum, one WTB, and one WTT.Thats a pretty good idea IMHO. Would make it way easier to navigate.
A simpler division would be one WTS subforum, one WTB, and one WTT.
My earlier idea that was crapped on. I still support this idea; would make going to classifieds far better than clicking the two or three WTS threads on the first page.
And much easier to ignore all those WTT and WTB threads that no one reads, anyway, right?
A simpler division would be one WTS subforum, one WTB, and one WTT.
My earlier idea that was crapped on. I still support this idea; would make going to classifieds far better than clicking the two or three WTS threads on the first page.
And much easier to ignore all those WTT and WTB threads that no one reads, anyway, right?
This x1000000, please separate WTS with WTB/WTTMaybe we should do a sub forum for clacks. I swear every other thread is "[WTB] MX clacks"
Don't forget brobots,bingecaps, gasmasks , nubbinator cap, kbk caps, dogy caps, hammer caps and now we even have pacifist caps, if I left anyone out I'm sorry but there are a ton of cap makers here now.
You would almost have to have a novelty cap subforum then people would want a key cap set subforum, keyboard subforum, cable subforum, etc, etc...where does it stop! ;)
A simpler division would be one WTS subforum, one WTB, and one WTT.
I kind of agree, I have seen numerous threads where it seems the person purposely makes the title misleading to get you to click on it.Yeah, I've seen quite a few of these.
For example, something like this.
[WTS/WTB Clacks, Dolch, KMAC]
and when you click on their thread, the OP reads
WTB: Clacks, Dolch, KMAC
WTS: Nothing right now
This should now be implemented as intended (changed from 60 posts only).
- Creating sale / trade threads in the Classifieds subforum is limited to Geekhack.org users who have been members of the forum for at least 2 months and have 25 or higher post count.
Do not create more than two active Classifieds threads at any one time.
It has come to the attention of the moderating staff that you currently have two (or more) Classifieds threads which seems to violate the new rules for Classifieds. (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54667.0) Please review the rules and your threads. If you agree that your threads violate the new rules, please consolidate them and lock the rest. If you disagree, please contact me via PM to state your case. Thank you, and have a good day.
Also, you could use some anchors in that thread to point out the specific rule being broken (talk to CPTBadAss if you don't know how, or Google). Coming into someone's thread and just throwing yourself around is a bit rude. Do moderators even review the case at hand before speaking?
Discussion in sale threads
All discussion in the Classifieds threads should be limited to direct questions regarding items for sale/trade, shipping & handling inquiries, or relevant polite and constructive comments about sellers (such as if you suspect a dishonest seller) and prices, and corresponding answers.
Coming into someone's thread and just throwing yourself around is a bit rude.
Coming into someone's thread and just throwing yourself around is a bit rude.
Practice what you preach and maybe your words will warrant merit.
Isn't moderation supposed to be impartial and unbiased?
This should now be implemented as intended (changed from 60 posts only).
- Creating sale / trade threads in the Classifieds subforum is limited to Geekhack.org users who have been members of the forum for at least 2 months and have 25 or higher post count.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/well_done_sir.gif)Isn't moderation supposed to be impartial and unbiased?
Ideally, shouldn't everything be impartial and unbiased?
So when we post a new classifieds thread should we be able to see it as pending?? I just tried posting one and I'm not even seeing it as pending or anything.
So when we post a new classifieds thread should we be able to see it as pending?? I just tried posting one and I'm not even seeing it as pending or anything.
I don't think your post went through. Could you try re-posting? If it's got large images that you're trying to attach at the same time, try posting without the image file attachments and then going back and editing to add them. There seems to be a bug when making a post with images over a certain (relatively small) size.
Just out of curiousity, is there a recommended way to remove photos from an ad? I usually post 4-5 pictures per item, and once it's sold I use the Hide Content button to smallify everything before moving the item description text block to a Sold section. But all of the pictures are still there, and when I add more photos the list is pretty huge.
I've had some bad experiences in the past when I tried to remove photos; sometimes it scrambled the order of pictures in the ad, so I had to cut and paste a lot; other times it resulted in a series of little images at the bottom of my post. If I select the (Clear Attachment) button, will the rest of the sale thread stay unmolested? Or does that re-order the numbers assigned to images as well?
Just out of curiousity, is there a recommended way to remove photos from an ad? I usually post 4-5 pictures per item, and once it's sold I use the Hide Content button to smallify everything before moving the item description text block to a Sold section. But all of the pictures are still there, and when I add more photos the list is pretty huge.
I've had some bad experiences in the past when I tried to remove photos; sometimes it scrambled the order of pictures in the ad, so I had to cut and paste a lot; other times it resulted in a series of little images at the bottom of my post. If I select the (Clear Attachment) button, will the rest of the sale thread stay unmolested? Or does that re-order the numbers assigned to images as well?
You can unselect the check box next to the photos you no longer need just be careful as to witch ones you remove and remove the link to it in the add itself.
(Attachment Link)
Isn't moderation supposed to be impartial and unbiased?
Ideally, shouldn't everything be impartial and unbiased?
Use imgur for image hosting...
Deleting an image does change the numbers of the pictures. But the text indicating which picture in your post doesn't change accordingly, so you have to run through and change them all.
Deleting an image does change the numbers of the pictures. But the text indicating which picture in your post doesn't change accordingly, so you have to run through and change them all.
Yeah with as many as he has that could be a real PIA....
You should just close it now and start a fresh one anyway. No need to make people load a hundred pictures to see one or two.
Yes and no. When you look in those threads, you only look at the most recent page. And there's a lot of chatter in there, not every post is pictures. So there aren't that many pictures on one page. Whereas a sale thread, you have to look at the first page every time to see what's changed.
- Thread Titles: Keep your thread titles up-to-date, modifying them as soon as any changes occur, whether you have sold an item in your listing or changed your mind on something you are looking to buy. Your thread title must reflect current information precisely.
Is the Moderation Team finding the Classifieds approval process to be effective in the fight against inappropriate posts in the Classifieds?
I don't want to turn this into an argument but it's kind of annoying from my perspective. If it helps you guys out then I'm all for keeping it, it just seems like it would create more overhead approving each thread opposed to deleting the inappropriate thread topic.
It's the whole everyone else suffers because a few trolls messed it up for the good peeps imo.
Is the Moderation Team finding the Classifieds approval process to be effective in the fight against inappropriate posts in the Classifieds?
I don't want to turn this into an argument but it's kind of annoying from my perspective. If it helps you guys out then I'm all for keeping it, it just seems like it would create more overhead approving each thread opposed to deleting the inappropriate thread topic.
It's the whole everyone else suffers because a few trolls messed it up for the good peeps imo.
I don't think there is much difference in effort between;
1. Reading a post, finding it inappropriate and then deleting it
versus
2. Reading a post to approve it, then pressing the approve button
:P
wat.
I don't think it's about the difference in effort. It's about making sure crap-posts never see the light of day.
Deleting a post means it got to exist in the first place. Rejecting it means no one but the mods have to lose braincells dealing with it.
wat.
I don't think it's about the difference in effort. It's about making sure crap-posts never see the light of day.
Deleting a post means it got to exist in the first place. Rejecting it means no one but the mods have to lose braincells dealing with it.
I mean no beef, I just hate seeing ****posts.
No pics, "not sure if I want to sell this or how much this is worth", taken with a potato, etc.
Verification photos and a real price on WTS threads are a pretty nice standard to aspire to.
No pics, "not sure if I want to sell this or how much this is worth", taken with a potato, etc.
Verification photos and a real price on WTS threads are a pretty nice standard to aspire to.
I think that's a great requirement, I'm all for it.
All I'm talking about is the approval process. If the post doesn't meet the requirements maybe the Mods can just delete it. This way people will be more conscious about what they're posting and at the same time the people who do follow the rules remain unaffected.
We landed on requiring approval because deleting threads is too draconian and PMing people was a huge hassle and a timesuck, and was allowing the bad posts to remain up in the meantime. I believe this happened before we had the ability to unapprove threads. Might be worth revisiting now that we have that feature.
No pics, "not sure if I want to sell this or how much this is worth", taken with a potato, etc.
Verification photos and a real price on WTS threads are a pretty nice standard to aspire to.
No pics, "not sure if I want to sell this or how much this is worth", taken with a potato, etc.
Verification photos and a real price on WTS threads are a pretty nice standard to aspire to.
i only have a potato to take pics though =(
No pics, "not sure if I want to sell this or how much this is worth", taken with a potato, etc.
Verification photos and a real price on WTS threads are a pretty nice standard to aspire to.
i only have a potato to take pics though =(
Even "potatoes" can take reasonable photographs in good light and with some thoughtful composition. Unless you are holding a greasy fried potato in your hand and trying to take a photograph with that.
What is your guys stance on listing a price, and then asking for an OBO, with the sale expiring on a certain day?
Wouldn't that just be an auction?
What is your guys stance on listing a price, and then asking for an OBO, with the sale expiring on a certain day?
Wouldn't that just be an auction?
Ebay BINs expire
What is your guys stance on listing a price, and then asking for an OBO, with the sale expiring on a certain day?
Wouldn't that just be an auction?
This isn't eBay.
What is your guys stance on listing a price, and then asking for an OBO, with the sale expiring on a certain day?
Wouldn't that just be an auction?
What is your guys stance on listing a price, and then asking for an OBO, with the sale expiring on a certain day?
Wouldn't that just be an auction?
Ebay BINs expire
This isn't eBay.
What is your guys stance on listing a price, and then asking for an OBO, with the sale expiring on a certain day?
Wouldn't that just be an auction?
Ebay BINs expire
This isn't eBay.
eBay is also an auction site... :rolleyes:
What is your guys stance on listing a price, and then asking for an OBO, with the sale expiring on a certain day?
Wouldn't that just be an auction?
Ebay BINs expire
This isn't eBay.
eBay is also an auction site... :rolleyes:
Ebay has BINs and Auctions. When you don't select auction and instead select BIN, you can still set a end date
What is your guys stance on listing a price, and then asking for an OBO, with the sale expiring on a certain day?
Wouldn't that just be an auction?
Ebay BINs expire
This isn't eBay.
eBay is also an auction site... :rolleyes:
Ebay has BINs and Auctions. When you don't select auction and instead select BIN, you can still set a end date
Ebay has BINs and Auctions. When you don't select auction and instead select BIN, you can still set a end date
So go.
Welp. Glad these new rules are working out...
Welp. Glad these new rules are working out...
I think they are stressing the mods out entirely too much.
Welp. Glad these new rules are working out...
I think they are stressing the mods out entirely too much.
We definitely needed these new rules
I can understand these rules but the 25 posts limit for buyers is a bit dumb, IMHO. I'm a long time lurker, I want to buy something but don't have the 25 posts. Why should I be prevented from posting a buy thread? The "risk" is on my side, not the seller's.
You guys really need to do something about bump spams in the classified, most other forums I go have some forum of rules regarding to bump one's ad in the classified. Such as one bump every three days, and every three bumps much be followed by the price reduction, to ensure the liquidity of the market.
Look at this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62920.30), it's absolutely ridiculous have an not interesting same ad constantly pop up at the first page, ruins the experience for the buyers browsing through the classified.
Bumping
Do not bump your own Classifieds threads until at least 24 hours have passed from the time of the latest post. Any bumps made before the 24 hour window are subject to removal. You should not bump other members’ Classifieds posts via explicit bumps or friendly chatter, and such posts are subject to removal.
obviously too short.
obviously too short.
pretty much on par with most forums tbh with the 24 hour rule.
I haven't seen a forum that mandates price drops for bumps.
you could ignore the thread though in your settings i believe.